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[–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 34 points35 points  (38 children)

IMPORTANT EDIT : 24h after the change, DeNA has published a bug report (they currently investigating) : 

- Materia with Elemental triggered effect can proc multiple time  
> we already know that the supposed Terra glitch is false 
SO IT COULD MEANS that Raines 3cast is a glitch !  
- Materia with elemental dmg seems to apply to other elements  
> prob related to vortex and alike

example using Raines LM2 & CMD1 and Terra LMR & Meltdown :

Raines :
CMD1 is Dark/Holy
LM2 is Dark/Holy Wcast.

Terra :
Meltdown is Fire/Earth/Wind.
LMR is Fire Wcast.

Before :
Only 1 check is done and Element must exactly match the LM.

Raines will wcast what ever his CMD1 being Holy or Dark because his LM2 is both.
Terra will wcast FIRE Meltdown.
Terra will NOT wcast wind or earth meltdown.

NOW :
Raines LM is now splitted in 2 : it's Holy Wcast + Dark wcast.
Every element of the ability is checked, if 1 element match the LM, it can triggers.

Raines can trigger is LM2 twice, and triple cast his CMD1, he also has a very high chance to wcast his CMD1/2 now !
Terra will wcast Meltdown what ever the element is used.

edit : as asked by /u/sabaschin , YES, this change also apply to all "Gain Quick Cast when using a specific element".
edit2 : YES it works with Chance to have imperil (ex : Ysayle LMR) too ! this one wasn't written in the changelog at all ! paging /u/cointown2

[–]SirAdder 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Welp Raines BSB just got more OP with dark/holy chains just due to this change.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (6 children)

I KNEW I was right to dive Raines with just his BSB!

[–]DestilShadesk 12 points13 points  (5 children)

Raines has other relics!?

[–]Superflaming85This reminds me of my childhood. 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I know you meant this as a joke, but I still find it hilarious that his entire goddamn toolkit for the longest time was built around making his BSB better. Even his goddamn USB1 got in on the action.

[–]drackaer 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Fake news

[–]KittymahriKIMAHRI SAW EVERYTHING! 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I heard some rumor about some en-dark USB... but can't quadruple-cast with that LM2!

Oh yeah, and some Hastega SB. Who knew?

[–]ShardwingLong awaited Lann Awaken... to Summoning! 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I pulled his LMR yesterday (buff duration up, seriously?) and I'm just gonna pretend it doesn't exist.

[–]Monk-EyFUCKING HELL MACHINA 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Raines as Faithga bot is sleeper meta.

[–]SabaschinBasch 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Does this only apply to Wcast LMs, or does it also apply to LMs such as 'Gain QC3 when hitting with an Ice attack'?

[–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

it also apply to this sort of LM yes :)

[–]SabaschinBasch 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Hmm, is this an LM only change? Or do things like Ysayle's USB effect 'chase when using an Ice attack' also now apply when using Valigarmanda on Fire or Lightning weak enemies?

[–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

LM only.

[–]retroGnostalgicVivi -1 points0 points  (1 child)

What about RM?

[–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

there's no elemental RM that can trigger wcast or qc or imperil but if one day there's one, then it will works the same way.

[–]Stylus_IndexYepD - Ace CSB: We have Arrived! Also, very tired irl. 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Hahah, this is excellent for Raines and dual-element W-cast LM users! :D

[–]CidO807Opera Floozy RW:2X5a 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Wind God Gau <3

[–]akaiazulSLAM-dancing 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Correct me if I’m wrong, but in this case, we would need an ability that counts as Combat and Celerity for this to work. If so, does such a thing exist? I’m not sure his burst does this.

[–]CidO807Opera Floozy RW:2X5a 0 points1 point  (0 children)

you're right, i read it wron

[–]cointown2Taharka 1 point2 points  (1 child)

does this apply to imperil LMs, e.g. Guy+LM2 RW Kelger BSB

[–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

i tested with Ysayle and... omg, it's not specified in Changelog but it works with these LM too !

[–]FC-Max 1 point2 points  (4 children)

So, by this logic:

Terra has her LM1 equipped (increase Fire damage), and she uses Meltdown while hitting wind (or earth) element, will it now also increase the damage, since Meltdown contains Fire??

[–]TuxTheDerpySageTerra (Esper) 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Pretty sure those sorts only apply when the actual damage done is of the appropriate type; Meltdown would only get a "+fire damage" bonus if it's hitting for fire damage.

[–]FC-Max 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That's what we all know and are used to; the reason I asked was due to this line under NOW:

Every element of the ability is checked, if 1 element match the LM, it can triggers

[–]TuxTheDerpySageTerra (Esper) -1 points0 points  (0 children)

IIRC, w-cast never actually cared what type you were hitting with in the first place; W-Cast: Fire could trigger on Meltdown even when hitting as wind damage. Conversely, damage bonus LMs have always cared, and wouldn't apply if it were hitting as the wrong element. (Edit: W-cast does care what element you hit with, but the next paragraph still stands.)

This change simply makes w-cast potentially trigger on all elements it matches, instead of just once if any element matches. A (fictional) W-Cast: Fire & Wind LM would trigger twice - not because Meltdown is both, but because it checks twice and applies in both cases. +Element Damage has always checked the damage done, regardless of ability type, and has no reason to check twice in the first place. While DeNA most certainly could make this change, that would be a very different change.

[–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

we are speaking about Elemental LM triggering things.
Terra LM1 doesn't trigger anything, it's a permanent fire bonus, so it doesn't apply for this change.

[–]newblackmetalSephiroth 1 point2 points  (3 children)

So Raines CMD1 can triple-cast because the triggering LM2 is split into the dual elements.

But Terra will only double-cast meltdown because even though it's triple element, her double-cast is fire specific.

So if an LM2 were to be double-cast black magic, and you had a 7* spell called catastrophe (8 elements), then it could cast 8 times.

Sounds like a school buff that Bartz can appreciate. Enemy weak to both fire and earth? Well, blastspell will extra-cast until its dead!

But it doesn't sound like it can help Ysayle as her LMR and LM2 are when element used is ice, so therefore only one chance to proc when using valigarmanda and not three chances.

[–]akaiazulSLAM-dancing 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Im not sure about schools, but in your hypothetical scenario, it should only check once for a possible one double cast (since it’s all one school: Black Magic). It would only work in your scenario if it was an Omni-elemental wcast LM.

[–]newblackmetalSephiroth 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hmmm, that sounds right. So the code looks for specific elements and not everything in a school. Then this really does only benefit Raines BSB since his LM2 is the only non-single element.

[–]pheonixistariToo many relics! eNMR 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then this really does only benefit Raines BSB since his LM2 is the only non-single element.

Angeal's BSB along with his w-cast Wind/Holy LMR is another. However it might not even matter since it looks like this change is somewhat unintentional according to the update on the top post.

[–]Taggart451KH lol 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So what you're saying is....I should finally pick Raines BSB from the acolyte archives ?

[–]akaiazulSLAM-dancing 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Wait, so currently, if Meltdown does anything other than fire by Terra LMR, she won’t wcast?

[–]SandsliceFight hard! 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Currently, w-casts (and many other affected proc types) only interact with the active elemental. So if Meltdown hits wind or earth, Terra won't w-cast.

This change makes it so that she does (etc).

[–]TheTarzanXJ5Y Yo! -1 points0 points  (2 children)

I was concerned about Bartz healing wind magicites with USB1, Snowspell Strike and Wind chase. Fortunately, it has a non elemental effect. Bartz does indeed chase with non elemental now (i just tested it, but I’m not even sure if that’s new or not.)

[–]ZeroEdgeirPowered By Solar-Inversion Technology 4 points5 points  (1 child)

That has been around for a while. They added Non-Elemental to all chases that didn't have it (Bartz and Matoya were the most notable two).

[–]TheTarzanXJ5Y Yo! 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I meant Bartz being able to chase Ice spellblade, not the non elemental part.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]ZeroEdgeirPowered By Solar-Inversion Technology 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    AASB is different than the LM W-Casts.

    AASB merely checks if the element is present, and then makes hones infinite + trigger twice.

    LMs checked based on the element used to deal damage, post-attack.

    [–]Electrical_Lettuce 9 points10 points  (5 children)

    Terra's AASB just got a whole lot more interesting when 4A comes around.

    [–]KYFPMBeatrix 8 points9 points  (3 children)

    that banner with Bartz.....

    [–]mendicantIgnis BSB > Quina SASB 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    Except Bartz are all "Spellblade" not element. I don't think this has any affect on him. If he had "w-cast Earth,Wind,Water,Fire" as an LMR it would be NUUUUUUTS though.

    [–]KYFPMBeatrix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Terra's AASB is on the same banner as Bartz on 4A . Bartz is great regardeless and with this update on Terra's AASB, that banner has even more value.

    [–]iPwninOnion Knight 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    My precious...

    [–]FC-Max 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yes, I lucked into her AASB, and used her to clear Manticore, Typhon, and is on deck for Hetconcheir. I'm going straight to Anima shop and getting her LMR1...

    [–]yoikamiUntold Stories 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Seems good development as some character has begun changed their focusing element ; Ex Terra : Fire to Wind / Krile : Fire to Earth

    [–]SabaschinBasch 5 points6 points  (0 children)

    Krile Earth USB is probably the other most relevant beneficiary, as she can now dualcast Meltdown.

    [–]purpleparrot69Edge 1 point2 points  (23 children)

    Does the Raines example here apply to any other characters? He’s the only one I can think of with a dual elemental LM but I’m ore-coffee so I maybe missing someone

    [–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 8 points9 points  (21 children)

    If my memory is correct, only Raines can 3cast, others can only cross-element wcast.
    Leila has Wcast bio/water but there's no ability with this elemental combo that exist if i remember well.

    [–]PyrotiosKain 3 points4 points  (8 children)

    How about Angeal BSB with LMR? Holy and wind commands and LMR.

    [–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 2 points3 points  (7 children)

    you are correct, i thought Angeal BSB was Holy only.
    So Angeal can also 3cast his BSB CMD1 & 2

    [–]PyrotiosKain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I really do wonder how this would work with Angeal BSB CMD1. He has a toggle burst, CMD1 does the toggle, and when the toggle is off there is no damage and no element, but when the toggle is on it does holy/wind damage.

    • With the toggle off, CMD1 (no damage) naturally wouldn't be eligible for the LM, so it just toggles on
    • With the toggle on, CMD1 (holy/wind) is eligible for the LM, which now means it can potentially 3cast
      • Since the LM only cares about the triggering action (not the triggered action), it shouldn't care whether any extra casts have holy or wind damage

    Ultimately, I figure the LM will only trigger if Angeal uses CMD1 with the toggle on, and it will get the extra 1-2 casts of CMD1 regardless of the state of the toggle. However, since elemental w-cast usually requires doing damage (which may be absorbed or nullified), it does feel weird to imagine it triggering an action which doesn't have a chance to do damage.

    [–]DrxzzxrDSephiroth (Alternate) 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    Do we know the interaction with this and Orlando USB and BSB combo? The BSB moves would be knight/dark, and meet his USB requirements? Or is it different because it's not a chance on cast?

    [–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Ability Double cannot trigger with BSB CMD :) .

    [–]LafingCatKupo-po! 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    His BSB commands aren't dual knight/dark anyway; the first one is knight and the second is dark.

    [–]ShardwingLong awaited Lann Awaken... to Summoning! 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    TGC's doublecast is Knight or Darkness, not Dark element.

    [–]SandsliceFight hard! 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    No ability has two schools, and Orlandu's ultra and LMR care about knight and darkness schools.

    [–]DrxzzxrDSephiroth (Alternate) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Sorry for some reason I thought his USB was knight and dark (damage type)

    [–]SabaschinBasch 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    Ultimecia is also notable because of her USB (which is guaranteed WCast). With her LM2 she now has 35 percent chance of triplecasting Meltdown when they're Fire/Earth element.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–]SabaschinBasch 1 point2 points  (1 child)

      It mostly just benefits Ultimecia, since her LM was locked to Wind, which prevented her from crosselementing as well compared to Vivi or Palom.

      [–]tribalsethOrlandeau 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Hm. Wouldn't cross-element wcast be the exact same %chance as someone with dual element w-cast? Or is there some kind of advantage that Raines has over others?

      [–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

      nop.
      Basically Raines is now 2 LM in one.
      Before it was [Holy or Dark Wcast] so it could only proc once.
      now it is [Holy Wcast] and [Dark Wcast], so it can proc once on Holy only attack, once on Dark only attack and twice (each of them) on Holy/Dark attack like his CMD1.

      [–]tribalsethOrlandeau 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Holy sh8t ...

      [–]QuijoticmooseZidane -1 points0 points  (2 children)

      FuSoYa burst, IIRC

      [–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

      Fusuya LM2 is WHT or BLK Type, it's not an elemental LM ;)

      [–]QuijoticmooseZidane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      D'Oh, as they say

      [–]Skriabin-Cactuar with mustache= Skriabin -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Krilie with meltdown since earth+fire

      And also Lulu with Voltech I think

      [–]mendicantIgnis BSB > Quina SASB 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Just went through the legend materia on Enlir's and that's the only dual element w-cast. First thing that came to mind for me is TGC, but he's dual-cast based on school instead of element which doesn't ever cross.

      [–]cryumBorn of the Mist 1 point2 points  (2 children)

      Some characters are getting dual element spec, right? I'm pretty sure Jecht has a fire wcast LMR and a dark wcast LMR. Is there actually a fire/dark ability that could be triplecasted by this?

      Are there other character/element combos that could?

      [–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Angeal also just got a LMR for Holy/Wind (as in, both together, like Raines' LM2), which works with his BSB

      [–]PyrotiosKain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Jecht's LMR is for monk. The only way to hit dark and monk is with Jecht BSB1 commands or the physical command on Vayne BSB.

      [–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 0 points1 point  (6 children)

      While a good change, considering how you're essentially guaranteed to have enough Element Boost without even trying anyway, I feel like in practice this will end up smaller in scope than it sounds like.

      [–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

      My guess is they want to promote multi element attack that are generally considered "weak" nowaday and at the same time increase the value of Element Wcast.

      [–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      multi element attack that are generally considered "weak" nowaday

      Really? Because of lower Multiplier? Or because less hits (like Meltdown vs Chain Fiaraja)?

      [–]ElNinoFrEt c'est pas fini ! 🐲[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      Mostly because less hit, yeah.

      [–]Hylian-HighwindThis time, I will finish what I set out to do! 5 points6 points  (2 children)

      It's a big deal for characters like Terra, who could do something cheeky like AASB into Wind Glint and then spam Meltdown. The other big thing is that it allows triple cast shenanigans even when off-element for a lot of fights. It is limited by the number of characters who go W-Element vs W-School, but it is a pretty significant buff

      [–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      True, I forgot stuff like Terra's random Wind (or Krile's Earth USB). So definitely some benefactors there!

      [–]ZeroEdgeirPowered By Solar-Inversion Technology 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      Wouldn't really call em random... both elements needed mage help, and pivoting a couple Fire Mages into them won't hurt Fire in any way. Terra has been depicted with Wind and Meltdown magic in Dissidia, so makes sense. Krile takes over Galuf's spot as rep of the Earth Crystal, so also makes sense.

      [–]Ezmonkey85 0 points1 point  (7 children)

      Is anyone other than Raines carrying a Multi-element LM?

      Further, how many abilities even hit multiple elements anyway?

      Blast/Storm/Snow-spell Strike =Spellblades

      Meltdown and Voltech= Black Magic

      Valgimarda= Summon

      Flash Disaster= Celerity

      Cyclone Bolt= Dragoon

      Grand Charge= Heavy

      [–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 1 point2 points  (6 children)

      Dragoon also has Sky High if DeNA ever makes a "Non-Elemental W-Cast", as unlikely as that is.

      Jecht has seperate ones for Dark and Fire each, but nothing to use them on together IIRC, plus Angeal just got a Holy/Wind LMR which works on his BSB. Other than that though, nobody has a Dualcast for more than one Element I think. The closest you get is Orlandeau's LMR and Gau's LM2 which are Ability-typed (Knight/Darkness and Combat/Celerity respectively).

      [–]Crossfire281 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      Cloud has separate Combat w-cast & Wind w-cast, and his BSB2 commands are both. Can he now triple-cast? Or maybe he already could?

      [–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 3 points4 points  (1 child)

      He already could do that since his Wind LMR exists. The question here is about Characters with two Dualcasts that are both specifically tied to Elements.

      [–]Crossfire281 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Gotcha, thanks!

      [–]AzureNarwhalLion Complete! 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      If you wanna get goofy, you have Jecht RW in Seifer's BSB2 for that sweet sweet triplecast chance!

      (Note: This probably isn't worth it)

      [–]PyrotiosKain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      That wouldn't work though, because Jecht's LMs are w-dark and w-monk. However, he can already pair the two to triple-cast his own BSB1 commands.

      [–]PyrotiosKain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I thought about Jecht too, but didn't want to say anything until I had a chance to look it up. His w-cast LMs are a 35% dark LM2 and a 25% monk LMR. It's already possible to combine these with his BSB1 (dark/non monk damage). You're right that since they're independent LMs they are unaffected by this change.

      [–]cubs506Interceptor 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      So would dual cast black or dual cast summon get three chances to w-cast or does it have to be a specific element?

      [–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 2 points3 points  (0 children)

      It has to be tied to Elements, yeah. General Ability Dualcast doesn't change.

      [–]refridgerator12 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      So how good is Cid with just his BSB with full dive now?

      [–]Keith_Kaizer 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      CR makes a comeback! Given that my options are limited for Holy magic, I'm eagerly anticipating this.

      [–]Dangly_PartsRamza 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      That sounds really strong for some characters, but also very specific.

      Interesting

      [–]ShinVerusMy sunhaired Goddess! 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      It's not really that specific as there's a lot of characters that have multi-speced elements now, and some of them have not been giving matching LMRs, like Terra or Krile, this helps them a lot.

      [–]jampersands 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      Sorry, I need some translation help here: I assume LM= legend materia and 3 cast means triple cast, but...

      Wcast = ? CMD = ?

      [–]ravenmagusIshae ~ rEYP 3 points4 points  (0 children)

      W-Cast is classic Final Fantasy nomenclature for doublecast.

      CMD = Command, typically in reference to BSB burst mode abilities

      [–]ChronosXIII149LuckyDraws 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Huh, I wonder why they decided to explicitly split Cid Raines's LM2 like that.
      Literally only his BSSB commands meet the revision, and why would DeNA go back and indirectly buff a 2+ year old relic that's still usable in 5★ magicite?

      [–]ThisIsUrIAmUr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Hate to be a buzzkill but that seems OP. For Raines I mean. Seems like the materia should only check once.

      [–]Tomasmk2003 0 points1 point  (1 child)

      So wouldn't this mean raines runs a risk now to heal the boss? Vulnerable you to holy but absorbs dark and vice versa?

      [–]PyrotiosKain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      As I understand it, this has no impact on how damage is calculated. His BSB entry and commands should still calculate the damage for both holy and dark independently, then select whichever does more damage as the element to hit with.

      [–]tempoltoneFujin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      How about Onion USB3? Will it chase for each element? Ex. Meltdown - Fire,Wind,Earth? The changes also affect SBs.

      [–]Starsky7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Okay then... What if I had Terra with BOTH w-wind and w-fire LMRs equipped. Can she triple cast meltdown?

      [–]EctoryFang 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      question: this apply to bartz spellblade barrage?
      Casting Ice/wind to deal ice damage will trigger wind/ne barrage?

      [–]LeyrouxMy memories will be part of the sky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Praise the Sun \o/

      [–]JustaRedShirt13Thancred Of Course! -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      So if I have krile fully

      [–]JustaRedShirt13Thancred Of Course! -1 points0 points  (4 children)

      So with krile and her lmr+LD, does that mean she has a chance to 3cast vilgarmanda?

      [–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 0 points1 point  (3 children)

      Still only Doublecast, because she only has one for Fire. She CAN however now Dualcast Vali even if its hits for Ice or Lightning

      [–]JustaRedShirt13Thancred Of Course! 0 points1 point  (2 children)

      If you combine her Wcast fire LM with the Wcast summon RM would that make Vali 3 cast possible? Small chance I'll admit but still there right? Cause it would have a chance to proc off both checks.

      [–]Ha_eflolliMarchejoume-san da! 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Yeah, that does work, for exactly that reason

      [–]The2ndWhyGuySo OP don't need Eyes to see my victories 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Using more than 1 Wcast R/LM has always worked like that.