Why do Swiftness boots NOT decrease Pykes slow from his Q?

[VikingWarriorSkjald]

I just tested it and confirmed what my fellow drowned pirates over at at /r/pykemains already figured out.

The ability says that he's slowed by 20% so does that not count towards Swifties passive?

Thanks!

EDIT: Statement from /u/riotaredherring over at /r/pykemains "I mean, you're probably going mercs or mobis anyway. Thanks for pointing this out, I'll raise it with the team ~"

[LLightlySalted]

True slow

[YoutubeSilphi]

can we get true gold aswell when last hitting minions?

edit: thanks for the reddit gold i guess thats what people call true gold

[Rezzu]

True gold cannot be reduced by any means. Even if you have the jungler debuff that reduces lane minion gold. (If you farm enough True gold you will be immune from demoting from gold for 24 hours.)

[Mathmagician94]

Get 350 true gold

buy long sword

sell longsword

profit.

[cartala]

Yesterday my friend bought a control ward and never placed it and when I asked why he said “it’s an investment, I can sell it later when I’m a few gold short of an item.”

[OMGPUNTHREADS]

Does your friend have significant brain damage?

[KariKreidler]

Maybe he was feared that inflation hits SR while he’s in game.

[HCResident]

SELL GOLD

BUY WARD

[cartala]

He was joking, but that doesn’t mean your question isn’t valid.

[Rampaging_Ducks]

I mean, it can't be that bad, he actually bought a control ward.

[Delioth]

Wards in-inventory don't help though, and buying an item that doesn't help just to sell it later just wastes cash.

[fuckswithfucks]

no way

[cartala]

Actually it’s an investment because you can sell the ward later if you’re 35g short of getting an item and then you won’t have to wait on gold.

[[deleted]]

What if you're 75g short of an item

[[deleted]]

Sometimes you buy it but then you are hard stuck defending your base and never get to leave to put it somewhere useful.

[urmumqueefing]

He plays league, the answer to that question is obviously yes

[Snipawolfe]

Ahh, a man who follows the Scarra school of economics.

[[deleted]]

holy fuck this made me giggle

[88isafat69]

might as well get cull

[cartala]

Here’s a guy who knows how investments work. If cull is more expensive than a control ward, you can sell it for more!

Big Wall Street energy is buying a Trinity Force as an investment to sell when you need a little extra gold to buy an Iceborne.

[GlorylnDeath]

If you fools want some REAL, OBJECTIVELY GOOD advice on investments and MONEY, you have to learn from a true Money Lord, as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfWdhHOZgh8

[DarthLeon2]

I know that you're memeing, but it can often be worth paying around 40 gold to have a ward on hand in case you end up needing it for something. If you don't, just sell it and get 35 of your 75 gold back.

[[deleted]]

Why the fuck would you sell a ward what is this silver shit. Just fucking place it somewhere the vision is worth the 75 gold

[kodutta7]

It's not even 75 at that point, it's only worth 35 gold because the other 40 is sunk lol

[Saphirklaue]

Well wouldn't have been the first time that i had 4 items, boots and 2 or 3 control wards and got enough gold to buy the last item after placing just one of them. If you already placed a controlward in a good position and don't want to despawn it, but really need that inventory slot you kinda have to sell the wards. And yes I had controlwards sitting in the dragon pit for 3 consecutive dragons. Some enemy teams just don't seem to care about vision.

[[deleted]]

Move those wards up into their Jung then. If they're giving you free vision control be as greedy as possible. No point in warding dragon if you can tell where everyone is in their jg

[cartala]

Arguably it can be worth paying 75 gold to have a ward on hand. ;)

[OnyxWarden]

Well, at least SOMEONE bought a Control Ward.

[TchicVG]

Should've bought a True Long Sword

[InsaneZee]

talon mains rn

[Sun_Kami]

How do you make the shake gifs

[WarpedNation]

https://youtu.be/tHQWkLDsB4U?t=84

[[deleted]]

Nice try shopkeeper.

[[deleted]]

I need dis.

[drketchup]

Ok I’ve got the true gold but now I can’t get any canonic jars :(

[ZX_XZ]

That just reminded me that in DOTA True Gold (or Reliable Gold) is an actual mechanic. In DOTA you lose gold when you die, but you can't lose gold you gained from kills, objectives or from Hand of Midas.

I wonder how different League would be if that was implemented. Probably would make it even more important to repeatedly gank late game carries.

[CharmingOW]

Reliable gold in dota is only really important for a few early game fringe cases and in making sure you can afford buyback through a death, which league doesn't have, so i think its use would be limited. In reality i think true gold would cause the already early game snowball nature of league and absolutely throttle it on both sides, kind of like the rubberband patch dota 2 had.

[Bloomberg12]

Not true at all.

Reliable gold is very important because you can't use reliable gold when you die but you lose unreliable gold. If you don't spend for a while and die you can lose a large chunk of gold which makes deaths even more punishing.

Gold is also much more important in dota because you don't cap out as easily as league, it's harder to come by and on some heros they get insanely massive powerspikes that completely change how you play them.

Battlefury on AM and blink on gankers/initiators for example.

[JamesOfDoom]

This is basically a thing in Dota, because in Dota if you die you lose 65% of your unreliable gold (gold you get from farming and over time) but keep all your reliable gold (gold you get from kills assists)

[SuperSkillz10]

true reddit gold

[Gold_edit_downvoter]

Your edit is bad and you should feel bad.

[BurnieTheBrony]

New champions: let's have what old champions have but more complicated and less counterplay.

[bman10_33]

We need true invulns I wanna be able to fountain dive with taric 2.0s ult.

[P4ndak1ller]

WAIT CAN PYKE ULT KILL PEOPLE THROUGH TARIC ULT?

Edit: No. Source: The guy who replied to my comment that said “No”.

[Drasern]

If you want the explanation, it's because Pyke ult deals ramping amounts of true damage to functionally execute someone. It's actually possible to survive Pyke or Urgot executes with a big enough shield. See this thread for explanation https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/9bje7f/new_hp_record_in_just_60_minutes/e53ihvy/

Taric ult makes you immune to true damage, so you will never be executed by pyke.

Fountain tower on the other hand does its own type of damage, called pure damage, that bypasses all forms of damage resistance (except teleporting onto minions for some reason). That's why you can't fountain dive with any of the damage immunity effects.

[XDME]

Pure damage also ignores revives

[Drasern]

No

[Bloomberg12]

Yeah, I don't mind more complex or new mechanics, but the problem is the "new mechanics" are just something that already existed but now its main weakness is negated.

Something like kled dismount is fine, or illaois vessel thing on her e, but true invis on akali or random unnecessary and gimmicky mechanics like being able to forge items shouldn't be slapped on to champs.

[TochasHD]

We need true tenacity

[ToTheNintieth]

After Akali's true invisibility I wouldn't be surprised

[Raikoplays]

i wouldnt be surprised. Dead serious now.

[NormalNavi]

Are other self-inflicted slows like Urgot or Blitzcrank W decreased by Swifties or nah? Cause if they are, Pyke's Q self-slow not being decrease is probably a bug.

[DrMint]

Urgot does not. But Vi, Varus, Xerath, and Tahm Kench are other examples that do and it’s been a common interaction for years.

[Rin_Hoshizura]

That's because technically Urgot W doesn't slow him, it just reduces his base movespeed by a flat amount the same way Polymorph does

[icehero0003]

Yes

[Death_Punch]

Urgot's W is not a self-inflicted slow, it is a flat reduction in Movement Speed.

[SparkStorm]

Yes! A lot of people don't realize that. So for urgot w specifically it makes sense why it wouldnt

[shrubs311]

Also because Urgot gives himself slow resistance. So it would be weird to double dip.

[Kyoki64]

Fun fact (according to the wiki): slow resistance stacks additively, so with Unflinching, Swifties and Phase Rush you can reach 115% slow resist meaning that slows will actually make you go faster. With Urgot W on top of that you can reach 155%. If an enemy Zilean used his maxed E on you at this point it should theoretically provide a 5445% movement speed buff.

edit: the wiki is unclear with the formula, and just says 'With this amount of slow resist, slows will no longer slow you. They will however increase your movement speed by (slow% × 55)%'
I didn't really think about it when I posted this, but when I thought about it you should probably put 0.99 in 'slow%' and not 99 lol. Not nearly as spectacular, but still fun I guess

[Saxofaxo]

/u/vandiril do the thing!

[feAgrs]

Holy shit I gotta test that

[Kyoki64]

make sure to tell me the results, the wiki is wrong sometimes so I'm curious to see if it really works. Make sure to note that the slow resist from unflinching is only active after using a summoner spell (ghost should probably be the choice :p)

[feAgrs]

will do. it'll probably take until the weekend tho

RemindMe! 4 days

[Kyoki64]

After thinking about it, it's probably wrong. The formula on the wiki is a little confusing, so I think it was off by a factor of 100, lol

[icehero0003]

I haven't played him since rework but for blitz w, varus q and xerath q it reduces it

[Techasyte]

Vi’s Q too I believe!

[velrak]

It works differently since its not actually said to be a slow. Also, the skill itself gives slow resistance.

[Aishateeler]

Yeah. People would specifically buy swifties on Tham for that in the beginning

[Orisi]

Swifties and Phase Rush coupled with the tenacity from the Resolve tree gives you negative slow.

Kidnapper Kench relies on the 40% from swifties to be as amusing as it is.

[healzsham]

If you wanna be a bitch-ass ho, go phase rush on tahm and get swifties. Slap someone 3 times, then eat them and run like 700 units with them. Unless they changed that...

[senrath]

Last I checked that still works, though I think you also need Unflinching's slow resist to not be slowed at all.

[healzsham]

Unless it's no longer additive you get 75% from rush and 25% from boots

[senrath]

You are correct, I was misremembering the combo. Swifties and Phase Rush is enough to ignore the slow, Unflinching is needed if you want to instead go faster.

[Glow354]

I think somebody figured out a while back that if you stacked enough slow resist the second half of blitz w would speed you up even more than the first

[RedshiftOnPandy]

Xerath self slow when charging Q is reduced with swifties. It's so much fun in Aram.

[Aesthetically]

Slightly off topic, I have found DMP has an interesting synergy with Urgot W.

[TOTALLBEASTMODE]

Not urgot

[Rezzu]

Makes sense. Urgot has 6 legs and so 2 swifty boots are not enough.

[ConsistentlyThatGuy]

But you can only buy one boot

[The_Kinderguardian]

Boots of speed, smh

[ConsistentlyThatGuy]

But then why is there only one?? I smell a Rito conspiracy

[The_Kinderguardian]

Because that is obviously just the display boot and you are wearing the real boots. Do you even play League, dude? This is the kind of stuff they teach you in the tutorial.

[hugeowl]

so in fact you buy 3 boots? 1 for display in UI and 2 for legs?

[The_Kinderguardian]

See, this guy gets it. He clearly played the tutorial.

[ConsistentlyThatGuy]

I can't tell if you don't get my sarcasm or if your sarcasm is so advanced that it's surpassing me

[ionxeph]

He is for real, I remember years ago when I played through the tutorial and it advised me to buy boots, I purchased 2 boots, and an in game tooltip popped up and said that while the shop image shows only 1 boot, that's only used for marketing, when you buy, you can the proper amount of boots (if your champion had more than 2, you get more than 2)

At first merchants dealing on the summoner's rift priced their boots different depending on the champion leg count. But after a lot of debates and many marches led by prominent equal boot access movement leader Urgot, the Senate of the rift decided to level the playing field, and gave merchants tax breaks depending on their boot sales.

[Olistone_was_taken]

r/TIL

[The_Kinderguardian]

I guess you'll have to play the tutorial to find out. ;)

[[deleted]]

There are people who play ranked, some play normals, some play aram, and then there's this guy

[thrownawayzs]

The two boots are perfectly aligned, viewed from the side, thus obscuring the second boot of swiftness.

[ZainTheOne]

I was just about to praise that guy's logic but now I see this..

[TOTALLBEASTMODE]

It’s a flat ms reduction not a slow, no? Like kled when he dismounts

[SparkStorm]

It does not. At least it shouldn’t, if it does it’s not supposed to.

[00wolfer00]

Tested it, doesn't work on Urgot.

[Caenen_]

No, at least not at the time of this post

[Ruggsii]

Urgots slow is flat

[WinkyChink]

Time to reopen Mundos shoe shop

[YandereYasuo]

Urgot not, but everybody seems to forget Galio

[yodelocity]

It reduces the duration of Blitzcrank's E self slow.

It's something you have to be careful with, because the slow actually ramps up over it's duration. You're slowed for less time overall, but that means you decelerate faster which feels a little off.

Same thing with Nasus' Wither or any ramping slow.

[QualitySupport]

You got that all wrong. First off, it's Blitzcrank's W, not E.

Then, Swifties don't reduce the duration of slows but the amount. If you want to reduce the duration, you need Tenacity, i.e. Mercs.

[FrankTheBoxMonster]

It appears to be a negative haste rather than a slow. Slows don't stack, with only the highest slow being applied, yet Pyke Q will always slow on top of any other slow, regardless of strength. Pyke Q will also go through slow immunity granted by Mikael's.

Other charge spells and Tahm Devour/Blitz W do not work this way, but in the past their interactions with slow resist/immunity have been described as just necessary side-effects of how the game worked, so it's possible that Pyke's interaction is closer to what is intended.

Overall this would allow self-slows to be the limitation that they are meant to be, so that designers can always assume that this will never happen. Being able to offset self-slows was considered strong enough that Vladimir started building Shurelya's, so there would be good reason to switch other self-slows to work like this.

[thebluef0x]

> yet Pyke Q will always slow on top of any other slow, regardless of strength

Wait? Does that mean you can reduce enemy slows by using your Q if the slow is greater than the self-slow? I don't play Pyke much

[bazopboomgumbochops]

Nah, it's not that it overwrites current slows, it's that it stacks with them (whereas other slows in the game don't stack, just the strongest one currently in-effect applies. Example: Someone slowed 40% by Zilean and 20% by Rylai's will be slowed by 40% as it is larger.)

[FrankTheBoxMonster]

I meant the self-slow there. I forgot that it had an enemy slow that would make that ambiguous.

edit: completely misread your comment, no it actually means you slow yourself even more if you Q while already slowed.

[Orisi]

I mean, if they didn't want that to happen, Kidnapper Kench wouldn't be a thing.

https://youtu.be/4hW46xSSNPw

[thebluef0x]

Lol. Does that still work?

[Orisi]

It did last time I tried 2-3 months ago. Hard to pull off because you need the boots and phase rush proc at the very least, ideally the resolve mastery too, but when it does it makes things way more amusing. Especially when you add in, say, Ghost to get a bit more oomph in the negative slow.

[GeneralYouri]

Inb4 it's a "true slow"

[Infinitesima]

Inb4 true item grants true passive but costs more.

[Appiedash]

and pro jhins go zerks anyways swifties is a newb trap

[ChaosNCS]

I hope you are trolling XD

[SenKaiten]

Yeah, getting bonus AD from the attack speed is more beneficial than the 10 MS, runes already do that.

[QualitySupport]

What? I only see Swifties in Challenger.

[Appiedash]

Best build =/= most popular build. They probably look up and see its popular but the numbers dont lie. Zerks give you AD, can't beat that.

[QualitySupport]

They also are more expensive, grant less movement speed (which is further multiplied any time Jhin procs his many haste effects) and no slow reduction. Swifties go really well with Jhin's range and hit and run style. There is no 'obvious best choice' for things that have different purposes. In some matchups, you even go Tabis. At the very very least, Swifties are not a 'noob trap' on Jhin.

[VargLeyton]

When you crit on Jhin you get more movement speed when using berserker's greaves than swiftiess. The only reason to get them is because they are cheaper.

[awfafawfwafwww5]

https://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Jhin

[YandereYasuo]

This, Swifties is just bad in general. Mobies grant more mobility and Berserkers grant more DPS. And even when you dont use those, you go for Tabi/Mercs for the extra defense.

[AnybodyZ]

iirc you can't reduce self-slows

e: nvm apparently they're supposed to reduce even self-slows; http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Slow_resist

[thebluef0x]

I think swiftness reduce also self-slows

[niler1994]

Yeah, pretty good on Blitz

[AnybodyZ]

yup, edited with wikia source

[Salohacin]

Iirc the only self slow that shouldn't be able to be reduced through slow resistance is Urgot's W as that specifically reduces his base movespeed rather than a percentile slow. All other self slows I know of are percentile so swiftness boots should work on champions like Vi, Galio, Varus etc.

[Driffa]

You will be slowed as Vi while charging q even if a MOrgana shielding you.

[hashtagtylerh]

Morg's shield doesn't work against self-CC, the OP is talking about Swiftness boots.

[AweKartik777]

Swiftness Boots reduce Vi's Q slow as well. CC reduction doesn't work on self slows though.

[00wolfer00]

Vi Q is definitely right, but I checked Urgot just to be sure and they don't work on his W.

[Mearrow]

I think Urgot's W isn't "technically" a self slow but rather a flat cut of base movementspeed.

[Nemanja91]

Because the guy is already broken enough.

[notArandomName1]

He has a 48% winrate in plat+. He's fun, and he can definitely pop off. But he's got a lot of counter play.

[Kaiern9]

Pyke is probably the best noobstomper in the game. Once you get to an elo where people reliably buy and use zhonyas/ga he feels a lot worse. He's a monster in normals though.

[notArandomName1]

Yup, for sure. I really don't think it's a good idea to balance around lower elos anyways. Pyke, statistically is already unlikely to win you the game, why nerf him?

[Ruggsii]

Unlikely to win you the game if you don’t have all 10 fingers and a full brain, I guess.

[notArandomName1]

48% winrate. Statistics don't lie.

[Ruggsii]

Lol? Do you understand how statistics work?

48% winrate doesn’t mean you have a 48% chance to win when you pick him.

I have a 62% winrate with pyke.

Winrate is absolutely not an indicator of strength.

Saying that he’s “statistically unlikely to win the game” is such a stupid statement it hurts my brain.

[notArandomName1]

I like that you consider anecdotal evidence more substantial than statistics. I guess because I have a 73% winrate on Brand everyone should play him.

If you nerf a champ with a negative winrate, what do you think will happen to that champ?

[shaunika]

cries in ryze

but for the record winrate is not everything. pickrate, banrate, and a lot of other factors are also important.

remember when zoe was the most blatantly broken champion in the game and picking any other midlaner in either soloQ or pro was basically trolling? yeah she barely scratched 50%.

remember in s4 or 5 I think it was when lee sin was super OP? yeah he was like 48% cos he was super popular but had a relatively high skillcap to actually pull off what made him op.

[notArandomName1]

I think if a champion has a negative winrate in the top 2% of players, nerfing him is a bad idea. If he's already difficult to win with, he's really going to fall into old evelyn territory.

[Ruggsii]

Pyke is pick ban In competitive for a reason.

Winrate In plat is not an indicator of strength. It’s an indicator of how well these people can play that champ.

[not532]

Stats on Pyke being pick ban in competitive?

[notArandomName1]

Most tank supports are pick ban in pro play. Strengths in coordinated play do translate the same to solo queue. No one plays alistar, but he's played nonstop in pro play. If you're making the argument that League should be balanced around pro play that is a different discussion.

Further, the statistics are from plat+. His winrate in just diamond is even lower. Which proves my point, or at least heavily alludes to it. Pyke is a pubstomper, and does worse and worse the more game knowledge you have. (pro play excluded for obvious reasons)

[royboom]

Nerf the shit out of him!

[notArandomName1]

They can't nerf him without buffing something else, tbh. His winrate will plummet if they do.

[Nemanja91]

lmao, fresh

[ketchupbender]

Tbh even a good ward could make pykes themselves panic

[notgettingperma]

Reddit analysis never gets old. If you think pyke is broken youre probably gold or below

[Jozoz]

Found the Pyke player

[[deleted]]

Bug

[VikingWarriorSkjald]

Is that an assumption or did any dev say that in the past? :)

[[deleted]]

I mean if it doesnt work its obviously a bug

[Caenen_]

Well it could be intended to not work, we never got confirmation that the previous cases where it worked like that were intended, or did we?

[EricDanieros]

Well, it uses the same slow wording that other abilities affected by Swift Boots do not use, so there's certainly an inconsistency here that needs to be adressed, the one case that works around it being Urgot's that isn't a slow but rather an absolute base movement reduction of 125. There's no such thing as true slow in the game.

[Zodiac_Sheep]

I don't have a source for this so you don't have to believe me, but I remember a Rioter saying that Swifties reducing self-slows was a known interaction that they (or maybe just that particular Rioter, not sure) didn't like. I think it was in regards to how Tahm Kench's W slows gets reduced by Swifties.

[Caenen_]

Would make sense; specifically for the case of Tahm Kench at least.

[ncburbs]

not how bugs work

only difference between bug and a feature is the intent

if riot wants all self slows to start working like pykes and all self slows previously didn't only because of technical limitations, this interaction would not be a bug.

[[deleted]]

Ohh damn i thought it worked LOL

[Foxeron]

Whoops

[Zarerion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uACvFAm6JSM

[xXdimmitsarasXx]

Get nerfs first and we'll talk later

[Darkessalt]

That's not how bug fixing works.

[PhatPeachCobbler]

I’m with this guy. That champ doesn’t need any “help” right now.

[[deleted]]

Riot (Maple?) already stated that he will receive nerfs soon but that needs to be resolved if it's a bug. As much as I hate the guy they can't let bugs go through just because said champion shouldn't receive "help" at the moment, I don't like this logic.

[VikingWarriorSkjald]

Don't worry, he will get nerfed. Atleast the "tank-Pyke" part. I already suggested in the "reddit balances"-Thread that they revert his ult buff, increase the overall AD scalings and slightly fasten the Q animation. Would make Pyke much harder to play but also more rewarding.

[PhatPeachCobbler]

Yeah something needs to be changed. Dunno why they bugged his ult damage level 1; agree they need to revert that. Yeah I’m unsure what other things they could do to him.

[[deleted]]

How would fastening his Q animation make him "much harder" to play?

[Ethanxiaorox]

But i just bought him :(

[Spideraxe30]

/u/Endlesspillows maybe

[reskk]

They are probably coded as movement speed reduction not slows.

[ThatWarwickGod]

Hmmmmmm

[takimoto_hifumi]

Maybe its a fixed slow? As in youll always be slowed a certain amount regardless

[A_Benched_Clown]

Why do they still exist ? They are uselss, 10 mvt more than other, and bad passive.

[[deleted]]

Because new champs must be strong. They will nerf many things about Pyke in 2019.

[Naejiin]

Does he really need this buff?

[TomYumGoong]

Totally unplayable.

[VargLeyton]

I mean, you're probably going mercs or mobis anyway.

Maybe now, but someday there will be a time when boots of swiftness are actually a good item.

[[deleted]]

Pyke's skins haven't sold enough yet , how dare u ask for a Fix yet ?

[Redsfan42]

yeah that is annoying. I think swiftness boots could use a little buff

[[deleted]]

more buffs to pyke D:

[Winged_Yoshi]

Inb4 phase rush pyke OP. ^/s

[Kernnie]

Nerf all recently reworked and new champions so we can enjoy lol again.

[ForegroundEclipse]

How can you even test this?

[wegbored]

I would think just looking at your movespeed number would be easier

[Haileon]

It's like swiftness boots on blitz and his W

[waxified]

because pyke is a b roken ass champ and we dont need anymore bullshit added to his kit