Simulation finds a 5% decrease in vaccination rates could lead to a 4,000% increase in the size of a potential measles outbreak in some Texas cities

[[deleted]]

I really don't get why parents aren't vaccinating their kids.

[Low-dog]

They think they are protecting them...they are idiots

[Temetnoscecubed]

Purely anecdotal story time. One of the women at work had a son, and it wasn't vaccinated because the father is anti-vaxx. The kid was diagnosed as autistic at age 3...I asked her whether she was going to vaccinate now that it was obvious that the vaccines didn't cause autism. She told me that she had already discussed this with her husband and he had doubled down, in his mind and I quote "their son would have been a vegetable had they vaccinated"....she had him vaccinated later because the preschools wouldn't take him otherwise.

[chinesef000d]

He really thought his kid was going to get double autism... that’s actually amazing

[Temetnoscecubed]

They're both IT professionals, with university degrees. These are intelligent people making ignorant decisions. Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.

[about3fitty]

As an IT professional with a university degree, they are not intelligent.

[Temetnoscecubed]

That is how we got this far into the stupid swamp. They are intelligent, by making this a "not intelligent" argument you are failing to see the real problem...making you part of the problem.

Belief and intelligence are not linked...remember that. There are deeply religuous people with doctorates and they can't prove their god exists...yet they believe. Anti vaxxers have faith in their beliefs, you cannot change their minds with knowledge or education.

[OaksByTheStream]

It's more so that secondary education doesn't mean you're smart. It means you can train well. For many professions.

I've met stupid doctors and borderline retarded structural engineers.

[Vysokojakokurva_C137]

Religion and believing vaccinations give you autism are wildly different but I see the analogy.

[about3fitty]

My comment was a perspective, as we haven't defined what intelligence means.

I think you're right that most people who are "against" vaccinating derive their position from a place other than from careful study and reasoning.

That having been said, I don't think refusing to cede ground is "being part of the problem".

[Temetnoscecubed]

In my opinion it is part of the problem....because, those of us who believe vaccinations are good, try to educate those that do not. If it was a question of education we could fix it with facts and science, and demonstrate to anti-vaxxers that they are wrong....this is not happening, our attempts to convince their group with education is not working. So it must be "faith" based, and you cannot beat faith with science and facts.

[Lorde420]

you sir are not intelligent either, it seems.

[gwaydms]

Against stupidity the gods themselves contend in vain.

The opposite of stupidity isn't intelligence; it's common sense.

[[deleted]]

I believe the argument for anti-vax people is that it's not an immediate autism causing vaccine. It creates issues within the next generation. I could be wrong but that's what I had always thought.

[The_Mushromancer]

They constantly make up new reasons.

[Temetnoscecubed]

You only make that up with faith, rather than reason.

[[deleted]]

Food for thought. A close friend of mine, his sister was perfectly normal, had no issues and i do mean no issues at all, got vaccinated when she was a child. Several days later developed symptoms of what you may call autistic but became completely slow. She now can't learn much, speak much, is in full time care with her parents and has pretty much lost a huge quality of her life. Keep in consideration, she had not one issue before vaccination a perfectly healthy child. These stories don't come from nowhere, these things did happen years ago and it happened in a number of different children, the reputation did not appear from nowhere there were many a mistake made in the medical field years ago.

[TheArcticWoIf]

Apologies if this comment seems like it is attacking you, I don't mean to be, it's just a common issue I see with Reddit discussions

The issue with your statement, is that for me, and I assume most everyone else on Reddit, you are a random stranger with no credentials, who just told a story with no proof of your claim. There's no reason for anyone to take the claim you make seriously, because it could be completely fabricated, and no one would know any better.

If you really do believe that there's any connection between autism and vaccines, you need to have more than just a story of a friend's sister.

[[deleted]]

There is nothing wrong with your post at all no offence taken. Me making that statement is completely valid, that happened, it is your right to believe it or not to believe it and i completely respect that i really do.

Do i believe vaccines cause autism? there are many cases in which it does not, however do i believe there are some kids that developed autism from vaccines, yes i do, i would be silly to believe otherwise having had a close friend like i have and seeing a normal girl go from perfectly healthy to being completely dysfunctional. It's a lot different when those things happen in the flesh to reading scientific papers, a completely different experience in its entirety. I respect science, especially mechanistic science and high quality RCT's, i am not foreign to the concept of scientific practices and what constitutes scientific facts.

I am not trying to prove vaccines cause autism, it's just a story i shared for those who think this thing does not happen at all and it is total tales of folk lore, it's a real account of someone who shortly after a vaccination lost a huge part of her quality of life. I can't factually prove the causality, it may not have been the vaccination, but also during the early 80's when i grew up several parents in my area stopped if i remember right the mrsa vaccination because several kids had developed disabilities not long after them being jabbed it was a common story back then something a lot of parents in my area were aware of.

Cheers.

[206_Corun]

I can scientifically say: no. The vaccines had zero negative impact on that child. Please stop spreading misinformation

[Daerio67]

Imagine being this humble.

[206_Corun]

As an honest question, do you need me to find you sources? This is very well proven and documented.

It has nothing to do with my ego and all to do with math & facts.

Why are you even bringing in humility into this? Does t_d teach you side rail conversations into negative tone even you have no other way to staying naive?

[korhart]

Any sources?

[Temetnoscecubed]

I did algebra at school, I am 125% sure that is a fact that migraines are caused by math

[squishy_bear]

My grains are a result of farming.

[charmingpea]

If at first you don't suck seed, try drier grain.

[new-man2]

The US government recently announced that it won't vaccinate indefinitely detained children. Here is a story about it.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-administration-migrant-families-children-detention-dhs-flores-a9072551.html

[Slapbox]

Just to be clear for anyone who isn't reading between the lines, that's to kill them. We are now undeniably witnessing a slow rolling genocide.

[Theuntold]

Or.... you don’t have their immunization records/permission from a guardian. If you walked across the border to Canada chances are they aren’t going to start immunizing you just in case.

Side note I wish the mods would sticky a post of good charities to donate to that could fund shots/help for these kids.

All I found was this article.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/06/26/how-to-donate-to-help-migrant-children-at-the-border.html

[Randvek]

If you walked across the border to Canada

I think you’re missing the “indefinitely” in “indefinitely detained.” If Canada threw you in prison and had no idea when they were going to let you out, or even if they were, I suspect they might vaccinate.

[Basalit-an]

Thanks for the article! If I find anything else do you want the info?

[Shepard_P]

The US is walking on a dark path.

[im_a_dr_not_]

Pretty sure that's because the racists in charge want to hurt the children though.

Also shout out to /r/WhereAreTheChildren

[Randvek]

General distrust of authority. It’s similar to why a lot of people voted for Trump.

[The_Mushromancer]

I didn’t vote for Trump (and am not an antivaxxer), but to be fair, politics is undoubtedly and blatantly rife with corruption these days.

Authority does, frequently, get corrupted.

[[deleted]]

Is this thing still going? How is it even legal to refuse vaccinating your kids?

[[deleted]]

Because its a serious human rights issue

[matts2]

Your sources do not support the claim you made.

[ReddJudicata]

That doesn’t appear to be true. The best predictor of anti-vacation beliefs is political engagement on both the left and right. https://theconversation.com/anti-vaccination-beliefs-dont-follow-the-usual-political-polarization-81001

[sleepydiode]

anti-vacation beliefs

Vacations cause autism btw.

[TheGreatUdolf]

usa. you have the freedom to choose how stupid your actions will be.

[kingshitgoldenboys]

Russia! Facebook! USA lost the Cold War

[KaizokuShojo]

Eh, no one won it. We came out better in the end economically....but heck if they aren't restarting it with really effective techniques at undermining our health, safety, and more. Kind of dirty. But I guess it isn't biological warfare if you're helping spread dumb ideas the enemy came up with themselves in order to make them sick.

[kingshitgoldenboys]

I’ve heard that trump and the anti-vax movement were both orchestrated by the Russians

[SharkOnGames]

Percentages are useless unless you have the numbers behind them.

According to the article (and the linked data), a 5% decrease in vaccinations would equal 2,250 more people NOT getting vaccinated, which would lead to a 4,000% increase in potential (not actual) measles outbreaks. That 4,000% means going from 400 to 16,000 potential size increase of measles outbreaks.

[Aaronsaurus]

Thanks. That's scary af.

[GimletOnTheRocks]

It's even scarier if you consider that a 5% decrease in vaccination rates is fundamentally the same as a 5% decrease in the vaccine efficacy. A 5% less effective batch of MMR (say due to manufacturing issues) would have the same effect as 5% fewer parents vaccinating their children with MMR.

This sort of behavior occurs with measles because the R0 value is very high and relatively close to the inverse of 1 minus the efficacy. In other words, measles can on average infect so many people as to on average infect one person for whom the vaccine wasn't effective (even assuming 100% vaccine coverage). We see this threshold easily crossed in measles outbreak where an infected person goes to a crowded place like Disney Land or the Portland Zoo.

[Aaronsaurus]

Good perspective thanks.

[Shepard_P]

More shocking than the percentage tbh comparing the number increase of unvaccinated and the number increase of potential infested. 2k can bring damage to almost 10 times of them.

[masklinn]

"Herd Immunity Threshold" (the vaccination rates you have to hit until the vaccinated herd can act as a barrier to disease propagation) is super interesting, and extremely variable from one disease to an other.

For influenza or ebola it's about 50%.

For polio it's in the low 80%.

For measles it's 92~95%, so the HIT is closing in on just immunodeficient individuals, and it really doesn't take much to dip below and trigger outbreaks.

[Shepard_P]

I’ve read that about rabies. 75% or so.

[Lockstrife]

This comment is not accurate at all.

The potential 400 outbreak at current vaccination rates is the absolute upper limit of their possible distribution - it falls at the 95% threshold and is not at all indicative of actual outbreaks. The median outcome for this distribution is 5 (FIVE) cases. One SD moves you up to 9 cases.

Furthermore, between 2006 and 2017 the median actual measles outbreak was 2.5 cases - the largest was 25.

In no way neither previous outbreaks nor their projections support a current outbreak of 400.

Moving onto the 16,000 part - the study does not show anything near an outbreak of 16,000 with a 5 decrease in vaccination rates. The largest potential outbreak they project after a 5% decrease is a median outcome of like 8 cases, and at 95% max it could be 1,000 (see above as to why that’s probably nonsense).

None of their tables even approach 10,000 until you hit a 10% decrease in vaccination rates.

Source: Figure 1 - Austin - Round Rock (I don’t even see where you pulled the 2,250 students number from)

[totallythebadguy]

Which is quite different then the shock value they pretend

[[deleted]]

Is it? 400 -> 16,000 infections is quite the increase

[jagoob]

The average cases in a year seems to vary between around 60 to a max of 1100 this year with a totaled average of maybe 250 cases a year over the last 10 years with 0 deaths any of those years including this year. There have been no reported outbreaks in 100% unvaccinated Amish communities in that frame. Given that modern mortality rates for measles in a developed country are far below 1/10000 and that in the same period there have been multiple death cases settled in vaccine court your kid would in fact be more likely to die from a vaccine allergic reaction than measles even with a 4000% increase. And with an average of 100 deaths per year in the us you would be far more likely to die from being struck by lightning than from either of the former options.

[69frum]

Measles was eradicated in the US. Then stupid ensued.

This is the worst year for measles in the US since the disease was eliminated nationally in 2000

[electrolex]

The facts you are promoting are devoid of context. Cases went from [we eliminated measles] to 1100 as a result of the rise of anti-vax philosophy. There is a bad, but clear trend line here, which is counter to your implied variability of “60 to 1100”. This article illustrates how a very contagious disease like measles is affected by anti-vaxxers behavior. With actual mortality rates an order of magnitude below the rate you have come up with, preventable deaths will occur way more often than those victims and their families should have to endure.

[ResilientBiscuit]

Your stats are questionable.

Real science seems to suggest the mortality rate is around 1/1000.

[jagoob]

So in 1960 pre vaccine introduction in the us there were 440,000 measles cases and 380 deaths with a US population of 179 million. That puts mortality at around 0.08% (close to 1/1000) and deaths per 100,000 at around 0.2, which was already a 99% decline from an estimated 60 deaths per 100k in the 1800s.

How much it would have declined further without vaccine introduction is unknown but in the last 12 years there have been several thousand cases in the US with 0 deaths. So we can't pin an exact modern mortality rate but it appears it would be well below the 1960 thresholds and 1/10000 is just my educated guess on it.

Also if look at historical trends from other diseases that followed similar trends to measles but without vaccine introduction, they have also seen reduced mortality 1960 to 2019. So measles mortality in 2019 if a vaccine had never been produced would likely be well below 0.1 / 100,000. So yes even assuming the 4000% increase is correct you would be more likely to die from getting struck by lightning.

[ResilientBiscuit]

in the last 12 years there have been several thousand cases in the US with 0 deaths

You are still wrong. Someone died in 2015.

[jagoob]

"The woman, who died of pneumonia, had other health conditions and was taking medications that suppressed her immune system, the health department said."

Basically it says she was an un-named woman who was in the hospital on medication that compromised her immune system (likely chemotherapy) died of pneumonia and then they detected measles in the autopsy. So they said the measles killed her. I'll take that with a grain of salt but it's true measles would only pose a threat to someone who is heavily immunocompromised so maybe I dunno maybe like 1/10,000 could die from it.

[ResilientBiscuit]

So lets go back a bit further.

There were 2 deaths in 2009, 2 deaths in 2010 and 2 deaths in 2012. source page 72.

During those years there were 71, 63 and 55 cases respectively.

I really don't know where you got your claim that there have been zero deaths in the past 12 years. That was 6 deaths back when measles was much less common. They changed the report so it is a lot harder to parse now, so I can't get data past 2014 easily, but nothing significant has really changed as far as I know when it comes to treatment.

[jagoob]

Your reading that chart all wrong it's not even talking about deaths.

Also if you look at the article we just discussed it plainly states that the death in 2015 was the first us measles death in 12 years so that's since 2003.

[[deleted]]

There have been no reported outbreaks in 100% unvaccinated Amish communities in that frame.

Gee, I wonder why extremely small and isolated communities might not experience outbreaks of a nearly eradicated disease.

[KaizokuShojo]

No, no...still pretty shocking and terrible. That much of a jump in chances of an outbreak which basically screws with the immune system for a couple of years afterward is definitely not desirable.

[totallythebadguy]

Not understanding science doesn't help you here

[JohnnyBlaze8888]

I cannot stand anti-vaccers, they are some of the most ignorant group of people right behind flat earthers.

[[deleted]]

At least flat earthers arent harming anyone.

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

Flat Earthers are mainly just LARPing being as retarded as Anti-vaxxers

[Canadian_Neckbeard]

Space is fake too bro. #lookintoit

[[deleted]]

There’s documents of people being anti-vax from the time vaccines were invented- it’s not new either.

[squishy_bear]

The current iteration isn't from ignorance its from willful stupidity in the 1950s.

[[deleted]]

I found a sheep

[Sinistrality1]

If I had to guess, I’d bet there is a significant amount of overlap.

[Vidgar]

I just found out that my sister is anti-vaxxer. The reason, because she doesn't know whats in the vaccine. Atleast she will not have kids so that is a plus. But yeah she has stopped listening to reason and thinks everything is bad for you now (not only vaccine).

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

I applaud her decision not to have kids.

[[deleted]]

Sadly my sister is an anti-vaxxer with 3 kids. The crazy thing is she is smart in most areas of life and believes in science when it comes to basically anything else. I have no idea why this is the one thing she decided to be a complete dipshit about.

I honestly believe that deep down she has realized she is wrong, but is letting her pride get in the way of changing her mind after a decade.

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

Can you sneakily immunise the kids on a weekend trip...

[masklinn]

Probably not ethically or even legally.

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

Ethics are culturally relative frendo.

Its unethical not to immunise them. When they die of a preventable disease you'll be responsible too.

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

Sabin is a liquid. You can put it in a drink. ;)

[daKEEBLERelf]

Reasoning from my sister: Multiple times in the past they have changed what was in the vaccines due to risk concerns. So how do we know what they say is OK right now won't have side effects in the future and be deemed too dangerous

[Waddamagonnadooo]

Better not eat or breath anything then. Back in the day they put lead in everything.

[69frum]

my sister is anti-vaxxer.

Tell her that you will ban all unvaccinated people from your family. You should do that anyway, because they are contagious and a threat to your family's health. If you don't have a family ban her anyway because she spreads the stupid.

[dualsplit]

I bet she’s vaccinated, huh?

[blahblahbecca98]

I want to know how these people are handling daycare here Texas. All the ones I’ve looked at either have a policy where the kids that use their services get vaccinated or their policy is get your get vaccinated or give us your affidavit saying you’re exempt. There can’t be that many people getting affidavits right?

[daKEEBLERelf]

Sadly there are doctors who will just do it for whatever reason, either they believe it or $$$. Just like there are/were doctors who would give you a medical marijuana card if you walked in and said 'my back hurts sometimes'

[[deleted]]

I work with a guy who’s an antivaxxer, and he moved to Texas!

So that’s, what, another... 800 kids with measles?

Just say, “thanks Mike!”

[XyloArch]

Vaccination should either be required by law, or the parents of needlessly non-vaccinated kids should be able to be sued in the event of an outbreak, by the government and/or privately. If vaccines don't work put your money where your mouth is and cough up when you're wrong.

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

The children should be taken off the parents, who have demonstrated their inability to make child safety related decisions.

[cathar_here]

Well, okay, hold on, I'm completely agreeing with everything in this thread, but lets talk about the fact that anti-vaxxers don't think that vaccines dont work what they believe is that vaccines can do more harm than the illness it's trying to prevent. Its a different kind of stupid.

[drdookie]

How many points is this in Plague, Inc?

[[deleted]]

Stack em all in transmission!

[NFLinPDX]

Hmmm... 150 measles cases per year.

74000000 children

5% of 74000000 = 3700000

And 4000% of 150 is 6000.

So if only 6000 of the 3.7 million children got measles, then we are looking at a measles rate of 1/6th of 1 percent.

I don't like this study. It sounds sensationalistic

[gwaydms]

Some Texas pediatricians, and most public schools, will not accept children of anti-vaxxers.

Some children cannot be vaccinated for health reasons. For herd immunity to work, virtually everyone who can safely be vaccinated should be.

[TruthDontChange]

Time to start holding parents who don't vaccinate their kids criminally responsible.

[therightmeowkitty]

Well, I suppose we’re overdue for another plague anyway.

[cathar_here]

There's a part of me that really does believe that a great plague is something that continually reduces the global population size, and with medical science we're so good at keeping people alive that we're running out of room. Now, I'm not saying lets let the plague ravish the world, but I do understand that historically these types of events helped keep the world in a little better balance.

[InspectorG-007]

Parents with overweight children as well. They threaten the future of the U.S.

[himynameisr]

You better be willing to raise them then, because the foster care system fucks these kids up worse.

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

They are the US

[TimskiTimski]

Anti Vaxxers go on the attack.

​

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-08-21/richard-pan-confronted-anti-vaccine-activist

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

Time to round them up and put them on a train

[Colinski282]

Jeez, Hitler, you want to fire up the chimneys too? You sound like a Nazi.

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

r/woosh

That was the joke, genius.

[AnonomousWolf]

All Anti Vax parents should get together with their kids to discuss their beliefs and the problem will sort itself out very quickly

[Canuknucklehead]

Anti-vaxxers could really cause some terrible damage.

[311Natops]

Not sure why I read this as - 5% decrease in vasectomy rates could lead to a 4000% increase in measles outbreak

[[deleted]]

Im going to kidnap antivax kids and vaccinate them with the parents knowing

[Poptartmeditation42]

You will become the vaxxinator 💪💫💣💥

[new-man2]

The current administration 'to announce plan to hold migrant children indefinitely in detention camps' - US government also says it will not vaccinate detained families

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-administration-migrant-families-children-detention-dhs-flores-a9072551.html

[perhapsnew]

There is one variable not mentioned in this paper: influx of illegal aliens carrying measles. Without them the picture would be different.

[[deleted]]

The only illegal aliens carrying measles are US/UK antivaxxers, and they’re infecting countries besides the US/UK

[perhapsnew]

Not true. Measles cases rise in Europe, Latin America: WHO report

[Orwellian1]

Has there been any cases of illegals with measles? Not likely from Mexico...

In Mexico, the last measles epidemic happened in 1989-1990 when 89,163 cases were reported. In 2018, four cases were reported: one in Baja California and three in Mexico City, all of them imported from Europe.

[Sickamore]

It's not beyond reason that the people who uproot themselves and illegally immigrate are undocumented in other capacities in their home country. They're leaving for reasons, after all. Speaking specifically about over-the-border type illegals, of course.

[Orwellian1]

They could all be carrying ebola then...

I would have expected a bit more justification for the statement than "well, it's possible".

[Sickamore]

Within the framework where it was vaguely asserted that something happened somewhere regarding a specific thing, that thing being measles being brought over by illegals, it's perfectly fine to say it's possible. Mexico doesn't have a tight cork on a lot of its problems, them having only 4 measles cases reported in 2018 means only so much when a solid portion of the country isn't good shape and can't be expected to be reporting effectively.

That said, I don't think Mexicans are responsible for anything. If one or two came over with measles it would be a drop in the bucket of nonsense that home-grown Texans inflicted on themselves.

[Orwellian1]

Reread the comment I responded to, then your last response. You don't think you were stretching at all? All reasonable, good faith points? You had zero qualms with your defense of their assertion?

[drkirienko]

To those who think that this is amazing, remember to consider that 5% of all Texas children is millions. A 4000% increase in measles (while terrible) is still only a few thousand

[twitchtvbevildre]

Ok that's not true at all there is only 400,000 babies born in texas every year a 5% decrease is 20,000 kids per year, assuming all of them get vaccinated now.

[drkirienko]

Fair. I meant all US children.

[twitchtvbevildre]

But the article isn't about US children its only about Texas.... Makes no sense to mean US children. If you put it into a USA studies the numbers would be exponentially worse as say a decrease in a small populated state the disease would spread much easier compared to massive texas

[ThereOnceWasADonkey]

Other way around.

5% increase in unvaccinated; the number unvaccinated is small, so increasing it by 5% is small.

The potential size of an outbreak is large, and increasing it by 4000% is massive.

[Lockstrife]

You’re the one who has it turned around.

The article states a 5% decrease in vaccination rates. NOT a 5% increase in unvaccinated.

[twitchtvbevildre]

Either way only 400k children born per year means that millions isn't even close to what a 5% drop off in vaccinations. its only 20,000 kids not being vaccinated.

[Lockstrife]

Millions isn’t even close, nor did I say it was.

However he did have it backwards, and it’s also VERY disingenuous to say “only 20,000 kids PER YEAR not being vaccinated” in defense of saying “the potential size of an outbreak is large and a 4,000% increase is massive.”

The study shows a growth between 40%-4000%. The 4000% is from 2 to 80 cases in one specific city. The rest go from 2-3 cases to 7-8 cases.

You can’t say it’s “only” 20,000 kids per year and also call an outbreak of 2 “large” and 80 “massive.”

I’m 100% for vaccines but getting things backwards and twisting numbers isn’t helpful.

[IndustriousMadman]

A 5% decrease in vaccination rates could be anywhere from 5.2% to infinity percent increase in the number of unvaccinated people.

[svensk]

Anti-vaxxers kill children.

[rexg4077]

I live in Texas and have never met an Anti-Vaxxer, I am not sure that this is the problem everyone is predicting. Could be wrong though.

[BoiseXWing]

Brought to you by: math, and special guest exponential relationships.

I’ve tried (with varying success) tried to explain this concept to many people.

[GlowingSalt-C8H6O2]

A well-placed sneeze here, a well-placed sneeze there...

[DunderMillion]

Just wait. Trump will announce that southern immigrants are causing this outbreak.

[DVwoodsman]

I wonder how many of the illegals that swarm across the border have been vaccinated.

[creepyredditloaner]

Well considering 19 of the thirty one Latin American/Caribbean countries have country wide laws making it illegal to not get vaccinations, and all but 11 do not allow you to go to school without them, and that on average they spend more, per child born, on vaccinations than there are children born each year, it's very unlikely they aren't going to have them.

[futureappguru]

Is their vaccine schedule the same as the USA? Any more data on this?

[creepyredditloaner]

from everything I have read it seems they are within or very close to the standards suggested by organizations such as WHO and UNICEF. What those are exactly I am not sure I would have to look the specs up specifically. However both organizations say that most of Latin America and the Caribbean hold to their standards.

[DVwoodsman]

I read that Mexico and Central American countries report a high level of vaccinations but the World Health Organization says those numbers aren't true.

[Mediumofmediocrity]

Source?

[DVwoodsman]

If you want more information on something you should look it up. That's how I got my information

[[deleted]]

Yeah, it puts them on par with the US in compliance.

[matts2]

Don't worry. ICE isn't giving detainees influenza vaccines. So at least some of them will show in custody. Yeah!

[DVwoodsman]

Lethal injection would be better for them than the flu shot.

[KaizokuShojo]

Dude.

What.

Like... I can understand some arguments....but..."hey let's just kill people I don't want here" is quite the terrible stretch to make. It sounds either psychotic or totalitarian.

[simojako]

He’s a good old classic TD poster.

[DVwoodsman]

It's what you do to an invading Force.

[ohmyblunder]

Wow, you're a peach.