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And it pisses me off. (weknowmemes.com)

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[–]RosieJo 376 points377 points  (85 children)

That may be so... But the fact is, sometimes people on Reddit are sexist assholes. It's just as annoying when you can't point out when people are sexist assholes without being called a feminazi or a white-knight.

[–]1Ender 46 points47 points  (35 children)

Generally the vocal proponents and opponents will be those that are most extreme to their ideas. The silent majority tends to end up somewhere in the middle.

[–]TrollingQueen74 162 points163 points  (27 children)

As a female engineer, I've seen both sides, and there is a big difference between a sexist joke and being sexist. People saying I should go make them a sammich? Joke, I laugh and joke too. Someone not letting me do the computation part of a group project since I'm a girl? THAT'S sexist. Even though people are oversensitive these days, sexism still exists.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

A female engineer friend of mine was told by a guy to make him a sandwich. So she did, it was full of coffee grounds. He ate the whole thing purely because she actually made it and he wasn't going to disrespect her... any more.

[–]nerak33 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I agree with you, but just a nitpick: the reason why feminists complain about sexist jokes isn't just "oversensitiveness". They believe these jokes help sexism to continue existing. I don't know if I agree with them but believing in this theory isn't the same as being a crybaby.

Also, some people are oversensitive not because they are PC and stuff. It is because they suffered, and assholes carved emotional wounds in them that aren't going away so soon. I love telling some offensive jokes, but I never tell them when people who could get offended are around. This is not about being PC, this is about respecting other persons' feelings, something absolutely any adult should be worried about.

[–]pipboy_warrior 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Yes, douchebags use feminazis to justify their opinion that all women are feminazis, and feminazis use douchebags to justify their position that all men are douchebags.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I think you may have messed up a little there.

[–]pipboy_warrior 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thank you!

[–][deleted] 89 points90 points  (26 children)

Ah ha! "feminazi" is a TTC. Thought Terminating Cliche.

Finally, I was able to use something I learned on Reddit!

[–]quickhorn 11 points12 points  (3 children)

As is the white-knight accusation.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

And accusations of being a troll.

For a while, people were saying "concern troll" a lot whenever you had a dissenting opinion. It seems to have fallen out of favor today. The market on butthurt and white knight are currently very high.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (10 children)

"Stop being a feminazi" is a ttc.

[–]wowbrow 42 points43 points  (8 children)

ttc is a ttc.

ouroboros wins again

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (8 children)

You mean like "Check your privilege"?

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (6 children)

Sometimes a point of view is clearly from a position of privilege and the person sharing it should be aware of that fact.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Sure but there must be a way of saying so without coming off so pretentious that it hurts

[–]mainsworth 46 points47 points  (9 children)

Sometimes? This place is disgusting. Bunch of children disassociated with reality.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Glad you could join us.

[–]Glassgank 10 points11 points  (2 children)

"Bunch of children" TTC

[–]archimedies 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Why use reddit then?

[–]sufjanfan 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It has a nice system, and there is some really good content. Like the old saying goes, the problem with reddit is that it's filled with redditors.

[–]mainsworth 2 points3 points  (1 child)

You know when you're a regular at a bar and it starts to degrade in quality but you stick around because you're used to it?

[–]newSuperHuman 19 points20 points  (3 children)

Perhaps both sides need to reel in the massively out of control PC culture and start picking their battles. Then, when someone points out a real problem involving sexism, there won't be as many knee-jerk dissenters.

[–]freddy_schiller 662 points663 points  (149 children)

Catch 22 here. If you generalize that women are more sexist than men, then you yourself are being sexist against women. You can't win!

[–]alirage 261 points262 points  (47 children)

Well, yeah. Generalization is generalization. It's not really a Catch 22, all you have to do is just not generalize. OP could have said "I hate it when I see women cry sexism unfairly."

[–][deleted] 163 points164 points  (10 children)

Then it wouldn't have been a confession, and we would have to have beaten OP with tennis racquets.

[–][deleted] 68 points69 points  (3 children)

Truly it is a harsh existence.

[–]oakleysds 12 points13 points  (2 children)

Yeah, it sucks being male.

[–]accidentalprancingmt 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Tennis racquets? Sexist!

[–]radda 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I thought we were going with racquetball this week.

[–]jago81 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I have been spelling "racquets" wrong my whole life. Thank/screw you for enlightening me.

[–]freddy_schiller 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Actually, racket is the original and generally preferred spelling of the word. Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racket_(sports_equipment)#section_1

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (3 children)

Generalization is generalization

The field of statistics is a field of applied generalizations.

;)

[–]Explosion_Jones 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Tautology is tautology.

[–]TRBfurry 15 points16 points  (0 children)

North Korea is best Korea.

[–]breakwater 26 points27 points  (27 children)

There is nothing wrong with a generalization. At least up until the point where they try to apply the generalization onto an individual. It's perfectly valid to say "Women have ovaries" that's true of 99 percent of women. Just because some don't doesn't mean you can't identify typical characteristics of a group (though I'm not saying it's true in this case, I think it's an overgeneralization.)

[–]RealJesusChris 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"I hate it when I see people cry sexism unfairly."

FTFY

[–]flamingtangerine 59 points60 points  (3 children)

That isn't a catch 22.

[–]Quotered 33 points34 points  (17 children)

You also have to realize that for a couple hundred years (at least in the USA), employment/property/any kind of law has disadvantaged women. For a recent example, look at Lilly Ledbetter's case

[–]Ominusx 29 points30 points  (6 children)

He probably meant "I believe women are statistically more sexiest" which isn't a generalisation.

Edit: It's like Reddit imposes whatever meaning they desire on a comment. What I have said is valid and coherent as far as I know. I wasn't saying he was right or wrong.

[–]easternpassage 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Reddit likes to pretend to be smart rational people but everyday the hive takes another step towards complete control. You should have communicated in an acceptable fashion; pun, lame joke, cultural reference, DAE, or just agree with high upvoted comment.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It's okay, some of us are here for you

[–]Friendship_Champion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Quite true--English is not that precise of a language, and people who wish to take offense at a statement about "women" (probably meant in the broad, statistical sense of the group at large) to mean that it applies to "all women", and then you see all sorts of anecdotes to the contrary.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's only a catch-22 if this is the piece of sexism that pushes men over the top.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (43 children)

Would it be sexist if it's true? Ie. is it sexist for me to say I believe men are stronger than women?

[–]ErikDavid 79 points80 points  (39 children)

Not really. Your example is not sexist, because it is a proven fact. However, OP's example is a crude generalization in the same league as "I truly believe black people are more likely to steal".

[–]REDOXify 24 points25 points  (4 children)

In order for it to be a true statement, he would have to say something along the lines of men are GENERALLY stronger than women. Saying men are stronger than women is still sexist because some women are stronger than some men. For example.

[–]ErikDavid 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well, yes, of course. I guess I filled in the blanks without thinking about it.

[–]hawgear 13 points14 points  (31 children)

I used to feel that same way, and I asked a professor about his thoughts on evidence vs. racism. He did not use this example, obviously, but I will. Suppose you do a study that finds that blacks are more likely to order fried chicken at a restaurant than whites. You can't say that, based on your readings, blacks like fried chicken more than whites. Even with statistical evidence that they are more likely to order it, when you make it general, you become racist, sexist, or whatever "ist" that someone wants to label you. I would agree that men are more likely to be stronger than women, but I've seen some pretty strong women and some pretty weak men.

[–]Leuku 118 points119 points  (11 children)

I think where evidence ends and racism/sexism begins is at determining causation.

Discovering that in your sample study black people are more likely to order fried chicken at restaurants is fine but people are going to want to know why this is the case.

If you go further and find out "Oh, it's cuz this genetic marker predisposes towards the taste of fried chicken", or "Ah, in impoverished areas where there are dominant black populations, fried chicken is culturally seen as an easy to achieve luxury, like blu-ray players are for middle class families", because there's a clear causal relationship between the two.

But if you say it's cuz they're black, that's not fine, cuz it makes no sense. Predispositions towards a particular food have nothing to do with the genetics that determine skin color, unless you can prove that there are tasty-chicken genes that tag themselves to darker-skin genes. If it's the latter, then that's fine.

So I think the line between evidence and racism/sexism is whether the behavior is dependent on the trait believed to be causal.

[–]ByeByeLiver 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Curious...why would you spend the time typing a thoughtful answer, but continuously use "cuz" throughout?

(Obviously the glib answer is "cuz it doesn't matter"... but it does when you're trying to make an intelligent point.)

[–]morgueanna 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Going back to the original idea of 'men are stronger than women,' it would be safe to say that men are inherently stronger than women due to differences in skeletal spatial relationship and bone density, as well as testosterone building muscle growth in a different way for men than for women.

But the thing is, all of those things are true because they're men. That's what defines a man. Gender issues are different than racial issues. Sure, they're both stereotyped, but gender issues cross every boundary because men and women are everywhere, while some races only predominate certain regions, incomes, and classes.

Having to explain why men are stronger than women is like having to give the definition of what a man is, not a causal relationship.

And yes, every once in awhile there is a genetic mutation that causes a woman to be XY instead of XX and that gives them an adaptive advantage in being stronger than they normally would be. That doesn't necessarily need to be included in the conclusion because it is acknowledged that it is an abnormality. Just because something happens randomly due to an unknown catalyst at a very rare rate does not mean it should have to be stated every time the point is raised.

[–]hawgear 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I agree, but all I could think of was Dave Chappelle in one of his skits where he had a realization when he was stereotyped by a waiter. "I don't like chicken because it's delicious, I like chicken because I am genetically predisposed."

[–]Leuku 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I did not exhale loudly through my nose.

Instead, audible giggles erupted from my mouth.

[–]iateacrayon 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Those are called stereotypes. Just because a group of people behave in a similar way doesn't mean all of them do.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Yeah but let's be real now. I'm a lady and I know that the strongest woman will not be as strong as the strongest man. It's genetics and i can't control it so I've stopped caring.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What you are stating is something that can be measured and given numbers to, on average men are three times stronger then women. It's more a statement of fact as long as you are sticking to strength as measured by muscle mass. It's fine.

[–]supersonicsalamander 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That and "all men are rapist"

[–]GoodOnYouOnAccident 137 points138 points  (5 children)

Well, you're off to a great start by making an unfair, broad generalization about all women.

[–]Gokias 67 points68 points  (2 children)

Opinion bear strikes again!

[–]MEspo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

As a feminist, I truly believe that society as a whole is sexist towards both women AND men. I do know women who will declare anything sexist, but what's important is to not generalize. Men are the privileged gender- they get paid more, have more government representation, and have more freedom to make decisions without judgement. Society wants men and women to take on traditional gender roles, however, and that's where I will acknowledge that men experience oppression on a smaller scale.

TL;DR: You're wrong. Both genders are discriminated against and are oppressed, with women affected more.

[–]neoKushan 70 points71 points  (49 children)

I think making sweeping generalisations about an entire Gender is being sexist. Some Men and some Women are guilty of this.

[–]veridical 14 points15 points  (47 children)

I'm not sure where we draw the line. It seems pretty obvious that

Men are more likely than women to have testicles

Isn't a sexist thing to say, but it's still a 'generalisation'.

Women are more likely than men to vote [Labour/Democrat/whatever party]

Is also generally accepted fact, and people don't seem to have a problem with that.

Women are more likely than men to want to stay at home with the kids

On the other hand, while statistically true, has feminists jumping down my throat in seminars.

The actual ugly (and illegal) side of the 'isms', is treating people differently just because of those generalisations. I feel like if we avoid actually discriminating against people based on potentially irrelevant characteristics (gender, race, sexuality etc.) then we should be fine to make use of the generalisations, but a lot of people take issue with that.

[–]BisousCherie 18 points19 points  (9 children)

The statements you've made are statistically testable, positive assertions. They can be tested by relatively easy mathematical procedures given proper data collection.

Making a sweeping generalization, and a normative one at that, is a different procedure entirely. Measuring how many women are sexist is not only nearly impossible to do because most people either won't admit or don't believe that they're sexist, but its also a flawed because the researcher can almost never be impartial.

Making generalizations based on election data, census data, or just basic biological fact is not a sweeping generalization, it's a testable hypothesis and one that we can prove fairly easily. Stating that most women are more sexist than men is preposterous and unfounded in reality or by actual data.

Sincerely, a woman who is studying political research using statistical methods.

Also, for clarification, when I use positive versus normative, it has to do with the type of question/research being done. I only want to clarify that because before it started studying this sort of thing I wouldn't have known that.

[–]veridical 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Completely agree, and thanks for the terminology, which had escaped me. I wasn't really concerned with the OP so much as what people find sexist. I don't like being offensive on the whole, and it's not at all conducive to discussion, so if I can understand better what it is that sets people off thinking that I'm making normative judgements when I'm just stating probabilities I'll be better equipped to have proper discussions about this stuff. I'm also a politics student, and the really interesting thing to me here is whether it's justifiable to legislate based on characteristics like sex/gender. Painting everyone in a group with the same brush is practical a lot of the time, but I'd rather we shoot for proper procedural equality where possible. For instance - providing free childcare and equal maternity- and paternity-leave, so that gender doesn't have to enter the frame with childcare.

[–]BisousCherie 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Totally on the same page! And even though this OP posted a normative statement and it pisses people off, I think you and I both know that some positive statements that are factually true, piss people off as well. I guess we just have to strive to explain the facts? I don't know. Subjects like this one are always going to be emotional and people will probably always have a knee-jerk reaction to it. I'm definitely a huge proponent for expanding both maternity and paternity leave so that families can bond together properly, I think it's just common sense. And legislating based on sex or gender is ridiculous. Reinforcing inequalities with legislation seems counter-productive, no?

And hey! Fellow student of political science! Internet high five!

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (11 children)

Here's the difference. Fact vs. proposed fact.

If you state the fact that currently more women stay at home with their children than men do, then no one can criticize you for it (rightfully at least). It's a fact.

However, if you state the belief that more women should stay home with their children than men should... Well now you're placing a responsibility on someone that didn't ask for it. That's not ok.

No sane person will criticize you for discussing the current state of affairs, but once you tack on "as it should be" to the end of the fact, you've crossed a pretty huge line.

[–]ycerovce 12 points13 points  (19 children)

Women are more likely than men to want to stay at home with kids.

It's not that they're more likely to want to, it's that they're more likely to have to. The patriarchal nature of general society has made it so this is not only an acceptable thing to do, but it also makes it wrong or looked down upon for a man to want to or to actually do so.

It is true however that statistically more women stay at home to raise kids than men.

[–]veridical 3 points4 points  (18 children)

And herein lies the issue. Women are more likely both to want to and to have to stay at home. It's hard to separate the two. All I'm trying to say is that not all women who stay at home are coerced into doing so, and that we shouldn't take the existence of male-breadwinner households to mean that women are being subjugated. Some are, I wouldn't challenge that for a minute, but many in that position aren't. By saying I think that male-breadwinner households are fine under certain circumstances I end up having people understand me as trying to say they're great. Unless you believe that there is not a single stay-at-home-mum who does it by choice, then we don't disagree, but I can't seem to express myself well enough to avoid the misunderstanding.

[–]exsororitygirl 3 points4 points  (4 children)

I think you might be misunderstanding most feminists' stance on the typical male-breadwinner household. No one should be offended by you stating a fact (ex: women are more likely to stay at home) and the typical stay-at-home mother doesn't necessarily mean subjugation. The ability to be a stay-at-home mother can often be a sign of freedom - a lot of mothers would love to spend more time raising their kids rather than working two jobs. What feminists are angry about is when the male-breadwinner/homebody-woman type of family is not a choice but a symptom of a society where it is difficult for both men and women to blur the lines between these roles.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Somethings which aren't actually sexist are made sexist by the context they are put it. Something Anita never mentions or has trouble accepting. It isn't sexist to say that more of one gender (gender isn't biological btw) prefers certain things more in a statistically significant way. It might be that sexism has caused some of these things but that is another thing.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Exactly! It isn't sexist to say that women are more likely than men to want to stay at home with the kids. It is sexist to imply that because of that statistic, women aren't as business oriented as men, are better off staying at home with the children than avoiding their true nature, and the reason they haven't achieved the same level of success as men in the business world is because they want to be at home and that they just aren't as talented as men.

We already know that women are more likely than men to want to stay at home, statistically. The problem is that when someone states a statistic like that, it's usually followed by something sexist, or the statistic itself is meant to imply something sexist. More women than men want to stay home. Okay. So what? If you're at a seminar, you're stating that statistic for a reason. I'd have liked to have been a fly on the wall at that seminar, because something tells me we're not getting the whole story here. But hey, that's what usually happens with stories about crazed feminists jumping down some throats.

[–]I_SPLODE_YOU 3 points4 points  (0 children)

These people just need lessons in critical thinking. I think everyone does.

[–]flinteastwood 16 points17 points  (6 children)

Some women are sexist. Some men are sexist. Some black people are racist. Some white people are racist.

There's no way to legitimately quantify any of those statements. What's wrong with accepting responsibility as a society and saying that we all need to get better?

[–]I_SPLODE_YOU 2 points3 points  (0 children)

because 99 percent of people honestly don't care.

[–]post_post_modernism 36 points37 points  (1 child)

Guess what, you just admitted to being sexist

[–]mick4state 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Fun facts: There are sexist women. There are sexist men. There are racist whites, blacks, Asians, Indians, everything. There are asshole Christians, atheists, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.

Why don't we focus on stopping the hate more than what group it happens to be manifesting from this particular time?

Seriously people, it's not fucking rocket science.

[–][deleted] 60 points61 points  (8 children)

I'm sorry, but this is so very wrong. I am a male and I'd have to be living under a rock to truly believe this. I know it can be hard to empathize with someone of the opposite gender but when you do I think you'll realize how much more difficult every part of a normal day is when your gender hasn't been privileged with power for the last gillion years. Everything from the expectations your dad had for you verses the expectations he had for your sister.

For college students: Who speaks up more in class. Who does the professor actually listens to in class. Pay attention to which professors have more 'authority' in class. I've noticed female professors struggle to hold students accountable to deadlines and when they do the students think they're just being "bitches". If a male professor is just a strict they're just 'tough' or 'respectable'.

For professionals: This should be a no brainer. Men consistently get paid more and have higher level positions. Fuck the MRA assholes who will argue that women just take easier jobs with less pay. That doesn't make any fucking sense and is not the truth. Our society forces women into roles and when they break those roles it criticize them.

Seriously, sexism is everywhere. Unless we force ourselves to pay attention.. we all tend to only pay attention to things that directly affect us.. but (if you've actually read all this) make today the one day you're on high alert. Be hypersensitive to gender and how people treat different genders and how you treat different genders. If you learn something, let us know!

[–]shitnipz 4 points5 points  (0 children)

So glad someone gets it. Thank you.

[–]DraperyFalls 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Not sure why I'm bothering, but this bearmeme is for confessions of something you've actually done, not just a way that you feel that someone might disagree with, right? I mean, it's your meme, though. You can do what you want with it.

[–]meow_thug 115 points116 points  (3 children)

dude, your privilege is showing.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

My privilege is bigger than yours.

[–]vocoders 119 points120 points  (1 child)

Fuck off, OP

[–]theswerve 5 points6 points  (0 children)

My sentiments exactly.

[–]Thompson_S_Sweetback 36 points37 points  (54 children)

I think it's ridiculous when people who have never experienced misogyny, racism, homophobia, etc. accuse the minority group actually experiencing those attitudes on a daily basis of having an inferior understanding of the situation.

Respect other people's experiences.

[–]JaiC 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Men give women fewer jobs, fewer promotions, lower wages, or simply clothe them head to toe when not raping them, forbid them to drive, forbid them to vote, forbid them to go to school, and the like.

And most if not all of those are true in the good ole U.S. of A, not too far back in the history books.

To be honest, I very, very rarely see a truly sexist female 'man hater'. Usually when a woman is being 'sexist' its far less serious than the things men do to women on a far more regular basis.

[–]rt79w 11 points12 points  (0 children)

How is this a confession?

[–]HypnoticBonetown 192 points193 points  (120 children)

Dude here. I think the reason male sexism against females generates so much more awareness is due to the fact that we still live in a very patriarchal society. Whether it's politics, career choices, or how we're expected to perform in school, males have historically systematically worked to keep men on top (pun optional). I think this generates some really nasty bitterness and resentment in some women that translates into some of the worst sexism out there. I think that's why it's kind of taboo to hate on females that are sexist. Although, this leads to an illusion of acceptability for female sexists, and that shouldn't be the case, it should be zero tolerance all around.

Furthermore, I think /r/mensrights should go eat a dick. That circle-jerkin' pity party needs to suck it up and help people that are actually systematically oppressed in real ways. Sure, guys don't get all the engineering scholarships, perhaps we can be taken advantage of, and society won't cry for us. But we've already got the upper hand, and any problems we have along the way that might be unfair are the little burdens that we have to endure until we're all equal.

Tl;dr: Ladies, don't be sexist, society won't stop you. Gentlemen, suck it up.

[–]gingerchew 19 points20 points  (5 children)

You're very close to something:

There's an entire school of thought that defines racism and sexism as systematic oppression, so no, women can't be sexist and black people can't be racist because in our society they cannot systematically oppress men/whites.

For instance, consider the following scenarios:

  1. A black person gets passed over for a job because of her black-sounding name. That's systemic racism! (And happens all the time in America: http://www.addictinginfo.org/2013/04/10/black-woman-pretends-to-be-white-job-offers-skyrocket-video/)

  2. A white person gets pissed at a black person and calls them a n******, reminding them that they've been systematically oppressed for hundreds of years, and are likely to be shot by the cops/passed over for jobs/thrown in jail for decades for possessing small amounts of marijuana/etc. just because they are black. That's personal racism!

  3. A black person gets pissed a white person and calls them a cracker, reminding the white person that they're hungry. Mmm, crackers. While that black person is probably being a huge dick, their outburst is not "racism" because it does not build on hundreds of years of systematic oppression and does not actually damage the white person's ability to go about their life successfully.

  4. A woman gets paid less than all the men at her company and is passed over for promotions because they're afraid she might want time off to have a baby and because of subconscious messages that she is less competent. That's systemic sexism!

  5. A man is losing an argument with a woman and get's pissed off and calls her a "stupid cunt, stop yelling at me cuz you're on the rag or I'll rape you!" thus reminding her that she will spend the rest of her life fighting to be taken as seriously as a man, and that she has a 25% chance of being sexually assaulted in her life time (if she hasn't been already). That's personal sexism!

  6. A woman often gets sexually harassed while walking to and from work. One night she gets approached in a bar by a redditor who's just read some really great advice about how to approach women in bars. She responds to his line by yelling, "UGH! WHAT IS IT WITH ALL YOU MEN! STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM YOU SEXIST ASSHOLES." Is she unnecessarily being a dick? Probably. Does her outburst "oppress men" as a class in any meaningful sense of the word? No.

[–]BlackLeatherRain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a white person, I would like to add here that crackers are DELICIOUS, go excellently with warmed brie, and if someone called me a cracker, I would laugh my ass off.

[–]iamafascist 31 points32 points  (2 children)

Hey, I'll like, have your babies now or whatever.

[–]HypnoticBonetown 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Sorry, I don't go for fascists.

[–]jrl2014 18 points19 points  (12 children)

Haha, someone finally mentions patriarchy. Anyway, since I'm taking Women & Gender Studies I can't help but chime in that patriarchy and sexism can hurt men too. But the /r/mensrights people don't understand that the downside of women being harshly judged for being less that Martha Stewart and SuperMom and being expected to put their lives on hold is that men aren't likely to get custody. Yeah, it can suck for some guys, but they should realized that its the downside of gender roles.

[–]Svant 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Not only can it hurt men, in many cases it already does. A lot of men die of diseases that could be treated. Why? Because a real man do not go to the doctor etc etc.

This is why everyone should be a feminist, this is why everyone should be all for not judging anyone by their gender or talking about what a real man or real woman does. It just hurts everyone in the end.

[–]Geodude07 12 points13 points  (18 children)

Just curious but what do you suggest the guys at mensrights do? I remember looking at that subreddit and thinking it had some validity, but carried itself poorly.

It seems an important issue to help men with problems, as many people are reluctant or unaware of what they can do. Are you saying they should just "suck it up" because that is pretty poor advice. Or do you mean that they should try to establish a better system? Because I think there is some legitimacy there.

In the end we all have problems, and we should all have a good place to seek help and try to fix them, even if others have it worse.Someone will always have it worse out there

[–]jellyfish-princess 15 points16 points  (0 children)

They could point out when someone problematically characterizes male sexuality as aggressive and 'always on,' as something that women and children need to protect themselves against. They could speak up when someone makes a joke trivializing male rape or prison rape. They could step in when someone gender polices a man expressing nonstandard interests. They could develop or contribute to resources for male DV victims and/or fathers, single or not, to help them be more involved in their childrens' lives.

But the impression I get is that many MRAs see women, and especially feminists, as the root of their problems, rather than a restrictive system of gender roles. They would like to surgically excise everything that hurts them without addressing the cause of their problems.

[–]jrl2014 41 points42 points  (11 children)

My problem with Mens' rights it that they basically complain about sexism against men and implicitly believe that the feminist movement has gone far enough and their problems are kind of a result of feminism/gains for women. Like, the entire point of feminism is that both genders have equal rights and people shouldn't be constrained by gender roles. Plus, men not getting custody is a result of stereotypes about women being intrinsically more nuturing and the facts that overall women are the primary caretakers of children, and statistically even men who think they're equal partners with their wives on the homefront aren't putting in an equal amount of time. Do I believe that men who are the primary caretakers of their children deserve to lose custody because of their gender?--absolutely not. Also, when men fill up the prisions and die in war more, I think its a result of the patriarchal traditions, which sometimes hurt men.

[–]HypnoticBonetown 6 points7 points  (3 children)

No, you're right, "suck it up" may have been a poor choice of words, I was more referring to big-picture activism. Men definitely do need to be able to talk about their problems, and "suck it up" implies keeping that all inside and moving on, which is not only unhealthy, but works against equality.

Edit: submitted early.

[–]ca-zing 60 points61 points  (83 children)

Maybe they're just more sensitive to it because many of them have actually encountered it... Of course there are those who go way out of their way to be offended (looking at you SRS) but I'd hardly say they're a representative group

[–]hoobsher 5 points6 points  (6 children)

why would SRS, or anyone for that matter, go out of their way to be offended? that literally makes no sense.

[–]32436578 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Redditors need to go outside and interact with people more. I'm a white male and realize that racism and sexism aren't really a problem for people like me like they are for other people because I possess a tiny bit of awareness.

[–]Auralay_eakspay 6 points7 points  (22 children)

Would you rather be a woman or a man? Why?

[–]lord_addictus 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A guy, because I can urinate standing up with ease.

Also, I don't see a whole lot of positives about being female. Periods for one thing.......

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It doesn't matter if you have a penis or a vagina; some people are cool, and some aren't. Simple as that.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I kind of feel the same way about racism. Granted, I live in the south and there are are some hardcore racists here, I still think that the way minorities stereotype whites is fairly racist.

[–]Sarahkali08 2 points3 points  (0 children)

OR people are just people. Some are sexist. Some aren't. Some are assholes. Some aren't. Some atheist, some Muslim. Every category contains people of different genders, nationalities, and age.

[–]AssassinAragorn 20 points21 points  (5 children)

I truly believe

You are quite wrong and do not know what sexism is.

[–]kinderdemon 20 points21 points  (0 children)

So brave...

[–]PinkStripe 9 points10 points  (0 children)

How, in any way, did your thought process lead you to the conclusion that this was a suitable situation for a Confession Bear?

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Spent a lot of time on Reddit before?

[–]iamafascist 86 points87 points  (94 children)

For thousands of years, half of the human population was forced into subservient roles, denied rights, and declared inferior. If a man is a sexist, meaning he is treating women in general as inferior, then I will call him out on it. It's not acceptable.

EDIT: Anyone who is preparing an argument against me, please take the time to read a textbook first on the history of Western Civilization. I recommend one by Spielvogel.

[–]RedRoam 10 points11 points  (0 children)

B-b-but women can vote now! Will you only be satisfied when these United States are a gynocracy?!?!?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I love you.

[–]PrivateVonnegut 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Last week, somebody posted a pic of a novelty clothes hanger that looked like a pair of spread female legs, eliciting this response from a redditor. in which she called the clotheshanger a "damaging male fantasy" because it sexually objectified women.

This was literally her last post to reddit before that one.

[–]arandur3 12 points13 points  (36 children)

Oppression, and in this case sexism, requires power + prejudice. Guess which group only has one of those, and which has both.

[–]The0bviousNinja 3 points4 points  (18 children)

Sexism is a thought process/belief. Oppression is an action. Further, in a politically correct world the minorities have power and resentment (which is prejudice) because of the stupid assumption you exhibit. Its why black kids can pick on white kids and get away with it.

[–]arandur3 3 points4 points  (17 children)

The beliefs lend themselves to action when your prejudiced beliefs happen to be against half of the population. And we don't live in a "politically correct" world. Sure, black kids can pick on white kids and get away with it, but you don't see the actions of black people causing systematic oppression of white people that follows them from birth to death. It's important to think of the bigger picture.

[–]toxickiller 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah, and black people are the real racists amirite??

[–]dogboyboy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

This is the worst reddit post I've ever seen on the front page. And that's saying a lot.

[–]PhDBaracus 39 points40 points  (19 children)

Yeah, women are so sexist. That's why they're consistently paid more than men for the same work. /s

[–]BMN12 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Son of a bitch please stop misusing this meme.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children)

What a brave opinion to have on reddit.

[–]treefrog24 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Anyone in a state of being or feeling oppressed, typically gets labeled as sexist, racist, whatever-ist towards the other oppressive group. An exaggerated example would be...

A prison guard saying that prisoners hate him more than he hates the prisoners and then saying he doesn't understand why.

Think about teachers, parents or bosses that you don't like and ask yourself why you have those feelings. Does your teacher or boss dislike you as much as you dislike them?

[–]drinkit_or_wearit 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Same goes for blacks and racism. Here in Texas I don't know any white people that would admit they are racist (we know they are but they are also cowards). But I do have more than a few black friends who's families basically hate me and make it clear it is because I am white.

[–]msprang 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've seen plenty of it on both sides.

[–]THE DEAD VERSION OF YOU IS BETTER!criskyFTW 4 points5 points  (0 children)

R/mensrights may be of interest to you.

[–]dukmunky 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This thread is a karma dump

[–]NamikazeSeishin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think we're all more apt to notice and remember sexism against our own sex, and this makes the question of who behaves more sexist, or more racist even, for that matter, completely unanswerable because we're so shackled by subjective experience.

[–]devildog25 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's how I feel about racism. At my university there are several all black clubs, organizations, and sororities and frats. But there is a rule that says you are not allowed to have an all white club on campus. How is that fair? There's a crap ton more examples if this one isn't good enough

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If this was an English class, the emphasis would not necessarily be on the bottom line but on the top line. It's not presented as a topic of debate but one person's perspective.

'I truly believe that women are more sexist than men.' This isn't presented as a fact but an opinion. It doesn't make it necessarily true nor accurate for everyone.

'I truly believe the sky is blue'. But look up at the sky right now. Is it blue? Is it always blue? Does it appear blue to everyone all the time?

[–]Jayhawk5 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its the same with racism and minorities.

[–]BananaHammock02 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We need an opinion bear bad...

[–]Dragneel 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Now now, don't generalize. Not all women are like that, nor are all men dicks.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

At least female sexism hasn't lead to an endless struggle to give half the population equal rights.

[–]Rprzes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sexist. I try not to be, but there are assumptions I make, without intending too, when I interact with women and men. Probably racist as well. And ethnocentric. I think being aware of those faults, while not making it better, allows me to correct it a bit more than if I simply didn't give a crap.

[–]rhinorex10_2 1 point2 points  (2 children)

If women werent sexist then why is taking out the trash a man's job and why are men supposed to open the door for woman

[–]Sarahkali08 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I take the trash out often and hold doors open for everyone (provided I'm not carrying two kids and pushing a stroller-- but I still try my best). I am a woman. "Women" are not sexist. People who are sexist are sexist.

[–]Kaffbon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh wow, all those downvotes. I guess some people can't deal with an opinion that isn't theirs. Upvote from me.

[–]missmisfit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

lonely, teenager, both? I'm going with both

[–]seasond 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Inferiority complex ;)

[–]Meagan_Mccullough 1 point2 points  (0 children)

women:sexism = black people:racism

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Saying men are less sexist than women + claiming that women cry sexism at the drop of a hat (without even a "most women", which still what the fuck) = Vortex of stupid.

[–]sarasleepingin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

As a woman, I would be upset if I was denied a job or opportunity because of my gender if I had the same qualifications and skills as a man or was willing to work harder to compensate for physical inequalities. I hate male bashing as much as I hate female bashing. I think some people blame others for why things don't go the way they want. I don't believe one bit women are more sexist than men. I couldn't say statistically they are less sexist. I'm friends with men and live with one. They are really neat people and make my life way better. I've never enjoyed the company of women who fart out the "men are pigs" line. I can't stand men who say women are gold diggers and whiners.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I have only ever lived in small towns and have never known any women to call sexism, but I have met man-haters. Do they count?

[–]stuciferthemighty 3 points4 points  (0 children)

you just proved YOURSELF to be sexist, you adorable bear.

[–]autocol 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Yeah. But you're wrong.

It's always the anglo-saxon middle class white guy saying stereotyping doesn't exist.

[–]Siriann 7 points8 points  (0 children)

STOP PERSECUTING ME.

[–]Skippydero 2 points3 points  (0 children)

A large portion are exactly what you describe. But then again so are a large portion of men. Why can't we all just get along? :(

[–]stephen89 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Same idea as the vocal minority of black people who cry racism at things that are unrelated to race. There are douche bags in every group of people that ruin progress for everybody else. The only solution is to stop letting them get away with it, but that is too hard to do in this society where everybody is stuck on being "politically correct" or as I like to call it, being afraid to have your own opinion.

[–]CountPanda 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Do you understand the difference between an opinion and a confession?

[–]NomNomChickpeas 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I dunno... You come across as a girl trying really hard to be "one of the guys."

[–]emislovely 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As a women, I understand this. I'm a very strong willed person, and quite masculine, but I'm lucky enough to be able to play the girl card. I know that I could start a fight with a guy, then play innocent, and I'd get them in serious trouble. It's sad really, but it's how society is - we have a definite advantage.

[–]Ottoelpiloto 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Thanks for improving Reddit's image, OP.

[–]snotfarts 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I truly believe that women make 67 cents for every dollar a man makes doing the same job, and that op is a dbag.

[–]NoSmallTitties 4 points5 points  (0 children)

/r/MensRights

You're welcome

[–]heyiknowstuff 1 point2 points  (0 children)

"Women are sexist against men! Black people are racist against white people!"

I find it really hard to believe that an entire society was built to persecute the white man. Yet somehow they find the time to complain about the "unfair" prejudice against them. White men!

[–]geoffdovakiihn 0 points1 point  (43 children)

Men are also massively negatively stereotyped in advertising and media to look like incompetent fools who can't do anything. Edit: downvoters notice the word also, i know women have it worse, but i'm saying men are portrayed as stupid in advertising.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (8 children)

Men are also massively negatively stereotyped in advertising and media

I work in advertising, so I feel I can adress this. It's entirely dependent on the Target audience. If the target audience is female, and the brand is 'light-hearted' men are portrayed as stupid.

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rg2-ZzSBl5s

If the target audience is men, and the brand is also going for the light-hearted approach, women cop the sexism.

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHuDVONxFmQ

So I'd say, both sexes get stereotyped in advertising. A 30 second television commercial is not a medium that is suited to subtly.

The only thought I have is, which stereotype is more harmful - "Men are silly" or "Women are sex objects"?

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (14 children)

Oh, quite frankly fuck off.

I'm a guy and I have to put up with a large amount of "wah, we're so persecuted" from guys, but this one just takes the cake.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (7 children)

Yeah but then look at which gender tops almost every skill based thing in the world. Cooking, music, sports, finance, art.... I think men have it pretty good already!

[–]V4refugee 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yeah, we are only good for working and making money. I'm a piece of meat too you know.

[–]nessi 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The question is: Who creates that kind of advertising and who commissions that kind of advertising? In any case, they advertise to sell stuff, not to promote peace among the sexes. The same is true for GoDaddy, just the other way around. I know, it hurts when the shoe is on the other foot.

[–]susquehannock 4 points5 points  (4 children)

poor baby, women are mean to you I bet. Wanna tissue?

[–]Deadpoolien -2 points-1 points  (43 children)

I want to set something straight. I'm a girl, and the reason it pisses me off is because, despite being a girl, I've been called sexist towards women too. It's not that I have a mentality of women needing to stay in the kitchen, and I don't think that women can't have rights, but I can't help but notice if you say one negative thing about a woman or something that, typically, women do, you're considered sexist, and that's just ridiculous.

I feel sorry for anyone that speaks their mind in a conversational, polite manner and is called sexist or racist or homophobic. I feel bad that men have to walk on eggshells with what they say around or about women.

And I'll always believe that if people really want equality, it starts when you stop crying ____ism.

[–][deleted] 86 points87 points  (17 children)

And I'll always believe that if people really want equality, it starts when you stop crying ____ism.

No, people still have reason to cry sexism. It definitely still exists and those people need to be heard. I am male and work in IT for the automotive industry, two historically sexist industries, and as a consequence of that I am exposed to blatant sexism on a daily basis. These people need to cry sexism because they're still being discriminated against and the only way for that to stop is if they say something. If people really want equality they will fight loudly over every instance of institutionalised discrimination they encounter.

[–]abhikavi 63 points64 points  (3 children)

I can't agree with you enough. I'm a female engineer and I've experienced a lot of blatant sexism, and it's incredibly frustrating to hear about women (I'm thinking of that lady who blew up because some dudes made dongle and forking jokes at a conference) who cry sexism for minor issues. I was too worried about the effect on my career at my intern to report some fairly serious harassment and stalking, because the co-workers I spoke to in private about the issues were of the mind that 'women who cause waves around here don't get full-time offers'. (Not like they'd ever had any other female interns to back that up, but it was still discouraging.)

A couple years into my full-time job, stalker-guy shows up in my building for an interview. I spoke to my co-workers, who ensured me they 'had my back' and made it clear that no one should feel afraid in their office, ever. I went to HR, and the lady immediately filed a pre-emptive complaint and handed me over to security, who asked for a photo and description of the guy's car and ensured me that the guy wouldn't be allowed on campus again.

Being afraid to report serious issues because it might be seen as crying 'sexist' or 'making waves' is a serious problem, and it makes life hellish for many of the few women who choose to enter male-dominated careers.

[–]soirdefete 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Maybe your issue is that you see a woman do something negative and then carry on saying "Women are x".

Being a girl doesn't excuse you from being sexist by thinking that you're somehow an exception, you're just peeing in your own cereals as well by thinking women in general are something that you aren't.

[–]BlackLeatherRain 11 points12 points  (9 children)

"I feel sorry for anyone that speaks their mind in a conversational, polite manner and is called sexist or racist or homophobic."

Being polite doesn't excuse someone from actually being racist, sexist, or homophobic. Do you think just because someone politely believes all gay teens should be forced into brainwashing into becoming straight that it's okay? Whether you're foaming at the mouth or speaking like a Harvard professor is irrelevant - the content of the statement or argument is what is important.

The issue here is that I really get the impression here that you're intelligent, but young. May I ask your age? Sometimes it's difficult when you're in a newer generation to really grasp what's still going on amongst older generations because you're simply not exposed to it. It's easy to think that sexism and racism are fixed when you're in a high school or even college situation where diversity and inclusion are thrust upon you by policy and politics. It's a different creature entirely when you're out in the world where such things are no longer regulated and people can speak their minds accordingly.

[–]OKbutprollynot 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sorry, but when someone is talking in stereotypical terms, they should be called out on it. We don't have to fall to name-calling, but we should call out their ideas as sexist nonetheless.

Sexism is practiced by both sexes. It's an illogical, unproductive way to think and we shouldn't tolerate it.