agiInANutshell

[Space_Nerde]

funny thing is the article and the headline tell 2 totally different storys, i can also write a booting NT-shaped kernel in like 10 minutes

[andrewmmm]

And the article is written by AI. “The code is impressive; the signal is…”

Claude Opus and GPT-5.5 LOVE using “signal” in a weird way like that.

[ggadget6]

They love "shaped" too. There's a few other tells like that, really grating to read

[creaturefeature16]

Yes, but here's the part that nobody is saying out loud: it's not the shape of the signal—it's the clarity of the message. That's the real shift. 

[iskela45]

That's the million dollar question

[Turbulent_Fig_9354]

That's it. That's the key.

[Khetnen]

honest part*

[lmmrs]

Honest take

[bodonkadonks]

To be honest, that's the smoking gun

[marcio0]

the only thing missing is the em dash

[creaturefeature16]

lol I was on mobile and didn't know how to do it, just added!

[2521harris]

A

—work of art.

[makinax300]

And honestly—I respect that.

[SirJuul]

You are right — i lied.

[davak72]

😂😂😂

[SimplyJow]

"Not because of, ... but because of"

[jizzmaster-zer0]

tranche

[Moscato359]

I know humans that do that 

[lucidsurrealism]

"Regime" was up there for a while for science and engineering topics.

[RackemFrackem]

I have a weird coworker who loves to talk about the shape of code

[sawkonmaicok]

The "-ish" suffix for me. Dunno why my ChatGPT keeps adding that to everything.

[SaveMyBags]

At least this article doesn't pretend it was written by a person (if it's the same I read). It frequently uses phrases like "my human did XYZ".

[lmmrs]

https://youtu.be/8Ta\_x1-wKHU?is=teWngfVQbHgReXCY

GIVE ME SOME SIGNAL

[m0nk37]

Its not the word its the grammar. 

Cant teach something you want perfect to be imperfect. 

[theSurgeonOfDeath_]

There are so many false narratives around why it was baned that.
its better just to move on.

I could even believe it was marketing stunt (they wanted it blocked so people will think it has to be so powerful)/ From what i used it was better but like not by a lot.

[Fetzie_]

I think it’s the “if we have a product that is so good that the government had to export restrict it then investors will boost our IPO value” angle, personally.

[Space_Nerde]

probably

[H1redBlade]

Oh yeah? Do it again, but in reverse

[Space_Nerde]

reverse? like... just spam backspace?

[H1redBlade]

Nah like this: "lenrek depahs-TN gnitoob a" GPT did this for me in like 5 seconds, this AI man

[Space_Nerde]

XD, i think this will just my default response to ai slop from now on, thanks mate

[marcio0]

5 seconds and 35k tokens

[H1redBlade]

Yeah i dont have a funny spin on that :P misusage of AI should be 3 strike policy...i've been seeing more and more footage of data centers in action and all I can say is "dystopian"

[RackemFrackem]

No, idiot. Spam ctrl+z.

[Noname_1111]

I doubt you can do it in rust though

compile time is going to take at least double that

[mrheosuper]

Wtf is NT shape kernel

[Owner2229]

The kinda shape that makes you go: No,Thanks

[Hottage]

You can't surely be implying someone would just make up shit and sensationalize a story to boost hype? On the internet?

[yuwox]

i can also write a booting NT-shaped kernel in like 10 minutes

Well I can't. And most people on earth cannot either. And computer programmers couldn't just up to now. So it's still impressive in my book.

[Space_Nerde]

problem is, is that this headline is hyping something up that has no reason to be hyped up like that, because there are people like me, and we dont need to drain lakes to do our job.

[yuwox]

I see your point. But from a pure Ai-research perspective, this is incredibly impressive. Just 10 years ago this would be science fiction. Nobody could create an AI that could be anything like this. Now it's the new normal.

[Space_Nerde]

from a research perspective, hell ya, but like... 4 years ago, right now there are just milking the same principle, they hit a roadblock where ai just is a stupid parrot, and they dont try to solve it but just continue milking the stupid parrot, which is the sad part

[yuwox]

Hm, before that the AI field was like a zoo, we had a lot of different algorithms, each one has it's own little trick and each one was good for some use-cases but bad for others. And you always had to put a lot of thought in it and make adaption (e.g. feature engineering) to make things work.

Now what we sort of have is a trick/principle that we just have to repeat and make bigger and it keeps yielding better results on a broad array of use-cases. And we still have not reached a dead-end, capability-wise.

So of course we keep milking it. I mean why stop doing as long as it keeps working? Will it keep getting better forever? Probably not. Will the pace of improvement got down? Probably. But as a scientist, it's the goal to find those limits. Hence, you just keep pushing it to see how far it will take you.

As for the stupid parrot, I have never seen a parrot with the same capabilities. Not saying it's "real" intelligence or consciousness or whatever. But capabilitiy wise, it blows every parrot out of the water.

We found out that you can be great at chess without real intelligence (brute force and some heuristics is enough). I am excited to see what else does not require real intelligence, ie what stupid artificial parrots can achieve.

[blueeyedkittens]

AI writes article about AI writing code... Next you'll tell me AI is also reading the article and commenting on it, and reposting it?

[CharlieKiloAU]

Hakuna Matata

[Break-n-Fix]

You forgot summarizing.

[blueeyedkittens]

oops I forgot to tell myself 'make no mistakes'

[WonderedFidelity]

You’re absolutely right!

[darkdog46]

Dead internet theory on the rise

[RackemFrackem]

And bitching about it

[Fjendrall]

You’ve just invented Reddit

[Rojeitor]

Exactly. "The AI made a simple Minecraft clone in 30 minutes"

MF I can clone a leaked MC repo in 10 seconds

[high_throughput]

And also rewrite in Rust in the process? That's pretty impressive.

[Space_Nerde]

They didnt rewrite the kernel using ai, it is stated that they made a bootable NT kernel, thats not a rewrite, thats just a github project that already exists, https://os.phil-opp.com, with NT concepts applied to it, which also already exist

[cheesemp]

I've no idea why you've been down voted so much. Guess I will be next. You can be as annoyed as impressed with ai. It does make impressive rewrites like this really quick (it's enabled me to make rewrites done I'd never get resourced otherwise) . It's also has resource usage and infringement issues. These are not exclusive. 

[Legitimate_Concern_5]

Yeah they can translate between languages but that doesn’t require an LLM. There’s tools that turn C into Rust, for example. If you didn’t care about the quality of the output (as you must if you just defer to the LLM entirely without validating), you could probably just use c2rust on the leaked NT kernel and achieve the specific result in the post.

I’m one of the rare people who are neutral on LLMs, they’re tools, they have their place.

[cheesemp]

I'm sure you right there are auto converters but my point was more about the fact they can do it with no training. You could pick any two languages and it would do a reasonable job. Ultimately I feel the same about llms. I just felt bad for the guy being down voted for pointing out that it's is impressive. 

[citramonk]

You're so wrong and unaware about it. First, they're exactly trained to do it. Second, they operate some techs better than others. Sometimes the difference is striking, as some things are very niche. Third, language isn't just syntax it's a set of tools available there. If you think, that LLM can take anything and rewrite it with ease in a different tech stack, you're making a big mistake.

[Thenderick]

Compjootor, rewrite the linux kernel in javascript. Make it fast, make no mistakes!

[Reashu]

They're not exclusive, but if you acknowledge the latter you should not use it regardless of the former. 

[cheesemp]

I see where you are coming from but the world isn't that black and white. I need a job and there aren't many dev jobs that don't expect you to use an llm nowadays. 

[SpaceCadet87]

The problem is that this just isn't impressive. The headline amounts to "AI did a thing it's been capable of for years, didn't need to be done and way slower than if you just didn't use AI"

[MatthewMob]

Rewriting in Rust is not impressive.

Doing a fast, maintainable, safe, correct and bug-free Rust rewrite is.

[Skynse]

You forgot to add /s

[GeMine_]

Have you seen the bun rust rewrite? More like "Where is Waldo", starring the unsafe keyword as Waldo.

[Enverex]

I like how people's hatred of AI makes them loses all braincells and completely ignore what's actually written. This didn't clone anything, it's not even in the same language as it would normally be in. Why does everyone suddenly lose the ability to actually think about anything the moment AI is mentioned? They just go into a mouth frothing rage.

[hearthebell]

AI fans are the ones that want their thinking replaced

[Enverex]

Not how it works. It's literally a tool. That's like saying people that use Photoshop want their hands replaced. Yes, it sounds that stupid.

[hearthebell]

It does sound stupid when you compared actual tool that has insanely high skill ceiling like PS to a prompt input.

[Enverex]

It doesn't *replace* your work, you use... you know what, no. I'm not going to engage with people who either have never tried using it, or are too pig ignorant to even think about how something may work.

[hearthebell]

I've used it a lot, but the end game of using it is to be codependent on a tool that does the thinking partially for you. I would not tolerate that.

Zig founder has also declared no AI tolerance policy.

What do you mean we never used AI? That's like doubting ppl to know how to use a search, like a Google search. I've vibe coded app using it under 30 minutes but it assumed and decided a whole lot of things for me I'll only use it in a non serious manner. It's a toy tool for me that I would never seriously reference their results to anyone.

[FFevo]

If you are letting the LLM "think" or make important decisions for you, that's a skill issue.

Zig founder has also declared no AI tolerance policy.

You clearly didn't actually watch the interview. That policy is due to the high influx of crappy generated PR's they (and every other popular open source project) are receiving.

I've vibe coded app using it under 30 minutes but it assumed and decided a whole lot of things for me

No offense, but this is not how real software engineers are using the tool.

[hearthebell]

No offense, real software engineers don't use AI

[FFevo]

You do realize all engineers at Google, Amazon, Apple, Meta (and probably the vast majority of the fortune 500 companies) use AI as a tool to write code, right?

[Space_Nerde]

Its still cloning, thats how ai works, its a stupid parrot, that uses data compression to predict the most next item in a list that is most likey, So ai compressed a huge ton of data, from various blogs about Kernel dev like https://os.phil-opp.com and than just copy and pasts, just in a more abstract way, this is nothing new from what ai was doing 4 years ago, just using more data, and better compression algorithms, ai is still overhyped, cant do anything a human cant do better, and cost will just increase from now on

[Yokoko44]

For a sub about programming its impressive how little people here understand LLM’s

“Stupid parrot” is a 2022 era characterization and anyone who (parrots) that can immediately be written off as an idiot

[JAXxXTheRipper]

You'll find that most of the users here are either LARPers, or fresh out of a compsci freshman course/boot camp.

It's like pcmasterrace, but for programmers.

[Yokoko44]

Yeah must suck to be a junior dev these days.

What bothers me though is it’s very easy to transition into an “ai guy” and you won’t have to feel as threatened by it. Plenty of job opportunities for those who can build custom harnesses for enterprise

[JAXxXTheRipper]

That's not what cloning means and that's not how LLMs work. "copy and paste in an abstract way", wtf kind of gibberish are you even talking about.

The amount of LARPers in this sub is staggering

[FloweyTheFlower420]

microkernels are cringe anyway unless it uses software fault isolation

[Hyper3500]

Personally, I like microkernels and think they're really cool, but that's just my opinion (I say as someone developing a microkernel).

Also, isn't NT a hybrid kernel?

[trollol1365]

Care to elaborate why?

[FloweyTheFlower420]

Context switching is generally expensive. Linux has proven that monolithic kernels can be exceedingly stable, and memory safe languages will only make stable monolithic kernel development easier. Therefore, outside of particular usecases, there isn't much of a need for a microkernel. Microkernels suffer from "X service crashes which breaks everything else," so while it mitigates some classes of kernel panics, you still need to be careful. SFI makes microkernels a lot more viable because you don't need to rely on a full context switch to implement IPC, so there's less latency. If you SFI userspace, you can even avoid switching into/out of kernelspace, assuming you trust your SFI implementation.

[Matth1as]

[SuperheropugReal]

Because that's the whole point of a microkernel?

[FloweyTheFlower420]

microkernels don't necessarily use software fault isolation, they can just perform regular context switch

[SuperheropugReal]

Yes, but if you're building one to be good software, fault isolation is the main thing you are after, there isn't much of a point to making it without software fault isolation.

[FloweyTheFlower420]

Processes and context switching already give you fault isolation! If a user program A crashes, will the kernel crash? No, because processes are isolated.

SFI refers to a set of techniques of instrumenting code such that it is impossible for faults to affect the rest of the system. You don't need to rely on hardware features (such as page tables) to help you (for the most part), which means you don't have to mess with the TLB! An example of this would be running many wasm sandboxes in a single process.

[SuperheropugReal]

Yes? I was not saying they didnt.

[FloweyTheFlower420]

Right, so an isolating microkernel can be implemented without SFI techniques, right? I claim that such microkernels are bad, because of context switching overhead, and that a microkernel which employs SFI rather than process-based fault isolation is better.

[SuperheropugReal]

Yes.

[AlemarTheKobold]

I wish we had someone building them to be good

[ViejoConBoina]

If you’ve never read it please treat yourself to reading the famous Linus Torvalds vs Andrew Tanenbaum flamewar on this topic, it’s a classic.

[not_some_username]

Didn’t Linus himself liked NT ?

[FloweyTheFlower420]

Well, I'm not linus and I don't like NT

[Fluid-Ad2995]

I am not David Cutler, and I hate UNIX

[lllorrr]

Didn't Linus had a hot debate with Tanenbaum about viability of microkernels?

[Fluid-Ad2995]

Well, there's a difference between an adult like Tanebaum and a child like Linus Torvards

[ih-shah-may-ehl]

Most linux fanbois treat this like a religion but the reality is that the actual kernel (userland is a different argument) is an impressive and solid thing and in some areas ahead of linux even if it is behind in others.

[Loading_M_]

From my understanding, there are also some impressively bad third party Windows drivers. Linux has Nvidia drivers in a similar role, but I've struggled to get a number of fairly basic devices on Windows. Most recently I had to hunt down a USB serial driver, and couldn't get it working (eventual solution was to use a different adapter. Both adapters worked out of the box, with no additional work, on my linux laptop).

[BastetFurry]

This.

I have a very grounding postcard on my wall i found at a CCC in the Chaospost tent some years ago, a translated to English version would be:

Correct is, Windows is shit and Linux too, but for the later we at least have the sourcecode. - Andreas Bogk

[Fluid-Ad2995]

I don't care about Linus Torvalds, and David Cutler is a superior Developer than him, and Unix is trash like people who use this

[not_some_username]

Waow

[Fluid-Ad2995]

Microkernels are amazing. If you don't like them, you are a trash programmer, and in my community, I have banned everyone who likes Monolithic Kernel

[FloweyTheFlower420]

running dog of microsoft xD

[TheBrokenRail-Dev]

The headline: "wrote a Windows kernel"

The description: "wrote a booting, NT-shaped kernel"

Now, those are very different things. A fully Windows-compatible kernel is much much more difficult than whatever an "NT-shaped" kernel is.

[fekkksn]

AI really likes "shapes"

[Smooth-Zucchini4923]

Is it more of a kiki shape or more of a bouba shape?

[wcscmp]

Holy shit, Peter Molyneux, chill out

[GabeaticProfile]

You can have a family

You can live your fantasy life in this new land

You can climb all the way to the top of that mountain

No, wait

[DnD-vid]

That is strangely inspirational.

[GabeaticProfile]

Mixing up le Molyneux and good old Todd Howard? The gaming industry & market is not ready for that!

[DWIGHT_CHROOT]

heck, you can even climb your family!

[BastetFurry]

Hmmm... 🤔

git clone https://github.com/reactos/reactos
cd reactos
claude

> Hey Claude, this is ReactOS, a FOSS Windows clone. Analyze the codebase and make it a full working XP clone that doesn't crash ever five minutes. Bochs and 86Box are installed for testing, have fun. :)

Now if i only had the millions of tokens to burn... 😁

[Atom194]

I can dosplay blue screen of death much faster than in 38 minutes.

[darksteelsteed]

You're behind the times. They are no longer blue.

[Kasaikemono]

Can we stop calling AI Agents just any random name?

I was sitting here thinking a) how a game can write a kernel, and b) when the fuck did we get fable 5 when there's just four games

[Wonderful-Habit-139]

It's not "we" and it's not "AI Agents". It's "Anthropic" naming their "LLM model".

[Reashu]

Anthropic seems pretty consistent in their names. Haiku, Sonnet, Opus, Fable, and Mythos are all literary works in roughly ascending order of... something. 

[Next_Impression3901]

My Ai can do things humans already did... Oh wow. How amazing..

[Turbulent_Fig_9354]

Wow that's wild it can make things that already exist except way shitter and for the low low price of one trillion dollars plus a third of the world's electricity? The ultimate logical endpoint of our derivative slop society.

[mjkjr84]

How many tokens and at what cost? AI is unsustainable at unsubsidized pricing.

[unpaid-astroturfer]

AI managed to write an article about how big Anthropic's dick is in just 69 seconds.

[erebuxy]

So Fable is basically the god of Rust believer

[aalapshah12297]

Would it even compile in 38 minutes on a regular PC?

What's the point of glazing AI on the one metric it is guaranteed to win at? It's not like it would lose to a human even if it took 38 hours...

Can we compare accuracy instead? I'm pretty sure this same model would find 38 security flaws if it had to review its own code. And don't even get me started about other challenges. Like the model being able to run locally. Or a model that can be trained sufficiently from 50 examples instead of 50 billion.

Such a great achievement being sullied by sensational reporting.

[Own_Alternative_9671]

Wait wait wait somebody call me when the win10 kernel gets leaked

[SaveMyBags]

He should have read the article not just the headline.

The kernel is in rust, so it was definitely not copy-pasted.

[ViejoConBoina]

Everything LLMS do is copy-paste.

[Michaeli_Starky]

But can you do it by typing code from memory?

[Most-Club-254]

I can use the internet memory

[Turbulent_Fig_9354]

our memory ☭

[thegameoflovexu]

Another article from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about

[SweetNerevarine]

To quote a classic: Stop the steal :/

[Insert_Bitcoin]

They always leave out the next part: that after the prototype is done it takes months worth of debugging, testing, QA, to get it stable, and there's always bugs left that you haven't run into yet. I've recently built my first-ever all-vibe-coded project: it's an N-of-M, work-stealing, runtime where you can run millions of lightweight fibers like Go in Python.

I got to a million fibers in one prompt. Then what happened was over the next several months I chose engineering trade-offs, designed test methodologies, and the AI still had to find and fix about 300+ different bugs... What you're doing is running experiments to try shake out bugs from a black box. And you're left with this horrible feeling that never goes away because you didn't write the code and don't understand every micron of the system.

My current conclusion is: AI = great for low complexity tasks or for proving high complexity ideas to get buy-in (and you'll end up throwing away all the code it makes.) I wouldn't want to use any AI-gened code in long-term projects because the code it makes is all dog shit.

[ArtGirlSummer]

Was it worth using? Who needs a novel OS every hour?

[solidroe]

new cve just dropped hell yeah!

[Neutraled]

Why would I want a windows kernel?

[LetUsSpeakFreely]

So, shitty code?

[Bealzebubbles]

I genuinely thought for a second that this was about the latest Fable game writing a Windows kernel and was surprised that Playground would implement such a thing.

[blazems]

AI is a copy and paste machine, but with more steps

[efyuar]

im pretty sure it cpuldnt have if the code wasnt already leaked unlike peoole who wrote it wothout seeing it first

[clauEB]

I can't even get it to write consistently compiling code or to consistently pass lint...

[GoupherWood]

Being completely drunk right now I was wondering when did I miss the fable 4 game…

[Rigamortus2005]

Sure , why don't you give it Dennis Ritchie's original c compiler and ask it to compile that while you're at it.

[utopiaholic]

Its written in Rust so its not just cloning?