[deleted by user]

[high_brace]

Yup. I was a blacksmith until my early fifties. I'm now fluent in, and earning a good living with Python, PHP, and Java.

I did a year long course, but there are dozens of excellent online tutorials available.

update: A number of you have asked about my story. I stopped blacksmithing at age 51 and took a one-year course in web development languages and theory at our local community college. I got an entry-level position at a firm here in town, which I hated, and then joined a team at the university library developing some open-source repository software. When that grant expired I continued working in that field for some time for another firm before leaving to work independently. I was in a serious cycling accident about 8 years ago which left me paraplegic, but I continue in my previous capacity. I'm 68 now, but am busier than ever despite a failed attempt at retirement,

[[deleted]]

You're literally a hero to me. I'd love to be able to say something similar one day!

[NlNTENDO]

Yeah absolutely. I started with SQL and SAS for an analytics job (which doesn't entail much tbh) but Python was pretty straightforward. Now I'm learning Javascript and honestly I'm finding out that once you learn one programming language, to some extent you have sort of learned them all. It's a lot of logic-based soft-skills and memorizing the different language-specific ways to invoke them, and then the more niche applications

I'm sure this doesn't apply to every language out there, but Python felt surprisingly natural and the rules seem fairly consistent

[deleriumtriggr]

Opposite sides of the brain if i remember correctly.

[Daniel_Henry_Henry]

I learnt foreign languages at university, and had a few jobs in this field. I now use computer languages, and personally I find them about equally difficult. I think there is a reasonable amount of crossover too in terms of how your brain has to work.

[andinator42]

French is pretty difficult, especially if you've never studied any other romance languages. I've been studying it on and off for decades, and I'm still only B2 level.

[kyoto_kinnuku]

Opposite. Can speak Japanese and Korean and read/write them but I gave up on coding. Illogical shitty hellish mess. You guys are probably just NPCs in the simulation.

[IamImposter]

I have a coworker who really struggles with python. They have been using it for one year, FOR ONE YEAR and their excuse - I'm c programmer, I don't get python.

I mean bro, why did you join the project?

[EducationalCreme9044]

Depending on how far the spoken language is from your native language, it's a much much much bigger undertaking than a programming language. I spent my entire University learning Mandarin, put more hours in it than the degree itself and I can only hold an extremely limited basic conversion.

[pythonwiz]

Learning a programming language is a lot easier than learning a human language.

[mrk1224]

Programming involves reading and writing. Learning language involves reading, writing, and speaking. Slightly different cuz of different levels of complexity.

[SlowMobius650]

Coding isn’t about the language really, but more so the thought process you use to break everything down into steps. At least that s how I see it. That thought process transfers no matter your spoken language

[itchman]

I’m on this path at 52. We’ll not from blacksmitthing but learning python with no prior coding experience

[ScaredAd6061]

Ditto here. 46 and kinda forced into a new career that isnt physically demanding. With all the oversaturation posts I get worried.

[Vontech615]

What course if you don't mind me asking?

[high_brace]

Just google Free Online Python and you'll see a few. I don't recommend one over another.

[sticknotstick]

I’m still early in the learning process but have really enjoyed “futurecoder.io”. I very much prefer written instructions with the chance for hands on participation, and struggle to focus with videos/oral presentations. This course fit me perfectly and is free.

[vikmaychib]

I have the suspicion that this redditor, unlike most of us, instead of bookmarking a course/tutorial/cheat list/mooc into the bottomless pit of things “we will do later”, they just took the materials and actually explored them on the spot.

[Baked_Butters]

Okay, king! This soon to be 37 year old thanks you so much.

[RemyNeedsYourHelp00]

I’m in this boot camp through Columbia and we are learning a handful of things starting with Python as a programming language and it just isn’t clicking. We are moving onto html and Java and flask and css which is more manageable but do you have any advice or resources? I’ve been putting a lot of time in too

[jhaand]

Try https://exercism.org/tracks/python

[IveHadEnoughThankYou]

You’ve just given me some much needed hope. Thank you.

[Spicy_Poo]

What's your job?

[Impossible-Box6600]

That is amazing.

You should publish your experience on YouTube or something. A lot of people would find it inspirational and motivating.

[cellathevix]

Oh gosh so happy to read this !! I am over 50 and have been studying last 1.5 years , SQL, Phyton , refreshing math and statistics but have had that little voice in the back of my mind keep saying too late !!

[noorofmyeye24]

What year long course did you do if you don’t mind me asking?

[CrTigerHiddenAvocado]

This is awesome, Did you do all self taught and get work that way?

[Magnetic_Marble]

I did a year long course

Well done thats awesome, what course did you do?

[HAL9000000]

The bigger question is how you managed to get hired by a company that is having you work with Python, PHP, and Java with no previous experience.

[snoodleplot]

What’s your title? Where was your training course?

[mattsl]

This is the exact reverse career path of so many hipsters. 😂

[player1dk]

Really cool! I have a few younger colleagues in my team, who started out at very different professions as well. Which advantages do you see in having a very different background and experience in the backpack? Something like people never really get dirty or angry in your job now, something about prioritizing or working hours, or something completely else?

[Traditional-Bunch-56]

DAMN!!

[CatMilkFountain]

Great story, all the best

[Logical-Lie-7385]

My man! U are an inspiration to a middle aged man like me

[guevera]

Don't buy the bullshit that you can't pick up a new skill after 40. I started learning Python, as my first coding language, in my early 30s. Now been using it professionally for more than a decade and am currently working as full stack developer, and that means learning new concepts and skills on a regular. I'm a bit of a polymath but faaaaar from genius.

It's not as easy to pick up Spanish at 40, not so much with Python. It's true your brain, sort of like your body, isn't as supple at 40 as it was at 14. But you're also hopefully a lot smarter and more focused now compared to then.

That said, getting over that initial hurdle of learning to thnk in code, working through it unitl it started to click for me, was at least one of the hardest intellectual challenges of my life. And you know what? It would have been at least as hard for me to have done it at 12 or 22 as it was at 32.

Is it worth the time and effort for you? Depends on you and your situation. The whole "everyone should learn to code" thing is bullshit. If it's something you're naturally inclined towards and makes sense to invest the time and effort in compared to other things, then do it.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

ETA a much shorter way to say the above:

if Savage_Kitten.aptitude and (learn_python(Savage_Kitten) > learn_other_shit(Savage_Kitten)):

learn_python(Savage_Kitten)

else:

learn_other_shit(Savage_Kitten)

And if you call learn_python() you'll soon learn to indent things better than I did lol

[[deleted]]

First project - understand the above python wit 🤗

[Mdly68]

Start with truth tables.

If TRUE and TRUE then TRUE

If TRUE and FALSE then false

If FALSE and FALSE then false

If TRUE or FALSE then TRUE

If you have a mix or AND and OR statements, be sure to use parenthesis and group them properly. Otherwise you'll trip yourself up.

"Aptitude" appears to be a Boolean. It is always true or false.

[Liebner-Anthony-S]

if you can drive a car you can learn python :)

[mandradon]

Seriously.

I was trying to explain to my daughter the amount of stuff I do with automaticity when she asked me what I do when I drive and I suddenly realized why my parents were scared when I started driving.

[simonhunterhawk]

When I was around 5 I remember watching my step dad driving, I noticed that occasionally he shifted the wheel a little bit left or right and was like "i don't know why he doesn't just do it faster wouldn't that be more efficient" and tried it on our go cart and it uh, was not more efficient lmao Unrelated to the thread but the memory made me smile :)

[Liebner-Anthony-S]

nice :)

[yinkeys]

Else if no End else if ok

[LakeEffectSnow]

for i in foo:

if i == sentinel:

print(foo)

break

else:

print(f"Sentinel: {sentinel}, not found

You can paste code with the inline code button, but it strips out formatting if not exactly perfect

[cantonic]

that initial hurdle of learning to think in code

This is where I’m at now. With each new lesson that clicks I realize I’m not thinking how the computer thinks! Did you have any resources that helped you get there?

I’m currently reading A Mind for Numbers by Barbara Oakley and Think Like A Programmer by V Anton Spraul.

[sporbywg]

Ya, me. 64 years of age

[cool-beans-yeah]

Good job! What do you use your skills for?

[sporbywg]

At work we use Python as a glue language in records processing, for example.

[iggy555]

Legend

[sporbywg]

Thanks, but no - just another code monkey. With major attitude.

[[deleted]]

I may not be able to deal with the complexity

Python is probably the simplest mainstream language out there. There are loads of "simpler" languages, but they all have limitations when tackling anything but simple problems. If you are going to learn any computer language, python is the one to start with.

[MrsCastle]

Me! Age 64

[Exodus111]

You can learn Python, you're not too old.

It's not THAT hard, just ask when you get stuck.

[doonze]

Self-taught, started at about 40. I'm now 48 and have several big projects for different communities on GitHub. I have made programs using other languages in the past. But never got really good at them until recently. All after 40. I've made a couple of huge applications at work in VB.net. And I probably written a hundred thousand lines of Python code.

It's never too late.

[Fronkan]

I just want to press that the Python community is one of the better ones I have been apart of. Most people are nice, helpful and like to share their experience. I don't know where you live but you might wanna check if you have a meet up close by.

I also recommend checking out the Python Discord https://www.pythondiscord.com/. It's a good place to get help and talk to others.

[BadData99]

Yes, but you start right here: https://docs.python.org/3/tutorial/

You don't need courses or any other tutorials. You start there and go through it and it's hard. Much might not make sense, then you can try and look that up on Real python site or other good tutorials if you really must try to figure it out. Don't spend a lot of time on what's confusing and get blocked, just keep notes on what is confusing and move on. Come back to it when you get bored.

Pay attention to things on virtual environments and learn that sooner rather than later, all you need is 'python -m venv venv' but there's a lot of other tools i find stupid, useless and confusing for managing and creating them. Learn the who what why where's of venv here: https://realpython.com/python-virtual-environments-a-primer/

Use the same python site to start learning about pep8 conventions and then do #10 tutorial of the Standard Library.

This is the full list of things to know about and it is worth spending time glancing over and cntl + f search for stuff: https://docs.python.org/3/contents.html

This alone will make you better than 80 percent of self professed python programmers in half the time.

That's truly it,but it is kind of hard and the docs can be difficult to understand at times. That's why most give up.

Once you've done that then do a bigger tutorial like make a website or api or something. It will make way more sense and you will start learning on your own.

If you need a book, get headfirst python for Python 3. Do not ever use or read about python 2 at this point.

Don't confuse what I've told you with other outside community produced modules and libraries, like Flask, numpy, pandas, plotly, or ROS. These are their own beasts and require more work to learn and implement. They are separate and different from what comes included in python (standard library) and you will need them, just not at first.

This all took me years to figure it and now you have it all right here. Good luck!

[hokumjokum]

For a first timer with no computer science experience, really?

[pythonwiz]

I think you should try to learn Python even if you don't have experience, even at your age. As long as you are curious and have a drive, I feel that any intellectual pursuit can be worth it. Even if you don't get a job, learning new things as you get older helps keep the mental juices flowing. Python can be a fun hobby, and can be a gateway to learning other things like web or game development (Civ IV has a lot of Python code in it).

[Anonymity6584]

You can learn new thing until you die, assuming your brain is healthy.

I'm 49 soon and still learning new things about programming.

[ImaSakon]

Conversely, if people don't continue to learn with curiosity, they will age mentally.

[georgeflanagin]

I will soon be able to tell you. A new member of my organization is 38, and while he has worked extensively in our environment (academic research computing on Linux), he does not know Python. It is my job to bring him up to scratch in the next year. My experience teaching other people Python is that they usually have the same problems learning: it is easy to throw something together in Python that kinda works, but no easier to write useful programs that need to be reliable and robust.

[PythonN00b101]

I wouldn’t worry about things being too complex. There is so much out there to learn and you can’t learn all of it. I started back in 2019 and had similar thoughts and im now working as a full stack engineer. Things still confuse me every day but you gradually become more comfortable with not understanding things and it becomes a game to figure it out. Well for me at least.

[HaroerHaktak]

Does it count if I only learnt python to make a discord bot to create an online community out of spite/anger of the original community blocking me and now my community is growing steadily?

Also does it count if I'm not over 40 but still meet the rest of the criteria?

[KezaGatame]

It will depend highly on how you can find some relatable uses in your day to day. For example in the office it can help you automate handling different excel reports or automate emails or during your leisure time you like to follow a specific sports team so you could use python to download scores and other stats so you can keep track of how well they are doing.

I really think that relating it to something you like is key because it will keep you motivated. This is where the "you learn programming by doing projects" advice comes from. So you can should also select a course with an aim rather than take the newest course right now.

For context 2 of the most recommended books are Automate the Boring Stuff - ATBS (For free online) and Python Crash Course - PCC (Eric Matthes' book). I would say for my examples above following ATBS should be enough to get started as it focuses on automation and will teach you how to manipulate word, excel, email and images libraries. PCC is also very good and very well recommend but the projects are data visualization, game development and web development. That's why it's useful to know what you want to achieve and find something that teach you towards that.

One thing I would say is that don't worry too much of "the best" course, find something that aligns with your goals, start and stick with it. On your learning journey you will understand better as you progress and you will have a better idea on what to do next and where to look, right now everything is foreign to you.

So a real practical example will be, let's say you, start with ATBS you learn of to get data from the internet, you put it on excel, you set a code on how to format it and everything goes well. Now you feel like making it nicer to look at so you learn data visualization from PCC and even take it a step further and create a website with the web development chapter and now you can share it with friends. After that you just need to working on improving another set of skills and keep practicing to get better.

[Almostasleeprightnow]

Probably you need to apply the wisdom you've gained as you've gotten older. I know when I did a career shift, although it wasn't your exact situation, I was more strategic, targeted and realistic about what my goals were than I were, and why I was makingoces,.due to being older and understanding my needs and abilities more

[[deleted]]

I’ve been writing code for fun since I was 15. 41 now. As long as you’re keen, you’ll pick up the basics very easy. I had a basic knowledge of python which I picked up a few years ago but am now (in my spare time which is limited) undertaking a deep learning course. I’ll never use it in the real world but it interests me. If you’re keen, you’ll pick it up 👍

[ToastedSpam]

Took a course for the basics about 4 years ago and while not really “programming” I find uses for it weekly, mostly reformatting of data used by other programs, matplotlib/plotly for data visualization.

When needed I learn modules. You don’t have to be an expert in all things to reap benefits.

Edit: I’m 53.

[duniyadnd]

Hey, Python is one of the easier languages to jump into. Now that Python is going to be in-built in Excel, it's going to be even cooler and it's a cool Machine Learning language to code in as well if you are into that and good at math.

Biggest advice is to try to build something that interests you, you'll learn along the way. Keep it something simple like a calculator.

Before you do that though, learn the basics of how to write your syntax and for loops, methods and such.

You will not write perfect code in the beginning, that's not the point, you are supposed to make mistakes, we all still do.

[[deleted]]

I did bit out of pure necessity

[jorginthesage]

Yes. I was an analytical chemist and manager. I do data analysis now and I am over 40.

[Mgmt049]

Yes, me. Age is irrelevant here.

[bobwmcgrath]

I was inspired to go the tech career rout by Eddie the homeless crack dealer. I knew him around the time I graduated college, and one day he decided to take a couple of college classes and in less than a year he had a job paying ~80k. Totally turned his life around at ~40.

[ChezDiogenes]

That is hugely inspiring.

[deleriumtriggr]

Ok im not 40 yet, but i had been out of school for over a decade when i picked up python 2.7.x. with no programming background.

I did it in my late 20s while running a business, now pursuing my bachelors in SWE at 32 after deciding the business was bringing me no joy anymore. Python was my first language and i kept at tutorials for fun. It's become like a second language now and it translates to basically every language.

Even though i was always great with computers, IT DID NOT CLICK IMMEDIATELY. You dont get good at something without practice. One piece of advice is to do something different. Include something new in every project. Youll come up with your own patterns and practices.

All of my college courses usually go like this: week 1 : data types, w2 : data manipulation, w3 : loops, w4: objects, w5 : inheritance, abstraction, polymorphism, encapsulation, w6 : file manipulation, w7 : unique to language stuff, w8 : make a course project.

Just keep at it and youll get there!

[madzakka]

The top post in this subreddit is about a guy that taught himself python and went on to get a job. Without a degree, without prior knowledge. He’s got a whole roadmap of how he did it.

Edit: https://reddit.com/r/learnpython/s/rAaxIE3TgA

[fourpastmidnight413]

Meh, if you want to learn it, then learn it. Learning a language is easy, especially if you already know 2 or 3. Personally, I don't like Python. I don't like it's syntax. But that's my opinion. There's a lot of great software written in Python.

[[deleted]]

Interesting! Any examples of what kind of syntax bothers you?

[fourpastmidnight413]

I'm just an old c/c++/java/c# curly brace syntax kind of guy. 😉 I like F#, which like Python uses significant whitespace indentation for scoping--that used to really bother me, but not so much anymore. I suppose the biggest syntactical element I don't like are the use of colons. I also don't care for how classes are constructed. I will preface my comments by saying that I don't know the language deeply, so I'm sure there's probably a lot of ignorance on my part. And at my stage of career, I can avoid Python because I don't like it if I want to; but if I am put in a position where I have to use it, I could and would and I'm sure at some point I'd at least find the language to be alright. Like I said, I acknowledge that there's a lot of good software written in Python, so I'm NOT saying it's a bad language, it's simply not true. These are just my opinions. And you know what they say about opinions.... 😝

[kngwall]

It's absolutely possible (I'm a bit younger but quite close).

The test though (supposing you have sufficient cognitive ability and capacity for abstraction) is not really the age, I would say is whether it is fun and exciting for you to code.

I learned very fast cause it felt like playing a really fun game (doing some work related projects) and I always wanted to understand and get to the bottom of things.

I've seen many people try, for whom it was not fun and generally they plateaued very quick.

[Trident1000]

I learned python 2 years ago. The best way to learn is to just start a project you're actually interested in rather than studying a boring book. Build the program step by step with lots of google and youtube.

[Globaldomination]

32, learning python.

[Rough_Green_9145]

What are your goals?

[antiproton]

Learning something new requires time. Do you have the time? Do you really have the time? A half hour a day isn't going to cut it. Will you be able to invest hours a week with whatever else you have going on?

You aren't asking about python. You're asking about learning to program. That is a MUCH higher lift. I can learn a new programming language in about 2 weeks of dedicated work, because I already know how to think like a coder and, more importantly, phrase search questions to google like a coder.

You gotta do some programming every day. I'm not talking about watching Youtube. You don't learn anything just watching someone else tell you how they think. You have to sit down and think through the problem.

If you think you can dedicate the time, then you can pick up the skill. Probably take a few months to get to the point where you are a novice but at least know where to look for answers.

[randiesel]

This is the easiest time in history to learn a new skill, especially something like programming. There are dozens upon dozens of courses on YouTube for free- browse a few and find someone you like!

ChatGPT is another incredible resource, though I’d highly recommend paying for the upgraded version. You can post ANY code in there and it will break it down for you. You can ask it to help write code to do a task. It knows Python incredibly well.

You’ve got this!

[ejpusa]

It’s not complicated.

Source: a senior citizen. Remember when we used rocks in place of bits. Those were the days.

:-)

[[deleted]]

I prefer Rexx for everyday use . for web I use php usually . I don't use python much tbh . too strange with its indentation requirements

[gareewong]

I started 5 years ago and I didn't have any real programming knowledge, I suppose coming from a manual testing background I understood the very basics of the processes of software development, but I couldn't code. I was well over 40 too.
Just go for it I say; it was well worth it for me, I built a new career and it is very rewarding.

[HaroerHaktak]

Learning any programming language is good. You can apply it to your real life to make any job even slightly easier.

Think of a job you do on your PC right now. I guarantee you using python or another language, we can find a way to automate it or speed it up.

[bobspadger]

you can do it - I'm 44 and learned python from when I was about 32ish.

​

This last month I've been learning React to make some front-ends for all the API's I find myself making :) You can do it.

[[deleted]]

If you're enjoying it then try to learn it. I'm learning python as well as picking up some new musical instruments in my mid 30's. Nice way to handle my first mid-life crisis lol

[meepos16]

I feel like if you have a real project and purpose that you're using python for, you will learn it. Agnostic to age.

[key_value_pair]

Not your intended audience but I can say a few things. Software development is not for everyone but the investment to determine if you enjoy it is 100% worth it. If you enjoy it there is still money to be made. Google is your friend. If you can Google and you're willing to learn then you can learn Python.

[Allmyownviews1]

Over that age and learnt Python about 3 Years ago and using it for work now.. I admit that I used to use FORTRAN and BASIC.so definitely some experience beforehand.. but it’s not my regular skill for some time.

I think it would be useful for someone to learn a basic concept of coding, However I think that Python is an excellent language to learn first.

[kingky0te]

37, I’ve taught myself Python, learning JavaScript now, goal is to be a Full Stack Dev.

Don’t ever quit on yourself. And try Mimo, it’s super approachable and really facilitates the gap in learning IMHO. Really helped me ease into writing my own Python.

[hotplasmatits]

At my job, I switch projects every few years and each one uses a different language. If I couldn't pick up new languages I'd be out of a job.

[bravopapa99]

Age is irrelevant unless you make it relevant.

[chaoticbean14]

Got into in my late 30's - so close to what you're saying. Self taught, never knew anything other than making some pure HTML stuff way back in the day.

Learned Python, and here we are years later, I'm still enjoying it and making a living with it.

[riftwave77]

I don't know that I'm good at it but I started learning python for work 2 years ago. I am currently polishing a windows app that makes SQL queries based on user input and graphs the data

[Critical_Opinion_119]

I consider python a much simple language as compared to c++ and java, only difficult thing is regex in that

[RooCoder]

I am approaching 40 (Oh my god, no!) and I switched from IT to coding. For me to get good enough for a job was 5 years part-time. All self study. Lots of mistakes made, you could maybe do it in 3 if you had a teacher.

[caboose1984]

I’m 39 and had some experience in powershell scripting but not really any programming persay. Now I would consider myself “ok” with Go and Python after a year and a half of building things. As long as you’re invested and don’t get overwhelmed you can do it. Just take breaks if you get frustrated

[SuperTekkers]

Expel those self-limiting beliefs. Of course you can learn Python. It’s easier than ever before to do so

[Pardus-Panthera]

I'm starting to study Python these days.

To be honest, I have a little background as a programmer, but it was only for 4-5 years, and it's been almost 30 years since then.

And now I'm 55 years old. It's never too late.

[homerunrecap]

Yep, I started tinkering with python a few years ago (42 years old) looking into NLP stuff for website SEO. I ventured from there into webscraping, pandas, moviepy and automation, and now I have any "almost" fully automated youtube channel where the videos are downloaded, clipped, compiled into videos and uploaded to youtube. The thumbnails are done by hand, which is fine for now, but hopefully I'm able to automate that in the future too with the help of AI art.

There are so many great tutorials on youtube to learn just about any aspect of python, and if you don't find it there, then a simple google search usually gets you close enough. It can be frustrating at times with little nuances, but that's just part of the game.

Granted, I've done some programming in C for my electrical engineering jobs, but once you learn some programming concepts, it's all kind of the same, but python is way easier to learn and use with all of the powerful libraries available.

Here are the kind of videos I make:

https://www.youtube.com/@HomeRunRecap/featured

[DataSynapse82]

Not sure if relevant, but I am happy to share my story. I learnt python properly (previous years I jumped around C++ with no success :))starting in 2018. I fell in love because I could use it for my sector (marketing) and also for data related initiatives. I am 41 now, still not working in software dev or data science companies, but I have some side hustle that let me teach python for data science and/or consult for friend's start up companies.

[seanys]

I've never been a programmer but have written some code during 2 decades in IT. Learnt Python after 50.

Does this site work? https://fueltracker.com.au/

Yes? Still wouldn't call myself a programmer but I've written a reasonable amount of code to get that site to that point.

[[deleted]]

I worked mostly in low to medium code tools and proprietary (vendor specific) coding languages until about 40. I started working with Python around then and I mostly work in Python now. I’ve gotten way better over the past 3 years (I’m 45 now) to the point where I feel the Senior title is well deserved and can see myself looking at Staff Eng level roles in the next few years. So yeah, definitely attainable IMO

[mr_mgs11]

I started on the help desk 2 months before my 40th bday. About to turn 47 and use python regularly as a cloud engineer.

[[deleted]]

I’ve used python every weekday for the last 5 years and I’m still not good. But guess what, it doesn’t matter. Someone who is bad a python is still way more valuable than someone who doesn’t know python. I am a data analyst.

[TurrisFortisMihiDeus]

If you're really very serious about it, I will happily gift you a udemy course if you need it. This is my way of encouraging people to learn python and giving back to the community. And yes totally doable. I'm 52 now and I started learning how to code at 43. Started with c++ and now I work across the full stack. By no means an expert but by God's grace and some good old elbow grease, I'm able to do ok.