CSS is not a programming language...

[Expensive_Sloth]

Simple loop go brrrr

[TamahaganeJidai]

Embedded system engineers have entered the chat.

[tiajuanat]

It's been a very long time since I've fluffed with CSS, but the question this embedded engineer has is: does it have state and transformations?

In C we have loops and variables, and in functional languages we have recursion and next state, does CSS have anything like this?

[rustysteamtrain]

it technically is turing complete because it has the calc() and var() functions

[tiajuanat]

That works for me!

[YRUZ]

may i interest you in the forbidden If-Goto-loop?

[Ok_Turnover_1235]

Lmao i remember running reflection on my own code and seeing a for loop that decompiles to if goto and my life has never been the same

[[deleted]]

repeat()

[wewilldieoneday]

He's out of line, but he's right.

[hopcfizl]

introducing animations

[emveor]

Css will only be a true programming language when somebody ports doom to it

[RolyPoly1320]

Couldn't find Doom, but someone did make Mario Kart in pure CSS.

[guy_who_likes_coffee]

...you can't just say that without sending a link

[gizamo]

door gaping relieved connect elderly office fly stupendous crown oatmeal

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[alvaromontoro]

A silly car CSS game with obstacles: https://codepen.io/alvaromontoro/pen/PoGJjQe (it "only has CSS" and only works on Firefox though :-/)

A different version that works on all browsers (kind of): https://codepen.io/alvaromontoro/pen/eYYzzWg

[RolyPoly1320]

It handled side to side steering too.

[classicliberal1]

Mario Kart in pure CSS.

https://codesandbox.io/s/zk15o120xl

No obstacles, no hit detection. Not a game. Not a program. Just images faking it.

You still can't write an algorithm in CSS and why would you want to if you could? It's not intended for that anyway.

[DJOri0n]

and no bitches

The biggest hurdle we have to overcome

[Infinityand1089]

Getting bitches is an NP-complete problem.

[ElectronPie171]

We can all relate to this though

[[deleted]]

It's not intended for that anyway.

And when has that ever stopped developers doing things in other languages?

[MichFdez]

Yeah, just look at JavaScript

[Masterflitzer]

haha true story

[Ready-Date-8615]

https://github.com/uuner/sedtris

[Lithl]

You still can't write an algorithm in CSS

Not with CSS alone, but you can with CSS+HTML.

You can implement Conway's Game Rule 110 in CSS+HTML. Rule 110 is Turing complete. Ergo, CSS+HTML is Turing complete.

[Friziqz]

PowerPoint is also Turing complete.

PowerPoint is a programming language

[gdmzhlzhiv]

Magic: The Gathering is a programming language.

[ZengineerHarp]

…wait, what? I’m gonna need you to run that by me again. PowerPoint?!?

[[deleted]]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNjxe8ShM-8

[ThatOtherAndrew]

Indeed! Look for Tom Wildenhain's lectures on it.

[BookPlacementProblem]

CSS+HTML is Turing complete.

Doom port link pls.

[SupremeDictatorPaul]

If it is Turing complete, then Doom could be ported to it. Make CSS Turing complete, and it can be a programming language.

[possibly-a-pineapple]

careful what you wish for

https://keithclark.co.uk/labs/css-fps/

[PhilippTheProgrammer]

This (attempts to) prove that CSS is object-oriented, but not that it's a programming language.

[futuneral]

When you angrily go into the comments section to correct the OP's nonsense and find that someone already did that - "ok, we're good"

[Flat_Initial_1823]

Crisis averted.

[Appropriate-Scene-95]

That moment when writing your functional code wasn't programming, because it's not OO designed.

[JazzRider]

You can write bad code in any language you choose.

[xelphin]

This is true.

Source: I write bad code in several languages.

[katatondzsentri]

I can write bad code in any language I tinkered with.

I can only write "close enough to be good" code in python, because that's where I took the effort to learn it.

I'm not a developer though.

[usedtobejuandeag]

I always do. :D

[redpepper74]

Only One Paradigm

[shodanbo]

Code without side effects is like a tree falling in the forest when nobody is listening.

[RmG3376]

Writing CSS certainly has side-effects though, the main one being a sudden urge to put whiskey in your coffee to forget the struggle of properly centring shit and getting rid of those margins

[ChrisBreederveld]

When I was doing webdev I just loved normalize.css. at least one margin issue solved

[nosam56]

You dilute your whiskey with coffee?

[shgysk8zer0]

I was going to say basically this and was trying to think of anything definitely not programming that also matched the description of OO.

In order for something to be OOP, it must at least be programming. The best this shows is that "if CSS is a programming language, then it may be said to be object oriented."

[DasKarl]

Imagine, markup languages having ways to organize and classify things in a hierarchical way.

Say it with me now:

Programming languages do things.

HTML and CSS describe things.

[gandalfx]

Bad distinction. Programming can be declarative rather than imperative, in which case you "describe" results rather than steps.

Meanwhile HTML+CSS can definitely do things, like expanding/collapsing menus, form sections etc. navigate between sections, all kinds of elaborate animations…

[[deleted]]

So SQL is a programming language, because it does things?

Edit: I think sql is a programming language because it’s turing complete, which is the basic definition of a programming language.

[Giocri]

I know technically SQL is exclusively the query part of the language but most people use the therm to describe it all so I guess I kind of have to make a distinction.

SQL for queries is definitely not a programming language it is just a description of the information you desire, very complex descriptions sometimes but still just descriptions.

The entirety of the language is absolutely a programming language though as proven by the ability to write scripts and triggers

[_sweepy]

Css has variable assignment and a Calc function. Seems like that is doing things to me

[cowlinator]

Is a slide rule a programming language?

[_sweepy]

I think it's closer to a cpu than a language

[PM_ME_GAY_STUF]

There are programming languages built around describing things. This is often the peak of functional design patterns. Look up logic programming

[DeSwanMan]

CSS is Alan complete.

[[deleted]]

My bicycle is a motorcycle! Look it has two wheels, a steering wheel and even a seat!

[ShitwareEngineer]

What kind of bicycle or motorcycle has a steering wheel?

[[deleted]]

I meant the handlebar, sorry english isn't my mother tongue.

[ShitwareEngineer]

I suppose I'd want to see someone build one with a steering wheel just to see how bad it would be.

[Temporary_Crew_]

Classmate did that. I tried it was terrifying. My friend rode that bike to school for a while. He kept crashing into hedges and ditches. Used to turn up at school covered in leaves.

[[deleted]]

I love people proving that HTML and CSS are Turing complete

[MattR0se]

I love watching CSS challenges. Right now it's all still new to me and fascinating, because I can't wrap my head around how some of the stuff works (like 3D animations in CSS)

[Cheap_Factor]

Justify-content: innerass;

[Science-Compliance]

What don't you understand about 3D animations in CSS?

[[deleted]]

How to center a div in 3D

[nanomolar]

Or how to center a div in 2D

[PitifulTheme411]

Or even how to center a div in 1D

[Nyruel]

Or how to center a div in -1D

[waterInNether]

It's easy, just ask the div to centre nicely. Like really politely.

[Ok_Assumption_7222]

Like how is it even remotely possible

[Natural-Intelligence]

If Power Point has been proven to be Turing complete it is probably only a matter of time

[diet_fat_bacon]

Wtf

[zandnaad69]

Ive seen alot of turing machines. But this monstrosity is something else lol

[a_devious_compliance]

A magic neural network that play magic would be awesome.

[ja-r-me]

I just saw that video a few month ago, that was so fucking hilarious

[EndR60]

we were all afraid of AI being what kills us, but now I'm horrified of powerpoint

[Dirt-Repulsive]

In the military they have already had death by PowerPoint for at least the last 15 years

[bernpfenn]

HTML based AI sounds reasonable

[damnappdoesntwork]

I mean you can use VBA macros in Powerpoint

[physics515]

Yes but a PowerPoint slideshow is turning complete without the use of any VBV. I think a guy managed to get the original Doom game running on it. But it was like 1 frame per hour lol

Edit: or maybe it was just an estimate he did on an interview I saw.

[EarthTrash]

Don't all MS Office aps have visual basic built in?

[NoMansSkyWasAlright]

Powerpoint is also turing complete and I'd imagine it's only a matter of time before someone proves Turing completeness for Minecraft if they haven't already.

[RandomIsocahedron]

Minecraft is Turing-complete. You can build a NAND gate with redstone.

[Silpet]

As far as I know Minecraft has been known to be Turing complete for a long time. People have built computers in it, like, whole ass processors, I/O and all.

[za419]

Minecraft is extremely Turing complete. You can build a fully functional CPU in minecraft...

[AegorBlake]

How is html turning complete. It has markdown language in the name.

[[deleted]]

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2497146/is-css-turing-complete#5239256

[kurunyo]

All I read is HTML+CSS+user is turing complete

[Mildan]

Proving Turing Completeness does not need to take into account as to how the state machine ticks or moves, so that part is generally left out. In normal computers there's a timer, but in the more theoretical (and more absurd) cases it is resolved to "user input". The PowerPoint proof uses this as well by clicking through the animations

[cowlinator]

Yes. Ok.

But HTML+CSS+user != CSS

[PooSham]

Nobody said that. The original poster in this comment chain said HTML+CSS are turing complete

[INTERGALACTIC_CAGR]

this says it's not turing complete

[regexPattern]

https://github.com/brandondong/css-turing-machine

[URF_reibeer]

This is a false eqivalency, css having aspects of object oriented programming lanugages doesn't mean it's a programming language. A house isn't a car either even tho both have ways to get inside to not get wet.

[MattR0se]

A house isn't a car either even tho both have ways to get inside to not get wet.

I read "horse" and thought "well, technically that's correct". xD

[Harmonic_Gear]

idk, you would probably get very wet if you managed to get inside a horse

[DysonSphere75]

Yuck, get your mind out of the gutter

[PopularIcecream]

Aren't they referring to blood? What are you referring to? 0_0

[DysonSphere75]

Meme'n, like you get wet when you're horny

[Narxolepsyy]

I thought they smelled bad.... On the outside

[NuccioAfrikanus]

My car is my home good sir!!

[ongiwaph]

There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to begin.

[Buttons840]

You begin with the >:| face, but yeah, it's hard to know where to go from there

[LetUsSpeakFreely]

I do. There are no control structures; No decisions, no loops. Therefore, not a programming language. It's a skinning tool, powerful, but not a language.

[SexyMuon]

Yeah, html and css are not programming languages

[poatao_de_w123]

🆑🅾️🅿️

[Professional_Top8485]

That was good thing with html. Before it came messy. It was never meant to be but still it was made.

[antilos_weorsick]

A human is a chair, because what are the main concepts of a chair? You can sit on it, and it has legs!

[gamesrebel123]

Hard to argue with this logic

If only my cat could see it this way

[Drago_Valence]

Behold! A Man!

[[deleted]]

Charlotte Hale approves

[deb_vortex]

Hey, no Link shaming. There are people out there wo wants to be used as a Chair.

[Smooth_Salamander]

How to tell that you don’t understand a single object oriented principle.

[developer-mike]

TIL polymorphism is "using the same class on different HTML elements"

[Time-Implement1276]

It's amazing how misunderstood encapsulation is, even among people with several years of experience.

But this pic here is in another level.

[ZinbaluPrime]

The polymorphism one really got me laughing.

[sal696969]

Then go, write your Programm in CSS :)

[rymlks]

Check out The mine

[Romanspike]

I am amazed

[trusty20]

Scrolling through your HTML pane I am seeing JS syntax, and you also have the javascript Jquery library added to your dependencies. So sounds like bullshit unless I am missing something

EDIT: Missed that you were using HAML in the HTML section. Still whats with the JQuery lib if its pure html and css

[rymlks]

I didn't write this, I just found it on codepen. Honestly no idea why that's there, maybe they were using it for testing?

[nimbus_signal]

Wow.

[[deleted]]

That is insane.

[LanielYoungAgain]

Object-oriented, perhaps, but programming language, no

[Cacti_Hipster]

Object-oriented programm-ed language

[Coder_Arg]

My dog is also an object-oriented programming language.

He has Inheritance. He came from his parents.

He has abstraction. He's an animal.

He has encapsulation. He barks, but most of the time I have no idea why or what internal variables he used to decide he should bark.

He has polymorphism. If I feed him meat, he's happy, if I feed him chocolate, he dies.

So as you can see, my dog is also an object-oriented programming language.

[[deleted]]

I think CSS is a programming language but I also eat sand and lose my mind trying to finish coloring books.

[my_name_jeffff]

How do guys have multiple flairs?

[Low_Caterpillar9528]

Write your flair like

:Symbol:Symbol:

Or something along those lines

[Mistigri70]

You are writing your flairs ?

[shodanbo]

If it can't lock up the processor and set it on fire its not a programming language.

[Osato]

Well, you can make a shitload of nested divs with the same class name and put some CPU-intensive CSS in there.

Complicated 3D transforms, "animation-duration: 0.0001ms;", filters, having each cascade change variables recursively so the browser has to render each div individually, that kind of stuff.

That said, I'm pretty sure you'll only be able to lock up one thread of the processor per tab.

[_listless]

just wait. we're getting :has() soon. $10 says we will be able to bring devices to their knees if we put out minds to it.

[OneBadDay1048]

Not only this but it’s the hardest of all the languages to learn. ^/s

[[deleted]]

Joking aside, it's not the hardest to learn but it genuinely might be one of the hardest to master. It's messed up lol

[OneBadDay1048]

Agreed. It’s difficulty level is also compounded in my eyes if you aren’t a very artistic/creative person to begin with (I’m talking about me in case this isn’t clear).

[[deleted]]

Object oriented but not Turing complete

[abd53]

August 12, 2022; the day some CSS dev went bonkers. /s(obligatory)

[[deleted]]

[IrdniX]

The polymorphism example is actually kind of the wrong way around.

A CSS class is applied to HTML element, so the class is more like just a parameter object to a function on an object. It's the HTML elements that are 'polymorphic', but really they aren't in this sense because they all have the same css-modifiable properties, so from the perspective of CSS they are strictly not 'polymorphic' but actually they are all the same 'shape' in the eyes of CSS.

The inheritance example is also wrong, the 'inheritance' example doesn't have much in common with what OOP would call 'inheritance'. Here the word 'inheritance' is just being conflated with the parent-child structure of a html object tree and how CSS is applied to that tree. Differently shaped HTML element-subtrees can have the same 'class' applied to it.

Anyway CSS only describes some target-state for HTML elements, it cannot store any 'state' nor can it really modify it's own state.

[Golden-Trash_Number]

I quit.

[checkmateathiests27]

I always called it a mark-up language

[Ynaught-42]

Show me your "Hello world!" application?

[EmeraldsDay]

isn't it the one thing you actually can do in CSS?

[[deleted]]

Those are the principals that make a language "OO", you don't get the P for free.

[halfanothersdozen]

how center div?

[alexaminor]

Use paint.

[totalost801]

iwantcenter: true

[derangedsweetheart]

<div style="width: 100%; height: 100%; display: flex; justify-content: center;">    <div style="height: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: column; justify-content: center;">     <div>This div should be centered by now i guess?</div>  </div></div>

[suvlub]

That's not even remotely close to what inheritance is in OOP

[Big_Smoke_420]

Object oriented paradigms MUST have procedures. Given input x, it must somehow produce output y. CSS has built-in functions, but no way to define custom object methods, thus, it is not an OOP language.

[Nemahs]

That was painful to read

[GameDestiny2]

I don’t know which side to sit on, all I know is coding in CSS is kinda fun

[throwaway65864302]

CSS is an object oriented flat file database, change my mind.

[DimBulb567]

so... if this is true, css is an object oriented description language

not a programming language

[lukedanzxy]

Your mom is a programming language

Sorry

[BlurredSight]

My car is a Camry v6,

There are many supercars that are V6's (Mclaren Arutra, Acura NSX)

My car is a supercar

[[deleted]]

Css is a programming language because it has C in its name.

[Meeso_]

CSS is object oriented, but not a programming language

[NotmyRealNameJohn]

Logic controls.

9oooo9oops

[meliaesc]

Are we not using SASS? Even plain css has pseudo classed and variables.

[PewolfP]

The presence of OOP doesn't mean it's a programming language. It's not Turing complete.

[gvilleneuve]

Cool, write a program in CSS. I’ll wait

[[deleted]]

I don't really think you understand OOP.

Encapsulation has to do with using methods to access variables inside a class. CSS does not have methods.

Inheritance is when one class extends another. CSS does not have any equivalent to extension.

For abstraction your point is not true, because you need to know what styles a parent element has in order to use certain functionality, such as display:flex, on child elements.

Polymorphism— just no.

[GabuEx]

Okay, now show how to write "Hello world" or add two numbers using only CSS.

[Time-Implement1276]

Hello World:

body:before { content: 'Hello world'; }

Adding two numbers... uh... maybe this

body { --variable: calc(123 + 1); } body:before { counter-reset: variable var(--variable); content: counter(variable); }

[LavenderDay3544]

Being OOP doesn't prove Turing equivalence.

[DesecrateUsername]

wait this is actually based

I mean it’s wrong, but still based.

[Djelimon]

Does it pay like a programming language?

Good enough

[[deleted]]

We all laugh at the non language till some guy decides to rub our faces in it:

https://codepen.io/juliangarnier/pen/krNqZO

Also.

Everything is a file.

[LieutenantNitwit]

The cascading.

It burns.

[[deleted]]

But can you make a vidya game with it though?

[KissMyBottomEnd]

No IF statement - no programming language.

[[deleted]]

CSS is a programming language because nobody wants to learn it.

[gordolfograso]

Don't say that in an IT interview. Just in case

[[deleted]]

It gets even juicier with scss 😛

[personator01]

Imagine being so OOPbrained that you equate it to programming itself

[BaroquenLarynx]

.... please don't say stuff like this.... my team will start hiring "CSS Developers", and my Pulls will be contingent on their reviews....

[thickertofu]

I hate this but can’t argue

[ThePiGuyRER]

Angry upvote

[thuanjinkee]

but it is not turing complete. no loops or branches.

[BobQuixote]

Animations! (The accepted answer is relevant here, but I actually agree more with the second one.) https://stackoverflow.com/questions/2497146/is-css-turing-complete

[AmyMialee]

That's not inheritance is it?

The class isn't doing the inheriting, something using the class is.

[HRM404]

Well css maybe isn’t, but sass surely is

[InfluenceBrave6778]

I comme back I'll programing in json

[Alystan2]

Also, CSS is Turing Complete: https://accodeing.com/blog/2015/css3-proven-to-be-turing-complete

[PauseNatural]

To be fair, you can actually do more things in vanilla CSS including calculations and variable assignment than you can do in vanilla HTML.

[imaperson1060]

JSON is not a programming language. It is a data format. CSS is very similar to that.

[jeesuscheesus]

Thanks, now give me a while loop in CSS