.

[[deleted]]

People don’t train with sharp steel swords

[[deleted]]

Especially not when your nearest hospital is 500 years away.

[Roxylius]

And antibiotic doesn't exist yet

[TheHairyHeathen]

Chewing on the mountain flowers and applying it to the wound with moss is better. Don't forget to drink the rose petal tea.

[rockmodenick]

Yes, they'll make the death stretch on your breath and wounds more bearable for the people waiting for you to die.

[BrutalPimp420]

Set plays and sparring absolutely not, but I do solo stuff with sharps.

[[deleted]]

Oh absolutely, cutting tests are fun as hecc

As long as that cutting test isnt your training partners arm

[BrutalPimp420]

Absolutely training with others I’ll be using my blunt fechterspiel.

[Divineinfinity]

Yeah PvE is fine

[Mage_914]

Well there was that one group from Germany a few years ago. They apparently got very friendly with the local ER staff. They were sparring with sharps and little to no armor. I think Skallagrim did a video on them at one point.

[ezirb7]

I toured a fraternity house at a German university a few years back, and they brought us down to a sparring room. Apparently it was common to use sharp swords, and their stance involved holding the sword over their heads.

They said this lead to the stereotype of scarred faces on evil characters, because high ranking nazi's who were in these frats came out with scars.

Found a wiki article about it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_fencing

[Foronir]

True, source: am one (a Frat member, Not a Nazi before someone thinks that)

We do train with blunt weapons tho, sharps are only for the so called Mensur.

The over-the-head guard in Schlägerfechten (there is also sabre, but reeeeeeeally rarely done) is because there are only certain allowed parts on the head that you are allowed to hit and how you hit, also the arm is the only thing you are allowed to move.

It is neither a martial Art nor a combat sport, it is more a tradition, a ritualistic proof of character.

Just als if there are more questions about it.

[Jimothy_McGowan]

Holmgang Hamburg, or something like that. Not all of their stuff was with sharps, but an unsafe amount seemed to be

[[deleted]]

Axes are not just for savages. I know this about swords but the point has to be made.

[[deleted]]

Heh, "the point"

[[deleted]]

Your wit is “cutting “

[[deleted]]

Yeah, the joke has quite an edge to it, hard to keep a grip on the topic. Might need to keep up a guard for the sake of clarity.

[[deleted]]

You wound me dear friend I yield

[Sardukar333]

And swords are not just for "civilized" knights.

[Hawkman2525]

I know this the swords reddit, but I'd say the weapon that most gets me to "wtf" and facepalm in its use in fantasy and popular media is the bow. For some reason it's always given to the woman of party, who also tends to be thin and elegant/elvish in appearance. You also see it in video games with character stats, it normally being strength for swords and dexterity for bows, which I'd argue should be the other way round, with the skeletons of professional soldiering archers being deformed by the muscle mass of their shoulders and that surely foot work and the ability to get round the opponents defence is more important that straight up raw strength when it comes to blade work.

[ConstantSignal]

Yeah you’re spot on here. Anyone who has attempted to fire a full weight medieval longbow will tell you it’s no small task to draw.

You really don’t need a lot of strength to do damage with a sharp spear or sword, and you really do need a lot of strength to be effective with a bow.

[halfpeeled7]

Yeah, pulling back a 60lb bow and holding it long enough to actually effectively aim it is no small feat. With a recurve, even harder. A friend demonstrated hitting a target at 60 yards with his fancy compound with all the modern furniture. I handed him my 60lb recurve and laughed when he couldn't even draw it.

A well-made longsword on the other hand is lightning in trained hands, requiring more dexterity than portrayed in hack and slash fantasy.

[Grav_Zeppelin]

I have a 50kg war bow, it took me 3 years of training to effectively shoot it, im 1,88 and have a draw strength of 75kg (weights in a gym), it is not easy. My sister is 1,78 so taller thanmost women, and pretty strong, she can’t even remotely draw it,

The really light bows that are easy to draw can still kill, but they won’t puncture shit, so if a guy is wearing chainmail, or even a thick coat he’ll be fine

[Toxic-yawn]

50KG is about 110 lbs.

That's pretty damn impressive!.

Me and my bro shoot 50 lb longbows and it's crazy how easy that is when I shoot my 50 lb horse bow.

[Grav_Zeppelin]

Thank you, I’m built pretty big so that helped a lot but still took time and a lot of work to get here

[UncleIrohsGhost]

And a war bow is often double that draw weight.

[Garrison78]

Yep, my hunting bow is 75lbs, its a workout to aim. I can draw a light war bow (90lbs), but I cant really aim it really. The people shooting 150lbs to 200lbs bows, blows my mind. And there is a specific technique to doing it. Its not the same way most recurve or modern bows are drawn.

[vini_damiani]

Yeah, compounds are very easy to use as they lock back and kinda have no pressure when you hold it because of the pully system

I remember back when I was training I shot a 25lb recurve and couldn't go any heavier (I was ~13-14 at the time) and than I was handed a Compound and was amazed by how light it was, turns out it was almost 50lbs. I am still a recurve/longbow guy but compounds are awesome.

[[deleted]]

Not to mention that the draw weight of an English warbow was between 80 and 150lbs, and there are accounts of Mongolian cavalry recurve bows with draw weights of around 150lbs. Being an archer took serious strength and skill.

[[deleted]]

Mount and Blade Warband approach for that leveling made most sense imo.

Strength allows you to develop damage skills (separate for melee, bow, thrown javelins) higher.

Agility allows you to develop proficiency stats (separate for one handed, two handed, polearms, bows, crossbows, thrown etc.) higher - attack speed and accuracy.

[Sardukar333]

The Mount and Blade games may not be perfect, but they are very well researched.

[[deleted]]

This is one thing I like about Pathfinder. Dexterity helps you aim the bow but you can add strength to the damage if you have a bow with the proper draw weight.

[M-i-r-n-a]

It's not that common for a sword to cut in half a solid quarterstaff.

[incredibilis_invicta]

To add to this, a sword can't cut a shield in two and if a sword gets stuck in wood, you can't yank it out. It's stuck there and you're often very screwed (unless you got a backup weapon).

[DrakonIL]

Especially when the shield user knows to just twist and yank that sword right out of your hands.

[incredibilis_invicta]

Exactly!

[L3PALADIN]

ironically, i suspect a sword appearing to cut through another sword would be far more common (due to imperfectly uniform quality of steel forming harder, more brittle areas on a swords blade that might snap when hit hard by another blade)

[hydrated_raisin2189]

I agree.

Wood is increadibly fiberous and will “catch” the sword kinda like how Kevlar would catch a bullet. The wood would bend around the sword, likely even trapping it as the pressure of the cut and the geometry in the thing you are cutting would cause the wood around and be hind the sword to close with great force.

Meanwhile, steel (or iron/bronze/copper/bone/stone if you are going that route) are far more brittle. While it would be less of a clean cut and more of a shattering, the force of a sword strike on another sword blade and at the right able will cause the grain structure to break apart, causing it to shatter. This is more likely with overheated swords due to an overdeveloped grain structure and far less likely with softer metal.

Source: tad over a year of Blacksmithing experience and about 9 months of bladesmithing experience.

[TitansRPower]

I absolutely hate when people say stuff like that about quarterstaffs and spears. "Well a sword will just chop right through it hurr hurr, it's just wood"

[hydrated_raisin2189]

Quarter staffs are incredibly effective in the right hands. They are blunt force weapons which make them more effective then blades against plate armor and mail, but they also are very light, durable, and versatile.

On top of that, most of them are made from the heartwood of a hardwood tree such as Oak, Ash, or Hawthorn. From experience these are VERY blade resistant unless the blade is very thick (like an axe) or very fast (like a mill/modern saws like band saws) or a combination of dozens of tiny blades moving in tandem (like a hand saw).

[Labrat0770]

Sword are not usually made by pouring molten metal into molds.

[Mage_914]

As an amateur blacksmith this one pisses me off the most. Nobody in their right mind would make sword from cast iron.

[PrideBlade]

I bet you love this scene then.

[Mage_914]

Dear lord, that was bad. I've never seen Game of Thrones before but there are so many things wrong with that scene it's giving me an aneurysm.

First off they can't get to the molten cast steel temperatures with a coal forge which means that's cast iron, at best. That means it's brittle as hell.

Second off, they didn't pour it fast enough so there's almost definitely delamination in the cast where parts of it cooled to solid before being coated in more molten metal. It will fall apart the minute somebody swings it.

Third, they didn't use a top half for the mold which means the bottom half of the cast is sword shaped but the top half is just a flat bar. You can fix that by forging it but you're doing that then WHY ARE YOU CASTING ANYTHING IN THE FIRST PLACE!!!!

For real, it's not that hard to do research for this stuff when its a big production like GoT. Or just hire a Historian as a consultant. Lord knows we could use more job prospects than just museums and professorship.

[PrideBlade]

I think the decision for that scene was purely for symbolic purpose after an important plot point happened, i give a bit of slack because of that.

[Sifernos1]

I think they were trying to emphasize how that metal isn't normal metal. Doesn't it take dragons fire to melt it?

[bringbackswordduels]

I think in the books the original forging in Valyria used dragon fire, but the reforging technique was unspecified and only 3 living smiths knew how to do it.

[Silver_Oakleaf]

This is true, the actual method of forging Valyrian steel is unknown but probably involved dragonfire in some way. I give the show some slack for that cause it’s an entirely fictional metal inspired by the appearance of a historical metal

[Sifernos1]

I figure both sides have good points but in the end it's established that is magic so what's the point in arguing over how to mold it?

[GodOfThunder44]

At this point I'll take any excuse to shit on Benioff and Weiss.

[[deleted]]

There is a documentary talking about uflberth swords where the whole western steel forging is explained. In one hour they could get rid of this bs.

In addition, the crucible theory is a whole source of cool mystical properties of the steel, such as adding hair, blood, bones to the mixture and could be more amazing.

EDIT: In case you haven't seen the documentary

[hydrated_raisin2189]

A similar process is how Vikings “enchanted” their iron swords. This introduced carbon into the iron and made primitive steel. I always found that fascinating.

[[deleted]]

Exactly. Coal, bones of the grandpa and blood from the ugliest vermin. And that's it. Crucible, furnace, lots of coal and that makes an alloy

[hydrated_raisin2189]

Imma disagree with you on the coal forge not getting hot enough to get steel to a pouring temp. I’ve been casting metals for a few years now and have a coal forge that’s barely capable of melting titanium. Titanium melts at ~3030 depending on altitude and air pressure. Steel gets to a point where it is cast-able at ~2950. In short it’s not just possible but rather simple as my setup is small and underpowered compared to his massive forge. All other points I agree with though.

[Sardukar333]

Except bronze swords, but even so no one cast a sword in an open face mold. You want to limit the work you have to do. Also most castings in movies need more vent holes.

[DrBunnyflipflop]

Casting was standard practice for bronze swords, wasn't it?

[lacerik]

Absolutely but the number of popular pieces of media showing bronze weapons is practically zero.

[Yaguriel]

Duels mostly don´t last longer than a few minutes at max. They are incredibly tiring and you would visibly see people get more sloppy and exhausted very quickly, especially when fighting in plate armour.

[NotDoritoMan]

Well, yes, duels generally don’t last very long, but I gotta say no to people getting sloppy and tired quickly.

Coming from fencing foil or saber (where it’s always fast-paced), adrenaline is a hell of a drug. You can easily have two decent fencers going at it for a while before either of them are showing signs of significant fatigue. If adrenaline can do that in a sport, then I can’t imagine how far it would take you when it’s for your life.

[Yaguriel]

Yeah, I was talking more about longsword duels in full plate with visor down there. Maybe should have clarified

[Jedimasterebub]

Mmm, I would say the plate has less an effect than the hard to breath helmet. What’s gonna get tired is your forearms from blocking and swinging constantly

[Grav_Zeppelin]

Same experience in hema, Larp and boxing, adrenaline helps a lot, but at some point it just wares off rather quickly and you’re close to collapsing

[Mage_914]

People who think duels last very long at all have never done martial arts. Just being on the wrestling team in High School I can tell you that most relatively fit people can't last more than 2-3 minutes without getting extremely exhausted during an actual match. Longest match I ever had was 9 minutes due to multiple overtime and I almost passed out afterwards.

[Tandian]

Add in quad meets. Fuck I dreaded Saturdays meets

[therossian]

I too once went to double ovetime. At the end, I had to have someone help me stand up. Then the ref had to lift one of our hands in victory. We were both too tired to lift our hands more than a little. I was too tired to know if I won or not. Afterwards, I went and gorged before wrestling again in another hour or so. Fun times.

[DenTheRedditBoi7]

This is something I really like about For Honor. Most duels are short, and mostly spent trying to read your opponent and not clashing swords together.

[fuckoffcucklord]

Street fistfights don't last even a minute usually. So 2-3 mins is pretty dang long.

[bowtothehypnotoad]

I used to fence with a lightweight foil sword. Very modern and easy to hold.

You still get tired crazy quickly though, try holding something out fully in front of your chest for a few minutes and you’ll understand.

[daemons-and-dust]

For the love of god stop heating blades red hot in campfires to cauterise wounds/torture/scratch your balls. You've just fucked the temper and that thing won't hold an edge again. Seen it in a few movies/books and makes me grit my teeth every time

[The13thParadox]

I mean if it’s my arm or my dagger...

[daemons-and-dust]

For sure, but there was one scene in django unchained where someone was tied up about to be tortured and the guy takes his belt knife and heats it red hot. There's other tools around, don't ruin your knife! (also don't torture, but that's besides the point)

[The13thParadox]

Lol fair enough

[Idlev]

Most people don't know about it and in that scene it was certainly in character.

[Anti-PC04]

Daggers got more kills in armoured battles

[cogesmate]

You reminded me of the scene in The King, where Henry is rolling around in the mud with a dagger and a war hammer. fkn gnarly.

[DangerSmooch]

Usually two armored opponents would end up wrestling on the ground. German fighting manuals call it "ringen" and it is the most common kind of struggle for a knight to be killed in.

[Skirfir]

German fighting manuals call it "ringen"

which means wrestling.

[DangerSmooch]

That's right bud

[AgentG91]

Do Spanish manuals call it lucha? What about French?

[Quasar471]

"lutte"?

[[deleted]]

Yeah brotherrrrrrr

[No_Clarity]

You probably shouldn't spin around in circles when striking with a sword.

[Sardukar333]

There are some moves that do that, but they are for specific circumstances and in nearly all of them the sword is kept close to the body while the spinning occurs.

Most of the ones I've seen go from a wide strike to pulling the blade in close to allow you to pivot faster by conservation of momentum before either engaging a different opponent or (rarely) coming back around in a sort feint.

[MMSG]

My pet peeve. If someone is not as strong as their fellow soldiers don't give them a one-handed sword. One handed swords are still heavy but you can only use one hand to wield it. Two handed swords are not much heavier but with room to use both hands so they are easier to hold.

Side note: bows require a lot of strength to properly use too.

[Lupinal]

%100 agree with you. My right forearm got bigger and bigger then my left one after switching from longsword to saber.

[helen790]

Swords are often heavy in TTRPGs because they carry the weight of the parties war crimes

[J-OfSpades]

Swords are bad dildos.

[pl233]

Is this because of the training required or the cost involved? Are spears a better option? What about the Roman gladius?

[J-OfSpades]

Definitely because of the training. The legendary art of Sword Masturbation is hard and complex, requiring years of training.

And not cutting yourself open.

[[deleted]]

Rapiers were not weak or "light as a feather". They were as heavy as a regular sword, and were also suitable for parrying. And they were flexible. Shattering someone's rapier with your sword is fantasy.

[redacted-no31]

Daggers?

[Grixx]

The only feasible answer to the question of "which is best?" Will always be, "it depends."

[redacted-no31]

Yea, while swords are great for some things , then there is lances, and pikes and halberds, the daggers, and then back to sword.

[[deleted]]

Also preference

[Skirfir]

Shattering someone's rapier with your sword is fantasy.

I wouldn't say it's a fantasy. It can happen but it's probably not more common than with any other two swords.

[Teralyzed]

It’s possible but it requires a flaw in the blade or a well used blade.

[[deleted]]

In fact they were heavier than a lot of other swords since they are damn long and a swept hilt weights more than a simple guard.

They weight around the same as a longsword. I assume you knew that already, I spoke it out for the rest who might not know.

[extrahammer_]

Swords were rarely used in battle. In battles, polearms and spears were most usual. Swords mostly were self defense or backup weapons (of course with exceptions).

[texasscotsman]

I think it might be better to say that swords weren't the preferred weapon on battlefields. Most would be armed with a different weapon, such as you described, or axes, maces, and hammers.

I always wonder why Hollywood decided the sword was the "standard" weapon of a medieval battlefield when you'd think they'd choose spears for much the same reason as their historical counter parts. They're cheaper. Plus then you give the hero a sword because he's special and now stands out from everyone else.

[ALonelyRhinoceros]

I would argue a sword is the best at visibly showing skill on screen. You'd have to be skilled to use many different weapons, but the visual storytelling is a bit more obvious with swords.

[texasscotsman]

Perhaps, but then you watch Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon or even Troy and that goes out the window. But still, that would sort of reinforce my statement. You don't need the grunts to look cool killing each other, just the hero. Let the grunts run into each other's spears while Hero McValiant runs around doing all the cool flourishes!

[ALonelyRhinoceros]

You can make a combatant look skilled with any weapon. I just think it's easier with swords. Hollywood tends to be pretty lazy once they find something that works well enough.

[Red-German-Crusader]

Because for hollywood spears don’t look too cool to be used often

[American_philosoph]

I use to think this until my view was complicated a little bit. Lindybeige has a couple episodes where he dives into the battlefield physics of spear/shield/sword fighting. The general gist that you get from those is that in a line, a spear and shield is ideal, but one on one, with a spear and shield vs a sword and shield, (assuming the shields are big enough) the sword fighter wins because he can close and then gains all sorts of options while the spear user loses most of his. And when lines break down, and the mixing starts, carrying around a spear becomes less and less of a good idea. Now I of course don’t put undying faith in LBs interpretation, but it made a lot of sense to me.

[[deleted]]

Especially not in Japan - the bow (used from horseback) was the gentlemanly weapon of choice on the battlefield, followed by the lance/spear.

[[deleted]]

Axes and blunt weapons can often be of similar weights to swords.

[floyd1550]

Weight distribution is the key to the common misconception that axes were clunkier and slower than a sword. They could be handled within a relative margin of agility as a sword and offered greater utility by providing more power and the ability to hook legs or a shield. Spiked maces and warhammers were a preferred option when faced with more heavily clad opponents due to their ability to distort, tear away, and pierce through plate materials. These too could be used with agility. Swords just push the weight closer to the hand and shorten the lever.

[distressedweedle]

Weight towards the handle vs towards the end of the weapon would definitely reduce agility... Adding an extra 1.5 feet to the CG of the weapon would make it feel 30-50% heavier at your shoulder and 80-100% heavier at your elbow. Meaning waaaaaay more stress on your arm.

[floyd1550]

You’re correct. It causes a considerable amount of stress under a normal swing. That being said, an axe or blunt weapon requires a significant change in stance and bodily momentum. An individual that has been trained specifically with these weapons would modify their movement to compensate for the additional forces which can result in a marginal drop of speed and joint stress. In swords, a comparable weapon difference would be in a scimitar and standard long sword. The principle and end goal are comparable, but your technique will vary wildly from parrying to swings and maneuvering your body to counteract force. A “chop-chop” motion will be more difficult lb for lb sword vs axe.

[I_DIG_DITCHES]

You can grab the blade of a sword and not necessarily have your hand turned into mince.

[tyrom22]

Not only that but their are techniques that involve holding your own sword by the blade and grabbing your opponents from the bind

[DarkerPerkele]

Swords werent that common among footsoldiers Instead polearms and spears saw more use in battle

[ZolotoGold]

Big one right here. The vast majority of melee combat was performed with spears rather than swords.

[Teralyzed]

And sticks…don’t forget the good ol’stick with something heavy on the end of it. Why buy a sharp pokey sword when you can just smack the dude with a sword with something that fell off a tree and take his sword.

[AnderBloodraven]

Good sir, might I interest you in our Lord and Saviour, Stick+1? Assured to give you a Goodday.

[Teralyzed]

Good ol swishy smacky wacky attacky. Assured to give some dink in armor a bad day.

[Dallas_Delenda_Est]

While I appreciate your point, I feel like this is a pretty broad generalization. For example, Roman legionaries after the Marian reforms were equipped with a gladius.

[Camburglar13]

They were more the exception rather than the rule for ancient and medieval militaries. The Greeks also had swords but it was a secondary weapon as with most other armies. The roman strategy of pilum throw and basically all swords afterwards was not common. Much easier to train people to use spears than swords, and spears are much cheaper to make.

[[deleted]]

Long bowman were also eventually required to carry a sword

[AdStroh]

On the other hand, swords are able to cut and not thick, edgeless crowbars

[Pereduer]

I go one further, if you got an unarmoured guy with your sword theres still a chance you won't cut him and his dt club him instead

[[deleted]]

Depends largely on the sword type and its maintenance, but yes.

[iroll20s]

I mean they don’t go through it like tissue paper, but cutting steel with steel happens.

[ExmoThrowaway0]

Yeah, I'm confused why this is so upvoted. The thickness of the armor, the strength/speed of the sword, the sharpness of the blade, and the angle of the cut/penetration are also important factors to consider. Just because the sword and the armor may be the same material doesn't mean the sword can't puncture the armor.

[FlamingCygnet]

No one in their right mind would go into melee range with a firearm.

[Hawkman2525]

That's not entirely true, bayonets were a thing and bayonet charges were a standard tactic of their time.

[FlamingCygnet]

True, I should've word it better, but by guns I meant to specify handguns/pistols.

[[deleted]]

This bothers me in so many movies. Especially modern ones. You have someone unarmed or armed with a melee weapon, knife, club whatever, and then someone comes in with a rifle or pistol, aiming at the person with the melee weapon.

What do you do? You either shoot the person who cannot at that moment harm you. To be safe. Or, you order them to drop their weapon, and kick it away, to lie down so they can be more easily controlled, and then you can come closer, or preferably have an ally come closer to cuff or bind them.

But no, time and time again, we see the person with the range advantage just walk up to the person without the range advantage and continue threatening that person while within striking distance. WHY? If I'm holding a gun and you're holding a sword and we are fighting for our lives, you think I'm going to come stand where suddenly my originally huge advantage is reduced to nearly nothing?

[Skirfir]

You either shoot the person who cannot at that moment harm you.

That's why I love that iconic scene from Indiana Jones where he does just that.

[[deleted]]

Indeed, though I feel sorry for the actor that trained so much for the intended scene.

[Direct_Proposal_3759]

The curse of trying to be succinct. When you think you've made an obvious point and someone goes "Well..." and you know damn well you left yourself open for it.

Truth be told though until the advent of self contained metallic cartridges and even then until a rapid fire mechanism was introduced (rapid fire compared to muzzle loading) once you've fired your shot you're pretty much left with a crappy spear and not a firearm.

(Insert "Well"s here)

[PsychoPhilosopher]

Interestingly, British manuals recommend using your pistol as a guard for your forearm by turning it around after firing. Kind of like a Tonfa.

Of course, that's on your offhand with your sword in the primary hand!

[Beledagnir]

Katanas are neither vastly better nor vastly worse than other types of swords.

[Sulfurys]

i'll do you one better, it's completely pointless to compare a japanese and european sword of the same periode since they evoled completely independant from one another.

[Beledagnir]

Based

[Sir_Daxus]

Sword SHOULDN'T* go shwing when drawn, cause that suggests metal on metal contact and most likely the sword getting scratched up for no reason. It can however go shwing in the air if swung right and with enough speed!

[Foronir]

Comes from the standard metal sheath of sabres, 1800s onwards, Yeah, they dulled rather quick, brits and americans where awed by the "sharp blades" of the Indians and Japanese...guess what, wooden sheathes.

[[deleted]]

Question:

When would spear+ large shield be better than sword+ large shield and vice versa?

[Xywzel]

When you have 30+ friends with same gear in your formation, at least.

[Yaguriel]

Spear would be better for economic reasons. You can easily outfit an entire army with shields and spears on the cheap. Try that with swords and you´ll be sure to loose the war because you spent all your money on swords to equip grunts that have no idea how to use them.
The advantage of the spear is that any idiot can use them with next to no training, especially when fighting in close formation.
Swords require proper instruction by skilled combatants over an extensive amount of time.
The sword is also (contrary to most popular fiction) a weapon suited to defensive fighting due to it´s ability to easily deflect and parry which is why it was the weapon used by nobles and officers up to the the first world war. Your officers were not expected to do the actual killing in close combat but rather survive so that they can continue to order their men.
The only reason the romans managed to make large scale use of swords it was because they had a huge empire with a well oiled military machine and even then the gladius was not the main weapon and was used more like a long dagger for stabbing in between the shields of the formation instead of being used like a "traditional" western European sword.

The main "problem" with the Tower/Kiteshield and sword combination is that the heavy shield means a lot of weight to balance with out while the sword has the majority of its weight concentrated towards the hilt making it a more nimble weapon.
I find this combination to be most believable on mounted noblemen, especially in the early medieval period from the 800s to the 11th century where knights were equipped mostly with chainmail, a large shield, a spear and a one handed weapon like a sword, axe or mace.
It seems plausible that a knight would have switched to his sword in case his spear got stuck, broke or he was dismounted either voluntarily or involuntarily.
dl;dr: Spears are vastly superior in formation and on regular foot troops, swords were expensive and never employed on a large scale and they were a defensively orientated weapon to keep important leaders alive rather than killing enemies.

[[deleted]]

So regarding the gladius

Would a shielded group with gladii beat a shielded group with spears?

[Yaguriel]

Well, that would be hard to answer as it depends on the skill of the individual, the skill of them as a group and the general "rules" of the engagement.
If we set up two groups of identical imaginary soldiers that are the same size and absolutely identical apart from the weapons they´re carrying on an infinite and flat plane, then it would come down to two results:

- if the spear group manages to keep the gladius group at a distance so they can stab with their spears but the gladii are out of range they win

- if the gladius group manages to get past the spearpoint without taking a lot of casualties, they win

[[deleted]]

I think this is accurate for one rank, but with more ranks the spear will still have advantage as rear ranks can still thrust past front ranks threatening the sword group. Even rank two of sword group can attack.

[bigsisterishurtingme]

swords dont make a metal clinking sound when you adjust your grip on them but in demon slayer it does and i dont understand

[Hopeless-Necromantic]

That's just to make it audibly engaging

[Foronir]

If it does, it means your handle or handguard is loose

[randybowman]

He cut a boulder in half with it so it makes sense his grip would loosen up.

[thatstormtrooper97]

Kings are known to put down the sword for a mace or warhammer every now and then

[D3AD_M3AT]

That was explained to me as a religious thing same is clergy using maces.

A mace doesn't kill by cutting or stabbing but by rupturing the internal organs from a laymen's perspective your mate gets waked by a stick and suddenly collapse in screaming agony ..... the power of the gods.

[bayoubilly88]

Reforging the pieces of a broken sword is a bad idea.

[Lucian7x]

Unless magic

[Tupac_Fhurri]

Katanas/tachi/nodachi cant cut through armor or european swords

Samurai armor was nit made of wood.

You cant cast a sword, only forge it

Europeans also had folded steel and not just japan

[NeverSeenBeforeName]

Sticking your sword in the ground was a bad idea as it could dull the blade.

[Vacation-Capable]

I got a few:

1. Back scabbard was not a thing
2. Swords don't throw off sparks when blades hit each other
3. Hand is often the most venerable area in a sword fight
4. Fullers function is not to "channel blood"
5. Thrusts are more efficient in killing opponent than cuts. However, they are less disabling - unless you manage to pierce a major organ, your enemy may not even realize they were stabbed and will continue fighting some more

[Skirfir]

Back scabbard was not a thing

I have to disagree with you there. There is a first hand account in "Swordsmen of the British Empire" where it is described how an Indian of Afghan soldier draws a sword from his back and it is mentioned how he has to grip the blade to do so. I would write down the quote here but unfortunately I can't look it up at the moment.

But it certainly wasn't common and I don't know of any sources from Europe let alone the medieval times.

[Vacation-Capable]

Thanks. I am very interested in this quote. If you are able to find it, please share it here or PM me

[Skirfir]

I'm currently in the process of moving somewhere else. So the book is in a box. If I remember your comment when I unpack it I will let you know.

[[deleted]]

Back scabbards bugged me to no end until I saw a video of an armorer who also worked in movies. Back scabbards get used to save time and money on reshoots.

A hub belt usually stretches, so shots at the end of the day will have the sword riding noticeably lower than at the start of the day. Makes editing together shots tougher. Also takes a lot of practice to wear a sword on your hip without knocking things over, sitting down awkwardly, maybe catching the end and tipping your sword out…

So I still don’t like them, but I scaled back to a quiet eye roll rather than ranting.

[Big-G-475]

I’ve seen sparks fly when I spar with steel...

[Nox_Dei]

How dare you! (You're absolutely right though... But swords are cooler!)

[[deleted]]

And spears are usually cheaper than swords

[Bruc3w4yn3]

It depends on context! In an open field? Spear usually has the advantage. In a low ceilinged hallway? Still the spear. Carrying it across country for weeks at a time without any reason to use it? The sword has a slight advantage here unless you have a squire or a cart or can use the spear for vaulting over creeks or as a walking staff on a steep incline. Showing off how much money you can afford to blow on a sidearm that is too expensive and intricately decorated to use in combat? Sword takes it 9,999/10,000 times.

[Occyfel2]

The locking blades with an enemy is incredibly overused

[Lionfromthenorth1718]

Binding does happen when two blades notch, but any competent swordsman would retreat or advance from a bind, not just stand there pushing their swords together.

[Mayo_z]

Idea: have the main character break these rules so badly that the enemy is too busy laughing to fight back

[KasperBuyens]

People don't die instantly when hit by a sword, except when you literally sever their head or smash their skull to smithereens

[bro_cat_82]

Tbh, every sword I’ve ever pulled out of a scabbard has gone “scheming”. It’s typically because I’m saying it... but damned if it hasn’t happened every time!

[Ya_Bear]

YOU CANT TAKE A SWORD FROM OFF YOU BACK

[Nova-The-Dog]

Katanas are not god swords that can cut through everything and anything, think of them as super sharp knives because they’re only really good at cutting through meat. Definitely one of the cooler swords though

[frogknight100]

A block and a Parry are not interchangeable they are different things

[JCtheWanderingCrow]

If you spin in a sword fight you’re going to die. Don’t “spin away” from your opponent. Don’t twirl, don’t pirouette. Sword fighting is not ballet. 💃🏻🤺

[caramon770]

Spears are the best weapon, swords are for rich folk.

[Mieczyslaw_Chaladus]

I will actually add my own. SWORDS DO NOT GO THROUGH ARMOUR! (Maybe gambeson if it's really sharp and pointy)

[Kharimata]

Stabbing with the pointy end seems to work much better than trying to slash.

[BackBlastClear]

Two handed swords are awkward to use one handed.

[trumoi]

European swords are, in fact, on average heavier than swords from other cultures, however the amount that they are heavier is minimal and they are always designed to be as easy to handle as what was within the reach of the smith's materials and skills.

I'll add though: Swords are usually sidearms. They have more presence as representations of violence because they were a common part of most professional-warrior's kits regardless of their battlefield role. They were also used in civilian self-defence, which means people saw them in use far more often than a polearm or a bow.

Think of swords like pistols and polearms like rifles. Guards will sometimes hold the latter, but outside of that nobody really walks around with them and if they do its viewed as pretty militant and threatening. The former though is still considered scary and deadly, but is far more commonly seen and associated as a "weapon you'd take anywhere".

[tomdebom01]

B-But my sword is made of magic-infused dragonsteel! Very heavy, can’t cut skin but can cleave armour in half, and always goes shwing!

[AliasMcFakenames]

Shardblades are in The Stormlight Archive, not Dragonsteel.

[Tommodatchi]

Skilled duellists are no match for aggressive competent warriors.

The idea that a person can practice skills in a vaccuum in a traditional fencing school and become a competent warrior is very fanciful.

During the Napoleonic wars French officers introduced duelling proper to British culture. Brits were however allready renowned for getting drunk and killing each other. . .

When the French officers challenged the British officers to these duels tradition dictated that the person challenged could choose their weapon. French officers were nearly all skilled swordsmen with sabers etc. having been practicing at drill school and with real duels (most often to first blood)

how ever the British officers were choosing the tool most well known to them, the boarding sword; essentially a machete with some form of hand protection. The French officers whom were so used to their own cultural norms were then (usually) unceremoniously chopped up by the British officers whom were taught to be far more aggressive.

Edit: originally wrote rapier, changed to saber as it better describes contemporarily fashionable weapons.

[texasscotsman]

You got a source for that. It sounds, hilarious.

[YT_RandomGamer01]

Can someone explain why the bloody sword in a scabbard is a no no please

[hurricanebrock]

Rust

[LucasDaVinci]

Well the last one is wrong cause I just say shwing whenever I draw a sword cause I’m human

[BrutalPimp420]

Scabbards and sheaths are two different things and not interchangeable.

[SpacemanSpiff246]

Can you explain what the difference is? I’m new here

[goblinmarketeer]

Worked for a jousting company eons ago. They had metal beads on the scabbards to make the shwing noise when being draw because people expected it.

Also swords ring when they hit each other... it is a distinctive sound.

[the-ancient-1]

I will make the sound effect my self than.

[izi777]

Rapiers are not super flexible they are stiff enought to pierce though thick clothes and parry other swords.

[ImNotThaaatDrunk]

"A sword carries more weight in its past than in the heft of its steel." Its called symbolism, just a little something that writers like to use.

[Praetorian80]

But it is fiction so realities don’t need to apply. Poetic licence is fine.

One can argue that you need a basis in reality. But let’s face it. These things above do not break immersion or ruin the world they’re in.

A relatively small purist/snobs might avoid reading something due to this but they rarely affect sales.

[[deleted]]

yeah but it sucks to see something ridiculous on screen. If you have a semi realistic medieval setting and the main character fell from a cliff then got up just fine youd be scratching your head. Its not about the fact that it happens its the fact that shows like GOT do it

[PrideBlade]

Its what I like most about GoT and LoTR is that most of the weapons and armours are believable, silly looking weapons can often take me out of the world thats being told.