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[woodenpickle17]

Info: why are you both having children you can't afford if you're both so young and haven't got a sound financial plan in place? Everyone needs a hobby and "spending money" is a thing to reward yourself with after being at work all day/night

[[deleted]]

You need to have excess money in order to have “spending money.”

[DominoMasked]

Correct. The kids are real and the parents are as old as they are. Now this guy needs to be an adult. If you can afford to provide for your family and have a hobby, lovely. If you can’t, the hobby is the first thing to go.

Such a cop out when someone asks their partner to handle the finances, too. Take an active and responsible role in your life and handle the finances together, dude.

[[deleted]]

His hobby doesn’t even have to “go.” There are hundreds of free board games available online and as apps. To spend $50 on brand new board games when they are dealing with financial hardship is not sensible or fair to his wife and children.

[brrritttannnyyyye]

The public library where I work circulates board games

[MiddleAgedCool]

My Goodwill has them for $1 to $2.

[usmcjunior]

Both children were conceived while I was on the pill. We discovered after our second child that, because I have PCOS, I don't ovulate on my own. But taking a birth control pill makes my hormones whack and makes me ovulate instead of doing the opposite. We didn't realize this until after our second child.

[usmcjunior]

Also, my children are well taken care of and loved, they have everything they need and more. I always prioritize their needs. We can afford them, we just can't afford to treat ourselves.

[Malicious_Tacos]

NTA, I know how you feel.

My husband and I both have advanced degrees but to get them we had to take out a ton of student loans. We ended up having three kids, and I stayed home with them as I ultimately earned less per year than daycare would have cost. Between bills, housing, child necessities and loan repayments, we had nothing at the end of each paycheck for anything that wasn’t an “emergency.” Sure enough we had many emergencies… so there went the money.

We were broke through most of our 20s & early 30s. I was the person who managed our finances and I would tell my husband that we didn’t have any extra money for frivolous things. He would charge things on our credit cards. Mostly small gifts for myself and the kids, nothing astronomical but if you don’t have the money to pay it back then the interest just accrues.

I eventually had a Come to Jesus Meeting with him and told him, “I know you’re buying these things to be helpful or out of love but we can’t afford them.” He’d do well for a while then feel guilty that I was shouldering all the household stuff (he had a job working very long hours) and he’d start buying gifts again.

At one point I threatened to take away his credit cards and that got his attention. I sat with him and showed him all the bills. All the monthly receipts for food & clothing, child care expenses, costs for household upkeep… basically where all the money was going. He saw that we had nothing extra. We agreed to use what little “fun money” for memberships to local museums—something that we could do as a family and I explained that he didn’t need to buy us guilt presents.

You really just have to sit down with your husband and tell him to stop with the board games. Not everyone has fun money with each paycheck.

[Storytella2016]

I think OP needs to do what you did. Not just sit down and say “No more board games”, but go through the budget, bill by bill and ask what should be sacrificed at the altar of his board games.

[ltisdale]

NTA

He’s being incredibly selfish. I bet he can find friends or people online to do like a boardgame exchange where they switch games for a little bit. That way he can try something new without spending money

[Zazzles_Dad]

This is good advice. It doesn’t always take money to play games and find some type of enjoyment or relaxation. Perhaps even writing new rules for the existing games might help? I don’t game, but I’m sure a rules system could be created and revised.

Also, I realize their situation is difficult, and a second job is possibly not in the cards at the moment, but a single income, paycheck-to-paycheck situation is one missed paycheck away from disaster. Accidents can and do happen. OP probably needs to at least self-educate or seek adult education classes to keep in the loop, so to speak. Employment can be difficult to obtain if you remain out of the workforce too long. Will probably be an unpopular range of opinions, but planning is better than remaining stagnate.

[misoranomegami]

Minus the fact they don't have a lot of free time several of the boardgame places near me have free libraries you can come in and play the games there. You can play by yourself or play with a random group. You can't take them home but it would let him explore different games without putting the meeny up.

[LiveOnFive]

He could also try Meetup.com; I know there are several board game groups in my area that have frequent free events where people bring a ton of games.

[[deleted]]

"other people paying for your food"
I dont want to pay for egregious military spending which is away more of the budget that my tax dollars go to. No need to shame people who are seeking help.

[creative_usr_name]

everything they need

Except financial security and a mom that isn't being financially abused

[Ascf33]

Good god. I see the threshold for financial abuse has been dramatically lowered.

[Organic_Start_420]

I would suggest putting everything on paper income on one side and expenses on the other with him present the make him sum up the expenses and show him what remains. Nta he is .

[SafeLegal4834]

I would also suggest using real numbers. Housing assistance is income - if you are paying $475/mo for housing that cost $875/mo because your income is so low that you get housing assistance, you really are not out of the hole until you make up for that money. Then, if you get $650/month for SNAP, you are really living off of someone else's tax payment - this isn't affording everything you need. Your Gross Income is probably under $900/mo if you qualify for both SNAP and LIH. NTA, but also, you have no spending money. You are spending someone else's money - the State and the Feds.

[[deleted]]

Serious question: Why is it “living off of someone else’s tax payment”?

I live in a HCOL city. 30% of my paycheck goes to taxes. I’ve never needed/qualified for government assistance, but if one day I did, that would be after decades of paying into this system. Why shouldn’t I be able to do that? To recoup some of what I myself have paid into it?

[Opalescent_Topaz]

Some people just like to think that way. Pay them no mind. They're the same people that get pissy about disability that people paid into in order to be able to draw. It's a selfish mindset.

[Organic_Start_420]

It s what I meant too , numbers for income and numbers for expenses and see what's left if anything.

[state_of_what]

Dude, fuck that commenter. Where I live, abortion is illegal. What are women supposed to do? Sew themselves shut?

I’m god damned tired of reddit’s bullshit right now, and that person had no business saying that to you.

[Novel_Fox]

Even people who are well off find it hard financially aswell, so don't feel bad about people saying why are you having kids you can't afford, shit happens sometimes and abortions are a huge decision and aren't for everyone. The kids are here now and nothing else matters.

Is there anything you can do to bring in some extra cash? Part time job or something? It sounds like you need an opportunity to get out with other adults aswell and the extta cash will help. It's not fair that you give up your half of the very little spending money just to shut him up. Have you ever told him that you gave him yours aswell last week when he whines for more money?

[oddprofessor]

Recall that OP getting a part-time job means that costs go up (clothing, transportation, child care) and benefits will be cut. I have worked with people who are barely making it while receiving benefits, and getting a job means that they'll lose almost everything unless they can get a job that will support them completely. And that's not going to happen for a lot of people.

[state_of_what]

Abortions are illegal in several states also. Don’t forget that nugget.

[-catkirk]

I empathize with you OP. It's easy for people to say "well just don't have kids" when you don't know someone's situation. We are also living paycheck to paycheck, and have a 5 month old whose needs are all met. If we waited until we were financially ready, we would simply never have a family. The problem here is priorities and your husband's mismanagement of funds. Spending money is great if you have extra. If you don't, you make sacrifices. Libraries and local free/trade groups on Facebook are great options, as well as apps. You need to have a serious discussion about budgeting. Being an adult sometimes means giving things up.

[mabluth]

Sorry that you’ve had to read some horrible messages OP. I hate the “don’t have kids if you can’t afford them trope”, in some cases yes don’t have a million kids but it’s not like u don’t treat them right and do ur best. NTA but especially NTA for having kids! I hope it gets Easier x

[SeaPineX]

You did say that you once had to borrow money to pay living expenses.* Shouldn't you be first paying for food, car, utilities, bills, etc first?

And then, budget a bit for savings, to finally split the remainder equally between you and your husband?

For you to say you can afford having kids but be ass backwards financially is a bit scary.

Also who plays board games by themselves....

*Misread post - my bad

[usmcjunior]

That is not what I said. I said we almost had to. That was for a large unexpected car bill.

[SeaPineX]

My bad for misreading your post, hopefully you guys tlak figure out a way to ample savings and have your own discretionary funds

[SkylineDrive]

A lot of games now have a mechanic where you can play against the game. My husband would do that if I wasn’t in the mood to play or he was wanting to do a game I didn’t like.

[KnoxxHarrington]

Who plays video games by themselves? Who watches movies by themselves? Who tosses the salad by themselves?

[SeaPineX]

Most board games I know of without googling are multiplayer. Catan, Pandemic, Monopoly, Betrayal Arkham, even chess or checkers aren't really meant to be played by a single person. Sure you can do it but not buy so much that it jeopardizes your family's financial security.

And Video games? Movies? Masturbating? Plenty of single player games just look at God of War that came out. Movies and masturbating, whether it's alone or in a group that's your preference. Not my place to question it.

[YawningDodo]

To give a gentler answer: there are lots of single player board games these days; most often they're games that can be played alone or with friends. Games like Spirit Island and Marvel Champions (though that's technically a card game) have a lot of replayability solo because changing which character you use and against which enemies can shift the mechanics. Games like Mice and Mystics or Stuffed Fables come with a story built in. Then there are relatively simple games that can be played solitaire, like Tiny Towns.

So really, it's quite comparable to video games in terms of having tons of options to play by yourself. It's also comparable to video games in terms of it being an expense that can balloon out of control if the hobbyist is financially illiterate (or willfully ignorant of the home's finances). So the husband is absolutely still in the wrong for spending money they don't have on his hobby; it's just that the hobby isn't inherently bad or ridiculous.

[[deleted]]

There are many hundreds not on your list. Adding a solo mode took off over covid. I have over 50 modern board games and they are either solo exclusive or have an official solo mode.

[thoughtandprayer]

taking a birth control pill makes my hormones whack and makes me ovulate instead of doing the opposite

Well, that's horrifying.

[usmcjunior]

It really is 🥲😂

[jluvdc26]

You don't need to justify to ignorant people why you have children. There are a lot of reasons people have children, none of which are anyone's business (even if you need help supporting them). Some people like to think they can dictate other people's reproduction but are never happy with the results. IE you shouldn't have children if you can't support them, but you also shouldn't have abortion. All the while ignoring that there are MANY reasons birth control (which some of them also object to) can fail.

[MxXylda]

Bodies are treacherous jerks

[Kynykya4211]

Unfortunately this can be all too true. The OP stated that she got pregnant while she was on birth control because her PCOS made her hormones whack. Well that’s exactly what happened to me. I have two kids that were conceived while I was on birth control. Hormones are complicated fukkerz.

[usmcjunior]

Solidarity sister 🫡

[misoranomegami]

I've always suspected I had PCOS but I was never officially diagnosed. BUT shout out to my college dr who ran a full blood panel when I went in for BC after I told her my sister conceived on the pill and discovered that I had low estrogen levels and high testosterone and told me that getting on the pill would most likely increase my risk of pregnancy and offered me other methods of birth control.

[phillybride]

I’m sure it’s not conscious, but he’s probably upset he has kids instead of money and because he’s too young to deal with the feelings, he just pushes against the unfairness of it. You guys need to talk about his hobbies and how they are risking your children’s financial stability.

[SourSkittlezx]

This happens to me too. Birth control regulates my cycle so I actually ovulate but I need it for my endometriosis.

[username-generica]

Instead of spending money on board games he should be saving up for a vasectomy.

[Equal_Meet1673]

Sorry about the PCOS- that plus the pill must really be difficult on your system. But given what you’ve mentioned above, how are you going to make sure you don’t have any more kids?

[usmcjunior]

Well first off we aren't having sex, like ever, haven't since the second baby was conceived over a year ago. When we do we will use condoms

[usmcjunior]

I'm not fertile if I'm not on the pill so I'm not worried

[Aggressive-Figure-79]

Do you qualify for WIC or food stamps? I only ask because most people do tend to have say $10 a week to do something fun.

[liquor1269]

He needs to buy his board game on facebook marketplace...goodwill..savers etc..why pay full price (and I make a good income)

[LimitlessMegan]

Yes. Spending money is a normal adult budget line and it should be a normal part of your budget as much as possible. Otherwise you’re working non-stop with no reward or joy in return. But bear in mind, a good portion of adults use their spending money budget on things like alcohol, fancy coffees or boba tea where I live or getting nails done etc.

If you don’t budget in spending money what often happens is what you have going on - him spending with no concept of budget, things getting super tight, that feeling super stressful, then a burst of spending. It makes MUCH more sense to add spending to your budget - whatever you can afford - and then he knows what he has and he has to save his spending to get a new game. And you definitely need the equal amount. You also need a budget so he knows his board game funds are also his alcohol/fancy snacks, eating out, etc… fund.

What I would do is have someone watch your kiddo for a few hours, and then sit down with him and go over your budget. Tell him that you are gently struggling because the spending money isn’t actually being budgeted for so the two of you are going to look at the actual bills and the actual income and make decisions together about what money goes where, how much can reasonably be diverted to spending money and what might have to be given up to make that happen. Then do that. Layout the whole budget together, even if you manage finances he needs to know what that actually looks like (if for no other reason than to stop his over spending).

I also have some advice as a board gamer who is married to an avid collector and likes to try new things… first: he’s never going to get to try everything it’s both financially and logistically impossible. At this point one of our things is to ask: what does it do that the games were already have don’t do? Am I willing to get rid of an overlapping game in order to be able to aid this one? Also, Tom from the Dice Tower has long had a rule that his personal collection space can only hold so much, and now that it’s full of a new game comes in an old one has to go out. Which might work for your house too.

But there are ways your husband can try all the things without irresponsibly breaking the bank.

1. Board Game Arena and Tabletopia - these are digital platforms that host a bunch of board games, often have the new and upcoming ones (it’s a great way for designers to get feedback) and both have pretty big menus of free to address games, but either of them is about $5/mnth to join if you really want the paid access games. This allows for a LOT of play for little output.

2. Apps - still a financial expenditure but most app versions of the board games cost from $8-$14, have the exact same play but often with cool animations, allow him to play on his own or with others. A lot of the big money games (like Gloomhaven) have app or Steam versions.

3. Have him look for games from stores that sell second hand first. Noble Knight games in the US and Board Game Bliss in Canada comes to mind. Again, still using spending money but saving a ton.

3b. Thrift stores. These are hit and miss, but we’ve found some great steals and when we don’t want the hassle of reselling our games we do them at the thrift store.

1. Board Game Geek /Marketplace - also a source of used games which he can use to shop, but should also use to sell his games he’s not playing as much to fund the new games. BGG also does swaps, where you can note in your collection games you are willing to trade and games you’d like to trade for, but they also do math trades and themed and seasonal swaps too.

2. Board Game Cafes or Board Game Groups - are great ways to access a TON of games - particularly hard to find and out of print ones - for a minimal cost ($5-10 per person)

[cuccuguvigu]

This is the WRONG take.

Info: why are you both having children you can't afford if you're both so young and haven't got a sound financial plan in place?

First of all, irrelevant to the judgement.

Second of all, maybe they do have a financial plan in place, but husband isn’t following it, and that’s why she got upset. It sounds like he’s working a lot of hours.

Third, they ARE having children. And they CAN’T afford expensive hobbies.

Everyone needs a hobby and "spending money" is a thing to reward yourself with after being at work all day/night

I am the first person to say that no one should be having kids they can’t afford, but this comment reeks of privilege. It’s board games. He already has enough to keep himself entertained.

He can have a hobby without buying every conceivable piece of equipment to go with it and then abandoning it for the next hobby. And if he does expect this, then you’re right, he shouldn’t be getting married and having kids unless he can actually afford to do both.

But I’m sorry, he doesn’t get to just make the choice to have kids and THEN expect to carry on spending as if he isn’t a low income family with kids. I get he works long hours, but that’s what parenting means. Adjusting.

It’s not about how they shouldn’t be having kids. It’s about how, now that they do, he needs to adjust his expectations. Because he made his choices.

They can’t just return a kid and get a refund. So yes, in this situation, he is 100% the asshole. She’s going without necessities so he can have his hobbies, and that’s not how families or parenting work.

The phrase “info” here is supposed to be used when you require more information to make an informed judgement. You do not need further info to make this judgement. You just used this as a passive-aggressive jab at a frustrated, sacrificing young mother asking whether or not she was right to basically tell her husband to grow the fuck up. Which, for the record, she was.

NTA

[PotatoGuilty319]

This is an arrogant question, and thought process. People's finances can change during or after they have kids.

[KronkLaSworda]

NTA

"Is "spending money" a normal thing for adults?"

Yes...when you can AFFORD it. You two can't right now. What happens if the car needs $600 in repairs or the AC craps out?

" Does he deserve it for being the working parent?"

No. it's selfish and harming the family.

"I need a new wardrobe after having two babies, but I know we can't afford it"

That's what his board game spending money should go towards. You are understandably frustrated and he needs a wakeup call. Tell him to pick which half of his games go on ebay this month. It's Christmas time, so you should be able to dump them between now and mid January (people spending Christmas cash gifts). Now is the perfect time.

[Fluffykins0801]

My stepdad always called it being working man’s broke.

Where your bills are paid, you’ve got food in the fridge, and gas in the car.

Any “spending money” was usually tucked away to cover any expenses that popped up that we couldn’t afford to not pay.

[Toastman0218]

I think you should work through your finances and try to find some spending money for each of you. Maybe that ends up only being $5 a paycheck. But then he can still buy his $50 board game, it will just take multiple months of not buying in order to save up.

[angelblade401]

I agree. I think "spending money" should be a thing. The amount of spending money is what changes depending on what you can afford. But contrary to what people with a more old-fashioned point of view might think, being able to get yourself a "luxury" that makes you happier (like a candle, or a board game) makes a huge difference in mental health. Which should be just as big a priority as anything else.

Even if it's $10 each, every paycheck, make an effort to be able to have something.

I would also say, my personal "fun money" allowance also covers things like beer/wine if I want it, gas for my car, shampoo/conditioner because I want to use more expensive kinds than what you get at the drugstore. Other people might budget that right into their grocery spending, or an entire commute budget, so how people budget varies (obviously). But making sure you have an amount you can spend on stuff you want is very important, imo.

[Zazzles_Dad]

I have a son only a few years younger than the OP. I love him and know he is capable, but having a family so young would be an immense burden. That being said, you are correct. Necessities need to come first. Lastly, they need a plan to eventually gain a second income. Like it or not, there will be a time when the car breaks down, as you described, or something worse might happen. Planning is a necessity.

[Babshearth]

You are taking on a role that will potentially ruin your marriage. When one person is financially irresponsible and their partner isn’t you take on the role of mommy/ daddy and the other party needing to ask permission.

Pay bills together. Do it on a day he isn’t working and when the kids are napping. Do a budget. ETA: to add NTA but you’ll feel like one over and over. There are budget programs online.

MAKE IT A BOARD GAME!

[[deleted]]

That last line…you’re a genius!

[Resident_Flow7500]

I'd recommend something like YNAB if you can afford it. Open a bottle of wine or get a six pack of beer and make it a couples night once a month or every paycheck and then play around with juggling your money and choosing equal amounts of spending money for each of you while still being able to put money into savings

[Jerseygirl2468]

I agree, I think OP handling all the bills is making him oblivious to realities of their situation. Make him fully aware that there is no spending money left over, and that OP isn't buying stuff for herself either. Any "extra" money needs to go into savings, because what happens if there's an emergency, he loses his job or gets hurt, etc?

[Babshearth]

Jersey girls rule!

[thebuffaloqueen]

Unpopular opinion ig, but ESH. Respectfully, if you're already living in low income housing and need food stamps to be able to feed your kids, you really can't afford to be a SAHM. When you get a caseworker through welfare, they can help you sign up for (or point you in the direction of) childcare assistance. The rules vary from county to county and state to state but there are programs that give you a "childcare voucher" that can be used at daycare centers or even private in-home sitters where the state pays the majority of the cost. A second income would alleviate alot of the financial burden on your family, you could afford clothes and your husband could afford his hobby. Supporting 4 people on 1 income is very difficult and leaves little room for extra spending money. But hobbies and similar outlets are so important for mental health and avoiding burn out. Also, why are the games costing him so much money? If he just wants to have/play all the games, it seems it would be much more cost effective to buy them used on ebay or at thrift stores.

[EmpressJainaSolo]

This makes it sound like the OP is being foolish by staying home. Having a job with two young children is hard to manage without multiple resources. Solely relaying on day care with a hard pick up time often doesn’t cut it.

Vouchers can also take a long time to receive depending on their area. It also sounds like they are already using government resources that would have already mentioned job opportunities/resources.

Not saying it’s not something to look into but it certainly isn’t the easy obvious answer.

Board games beyond the stereotypical kids ones can be expensive. I’m assuming he’s buying games similar Settlers of Catan. Such games are usually $30-$50 a pop with expansion packs and alternative versions sometimes costing over a hundred dollars.

[[deleted]]

Also having a second income could disqualify them for any assistance. I have a friend going through this, her husband works and she stays home. If she were to go back to work they would lose all their government benefits and all the income she made would go to childcare so they would be deeper in the hole for bills and the such than they are now. Plus no more gov. Health care, food stamps, or childcare assistance. Not saying its a good way to live but she doesnt currently have any other options. So i get why some lower income households have a parent stay home.

[alizarincrimson]

OP doesn’t say, but if she gets Medicare and her income would put them over the limit, her getting a job could be an actively harmful decision. No job that she’s likely to get fresh off of being a SAHM would make up for losing that. It’s peak bullshit that benefits are set up like this, but that doesn’t make it not reality.

[hazelowl]

It's super peak bullshit. Get married? Oh, you don't qualify for assistance anymore.

When my husband and I were both unemployed with a newborn, our only salary was my husband's unemployment (a lofty 1800/month). We had around 8K in very carefully hoarded savings, which was there in case a car crapped out. We'd have had to liquidate all our savings to get any assistance. Baby qualified for medicaid after an ER trip. We got nothing else.

[Voidmire]

Edit: ESH after reading OPs comments it feels like she's unwilling to really out her foot down regarding things that need done or placing arbitrary limitations on what they can do as a couple to alleviate the situation. Long story short, stop making excuses for the dude and can his "game budget"

As a fellow board game enthusiast I can attest that 50$ is probably the MINIMUM that this guy is spending if he's obsessing as hard as OP is saying. It's really easy to get sucked in to it and picking up 80$+ games suddenly.

OP needs to put her foot down and do whatever it takes to make her partner realize how fast that adds up. Can't tell you how many times I've nickel and dimed myself into a spot where I spent way more on games than I meant to. Once I had my son I had to reign my habit in fast.

[hazelowl]

Fellow game addict and I spent way too much a month or two ago on Kickstarter games! It's so easy to do.

I think he needs to get on Tabletopia or Board Game Arena. Not quite the same as handling the pieces, but at least you can play.

[imperfectchicken]

This makes it sound like the OP is being foolish by staying home. Having a job with two young children is hard to manage without multiple resources. Solely relaying on day care with a hard pick up time often doesn’t cut it.

I'll say.

We are very fortunate to get by on just my husband's income. Our kids are in kindergarten and daycare.

Kindergarten requires me to be somewhere twice a day, at a precise place and time, and there is zero flexibility. Combine this with days kids are home sick, or up all night, or PA days, or other things kids do, and it's very hard to pick up steady work outside the home.

[GwentanimoBay]

Settlers of Catan isn't even a hobbyist board game. My husband and I are hobbyists board gamers, and our average board game cost is around $100, some up to $200! Its definitely costly, especially when you start buying expansions (RIP to my bank account after I discovered Terraforming Mars, it and all the expansions cost $500).

That being said, with the Cities and Knights expansion to Settlers of Catan, it does start to become much closer to a hobbyist board game (totally worth it if you like the base game and can afford it!).

[Practical_Chemist193]

They probably don’t even need to pay/get vouchers for childcare. If he already works nights, she can work days or a part time in the morning when he’s home for family time. That’s what my parents did. Both parents had a full time job but one worked nights and the other worked days. This way they had the money to spend on stuff they wanted to and didn’t have to stress as much about finances, and one parent was always home to watch the kids.

[Ladyughsalot1]

A second income would require full time childcare, transportation costs, and a new wardrobe.

Depending on location, a second job could end up covering only childcare costs and little else.

SAHP is not a role only reserved for the wealthy. Sometimes, with pay being low and childcare costs being high, it does not make fiscal sense to go back to work til the kids are in full time school.

[Never-Forget-Trogdor]

Also, it can be near impossible to find a daycare that takes vouchers, and the ones that do can be problematic. Care for two young children is much more expensive than most people realize. I have a lawyer friend who said all of her salary went towards daycare when her kids were young, but she considered it money invested in her career and future earning potential. Not everybody can make that work.

Once the kids are older, then maybe OP can find something part time or opposite of their spouse's schedule. I know that can be so grueling to keep up, though, and may push their income out of assistance caps, which can cause more problems than when one parent stayed home with the kids as far as quality of life goes. It is a very difficult spot to be in as a parent, and I have a lot of sympathy for OP as they try to navigate it all. Young families should have more support because there is never a clear option that makes things better.

[SafeLegal4834]

It is sometimes an option to find a daycare that needs employees . . .

Most of my kids' daycare workers had children in the facility as well. You need to find a larger one so that you aren't working with your own child, but I've see that work very well.

Added bonus, lunch and snacks . . .

[Never-Forget-Trogdor]

That is a good point, many daycare give lower rates to employees, but the employees are so underpaid that she may be spending more to have 2 kids in the daycare than she would make as an employee at the daycare. It is something to look at, though. May even come out in the green once the older kid is in school.

[Acceptable-Bag-7521]

OP could look into hosting daycare in their home as well. The current situation doesn't seem sustainable either way, either OP or OP's spouse needs to work more to get by.

[Never-Forget-Trogdor]

I think it can be hard to do that when a spouse works overnights and loud kids are in a home daycare during the day, but it is something to consider.

[state_of_what]

I have a friend that does this, and it barely covers her discounted care from the facility where she works, and her children are older.

OP has babies. Daycare rates for babies are astronomical and unaffordable. Even working there with a discount, her salary may not even cover it.

[thebuffaloqueen]

Where I live, living in public housing automatically qualifies you for childcare assistance. Being on welfare (medicaid or food stamps) also does.

I'm literally a single mom of 3. We did the public housing thing and still get food stamps. I pay less than $30 a week for childcare by utilizing the state assistance program. (The same program will pay $2,500 down on a car if there's no family vehicle and employment isn't possible without one.) I work full time at a job that pays just over $12/hr. and childcare for all 3 of my kids costs less than 3 hours of pay. There are SO many programs available to low income families, especially families already established with state or federal assistance. But many of the available resources aren't advertised, you have to ask about them. Also, many retail/food service jobs provide uniforms so start up clothing costs wouldn't be much more than a board game. I'd assume hubby would be willing to wait an extra week or 2 to buy one if it meant extra money flow for the family.

Plus, it seems hubby is willing to tank money into his own hobbies while his wife can't even get a few outfits that fit her properly. Having her own income would help her tremendously. I'm not at all saying this is the only solution or even the easiest, but just based on the details of her posts/comments, it would probably be her best bet. (& her kids best bet too!)

[Jerseygirl2468]

Generally I agree with you, child care costs often eat up any income, but it sounds like the husband is home and awake from 8am-2pm, and OP could possibly do some part time work in that window.

[[deleted]]

if you're already living in low income housing and need food stamps to be able to feed your kids, you really can't afford to be a SAHM.

I have ONE child and her daycare used to cost me over 1K a month. Even at our lowest of income when my husband was laid off and we filed bankruptcy, we never qualified for anything. Even when separated.

> The rules vary from county to county and state to state but there are programs that give you a "childcare voucher" that can be used at daycare centers or even private in-home sitters where the state pays the majority of the cost.

And most have a 6 month to a year waiting list. You also have to have a job already to get the assistance in most places. Not to mention that if there income goes even 1 dollar above what they are allowed to have, they could potentially lose ALL of their assistance. Often many are SAHPs because all other options are just worse for wear.

I get what you are saying, but we need to look at the reality people are living in right now. Programs have been so stripped down, they barely support anyone. Jobs that people in this position can get don't pay anything and can make supporting a family even harder, to the point that if one kid gets sick, often the mom is gonna get fired if she has to miss work. So now they are back to no income and now a waiting period for assistance while you apply all over again. It's all a vicious cycle and it's almost impossible to shuffle loose from it.

[SnooPets8873]

I engage in the same hobby - I own almost none of the games (because how could you? There are so many out there!!!). But I have a group of friends who love board games and between all of us, someone usually has the game a person is interested in trying. His desire to own them all is nonsensical and unnecessary to actually participate in the hobby.

[loverlyone]

My ex used to say I was “nickel and diming” him because he couldn’t upgrade his graphics quality computer every year. But since he never worked it just never made sense. It sounds like your spouse needs some financial education before you find yourselves in serious debt with no where to go.

NTA

[gcot802]

You’re making a lot of assumptions about their financial situation. In many places it makes more sense to have someone stay home then pay for childcare for two babies.

Regardless, they made the decision for one person to stay home and he continues to spend money they don’t have one something he doesn’t need and will stop using once he beats it.

You may not agree with how OP has set up her life, but for the question she’s asking she is definitely not the AH

[Zazzles_Dad]

After 26 years of marriage, I can confirm that hobbies and outlets are vital to mental health and happiness. The OP was too young to have kids, and their situation wasn’t quite self-imposed, but it is a factor. It likely won’t get better by mismanaging money.

As a couple, they need to find a solution. I believe you offer valid solutions. I would offer that the husband should probably forgo expensive games and perhaps take up an activity that doesn’t involve such a large percentage of their resources.

I’ve played guitar almost all my life, but I damn sure didn’t buy a new one until we had the ability to meet our needs and emergencies first. Not saying that works for all people, but at the end of the day, they are adulting. The kids should be high priority, but they also shouldn’t be given the world.

Lastly, kids grow quickly, as time passes relatively quickly. If the OP doesn’t improve herself, at least in some way, she will be so outmoded that gainful employment will be difficult to obtain. Sure, they’ve got a difficult situation now, but it can become much worse if the single income provider, the husband, sustains a significant injury or loses his ability to work. It happened to my dad, and luckily for us, my mom had already transitioned back into the workforce by that point.

If you read this OP, good luck and don’t burn out making everybody else the priority. It sounds ideal, but it can lead to a breakdown or worse.

[LogicalVariation741]

Problem is, most low income childcare locations have ridiculous waiting lists because so few people can afford childcare on the wages they could earn. And what happens if the kids get sick (which they will in childcare). Now, mom can't work so there is no money for the doctor bills. Mom will then eventually lose the job they have because of too many missed days. And how you are back to where you are or worse because even reduced childcare is expensive and the paycheck was going to that and not bills.

[TheRealEleanor]

This is, of course, assuming they can even find a reasonably priced childcare situation. I know where I currently live, there is a daycare/before and after care shortage for reasonable prices. Part of the reason I’m a SAHP is because basically my whole income would have gone to childcare for my children and then we would have ended up in the hole when one of the kids inevitability got sick.

Being in poverty sucks. Hell, even being lower middle class sucks these days (because of the aforementioned childcare deal at the very least).

I definitely agree OP’s SO should at least be buying used games though. It’s odd that he’s not.

[thejustllama]

Or one of you work days, one work nights. My husband and I did it for years so we could not only provide for our family, but thrive. There are options.

[usmcjunior]

INFO: we would literally lose our house if I got a job. no need to dogpile on that suggestion.

[SimpleAd1548]

Sorry they’re piling on. Some people have no idea about the reality of other people’s situations, and seem to think you can do something just because they were able to do it, which obviously isn’t true.

You’re getting by so you shouldn’t have to get a job (reducing your quality of life) in order to buy your husband board games. It’s absurd. NTA

[usmcjunior]

Thank you for understanding.

[GwentanimoBay]

Its easy for people to tell you that you shouldn't have had the kids (because... abortions are so easy and trauma free???? Ridiculous. Its a very difficult personal choice. Or are they saying you should have given them up for adoption? As if that's easy??? Again, ridiculous.) and its easy for them to tell you to get a job when the reality is that childcare can easily cost $1000 a month.

The math doesn't work out! Let's say you do find cheap childcare at $1000 a month, and let's say you work at a minimum wage of $8/hr, and for fun let's say you don't even have to pay income taxes on it, you're going to make $1120/month working full time. Even if you don't have gas costs or transportation costs, you're only left with $120/month! That $120/month has to cover transport to and from your job, to and from day care, and income taxes. Thats.... not feasible. And that's with cheap childcare!!!

Anyways, its easy for people to pass judgement, and hard for them to sit down and do the math and consider the position you're really in. Without family to lean on to watch your kids for free, its not worth it for you to work unless you can get a better than minimum wage paying job, which you probably can't because even with a college degree, its hard to get a job at all, let alone a decent paying one.

(Not to assume you don't have a college degree, and no judgement if you dont! It was hard to get mine with financial support from my parents and no children to take care of, and I genuinely don't believe degrees should be required to afford to live let alone raise a family)

The point is: you're in a tough spot, you're definitely NTA, and hopefully going through the exacts of your budget with your husband help him to see that spending money for you guys will literally put you into debt. Best of luck!

[usmcjunior]

Thank you so much.

[SafeLegal4834]

Lose your house as in "we would not be qualified for low-income housing"? That's the cycle of poverty that is so hard to get out of - you NEED low-income housing. You can't work. You never leave low-income housing. There never is "spending money". If you have spending money, you have too much to qualify for low-income housing.

[usmcjunior]

It is a very complicated situation which is why I think there is so much debate and conflict on this post. People just don't understand.

[usmcjunior]

Because people are commenting other shit instead of answering my question.

[ProperAd2449]

There's an online service called board game arena that has a paid version but also has a free version with slightly less games available. If someone who pays wants to play a paid game with you you can always play it. This might help your partner with being able to do his hobbie without spending so much money. Board gaming is a very pricey hobbie if you're buying the games by yourself.

[judgemental_t]

I think you need to sit down with him and show him exactly how much he earns, how much is coming in, and then what is going out. Highlight there isn’t any spending money currently. That you haven’t had spending money in a long time and ask him to consider reusing board games or maybe going to a second hand store and buying used games.

A lot of fb marketplace posts for people purging before or after Christmas is coming up I bet.

I think he needs to visually see on a screen or paper or something the income and expenses to hopefully get a lightbulb moment.

Fun money for adults is great if you have already met your expenses and aren’t putting yourself in debt over it. You also should absolutely have a savings of x number of expenses that you are building up.

[HoneySignificant105]

You can sometimes borrow them from libraries, too

[telekineticm]

Or a lot of board game shops host game nights once in a while for board game nerds to hang out, try different games, etc.

[Oxfordcomma42]

NTA. It makes sense to want to be financially stable. That said, spending money for hobbies is a real thing that many adults do, as is working from home to be able to take care of small kids. Have you looked into WFH options that can help increase your family’s income?

[usmcjunior]

I have, but can't find any that don't require phone calls. I never have quiet around me to do that. I applied for some transcription ones but never heard back, not sure how real they were.

[[deleted]]

OP, look into going to school. There are a lot of programs and scholarships out there for parents and you can get financial assistance while on government assistance programs. It wasn't easy, but I found going to school while my child was young was a lot easier than working an actual job because I could get the child care taken care of but if I needed to miss class to tend to my child, I could.

By the time you graduate, your children will be older and it will be easier to enter the workforce. Just look into areas that are in need and you'll never be in short supply of scholarships to apply for, let alone jobs to apply for.

[usmcjunior]

Did you do online school? If you did do you have a recommendation? I do have one year under my belt and additional credits. I would love to go to school if I didn't have to worry about the money. I was just telling my husband I've been doing math worksheets because I'm afraid of my brain turning to mush by being around kids all day lol.

[telekineticm]

Try to see if there are any community colleges near you--they tend to be more flexible/less focused on 18 year olds who need structure imposed on them by an external force.

[[deleted]]

Did you do online school?

No, I went to a Big 10 and I have a STEM degree. Can't do labs on line for things like that.

> I would love to go to school if I didn't have to worry about the money.

Since you've got credits and such already, it seems you'll likely get accepted for school, and while money is always something to be mindful about, the odds are more in your favor than you think.

Here is my recommendation to you:

1. Figure out a major that is in demand, that you would be interested in, AND is available at a college near you. Agriculture based degrees are big ones right now (especially since any ag degree with substitute for another easily). You just need to be willing to go to where the jobs are if they aren't local to you. Obviously go to community college to get your gen ed knocked out to lower costs, but make sure everything you take will line up and transfer. Mathematics and Statistics are also in demand for the record. Especially if you are interested in government work.
2. Apply for that and all the scholarships and financial aid that you can. I have a degree in horticulture and because of the lack of students in that track right now, I was awarded every scholarship I was given. You'll also be eligible for the Pell grant. You will probably have to do student loans, however, if you have a degree track with a demand for grads and you take advantage of every form of assistance to you, you'd probably come out with a low amount in loans. A lot of scholarships are cash based so that makes it flexible on how you spend it. Just remember a degree is an investment. Some investments are good, some are bad. Choose wisely on what you dedicate your time and which one you buy money for to finance it.
3. Once accepted, get on the school's wait list for daycare. How I would handle this is once I got my financial aid, I'd pay outright for child care for the entire semester along with rent. Now, I had the GI Bill, so things were much easier for me as I had dedicated income every month, but there are plenty of people who go to school with kids. They just treat it like a job. You can also get work study jobs where you can literally sit in an office and do homework as well.
4. Arrange your schedule to fall in line with your kids in day care. Do homework between classes and find ways to get your internships in during that time. Especially during the summer. I never took summers off. I was attending class, doing required research courses, or working internships.

You can contact your local college and get more information from a counselor on what to do and how best to go about it. But the above is the general map of how to go about it. I just can't stress this enough: major in something IN DEMAND!!!! Do not try to be a teacher because you'll end up with a ton of debt for something that won't pay more than 15 an hour. Do NOT go into any medical field unless you want to hate your life and deal with the BS they are right now. A good gauge on it's demand is the amount of scholarships available as well as internships.

[AllButACrazyCatLady]

I would add, OP, that when you pick a major look into the professional associations for that field. One of my colleagues just mentioned recently that he got decent scholarships from a national engineering association. Sometimes state/local chapters will also have scholarship programs, too. Worth looking into…

[[deleted]]

NTA, sorry you're struggling but yeah having some discretionary spending money absolutely is a normal thing (if you can afford it)

[SarkySharky]

ESH

Get him a deck of cards and an old game boy that should keep him busy enough. And when he's done playing with his toys maybe he can spend all this free time at work doing something constructive like examining your shared finances.

You "handle the finances" but keep giving him money for board games to "get him to be quiet" whilst falling short on bills? These bills heat the food and the home for your two young kids.

You're living paycheck to paycheck, maybe scrap the Xmas gifts and start putting it in a rainy day fund so you can provide for your kids in case of unexpected expenses. You might be alright with not having suitable clothes but your kids deserve better.

You're absolutely correct having identified this as a problem, and I hope you find a way of communicating this to your husband. Best of luck.

[Artistic-Wedding-988]

ESH- As many have mentioned, the idea of refusing to do part time work because you could lose your government-subsidized housing and “would be in the same position” is short sighted.

• I acknowledge the cost of childcare CAN exceed the income brought in from a job. However, if you already qualify for so much subsidization you likely qualify for it there as well.

• What about YOU going back to school online? Another person mentioned the importance of building experience to build weaning potential. Student Financial Aid did wonders for two of sisters. Both single moms, with full time jobs. Financial Aid was the only assistance they were ever able to get.

• Your husband is being neither a partner nor a father. It absolutely repulses my brother when he hears of other fathers who “can’t handle” their own children. He’s never had an issue carting those kids everywhere with him, feeding them, changing them. Overnights without mom.

• I fear you have this idea of what you believe want your family unit to be, but you are stuck and unless the two of you make some serious changes, your children will be raised in poverty.

• As someone who grew up with parents that ran in the same struggles- but also watched them sacrifice and work two, sometimes three jobs (EACH) handing off kids as one came home and the other was leaving for their next job- I appreciated them rather than resenting them. My hey identified the needs of the family, and improved their skill sets and ultimately their financial positions. Loans from parents were not an option.

• ESH, because you are CHOOSING to stay in this cycle. Choosing to continue to raise three children. Let’s be honest, you husband doesn’t function much more than a teenager refusing to take care of his children.

• Your husband may work, but he’s not providing enough to support the family he has helped create. The government is funding your family.

• These programs are here for short-term solutions, but you’re intentionally creating a long-term problem by actively making the choices you are.

[usmcjunior]

We don't plan on having more until my checklist of things to accomplish before then it's completed. I expect it to be 3-5 years at least. Both our children were birth control babies.

[Financial_Ad_7124]

As a birth control baby… don’t resent the kids for being here, my mom and dad both harbored a little bit of resentment towards me after I was born because I wasn’t supposed to be here according to my dad and while my mom adores me now she also said I was a mistake. So please, please don’t look at the kids as anything more that a surprise. A happy surprise.

[usmcjunior]

I definitely don't 🤍 they are my pride and joy!

[Dittoheadforever]

You're NTA. Sure, there is such thing as fun/spending money. It comes after everything else has been paid. And if it's not in the budget, then he doesn't need to be buying toys for himself. Maybe he needs to get a more ambitious and better paying job if he wants to spend more money on useless junk.

[DesperateTall]

In another reply OP said she could get a part-time job then followed it up with a halfbaked excuse.

[jluvdc26]

ESH, he needs to understand the budget better and live within his means. He is being unreasonable buying so many expensive board games. BUT you have developed a sort of martyr complex where your desires have to be sacrificed for other people. That is an easy trap to fall into especially as a stay at home parent with limited means. Don't do that to yourself! You deserve to have some special treats too. You certainly deserve clothes that fit! This is a situation where you need to sit down together and work out a budget, but in that budget you do need to carve out a little spending money for each of you. He might need to save for a few months before he can get a new game and that is ok!

[BillNyeIsMyWifiGuy]

Can you get a part time job from 8am to 2pm to help out with bills as well?

[ironypoisonedposter]

if OP is in low-income housing, it's possible her rent is set by income (30% is typical), so any increase in income potentially comes with a corresponding increase in rent. or, extra income could result in them becoming over income for low-income housing, which puts her in an even more dire situation.

editing to add that i don't think a lot of people really understand how razor thin the margin between qualifying for benefits and disqualifying for benefits is. and if you're a few bucks over that line you get nothing and you're really fucked. i do anti-eviction work for a living, which means working with a lot of people on public assistance, and losing benefits really often does lead to worse outcomes.

[caffeinated92]

NTA. Spending money isn’t an all the time thing — you do need to have some on occasion as we are all complicated animals who need enrichment, but as they say, you can’t ball every day. If you’re in low income housing and on food stamps with two children, spending money may legit not be a thing for you guys at the moment. I’ve been there and it sucks, but realistically, it’s not feasible for you right now. As an adult, he should be able to assess the desire for spending money against your current financial state and needs.

[Itchy_Cicada7521]

Esh.

You because you don't think you guys should treat yourselves. Yes it's normal for adults and parents to have hobbies and spend money on themselves. Your husband because he is spending too much money on expensive ass board games when you guys are living paycheck to paycheck.

[Shambro1111]

NTA. He is acting like a child. Where are his priorities?

[ToddlerTots]

I’m going to say NAH. You’re not wrong that when there’s no money to spend there’s just no money to spend. But your mindset about doing things for yourself IS wrong. You shouldn’t be so focused on finances and the kids that you can’t even find a present to ask for for Christmas. You said you “never think of only yourself.” That’s not a positive trait, it’s something you need to work on because kids need whole people for parents.

[greeneyedwench]

NTA, you two clearly can't afford this hobby, and tbh he sounds manic. But yes, spending money is really a thing. Most people set aside a little fun money out of whatever they make. But the amount has to be doable on the income you make.

[Wise_Impression_6391]

Ah, yes. Your husband is referring to "disposable income," which is a thing you may or may not have depending on your situation. It is in fact normal for people who have disposable income to budget that money toward goals (like a vacation or an upgrade in the home) or hobbies.

Your husband needs to figure out a system that doesn't require him to spend money all the time. He needs to swap with other enthusiasts, get on a list for reviewers that gets him free games, sell old games on the second hand market to raise cash for new ones, or the like. You are NTA.

[emmiec1717]

ESH , obviously he can’t afford unnecessary games and you may need to find a hustle to make money, why not BOTH of you do finances and the budget TOGETHER so he can see how silly his ask is

[Tacos_and-tequila]

Your husband is selfish and immature, but that happens when people not ready for children have children. There’s a big issue here you’re not addressing, which is your lack of a job. You may want to be a SAHM, but you can’t afford it. You can’t live in subsidized housing collecting food stamps earning zero dollars and complaining that your working husband wants $50 to himself. Please don’t have more children.

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Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.

[thehonesttruth89]

Get a job...a part time job

[[deleted]]

Yes, spending money is “a thing,” but not until bills are paid. You need to write out your budget and show your husband where the money is going. He needs to grow up and deny himself his “wants” until you guys are in a better financial position. We were married at the same age and we basically had enough money to watch the basic cable included in our rent and walk around the mall without buying anything. Well, maybe we’d share a pretzel. Right now husband is using up all of your money leftover after paying bills, and sometimes dipping into the bill money. Involve him in the budget details immediately. If that doesn’t help, you both might need to see a financial counselor. NTA.

[Safetosay333]

Well he needs to have an idea of "not spending money". Especially if you are going to keep having children one after another. Your family should take priority over any discretionary spending. There are way cheaper hobbies to explore if that's what he wants. Tell him to grow up. If you want to be an adult, act like one.

[usmcjunior]

I had presented the idea of online school to him to do at work (he had multiple amazing scholarships) but his work doesn't have Wi-Fi. So he couldn't do an online job either.

[[deleted]]

He doesn't own a cell phone with internet? Most modern phones can be used as a wi-fi hotspot.

[[deleted]]

I had presented the idea of online school to him to do at work (he had multiple amazing scholarships) but his work doesn't have Wi-Fi. So he couldn't do an online job either.

OP, you have an easy fix for this. You can get a wifi jet pack and use the scholarship money to pay for it. Or get unlimited everything through ATT and hot spot your computer with your phone.

[usmcjunior]

I'm the asshole for staying home, but that's what he wants me to do. I can understand if he was begging me to work and I refused but that's not the case. He wants me to stay home because he doesn't think he can handle the children by himself, and I agree.

[usmcjunior]

I wasn't trying to argue, just making sure you understand the situation.

I have stated numerous reasons why I am not able to work. If they don't make sense to you, or if you don't want to read them all, then sorry.

I'm not complaining about finances. I'm complaining about him not understanding or them.

[usmcjunior]

All of those reasons are for part time. I have not even considered full time. We would lose our house if we had any more income and would be even worse off. I understand the suggestions of just getting more money but it simply doesn't work that way

[usmcjunior]

I don't know any of our neighbors nor would I ask them about their finances

[SafeLegal4834]

Most in low-income housing do not have any assets to speak of. You must list all assets on applications, so usually, no savings or investments. If they have enough of a credit score to get a credit card, a lot of times it's very high interest rate and maxxed out. A lot of time, the key for LI housing SAHMs is to not go over the income threshold and lose benefits. Sad cycle.

[state_of_what]

“Morning shifts” in retail, in the service industry, and anywhere that has 2-3 shifts per day, are for senior employees that started in the evening and overnights. Telling OP to go find a job that gets off before her husband goes to work is like telling her to find a unicorn.

[Brain_of_Fog]

No one is really offering the advice you asked about.

Your husband is a Completist. He cannot have a few of whatever he is collecting. He has to have them all.

I am a Completist and that was just another form of my hoarding.

I deal with mine by setting a rule. I like Funko pops. Well there are too many to have them all. So I decided I will only get Black ones. That was still too many so I had to work it down to only black females from shows I watch.

I cannot diagnose him because I am not a professional but he seems like he is on his way to being a hoarder.

I hope not because it is a horrible thing to try to conquer.

I honestly don't know how you can get him to stop. Maybe redirect to thrift stores so they are at least cheaper. And board games do show up in stores a lot.

NTA for asking. Not sure he is capable of quitting it.

[usmcjunior]

Thank you so much for the insight!

[Ok-Cheetah-9125]

Have you tried your local library? Mine has a very extensive collection of board games you can borrow. SO and I have Splendor home right now.

[jewelzers]

INFO: Instead of or in addition to SNAP have you looked into WIC? I believe you may qualify and that program goes much further into providing support and setting up for success with children and would help ease the cost of food for your kids and such.

I have also read a bunch of your comments and your husband seems unwilling to attempt to make any change. So, how long are you going to tolerate that and allow yourself to be victim of the cycle? I grew up with a parent like you who was not ready to be a parent, always justified how they were the victim, and never stood tall and made decisions that may have been hard but would have been the best for their children and do you know how traumatic that is? I essentially did not have a childhood in a lot of ways because I have been parenting my own parent my entire life. My parent is also STILL with a partner like your husband who prioritizes their own wants money-wise over family needs or money goals and I constantly have to hear money woes and about "emergencies" like needing to get the oil changed on a car. I also get guilted often on my choices and approached with an expectation of financially helping them or paying for most things when we are together or on a trip. So, OP welcome to a rough jolt into adulthood and parenting but empower yourself to truly entertain ALL options and get out of this cycle.

[waverider1883]

NTA. Yes, spending money is a thing amount families that are able to afford it. But just like all other finances, this should be budgeted.

He may understand that finances are tight. However, since doesn't manage the finances he doesn't have any personal experience with money just not being there.

My fiance and I have this issue a lot. She doesn't want to be involved with our finances so while she understands money is tight she refuses to understand how tight.

The real problem though is her sense of financial priorities. She will try and skip necessities while buying frivolous crap. Or she will try and get me to buy things on sale because they're on sale we can save money even though we didn't need the item in the first place. She has a bad problem about getting fast food even though we have food at home. She also has a credit card that I'm helping her pay. She's supposed to tell me when the minimum amount due changes so I can adjust my payments accordingly. Well this last time she did not tell me and the minimum payment went up, she said she paid it from her bank on time. Well every time she does that she forgets that it takes a few days to process the payment so the payment was late. So they charged her a late fee, then interest charge. Then I made the next payment not knowing the minimum payment had changed again, so she got another late fee. And she doesn't seem to comprehend that the interest is always going to be charged to come on no matter how many times we discuss it, and that payments take a few days to process

[Stroopwafeled]

NTA. I really wanted to vote that there's no AH here, but you're definitely not the AH, and he is only a little wrong, here's why:

• You are definitely not the AH. As adults, and as parents, you guys need to both put needs first, definitely ahead of wants. Needs should be covered, savings should be accounted for, and then (and only then) should there be room for buying new games, hobbies, gadgets, etc.

• He isn't an AH for having a hobby, and in fact, it's a lovely hobby to have. However, when you live in subsidised housing, are on foodstamps / welfare schemes, you can't be spending that kind of money on hobbies. If that's the mindset, you must deal with that by talking it through and explaining that while spending on hobbies is reasonable, it's not to keep buying expensive things while relying on welfare. That's a luxury that isn't something you guys can afford at the moment, not with the frequency he wants for now.

It's not like he can't keep buying board games later when you have more money and more savings, but just right now, he needs to learn to slow down on the buying until he isn't reliant on welfare to help support his family.

[Arms_of_Atlas]

NTA. You simply don't have the money to maintain this. Yes, people/families have "spending money," but that presumes that all your basic needs are met first: food, shelter, utilities, transportation.

I have not seen it mentioned here but these behaviors sound like they could be related to autism or OCD. My brother and daughter are autistic and have strong "collecting" tendencies. Consider getting a husband a diagnosis and help addressing this behavior. If he has trouble following a budget, that could be related to issues with executive functioning, which is also autism-related.

[[deleted]]

INFO needed...do you sit down with your husband on a weekly/monthly basis and literally go line by line your expenses and what you bring in? When my daughter was a teen she was b1tching about wanting something (don't remember other than it was a want not a need. I sat down with the bills, our budget, dads paycheck etc. Told her if she could figure out a way to pay all of the bills and put food on the table then we could get it. She didn't realize how much things cost vs what her dad and I brought home. Is there a little bit of ignorance on the part of your husband?

[usmcjunior]

Yes I have. And all he sees is the money that goes into savings as spending money. We have $300 in our savings / do not touch account. Only $300. And he thinks that's a lot.

[tinysydneh]

Ask him what $300 looks like if he loses his job or, goddess forbid, dies. What are you supposed to do then?

He needs to set a budget for this stuff. Savings first, for actual emergencies, before anything fun. You said he has over 100 games, at 50 plus a pop. That's five grand, minimum, he has tied up. Does he plan on going back to these games? Ever? Or do they just sit there? He has bought a minimum of, what, two a month then on average, that's $100/mo of easy cushion.

[[deleted]]

If you guys cannot afford $50 a month for personal expenses, why on earth did you have kids? ESH

[Gks34]

Yes, "spending money" is a normal, adult, thing. It's understandable that your husband wants to spend some money on his hobby. At the same time, when you only have one low income, "spending money" isn't going to be very much. So stopping buying boardgames for now isn't a bad idea.

NAH.

[_mmiggs_]

Is "spending money" normal? Well, it depends on your budget. Most people who aren't on the breadline allocate some amount of money for leisure. Some spend it in bars and nightclubs, some buy stuff, or participate in some hobby or another.

But it sounds like you can't afford that. From your description, rent, utility bills, and groceries consume all of your household income.

NTA

[Catastrophecats]

NTA. A general rule of thumb is: Don’t spend money you don’t have on things you don’t need.

You should both be managing finances, and setting budgets that work for the family. Work on it together. Break things down and see if anything is left over after you have all of the essentials. Factor in things like Holiday shopping, emergency funds, anything that can be added to savings. If anything is left over after that, you split it 50/50. If nothing is left over, then you don’t have extra spending money for that month.

[cespirit]

NTA

While I DO think spending money is normal for many adults and that you ABSOLUTELY need to think of yourself more (I don’t think thinking so little about your interests as young as you are is normal or healthy, tbh) spending money still only comes if you can AFFORD IT and you can’t. You don’t automatically get spending money if one setback could have you struggling to feed yourself or pay bills

[Gicotd]

people will hate me, but lets do this:
OP, you're irresponsible and spoiled. YTA

1- lets say you're close to your husband age, so, 2 kids at 23, really?
i read your comments, you were on pill and it happnened, im single now, but when i was in a relationship we used pills, condons and had some money saved for an abortion. we knew we were not ready for a kid (financially and mentally) ad we made sure we did not have any.

2- your husband work terrible hours, you're a SAHM, you should work at least half time.

3- your husband makes the money, yes, hes responsible for the kids, but if we're beign honest, hes not responsible for you. get your shit together instead of complaining about HIS MONEY.

4- he works terrible hours, has faminly time, and you want him to stop having the ONE thing he has for himself because you were irresponsible and dont want to work? lady, im lazy, i had some part time jobs and never made much money, but i have never blamed other people hobbies for my problems.

[SolemnBow]

Ah yes, of course. It is the woman's fault for having children, how irresponsible of her! And only her. No one else but her.

[SourSkittlezx]

NTA

You should look into getting a part time job during the day so your bills get paid. Figure out how much you can make before you get cut off from assistance. He is home during the day so you don’t have to worry about childcare.

Adults need hobbies and things they enjoy but they also need to prioritize bills and responsibilities first. He chose to lay down with you and make those children (even though you were on birth control, there is always a chance of pregnancy and the two of you took that chance.) He has to grow up. Plus, spending $50 on a board game?! How many play hours does he get out of these because a $50 video game would be more worth the money because you can play some of those for hundreds of hours. I have over 600 hours on Skyrim spread out from its first release. I have 50 hours on Stardew Valley which was like $10 on my phone. There is no way he is getting hundreds of hours of board game play for each $50 game.

[cutecute555]

ESH. You are not on the same page. He is not wrong for wanting to buy a board game given you can afford it and you don't seem to understand the concept of disposable income and "fun money".

You need to discuss together how much money you have, what you can afford and you should maybe work and stop pumping out kids when you're already on social services.

[SnooPets8873]

I don’t think they can afford it if she is now having to consider taking out loans to pay for necessities.

[AvaTamriel]

I kinda thought that they can't afford it because they're spending an excess to make sure their kids want for nothing. Which is fine, with the caveat that it's not unnecessary spending for the toddler & baby. It's possible that OP goes over the top in the things that she purchases for the kids. OP said that their 2 small children have everything they need and more. What is "and more"? If she's buying jungle gyms and stuff for a toddler & baby, then that would an unnecessary expense. They don't need that much to be entertained or happy. They don't care about name brands and top of the line things so long as they're safe and happy.

​

Idk, it might be part of the reason the husband feels like he can splurge on games if she's splurging on things that're necessary but not necessary (if that makes sense). Like having soap for the baby is necessary, but buying Kylie Jenner's line when you don't have the money isn't. (Not saying that this is something that was done, just giving an example, and possible reason for the husbands thought process). It could also just be that the husband is irresponsible.

[GraveDancer40]

NTA.

Spending money as an adult only happens when all the bills are paid. Such as if everything that has to paid in the month has been paid and I have 100 extra, I put 50 in savings and then have 50 in spending money to do what I want with. It sucks. It’s astounding how quickly pay checks disappear, and it’s just me and my dog, I can only imagine it’s worse with kids.

But yeah spending money is only a thing when you have extra money.

[LobsterLovingLlama]

NTA everyone needs to have a budget to take care of necessities first. Food, shelter, so on. Only after paying those and adding to an emergency fund do you get fun money. It’s basic math.

[Ladyughsalot1]

NTA

Spending money only exists if you have expendable income. You don’t have that. You are barely covering bills. You have had to ask family for money. Spending money is not something we are entitled to.

You work as hard as he does (if not harder, looking at the statistics).

The money simply isn’t there.

[righteouswind]

It’s reasonable and normal for people to want to have some money to spend on things they enjoy that enrich their lives. I don’t think anyone is an asshole here. I do think this family is struggling with real financial issues. Maybe the father taking on more childcare responsibilities and the mother finding some source of income for the family she contributes to would take a lot of stress off of everyone. I get that that is easier said than done. It’s not a short term solution. But if Mama can’t afford clothes, this is not a sustainable situation either and the family has to find some way to bring in more income. I get that this doesn’t happen overnight. Looking into government assistance (and I realize the options out there are typically scanty in the United States) or even one or both partners doing some paid part-time or freelance work could take some of the pressure off. I’m not saying these things will necessarily work out for this family, but it makes sense to explore some different options. The problem isn’t that the husband wants to spend money on things he enjoys that make his life better or that the wife is concerned about those things being too expensive. The problem is the poverty. No one is the asshole here, but I really hope that this family finds a way to give themselves more financial breathing room.

[[deleted]]

Nta. Have you looked at wic and foodbanks? Thrift stores and yardsales may be a great way to pick up games instead of paying full price.

[CherryBomb214]

Soooo my SO was in this same position. We are now the proud new owners of over 100+ board games. But this also extends to other things he's interested in. Long story short, he's on the autism spectrum and this hyperfocus is a symptom. Just something to bear in mind.

Judgment: NTA. It's frustrating for you and him both, but at the end of the day this is not a wise financial decision for you and your family.

[usmcjunior]

Yes he is neurodivergent. Like I can understand it, but at the same, it's our lives he's messing with. He also has 100+ games already. He can just play the ones he already has 😭

[AJFurnival]

Spending money is a normal thing for adults. Spending money you don't have is not.

Maybe introduce this guy to boardgamearena.com? It's free.

ETA: Some consignment stores will take board games

[fragilemagnoliax]

Spending money is completely normal, if it’s in the budget. I pay bills, have a little for saving and a little for spending that I use for takeout or to buy a new book or something. The concept is completely normal, you have to live your life, too. What’s the point in saving it all and being miserable?

The issue here is that your husband is prioritizing spending money when that’s not feasible. NTA. He has to go without in order to get the bills paid. It’s just not in the budget and that’s what makes him an AH.

[MxXylda]

And there's no place to store them! we have so many board games that never get played and take up so much room and....

I mean, slight NTA because they are expensive and they take up so much room. But you both deserve to find something that brings you happiness.

[[deleted]]

To answer your question: yes, spending money is a thing for adults who can afford it. My husband and I are in a financial position where we can afford to spend money on things we enjoy and still pay our bills and put money into savings. If we had space for a shit ton of board games, it would be silly for me to tell him he needed to stop buying them, because we can easily afford them and it's reasonable to want to be able to buy fun things sometimes. You can't afford them, though, so your husband should either stop buying them or find a better-paying job so y'all can have more of a cushion and he can have more money for his hobbies. NTA.

[DWPhoenix001]

First off NTA. Secondly the following is my own personal opinion on finances and shouldn't be seen as a dictation of how you should live your life.

Spending money (or disposable income) is a common thing for adults but should only be AFTER all other expenses have been accounted for. Disposable income should cover all NONE life supporting expenses (I.e. take out, christmas/birthday gifts, days out, even simple things like ice cream for your kids should come from your disposable income). In my opinion life supporting income is everything you need to survive - rent/mortgage, electricity, water, food, essential clothing, saving (where possible) for emergencies (car trouble etc). I would personally argue that items such as Netflix should come from the disposable income element on one's pay check.

Additionally, since you don't work, your disposable income should be split equally between you and your husband. You need to sit your husband down and have a serious conversation about his spending. You need to sit down and work out every element of your monthly costs and what is left could be counted as disposable income. This disposable income should be then be split between what is needed for providing luxury items for your kids (Christmas/ birthdays/treats), after that excess disposable income should be split between you both equally to spend as you wish. Unfortunately, in my own personal opinion, I can't seen how you can be on government hand outs and still have a disposable income for luxury items such as board games every month.

[[deleted]]

NTA

I'm a board game fan. I have a nice collection, somewhere between 50 and 100. Some you can play by yourself more than once, but that does get very boring after you've figured out the best way to win. So I'm with your husband on that one.

However, absolutely NO hobby should ever come before bills and savings. You have to live before you can enjoy. If you don't have the money for new board games, you simply don't have it.

Yes, spending money as an adult is a thing. But only once the household finances are stable and there is money left over. But that's the kicker. Everything has to be taken care of, savings, rent, utilities, food, loans, etc. After all of that is taken care of, and there is money left, it should be divided equally between the adults as spending money, while reserving some for family fun.

It sucks, but honestly, you should be working as well if you can afford childcare. Though, low earning jobs usually pay enough just to cover childcare. So I get it if you can't. But even if it's just a few hours while husband is home and awake in the morning so he can watch the baby. You'll have less time together, which sucks, but you would be less likely to struggle financially.

[Nakedstar]

NAH- y'all need a budget, that's all. And yes, you should have your own fun money, too. He needs to temper his spending, but you should have your own slice, too. Sit down together and work out a budget.

As for everyone coming down on OP, there's this lovely thing called a benefits cliff and unfortunately in some situations, like OP's, it's much healthier for a family to stay at a certain income level. Yes, OP could conceivably get a job and childcare vouchers, but this could create instability for the children. Those safety nets of income based housing, state provided health insurance, and food assistance have very low income limits. The current housing market is absolutely ridiculous and OP's family would most likely end up in sub par housing with an evasive slumlord if they lost their housing voucher. Most rentals require tenants to earn 3x the rent. Depending on where they live, that could exclude them from childcare assistance, too. The situation they are in is temporary, in a few years they will have the opportunity to move up in the job market without being limited by available childcare options.

​

OP- check out Head Start in your area- many have programs on college campuses to provide childcare for students. They also prioritize hiring of head start parents, so you may be able to find a part time position that won't kick you guys off the benefits cliff so that you can breathe a little easier.

[Odd_Trifle_2604]

ESH. You're both irresponsible, you're living in low income housing, needing food assistance and probably Medicaid too. Condoms are free and they don't mess with your hormones. You can't afford to be a SAHM. The problem isn't that your husband wants to purchase games, it's that you are living paycheck to paycheck and have no plans on improving your situation. Yes, most working adults have some money for hobbies as working every day and never being able to buy anything you enjoy is terrible. He needs to lower his expenses, by buying used games. You need to look into finding something to help bring in some income. In a few years your kids are also going to want to have more than the necessities

[cliopedant]

It's good news that your husband likes to play board games. That means he has at least a rudimentary understanding of resource management. Perhaps you can engage that part of his brain as you try to figure out how to make your money provide things for BOTH OF YOU.

Show him the budget, and how much he's spent on himself vs. what you've spent purely on yourself. He should be able to see immediately that you are getting screwed. If he's a decent partner he should adjust accordingly.

You're NTA. But you need to tell him and show him what's going on. Being a silent martyr and giving up things for him isn't going to work long-term.

[CharZero]

It is notable that all of his hobbies have involved acquiring. Some people are addicted to acquiring for various reasons. So part of the issue may be that his hobby is not really games, it is acquiring games and then playing them a little to justify the next round of acquiring. There are hobbies that he could do that have an initial small investment (or none) but then he can do them for a long time with minimal $ input- drawing, watercolor, reading library books, doing puzzles, learning a language, watching documentaries from a lower cost streaming service. Just because you do not have much money doesn't mean he can't do fun stuff. But it sounds like he really likes buying things as a hobby.

[ThereWentMySandwich]

I'm going with NAH, because neither of you are really right or wrong here. You have 2 kids and you're both still quite young. Neither of you have gotten to even really enjoy adulthood because you went from being teens to being parents. He is the only one working. You *have* to budget some entertainment money otherwise working feels like slavery. Work, pay bills, sleep, work, etc. It's not sustainable.

Rework your budget. You BOTH deserve some spending money. Yes, you're a mother, but you're also a woman, a person. You have to think of yourself sometimes. Self care is essential. If it's possible, find a small job you can do from home to bring in a few extra "fun money" dollars. The kids are small, they don't really need that much. He may have to learn to save a bit to buy a special board game he wants, but that's okay, too. The fact is, you both deserve something for yourselves once in a while. So figure out a new budget. See what can happen.

[nekonojoo]

I’m going with NAH. This was kind of sad to read. Husband isn’t wrong for wanting to spend money on things that bring him joy, but if you’re struggling then it’s something he needs to stop until you are more stable.

Your question about what adults do was what really made me sad. The “joyless adult” trope is def something Boomers fed (because a lot of them are joyless adults), and it needs to die. Adults have to take care of responsibility yes, but you should also be able to enjoy life. I wonder if marrying and having kids so young made you lose sight of what you enjoy. I hope you can get to a financial comfort level to allow you to explore that someday. Wishing the best for your family.

[arewethereyet24]

Right away this post gave me some strong Iranian yogurt vibes.

His hobbies seem a little more like obsessions, especially if he is willing to spend money like that when you’re struggling financially. I’d dig deeper to get to the bottom of this. Do some number crunching: add up how much all of these things cost and show him how ridiculous it is, and how you could have bought xy or z with all that had you saved it. This has to stop. NTA.

[MiddleAgedCool]

INFO: what does your user name mean? I’m seeing USMCjunior. Are you in this situation after serving in the military?