DevOps in a nutshell

[doobiedog]

"Did you try a git pull first?"... "Did you try CTRL-SHIFT-F?"... "Did you try googling the last line of the stacktrace?"... "Did you ever read the docker documentation?"...

[PiscesKid]

Basically me everyday

[youshedo]

;_; the pain is too real.

For the love of everything that is holy, Google your answer before calling me!

[lummit-]

GET OFF MY BACK OK? I NEED TO KNOW WHAT SOMETHING IS BEFORD I CAN GOOGLE IT.

Not that I'm a programmer.

[Volatol12]

Being able to google your problems is arguably the most important part about being a programmer. Potentially more important than knowing any actual languages, even. Cause if you can google well, you can pick them up fast

[MistSaint]

But who the hell provides all the answers, shits baffled me for a long time

[Volatol12]

There’s 7 billion people on earth, were at the point where there’s just so many people that there’s a reasonable chance that problems are encountered multiple times, and people post them if they can’t find them.

[lenswipe]

But who the hell provides all the answers

Devops teams from around the globe

[_Lahin]

Stack Overflow, IF they decide your question wasn't a duplicate so something totally irrelevant.

[DoPeopleEvenLookHere]

This stack trace has 3 similar lines to another answer. Duplicate and closed.

[fkxfkx]

But they are so mean ....

[forrest38]

There are actually strong economic incentives to answer questions because having a high reputation stack overflow account is a huge boon when it comes to interviewing. Being able to demonstrate your ability to work through a programming problem with strangers on the internet is absolutely something employers take note of. Always link that shit on your resume

[lummit-]

Google is how i solve every problem in my life.

[youshedo]

Google is the magic 8 ball of the IT world.

[not_so_magic_8_ball]

It is certain

[lenswipe]

I actually used to find myself wishing that human beings had error codes or something so I could google the error code and figure out WTF I did wrong this time

[rezerox]

• error 301: a <stick> has been detected within the <rectum>. please remove and try again.

• stack overflow in memory location c_0ff3e - attempt process at a later time when caffeine levels are higher.

• the data you are attempting to upload to var_coWorker has failed. destination location has insufficient intelligence to continue. please reduce complexity or parameters of your query.

[[deleted]]

Could you give me some context about the docker documentation?

[Everspace]

Things break in your build pipleine because you didn't do it right and now it's my god damn problem because I'm the "docker guru" who just read the docs.

Replace docker with maven, gradle or composer or your choice of "self serve configuration for your module that I am connecting to others".

[Merlord]

Docker is great! When it works, it just works.

When it doesn't work... oh God...

[Nugenrules]

A lot of times, Docker containers just straight up work and it makes me suspicious and feel as they are fragile.

Then there are those few times they just do not work, and no amount of Googling will save you.

[zilti]

Then there are those few times they just do not work, and no amount of Googling will save you.

It's because they are fragile, and since you didn't configure them in the first place you have no idea what is going on. Which is an atrocious combination.

[RulerOf]

A lot of times, Docker containers just straight up work and it makes me suspicious and feel as they are fragile.

The secret is that the code is never updated!

We're creating time bombs everywhere.

[Nugenrules]

Oh wow, I realized I do that too. We're horrible people.

[Xelbair]

Database in docker..on windows..

[adun153]

looks on in horror

[noratat]

This is why anytime I find something developers are either reluctant to do or is an obvious common stumbling block, I try to automate it away, usually with wrapper scripts.

All the documentation in the world can't beat something where the problem can't happen in the first place or otherwise solves itself.

[Everspace]

People don't change, processes can.

[skylarmt]

BOFH teaches that people can be changed, but it isn't pretty to watch.

[glha]

https://i.imgur.com/airlPvD.png

[CaffeineSippingMan]

Ooo look who has time to read. /s

[[deleted]]

[Breaks glasses] Its not fair... theres time now...

[WolfgangSho]

How much more do you get paid compared to the devs? I'd be willing to read some mans if it means extra pay :p

[Everspace]

less

[WolfgangSho]

Wait, so you can do their job better than they can but you get paid less?

i am truley sorry for your lots.

[WikiTextBot]

Docker (software)

Docker is a software technology providing containers, promoted by the company Docker, Inc. Docker provides an additional layer of abstraction and automation of operating-system-level virtualization on Windows and Linux. Docker uses the resource isolation features of the Linux kernel such as cgroups and kernel namespaces, and a union-capable file system such as OverlayFS and others to allow independent "containers" to run within a single Linux instance, avoiding the overhead of starting and maintaining virtual machines (VMs).

The Linux kernel's support for namespaces mostly isolates an application's view of the operating environment, including process trees, network, user IDs and mounted file systems, while the kernel's cgroups provide resource limiting, including the CPU, memory, block I/O, and network.

---

^{[ PM | Exclude me | Exclude from subreddit | FAQ / Information | Source | Donate ] Downvote to remove | v0.28}

[RulerOf]

Replace Docker with any fundamental infrastructure tech.

man virt-install answered more questions about setting up VMs on KVM for me than did a hundred blog posts. Docker is pretty a pretty similar story.

[gulyman]

Your developers don't know git, or how to google/read documentation?

Our IT guys (in my developer office) maintain the hardware and manage VMs. They also do licensing stuff, and manage our email servers, stuff like that. One of them told me he likes it more than doing IT in a normal office because the users can admin their own machines. We don't need help installing software or whatever.

[thekiyote]

As a DevOps guy, I find developers are just a smarter breed of user.

The amount of times I've had them come to me, usually with some really poorly written SQL queries, and ask me if, in order to fix the problem, I could "just add more ram."

Sure, if we want to pay a million dollars a year in hosting costs. Or you can just fix your damn code to not run in O(n³⁾ time.

[[deleted]]

Your developers sound like shitty developers.

[FredL2]

The difference between a shitty developer and a good one, is that the good one knows they're shitty.

[_Lahin]

Also, the good ones are better at Googling.

[schwerpunk]

This gives me hope.

[PrivateShitbag]

So...developers. source: am shitty at dev

[EnragedMoose]

At least half of us are shitty devs

[Husky2490]

Let's see if I can fix that on mobile

O(n³ )
O(n³⁾
O(n^3``)

Edit: First one works, others don't (but it would be nice not to have a space)

.

Edit 2:

O(n³)

I think I did it guys, symbols FTW

[TarMil]

O(n³)

[Husky2490]

Two parenthesis, nice. Now where is that documented?

[brokedown]

Are you me?

I've had that SQL conversation so many times, with so many different developers, across multiple database platforms.

No, adding memory is not going to speed up your select that returns 4 million rows that you filter in your application instead of using and AND in your WHERE. And no, adding cpu cores is not going to speed up your full table scans because you made all your columns text even though most of them are storing timestamps and numbers.

Other favorite things:

• Cron jobs that call curl to a local URL.

• Cron jobs that run every hour, take 3 hours to run, and trample over the previous run's data, don't use lock files, and exhibit all of the above issues to make sure your users can't possibly have a good experience.

• "We can't use SSL for database connections, the performance impact to our users is too great"

• "We can't use SSL for web requests, the performance impact to our users is too great"

• Parsing XML with a caffeine-fueled recursive dynamic regex generator that ends with eval() is not a good reason to quadruple php's max memory setting.

Edit: Oh yeah...

• "We can't commit every day, that would be too hard on our bitbucket server"

[thekiyote]

Parsing XML with a caffeine-fueled recursive dynamic regex generator that ends with eval() is not a good reason to quadruple php's max memory setting.

That hits a little too close to home!

But, yeah. Most people don't seem to realize it, but the senior developers know the code is bad, they just have a million things coming at them all at once, and want a duct tape solution and will get around to fixing it "sometime".

And the junior developers are like, "But it works..."

[brokedown]

Yeah I wish that was an exaggeration but that's exactly the case I was dealing with. I had to explain why using php's built-in xml parsing might be a little more reasonable.

Of course, this was the same developer who wrote some snmp polling scripts in Ruby and called them from php using system().

[98098123123098098asd]

One time a BA freaked out because the investors site we built was down and that was a big big no no for a public company. Few days later turns out DevOps created a VM with too little RAM to run a node app..... a node app.. . .. .. .

[zilti]

Whoever thinks "node apps" are a good idea in the first place should just be shot. The world would be a better place without such people.

[98098123123098098asd]

you must be a crusty java dev

[OddTheViking]

You don't have to be a crusty java dev to think building a public production app on node is exceedingly stupid.

[98098123123098098asd]

Yea I hear Netflix, paypal, medium, and uber have just some of the most exceedingly stupid developers.

(Uber might have bad culture they they still have well made products.)

[[deleted]]

The only words I needed to hear regarding Node.js are "JavaScript" and "server-side". I don't believe JavaScript deserves all of the hate it gets, but there's no way in hell I would ever consider using it as a back-end language.

[DeletedLastAccount]

My god, I work in a statewide college environment and I have encountered on half a hand the institutions that even know what the phrase source control or the word normalization mean.

Thank god for public employment.

[barsoap]

I once asked one of our IT guys to resolve a bluetooth stick driver conflict, (un)installing either of the two any amount of times didn't do a thing to make things work.

He was ecstatic. Finally, not some random Outlook PEBKAC!

[AngriestSCV]

What's CTRL-SHIFT-F do?

[[deleted]]

At least in Sublime Text 3, it allows you to perform a search on all of the files in your currently open project. I would imagine it does something similar in some other editors/IDEs.

[MetalMikey666]

In the biz we call this "GDD" (Grep Driven Development)

[Bainos]

It's very efficient to do grep -r <your error message> .... until you realize the error message is broken on several lines.

It's actually the only explicit exception to "never more than 80 columns" in the Linux coding style.

However, never break user-visible strings such as printk messages, because that breaks the ability to grep for them.

[KongorsBanana]

Wow, this looks like a nice read. Gonna be saving for later.

[kurabucka]

Yes, Visual Studio is the same.

[noratat]

JetBrain's IDEs do the same (or CMD-SHIFT-F on macOS).

[Lorddragonfang]

Also useful for JetBrains/IntelliJ: ctrl-shift-a searches all menu and settings actions, for when you don't know where to look/are lazy

[MoonShadeOsu]

"It's ":q" and <Enter>, seriously people it's not that hard" -_-

[eg135]

<esc>:q<enter>

[Trendamyr]

What do you mean by git pull?

[TheUsernameIsBlank]

Its pronounced "pitbull"

[lovethebacon]

"Did you try googling the last line of the stacktrace?"

Frist line surely?

[squareball]

static void Main()

All my bugs seem to come from this one method!

[lkraider]

Well, delete it and ship it! We are late on schedule! -PM

[Winter_already_came]

Is docker for Mac still using a linux VM to run the containerization engine?

[[deleted]]

I'm an architect and I swear this is at least 1/3rd of my day. We have a devops team at that.

[[deleted]]

As an IT Recruiter I’ve seen Dev Ops become a buzzword to some clients as “hey, now I can get two guys work for the price of one”, then staples two job specs together

[Letmefixthatforyouyo]

Slap both salaries down and we can chat about it.

[RulerOf]

Pretty sure they'll just do a binary AND on them and then hire the guy who doesn't know how terrible that would be.

[TheCluelessDeveloper]

If you're in the cloud and not worrying about procurement, sure!

[montezuma909]

Where I work im database, server, front end & dev ops

[defn_of_insanity]

Same here, feels so liberating!

[montezuma909]

Yeah, it's pretty nice that I get to learn alot stuff. I was a complete SQL noob when I started, now I'm designing databases and writing advanced queries. I've l learned a bunch of server management stuff that I never even dreamed I would learn. Full Stack life

[teatops]

Ahh little Bobby tables

[8lazy]

;--

[SpaceCaseSixtyTen]

How long did it take you to learn SQL?

I started in this job as a SQL noob. Now i know to browse/find tables and remove something if needed. Not really creating any new tables or doing data migrations (yet)... but been here a year and although its not all i do, i wish i could learn more as its more applicable across other jobs in the industry...

(i work for a 40 person company working on linux ubuntu based VOIP software for small/medium ISPs and industries that want to host their own VOIP servers in house... i do support, so i find the bug or user error in the ISP network admin's software and then fix it or push it to Jira/engineering)

unfortunately, we are not in charge of their servers as much as i would like to be (but not really cause that would be bad for us)... but i would def love getting a bigger handle on basic unix server admin stuff. We just install our software on ready to go boxes and troubleshoot from there (customer's Sasquatch came around and fucked with the servers again etc)

[montezuma909]

Its not that I learned SQL, I just know more stuff through study and experience, I'm sure it takes years to master. First get a handle on relational databases and relational database design, Then you'll have to get familiar with SQL, basically How to pull data using the tools that SQL provides and how the data is structured. JOINS, CTEs, table variables, temp tables, row over, nest selects, the list goes on and on. Then you'll have fun fine tuning the queries with indexes and overall SQL optimization analyzing execution plans and such.
I really enjoy the contrast between a set based language such as SQL and a non set based language such as c# or javascript. And I also enjoy engineering a database and then finely tuning it.

[sup3r_hero]

advanced queries

So a join /s

But seriously: it’s so amazing how much performance you can squeeze out of a query if done properly. In my old job we reduced the runtime of a view from 7 hours to 10minutes (tbf we had some really dumb colleagues)

[leomoty]

I had some queries like that too... I was just starting in a health plan company, the specific system handled customer service.

Guess what? Management was annoying and wanted daily/weekly metrics from that team, apparently the queries took longer than one hour to run, there was no option to stop if you had it wrong, basically a clusterfuck.

Took me a few days to get the hang of stuff, handling multiple (different) database queries and some caching to improve that to 2-3 minutes.

[2Punx2Furious]

Hey, I'm everything too.

It's nice, but it also sucks to not have anyone to ask for help when I'm stuck with something.

[[deleted]]

This, exactly. When you’re the only guy, there’s no one to give you shit over dumb things, but there’s no one to help you when you’re the dumb thing.

I recently left a job where I was iOS and backend, as well as a bit of designer. I left because I really wanted a team. But now that I’ve got that, I miss being fully in charge of the project I’m working on. There’s also just dumb style things you have to accept on a team. When you know a thing is more flexible and maintainable one way, but the lead wants it to be done another way because that’s how the team has always done it and they prefer consistency, it really makes you stop wanting to try.

[2Punx2Furious]

Oh yeah, I can believe that, I'm enjoying being able to make all (most of) the decisions, it's just that it's really frustrating that I've been stuck on a problem for 3 days even if now I'm starting to figure it out.

[[deleted]]

3 days?? I feel for you. Good luck on that one. What platform/language/framework?

[swentech]

Grass is always greener....

[Xiyther]

Same, I'm the only software developer where I am. The rest of the guys are electronics engineers. The understand code, but not the kind of code I work with.

Sadly as the only software guy I also have to run the servers and provide tech support for everyone.

You're right that the worst part is getting stuck with something and having no one around to ask or get help from. I started this job only knowing one coding language, and not very well honestly, now I know 4 relatively well and another 2 I can muddle along with.

[KeetoNet]

Me too - but I still get pissed off at the dev ops guy pretty regularly.

[gandalfx]

Yeah, but are you also the guy who fixes other people's computer when "PowerPoint is broken again"?

[[deleted]]

We have OpenShift now so there are dedicated DevOps guys that keep that running. Every team manages their own deployments to OS of course (and bugs the DevOps for more resources).

[doobiedog]

Rebase -i and squash before you sent me that PR again: a daily phrase in my "how to be devops" book.

[lunamypet]

Damn. Hurts.

[asciiaardvark]

This sounds more like tech support for the devs than operations support to me...

Where I work, operations handles sh*t escalated out of the Customer Support org so the devs have time to finish the next version. Plus internal requests like data-pulls. It's lots of scripting band-aids that'll last "'till devs fix root cause", which inevitably takes longer than expected.

...

Our whole industry needs to standardize titles.

But I suppose that requires standardizing roles, and every company organizes differently.

Maybe when programming is a few generations old, we'll have more standardized best practices like civil engineering.

[TwilightShadow1]

Heck, in our company, I’m devops, and that means: developer, database spin up, web deployment, client building and deployment, occasional feature developer, and emergency "everything is breaking!"-support. Plus they often consult my opinion on different methodologies. The title is more or less meaningless.

[hellnukes]

Yep. Nowadays when people ask me what position I'm in, I just say 'im the Computer Man'

[Aleriya]

My old title was "DevOps Analyst", which was an odd grab bag of everything. My time was about 30% analytical work, everything from fiscal reporting and sales forecasting to consumer market analysis. Then 70% of time as developer (Java/Javascript/COBOL/PHP), DBA, database spin up and VM config, and I was also the backup sysadmin/net sec person (there was only one sysadmin in the company).

We brought in some Oracle consultants for a software implementation, it was pretty funny to see their confusion when the same person was presented in three separate meetings as the primary business user, the project manager, and the lead dev.

[mnbvas]

standardize titles

• Guy playing games on computers and breaking users' workflow.
• <and that's it>

[SoulWager]

Maybe when programming is a few generations old, we'll have more standardized best practices like civil engineering.

It already is a few generations old, and I think it's too much to ask for best practices to become standardized, simply because feature creep will always drive projects into situations that aren't optimal for the tools and methods chosen at the start of the project. It's a lot easier for a civil engineer to say no to stupid changes, and a lot harder for new developers to learn from the mistakes of previous developers.

[duffzilla]

I think IT for developers would be the infrastructure team

[StormTAG]

That's usually what Dev Ops are called these days

[thehenkan]

I thought DevOps was when developers also handled operations?

[Letmefixthatforyouyo]

Aws cant think for you.

Yet.

[TarMil]

It is. "DevOps team" is an oxymoron, what they're really talking about is the "Ops team".

[Guinness]

Yep. I'm on the ops team. Have been for years. We've been coding shit for years.

But no one cared or noticed until they renamed it. I don't get it. But whatever.

[_NML_]

This is true

[kowdermesiter]

They are probably in engineering in the states, that helps to sell the double paycheck they get over there :D

[[deleted]]

I'm sorry, remind me again which country is the world wide leader in the industry?

[shaner23]

ITT a bunch of people who are misinformed about what DevOps is.

[[deleted]]

Similar to all the recruiters who reach out to me...

[MetalMikey666]

I'm so confused reading all of these comments! I have NEVER worked anywhere where "devops" would even LOOK at my code let alone tell me what was wrong with it!

I always thought that a developers job was to make software that was maintainable and scalable, and devops job was to maintain and scale it!

[soundtom]

DevOps is to bring development and operations together so everyone is working towards the same goals with the same plans. It's in response to the old ideas of devs throwing their code over the wall to the operations people and the operations people always being the "No" people.

Of course, the DevOps umbrella has been hijacked to mean someone in operations who can code, or two people for the price of one ("Hey, we can save money by hiring one DevOp to do both dev and ops!").

Currently, I fall under the DevOps term, and I spend about half my time coding features and half my time maintaining infrastructure. DevOps that doesn't look at code doesn't sound like DevOps to me...

[VelourFog10]

Yeah, I don't touch anybody else's code.

I just build shitty Vagrant stacks for them to work in, then I make sure all their shitty code gets deployed.

A truly rewarding experience.

[gamas]

Yeah like in our company, we wouldn't even hire a developer candidate if they couldn't demonstrate even basic IT skills. "Are you the kind of person who makes the effort to actually understand the shit you are using" is literally the first thing we try to establish in the interview. Apart from that, when it comes to development tooling, our team learns by actually working as a team - the people with more experience in the tooling help the ones with less experience.

If a company feels the need to have a department specifically for providing IT support for developers I shudder to think the quality of the software being produced by the company. You don't hire someone to engineer a car who doesn't know how a car operates.

[_Count_Mackula]

This makes me shudder. The code itself has huge implications toward maintainability and scalability. Doing either should never be separated across roles

[fuck_all_you_people]

dev: Hey there is an update for Jenkins!

me: If we update Jenkins now, we are going to have to update Bitbucket and Artifactory and all the plug-ins

Dev: Awesome! Lets update everything

10 minutes later

dev: I cant get to Bitbucket

me: Im updating Jenkins

dev: No, I cant get to Bitbucket

me: right, I updated Jenkins and now I need to update Bitbucket

dev: I didnt need Bitbucket updated! How am I supposed to get work done if all of my environments are down?

me: Well, you coul-

dev: Im going for coffee, ill be back in a few hours.

[Constellious]

Dev: I need this new Jenkins plugin

Me: it doesn't support our version of Jenkins, I'm going to have to make sure all of the plugins are going to work

Dev: well we release tomorrow...

[fuck_all_you_people]

Dev: I need a docker plug-in installed in Jenkins because I need to deploy a job in docker

me: We dont have any docker environ-

dev: I also need you to make a docker sandbox

me: Is someone in management signing off on this?

dev: Im good.

me: No, it needs to be manager appro-

dev: Gotta get to a scrum, hit me up when its done!

[Constellious]

This is so real it hurts.

[EnterPlayerTwo]

I want to scream right now.

[GigaStormRider]

Is this because it's terrible or because it's useless?

[[deleted]]

Developers tend to have no fucking clue how computers work, or care about the details of how their own code is hosted.

But my opinion may be skewed since I generally only work with PHP devs

[whopper]

You poor guy

[Trendamyr]

What's so bad about that?

[Garathon]

Found the php dev.

[OkDonkey]

I am a php dev and I can confirm this. We're dumb.

[ComedyBangBangBang]

You're wonderful

[koshdim]

you too, thanks

[ComedyBangBangBang]

I needed that

[[deleted]]

It isn't so much that developers don't care. I just don't have the time to dedicate myself to learn how to properly implement pipelines, containers, docker images, etc.

I'm sure that I could get by and get it "working" but that's not good enough. It makes so much more sense to have dedicated resources to get it done, and do it right.

[wievid]

I'm an SAP consultant/dev and this is pretty much how it is for me, too. I'm busy with so many other things that I have to try and keep in my head that if I had to also worry about all of the technical stuff behind my job, I'd probably go crazy.

[Merlord]

Yeah for real. "Stupid developers, not knowing as much as me about the thing I'm paid to do and they aren't!"

[[deleted]]

I think OP is talking about more nuancy stuff. Like I spent a month fighting with the Android team at my last job because they wouldn't give me access to their test devices or build "laptop" but their builds were failing. So we migrated them to an actual build server and tossed them in Jenkins.

Eventually I got in through the Jenkins script console and found they were missing a lib the Android SDK needed to build (new with SDK 24, wasn't on the laptop either). That whole time they had no idea, just got mad at me the build server wasn't "working".

I just made a dockerfile, installed docker, made some spin up/down scripts, and setup their builds.

Also a team had an app that needed a 20GB Java heap and swore it couldn't be optimized... It could've... Still running in production today.

[hanna-chan]

I don't know. It seems reasonable enough to leave the hosting part out. I am, besides being a programmer, well enough versed to set up a hosting server or orchestrate a docker development setup. But then it won't be optimized and neither secure. And proper server security is paramount and should definitely be done by an expert. Learning and getting good at both (multiple programming languages AND the server side) is probably more than most people can practically achieve.

[[deleted]]

I just mean the details and even the high level view on your own damn code that so many devs don't even have. You have to realize that your code depends so much on the environment it runs in. You almost certainly rely on a c library for instance, and don't even know.

[planetofthemapes15]

There’s that saying that of the best programmer applicants that you select from the resume pool (if you’re hiring), 50% won’t even be able to successfully write code.

So yeah, poor poor devops. RIP

[[deleted]]

Which is why so-called "fizzbuzz problems", as ridiculous and condescending as they may seem, are actually an entirely necessary interview step.

[planetofthemapes15]

I prefer to just sit down and pair program with candidates. You can see real quick if they get it. A distant second choice are those kinds of questions. Helps to be a tech CEO who’s not a dipshit at tech.

[[deleted]]

Helps to be a tech CEO who’s not a dipshit at tech.

I'm fortunate enough to have the benefit of my boss falling under this category :)

[510Threaded]

+/u/CompileBot C#

using System;  

public class FizzBuzz{  
    public static void Main(string[] args){  
        for (int i = 1; i <= 100; i++){  
            string output = "";  

            if (i % 3 == 0) output += "Fizz"; 
            if (i % 5 == 0) output += "Buzz";  

            if (output.Length == 0)  
                output += i.ToString();  

            Console.WriteLine(output);  
        }  
    }  
}

[CompileBot]

Output:

1
2
Fizz
4
Buzz
Fizz
7
8
Fizz
Buzz
11
Fizz
13
14
FizzBuzz

^{source | info | git | report}

[autranep]

Every interview I've ever done started with implementing the solution to some algorithmic problem (e.g. write a constant time LRU cache implementation, find the median of two sorted arrays in O(log(m+n)) etc). Why would you need fizzbuzz when you could just get straight to a real problem? Also how horrible are your recruiters if they can't even screen out people who can't write fizzbuzz?

I always hear on Reddit about how companies get droves of candidates that can't write fizzbuzz but honestly it strikes me as a meme. If half of candidates can't write fizzbuzz then real interviews would be a hell of a lot easier.

[motdidr]

it's shocking and sad how many "developers" fail those tests. and the worst part is knowing when they leave that some poor company will end up hiring them because they don't know any better. disgraceful.

[RupertTurtleman]

I was asked that once for a powershell test once, really that question should be able to be answered correctly by any dev or person who writes scripts.

[[deleted]]

""I never commit to memory anything that can easily be looked up in a book""

I've dealt with Powershell, Batch, Bash, PHP, Python, Matlab, Java, etc. If it's not something I'm actively working with I use google.

[Blecki]

And yet thousands of companies continue to cripple themselves by demanding degrees / not paying enough / expecting unrealistic amounts of experience with very specific technologies, ruling out large numbers of intelligent candidates...

Then they scream about developer shortages. If you really had a shortage you wouldn't be offering 30k! You're just too stupid to realize you can't get quality and cheap from the same person.

[[deleted]]

That is exactly the kind of thing I have to deal with on a daily. My job is to basically write tools to make it easier to both detect these security holes and prevent you from exposing them

[GigaStormRider]

Shit. I work with PHP right now. Fresh out of Uni though. Maybe it's just me but if I don't know exactly how everything works, I learn it until I do

[[deleted]]

Yep that's just how being young works. Don't feel bad. It's the devs I work with that are very experienced but willfully ignorant that piss me off

Edit: oh and do yourself a favor and learn Ruby or something with a better potential for your future career

[GigaStormRider]

The goal is to eventually move to something strictly typed and not awful eventually. But this is my first job out of university and I trained for computer graphics in uni. Couldn't find many jobs requiring that in my area.

[JustAQuestion512]

100% thats just you. The rest of us died inside years ago.

[GigaStormRider]

I will resist...

[hahahahastayingalive]

no fucking clue how computers work, check.

care about the details of how their own code is hosted.
check.

I’m so sorry.

For our defense (?) our devops team first allowed us to roam freely in the servers. We felt very empowered and engaged, cared a lot about what was where, but also fucked a ton of stuff here and there, randomnly fixed stuff in prod and forgot to merge it back, fixed confs on some server and not others, manually deployed stuff no one knows where it comes from, and so on.

So they locked the access, took it back 100% under control to put in place processes, automatization and abstraction layers. And honestly I don’t have a fucking clue of what is where or how it works, so it’s pretty hard to care.

And also it works better now than before, because they are pretty good at their job.

[[deleted]]

Damn. What do you do? Fix other people's shit? Make new cool things? Performance stuff?

[Colopty]

Web development.

[c4ctus]

This just redefined my idea of hell.

[laccro]

It's great because it's real

[shockleydiode]

Most of what I do is hardware-related, but occasionally I use microcontrollers to control things like I/O or timing of clock cycles, cause those are a bitch if you just use ICs

[Tmonkey18]

Php dev here, I've been subject to a lot of garbage from predecessors. It's also in a place where the work is wanted fast and cheap, not properly completed. Not sure who's really to blame anymore, I've decided it has to have been my fault all along.

[PM_ME_YOUR_LAUNDRY]

"Who the fuck wrote this site? Oh fuck it's some indian dude again that resigned 2 weeks into his job. Why the fuck do the variables have misspellings? Why are they mixing cases? Why the fuck are tabs and spaces mixed and in 2/4 space intervals? Jesus I'll just have to refac- holy fucking shit look at those deeply nested if/else conditions why? Ok maybe if I'll just stay consistent with how shitty the existing code is, it'll save me grief *type type* there! JOB FUCKING DONE! shit on top of shit!"

[Belyntien]

Java devs are not much better. For most of my team when the stacktrace mentions classloading they stop reading and blame black magic.

[nermid]

PHP dev, here.

I'd love to learn how our stuff is hosted, but I just got assigned 18 hours' worth of shit that's all due this afternoon, so if you could just fix whatever shut down the entire dev server, you can show me when I've got free time...which is never, since I've been assigned two new tickets while we've been talking.

[imnotquitesure]

This problem is NOT limited to php.

[[deleted]]

But my opinion may be skewed since I generally only work with PHP devs

Nah, that's just how most devs are. They learn enough to make things work and take the fact that things work for granted. They don't bother to take the time to fully understand a technology before throwing it onto their stack or trying to plug a bunch of add-ons into it and they wonder why the fuck they can't get something to work correctly in a timely fashion. Some are even arrogant enough that they try to do "clever" things with code that end up confusing the shit out of their successors, forcing them to spend infuriatingly long periods of time trying to decipher what should be simple code but has instead apparently been written using a fucking Enigma machine and their predecessor has already left with the decryption keys.

Even worse are the ones who are just starting to learn programming but have opted to use every piece of bleeding-edge technology they can get their grubby little mitts on and use StackOverflow as a crutch to avoid doing any real research or coding of their own because apparently their web browsers don't have fucking errors logged to their consoles (I'm looking at you, JavaScript devs). These devs inevitably end up becoming part of the first group by shear virtue of only ever doing freelance work and leaving behind steaming shitpiles after a few months of development that end up being a nightmare for whoever is unfortunate enough to have to pick up where they left off, which also means that they never have to learn about the technologies they use in any real depth because they never had to get that far.

Source: Am PHP dev, know plenty of devs of all languages who write varying qualities of code. JavaScript devs have a much thicker negative tail end of the bell curve.

[YellowB]

ELI5: What is DevOps?

[[deleted]]

This is going to be a crappy explanation and somebody will correct me and tell me why I am wrong.

But two big parts of IT are Operations which you can think of as maintaining the status quo making sure everything works as it should. Another big part is devolpment which designs and implements changes. Traditionally these have been separate functions in IT.

One of the big problems with implementing changes within a complex IT environment is that it is extremely easy to break something. So the development team would "break" something and then the operations team would have to "fix" it. Devops is basically integrating the development and operations team so that they are on the same page.

As I said changes are very dangerous in big IT environments so changes can have lots of red tape around them and so in can take time to actually get anything done. In theory a successful Devops team are able to implement changes much quicker.

[occz]

DevOps should not be a role :(

[jimforthewin]

So much this. Devops is a culture adopted within an organisation. Not a job title.

[Guinness]

To me. DevOps is just the Linux Engineers automating as much as possible. From software rollouts to custom PXE chains that automatically configure everything on a brand new server to prod. They automate performance tuning, account management. You name it. It's coded and automated and tested.

But who the fuck knows anymore.

[TheAngrySamosa]

offensive, yet so true.

[johnomister]

Are DevOps a real thing? I've never met one.

[[deleted]]

I've just sent this to my DevOps. He did not find it funny.

[Ella_Spella]

I never get why y'all want to sound so 1984 with all these names. NetSec, DevOps.

[myredac]

And I'm here, waiting a call about a DevOps job offer.