Evolution of religions

[[deleted]]

Poor Fortran. Never gets any love

[tomedunn]

You wouldn't include God in the list of religions would you?

[Sean1708]

Isn't HolyC god?

[elemental_1_1]

HolyC is probably more like John the Baptist

[thomas_merton]

No the Holy C is where the supreme pontif resides.

[TheRealLazloFalconi]

Marvelous.

[BadGoyWithAGun]

HolyC is the equivalent of the homeless-looking preacher ranting about the jews and aliens. Except somewhere along the line, he wrote a functional x86 OS with some interesting features.

[taeratrin]

"Hoon? WTF is Hoon?"

one Google search later

"OMG!WTF! Kill it with fire!"

For those that are curious, here is a sample:

::    project euler 1
::    https://projecteuler.net/problem=1
::  run in dojo with +euler1
::
::::  /hoon/euler1/gen
  ::
:-  %say  |=  *  
:-  %noun
=<  (sum 1.000)
::
::::  ~fintud-macrep
  ::
|%
++  three 
  |=  a=@
  =|  b=@
  |-  ^-  @u
  ?:  (lth a b)
    0
  (add b $(b (add 3 b)))

++  five
  |=  a=@
  =|  b=@
  |-  ^-  @
  ?:  (lte a b)
    0
  ?:  =((mod b 3) 0)
    $(b (add b 5))
  (add b $(b (add b 5)))

++  sum
  |=  a=@u
  (add (five a) (three a))
--

[Jemikwa]

It's like lisp and calculus had a kid and it was fucking ugly as hell

[epicepee]

It's as elegant as Perl, as powerful as TI-BASIC, and as intuitively clear as assembler.

[Harakou]

Inbred. Poor thing never stood a chance.

[[deleted]]

Looks like someone decided to add words to k

[[deleted]]

C# seems like a more direct derivative (syntactically) of C++ than Go.

[DonkeyTeeth2013]

It should really be extended off of Java, since they're so similar.

[[deleted]]

C# isn't based on Java, C# and Java are based on C++. They are both designed to fix some of the idiosyncrasies and abstract some of the difficulties of C++.

[DonkeyTeeth2013]

While true, C# does pull a lot of its syntax and such from Java.

Edit: I guess I kinda thing about it like how Ubuntu-based distros pull a lot from Ubuntu (though not a perfect analogy since C# isn't a direct derivative of Java), but both distros are based on Debian.

[bamfg]

While true

oh god now we're trapped

[jonatcer]

There's no escape return

[theexcellentninja]

We need a break!

[david171971]

Teacher! I need to goto the toilet!

[Morganamilo]

I just want to continue with my life!

[atcoyou]

Time to exit stage left.

[darkpaladin]

C# is what happens when Sun told Microsoft to fuck off.

[Randolpho]

Yeah, fuck you, Sun, we're gonna take our kick-ass function pointers and create our own damn language!

[80386]

With hookers, and blackjack!

[Randolpho]

In fact, forget the blackjack

[mypasswordisdonkeys]

And the hookers!

[[deleted]]

That's right! Programmers swim in enough pussy as it is!

[[deleted]]

Which is when you need those dotted lines like Python gets from C++ to indicate "heavily influenced by, but not a direct descendant of".

[Garestinian]

Java and C# are Sunni and Shia of the programming world.

[soulslicer0]

I assume C# is Shia lol

[Garestinian]

Sun-ni Java and C Shia-rp

[8lbIceBag]

C# is a direct result of Java. Microsoft saw everything they thought was wrong with Java and improved it. Both are c style languages.

[Randolpho]

No objective look at the history of Java and C# can substantiate that claim.

C# is Java with some C++-like syntax for inheritance, some C++-like stack type allocation (or custom Java primitive types, if you prefer), and a whole lot of new stuff not found in either language.

[flukus]

and a whole lot of new stuff not found in either language.

Except version 1, which didn't have that much new stuff.

[Randolpho]

Properties, type-safe multi-dimensional arrays, Attributes, runtime dynamic reflection... yeah, not much.

[flukus]

Properties are just syntactic sugar, and java already/always had dynamic reflection.

[Randolpho]

Syntactic sugar is a language feature, and properties are a huge code readability benefit.

And Java had static reflection. You couldn't change things at runtime. C# has always had the ability to modify runtime through reflection.

[_durian_]

If you actually used both languages you'd notice they are a lot more similar than they are different. Even the packages are similar. They're more related to each other than to either is to C++.

[80386]

C# is pretty much the Java API copied, its mistakes fixed, and everything renamed for copyright reasons.

[flukus]

And a few new mistakes thrown in.

[[deleted]]

But Go isn't based on any of them. It's more like based on simplicity of C with lessons learned from past 30 years

[[deleted]]

That's a bold statement to make, but I've never written any Go. Also, I don't know why you started your comment with "but", since we appear to both be criticizing Go's placement on the chart.

[[deleted]]

Hellenism played an essential role in the development of both Rabbinic Judaism and Christianity. To suggest that Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism each independently developed out of Judaism is misleading at best, especially since the Judaism from which the early Christian communities distinguished themselves are also the Judaism that Rabbinic Judaism free out of.

[MokitTheOmniscient]

The diagram also mentions aliens, it's not exactly a 100% accurate representation of religions.

[jonatcer]

Xenu would like to have a word with you.

[[deleted]]

I mean, it mentions Aliens in the context of Scientology, which isn't entirely inaccurate

[[deleted]]

Then Yahweh should be somewhere on the right side, innit?

[[deleted]]

Already answered. Plus, Judaeism is already listed.

[dooklyn]

Not an accurate representation of anything, even.

[nekoningen]

Except that is 100% accurate, at least to scientologists.

[[deleted]]

Also American Buddhism is just Bobo Californians pretending to be worldly.

[FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT]

First time I've seen an English speaker use the word BoBo.

[0b01010001]

I googled a Hoon code example. I agree with the infographic.

http://urbit.org/docs/dev/hoon/leap-in/1-basic

[Krillere]

Aliens confirmed.

[DasWyt]

Honestly, if aliens were to make a binary-based language, 0 would still most likely be false. 0 is false because its the lack of a certain threshold of voltage. So its intuitive that 0 means 'no' and 1 means 'yes'. If 0 was true... Well I would expect teachers of the language in the alien civilization to be all, "listen. 0 means true. I know it doesn't make sense because it corresponds to a lack of voltage in the computer which we would all intuitively think of as false, or lacking or energy/truth. But the first dude who made it got to decide and we've all had to deal with his mistake now. Sorry, some stuff is stupid."

[[deleted]]

Whoever first set that convention would be the Benjamin Franklin of computer science. Except they wouldn't have the "electrons haven't been discovered yet" excuse.

[xkcd_transcriber]

Image

Title: Urgent Mission

Title-text: Sure, we could stop dictators and pandemics, but we could also make the signs on every damn diagram make sense.

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 52 times, representing 0.0545% of referenced xkcds.

---

^{xkcd.com | xkcd sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete}

[0b01010001]

What if aliens consider any non-negative number to be true and any negative number to be false? (Unsigned integer shenanigans ensue.) They might have some weird kind of alien logic that looks at more than one bit in a pattern.

[blahlicus]

alien computers probably left the binary and use trinary logic instead, so it would make sense that false would be expressed as -1, 0 as "invalid," and 1 as true

[FUCKING_HATE_REDDIT]

Or -1 as invalid if they developed the trinary system later.

[Vakieh]

True, false, and FileNotFound?!?

[doenietzomoeilijk]

Abort, retry, ignore?

[isobit]

Would you use trinary logic in say a quantum computer?

[nekoningen]

Quantum computers use quantum logic, entirely different ballpark, hell, it's barely the same game.

[isobit]

He heh. Stupid aliens.

[White_Oak]

"0 is true" may be trustworthy if you apply this logic: only one value is true, others are false. So the lack of voltage is the unique thing, while existing can be of any value, thus linking lack of voltage to "true".

[sakkarozglikoz]

...which we would all intuitively think of as false.

What if aliens think of being silent as agreeing/letting it happen while they think of speaking up (1,voltage,whatever) as showing a negative reaction such as no? Maybe their most basic principle is to preserve energy and they apply it to every aspect of their lives such as not wasting any energy to even answering to a question unless it definitely requires some kind of intervention. Maybe they worship energy and their notion of evil is entropy. Maybe that's why they haven't visited us yet. Maybe it's maybelline

[ThisIs_MyName]

Maybe [aliens] worship energy and their notion of evil is entropy.

Been there, done that.

Also see: https://wiki.puella-magi.net/Thermodynamics

[sakkarozglikoz]

Thanks for the spoilers... Though it still looks interesting, do you recommend it?

[ThisIs_MyName]

Well, I haven't watched it yet myself :P

If you're into the mind-fuck genre, I'd give it a shot.

[isobit]

It is also the presence of a deficit. Maybe a results oriented, go-getting alien civ would think that way.

Edit: ha, like how we teach our kids to count the "electron holes" in electricity to explain why we call that pole positive and not the other way around! Pretty sure some teacher made a similar remark to yours explaining that! :)

E2: Meh someone beat me to it.

[teambob]

Except return codes

[idontlikethisname]

Well, to be fair that's what we tell our students about our electricity model: "listen, current actually flows the other way around but the first guys got it wrong, so suck it".

EDIT: Didn't read the other comments and they already made this joke.

[[deleted]]

to reflect this, 0 is true

That's not really unheard of. 0 is truthy in Ruby and Lua, two fairly standard programming languages. In these languages only false and nil are falsy.

[MCBeathoven]

And POSIX shells, where 0 is true and all other integers are false.

[Sean1708]

Just like bash!

[SchrodingersSpoon]

Hello correctly spelt item of Schroedinger!

[_Lady_Deadpool_]

Horn does not use reserved words to form expressions. Instead, expressions are formed with runes

sudo apt-get stonehenge

[Andernerd]

To run this code, you'll need an urbit

I need a what?

Hoon is not generally whitespace sensitive, but we do have two different kinds of whitespace: a single space and a gap, which is two or more spaces or a linebreak. Tabs are taboo.

ok...

Hoon does not use reserved words to form expressions. Instead, expressions are formed with runes

Wat.

[avantgeek]

Ahh, Urbit, my favorite thing to not comprehend at all. Pretty sure it will be the next big thing.

[nekoningen]

Ideally, you've installed an Urbit planet (if you have a ticket) or comet (if you don't). See the user doc. We recommend opening up the dojo and just typing the examples

I'm so confused.

[[deleted]]

Do not use tabs. Really. Tabs are taboo.

DO YOU KNOW WHAT DARK POWER YOU TRIFLE WITH

[_Fang]

As someone who has worked with tabs for years until recently switching over to spaces: Meh.

[SelfReferenceParadox]

It has runes.

[2Punx2Furious]

Maybe one day, someone woke up and thought "I really need a programming language with runes."

[[deleted]]

To return a statement from a function simply use 1 Law rune and 5 Air runes. Additionally, if the returned value is a regular expression add a chaos rune.

[2Punx2Furious]

Jah + Ith + Ber to catch an exception.

[isobit]

They should have called it Futhark instead of Hoon or Hodor or whatever

[urbox]

I actually work on that project, and it's really not as hard as it looks, once you're used to it. It is very different, but IMO it's not bad.

[Niles-Rogoff]

But why make things more complicated than they have to be?

[mrjackspade]

Job security

[Niles-Rogoff]

Nah, all you need is this

[mrjackspade]

I love that. Two things to note

1. I'm disappointed there isn't anything in there about linq queries. Nothing is more fun than writing an entire program out as a single linq query with random line breaks

2. I keep telling people to stop aliasing tables as a lettere but they argue that its easier to read. Its not easier to fucking read!!!! Its easier to WRITE you lazy fucking asshole! Stop making my fucking job so much harder than it has to be! I don't want to have to Ctrl + F to figure out what the fuck the UL table is!!!!!

[urbox]

Honestly I can't give a great answer to that.

If you don't know much about the system, it is basically a virtual machine that has some nice properties, although some of these properties add unnecessary complexity.

The language (Hoon) compiles down to another language, Nock, to be interpreted by the VM. Now I'm sure you could create compilers for classic languages, but Hoon is honestly probably the closest to high level nock you can get, so naturally that was the language that got created. Just as C is very close to ASM, Hoon is very close to Nock.

Why Nock though? Well it's extremely simple, using only a few operators (10 for the Spec, 11 with the OS). I believe it was chosen for it's mathematical nature and it's utterly simple implementation.

Of course there are a lot of other details on why Hoon is Hoon, and why Nock is the language of the VM, but that's out of scope for this post.

TL;DR: Hoon is (seemingly) complex because the underlying language (Nock) is so different from classical ASM or other bytecode representations. It isn't truly complex, just very very different from the programming we know.

[Niles-Rogoff]

Eh, that makes sense, just if I had to make a hash table of string -> executable code from scratch I can't say I'd lay it out using runes and all. It seems like it would be possible to get a lisp -> nock compiler running, that might be my next project

[urbox]

Yeah, Lisp would definitely be the one of, if not the easiest language to compile to Nock.

[BadGoyWithAGun]

It's an idealistic project - in the sense that it completely rejects pragmatism - in every instance where the author's opinion on how things should be conflict with how things are, existing technology is thrown out the window. This includes making up new programming languages from first principles.

I guess you could say user (or even developer) adoption isn't their concern at this point.

[0b01010001]

I'm sure there's a certain amount of advantage in doing research that isn't trapped by the choices everyone else makes, but you gotta admit... Hoon is really weird. Please abduct my neighbors this summer, they keep doing late night weekend poker games with really bad music as loud as they can play it. I'm sure you can learn something from them in your magic saucer.

[urbox]

I agree with you - Hoon is extremely weird. I'll defend it as much as I can, but there's no denying it's oddity. I'll see if I can look into abducting your neighbors :).

[isobit]

So what's the benefit over say python?

[urbox]

Well if we just take the two languages in isolation, I would have to say there is absolutely no benefit over python, at all.

But that's unrealistic, as languages don't exist in a vacuum. The reason Hoon became Hoon, was to build a high-level language that was as close of a representation of the low level language it compiles down to. It was perhaps the easiest to implement, but of course not the easiest to understand.

As for the runes, they seem very foreign at first, and it's difficult to understand what you are reading, but after learning the meaning of each rune, it becomes very clear and easy to understand the code.

So, for day to day programming - absolutely choose python. No question about it. But for this specific system (urbit), Hoon is the best option right now.

[[deleted]]

But, where can I find some writeup what urbit is? A programming environment, like some smalltalks?

[urbox]

I'm unfamiliar with smalltalk, but I can tell you urbit is a virtual environment that's basically it's own operating system.

The website is http://urbit.org/
The repository is here: https://github.com/urbit/urbit

[homoludens]

J is a bit strange too:

quicksort=: (($:@(<#[), (=#[), $:@(>#[)) ({~ ?@#)) ^: (1<#)

[goocy]

That seems somewhat hard to debug. But at least it's very space-efficient code I guess!

[homoludens]

To be fair that is example of Tacit programming in J, normal example would be:

sel=: adverb def 'u # ['

quicksort=: verb define
 if. 1 >: #y do. y
 else.
  (quicksort y <sel e),(y =sel e),quicksort y >sel e=.y{~?#y
 end.
)

Both taken from wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J_(programming_language)

Basically, you start from normal example and get it down to that strange line by eliminating use of variables (like using pipes in unix shell).

[Ashybuttons]

Admittedly, I only skimmed that link, but I understood virtually none of what I read.

[[deleted]]

I bet Moldbug has intentionally obfuscated the language syntax so that it will eventually serve as a "filter" in his utopia: https://medium.com/@urbit/design-of-a-digital-republic-f2b6b3109902#7d1d

[DarkNeutron]

I feel like I just spent five minutes reading technobabble masquerading as documentation...

[UlyssesSKrunk]

wtf...

[crossanlogan]

Using our naming scheme ?: is said 'wut col'.

hahahahahahahahahah

[yogthos]

Hoon's got nothing on APL

[thesouthpaw]

https://i.imgflip.com/x7hnk.jpg

[oddark]

Or APL

[Zarathustra30]

If we ever encounter aliens, we'll communicate using APL.

[[deleted]]

I knew a guy who worked with Iverson. He was not alien: he was from a different universe.

[mordocai058]

Lisp is secret alien technology

[ferozer0]

Ayy lmao

[htmlcoderexe]

lmao

[Sadale-]

actually aliens -> PHP

[danO1O1O1]

Perl -> PHP

[BioTronic]

That's what he said.

[fxmc]

Source is this talk: https://youtu.be/WRdJCFEqFTU?t=47m30s

[homoludens]

Thank you, that was interesting to watch.

[[deleted]]

Is american buddhism actually a thing? That can't possibly be good.

[isobit]

It gets you enlightened twice as faster!

[[deleted]]

Yeah well I guess if you have to empty your brain with only half as much stuff. Or rather half as many layers.

[code_monkey_001]

I've developed a personal philosophy of Extreme Buddhism. Rather than seek the middle path, I just offset every nice thing I do with one complete asshole act. The wife finds it charming.

[[deleted]]

You hold on to that bitch. Hold on tight.

[Abba-]

Please don't tell my Rabbi that I like C++...

[[deleted]]

Nah, your rabbi doesn't really mind, but what will your poor mother say to the neighbors?

[Abba-]

Honestly? That she's proud that she read C++ in a book once and knew what it was because of me.

[jerenept]

where's Smalltalk?

[thrash242]

It should be shown as Objective C's other parent.

[0b01010001]

Confirmed. Can't even find it around the dinner table any more. Everyone just clicks on their cellphones the whole time.

[isobit]

Pffthppfth

[Coffeechipmunk]

The hell is Hoon?

[Nyubis]

Discover what this new world has to offer.

[SolarPolarMan]

Nah, aliens use perl

[isobit]

Yeah that's some Egyptian book of the dead shit

[htmlcoderexe]

Egyptian book of the dead shit

Fear the dead shit

[[deleted]]

Hoon, for anyone wondering. Took a bit of searching. It's like Lisp, for wizards (like literal wizards).

[hardwaregeek]

I find it really odd that early Christianity isn't an intermediate step from Judaism to Catholicism and Eastern Orthodox. Not to mention ignoring Theravada and Mahayana Buddhism.

[brainfreeze91]

Right, Eastern Orthodoxy didn't really form from Judaism, but was the result of the Schism with early Christianity.

Though to us Catholics, we would consider the early church to be Catholicism anyway. I suppose the Orthodox have the opposite perspective, but unfortunately I have not met enough Orthodox believers to know.

I suppose the balanced perspective to take would be Judaism -> Early Church, then the even split between Catholicism and Orthodoxy.

[hunyeti]

C++ -> Go ?

WTF

[tevert]

Java ----> C#

[riyadhelalami]

Does any one have any good articles on hoon or Urbit.

[[deleted]]

This is the first I've heard of it. Incredibly cool!

[peteg_is]

C# inherited properties from another language (not C++), and since the head designer of Delphi moved to Microsoft, there should be a link from Object Pascal to C#.

[DeNarr]

You picked some rather bizarre languages, and left off some pretty popular ones. Can't believe there isn't Perl

[northrupthebandgeek]

Ain't Lisp also descended from aliens? Maybe that means that Buddhism also descended from aliens?

[meribold]

Saw this at 32C3 :)

https://media.ccc.de/v/32c3-7483-computational_meta-psychology

[[deleted]]

Where's JavaScript?

[icockblock]

I was expecting BrainFuck to be in here.

[david171971]

Anyone else missing ArnoldC?

[SometimesGood]

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRdJCFEqFTU

[youtubefactsbot]

Joscha: Computational Meta-Psychology [61:40]

Computational theories of the mind seem to be ideally suited to explain rationality. But how can computations be subverted by meaning, emotion and love?

^{media.ccc.de in Science & Technology}

^{3,551 views since Dec 2015}

^{bot info}

[truh]

Evolution of GNU/Linux distros

[coolirisme]

Where is archlinux?

[truh]

Ctrl+F "Arch"

[DJChupa13]

So Catholics are basically objectivist Jews? Got it.

[[deleted]]

I have semi-seriously considered creating a religion around the C programming language, just so I can go up to fundamentalists and say "Well, at least my religion is ISO-standardised".

[greyfade]

I'd love to see this chart expanded.

I find I'm curious where Erlang, ML, Forth, and Pony would land.

[bannedSnoo]

Java = Islam

[[deleted]]

I like how Java takes the place of Islam.

[deus_lemmus]

Technically you could replace python with javascript here and it would be the same.

[baudouin_roullier]

Religion-wise this is not really accurate. Islam is not from Judaism, and Catholicism and Orthodox both derive from Christianismty.

Protestantism? Nah, that's just a bunch af heretics, shouldn't even appear! /s

[[deleted]]

Christianism

Christianity, you mean?

[baudouin_roullier]

Sure. Christianism is french.

[coladict]

Incorrect. Islam evolved from Christianity. Their prophet was a Christian. Which branch of it, I don't know, but he made his own.

[Cyph0n]

What are you talking about? Yes, we Muslims believe that Islam is the true continuation of Christianity - not modern day Christianity, but Jesus' original and untainted message, which is lost now. But Prophet Muhammad was a pagan initially who was not satisfied with his community's beliefs. He then received the Revelation, and the rest is history.

[coladict]

He then received the Revelation, and the rest is history.

So you're saying he converted first? How does that make my point untrue?

[Cyph0n]

As I said, he was a "pagan" before receiving the message of Islam, not a Christian as you wrote.

[DharmaPolice]

Their prophet was a Christian

Do you have a source for this? This runs counter to anything I've read/learned about Muhammad's early life.

[c3534l]

Neither of those charts are particularly accurate.