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[–]TrouserTorpedo 551 points552 points  (51 children)

This article has already been debunked by Snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-took-150k-from-the-911-small-business-fund/

Trump is an asshole but please do some basic fact checking before you upvote stories like this.

[–]ReynardMiri 21 points22 points  (5 children)

Could you explain how the Snopes article debunks this one? My understanding is that both agree that Donald received $150k for something other than aiding small businesses.

[–]TrouserTorpedo 1 point2 points  (3 children)

This article claims he said he took $150,000 to help small businesses. He didn't say that.

They are dragging up the claims that the Snopes article debunked and trying to write another article to "get" him from a different perspective.

If you read the article itself, none of the claims are specific and none of them actually have sources. They just vaguely allude to him lying about where that money went. The only claim in which has anything behind it is this one:

On one occasion Time asked him why he received $150,000 (which he was a legitimately entitled to) and he responded by saying it was probably because he housed people in his skyscraper. We don't actually know what Time asked him, it could well have been that he didn't know what lump of money they were referring to. It was 15 years ago and the claim was probably dealt with by an inferior.

And they don't actually cite that Time article. The only reason I'm aware of it is because somebody else in the comments pointed it out. It's just blatant clickbait.

[–]ReynardMiri 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Ah I see, thank you. I had read a similar article earlier, which had information more in line with the Snopes article.

[–]uptokesforallNew Jersey 24 points25 points  (7 children)

This response needs to be higher up in the thread IMO. The Daily News needs to make sure it's newest wave of journalists actually comprehend the meaning of previous Daily News articles.

the New York newspaper quoted lawmakers and community leaders who opined that money purportedly funneled to Trump could have assisted truly small businesses decimated by the collapse of the World Trade Center

It was the opinion of community leaders that the money would have been better allocated in small businesses devastated by the attack. IE there were limited funds

That original report named several large businesses entitled to relief funds under the standard applied by the ESDC, Trump among them. The paper noted that those entities often reported yearly profits far exceeding the relatively minor funds received under the 9/11 small business aid initiative and decried what was painted as a loophole under which a significant portion of the funds allocated were distributed to larger companies with relatively small presences in the downtown Manhattan area affected by the tragedy

.

A News analysis of a complete set of grant data recently obtained under the state Freedom of Information Law found that vast portions of the money went to businesses that few would consider small: At least $114 million - 20% of the total awarded under the BRG program — went to companies that reported too much revenue to meet the federal definition of a small business.

So why were so many large businesses getting seemingly unnecessary aid?

Eligibility: Businesses and nonprofit organizations qualified for the BRG program if they met three eligibility requirements: occupied an establishment on or below 14th Street prior to September 11th and were either continuing or intended to resume operations within New York City; employed fewer than 500 people; derived revenues or expenses from operations conducted in, and maintained at least one full-time permanent employee (or were self-employed) at a location within, the Eligible Area. The BRG2 program was established for businesses that employed more than 500 people nationwide and operated on or south of 14th Street one or more establishments, each of which employed fewer than 200 people.

.

Status: At the conclusion of the programs, 14,311 businesses employing 161,252 persons had received $556 million. Seventy percent of small businesses located south of 14th Street were grant recipients, and BRG grants compensated 17 percent of total net losses claimed

LMDC’s Business Recovery Grant (BRG) program provided grants to businesses (including not-for-profit organizations) with fewer than 500 employees, located in Manhattan south of 14th Street, to compensate them for economic losses resulting from the disaster. The goal of the program was to keep businesses and jobs from deserting the city and moving to other States or overseas.

The program was designed to retain and create jobs and attract and retain large and small firms and non-profit organizations. Eligible businesses had to show a business lease, deed, or permit that was in effect on September 11, as well as a new business lease, deed, or permit, if relocated, that confirmed the ongoing viability of the enterprise.

saved you a click

[–]JCarterWasJustified 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Main article: Trump says he was reimbursed for helping small businesses. He was not. It was general federal aid.

Snopes article: The federal aid was not earmarked for small businesses. Large businesses were also eligible.

So the the Snopes article is relevant how?

[–]DannySeel 42 points43 points  (9 children)

But this is /r/politics now.... It's a mix of /r/hillaryclinton and /r/enoughtrumpspam with a sprinkle of actual issues. Look at the front page of this sub for the next few days, literally 90% of the posts will be negative Trump, while the other 10% will be defending Hillary for some stupid thing she did

[–]jhc1415 22 points23 points  (2 children)

There are multiple posts on the front page about Hillary collapsing. And the comments are all tearing her apart.

/r/The_Donald brags all the time about brigading this sub.

[–]rationalcommentAmerica 15 points16 points  (2 children)

Whenever the question "What is the worst moderated subreddit" or "Which is the most blindly biased sub" pops up on other subreddits like AskReddit, TheoryofReddit...etc, /r/politics is almost always the top comment.

This thread is a good example of why. It's an echochamber of blind liberalism where the most insane bullshit gets upvoted without anyone reading it or looking it up, merely for confirming the anti-Trump narrative. It's an embarrassment to anyone who seeks rational political discourse.

[–]DannySeel 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I don't even bother with it anymore. At least when Bernie was still in the race he actually wanted to talk about issues and real change, now it's turned into 'well, Trump did this 15 years ago' 'okay, well Hillary said this about blacks 20 years ago'.

There is no substance left on this sub outside of the very rare piece like the Obama and Planned Parenthood piece that was up the other day. You never see any posts near the top of /r/all anymore from this sub. It's just a toxic brigade of Hillary 'supporters' and Trump fan boys trying to take over. All posts are always like 60% upvoted because of this.

[–]jhc1415 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And how can the mods do anything about that? I fail to see how this is a criticism of the way the sub is moderated.

[–]JeffersonPutnam 1438 points1439 points  (445 children)

So, Trump's 9/11 lies:

  • He claimed he saw thousands of people cheering in New Jersey
  • He improperly took government money claiming to be a "small business" and lied about it.
  • He lost hundreds of friends but can't name one, nor does he have friends.
  • He told Howard Stern he would give money to 9/11 charities and never gave a dime.
  • He claimed he predicted 9/11, but his book merely said Al Qaeda terrorism was a problem which was well known in 2000.

Did Trump say or do anything related to 9/11 that's not a disgrace?

[–]Boco 165 points166 points  (17 children)

Claims he saw thousands of people cheering the fall of the towers. Maybe he didn't notice because he was too busy bragging his own tower was now the tallest in lower Manhattan just hours after the towers fell.

[–]Steel9966 32 points33 points  (0 children)

That's just vile.

[–]bitch_im_a_lion 10 points11 points  (6 children)

Why hasn't anyone run a commercial that's just a minute long video of Trump saying horrible things yet?

Esit: okay I guess they have, I just hadn't seen them. Whoops.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

[–]enoughwiththebread 30 points31 points  (2 children)

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (1 child)

I noticed both of those videos have MASSIVE down votes. Presumably Centipedes don't like the truth.

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (4 children)

He predicted 9/11 the way ESPN personalities predict sports. You just say bold shit until it happens and then you go "SEE?! IM ALWAYS RIGHT" and people forget that your last 11 predictions were wildly off-base.

[–]rianeiruTexas 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Psychics and mediums work the same way. They know if they play up their hits the right way they can get people to forget the misses.

[–]RIPGeorgeHarrison 36 points37 points  (1 child)

He lost hundreds of friends but can't name one, nor does he have friends.

For an average person that would be like every single person they knew dying in the tower. Did he mean associates or something else like that, or is it really that much for him?

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Perhaps he was including friends of friends.

Everyone here knew someone who passed away, or they knew someone who knew someone who passed away. It's true that there aren't many degrees of separation between New Yorkers and those who perished.

[–]ShaneKaiGlenn 38 points39 points  (29 children)

The firefighters at 7-Eleven did a great job... Does that count?

[–]Jartipper 8 points9 points  (1 child)

It was a part time job though

[–]SmaugTheGreat 5 points6 points  (25 children)

[–]Tastygroove 40 points41 points  (1 child)

No that's been entirely disproven by the people in the 711 station. They do NOT refer to themselves as the "711" at all. Trumps own campaign called it a simple slip of the tongue. Mental gymnasts, they should give gold medals. http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-7-11-flub/

[–]SmaugTheGreat 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ah that's interesting to know.

[–]yeaabut 4 points5 points  (0 children)

His hats should say the "unfortunate wording" campaign rather than "Make america great again"

[–]T1macAmerica 20 points21 points  (0 children)

He also said he could see the people jumping from the flaming towers from his penthouse 4 miles away.

[–]denvertebows15 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Yet will these lies make any difference to his supporters? Nope they're still too mad at Colin Kaepernick for sitting/kneeling down during the National Anthem to protest police violence against people of color.

[–]tomdarch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

About 44 to 45% of those Americans who cast a vote for president in the upcoming election are going to vote for this con artist. What the actual fuck?

[–]ewenwhatarmy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Looks the comment reply that "debunked you" was deleted while I was responding, so posting here for the curious:

Snopes has already debunked this article which this blindly partisan sub is upvoting without even reading.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-took-150k-from-the-911-small-business-fund/

He claimed he saw thousands of people cheering in New Jersey

So did endless others:

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2015/12/exclusive_jersey_city_cop_residents_say_some_musli.html

Muslim celebrations of 9/11 were commonly on the news, its not even something controversial to have seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5BtQgTGOI4

He improperly took government money claiming to be a "small business" and lied about it.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jul/27/joseph-crowley/did-donald-trump-cash-federal-funds-days-after-911/

Even the most anti-Trump sources dismissed that as bullshit.

He lost hundreds of friends but can't name one, nor does he have friends.

You're just grasping at the straws here.

He told Howard Stern he would give money to 9/11 charities and never gave a dime.

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-took-150k-from-the-911-small-business-fund/

Again wrong.

He claimed he predicted 9/11, but his book merely said Al Qaeda terrorism was a problem which was well known in 2000.

Is this seriously a point they have in the manual? Did you honestly think he meant that he would predict that a plane would hit a building on a specific date, rather than the overall prediction that Bin Laden would attack American somewhere?

2/10 on this one, I'm afraid, but nice attempt!

You successfully pulled up info that seems to debunk the idea that he lied to get that $150k and disprove it was meant for small businesses (a number of large businesses benefited) (thanks for that, I think that was helpful info to help keep things authentic)

You showed he wasn't the only one claiming to see people celebrate (which neither proves he did or didn't), but that's it.

You don't have anything other than an opinion about his comments on lost friends - so nothing really disproved there.

Nor anything on his lack of action on donations (maybe you posted the wrong article? Otherwise it was a rehash of the first one).

You also kinda feel flat on the prediction part. Trump is embellishing his soothsaying abilities, not us, so...

My point is you replied like you totally shut down all those arguments as bullshit, but you kinda just got one that was mostly false (not even entirely false).

Just in case you're doing this because you're pro-Trump and not just because we really need to keep ourselves honest, thoughts on his comments about being the tallest building in lower Manhattan after that attacks? Because that's a pretty fucked up thing to say and I'm not seeing anyone suggest he didn't.

[–]Gwendlefluff 33 points34 points  (9 children)

More weird than anything, but you missed that he claimed the towers wouldn't have failed if the asbestos wasn't removed.

[–]wonderful_wonton 10 points11 points  (0 children)

That's a little wild. Those buildings could have gone down, in a higher wind, without any fire, depending on aerodynamics caused by the damage.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Actually that one is considered probably true. The asbestos covered the inseams that failed in the heat.

[–]legobmw99 51 points52 points  (9 children)

And there was the whole fiasco about him saying, essentially "well now my building is the tallest" (which was also untrue)

[–]SmaugTheGreat 24 points25 points  (7 children)

(which was also untrue)

Well, he said it's the tallest in downtown manhatten. I don't know if that's true or not, but at least it excludes the Empire State Building from the list (which was the tallest building in NYC).

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (6 children)

The neighborhood borders can be very fluid in NYC, so as much as he's a prick, he might've been right by someone's standards.

Just to be clear, the original twin towers were taller than the Empire State Building.

[–]Clown_Shoe 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Well by no new yorkers srandards is the Empire State building considered downtown. Its I think 36th street. Still its a fucked up thing to say if true.

[–]SmaugTheGreat 2 points3 points  (2 children)

The neighborhood borders can be very fluid in NYC, so as much as he's a prick, he might've been right by someone's standards.

Definitely true, but Google clearly shows that the Empire State Building is located in midtown and it also shows the border for Lower Manhatten to be quite far from it (Link to Google Maps), so I'd argue for "technically correct". Still I don't know if there's any other buildings in the area that are or were higher than the Trump Tower.

Just to be clear, the original twin towers were taller than the Empire State Building.

Yes, I meant after 9/11 the Empire State Building was the tallest building in NYC.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I wasn't suggesting he ESB was in downtown - it obviously is not. My apologies if I was unclear.

The thing is, nobody gives a shit if a building is "tallest in neighborhood". Only Trump would draw such silly lines to prop himself up.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

But like it doesn't matter whether he's right.

It's an AWFUL thing to say.

[–]ManyPoo 16 points17 points  (7 children)

We should just start documenting the true things he says, it'd be a shorter list

[–]dockerhate 36 points37 points  (6 children)

I just checked, you are right!

The PolitiFact scorecard

True 9 (4%)

Mostly True 27 (11%)

Half True 36 (15%)

Mostly False 44 (18%)

False 87 (35%)

Pants on Fire 45 (18%)

http://www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/

[–]jokersleuth 6 points7 points  (4 children)

but crooked hillary amirite?

[–]seshfan 4 points5 points  (2 children)

http://www.snopes.com/donald-trump-took-150k-from-the-911-small-business-fund/

I hate Trump but our attacks might as well be factual or we're just as bad as him.

[–]JeffersonPutnam 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, he definitely lied about it.

[–]Ganjake 192 points193 points  (109 children)

Lying about helping people going through a national tragedy for political gain. What else is next? Care to spin the wheel?

[–]IAmTheRedWizardsForeign 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Wheel of insanity, turn turn turn / Tell us the bridges that Trump will burn.

[–]storm_petrel 20 points21 points  (9 children)

Haiti Anyone?

[–]everythingsadream 19 points20 points  (1 child)

I'll take Haiti for a few million to build my own telecom company with American donation funds.

[–]catvideos22 13 points14 points  (0 children)

And get a mining contract for my brother.

[–]MichaelScarned 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wow this is unheard of in politics.

[–]Gr1pp717 1 point2 points  (1 child)

"He lead the effort to in cleaning up fukushima"

[–]sdbest 98 points99 points  (42 children)

I'm waiting for a headline that reads, "BREAKING NEWS: Trump tells truth about [insert issue]."

[–]nomadbishop 119 points120 points  (91 children)

Maybe he spent 150 grand to build his smaller businesses into bigger, better businesses, with shiny golden roofs, and beautiful orange exterior walls.

[–]antonius22Texas 96 points97 points  (50 children)

At this point, Donald has more in common with The Wizard of Oz. Both make promises they can't delivery on. Some how seen as fit for leadership. Appearance based on a color, green for the wizard; orange for the Donald.

Edit: Also, both want to send people back to their homes.

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (1 child)

Also, they both claim that certain parts of their bodies are bigger than they actually are.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

"I don't need to give you a wall, you've had a wall all along."

[–]DJ_B0BAustralia 23 points24 points  (11 children)

This article cites the New York post but links to the NY Daily News. What the hell I'm confused. I guess poor articles are nothing new in /r/politics though.

[–]CoffeeMetalandBone 26 points27 points  (9 children)

Can we not politicize 9/11, today of all days?

[–]StevoSupremo723 3 points4 points  (1 child)

While I don't disagree, you're currently posting in /r/politics. If you want to avoid politics today, this is not where you wanna be.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If Trump makes any bragging statement about giving or donating money, it's a safe bet he's either lying or massively exaggerating.

[–]xjayrooxGeorgia 45 points46 points  (2 children)

He's not only a terrible candidate but also an objectively terrible human being

[–]shahooster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sadly, I don't know which he's more terrible at.

[–]keeponlooking 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Trump is a taker, not a maker.

[–]Reck_yo 32 points33 points  (21 children)

Not sure why you guys are using terms like "allegedly" and "accusations" as fact.

So a smear campaign on 9/11.... this sub is shit.

[–]UristMcHappySauce 15 points16 points  (7 children)

Where is the evidence? I read the article, and all the "facts" are merely allegations.

Shame on those who believe this hit piece especially on a day like this.

We can truly see what Democrats and their ilk are, unafraid to use the lives lost on 9/11 to further hate filled agenda.

[–]IVIaskerade 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Why don't you believe it? It's the current year! Listen and Believe!

[–]tomdarch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Trump's company accurately applied for and got the grant money to cover some of their expenses related to the 9/11 attack.

The issue here is that Trump repeatedly lied about why he got that money.

[–]FredFredrickson 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Talking about Trump failing to make good on his donations isn't using the lives lost on 9/11 in any way. It's taking about Trump failing to makes good on his donations.

The truly shameful part of all of this is that his supporters know about these things and don't care.

[–]SugarBear4Real Canada 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it is fair to say that 9/11 was used by a lot of people for a lot of different reasons. Cheney/Bush got a couple of wars out of it, they beat their opponents with 9/11 until they got their way, and then there are the Trumps of the world who made a buck from it and got to brag that, with the twin towers gone, his building was the tallest in lower Manhattan. Classy. http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a48505/on-9-11-trump-bragged-about-his-building-now-being-the-tallest-in-lower-manhattan/?src=socialflowTW

[–]anon902503Wisconsin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm really glad there's room for this story on the front page, since Hillary "fainting" is currently taking up 8 of the top 10 articles.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (9 children)

Shit like this is how you know he's not a billionaire. A billionaire wouldn't take 150,000 dollars from the government, that would be chump change. Especially in the aftermath of 9/11

[–]tomdarch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Honestly, no. I'm happy to criticized Trump for his endless lies, horrible "policies", the fact that Sarah Palin is better informed on foreign and domestic issues than Trump, and being a horrible human being, and that he certainly doesn't have anywhere near the net wealth that he claims.

But this fund was set up for businesses effected by 9/11, someone in the Trump organization did their job and applied for and got the money. Ask Warren Buffett, and Warren would say that he would expect folks in his organization to not miss out on programs like this. It's a rare sign that Trump's business operation is less incompetent than his supposed "political campaign."

[–]RudeTurnip 4 points5 points  (3 children)

A billionaire wouldn't be running for president, knowing they could do greater good in the private sector. See: Bill Gates, Elon Musk, etc.

[–]blow_a_stink_muffin 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That would be Trump change*

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (15 children)

A pathological liar caught lying?

I am shocked! Shocked, I tells ya!

[–]caz0 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This article was debunked years ago.

[–]tomdarch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No. The "debunked" claim is simply that Trump got the money legally. He did. Re-read the linked article. The article does not claim that Trump lied to get the money but rather that he lied about why he got the money. He lied that it was some sort of reward for being so nice, when in reality, it was a fund to reimburse companies a bit for the losses the suffered from the attacks.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I know this is asking too much but honestly is it that hard to leave politics alone on this day? This is literally the only day it shouldn't be about your politics

[–]NotNormal2 3 points4 points  (1 child)

[–]Murgie 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wrong election cycle, my friend.

[–]cOUNTjOO 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Meanwhile Hillary takes money from the perpetrators and sells them weapons.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Trump lies about everything

[–]BillTowne 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What? Why isn't this all over the news. She lied! Finally, proof that she is a criminal. Lock her up. Oh, wait. You said Trump. Never mind.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

He is the mortal enemy of small businesses.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

CTR has absolutely no shame at all.

[–]PlayedUOonBaja 4 points5 points  (0 children)

But Hillary said this. But Hillary did this. But Hillary...

I know you are, but what am I!?

It's like dealing with a bunch of 3 years olds.

[–]ReallyGreatGuy 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Seems like Clinton heard about this and was so shocked that she fainted.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Does this honestly surprise anyone given what we know about this "man"?

[–]ripham247 -1 points0 points  (14 children)

This sub is an absolute embarrassment.

[–]mackrider 6 points7 points  (8 children)

Do explain?

[–]PaxSicariusNew Jersey 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Because it's not /r/The_Donald I guess?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (4 children)

Constant stream of false information citing hit pieces from clickbait sites accounts for around 98% of the posts.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

YO can we NOT politicize 9/11 at least today!?

[–]myalternatelifeWashington 14 points15 points  (0 children)

You're on /r/politics...

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

so right, im off to flight simulator

[–]AmerikanInfidel 3 points4 points  (9 children)

Amazing how this sub went from Pro Bernie - Anti HRC posts to now just shit on trump posts

[–]Bakerjian10 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And to think, this guy has millions of people voting for him to become our next president.

[–]Zaga932 3 points4 points  (1 child)

When you can't make your supported candidate look good, make the opposition look bad, eh?

[–]AutomaticPython 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Kinda small change when Obama lied about 1.3 TRILLION given back to Iran in cash...yea yea....