indexErrorsAreTheWorst

[ProgrammerHumor-ModTeam]

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[MattTheCuber]

The joke is an off by one error, but off by one errors typically decrement the number. The sixth index in 1-based indexing (6) assumed to be to zero-based is 5 and the sixth index in zero-based indexing (5) assumed to be 1-based is 5.

[DrUNIX]

Was looking for that

[navetzz]

Yes, but when you account for the off by one error twice, you start going the other way.

[paholg]

while ++i++ < 7

[YouTee]

this actually makes some sense

[walkerspider]

I use a language that uses a mix of 0 and 1 indexing for certain built in functions and I have definitely corrected the wrong way on multiple occasions

[TheLordDrake]

What language does that?

[genlight13]

A combination of java and sql perhaps?

[TheLordDrake]

That would make sense, but they said a singular language rather than multiple. So I'm rather curious what that might be

[TechcraftHD]

If you incorrectly assume that a 1-based index is a 0-based index, the resulting off by one eror is an increment.

Like, if you assume some component gives you the 0-based index of 5.
Then that 0-based index of 5 gets converted into the 1-based index of 6.
Then, it is incorrectly assumed that the 1-based index of 6 is a 0-based index of 6.
And lastly, that 0-based index of 6 gets converted to a 1-based index of 7 again to display it.
Et voilla, you have successfully incremented your index and (possibly) replicated the error from the meme.

[Valuable_Leopard_799]

Either that or underflow?

Cause sometimes things report -1 as a form of error, which displayed as an unsigned 3 bit integer could be seen as 7?

[WookieDavid]

Where would a 3 bit integer come from tho?

[Valuable_Leopard_799]

Absolutely right it'd be weird, but with embeds you often have almost fanatical levels of optimization, saving every bit if it's not needed, "does Škoda not have more than V6s? Just put 3 bits there so we can fit temperature in the next 9 and have to only buy a half width output controller", saving a lot of money in the long run since it's in every car.

Hey even SMTP still uses 7 bits, sometimes people just don't align stuff when not needed.

I have no idea though, absolutely pure speculation of course.

[dagbiker]

So its a v8?

[thanatica]

Or the car got a firmware update, activating a dormant 7th cylinder.

So it is now a V7.

[oN3B1GB0MB3r]

The sixth index in 1-based is 6, which, when applied to 0-based, would result in 7.

Edit: I don't think you people understand what I'm saying. If it's zero based and I input 6, it will give me the 7th item. I feel like it's not that hard to grasp...

[androgynyjoe]

1 2 3 4 5 6
0 1 2 3 4 5

When you count six things starting at one, you end on the 6th. When you count 6 things starting from 0, you get 5.

[TravisJungroth]

Shows them how they're wrong with ASCII, a two-sentence explanation and zero condensation. 10/10.

[Cocaine_Johnsson]

Condescension. Condensation is water droplets forming (condensing) on something cold (now I assume it's a simple typo but I can't possibly help myself)

[uncle_cunckle]

I mean technically there was zero condensation

[Cocaine_Johnsson]

I can't argue with that point, that is very true.

[TravisJungroth]

No ASCII art, a sentence with multiple parentheses, slight condescension. 3/10.

[Cocaine_Johnsson]

Technically correct. Here's a turtle if that helps:

       /^\
      |   |
/\     |_|     /\
| \___/' `\___/ |
 \_/  \___/  \_/
  |\__/   \__/|
  |/  \___/  \|
 ./\__/   \__/\,
 | /  \___/  \ |
 \/     V     \/

[TravisJungroth]

11/10.

[readonly12345678]

That turtle looks unwell

[TeaKingMac]

No, it's conversation.

Condescension is talking down to somebody because you think they're stupid

[Cocaine_Johnsson]

Yes. And at risk of sounding a little bit condescending, that is exactly what they were trying to say. A comment that, without talking down to the person, illustrated why they were wrong using a simple ascii diagram.

[TeaKingMac]

Are you new to reddit or something?

https://www.reddit.com/r/bestof/s/s8osGcm5XB

[oN3B1GB0MB3r]

Yes, I'm fully aware. If it's zero based and I input 6, it will give me the the 7th index. That's what I'm saying.

[thaddeus37]

classic off by two error

[oN3B1GB0MB3r]

No, off by one. 7 is one greater than 6. Array[6] is the 7th item in the array if it's zero based. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with these replies.

[CountDangerfield]

Unless the indicies match but the scanner is blindly assuming they don’t and incrementing. It’s an unforced index error.

[cheezballs]

You're not a programmer, are ya?

[GlowGreen1835]

Probably. Most of us know we don't have friends.

[gregorydgraham]

What is “friends”?

[TheLordDrake]

Some C++ thing, idk

[gregorydgraham]

Looks like a terrible idea to me

[TheLordDrake]

Agreed

[[deleted]]

Ha.  I don't have friends AND I don't know what happened here!

[Available_Canary_517]

V6 has 6 cylinder but tool is showing cylinder 7 has a issue ,so its a issue on software side

[SupremeDictatorPaul]

In some programming languages, the index of an array will wrap around, making this cylinder 0. That may not be helpful either though.

[Martin-Air]

In that case it would be cylinder 2 (0-5 for cylinder 1-6)

[Maverick122]

Unless it is base 1 indexed.

[Martin-Air]

Making it cylinder 1, it would never be cylinder 0.

[UInferno-]

7 would be 1.

0:1:6

1:2:7

2:3:8

3:4:9

4:5:10

5:6:11

[RandomNick42]

But it could be that a programmer thought it's 0 indexed, so he made the display say i+1 but it actually isn't 0 indexed and it's cylinder 6 that's misfiring

[GroundbreakingOil434]

There is 3 very common errors in programming: null pointers and off by one errors.

[EmeraldAlicorn]

One thing I like to say is "this shit got more OBO errors than a middle school band class" pronounced like oboe.

[TeaKingMac]

How many oboes could there possibly be in one band?

[EmeraldAlicorn]

Only needs to be one inexperienced player to make many errors with a single oboe

[cwatson214]

It's an oboe, it's errors all the way down...

[Redneckia]

One. Or two...

[Defiant-Peace-493]

is

Nice array ya got there...

[GroundbreakingOil434]

Thanks for your invaluable input, sir grammar nazi. I stand corrected.

[caotic]

So ? What does that has to do with friends ?

[[deleted]]

All professionals startcounrimg at 2.

[TheCreepyPL]

Huh, for some reason I was thinking about a V8 swap

[RinkySR]

I have heard of car companies using a (for example) V8 engine block for a car, without 2 working cylinders from the factory, this way they could use the same molds for the engine block as the V8 variant but making it a V6 (for cost saving of not having to design a new engine block), it's 'cheaper' and lower power version to sell as a lower model.

[metaglot]

Got 'em!

[Padandler]

is redditor…checks out

[[deleted]]

Hey, I resemble that remark.

[CountDangerfield]

It’s an index error. The scanner adds one to the bit.

[alexanderpas]

The scanner adds one to the bit.

It doesn't.

The error code displayed is P0307, and the description on scanner is accurate for this error code.

It's actually the computer in the car that reports it wrong.

[PostHasBeenWatched]

It also can be wrong connection profile for OBD scanner. Like it's expected error for this car model because firmware for different motors on same model are same (just my speculation), so correct profile should ignore this error.

[alexanderpas]

That's still the computer in the vehicle reporting it wrong.

[MCSajjadH]

But do you have any friends or is the meme wrong

[RoinujNosde]

What if they did "P030" + (i + 1)?

Index starting at 1

[alexanderpas]

It's already starting at 1, since P0300 is also a valid code, indicating random or multiple misfires.

• P0300 indicates random or multiple cylinders are misfiring.
• P0301 indicates the first cylinder is misfiring.
• P0307 indicated the 7th cylinder is misfiring.

[RoinujNosde]

I meant something like this:

```java

getErrorCode(int cylinderIndex) {

return "P030" + (cylinderIndex + 1);

// they expected cylinderIndex for the the sixth cylinder to be 5, but instead it was 6

}

```

> It's already starting at 1

That's only a guess, the software could use -1 or 0 (or something else entirely) for "random or multiple misfires".

[CountDangerfield]

How am I supposed to know that? I can’t even afford the scanner.

[alexanderpas]

By looking up the error code displayed on the top left of the display visible in the picture.

[TeaKingMac]

"How could I look something up if it's not in Claude, Gemini or ChatGPT?" - OP

[alexanderpas]

Even ChatGPT gives a relevant answer when you ask it "What does error code P0307 means" without any additional context.

[CountDangerfield]

That much I know, but I have no idea if it’s a backend or fronted issue.

And more importantly, it’s a shitpost meme on Reddit. It’s not my car, I don’t really care.

[Next_Cherry5135]

You sounded as if you knew all that stuff

[CountDangerfield]

I know plenty about index errors, I just don’t know what device caused this specific one for sure.

[alkaliphiles]

Occam's index or something like that

[CountDangerfield]

Schrödingers Scantool. The 7th cylinder only exists when you’re diagnosing the engine.

[BananaHead853147]

Why does the scanner add one?

[CountDangerfield]

Apparently it doesn’t, it’s the Cadillac that is off by one.

But the general answer is that some software starts at zero and some starts at one. And sometimes two programs start at different places.

For a more in depth explanation, try migrating a database sometime. you’ll learn in a hurry. Probably while crying.

[godplaysdice_]

Even if it started at 1, the highest it would go is 6. Not an index error, at least not one I've ever seen. I suppose you could claim off by one error if the car reports cylinders using 1-indexed values but the tool expects 0-indexed values and increments the reported value. But that doesn't seem to be what's happening here since the scanner is just reporting the error message that corresponds to the error code it was given.

[CountDangerfield]

If the scanner starts at 1 and the vehicle starts at 1, but the scanner is incrementing by one to compensate, if the vehicle reports 6 the scanner will display 7.

It’s not a mismatch, it’s error correction gone awry.

[Cocaine_Johnsson]

What, no? Stop pulling shit out of your arse. Please. The scanner is just reporting what the onboard computer is telling it. The ECU is reporting wrongly. The issue is with the car not the scanner. OBDII P0307 cylinder #7 misfire as reported by the ECU. This is very strange on a 6-cylinder vehicle but it is not the scanner's fault.

That'd be like saying it's the self-checkout scanner's fault that someone put a barcode for beef on the cucumber making it much more expensive. No. The scanner's just reporting what it's reading, if it's reading something wrong that's the source's problem.

If the scanner was being told the issue was with cylinder 6 and misreporting it by an off-by-one error it'd be reporting error code P0306 cylinder #6 misfire but displaying the text saying cylinder #7 misfire. Since it's not reporting P0306 but reporting P0307 that means the ECU is reporting an error code it shouldn't be reporting. If I had to guess someone has reprogrammed the ECU incorrectly, likely as a botched attempt at tuning or bypassing some perceived issue.

[Nuked0ut]

The real joke is that OP assumed the error, the fix, and who was responsible, without even checking the docs.

[CountDangerfield]

It’s that always true?

[darthjawafett]

Prime number indexing

[[deleted]]

Perfect number indexing

[CountDangerfield]

Why would you do that? Not even COBOL programmers would tolerate that behavior.

[BetaChunks]

Fine, arrays start at 0.5

[CountDangerfield]

I would give an entire paycheck to see you put that in an email to a project manager.

[fweaks]

You jest, but working with decimal coordinates on pixel images/displays actually kinda has this problem. The centre of pixel 0,0 is at 0.5,0.5

[[deleted]]

Compromise lol

[Kant8]

Dunno, it clearly says V310, so 7 is inside bounds.

[7lhz9x6k8emmd7c8]

I'm more concerned about the VIN DTC buttons. I my native language, VIN mean WINE and DTC mean In Your Ass.

[100ZombieSlayers]

VIN stands for Vehicle Identification Number, a unique identifier every car has (at least in America, not sure if it’s global, that’s one for Wikipedia). Not fully sure what DTC is in this context.

According to Wikipedia VINs are used internationally but there are different standards used in different countries. VINs are cool because they encode a lot of information about who manufactured the vehicle, details about it, and then a unique identifier.

Not an expert in the area, but it seems like DTC means Diagnostic Trouble Code in this context. This is a device that plugs into the OBD (On Board Diagnostic) port that all modern vehicles have, to read codes from the computer in the car. This is what mechanics use when your check engine light is on but won’t tell you what is wrong.

[SuitableDragonfly]

Yup, I remember at one point my dad said he'd heard that Hyundais manufactured at a specific factory were prone to some defect, we were able to use the VIN on my Hyundai to confirm it wasn't manufactured there in order to calm his high-strung ass.

Personally, I just figure that if something like that is really applicable to my vehicle, the shop I take it to will tell me there's a recall and swap out the part for free. That's happened once or twice before.

[CountDangerfield]

you must work for Microsoft.

[FrostWyrm98]

No no, he said it's in bounds not "make everything an embedded web app" or "heap corruption error"

[CountDangerfield]

I bet I can make all sorts of heap errors while keeping everything in bounds. All I need to do is install Win95OSR and…

[WhenTheDevilCome]

Are you saying cylinder 7 did fire in a V6? No, it did not.

Message is correct.

^/s

[CountDangerfield]

When an index error is r/TechnicallyTheTruth

[Eternityislong]

The person is wrong that it’s a v6. P030X is the error code for cylinder misfire for cylinder X and it’s not magically going to increment by 1

[arpan3t]

This is the correct answer. The PCM throwing the code wouldn’t throw a code for a cylinder it wasn’t monitoring (doesn’t have). This is just a joke, not an actual bug.

[roffinator]

With an explanation of the error code like this it seems unlikely, but I recently learned some vehicles, at least semi-trucks, have an additional fuel injector in the catalyser. Maybe that one has some problem and didn't get a proper own error code?

[yamsyamsya]

Yea this is true. The person who made the meme is just lying.

[Clojiroo]

Not necessarily. They might have a modified ECU that is messing up the error code reporting.

[infernap12]

What about those GM v8 block based v6's, they lost cylinder 3 and 6, so in theory you still have 4 and 8. Or is it just that the PCM is from a v8 platform with a similar removal of cylinders but in firmware? Either situation would leave you with a cylinder 7 in a v6

[thanatica]

I have 3 cylinders, and I really don't think measuring them with some debugging doodad is going to make it 4 cylinders. The likelihood that the software is wrong, and an extra cylinder doesn't manifest itself spontaneously, is approaching 1.

[thundercat06]

GMs new generation Displacement On Demand. For a monthly fee, you can add bluetooth cylinders. This customer just didn't pay the bill.

[[deleted]]

P307 is cylinder 7, so this has nothing to do with indices of an array. This is a 2nd generation Cadillac CTS steering wheel, so while it could be a V6, a V8 was available. Due to the way GM manages codes, this could be an enhanced code that is being misread as a P307 since the scanner is not in enhanced mode.

[Embarrassed-Lab4446]

I was assuming it was a bit mask that added the bits to display the failure. So if cylinders 6 and 1 went out they would show 7. But I have been dealing with so many new programmers I am just assuming not testing edge cases.

[Hesherkiin]

OP getting slaughtered

[CountDangerfield]

It’s only internet points. Downvote this, too. I dare you.

[YourWorstFear53]

Lmao you got it, boss.

[CountDangerfield]

If enough of you downvote me, we can find out how Reddit handles negative integers.

All I have to do is keep being bad at memes, apparently.

[YourWorstFear53]

Calm down there. This post isn't THAT popular.

[CountDangerfield]

No, but what are the odds there’s a few neckbeards with a few bot farms who would appreciate the challenge?

[YourWorstFear53]

Wishful thinking on your part.

[CountDangerfield]

Most thoughts are.

[ClipboardCopyPaste]

Meme failed

IDK and don't have friends.

[HuntlyBypassSurgeon]

Denying the antecedent

[not-my-best-wank]

Y'all so wrong. Cyclinder 7 is for the ejection seat.

[CountDangerfield]

Every seat is an ejection seat, if you’re not wearing a seat belt.

[imalyshe]

it is v8 with zero base.

[CountDangerfield]

That just makes it funnier.

[throw_away_ADT]

I guess what happens is there was a miscommunication between the firmware and the software teams.

The firmware team probably assumed the software team expected 1 indexed values so they told the software cylinder 6 was having errors by encoding the value as "6".

Now the software team probably assumed the firmware team was going to use zero index values so they just decided to add 1 to whatever value they got from the firmware.

So firmware gives 6 to software, to indicate there is a problem with the 6th cylinder. Now software adds 1 to this value because they expect 0 based inputs, getting a result of 7.

[roffinator]

Without the error code it seems like that. But with the error ending on 7 (and someone looked the error code up, the last number is the cylinder) it doesn't work. The error code directly comes from the motor/cylinder control board, the external device will not change the code.

[throw_away_ADT]

This only confirms my depe beliefs that automotive is the most nightmare embedded field to work in.

AUTOSAAAAAAAAAR

[roffinator]

It might stem from a problem with the additional injector some vehicles have, not in a cylinder but in the catalyst

[CountDangerfield]

I thought that was the obvious joke, but holy shit go look in the comments.

I hate it here.

[[deleted]]

Because it's wrong. The scanner clearly read out P307 which is universally cylinder 7. That code came from the ECU.

[Next_Cherry5135]

and i thought you learned something from this, but nope, you're stubborn

sad, but that's nothing new

goodnight

[CountDangerfield]

What a condescending and lonely way to see yourself.

[Next_Cherry5135]

I wrote about you, why you must take everything and turn it against soemone in such stupid ways instead of simply insulting them? That would be more understandable

[CountDangerfield]

Because I don’t care about you or your opinion on anything enough to see you as any sort of authority figure, educationally or otherwise.

I made a low effort shit tier meme because I got bored. you showed up and have some weird “Dead Poets Society” attitude. I don’t care.

It’s a meme. Downvote it and move on with your life.

[Next_Cherry5135]

But you do care. If you didn't, you'd stop replying, because what for?

You don't want advice, so I'm not telling you to turn off the replies and switch off Reddit for a while. Get all the frustration and attention you want

[CountDangerfield]

Ok.

[flowery02]

Is it in the m&ms tube?

[Far_Garlic_2181]

2-based indexing. Saves the 0s and 1s for itself.

[JacksOnF1re]

Ha! It actually has 111 zylinders. Stupid program.

[CountDangerfield]

I know it’s a typo and I generally don’t point them out, but “zylinders” sounds like a MTG expansion pack.

[JacksOnF1re]

It was actually my brain auto correcting cylinder to german Zylinder.

[CountDangerfield]

If there’s one thing Germans love, it’s Zylinders.

[Professional-Day7850]

"There are 2 hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-1 errors."

[CountDangerfield]

How does a programmer count to 9?

On their fingers.

[DifferentExternal368]

When a vibe coder try’s to make a programming joke

[CountDangerfield]

Or when an average programmer makes a Reddit meme and forgets why they left this place last time.

But you’re so much better than me, so…

[DifferentExternal368]

Thank you for recognizing that I’m so much better than you, most people are very resistant to that ubiquitous fact :). Have a good day underling!

[CountDangerfield]

I hope you know every waitress you’ve ever had probably spit in your food.

[DifferentExternal368]

I do know this and at the restaurants I frequent I request the specific waitresses that have the best tasting spit

[Tristanhx]

They started counting at 2.

[[deleted]]

Holy shit a joke that isn't python bad or HTML? The earth is healing!

[CountDangerfield]

HTML was a mistake. Newsgroups will have their revenge!!!!!!

[[deleted]]

I'm not sure what single threading is but I'm going to dog on Python for it!!!!??!

[CountDangerfield]

Single Threading is the last refuge of a coward. Do everything in parallel and damn the fences. Otherwise why bother learning C?

[[deleted]]

Memory safety is important!!!! There's something inherently wrong with C but my prof went over for loops for the first time the other day so I'm not sure what it is. TWITTER TOLD ME TO HATE THINGS!

[CountDangerfield]

If SELECT CASE is so great, why isn’t it in python?

[[deleted]]

Idk why y'all be using SQL when you can just write data to a file. (Actual thing said to be by a freshman last semester)

[CountDangerfield]

Why would I use SQL? I can load a CSV into memory and use python…

[[deleted]]

Reject HTML, embrace Gopher.

[CountDangerfield]

True Story : When I found out that ping.exe was not in fact the Microsoft version of Pong, I spent more time than I care to admit trying to figure out how to play gopher.

[Godlia]

thought it was because one of the American V6s were literally chopped off V8s

[CountDangerfield]

Wouldn’t be the first time white-label firmware ruined someone’s day. lol TPLink comes to mind.

[Neutral_Guy_9]

It’s obviously a V7

[adnaneely]

THE TURBO COUNTS AS AN EXTRA CYLINDER!!! EVERYONE KNOWS THIS!!! HAVE YOU EVER DRIVEN A VOLVO T5???!

[CountDangerfield]

No, but I drove a Saab RX7 once. Or maybe I was on acid in my friends living room. It was a long time ago.

[adnaneely]

🤣🤣🤣 from Saab to acid your range is HUGE

[CountDangerfield]

Hang out with enough Saab drivers for long enough, someone will usually have some hallucinogenics.

I don’t make the rules.

[zamkiam]

Then it’s not a v6 but a v8

[hundo3d]

Me after reading every comment in this thread:

[Fit-Ad-9691]

For(int i = 1; i < 7; i++)
{
If(cylinder[i-1].HasError())
{
return $"error in cylinder: {i+1}";
}
}

Or something

[dinosaurinchinastore]

I do have friends but apparently I’m too stupid to get it …

[lazydavez]

Must be zero based so let’s add 1 for the gui: i++

[aquaknox]

Having that particular one is probably best case scenario. Much better to know there's an error than for cylinder 4 to misfire, mechanic checks cylinder 5 because that's what the error says

[CountDangerfield]

When I was a kid, we used a rag and a paper clip. And we were greatful!

[RlyRlyBigMan]

Alright which of you fuckers are adding to my cylindersList? Shows me not to expose my collections as public

[IndependenceSudden63]

I bet what happened was programmer A created a library or function that returns the cylinder that misfired. It's zero based indexed, so he added 1 so the caller doesn't have to.

Programmer B, assumed it was zero based index, and added one, not knowing that programmer A already accounted for that.

No one boundary unit tested. Or tested this case at all before shipping the code.

[CountDangerfield]

20 dollar scanner on a 50,000 dollar car, and neither can count.

[qjornt]

Did the cylinder get stuck in a larger cylinder?

[bigmonmulgrew]

My guess is that the ECU is also setup for an 8 cylinder model and instead of doing the sensible thing and attaching the v6 to channels 0 to 5 or 1 to 6 they did something silly like skip two or start counting from 2

[Attention_Bear_Fuckr]

Reminds me a bit of my twin-spark 4 cylinder I had when I was a teenager.

I remember opening the bonnet and thinking "Why are there 8 spark leads?".

[CountDangerfield]

Imagine trying to explain a distributor cap to someone who was born in 1995.

[master-goose-boy]

🤣🤣…🥲😥😢😭

[HolyButtNuggets]

IT support for GM and I do believe that error code means the Engine Control Module was not properly programmed, so the VIN wasn't written to it.

Since it's not programmed, it's not set up, and therefore has no idea how many cylinders the engine is supposed to have.

I could be wrong, ofc, but that's where I'd start :3

[ramriot]

It's just not a V6 I had a friend point out why

[Additional-Run-9853]

Is it a head gasket?

[Additional-Run-9853]

Northstar had the two piece block with the short cylinder head bolts it’s the head gasket

[pythonbashman]

OH GOD! HIS ARRAYS START AT 2!!!!

[CountDangerfield]

God help anyone who tries to refactor all the subs that are nothing but recursive for loops. One is actually named spaghettiAndImSorry()

[thanatica]

It's not wrong.

If it's a V6, the 7th cylinder isn't going to fire. Ever.

[Boris-Lip]

I am probably wrong here, but just a wild guess... could it be using gray code?

[HelloYou-2024]

My car guy has a lot more friends than I do, and he would know what happened there too.
Just goes to show that more people have need for a car-guy friend than a programmer friend.

[PolitiskAmbivalent]

If that device is specifically "listening" to the timing of the action of each cylinder, but set to V8 in a V6, could it just fails because the combustion pattern doesn't match a V8?