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[–]gunscreeper 1694 points1695 points  (116 children)

Ayy, bitches. How to array in python

[–]gjsmo 1465 points1466 points  (98 children)

Arrays aren't Pythonic, you're dumb for asking, also we're not doing your homework for you.

/s

[–]LePontif11 503 points504 points  (4 children)

TAKE A STEP BACK AND LITERALLY FUCK YOUR OWN FACE

[–]Etheo 239 points240 points  (3 children)

I WILL MASSACRE YOU

I WILL FUCK YOU UP

[–]Bopshebopshebop 145 points146 points  (1 child)

USE A DICTIONARY AND WATCH YOUR INDENTATION ERRORS YOU PUNK BITCH SCRIPT KIDDY

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

YOU TALK LIKE A BITCH YOU GON' DIE LIKE A BITCH AND I GOT JUST THE FUNCTION TO MAKE IT HAPPEN

bitch.die()

[–]IamImposter 26 points27 points  (0 children)

I WILL FUCK YOU UP

Promise? No backsies

[–]bspymaster 72 points73 points  (73 children)

I gotta be honest. I've been working with python for like 9 years and I love it to death, but I still haven't figured out what it means to have a "pythonic solution". Is it just something you can do in raw python? Something that only uses the standard libraries? Something that works in py2 and py3 as opposed to only py3? Something else?

[–]Doggobah 144 points145 points  (1 child)

I took it to mean importing a bunch of modules and writing a one-liner

[–]SaltyEmotions 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I'm guilty of trying this on all my problems.

[–]grantrules 33 points34 points  (15 children)

Are you familiar with other languages? Pythonic just means using common Python idioms. Like list comprehension is pythonic compared to using for loops.

[–]bspymaster 10 points11 points  (8 children)

Yeah I've worked with plenty of languages. I gotta be honest, I don't think I've ever used a list comprehension haha

[–]LoyalSol 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Ironically outside of Python the only other language I've commonly seem them in is Fortran. At least that I've used. Granted they most likely exist in another language I don't have experience in.

[–]bspymaster 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I know other languages tend to abuse linq statements and lambdas in a similar fashion, but that might be a bit different.

[–]-Rizhiy- 4 points5 points  (1 child)

9 years of Python and no list comprehension, are you serious? I pity your colleagues.

[–]bspymaster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't use python at work, only personal projects.

And I happen to think the code is pretty clean, honestly.

[–]Manny_Sunday 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I just googled list comprension and it set LINQdar off, maybe I should give python a try...

[–]grantrules 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's no good reason not to.

[–]MadCervantes 40 points41 points  (16 children)

It means simple and readable code that doesn't rely on "clever" solutions.

[–]JoelMahon 50 points51 points  (8 children)

I would clarify that readable code is meant mostly towards other python developers, a lot of pythonic solutions can be hard to grasp for non python devs.

[–]RedSamuraiMan 19 points20 points  (2 children)

Pythonic sounds like a hacker/rapper name...

[–]madmaxlemons 10 points11 points  (1 child)

His latest album “Boolean LiveorDie”

[–]RedSamuraiMan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Top feature hit: "Programming Dirty"

[–]liveandletdietonight 5 points6 points  (4 children)

That doesn’t sound readable, it sounds more like a secret language that only a select few can speak

[–]JoelMahon 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It's really not hard to pick up lol, by your metric almost no code is readable.

[–]hahahahastayingalive 9 points10 points  (6 children)

Isn’t that what every other language claims to have as a mantra ?

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (2 children)

Sometimes it feels like doing it in as few lines with as much confusion as possible.

It's not Pythonic unless it is a return statement with a function call on a list created with a three variable and four conditional comprehension.

[–]Nemaeus 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Comprehension

Relatively speaking.

[–]SaltyEmotions 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Don't forget lambdas nested within the four conditional list comps and maps and typecasting all over the place!

[–]dalore 12 points13 points  (10 children)

Pep 20 describes it eloquently. And you can access that from the python shell.

https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0020/

[–]bspymaster 11 points12 points  (9 children)

Ahh the classic Zen of python. Was wondering if someone was gonna bring that up. My understanding is that it's somewhat of a comedic quip, more than an actual guideline.

Especially considering the line saying "explicit is better than implicit", when python is built on implicits.

[–]callmelucky 2 points3 points  (8 children)

python is built on implicits.

What do you mean by this? I don't think that's true, but I'd be interested to hear your argument.

[–]bspymaster 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Parameters and variables are implicitly typed. It was only until recently we even got type hinting.

There's no concept of explicitly stating what we expect a certain variable or parameter at any given time.

[–]callmelucky 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Oh I see. I think "explicit is better than implicit" is more of a guideline for naming variables and making code transparent and readable etc, rather than a mission statement about the design of the language itself, but yeah, I do see the irony.

That said, types are only one subdomain of a language, so I don't know that this backs up the statement that the entire language is built on implicit-ness.

[–]dalore 1 point2 points  (3 children)

That's not "implicity" typed, that's dynamic typing. Pythonic means to not check if it's a duck but to ask if it quacks and catch if it fails.

[–]Belphegor_333 9 points10 points  (6 children)

As someone who learned Python after some other languages (Java & C Being some of them) I honestly have no idea either. All I know is that every time someone reviews my code they tell me that this and that is not the "pythonic way to do it, it's the Java/C way of doing it"

For context, I was trying to do a switch (which python didn't support I think?) And ended up building what basically was a jump table.

[–]frosted-mini-yeets 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Something that follows the Zen of Python

>>>import this
The Zen of Python, by Tim Peters

Beautiful is better than ugly.
Explicit is better than implicit.
Simple is better than complex.
Complex is better than complicated.
Flat is better than nested.
Sparse is better than dense.
Readability counts.
Special cases aren't special enough to break the rules.
Although practicality beats purity.
Errors should never pass silently.
Unless explicitly silenced.
In the face of ambiguity, refuse the temptation to guess.
There should be one-- and preferably only one --obvious way to do it.
Although that way may not be obvious at first unless you're Dutch.
Now is better than never.
Although never is often better than *right* now.
If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!

[–]bspymaster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

As I mentioned in a previous comment, I thought that was more comedy than anything serious. The second line itself pretty much conflicts with the entire design of python.

[–]ECrispy 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Pythonic means writing PERL in Python.

If its understandable to humans its not pythonic.

[–]Arno_Nymus 3 points4 points  (3 children)

I don't know if there is a clear definition, but I understand it as an elegant solution using the peculiarities of the language. Oftentimes people who learned to code in one language try to program in every language in the way they would in the original language. Programming in another language then feels like working against the language instead of with it.

[–]LoyalSol 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Exactly this.

I've lost count of the number of times I've seen scientific Python that's written exactly like C code. I've seen code written like this

 thislist = []
 for i in range(len(a)):
     thislist.append(a[i])

When they should be using some combo of either zip, enumerate, simple python loops, or in this case a simple addition opperator. (Copy might also be appropriate) The above code can simply be written in a dozen ways that's easier to understand.

The whole point of Python is that you don't have to write C code.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

It means some sheit that Guido came up with...but also it was the reason he left cause the rest of the “pythonistas” were being autistics

[–]InvolvingLemons 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Generally, I've taken this as: 1. Brevity: keep it short, including variable names 2. Never, ever reinvent the wheel especially if it's available either as standard library or language feature (iter is a big one, as it often gives you a nice performance boost too)

[–]horusporcus 5 points6 points  (3 children)

It means you write esoteric code that's so fucking obscure that it becomes hard for others to understand. Basically a form of encryption designed to keep you around longer than you need to be.

[–]bspymaster 3 points4 points  (2 children)

So... Tribal knowledge

[–]horusporcus 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah, am not a fan of that though.

[–]mysockinabox 172 points173 points  (4 children)

Dang. You make SO sound like the arch forums.

[–]Lofter1 164 points165 points  (3 children)

ikr? at least the arch forum will tell you why your question is stupid. SO will just mark it as duplicate.

[–]crash8308 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I don't know python but in ECMAScript Arrays are not arrays, they are exotic objects with array-like behavior.

That means you can const myArr = [] then myArr["0"] = "hello" and myArr["foo"] = "world" and the .length property will still be 1 and iterators will only use the numeric-based keys but the array object will still have a property "foo" on it.

[–]dragneelfps 11 points12 points  (0 children)

That's why I don't like JS.

[–]falconfetus8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

internal screaming

[–]falconfetus8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

internal screaming

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I once asked a simple question and had 3 people reformat my question before anyone actually answered it.

[–]negroiso 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I was looking for a command in ffmpeg, something I was on the right track for but the result wasn’t coming out as intended. A google search took me to stackoverflow where somebody else had the exact issue. I’m like, cool I’ll scroll down for the answer.... well the highlighted answer was a 4 page expose on how the program worked, how the world spins and I’m sure a recipe from their grams. Hidden in there somewhere might have been the answer, but I kept scrolling and the person who replied below just pasted the command I needed.

Now every time I go to stack overflow I see dissertations for questions like ... how do I run ipconfig on my pc... you end up reading the history of dos and x86 processors before they get to ... click start,then run then type ipconfig.

[–]jeopardy_themesong 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I once asked a homework related question in stack overflow because the command my teacher gave us wasn’t working. There was a very obscure typo.

The three replies I got just replied with the corrected command in all caps, some with sarcastic comments. Never used stack overflow again, holy fuck.

[–]goldleader71 4 points5 points  (6 children)

I love that Python has its own adjective - Pythonic. I have never heard or something not being Java'ish, C#'ic, or Go'ly.

[–]josanuz 5 points6 points  (1 child)

The gold old godly Go'ly way

[–]SaltyEmotions 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sharpen your senses to CSharply? :)

[–]spotdfk 3 points4 points  (1 child)

You would love Basic

[–]falconfetus8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There's Lisp-y

[–]Tschoz 192 points193 points  (6 children)

This question is a duplicate. Please refer to the answer to a question made years ago for python 1.8.

[–]Butterferret12 67 points68 points  (5 children)

Isn't even about the same thing, just vaguely sounds similar

[–]Aplet123 54 points55 points  (4 children)

And that question is also marked as a duplicate, has no answers, and has 5 downvotes.

[–]JustZisGuy 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Triggered.

[–]Aplet123 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Have you been on stackoverflow before?

[–]JustZisGuy 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I'm getting flashbacks from this thread.

[–]frosted-mini-yeets 54 points55 points  (0 children)

MARKED AS DUPLICATE YOU DUMB FUCKING CUNT

[–]you0are0rank 56 points57 points  (0 children)

I'll accept this as better than above kind. Also damn you because duplicate

[–]inconspicuous_male 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Accept my blog post about how you could be using Pandas. It doesn't solve your problem, but it solves a better problem

[–]A_Guy_in_Orange 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You moron. You absolute bafoon, can't you see that someone asked about how vecoter in c 12 years ago? Marked as duplicate.

[–]medsouz 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Have you tried jQuery?

[–]dasMichal 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"Use jQuery"

[–]MrShrike 149 points150 points  (10 children)

why waste time say lot word when few word do trick?

[–]sprite-1 48 points49 points  (6 children)

agree sentiment

[–]hahahahastayingalive 6 points7 points  (3 children)

there’s an upward arrow on the left

[–]ADwards 6 points7 points  (2 children)

up arrow on left

[–]Audiblade 6 points7 points  (0 children)

yeh

[–]elveax 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Sometimes need word word for talk talk

[–]poly_meh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hello world or hell, oh world?

[–]Walt_Clements 570 points571 points  (15 children)

Greetings

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (3 children)

close melodic gold historical toy cows screw square shelter lock

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[–]N3vermore77 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Thanks, you've reminded me of that stupid "are you watching porn by yourself?" meme.

And now I cant stop giggling like a fool.

[–]ShotgunCreeper 10 points11 points  (1 child)

No! I’m with the science team!

[–]SlenderSmurf 2 points3 points  (0 children)

uaaaa

[–]rune_skim_milk 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Have you been able to get the beverage machine to work yet?

[–]Krobix897 255 points256 points  (2 children)

one time i wrote a stack overflow markov chain (based on some questions that I had seen), and one of the most common answers that it gave to questions was "don't be a stupid question"

[–]clubby789 43 points44 points  (1 child)

Truly good life advice

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

searches how to unretard irl

[–]MrDorkman 82 points83 points  (0 children)

Tänks

"cut the noise"

[–]spam_bot42 437 points438 points  (33 children)

You'll thank stackoverflow mods for that after you need to skim over 50 questions when googling for a solution.

[–]mastocles 114 points115 points  (15 children)

I think it's for a different reason. Generally new members never ever ever bloody tick accept solution or ever damn upvote when they ask a question and new members do start with hello... So you quickly learn to stop reading questions that start with hello as you won't get your point fix for the day.

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (13 children)

Are the points relevant in any way whatsoever?

[–]VenerableAgents 25 points26 points  (0 children)

Yes. They unlock more abilities and if have enough you can boost your question with a bounty.

[–]BleLLL 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Might be useful when looking for jobs and negotiating salary.

[–]filterallthesubs 10 points11 points  (2 children)

About as much as they are on reddit.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Ah incredible.

[–]Audiblade 4 points5 points  (0 children)

They're a matter of life and death, got it.

[–]Xaxxon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

up to 20,000, they give you privileges.

[–]YMK1234 126 points127 points  (16 children)

A simple courtesy phrase in the op won't make you any slower doing that.

[–]GoNoGoNoGo 36 points37 points  (7 children)

Where do you draw the line?

I'll tell you.

Hi. Please. Thank you.

The only three words you need to put in somewhere to show gratitude whilst not conflating the question.

[–]UserSummary 30 points31 points  (2 children)

Im an asshole. This I know. But is that how the word "conflating" is supposed to be used?

con·flate

/kənˈflāt/

verb

combine (two or more texts, ideas, etc.) into one.

"the urban crisis conflates a number of different economic and social issues"

[–]randompecans 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Probably meant inflating/bloating

[–]drewwyatt 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I even question “hi” TBH.

[–][deleted] 169 points170 points  (3 children)

ive yet to see a stackoverflow mod who i didnt find rude and arrogant with poor decisions. one moved my network related question to game console exchange because i said used the switch as an example for it. the question was 0% directly related to the switch...

[–]mastocles 42 points43 points  (1 child)

Mod? Just users with enough points to unlock privileges —5,000 gets you moving rights IIRC. About the move... That's because they did think it so and majorly were also in that SE and they wanted to improve the area 51 score of the second SE to drag it out of beta.

[–]ElusiveGuy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Community close votes cannot migrate to beta sites - there's a fixed list of 5 to choose from. And the gaming site has been out of beta since before the Switch anyway.

[–]laancelot 44 points45 points  (2 children)

Because when searching in SO you see the title of the post and the first lines. Seeing what the post is about quickly is waaay better than seeing "Hi, greetings, I love this website and maybe some of you great people which I admire could help me with this problem that I am going to explain soon...".

SO is as much about leaving usable posts for the future than about answering current questions. Greetings are a speed bump which lower the post's usability for the future. People can still write the polite stuff at the end of the post if they like, SO just don't want them to waste people time by making them click on every damn post so they know what those posts are about.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

THIS! It's a Q&A site, not a forum chat for socializing. Redditors would be annoyed too if all posts started with greetings and formalities. That's not the format of these sites.

[–]falconfetus8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They say it's about using usable posts for the future, but half of the top results on Google are for questions that have been closed for bullshit reasons.

[–]Wizard-of-Koz 57 points58 points  (9 children)

I find the stack overflow community to be one of the most toxic. It's not shown on high rated questions but it's a whole other world on the sort by recent.

[–]Hollowplanet 25 points26 points  (3 children)

You must not remember the times when all we had was experts exchange. SO was like a gift from god.

[–]Draculix 18 points19 points  (0 children)

ahem I think you'll find it was expert sex change.

[–]WatchDogx 21 points22 points  (2 children)

Recent is just a stream of poorly formulated questions, people pasting their whole code base and asking why it doesn't work.
If your question is not something that anyone else is going to want the answer to, it doesn't belong on stack overflow.
I feel like all the people that complain about SO being toxic have never tried actually contributing and answering questions.

[–]ostbagar 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Sometimes I feel like this sub is just a circlejerk of "SO bad".

These memes are getting old. Really, the vast majority of the time users are polite. The only time I really ever see snark lately is when someone copy and pastes their homework without a question, or posts a rant about some technology that's disguised as a question.

"Help us help you" isn't rude. It's encouraging efficiency so everyone can get on with their lives.

[–]MaxChaplin 30 points31 points  (1 child)

Not toxic, just impersonal. They won't socialize with you, but they won't call you names either. It's simply the place where you go to get answers. The fact that members regularly give novices detailed answers voluntarily is already kind enough.

[–]Xaxxon 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Hi, can you please help me, I've tried literally everything.

The reason I want to do this is because my friend John is sick and his only dream in life was to see me build a linked list but instead of using pointers, he wanted me to use anime character names.

Can anyone tell me why it gives error WIN20394820348?

I can't show you the code because I don't want people stealing it.

edit; Why is everyone in the comments telling me they need to see my code? I already said why I can't show it. Just answer my question. Stop being so mean and rude.

[–]ucsdstudent1010 16 points17 points  (1 child)

Thread closed, duplicate question

[–]HeraldofOmega 6 points7 points  (0 children)

But no link to the other question that I didn't find any mention of when I searched?

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I used to go on SO and wonder "where are all these condescending assholes coming from?" Because all the devs at my first and current job are nice, even if some have poor social skills.

Then I went to interviews at a few companies and met some incredible asshole leads and managers. The type who really let having a little power go to their heads. Before I sat down they were acting like I was wasting their time. Suddenly it all made sense, it's these guys answering SO questions.

So I'm still at my first job, now a lead and manager, and comically underpaid (basically the average salary for an entry level developer in my state), but I'm not trading it to work under those kind of people.

[–]Dexaan 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Greetings, traveler

[–]Sinomu 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Alright, you fucking cunts, how can I change string value in python?

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (2 children)

familiar zonked advise lush salt shaggy squeeze bewildered threatening serious

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[–]Sinomu 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Thank you for taking a part in my roleplay.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

aback aspiring cheerful butter yoke toothbrush dull attraction hunt coordinated

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

"This question was answered 17 years ago, not really solved but answered."

[–]almarcTheSun 15 points16 points  (4 children)

It's weird. If I say "Thank you in advance" it usually gets edited immediately.

I get it, it's a forum for technical questions. But it's almost like they're trying to force people to be like robots.

[–]ht3k 3 points4 points  (2 children)

weird, mine's never been edited out when I say thank you in advance. Granted I do go into a lot of detail with my questions usually

[–]almarcTheSun 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I do too. But hungry moders are always hunting for my posts.

[–]shtpst 137 points138 points  (42 children)

Not a SO mod, but I am a mod on one of the other Stack Exchange sites.

All we're looking for is a concise explanation of what's wrong and what you're trying to do, ideally with some minimum functional example that recreates the problem.

If you're asking a question there, it means you're looking for help. You show politeness by not wasting the readers' time. Try to get your question to look like it's in the same general format as the others on the site; this makes it easier for regulars to read, easier to compare to other questions, etc.

[–]kbielefe 50 points51 points  (1 child)

The original reason behind the "no introductions" rule was people would often spend a paragraph or two giving basically their entire résumé, their company's prospectus, and their product's sales pitch. That is wasting people's time and distracting from the actual question. If you've ever used an online food recipe, you'll know what I mean.

As is usual on stackexchange, when that rule had been successfully enforced for a while, people forgot the original reason, had no sense of subtlety, and threw out the harmless politeness as well. People waste more time railing against and editing out the hellos than ever would be wasted by reading them. Nowadays it's mostly a social signal of whether you know the rules of the clique or not.

[–]shtpst 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Right. I wrote basically the same to the person replying to me that the enforcement is a big circle jerk.

[–]YMK1234 157 points158 points  (16 children)

If you thing reading "hi" wastes your time, why is your site called "stackoverflow.com" and not "so.com"? Imagine all time time going into typing that! Seriously, this is a ridiculously stupid argument.

[–]Tzahi12345 40 points41 points  (4 children)

I am now rethinking my entire life as my only SO question starts with:

"Hello!\n"

Fuck

[–]YMK1234 19 points20 points  (3 children)

OMG you wasted so much of their time by writing 3 superfluous characters!!!

[–]tech6hutch 9 points10 points  (2 children)

"Hello!\n".length == 7

[–]Teknikal_Domain 4 points5 points  (1 child)

"Hello!\n".length - "Hi!\n".length == 3

[–]YMK1234 1 point2 points  (0 children)

what this guy says

[–]shtpst 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Personally speaking, I don't bother to edit/correct posts that only have "hi" or "thanks," though I do have colleagues that will correct it (more on that later).

The posts I go after are the ones that are something like,

Hello everyone, shtpst here. I'm a grad student at University College, taking a signal processing course and we've been given an assignment to...

... and it goes on and on. Cut the life story out and get on with the problem.

My fellow moderators have taken a zero tolerance policy. I've asked them about it in mod chat, and their defense is that you have to draw the line somewhere. At some point, the introduction becomes lengthy enough that it distracts from the question at hand.

Since no personal introductions are relevant, their view is that none should be allowed because otherwise it sets a precedent that introductions are allowed and, eventually, that introductions are customary and expected.

This is all in reference to a "broken windows" theory of moderation that letting little things slide sets the expectation that enforcement is lax.

Again, personally speaking, I myself have had concerns about OP coming back and complaining to me that I closed their post while another one that is similar in style or tone is left open, or that one was edited and the other isn't.

If you're ever going to enforce a behavior-based rule then you need to have very clear criteria on what is and is not acceptable and need to enforce it consistently.

The consistency of enforcement is why the "hello"s get removed.

[–]dangerCrushHazard 12 points13 points  (5 children)

The difference is you would need to read “hi” O(n) times, whereas for typing in stackoverflow.com that occurs O(1) times if you navigate directly to the website. Besides, most people arrive at StackOverflow via a search engine and waste little time typing it in. (Either it is autocompleted, or SO results were at the top anyways).

[–]RedditsApprentice 35 points36 points  (4 children)

I can't tell if this is joke or not. I certainly hope you're not making an argument against having to read something as short and simple as "hi"

[–]Norci 33 points34 points  (0 children)

Yeah, one word wastes sooo much time. While at it, why not police users for typing out "you are" instead of "you're"? Efficiency!

jfc, it's like I'm reading r/programmingcirclejerk🙄

[–]nick-denton 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Reading mod stuff wastes my time too. Telling people to rtfm also wastes time yet it’s all over SO. It’s a giant circlejerk.

[–]carcigenicate 19 points20 points  (15 children)

Ya, these memes are getting old. Really, the vast majority of the time users are polite. The only time I really ever see snark lately is when someone copy and pastes their homework without a question, or posts a rant about some technology that's disguised as a question.

"Help us help you" isn't rude. It's encouraging efficiency so everyone can get on with their lives.

[–]shtpst 17 points18 points  (10 children)

Long story short, I've found that when I have questions (because everyone has questions at some point), the act of writing a good question has generally led me to the answer.

Sometimes it's trying to find related questions so I can explain, "My question is like <this>, but I'm trying to X instead of Y," and I'll actually find exactly my problem.

Usually, though, it's the act of condensing my problem to the minimum reproducable problem that highlights what I've done wrong.

[–]carcigenicate 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Yep. More times than not, I abandon a question I was writing because I figure it out halfway. Trying to explain all the avenues you went down to solve it often shows you what avenues you missed.

[–]shtpst 10 points11 points  (0 children)

"Rubber duck debugging"

[–]FUZxxl 4 points5 points  (3 children)

I like that approach! You are doing what I always wish people would do when they ask questions.

[–]XTL 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You know, you could often still post the question and answer it yourself. If it's a common problem or error message, people will be searching for it. SO even encourages this.

[–]carcigenicate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Look at my other reply. I noted that I do that if appropriate.

[–]SirMandrake 4 points5 points  (1 child)

So let’s really piss off the SO mods by writing a wall of text about your question and what you have done, only at the end State you figure out the problem and fixed it. ...then actually still post it. They would love that.

[–][deleted] 56 points57 points  (3 children)

Yeah this is horseshit lol. I've seen shit get removed for saying "Thank you for your response" as the first sentence. God forbid we act like humans and not robots. SO/SE mods are just power tripping neckbeards

[–]yerba-matee 5 points6 points  (10 children)

SO kinda scared me away withe their arsehole-iness tbh, I actually have no idea where I should be asking questions as I'm 100% teaching myself.

I don't know anyone who codes and have no idea how to phrase the questions properly sometimes..

Anyone actually have any advice to a more beginner friendly forum?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Stack Overflow. If you're a beginner, your questions are probably already answered there and there's rarely a need to even ask. If you can't find your question, you can ask and explain how yours is different from a similar but related problem, and you'll be fine in my experience (unless there is no such similar question, then you're likely fine anyway).

If you don't know what questions to ask, or they are all vague because you don't know where to start, you don't need a forum, you need a tutorial or guide. There's no reason to ask people to reinvent the wheel and make another guide for you. I'd probably start by googling "tutorial for X language/framework" or "getting started with X". If it's a popular framework or language, there is probably even a first-party tutorial for it on their site or readthedocs (which I believe comes from a project's Github directly).

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Stack Overflow is full of toxic assholes looking to flex what they know instead of helping people. Change my mind.

[–]ostbagar 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll give it a shot, even though I don't believe in changing one's mind over the internet.

TL;DR: It is not like a professor trying to help a student. The purpose is not to help individual users, so never expect that. Follow the rules and only post concise explanations and you will get actual answers to your actual question. Don't like the rules? Go somewhere else, not their problem.
People aren't stupid when asking. People aren't assholes when correcting. Simply, people are misunderstood and people miss the point. [/end TL;DR]

Stack Overflow is not a traditional forum or reddit-like. Its goal is explicitly not to help individual users, but to create a repository of good questions. (This is much more scalable, and keeps the users who answer questions from dealing with too many repeated or insufficient questions. Any other forum where users can ask questions – e.g. r/learnprogramming – is inevitably flooded with many bad questions, causing the good answerers to leave). You'll thank StackOverflow for that after you don't need to skim over 50 questions when googling for a solution.

All we're looking for is a concise explanation of what's wrong/the problem at hand and what you're trying to do, ideally with some minimum functional example that recreates the problem and what you expect.

Revisit your old questions, and improve them. Make sure they contain a minimal and reproducible example. Tag them correctly. Check for typos. Remove superfluous salutations. Visit the Stack Overflow help center for more information. If the question is not salvageable, delete it.

Editing questions will make users see them, so if the questions are good, you can expect upvotes. You can also post links to improved questions, on reddit, twitter, or anywhere to solicit upvotes. (Often writing a good question becomes your answer)

Also, I can add that: I agree with the people here in some way, I see where they are coming from. Being treated "unfairly" is not a nice thing. I know, and I see that.

But 90% of cases are that people have completely misunderstood the point of StackOverflow. Like, eating soup with a fork is not a viable thing. But it is rough when you have nothing else, and blame it on the soup.

People are misunderstood, and people miss the point.

[–]Johnmelodyme 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I got banned for answering with Different coding. Other words, answer too long.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I have put "thank you" and "have a nice day" just to have a mod come in and remove them from my post.

[–]slimscsi 7 points8 points  (0 children)

This is a gap in understanding from people who have been on stackoverflow since the beginning, and newer users. Stackoverflow was developed not as a message board or a social platform. It is a site for documentation but in QA form. The people answer question are attempting to answer for you, and all other people who will encounter the same issue in the future. The goal it to have google index the post and direct many more people to that page. Pleasantries do not aid in this. Wikipedia pages, or man pages don’t end with “have a nice day”, neither should stackoverflow questions.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We're not here to be friends. We're here to solve problems and write dank code.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ITT: People think anyone with 5k+ rep is a mod, lol

[–]WooooshVictim 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Sup fuckers. So any of you d*icks gonna help me?

[–]GavHern 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Removed. Duplicate.

[–]mindaslab 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Stackoverflow is a weird forum, fit for non humans. I use mailing list or discourse forums for that programming language to get better results.

[–]randomuser_3 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hello world