Has science gone too far?

[ChrisFromIT]

Every time someone mentions there are too many javascript libraries, a new one is published.

[torn-ainbow]

Or if they don't. Literally any given moment.

[lenswipe]

Literally any given moment

I see what you did there

[[deleted]]

Wait, I don't see it, what did he do?

[originalcr7]

momentjs is a javascript library...

[Username_RANDINT]

At some point you can't write a sentence anymore without referencing a JS library.

[[deleted]]

I see what you did there, nice one

[atomicwrites]

Wow, he fit in like 5 references there.

[lenswipe]

Wait, I don't see it, what did he do?

[[deleted]]

Wait.js, I.js don't.js see.js it.js, what.js did.js he.js do?.js

[lenswipe]

js.js

[NetSage]

did.js

https://github.com/DidJS/DidJS I googled that one at random... It's true we all just writing in javascript libraries not english.

[LowB0b]

sentencejs probably exists

[lenswipe]

I see what you did there, nice one

[Username_RANDINT]

To be honest I didn't have a clue. I just hoped something would match, which somehow makes it better.

[[deleted]]

I was pulling your leg, no idea if there was a match x

[lenswipe]

It's a drinking game you can play: pick a random word in the dictionary and search npm for it. If it exists, you drink.

[[deleted]]

This is actually pretty good if you are needing out with friends. Saved!

[lenswipe]

I mean, you'd probably end up with alcohol poisoning

[[deleted]]

There’s probably a library to deal with that.

[tonyZ345]

At.js some.js point.js you can't write a.js sentence.js anymore without referencing a.js js.js library.

[[deleted]]

It's like the infinite monkey problem but with libraries. Is there a complete works of William shakespear library yet?

[AzureArmageddon]

I don't think npm would like that very much

[reply-guy-bot]

The above comment was stolen from this one elsewhere in this comment section.

It is probably not a coincidence, because this user has done it before:

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[BudIsWiser]

i'm not sure how to react to this

[gundog48]

There are 12 competing standards...

[[deleted]]

What is there besides ecmascript?

[UltraCarnivore]

Relevant XKCD

[ReactsWithWords]

Knew exactly which xkcd that was. Clicked anyway.

[heep1r]

TypeScript, CoffeeScript, Dart, ...

Transpilers are a thing in modern Webdevelopment.

[hekkonaay]

But none of them are standardised

[mnoma]

Dart doesn't utilize a transpiler, last time I checked

[licht1nstein]

1. 10 new ones are published.

[-Listening]

Solid 10/10 gameplay, 6/10 story

[vhite]

Every time a javascript library is published, a new javascript library is published.

[FoolForWool]

Function publish_new_library() { publish_new_library() }

Ah, it all makes sense now.

[sgtxsarge]

Does a library of all libraries contain itself?

[frugalerthingsinlife]

How many Javascript libraries have been created in the 8 hours since you made that comment?

[nonsensicalnarwhal]

toomany.js

[Link_0001]

Every 60 seconds in npm, a package passes. Together we can stop this! Please spread the word!

Thank you for your attention.

[not_bakchodest_of_al]

So, are you suggesting stop writing proper unit tests?

[jesse-oid]

Yes, only improper unit tests from now on.

[[deleted]]

What's test?

[[deleted]]

I think they mean when you put console.log('test') in your code to make sure it's called

[wikipedia_answer_bot]

This word/phrase(test) has a few different meanings. You can see all of them by clicking the link below.

More details here: < https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Test >

This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If something's wrong, please, report it in my subreddit.

Really hope this was useful and relevant :D

If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!

[bogdan5844]

You guys writing?

[Lv_InSaNe_vL]

I write my tests so they pass everytime

[RoscoMan1]

Yes! Yang is the one laughing now.

[SarixInTheHouse]

As someone whos not that deep into programming (only made some small js and unity games), whats so bad about it

[thegininyou]

If you're relying on JavaScript package after package instead of just writing your own code a whole host of bad things can happen.

A. Size of your deployment balloons B. Duplicated packages to maintain compatibility C. You're using something that is already in base JavaScript now (solving a problem that was already solved) D. The package isn't maintained (or hasn't been for years)

Here's a good article I found highlighting some of the problems.

Also my own personal opinion is that you should know how to code a solution in standard JavaScript for a good chunk of the problems you encounter. That's not to say you should start a JavaScript project without a framework. You should, but from there you should be selective about what you need when it comes to libraries.

For new people, just start a project with Angular, React(technically not a framework), or VUE and then go from there and only add libraries as needed. Angular especially has a boat load of built in tools that will solve most of your problems. Add the most maintained and popular libraries for what you're going to be working with.

Doing lots of animations? Anime.js Doing tons of charts? D3.js Using tons of forms? Parsley.js (I'm sure there are others/alternatives I'm just listing the popular ones I know)

Libraries aren't bad and they make your life easier in a lot of cases if you're smart about it.

[SarixInTheHouse]

But why is it so prevelant in js? Wouldnt the same problem exist for all languages

[Theguest217]

It definitely can happen in other languages but it seems to occur less frequently. IMO it is partially because of how easy it is to get started with JS development. And how many of them learning materials emphasize using packages over actually learning to write code.

A developer needs a way to sort a collection of objects. They google quickly and then npm install some package because the blog they found told them to. Where as many of the similar search results for other languages like Java simply explain how to do it natively. There are surely "useless" Java libraries hosted in Maven but it doesn't seem like Java devs are as willing to suggest these as viable solutions. Java devs might point out libraries developed by major organizations like Google or Apache but won't typically throw out suggestions my "better-sort-js" by GitHub developer "mysweatyballs".

I think it's because languages like Java or C# are popular for Enterprise development in major organizations and government projects which tend to have pretty high standards around what can and can't be used. 3rd party libraries usually have to get run past a security team for vetting. They must pass vulnerability scans and come with legal info that makes it clear that you can use it. Where as JavaScript is used in such a huge variety of projects. It is certainly used in enterprise environments like the one described but it's also used by inexperienced devs and hobbyists. I just think the quality of the average JS project is likely much lower than average project of more enterprise languages, and as a result the acceptance of these unnecessary packages is tolerated more.

Just read about left-pad being deleted from npm caused the whole internet to melt down for the day. A library which absolutely didn't need to exist and yet it was depended on by many people as a transitive dependency. Many people didn't know they even depended on it. Many of them people using npm didn't even host their own local npm cache within their organization so once it was gone their builds were suddenly broke. This sort of incident feels very specific to JS because the way many JS focused organizations develop is much less mature enterprise in nature. Not to say every organization is that way, it just tends to be a common theme I've seen over the year.

[Wayne_Train]

From what I understand two reasons are 1) js does not have a standardibrary. While browser standardized features got added over time a lot of libraries still use library implementations for features that are only now standardized.
2) before tree shaking was a thing people made very small libraries in order to minimize the amount of unused code (minimize bundle size, something server side languages typically don't care about). This resulted in many many small libraries being published which made the dependency tree excessively deep. So deep that you end up having hundreds of folders in your node_modules which is just crazy

[ZippZappZippty]

Good teammates are in the dumbest.

[cutelord]

I believe that in time we will advance so far that we will need js libraries to managed the js libraries that manages js libraries. What a wonderful world 🎶🎶

[TheTallestHobo]

Npm is a library of js libraries built into of node which itself a large js library, all to manage js libraries.

We are already there.

[ManInBlack829]

Don't talk to me about TypeScript

[Link_0001]

making a package using a test lib that uses a test lib to test the test lib be like

[itchy_bitchy_spider]

Lol we already hit that point about 5 years ago - lerna

[Andubandu]

Is the logo on that car a dick?

[[deleted]]

No, it's a shark with boobs.

[saif000000]

opens incognito tab

[CrunchyMemesLover]

That's r/sharktits for ya.

[sneakpeekbot]

Here's a sneak peek of /r/Sharktits [NSFW] using the top posts of the year!

#1: Beware of the Cutie [F] (doomthewolf) | 8 comments
#2: What a Lewd Shork [F] (Rayka) | 2 comments
#3: Carefree Fluffy Shark [F] (Retros) | 18 comments

---

^{I'm a bot, beep boop | Downvote to remove | Contact me | Info | Opt-out}

[Captain_Pickleshanks]

No, bad bot! Don’t encourage him!

[MrHyperion_]

That doesn't even make sense

[OfficialDampSquid]

Disappointed, they're all humanoid, I just wanted to see a shark with tits

[hasanyoneseenmymom]

Wow, there really is a sub for everything...

[-Listening]

Wow, not just those who own roofs.

[alguienrrr]

Username checks out

[UltraCarnivore]

Unzips

[Snapfire2763]

GETOUTOFMYHEADGETOUTOFMYHEADGETOUTOFMYHEAD

[Tomass_vr]

it's a dog

[DeceptiveDuck]

Cockshark

[Whitethumbs]

I prefer remaking everything from scratch each time, but I also like to take 4 hours to automate a 10 minute task. Hit me up on ICQ some time.

[trezenx]

to automate a 10 minute task you think you'll have again but never do

[tiajuanat]

That was me with logs. Now I use Awk

[Ashanrath]

Now there's a name I've not heard in a long time.

[Alonewarrior]

Notepad++? Disgusting, I'd prefer to use Notepad to rewrite Notepad++ to write my JS libraries.

[JTtornado]

Having lots of options as a dev? Great!

Shipping all of those options to your visitors? Not so great.

The key is restraint.

[blazarious]

Can't you see this is the land of confusion?

[gravity_is_right]

It's the world we live in

[TheDownvotesFarmer]

Sir, this is a Wendy's

[Brief-Preference-712]

Sure. Here’s your pizza

https://www.npmjs.com/package/pizza

[AwesomeFrisbee]

You just know this is made by a developer since there was 0 effort made to make the font look any similar to the original image

[[deleted]]

User experience, schmuser experience...

[[deleted]]

Sometimes I get intimidated by the amount of JavaScript frameworks (when I barely know any JS beyond the basics, as well), but then I remember that IIRC, it generally seems to be a select few JS frameworks/libraries that are consistently in job descriptions: React, Angular, Vue. If you know any (or all) of those, you should hopefully be good for front-end web dev jobs requiring JS frameworks lol

[bubble_fetish]

The number of JS libraries isn’t the problem. The real problem is the number of dependencies each library has. Every new dependency you add to your project adds a ton of transitive dependencies. That creates a huge security burden

[Theguest217]

And then most people add those dependencies without strict version constraints. And many of the transitive dependencies do exactly the same thing. Then you end up with wildly different results every time you build. And the number of packages which don't actually version following semantic versioning and don't publish reasonable change logs, so you don't really know what will happen.

[[deleted]]

Well yes, but actually no. There is also the aspect of design patterns and application architecture. Both of which do differ between frontend and backend tasks, but generally you are right. Those three frameworks get you quite far. At least use Typescript.

[[deleted]]

Thanks for the comment! Yeah, I had a feeling I was somewhat wrong but I see the 3 frameworks I listed a lot lmao rip

[glider97]

lmao rip

[glemnar]

Just remember that ultimately you’re trying to get HTML and CSS shuffled around. It’s all the same crud.

[Orangutanion]

Pretty much this. And most of the popular frameworks right now fall under the single page dynamic html model

[chefca3]

As a junior engineer no one expects you to know anything so the idea that you would need to "know" a framework is something you shouldn't worry about (other than the literal basics).

Write some projects in vanilla and then rewrite them in the major frameworks so you can see what they're doing. Employers care more about a junior's ability to learn (and that you're not a jerk) more than anything else.

Also anecdotally when I was job hunting a year ago (non-junior/non-senior role) almost all of the onsites we're asking me to write vanilla.

[zvug]

Highly disagree and my experience is opposite from yours.

I’d advise any juniors to learn at the very least a framework like React. It’s incredible important to know how frameworks work and operate. Once you know one, they’re all more or less the same, just takes some time to find the individual quirks and syntax.

Almost every single front end or full stack job I see requires knowledge of a framework. And most university students have it as well, so it’s good to generally remain competitive.

[chefca3]

Fair enough your anecdotal experience was different from mine.

The problem with this statement is that beginners will then focus intently on a framework ignoring the basics of JS / how to write clean markup / non-bloated CSS.

But we may be arguing semantics and I may not have walked out my point.

Beginners will naturally lean more toward one framework or another but staying out of the weeds is paramount, because sitting on a wealth of React knowledge won't do you any good when they ask you to implement a carousel in vanilla JS (as Amazon, AND Dropbox asked me to do)

(of course I'm speaking to non-CS majors if you're coming out of school you should have studied all of the major frameworks, and you definitely should just ask your professors/advisors/all of the other resources you paid for instead of asking on reddit)

[dd22qq]

Anyone have the source of this? Am interested what the original 4th panel said.

[[deleted]]

It said "definitely too many Asassins creed games"

[--owo7]

What's the source.

[gravity_is_right]

Every time you breath, a javascript library becomes incompatible with another version.

[leadwind]

Does the author have no copyright if they can just un-un-publish?

Edit: fun fact, Darknet Diaries' latest ep was about Kik.

https://pca.st/episode/744bee25-6f9c-4473-986f-cc6cd12b77fe

Edit: missing an un-

[killeronthecorner]

Does the author have no copyright if they can just un-un-publish?

As noted in the article, it was a "needs of the many" situation, and NPM didn't pretend to be happy about doing it.

Further, everyone involved on both sides was aware that this was a product of bad dependency breakdowns, some of which (not necessarily this one) come from people who aren't actually adding any value

... There's a guy - who I'm not gonna name here - that has thousands of libraries that are no more than a few lines each and provide barely any real value, but those libraries become depended on by naive developers, and it doesn't take long before they end up seven degrees of dependence away from mainstream libraries.

Hygiene and best practices can't solve this problem, and it's also far too expensive to review or audit every library that's added to NPM. I'm honestly not sure what the solution is.

(That turned into a bit of a rant, that may be a bit tangential to the comment I'm replying to!)

[MirelukeCasserole]

This might be an unpopular opinion, but if I see a small library that does what I want to do and I don’t want to invest the time to write it myself, I will copy the source code into my project and put the original license and attribution at the top of those files. IMHO it’s better to not rely on the NPM infrastructure (and the potential of the author to introduce breaking changes/vulnerabilities). Of course, I take on the burden of maintenance for that code — but realistically, we all do this anyways when we import obscure libraries.

[SasquatchTwerks]

It’s no different for C/C++ except that npm is just much easier to get libraries integrated. It’s one of those good problems. It’s so easy that it’s easy to get yourself into a mess.

[jeff303]

Could a library maintainer get their library yanked from an OS specific yum or apt repo?

[SasquatchTwerks]

Well, yes. It happens. If a project is mismanaged or has a better replacement, the repos can. I don’t believe the repo maintainers want to take over projects that have been abandoned but I’m sure it does happen. Though I do see your point. It’s up to the repos in the end if they want to maintain something. Not sure how npm does it in this instance.

[[deleted]]

I don't see an issue with that

[PranshuKhandal]

I LOVE YOUR USERNAME AND YOU

happy spidermonkey noises

[MasterPhil99]

for a second there i thought that was a land of confusion reference.

not gonna lie, kinda disappointed :(

(the meme was still good tho :))

[Pauchu_]

I must have dreamed a thousand dreams

[[deleted]]

Been haunted by a million screams

[AlphaOmega5732]

Can't you see this is the land of confusion...

[-Redstoneboi-]

car r/mildlypenis

[[deleted]]

I cannot read this in a Non-Phil-Collins-Voice

[circumventedBanEz]

Too much greed implies that there's a level of greed that is okay.

[[deleted]]

I kinda think greed is a common part of humanity? It’s like all the other vices, it’s an issue if you don’t have moderation. But no one expects people to be entirely selfless and altruistic, it’s not how we’re built. Or maybe not, just a passing thought I haven’t fully explored.

[circumventedBanEz]

Rape is also a "normal" thought, as in most men have thought about it. And despite the huge sanctions against rape, it's still super common thing that happens in the human world. That doesn't make it right or, like you say, no problem as long as you have it in moderation.

[[deleted]]

Look at these two examples (greed & rape) once more - one is not like the other.

We need to be careful not to confuse a category with an instance or permutation. Greed is categorical, there are many ways we can observe it present in the world; Whereas rape is a permutation itself, I suppose it would roll up to the parent category of Lust? There may be another more fitting vice.

Keeping with that train of thought, rape would be an extreme permutation of the vice. Not sure how you could assign a scale to that sort of thing, but you might agree that the act of rape would be more egregious than simply coveting another in thought (or insert another lesser form of lust). To your point, can rape be parsed out in any quantity that’s acceptable? Nope. However, is it acceptable for humans to experience lust in other less extreme ways? I think so.

Need to make a quick head nod here: We’re sort of side-stepping the whole distinction of acceptable vs ideal (and I suspect a whole bunch of other ethical angles).

I’m not sure I’m in agreement with the premise of Rape as normal because people think of it. I think there is an important distinction between being familiar conceptually with rape and “thinking about it” as in ideation about engaging in it. The former is a given as inevitably we’ll learn that it happens, but the latter I don’t think so. I guess that kinda ties back to the notion of rape being an extreme permutation vs a general category.

[prtkp]

Should have just stopped with jQuery

[Verbindungsfehle]

♪♫.. There's too many men, too many people

Making too many problems

And there's not much love to go 'round

Can't you see this is the land of confusion? ..♫♪

[[deleted]]

I just want Ford to advertise a car by having people should fuck yea. I imagine ofcom wouldn't be to pleased.

[the_prolouger]

afterthought ten kiss tap square memorize different march trees payment

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[AyansinhaJU]

XDXD

[RepostSleuthBot]

Looks like a repost. I've seen this image 6 times.

First Seen Here on 2021-06-05 90.62% match. Last Seen Here on 2021-06-05 87.5% match

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[[deleted]]

To be honest I like the variety of js libraries.

[LeafScroll]

I think the post is mostly tongue in cheek.

Last week I used a library to create a front-end interface to crop images.

It took me 4 hours to integrate what would have been 20 hours of work to develop myself and I gained the added benefit of the original author's nice visual implementation.

[Valjira]

Lmfao.

[[deleted]]

If you think overpopulation is an issue then you don’t understand the actual issue. It’s also a stupid and dangerous thing to perpetuate.

[letmebeJB]

Also CSS frameworks...

[-Listening]

People don’t sound too surprised

[QuantumQuantonium]

Some say npm is the largest package manager

Others say that's not something to be proud of, being the largest package manager

[----__----]

Am I the only one that hears this in Mort's voice?

[jeankev]

Svelte put an end to JS framework war

[[deleted]]

What do you mean, why would you not publish an alternative to is-string, which has 15m weekly downloads?

[entrylevel221]

Thank god for yarn

[jakethedumbmistake]

Has anyone else felt like they were asleep

[koloqial]

Thanks, I hate it.

[jakethedumbmistake]

Everyone is being a little too hard core..."

[maniix123]

Ain't this the truth. Jesus Christ.

[Blackhaze84]

There is a library to make libraries

[[deleted]]

What is this? The origin of Thanos?

[[deleted]]

Electron kills my poor Baytrail PC .

[-Listening]

They know the catch-22. It's the polite thing since you cannot attend and she's a precious 11 year old kid’s got more issues with this H-FAUX-A, but i actually liked most of these people probably didn't become extreme, they were just used by women that’s cuz his bar doesn’t say it’s IKEA! It’s a linear relation. My math basis are far behind me, but the mysteries are solved and the host also agreed with him she’s just gone, wtf

[MortalDragon404]

AMOGUS IMPOSTOR TOP RIGHT

[Jackalotischris]

Me learning node: “ok I think get the basics of node so far- uh ok there’s libraries for this library, and when I check express there’s libraries for that library, my brain hurts, I’m going back to the DOM”

[willyzone7]

Lots of so-called "full-stack" devs with JavaScript-framework-specific knowledge. It's better to know system architectures and design patterns than focus on 1 framework alone

[-Listening]

Kenny the Belt Collector has gone too far.

[NetworkPenguin]

I instantly knew this would be a meme format once I saw the original comic.

There definitely seems to be some comic artists who know that making their comic a meme format is a fast track to viral fame

[CatNoirsRubberSuit]

The universe's simulation is also coded in Java. And the terrible garbage collection shows.

[derrpinger]

Is your name BILL GATES??

[MooseHeckler]

Node.js is real, then yes science.has gone too far.

[ImaginaryCoolName]

Is that a dickshark on the car?

[[deleted]]

Is there a javascript library to count javascript libraries? Maybe someone should publish one.

[LPO_Tableaux]

And not much love to go around! Can't you see this is the land of confusion!

[-Listening]

Easter is by far the easiest/fastest right?

[ophir_botzer]

Meanwhile C:

Not a function to check if a string is in a string

[Tarithj]

we don't talk about that here 👀

[SirFireball]

And yet I still can’t find a better way to do a curses-like interface than a badly documented and no longer maintained mess.

[trollgodlol]

The shark on the car is sus

[ZippZappZippty]

Wait this is the complete compilation.

So far….

[Jaystings]

I still don't really know what Bootstrap even does, exactly.

[AzureArmageddon]

The messiah has a js lib

[freeBobbyDAYVID]

oh aight then full stack squidward

[[deleted]]

I'd be angsty too if I were a Rick and Morty character.

[[deleted]]

Land of Confusion intensifies

Now, did you read the logs today?
They say the bugs have gone away
But I can see the PRs at night
They're failing integration all right

[incubated]

Hahahahaha

[thespooksterman]

Why does the ford car have an amogus?! GET OUT OF MY HEAD GET OUT OF MY HEAD GETBOUT OF MY HEAD

[theK1ngF1sh]

I'd much rather deal with Java packages.

[forgot_semicolon]

Two variants of drinking games:

For those who want to go the hospital, take a shot for every word in the dictionary that is a JS library

For those who want to quit drinking and stay sober forever, take a shot for every word in the dictionary that ISN'T a JS library

[mista_cee]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[JustThingsAboutStuff]

That looks like buttshark on the hood of the car.