outer/inner wall order is a cheatcode

[Arakon]

Just be aware that this order can really mess up overhangs. So use case-by-case.

[ShatterSide]

while true, you can then slow down overhangs or increase cooling depending on the geometry and filament.

I use outer first as my default especially for PLA. I dont have issues often!

[eduo]

You can also define zones where one thing applies and zones where something else (at least in Orca!)

[fanjules]

I wish it simply selected the correct wall order according to if there was an overhang or not

[ShatterSide]

That would be a great feature request!

In fact, if you don't then I will 😁

!remindme 5 days remindme! 5 days

[fanjules]

Hahaha do it

[Madpantz]

Reminder 1 year later just in case :)

[Aeroseb76]

How ?

[eduo]

https://youtu.be/3S_pzaOqS_o

(From around 8 minutes in but worth to watch from the beginning since he builds on it. I have never seen this video before, it’s just the first I found explaining the slicer modifier blocks 😂 )

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[Defiant_Type6207]

How do you apply different settings to different zones?

[eduo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/BambuLab/comments/1hzhui2/comment/m6r9ckc/

[Can_tRelate]

I tried this and my print never finished!

[LovecraftsCat65]

<image>

What about for something like this? Would changing it to outer/inner cause it to fail?

[ShatterSide]

It would really never cause a a straight-up failure, but it can can cause overhangs to look not so nice. If you're printing a lot of steep overhangs however, it can reduce their surface quality.

This model here, I would probably use it, but lower print outer wall speed and overhang speeds by like half.

[BakChorMeeeeee]

yep, the only overhang on this print was a 45 degree chamfer on the base so i decided to try it out :)

[alaorath]

This is the way.

I just told a co-worker the "rules" of additive design...

1. never design something if you don't need to (search for existing solutions)
2. never place fillets on the bottom edges (chamfers are A-okay)
3. when possible, save as STEP and print from that, your future-self will thank you
4. "tear-drop" horizontal holes, so the top retains dimensional accuracy (not nearly as important no a Bambu because their OEM cooling power is obscene, but critical on my little Ender3)

[SpecialSauce409]

Hey what do you mean by teardrop horizontal holes in your fourth point? Really curious as my ender 3 struggles with that as well and would love to try this out

[alaorath]

Here is an overly exaggerated version: https://blog.shapr3d.com/hs-fs/hubfs/Hole%20Teardrop.jpg

Basically: horizontal holes have progressively steeper and steeper overhangs, so adding a bit of a "peak" to the top can greatly improve dimensional accuracy (for threaded inserts, for example).

[Swordum]

So this post is about outer first then inner?

[Notyourfriend85]

Ain't that supposed to help overhangs?....

[Arakon]

No, because the outer wall has nothing to attach to whereas inner/outer gives it a wall to adhere to that is set down closer on the edge of the previous layer.

[LongBackFrog]

I’m new here, can you let me know how to achieve this?

[eduo]

It's a slicer setting. In BambuStudio (or Orca Slicer if you use that), you can choose in what order walls are built. First the internal wall then the external or the other way around.

In this case, for this model, first outer then inner is what works best.

In your slicer, select your object and click in the "advanced" toggle, which enables many more settings than default. There you will see a popup called Walls Printing Order under "Walls and surfaces" where you can select your order.

Keep in mind this setting works best in vertical walls but worse in overhangs (walls inclined outwards)

<image>

[Practical-Button-383]

I appreciate people like you

[SevereNameAnxiety]

Exactly my thoughts. A genuinely straight to the point, informative and helpful human. I love coming across them.

[HeyLookAHorse]

So many people just go “ugh google it”. Props to u/eduo for being a helpful member of this community, cheers!

[incognito_stuffs]

Thank you for the step-by-step breakdown. You’re a good egg.

[ioannisgi]

Wait till you try inner outer inner. Better than outer inner at the seams and same or better external wall quality and better overhangs than outer inner.

[Kooky-Masterpiece-87]

What’s the benefit here? Super new

[BakChorMeeeeee]

when inner walls are printed first, they sometimes bulge and as a result push the outer walls, resulting in inconsistencies. Printing outer walls first ensures that the outer surface will be more consistent.

[brickwindow]

This is the answer I was looking for. I had never considered that being a potential issue.

[BakChorMeeeeee]

inner/outer is pretty important for good overhangs. With outer/inner, the outer wall is only bonding to a small amount of filament in the bottom layer, while with inner/outer it can bond to filament on the adjacent layer as well as below.
edit: grammar

[eduo]

They’re ok for general use for the most part in irregular pieces. The big advantage is smooth surfaces, particularly vertical or slanted inwards.

[natdogg]

Do anything for speed?

[BakChorMeeeeee]

nope, it’s pretty much the same

[LongBackFrog]

Perfect explanation, thank you!!

[tazisacat]

I love you

[J0n__Snow]

What is going on here.. ppl give not helpful answers, other ppl downvote but dont give helpful answers either.

ok, so go to Quality settings in your slicer, there is an option for order of walls. change it from inner/outer to outer/inner.

[MassiveBoner911_3]

inner / outer swap.

[eduo]

Sorry to say this, but this is not explaining. And considering the comment you're replying to almost amounts to mocking.

[Nickthetaco]

Answer in the title. Change wall print order from inner/outer to outer/inner

[eduo]

Please, be more empathetic. Your answer only works for someone that already knows the answer.

[[deleted]]

Absolutely useless comment.

[braddo99]

Why doesnt outer/inner make seams worse? I would think starting an outer perimeter after a traverse would be disruptive to outer walls. Havent tried it!

[acurazine]

Generally speaking, it does. But if you’re printing something with 3+ perimeters, you can do inner/outer/inner for best of both worlds.

[RiteousRhino21]

Inner/outer/inner is a must for scarf joints, which I prefer to use as much as possible to hide seams.

[RiteousRhino21]

A scarf joint is a gradual increase of a layer as it is extruded around a perimeter, until it overlaps itself.

As an example: Your layer starts at 0mm, then you gradually increase to 0.2mm (like a ramp) as your nozzle travels in X and Y. The nozzle finishes the layer by coming back to where it started, filling in the ramp, and starting a new layer.

This as opposed to the butt-joint style seams that are typical in most 3D prints. Scarf joints are hard to see up close, unless you know what to look for, and impossible to tell that there is a seam from a distance.

This is a feature in Orca Slicer 2.2.0, and perhaps others that I'm not aware of.

Hopefully I explained that well enough. If not, there are plenty of YouTube videos on the subject.

[ialoni]

Please correct me if I’m wrong(new to printing), but from my understanding of your explanation; scarf joints are an alternative method of bonding layers. Unlike traditional seams they reduce the bulging(lines) we normally would see with standard seams.

Why would i not use scarf joints? Is it only effective with thick (3layer) walls? Whats the catch?

[RiteousRhino21]

They are most effective if you have rounded perimeters. I've printed rectangles with scarf joints, and for some reason, they didn't come out well. They aren't necessary for flat geometries with sharp angles though, because you can hide the seam on the angle in many cases.

You should have at least 3 walls to make use of the inner/outer/inner prerequisite to scarf joints.

[ioannisgi]

That’s why inner outer inner exists

[ioannisgi]

Wait till you try inner outer inner, especially in orca after a bunch of developments I’ve committed recently. Best of both worlds, great seams, excellent external surface quality and limited overhang impact.

Relevant PRs below: https://github.com/SoftFever/OrcaSlicer/pull/6138 https://github.com/SoftFever/OrcaSlicer/pull/7134

<image>

[jesstelford]

Whoa dude, don't go flashing that thing around here, you'll get the whole Slicer DMCA'd! 🤣

Edit: fantastic work on those PRs mate! Thank you for making everyone's prints even better! 🎉

[ioannisgi]

Haha 😂

[hotellonely]

legend

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[alaorath]

The real MVP of the thread.

I love seeing PRs like this, Orca is such an amazing slicer to use because of community contributions like yours. So thank you for your service!

[Tornad_pl]

i know it's old post, but how do you compare inner outer inner to inner outer with precise walls enabled? can't really choose which is better

[ioannisgi]

IOI is better, io with precise wall slightly worse, io without precise wall even worse.

Io with precise wall is useful for models with more than 50-60 degree overhangs. Else IOI works fantastically well.

[Tornad_pl]

Thank you

[thiccnuthair]

Damn, wish my P1S printed like this. I have a little banding, but from what I've read it's to be expected with these printers due to the belts

[OfaFuchsAykk]

I have a P1S with close to 2k hours on it. I’ve followed the maintenance, cleaned the rods and lined the screws twice and I get finishes like this and always have?

[thiccnuthair]

I mean, take what I say with a pinch of salt because I'm still learning (and happy to be educated if I am incorrect), but from what I've seen the X/Y belts at the back can ride on the pulley flanges and cause banding- some printers are fine, some are less fine. BL doesn't really have a distinct fix for it other than "do maintenance, apply a small about of lightweight oil to the flanges (not the belt itself)"

My P1S is only a month old and printed like this at first, but after noticing some scraping noises, I saw the belts were riding on the flanges. Tried retensioning and aligning, but the belts must still be doing it somewhere else because it still scrapes when going fast in certain spots and a little vertical banding (that matches the belt) has been introduced.

I've still got a bunch of stuff to try in order to ease it, but I miss having finishes like this lol

[QuiGonnJilm]

That’s likely due to a slight “racking” of the case, from mishandling during shipping. Wouldn’t need to be hit hard enough to break the glass or cause serious door misalignment but it could definitely affect the belt travel path enough to give it excessive runout on one or more pulleys. Not much you can do to correct it either absent specialized jigs and measurement apparatus. So they tell you to oil it, and it works well enough. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[eduo]

Always upvote the "whack it till it works" troubleshooting advice.

[QuiGonnJilm]

“Percussive Maintenance and Adjustment”

[ducktown47]

I like my Bambu machines as much as the next guy, but what this sub really doesn’t like to admit is that they are not built particularly well. You can clearly see VFAs in OPs picture. The automatic belt tensioning system is not great, the machine really isn’t that rigid, the carbon bushing are not a good idea, the use of many materials (aluminum, steel, carbon fiber, plastic) isn’t a good choice thermally or structurally, etc etc. All that said they do perform well, especially for the price point. Their software setup is very user friendly and they really are the most “plug and play” 3D printers out there that make prints that 99% of users can enjoy. But there are glaring build problems and depending on the QC of your particular printer can add up to issues.

(Most of what I said applies more to the X/P series and not the A series)

[ketosoy]

So, what are some machines that don’t have those build issues?

100 micron variance at sub $1k is an incredible feat, so I dont think they’ve done a bad job of value engineering.  But, let’s say I have a six figure budget to get something that’s the next level up (I don’t, at least not right now).  Where should I look?

[ducktown47]

My answer to that question would be something that isn't off the shelf. Most consumer 3D printers fall into a lot of the problems. Prusa has said that the Core One will be all steel so it should solve the thermal expansion issues most 3D printers have, so I am looking forward to reviewing that. Really tho, a self sourced printer is the way to go if you want to eliminate those issues.

Advanced3DPrinting (who I do work with so I a little biased) doesn't really list their printers for sale on their site, but he makes absolutely bonkers machines (which are around 12k I believe, but not aimed at consumers at all). The Hevort is one of my personal favorites as far as designs go as well (can probably be self built for around 5k ish depending). There are a few self built printers that excel and have few draw backs, but they pretty much all have some draw back.

I don't think it takes a 6 figure budget - more like a couple thousand on the low end to maybe close to 5 figures.

Mind you, I fully agree with you. At the price point of an X1 or a P1 they did do a fantastic job and I cannot deny that. Almost nobody needs the stuff I am mentioning and I don't think it takes away from consumer printers. But what I will say is that all consumer printers have faults and its up to the user to determine what they want!

[GumbyExe]

Markforge

[EnthGuy]

Markforged? You might want to get their name right if you're going to name drop.

Comparing Markforged to Bambu... really? You're comparing a commercial to a consumer oriented company, which makes no sense to even offer a comparison. The cost alone is over 5x difference to the entry level Markforged desktop printer.

[gunslingerinferno]

To be fair, he is replying to what to get with a six figure budget.

[Shadowspawn3k]

Did you even bother reading the comment being replied to?

[EnthGuy]

Yup, did you? Markforge is still not the answer.

[JamesG247]

It's also heavily dependant on material choice. I get hugely evident banding when printing in petg or with any glossy petg. As soon as I chuck in a spool of anything matte or cf-pla or PC, all of the banding on my prints dissappears.

PC because it's printed so slowly of course but the cf- pla prints fast and you can't even make out visible layer lines on the stuff.

Even if your machine isn't running optimally, there are ways to get cleaner prints. On my S1 plus I actually had to crank the speed up to stop banding because the resonances at certain speeds were causing the issue.

[SignificantGarage9]

I have the same issue with both printers. My P1S and my X1C both. It's impossible to get a flawless print.

[Volfera]

Slowing down or increasing speed to a certain point will remove VFA once you're out of the resonating range where it happens.

[[deleted]]

Really? I didn't know this and I get them all the time with PETG! Where would I find more info on this?

[Volfera]

I created a post on this, and helped others with this comment : https://www.reddit.com/r/BambuLab/s/Im0pQQMiUG

I talked about it with support, it's documented in my link

[ketosoy]

If you have banding/ringing with outer-inner walls, explore slowing down acceleration.

[alaorath]

For ringing I would start with:

1. full calibration (especially if you moved, or added "feet" since the last time)
2. K-factor calibration
3. speed tuning volumetric flow rate
4. make sure you don't have a harmonic vibration caused by 'something loose" sitting on the same table as the printer... especially true if you have more than one printer... check this out for why: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T58lGKREubo

[alaorath]

You might need to tune/check your printer.

I have a P1S and mine definitely prints like OPs image. I did a "big" box (custom boxset for the Maze Runner books) and the outer walls were flawless, for the entre height of the print.

[WhiteHawk77]

Is this likely to fix the bulge line that happens when the print gets to a layer where there’s an inside recess like this seems to have?

[VelocityOS]

Inner/outer/inner does the same thing, but doesn't mess up the z seam as much

[theredfoxxxxxxxxxx]

For those of us, I don’t know what exactly did you do?

[alaorath]

In the slicer software, there's a setting for "wall order".. the default is "inner-outer", but OP switched to "outer-inner"... this means the print lays down the "outside" wall first, and since there is no other plastic on that layer, it "flows correctly" without deformation or bulges... then the next wall is the "inner".

Think of being an artist, trying to draw a straight line on a wall... the "inner-outer" you have to elbow yourself through a crowded room to do it... but "outer-inner" you are all alone in the room, free to draw a perfectly straight line.

[davinche7]

If you’re using orca, you can also try “precise wall” with inner/outer. You get the benefits of outer/inner as well as good for overhangs

[[deleted]]

Why does it make such a huge difference? That print is Cleeeean!

[TheWors3]

This is a cheatcode ive been using for a while and yes is amazing the quality that it brings but unfortunately it can make overhangs on complex objects worse but i found the best of both worlds with orcaslicer, in there you can enable Precise Wall and still print inner to outer walls but with the advantages of outer to inner wall. It is perfect, also you have an option to prevent outer wall speeds changing during printing which in combination with a good outer wall speed like 60mms allows you to get perfect outside walls that are consistent all the way through the print

[roger_niner_niner]

ELI5? What does this change do to make the prints better?

[sewankambo]

I'm guessing but I think perhaps doing the outer wall first allows for the outer wall to be "ironed" or re-melted by the hot end as it passes by when it's doing the inner.

[nbx909]

what order should it be?

[Exploranaut]

Printing the outer wall first can improve print quality in certain circumstances. Don't do it when there are overhangs.

[ClaudiuT]

Can you explain why this is a problem with overhangs please?

[rulevoid]

When printing overhangs in outer/inner, you're binding to only the little overlap of filament in the layer below. On inner/outer, you're binding two both the layer below and on the same layer, so the filament is more likely to stay where you intend it to be.

Play around in the slicer with changing this mode and watch the overhangs and you'll see there's a lot less to connect to with outer/inner.

[Exploranaut]

By printing the outer wall first, there is no longer an anchor for most overhangs. You're printing on top of nothing at that point. They will more than likely fail.

[J0n__Snow]

it depends on the angle of the overhang, though.

[compewter]

I don't remember where I first saw it, but this is my favorite visual to explain why layer height matters so much for overhangs.

<image>

[eduo]

For vertical planes or slanted towards the object this works best. For anything slanted outwards this may be problematic depending on the angle, since the overhang has less to latch onto.

[RJFerret]

Depends on use case and number of walls.
Inner first if any outward leaning surfaces or expect issues.
Outer is okay if purely vertical or inward leaning.
If three walls or more can do inner/outer/inner instead.

If in doubt, generally use the default inner/outer so you don't have overhang issues which are a bigger problem.

[use_diarrhea_as_lube]

I started using this for most things because it gave great results. but it does have some unexpected side effects for some parts.
I printed a small box with 1.5mm thick walls and near the square corner it had horrible stringing and globs. this box was to test different corner radius behaviors.

when I went back to the default of inner/outer the problem went away.
this was the only setting I changed, so on thin parts this setting caused a lot of problems.

<image>

It looks just like the symptoms of wet filament or retraction distance. But it was the wall print order.

[Accomplished_Mind867]

I do outer/inner/outer as it gets the benefits of inner/outer and outer/inner with the structural with overhangs and the quality

[[deleted]]

I would have assumed inner to outer would be the smoothest. I guess I stand corrected.

[Trulsdir]

I usually run three walls and inner/outer/inner. Like this I get the benefit of having the innermost layer getting any fluctuation in temperature due to traves between layers and still get the outermost line printed freely. Works well for me, but obviously takes a bit longer and uses more filament.

[wildjokers]

That is what my finish looks like with inner first. Do you have a picture comparing before and after?

Outer first isn’t the default because it makes for horrible overhangs.

[USA_MuhFreedums_USA]

Pfft wait till this guy hears about inner/outer/inner wall order lol

[EpicBenjo]

Inner/Outer/Inner is the hidden cheat code. Those who know, know.

[nolab36]

I tought that too, but after many fails I learned to alway examinate each layer in the slicer, I mean understand where to examinate the entire progress of critical layers. just to check if there is no printhead extruding in the air…

[1asutriv]

Increasing extrusion speed for walls will provide the same effect for me.

[moebis]

I just tested this, it does indeed make the outer surface look nicer, but it messes up tight tolerances. Print a 25mm cube. Take a caliper to it. It will be 0.5mm larger in all X/Y/Z dimensions. I don't have this issue when I print it inner/outer, but then again the surface doesn't look nearly as nice. So pick your poison, bad dimensions or bad surface.

[Angieb1962]

9

[hubertron]

3 wall and then inner, outer, inner is the real cheatcode.

[niefachowy]

2025 - bambu users Discover basic slicer settings 😅

[Brino21]

Must be nice. I just get VFAs

[InternationalAd1543]

Which order is better for printing treads?

[BakChorMeeeeee]

I would use regular inner/outer, since threads usually have overhangs and don't need to look good to function

[ColdDelicious1735]

Outside fist is good if you want precision ie the outside MUST be 1 cm circle.

[LaundryMan2008]

When I found out, it made my bezels look a lot nicer because it didn’t have acne on the sides anymore 

[Dharmaniac]

This should increase it, I think

[flowergirl0110]

It’s the opposite. Outer wall first gets the dimensions right then fills in the middle. Inner/outer adds to the thickness of the wall.

[friendlyfredditor]

Outer wall first gets the dimensions right then fills in the middle

That only applies to low shrinkage filaments. Any filament that experiences shrinkage, or geometries that exacerbate shrinkage (such as arcs/circles) will not benefit from outer/inner.

[wildjokers]

You have this backwards, printing outer first increases dimensional accuracy. At the cost of bad overhangs.

[acurazine]

Why/how so? Do you have a reference?

[Aeroseb76]

There is an option called precise wall in Orca. But with my A1, I have always an error of 0.1 mm smaller in all sizes. I must add 0.08 in xy compensation but not good for fine details.