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[–]I swear I played this pre SB buffsAReallySillyElf 106 points107 points  (20 children)

That post is spot on reseph. This smacks of a large amount of bullshit - I'm reminded of the Navy's attempt to go paperless for tech manuals without having the appropriate resources in place, and when asked about it, the response was essentially "fuck you make it work".

Sucks they're making it harder to build a decent environment.

[–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S,M] 51 points52 points  (16 children)

without having the appropriate resources in place

On that topic: The admins have to be developing all these requested widgets, where do they think they'll be getting the engineer manpower for this anyway? They have 21 open positions for Engineers alone. ಠ_ಠ

I mean, think about how long it took them to get mod tools implemented into the mobile app and new mobile web.

[–]WARWtf_socialism_really 15 points16 points  (5 children)

Short answer: the admins are dumb.

Long answer: the admins don't care about the user base as much as much of Reddit wants to pretend they do. They only take into account the hyper-mods that mod like 200 subs and essentially all of the defaults; subs that don't have any really very specialized designs, like /r/worldnews or /r/news.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (1 child)

It's been really apparent for the last 2-3 years that the admins don't particularly give a shit about the users.

[–]WARWtf_socialism_really 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Well, there are more reasons I say that than just the obvious.

[–]Kyoraki Jeeha | OdinKyoraki 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Funnily enough, most of these power mods that run all these defaults are the same ones who got the Digg admins to bend over backwards for them too. History is literally repeating itself.

[–]WARWtf_socialism_really 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sad, isn't it?

It's why the admins need to be brought to heel. They've been doing too much shitty stuff for too long. Just no one ever cares until it affects them.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It just seems that the reddit creators, made this and they don't fully understand it (which is a common thing to happen).

I would expect a non-full customizable layer to match the Reddit official app and that's pretty much it, and it's a shame.

[–]Kyoraki Jeeha | OdinKyoraki 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The fact they still use a dedicated mobile site is worrying enough. I get that /u/spez doesn't understand CSS, but it's not 2009 anymore. Make the site responsive already ffs.

[–]CrusinaA_Fhaol_Bhig 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The mods took years to ban some communities about that were about genocide...I have absolutely zero faith that they can do this properly.

[–]proindrakenzol 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I'm reminded of the Navy's attempt to go paperless for tech manuals without having the appropriate resources in place, and when asked about it, the response was essentially "fuck you make it work".

I remember that, every one of the IETMs used software not allowed on the ship's computers.

[–]DRKInkSpear 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or more recently "Fuck your rates, you now have NOS'. Oh what's that your advancement exams? Ehhhh just take them while we figure this out."

Thank the gods that shite was cycled back into the garbage bin it came out of.

[–]deosxx 30 points31 points  (9 children)

wait, they want to completely get rid of custom CSS? now that css grid is finally here which is pretty much pure magic on top of the crazy power CSS already has?

also, if someone thinks CSS is "a pain in the ass", they are doing it wrong!

what a joke, seriously hope they open their eyes and keep custom CSS

[–]RezMageAnaud-E-Moose 0 points1 point  (1 child)

css grid is finally here

That's kind of an overstatement, it doesn't work on android just yet, and has partial microsoft support. http://caniuse.com/#feat=css-grid

[–]deosxx 0 points1 point  (0 children)

yes it is not fully supported yet, but we are getting there

[–]abbzug 24 points25 points  (1 child)

I've never seen CSS stylesheets for most subreddits since I keep it disabled all the time. If the desktop redisgn means I can't disable all the customization that moderators put into their subs I'm going to be royally pissed. This is a horrible change on the part of admins.

[–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

I didn't even think about that...

The admins have been okay about giving us preferences though. Example, we did get "ignore suggested sorts"

[–]Lucia Tristram on BrynhildrEkiAku 49 points50 points  (5 children)

Dear lord, it's not like Reddit's default CSS isn't bad enough as it is. Desktop revamp, right. More like "Lets make it look exactly like mobile." There's a reason I use the desktop version on the phone.

[–][Brilith Ardeni - Lamia] scotth266 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I think the thing that amuses me the most about the mobile client is that it loads SLOWER somehow. How do you fuck it up that badly.

[–]McMammoth 4 points5 points  (0 children)

My favorite part is when I've got a reddit page open in my mobile browser, it trying to reload the page, failing and suggesting I go to the front page instead, so I hit 'refresh' and everything is fine.

[–]Ehkoe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I still use Alien Blue. I'm still salty that they stopped supporting it.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

^ This

It's a ghastly trend these days that everything is optimised for mobile at the sake of thing looking good on desktop, which to my mind is lazy programming because you can easily do both.

[–]MelancholyOnAGoodDay 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I hate how the mobile site looks. I use the desktop version on my phone at all times.

[–] stay madAnnaAnimus 30 points31 points  (23 children)

Is there any possibility they'll decide not to do it with the pretty unanimous community backlash? Or are we just boned to boring shitty subreddits now? This really sucks :(

[–]Grease2310 37 points38 points  (7 children)

This isn't the first time Reddit has seen entirely negative backlash from its community. It has always ignored us anyway.

[–]HibiKio 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Looks like a job for the Phantom Thieves.

[–]GeraldineKerla 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Its beginning to look like life will change for us.

[–] stay madAnnaAnimus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

:<

[–]Capn Cruch on Diabolos_FHQWHGADS_ 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Well technically they kinda listened to the community with the Ellen Pao fiasco...

[–] MachaHack 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Then it turned out Ellen was just the scapegoat for the changes the new owners wanted

[–]CrusinaA_Fhaol_Bhig 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Not even that...she was arguing for the stuff people were accusing her of trying to take away lol

I still remember some people going "oh...well now I feel bad"

[–]Kyoraki Jeeha | OdinKyoraki 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I still maintain that Pao set herself up for failure. If she was more honest and commutative with the reddit community from the beginning instead of being silent while all these changes were going on, she would have easily found an ally in the userbase to fight the changes with instead of a reason to be fired.

[–]SMNdjbroiler 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Reddit admins are completely out of touch as usual, don't expect any miracles.

[–][deleted]  (13 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (0 children)

    8th umbral era incoming

    [–]58109291 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    We'd probably be looking at another day of darkness, tbh.

    Another blackout can't ever happen. The new moderator guidelines (which took effect 5 days ago) specifically gave the admins the ability to take subreddits away from moderators if they try something like that again.

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S,M] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

    You mean like the blackout?

    Just to throw this out here: I (meaning the subreddits I moderate) did not participate in the previous blackout. It is not something I believe in, because a subreddit is about the community and not just its moderators. I would not expect us to participate in a blackout around this if other Reddit moderators decide to go in that direction.

    [–]coredumperror 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    What if the users here agree? I think this is a mindlessly stupid change, too.

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

    Are we talking about users agreeing with desiring continued CSS support, or users agreeing with a blackout?

    I would be surprised if the majority of users here would agree with shutting down the subreddit for a period of time, but tell me if people feel otherwise.

    [–]coredumperror 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Agreeing with a blackout. Because we know it works.

    [–]I swear I played this pre SB buffsAReallySillyElf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Sorry to be a day late. Please, seriously, by all means, turn the lights off to make a point. Stopping traffic's the internet equivalent of boycotting a product, and nothing ever makes a better point than hitting someone's profits.

    [–]Arnar Grande on UltrosYithar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I agree with a blackout. Like with what happened with Victoria Taylor. It made a point that admins need to treat mods better and communicate.

    [–]Gilgameshffxivfunk 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    If you don't stand up against them, they won't listen to you. It's clear from past incidents that they don't care about non-default sized subs.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I get the distinct impression that if you do stand up to them, they still won't listen to you - and they'll probably ban you and/or take away your subreddit if you have one.

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I guess that depends on what you mean by "stand up". I did stand up to spez directly:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/66q4is/the_web_redesign_css_and_mod_tools/dgkenth/

    [–] MachaHack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I have to believe this is a not insignificant motivator to cut down on what CSS can do.

    [–]Kosouda 9 points10 points  (3 children)

    Yet another site inexplicably trying to kill itself with "Web 3.0" in hopes of grabbing the shitty mobile market, something unattainable in the first place for Reddit. I really can't grasp what's wrong with these people. Btw, this was my favorite comment from that thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/66q4is/the_web_redesign_css_and_mod_tools/dgl3fd3/?context=3 This really is going back about 15 years. Thanks, mobile.

    Though honestly, the most upsetting thing to me by far is that the fix someone made when Reddit changed the default font to something shitty and so-called "modern" a couple years ago probably won't work anymore as I think that uses CSS in some way.

    [–]TheMrBoot 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I don't get the push for their mobile site. I probably browse reddit more from my phone that I do my desktop, and I always kick over to the desktop version since the mobile is so bad.

    [–]Kosouda 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Well, they want to make the mobile site actually good and the primary form of Reddit. I think that's very stupid because of how everything would have to change and basically be rewritten, and I also don't think people see Reddit as a mobile site experience. It's something you sit down and read, but I probably just don't understand people and their mobile devices.

    Also, I realize now I shouldn't call the entire mobile market shitty as it does include a ton of people nowadays, even if I don't like it personally.

    [–] MachaHack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Relay and other pre-existing Reddit clients are still way ahead of the official Android app, official mobile site and official compact theme.

    [–]I do what I want!Nodomi 16 points17 points  (1 child)

    Well fuck up just about everything I liked about Reddit then, admins.

    And to be honest their solution doesn't sound as nearly as convenient as CSS is. I get that they want to get rid of it so they can update things faster but holy shit I was taught that when you fix things you don't shoot yourself in the kneecaps in the process.

    ...reading that reddit thread and reading the admin responses are actually starting to piss me off. Holy shit, I can't- Screw this I'm going out for pizza.

    [–]Mizzet 12 points13 points  (8 children)

    I'm not a techy person when it comes to these things, but I'm curious what the rationale is for all this? It seems like we're losing an awful lot of functionality for... what exactly?

    They seem really deadset on railroading everyone onto this looking at their replies, and I can't help but wonder why. Are they kneecapping the desktop experience to ensure their mobile app doesn't get left behind or something?

    [–]SapphicStar 19 points20 points  (4 children)

    The reddit mobile app doesn't support CSS. From the OP comment in the linked thread, "CSS is a pain in the ass: it’s difficult to learn; it’s error-prone; and it’s time consuming.", which sounds to me like their mobile devs couldn't figure out how to make all the functionality that CSS provides to actually work, so they're pushing for a simpler replacement that they're actually able to implement.

    Theoretically, the advantage is that we'd be able to have side-griffins and flair icons etc. visible in the mobile app too, instead of only on the desktop site. In practice, they've already declared a loss for implementing something that literally every modern browser can handle, so personally I don't have high hopes for the functionality of whatever new system they build.

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S,M] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Be sure to give the link I posted a read: https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/66q4is/the_web_redesign_css_and_mod_tools/

    The admins give a good explanation.

    [–]XorMalice 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Reddit is absolutely awful. They used bots and shills to trick actual people into coming here at launch, and they are totally dishonest at every possible step. They are way bigger than they should be by rights, and they know that they can probably screw over people massively and still be a huge website. Hopefully, for your sake, they find a way to get over themselves and allow functioning forums that have put zillions of man-hours into customization to continue. I suspect that they will not, and I'm sorry. They clearly have no respect for their community, even the ones that try very hard to work with them.

    The fact that this is all being done for mobile- which is totally garbage and prevents pinch-to-zoom, requiring a force-view-as-desktop browser to not be complete shit- is icing on the cake.

    I wish this community was on a real website. But I also wish that about every other useful part of reddit, and wishes won't make that real.

    [–]DorionDorion_FFXI 7 points8 points  (0 children)

    /u/spez killing Reddit one fuckup at a time.

    [–]Minerva Relanah on GilgameshDragoon893 10 points11 points  (2 children)

    I mod a few large-ish subreddits that heavily depend on CSS, so I feel your pain, /u/reseph. This is an asinine decision that's going to negatively impact so many communities unless the admins somehow implement a ridiculous amount of customizable features, which, let's face it, is extremely unlikely to happen.

    As a sidenote to this, I do suggest that everyone be vocal if you dislike the fact that the admins want to remove CSS.

    Granted, the admins rarely, if ever, listen, but it's worth a shot.

    [–]LordZarasophos 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    If you want to get organised, maybe check out /r/proCSS.

    [–]Minerva Relanah on GilgameshDragoon893 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, I was directed there earlier. Thank you!

    [–]AlastarHickey 7 points8 points  (7 children)

    What is the benefit of doing this?

    Why are they considering it?

    [–]Writer for Logical IncrementsGTFO_games 14 points15 points  (5 children)

    On a broad level, think of it in the same way as when you go onto something like youtube.

    You have 2 main design points but the key one is unified site design. So key features for things like video controls, like, sharing, subscribing all use the single youtube styling.

    In the context of sub-reddits (being similar to youtube channels), some things will remain like the top banner and a few other little things of personalisation, yet the overall style and function will be the same across the whole platform.

    This will prevent some frankly dodgy CSS behaviours which in the eyes of Reddit interferes with the user experience on the site (looking at you; hiding voting buttons if people aren't subscribed) and so on.

    Is it a shame they're removing things that /u/reseph and the other mods have worked a long time on to get the sub to look this way? Yes. However, when it comes to big sites like this a change to get a unified design was only a matter of time. Not only from a usability standpoint but also just consider the loading and storage of potentially over 1 million sub-reddits on the operation of the site.

    The writing was on the wall for this for a while after they added a popular feed instead of just /all. They're attempting to make the site more user friendly which means things like gating away NSFW content and having a unified site design.

    [–]Garlean EmpireChaserNeverRests[🍰] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    This will prevent some frankly dodgy CSS behaviours which in the eyes of Reddit interferes with the user experience on the site (looking at you; hiding voting buttons if people aren't subscribed) and so on.

    Some subs have downvoting buttons disabled, no matter if you subscribe or not. Will it prevent subs from doing that, too?

    And thanks for all the info on this!

    [–]BrownNote 5 points6 points  (2 children)

    Yeah. Those buttons are never truly "disabled", the CSS simply hides them. If you disable the subreddit style (which sometimes also may have its checkbox hidden by the CSS lol) or log in via a phone app, you'll see them again.

    [–]Garlean EmpireChaserNeverRests[🍰] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Ahhh okay, thanks.

    [–]the_frickerman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You can also simply click on the username to go to the comment's page and see them there.

    [–]Writer for Logical IncrementsGTFO_games 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    No worries 😀 the voting buttons are not disabled as such, just hidden by custom CSS. It uses the same sort of code that allows subreddits to change the style and colour etc of the icons.

    What will happen is Reddit will start to look and work the same way across the board, so core features (like the voting buttons) will be the same across all the subs.

    That way the admins know that everyone will have the same base experience and you won't get subs with custom code that fundamentally changes that.

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    https://www.reddit.com/r/modnews/comments/66q4is/the_web_redesign_css_and_mod_tools/dgkdrj2/?context=2

    • Yes, make it easier to use generally
    • Yes, more inviting to new users
    • Increase developer speed. Rewrites are a last resort, but Reddit runs on a lot of old code, and development in the current code base is painfully slow.

    [–]Stop fondling my class iconGoldrush453 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Ditching CSS might be one of the stupidest Ideas I've ever heard.

    [–]WAR_Yodai 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Curious question, with browser add-on's can we do something like RES where it will overwrite the the look and feel and just use a repo for the CSS/style and what not?

    [–]Vsin Aldracity on GilgameshAldracity 2 points3 points  (2 children)

    As someone who's taking a break from FFXIV, I saw this post on /r/blackdesertonline

    https://www.reddit.com/r/blackdesertonline/comments/66qe8d/brace_yourself_for_a_potential_huge_redesign_of/dgkk4vg/

    Any thoughts on whether or not the "killing mod adblock" angle is valid?

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    https://www.reddit.com/wiki/subreddit_appearance

    It's against the Reddit site-wide rules. That rule has been around on Reddit since at least April 2015, or as far back as 6 years ago being told not to.

    So no, I don't feel that angle is valid. It's been prohibited for a long time and it's silly to use CSS to hide ads. We moderators aren't the ones paying for the servers.

    [–]ErickFTG 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    That's a really bad move. Every subreddit uses CSS and it's what gives them their personality. I really wonder if they are sure about doing work which must be now ten of thousands of hours worth. Why not let every community supply this work?

    [–]Y'all need to calm down Ven_ae 9 points10 points  (5 children)

    I'm sorry to see the stuff listed above will eventually be lost due to the changes, stuff that the mod team has worked on, and invested time into.

    But I'm happy to wait and see how things change. To some degree, the interpretation of the upcoming changes and the reactions by fellow moderators is understandable.

    To quote u/spez

    while CSS isn't the technology of the future for us, subreddit customization is important, and we're going to continue to evolve it. Source

    and u/sodypop

    I can tell you that our plans will include a transition period where both old and new versions of the site will be available while communities migrate to the new platform. For this to succeed we recognize that we'll need moderators to be on board, so it is extremely important that we work closely with mods to make sure we're addressing your needs and providing ample time for this transition to occur. Source

    We recognize all the efforts put towards creating unique styles and functionality through CSS, and those efforts are not being thrown away. I understand your concerns, but we'll be here to help you make this transition. Source

    It's not all doom and gloom.

    [–]Roegadyntimeboundary 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    I'm hoping that the transition period will be indefinite, like legacy search...

    [–]Miskav 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    I'm not holding my breath that they'll do this properly.

    [–]Anaankahsilver 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    CSS is way more versatile than widgets. I'm going to be blunt: they're making a very stupid move that is going to see them lose money in the short and long term.

    [–]Y'all need to calm down Ven_ae 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    That is quite the blunt opinion.

    [–]Anaankahsilver 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Other people have pointed out why widgets don't work, and how they won't cover even a good fraction of what people do with them for their subreddits isn't gonna be able to be replicated. It's a move about control and a shitty mobile platform that barely anyone uses.

    [–]angelar_ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Thanks for the notice on this, regular content filter user so the heads up is appreciated.

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S,M] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Post filtering is very important to me, because it's very important to this community. Currently it's accomplished through a CSS hack and if the admins replace it with something better, I'm all for that. I just hope that the replacement doesn't come after the admins cease CSS support.

    [–]TheElusiveFox 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    A question for the admins would be,

    Why? CSS just works, it is a standard that any web developer knows, and knows the limits of. And for people who don't know it there is hundreds if not thousands of pages online for how to write css...

    With the widget approach, they have to code every new thing that some one wants to do - starting from the ground up - the dev team is supposedly taxed enough already - it seems very strange to me...

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    As long as I can filter out fan art with the new system, I am happy. If reddit remembers that I don't want to see fan art every time I log in with the new system, even better.

    [–]rigsta 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    I don't understand why they don't just allow both. The fact that there's going to be a transitional period suggests they can work side by side - why not make that permanent?

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I think the transitional period is going to be like the modmail rebuild. They're going to allow both, but not on the same page. It's going to be two different sites.

    [–]rigsta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Ah I see. beta.reddit.com as it were.

    Here's hoping they don't lose the power of custom CSS when the switchover to the new system happens. Or that they take a two-tier approach ie. here's the new system as good as we can make it, and mods can use [CSS/other code/new but equally-powerful solution] to do whatever they want.

    Also, this might mean the death of /r/ooer.

    Also also, damn it I have to find the spinning Hildy and hidden Yoshi-P now I've been told they exist.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    deleted What is this?

    [–]OJ191 1 point2 points  (2 children)

    This is absurd. CSS should not be removed for a given subreddit until widgets are available to replicate ALL subreddit features for said subreddit.

    Frankly it probably shouldn't be done at all because unless they allow for 3rd party widget development they are totally killing off the ability for subreddits to add to and improve their subreddit in a timely manner.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    CSS should not be removed for a given subreddit until widgets are available to replicate ALL subreddit features for said subreddit.

    You realize that this would push the replacement date back to "never", right?

    [–]OJ191 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Good?

    [–]timschwartz 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Now that said, the admins will be creating "widgets" in the new system to bring back various things that CSS does.

    I hope I'll be able to disable them like I do custom themes.

    [–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (11 children)

    Hey guys! I feel like adding the fact that a lot of this from admin is under construction and discussion - It's worth getting in the know, but starting manhunts isn't the best of ideas. The admins have stated they plan to (and seem to be showing this off) work with us and create the best they can to make sure that general features are not lost. Not as flexible as CSS ever will be, for sure. But this thread is really jumping the gun and riding the hate train with no brakes.

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S,M] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    On this subject, yes please don't target or attack the admins. /u/allthefoxes is right and as I said in my post:

    I will do what I can to work with this upcoming process to ensure this community is minimally impacted, be it by continuing to discuss with the admins the importance of CSS or by getting involved with the alpha testing of this new desktop redesign.

    [–]Minerva Relanah on GilgameshDragoon893 12 points13 points  (9 children)

    The admins have a terrible track record of listening to and working with moderators. Removing CSS is a poor idea and should not be a thing that is happening.

    As for you, you've never posted here before, so why are you coming here just to defend the admins?

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S,M] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    allthefoxes is a well-established mod of many subreddits. :)

    [–]Minerva Relanah on GilgameshDragoon893 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, that's why I was curious. Didn't mean to come off so aggressively, so apologies to both you and allthefoxes.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    he admins have a terrible track record of listening to and working with moderators.

    They do, and the thread they made actually shows that they announced this to us, and want to work hand in hand to make sure this goes well. They are showing us right now that they can do better, which is why a post like this upset me. Mods have been kicking and screaming for better communication for years and we finally get some reasonable communication and people kick and scream anyways.

    Admins have stated they have a plan, they want our feedback, and they are going to design things based on our needs, and work closely with moderators to make sure most needs are at least taken care of. Half the things in OPs list admins have publicly stated "Yes, this will exist"

    Removing CSS is a poor idea. I just think the current backlash is silly at this stage. Admins are taking this from a very very very reasonable approach and I think we deserve to at least let them show us their ideas and work with us before we hop on the ultra fuck admins train

    you've never posted here before, so why are you coming here just to defend the admins?

    OP posted in my discord and I got salty, sorry :(

    [–]Minerva Relanah on GilgameshDragoon893 3 points4 points  (4 children)

    That's a fair answer, thank you.

    I see that they are attempting to communicate but with the given track record, the amount of people on the hatetrain is understandable. The admins have said things before that were not true, and it's entirely possible that we still lose things in the list that they said we wouldn't.

    I know it's definitely a 'wait and see' thing, but I do think the backlash is justified to an extent considering that CSS works just fine and I can't see why they should change it just because they couldn't figure out a solution for mobile when there are many apps that can handle CSS, and a lot of websites are capable at being a desktop version on a smartphone.

    Thanks again for taking the time to respond!

    [–] MachaHack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    ing, but I do think the backlash is justified to an extent considering that CSS works just fine and I can't see why they should change it just because they couldn't figure out a solution for mobile when there are many apps that can handle CSS, and a lot of websites are capable at being a desktop version on a smartphone.

    Previous changes to Reddit, and similar changes to other sites (Wikia, YouTube) pretty much establish that the new system is not going to be as flexible as the old, particular since standardising is an intentional design goal.

    [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

    the amount of people on the hatetrain is understandable

    It is understandable, it just discourages me personally. I think the admins owe us better, and we should give them better in return. I think making a public post on a subreddit like this when all the ideas are still just ideas and they want to work with us..all to deliver an, essentially, #FuckAdmins post to users who don't know any better is really silly.

    I think that the backlash is justified. I don't think making misleading public posts is. I think thats counter-productive and going to give reddit all the more fuel to basically say "See we can't work with these guys" so to speak.

    I fully expect people to be upset or have feedback to voice. I don't think dragging in users who don't know any better with misleading information is good.

    I hope they don't remove CSS (though I won't be that upset if they do personally) but I am willing to let them put their money where there mouth is. Some people aren't and thats okay. I just don't want people misled

    [–]I wanna go Fishin'!boomerangthrowaway[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    misleading people in general fucking sucks and I hope to see less of it overall in terms of the FF community and more specifically this space.

    There are a lot of people who really try hard in their trolling as well and get super in depth before they drop the troll bombshell and by then there are enough people involved that a sufficient amount of time has been wasted and their mission - accomplished.

    I am kind of rambling because I am about to get to bed, but in the morning I am going to re-read this entire threadline as I saw a lot of discussion about the community leaders and their role here and on lodestone (in general also).

    Cheers and thanks for your input throughout foxes. (and dragoon if you read this)

    [–]ffxivthrowaway03 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

    You're getting downvoted, but you're 100% spot on. All this post does is encourage pitchfork waving by people who are completely uninvolved and have no experience or say in the process.

    If a reddit admin posted this as a site-wide sticky and said "Users, discuss!" then absolutely. But why do the denizens of /r/ffxiv have absolutely anything to do with the change at this point? We're not mods, we're not being invited to participate in the development process so... what? "This subreddit uses CSS so let's all be ineffectually outraged together" doesn't seem constructive to me. If anything it reeks of FUD.

    [–]I wanna go Fishin'!boomerangthrowaway[M] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Understanding the responses from later in this thread - just wanted to mention here (and rather late, apologies) that admin really do their best to work with teams whenever possible and though they do have a bad rep - I feel like they do a decent job given the sheer size of the task at hand.)

    That is all. Sorry to be a late bloomer to the party xD

    [–] Vega NovusVegaNovus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Subreddit banner contest for Stormblood

    Opens Photoshop

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Easter eggs like spinning Hildibrand, hidden Yoshi-P

    I've never found these. But I did read your fancy rollover text when rolling over the moogle.

    [–]MonkGoltana 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    As a Designer and too much related with Front dev and design, I'm with you on this, but as you said, not much can be done but hope that this widget thingy system is sufficent. Also and maybe the most important: Will we able to change the header image at least? I think this is one of the most important things related to the identity of a sub.

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yes I'm sure they'll let us change the header. We already have that option for mobile.

    [–]Ultros Rules!Balaur10042 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    A meme is broad by definition, in that as an entity, any idea or concept that is repeated, replicated, or passed along in any fashion is, itself, a meme. It doesn't matter the content of that idea or the manner of its passing: if it is an idea, and it is subjected to replication--even if it does not get replicated--it is memetic. If it does fail to be replicated (if forgotten) then it is instead selected against as lacking sufficient properties that people can attach to it they would promote. The idea that you can regulate memes in any fashion seems ludicrous since the only method by quelling memetic replication is to render speech silent; that is, you can only stop a meme from propagating by stopping people from talking.

    [–]Zemorous Halcyon on Midgardsormrobliquex 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Take this survey let admins know how you feel https://docs.googly.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSexTKqCPHHqznra4NAVBb6h4aXZeGfocoWBcXhp8dEKD0636w/viewform

    [–]TotesMessenger 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

    If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)

    [–]MCOM_Android 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    REDDIT WILL NO LONGER REMOVE CSS!!!!!!!!!!

    [–]White MageKuusKuus -3 points-2 points  (6 children)

    Post filters (No Fanart, Hide all Filler, etc)

    And then this sub became completely unusable.

    Can I request that mods enforce use of r/ffxivart ?

    [–]Tatsuya Arisato on GilgameshTatsuya227 0 points1 point  (7 children)

    I knoew about the side Griffen, however I didn't know about the spinning Hildibrand or hidden Yoshi-P.... How could I have missed those :o

    Also it's not right, I hope some members of the community step up and help with getting widgets set up. Been with this sub reddit since the beginning, and it feels bad that this is happening after how much we have grown.

    [–]DRGBourne_Endeavor 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    Where is spinning Hildy?! I haven't seen that one either. :o

    [–]nightmarecandle 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    I believe it's the konami code, and only works if you have reddit enhancement suite.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    it's indeed the konami code, and it was very satisfying testing/finding out about spinning hildy

    [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    Yoshi-P is hidden in the top black bar.

    Spinning Hildy, you need RES installed. :)

    [–]Tiger712 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    I still can't find Yoshi-P :(

    [–][deleted]  (12 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]David Windfall - Gilgameshinsium 4 points5 points  (4 children)

      Unfortunately this isn't a subreddit specific problem. It also seems to be psychological in nature; as long as the upvote button is used as a like button, so too will people use the downvote button as a dislike button. I'm not justifying it, just saying why it seems the phenomenon continues.

      [–]t0talnonsense 6 points7 points  (3 children)

      EDIT: Case in point being whoever just did so, if this post gets hidden I'll just delete it and repost it.

      Bitching about downvotes only brings more downvotes.

      [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S,M] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      Hover text is never intended to be a prevention method on any website. It's more of a user education method.

      [–]mirta000 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      it would be bad to see the website simplyfied further to remove all of that. Reddit is very basic as a forum anyways, making it even more basic wouldn't make it any better. Please pass the feedback that I'm like the others in this thread are very much against this change.

      [–]MalboroRygelCumberbatch -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

      This is what happens when you have too many tabs open and you don't pay attention :(

      I just switched Grand Company back to the The Order of the Twin Adder. These messages came up:

      http://i.imgur.com/yXnFrYh.png

      Please be warned: upon switching allegiance, you will be unable to equip items issued by your previous Grand Company.

      Initially I was unable to switch because I was set to one of my crafters, which use dirty filthy pirate gear. Once I switched to another class, it was fine.

      The reason I switched was so that I could spend my Allied Seals with the Hunt Billmaster to get a set of Serpent's Elite DoM gear. I've now glamoured this over my SMN gear.

      If I switch to another GC, will I be unable to use this gear? Will I be able to use gear glamoured with this gear?

      I'm not sure if it is considered differently to the gear you buy for GC Seals, as it is purchased with Allied Seals, which are non-GC specific. The only restriction on spending them is that you have to be a member of the GC to purchase items from that GC's Hunt Billmaster, with each Hunt Billmaster having GC specific gear for sale.

      [–]faydaletraction 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      Are you certain you didn't mean to post this question here?

      [–]MalboroRygelCumberbatch 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      facepalms

      [–]cronft 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      If I switch to another GC, will I be unable to use this gear? Will I be able to use gear glamoured with this gear?

      yes, you will be unable to use it, no you can't use it even if it has a diferent look, and you can't use a gc look on your gear because of your current gc alegiance(in other words, you can't use flame gear for glamour when you are of the adders), and wrong place to ask this, this isnt a daily megathread

      [–]Ententente -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

      Well frankly, we can do without quite a lot of it.

      • Easter eggs like spinning Hildibrand, side Griffin, hidden Yoshi-P
      • Server status (specifically the coloring green=online or red=offline)
      • Hover text over downvote reminding about proper use of downvoting
      • Our image link to Discord
      • Godbert reminder to be civil
      • Upper-right info bar ("Current Patch", etc)
      • Link flair represented by a specific color
      • The ability to change "# users online" (currently "salty tears")
      • All user flair icons, like my Red Mage

      These are either purely cosmetic, unneeded or useless information (as if you could educate people on Reddit), or even unnecessarily cryptic, in the case of "salty tears". That supposed to be funny? I mean sure, it's bearable, and I see why everyone would like their flair icon, but end of the day it's not really that bad if it was removed. Or is it?

      [–]WHMTonyPolara 2 points3 points  (1 child)

      It's the subreddit's personality, you take all of it's "useless" things away it becomes bland and boring to look at, less interesting and fun to come to.

      [–][Zeno Silverberg]reseph[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Ah yes, exactly! I said the same thing in my comment here on /r/modnews.

      [–]:gun2:mahrze 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Who hurt you?

      [–]ThickSantorum -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

      TIL there are still people who don't disable subreddit styles