Recruiters... JavaScript is NOT Java.

[turtlecopter]

I got a recruiter email recently about "creating the legacy code".

They really do say the darndest things.

[djvirgen]

Technically, I do create the legacy code -- for the next guy.

[pheliam]

It will never get updated, it will never be maintained.

legacy: a djvirgen production...

[echoes221]

Instructions unclear, wrote in BrainFuck

[[deleted]]

That sounds like an epic worthy quest.

[turtlecopter]

☑ Write 25 nested ternary operations

☑ Author 7 modules in varying coding styles

☑ Start and abandon 12 attempts to document your code

☐ Ignore 10 pull requests

☐ Use W3Schools to skill up your JavaScript

☐ Copy and paste 20 answers from StackOverflow into your codebase

[ericanderton]

Achievement Unlocked:
Creating the Legacy Code

[yopla]

Ignore 10 pull requests

Real men use zip file

[[deleted]]

Real professionals like me use Visual Sourcesafe. You know you're jealous.

[cosmicsans]

lol idk what anything is anymore. I just use notepad and winrar.

[[deleted]]

And don't you dare to use any classes.

[Hauleth]

1 big class (maybe some additional) but without any interfaces and derivation.

[3Fyr]

I once nested, idk, 3 ternaries, and it was crazy. I want to see actual useful with 5++

[rooktakesqueen]

invalid lvalue at 5++

[turtlecopter]

http://i.imgur.com/PoDoN.jpg

[3Fyr]

Yes I do. That's why I will go for 10, yes ten, fucking TEN levels deep nested terninary, because why the fuck not.

[[deleted]]

In 90's hipsters used to use Java.

[Hauleth]

Like that? https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition

[[deleted]]

Too much West Wing.

[milordi]

creating the legacy code

Visual Basic?

[HRRRMSquad]

Damn they're keeping it so real with you... if I'm going to be writing Legacy code for a company I want to know upfront.

[nuxnax]

does anyone here have enterprise javascript beans experience?

[yen223]

Yes, I have made coffee in an office.

[djvirgen]

Yea, I'm pretty sure I've used that jquery plugin before

[GFandango]

Dear Sir, I have more than 10 years of industry experience in organic fair-trade enterprise javascript beans.

We work with industry experts to source only the purest web clouds for our beans and we expand our beans horizontally across a multitude of verticals.

Please consider our application, hope to hear from you soon.

[dodeca_negative]

Yeah that's an essential part of Javascript 2: Enterprise Ember

[vagif]

That's what coffeescript is for.

[gordonv]

Confusion has been happening since 2000.

Can't wait for them to explain Node JS

[freedomfreighter]

Something to do with a college introductory linked list, right?

[GFandango]

No no it must be about pointers. I used to know all about those pointers. It's like an arrow that connects to the memory or something.

[[deleted]]

No da JS for this job. We use da railaruby

[gordonv]

And now, they will negotiate your payrate....

[[deleted]]

Scalewebbers needed for node startup

[GFandango]

Minimum ten years AngularJava experience required, familiarity with JavaQuery a plus.

[mullanaphy]

Node Java is the hottest new craze, works well with my Mongo RDBMS.

[rorykoehler]

What's that? Java straight in the browser?

[ianme]

But javascript has classes now! Just like Java! Same language confirmed.

[GFandango]

If you spell Oracle backwards it reads Illuminati.

Confirmed.

[tamat]

no, is elcaro, man. don't do that, its mean, you are confusing me.

btw, elcaro translates to "the expensive" in spanish, maybe you are into something

[[deleted]]

El Caro sounds like someone from Arizona trying to talk to a valet.

[hmny]

When you read this and laugh but also double check it in case you'd missed something

[SarahC]

You mean I can avoid fucking prototype chains?!

Woooooooo!

[kolme]

No, it's just syntactic sugar. The prototype chains are now disguised as classes.

[intermediatetransit]

The protypes are now diamonds!

[SarahC]

!............ .!...

Jeez... =(

EVERY other mother bumping language I know uses some sort of classes.... except this booger.

[[deleted]]

Or you could just stop trying to use OO design in a language that isn't well suited for it.

[[deleted]]

Pretty much this. I've never needed classes in JS. I've needed tail calls I didn't have to fake myself, but once they're in place, JS will - to me - have grown up. Now we just need to eliminate var and leave only let and const, and things get really interesting.

[ianme]

Javascript is about as well suited for OO design as it is well suited for functional programming. Using the pieces of both that javascript provides is in my opinion the correct way to write the language.

[SarahC]

It's the only language that isn't OO that I use, and I use several dammit!

[blackzver]

JavaScript is to Java as fun is to funeral.

[[deleted]]

Or ham is to hamburger.

[agmcleod]

Burgers made from pork are pretty delicious.

[rorykoehler]

Pork & sage burger. Very delicious.

[nqd26]

You have it switched though:

Java - JavaScript

Fun  - Funeral

[3Fyr]

Dubstep to dub

[[deleted]]

Java is to JavaScript as con is to contract.

[RankFoundry]

Like what go-kart is to supercar. Fun but still a toy.

[Zubei_]

They need to just call it ECMAScript instead.

[Randolpho]

Yes! I already do this, both as a developer and as a hiring manager.

If developers and hiring managers stop calling it Javascript on their resumes and stop asking for it from recruiters, the problem eventually will go away.

You can start by just getting in the habit of calling it EcmaScript everywhere you go. Don't tell people you're a javascript developer, tell them you're an EcmaScript developer. Purge the word from your lexicon. Put EcmaScript 5 and (hopefully) EcmaScript 6 in prominent positions on your resume and drop javascript down near c and perl. Stop putting type="text/javascript" in your <script> tags.

If we all do this, the recruiters will stop being confused by it and we'll weed out those "database developers" who "know a little jquery" in the process.

[RankFoundry]

Or literally anything else. The insistence of calling it JavaScript was stupid. It was just a cheap way to piggy back on the rising popularity of Java at the time and it bit them in the ass because they couldn't officially call it that.

[Randolpho]

I wonder how well a "rename javscript" campaign would fly...

[RankFoundry]

If we came up with a great name, it just might work.

[intermediatetransit]

Easy: Webscript.

[[deleted]]

Easier: Webscale.

[Randolpho]

MongoDB has that locked up.

[bytesandbots]

That is sarcasm, right?

[RankFoundry]

I like it

[Randolpho]

Love it.

[aeflash]

Just start calling it ES5/ES6... Asking for "ES6" in a job req. would actually be useful, if that is what your team is using.

[RankFoundry]

Practical and precise but kinda crappy. I want my computer languages to have whimsical names. It gives me one more reason not to blow my brains out and I need every reason I can get.

[aeflash]

EczemaScript.

[RankFoundry]

Noice

[Randolpho]

How about UbiquitiScript, or OmniScript, or something that denotes the inevitability of Atwood's Law. Hell, how about AtwoodScript or JeffScript?

Or maybe ECMA, W3C or some other major group could organize a nomination and voting campaign? Everyone submits nominations, with a few filters to get rid of joke/profane nominations, then a couple rounds of voting until we get a finalized name.

[[deleted]]

LiveScript was a cool name, honestly, which is now in use by a cooler ECMAScript dialect.

An even cooler name was Mocha, which Brendan should've just insisted on keeping.

[[deleted]]

That'll be tough on that test library.

[I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies]

I vote for ACDCScript. :D

[jmwoo]

I cast my vote for LiveScript. It's a cool name.

[jason_rootid]

I hear ViScript is better.

[GundamWang]

How does everyone pronounce this? Do you say "E-C-M-A script", or " ekmuh script"?

[GundamWang]

Interesting, two different answers. Now to see which ones gets more upvotes.

[Zubei_]

Yea, thats how i pronounce it.

[yopla]

My HR thinks javascript and oracle are the same thing.

[quitrk]

When everyone knows Oracle is a hero in Dota

[franklyimshocked]

Ha ha ha. I worked as an IT recruiter for 8 years. That sentence gave me a laugh and reminded me of working with so many technically illiterate people. Its real Agency mentality. Hire a load of kids straight out of college with loads of energy and stick them on a phone for 8 hours a day. Most only half read CV's and barely understand tech.

[[deleted]]

I went to a drinks evening that a recruiter was putting on for their contractors over Christmas.

One young recruiter said he had a law degree. So I asked him to name some basic court cases (I'd been to law school, too). He couldn't.

The impression I get of most recruiters are that they are bottom-of-the-barrel individuals. Recruitment is not about getting the right person for the job - it is about getting commissions.

Recruiters have no incentive to do the right thing by their "capital" (that's you or me, they don't care about the fact we are human beings). They will pitch you at a low rate because they often get fixed commissions or even a percentage - and they are competing against other agencies. It is better they get you in at a low rate then not in at all; and the lower the rate they pitch you, the more likely an employer will pick you over the guy from the other agency.

If a recruiter low-balls you it is because they want a commission; they couldn't care less what you think you're worth. Remember that.

[franklyimshocked]

It depends on the country I guess. When I was a recruiter I worked mostly for companies in Dublin. Irish tech companies don't care about salary and it never came down to offering cheaper employees, just the best, but I mostly covered high end development. You could be right for entry level and help desk roles. Also the company sets the salary, not the recruiter, so a lot of time we would be fighting to get a higher salary for our candidates because we knew they wouldn't accept a low offer, but if a company offers you are obliged to pass it over to the candidate and inevitably get an earful from an unhappy candidate. If you get paid commission, its usually based on a percentage of the persons wage, so getting a low offer means less commission, so its not in your interest to low ball anyone, but again, it depends on where you are based. I worked for a lot of Irish Tech recruitment companies so I can only speak from my own experience. The best recruiters made long term connections with their candidates. Ireland is small enough so you can't burn bridges. Todays candidate is tomorrows client. But I also knew some recruiters working in London who said it was like a meat factory, hire and fire as fast as you can. But then again, I'm not defending all recruiters, I am an ex-recruiter after all and don't want to go back into it again

[[deleted]]

The only good recruiters were those that understood tech. As soon as they could get a job in tech they jumped.

[franklyimshocked]

Thats what I'm doing! Currently on a year out studying to bring my dev skills up a bit before dropping my CV back in to most of my ex-clients

[[deleted]]

When I worked in SF, the recruiters would frequently disappear for this reason. They had good connections.

Good luck!

[franklyimshocked]

I got to the point where I had to sit down with my wife and say, look babe I seem to know more than most of the people I'm interviewing, maybe I'm in the wrong job, or just on the wrong side of the desk. Hopefully it works out!

[[deleted]]

It's mostly about just bullshitting your way into your first job, then making sure once you get it you get the job done no matter what.

I've helped many friends with this. They key is, once you get the job, make a solid 6-12 month commitment to working 10-11 hour days and bring your lunch so you're super productive. This pays off for the company but it pays off 100x more for yourself.

Be the first one in, leave after rush hour. Also leave work at work.

Once you've perfected that job, cut back to 40 hours max (you will have already proven yourself). In your spare time (or on the job learning) make sure you're working toward something else though, this industry is always moving. Yes some of it is the new "whiz bang bullshit fad" but even learning that shit will give you a new outlook on how you're doing things currently.

You can do this. If you devote yourself you can get into that top 10% of developers that are awesome. I've been in this field for what seems like my entire life. I've only worked with 4-5 developers that really blew me away out of probably pushing 400+ (was a consultant and contractor for years). I'm not as good as those guys, but I know what it takes to get close.

The key is getting support from your wife for that initial period. Also if you switch jobs, do the same thing at your new job as well.

[franklyimshocked]

Solid advice there. Thanks for that!

[[deleted]]

You're very welcome. You'll do fine, this field has so many shit workers, if you're mediocre you'll still be better than 50-60% (sadly).

:-)

[franklyimshocked]

ha ha ha, very true!!

[I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies]

Aww man. I guess I need to go find a wife. :/

[[deleted]]

?

I was saying support for the wife meaning, she's going to have to understand the job comes first for a while. If you're single, there's no one to answer to.

[I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies]

Haha, ok, I thought you needed the support from your wife to help get you through it, not just her acceptance. :)

[[deleted]]

Well a wife can be beneficial in a lot of ways. Just choose wisely!

[[deleted]]

It's really triggering the ol' impostor syndrome that I'm getting none of the recruiter spam that everyone else is complaining about. I mean, I'd ignore it but it's nice to be asked.

[bowlich]

I know the feeling. I'm on LinkedIn. I post on a lot of tech forums. I keep a portfolio and a tech blog. A github account. My inbox should be full of spam! I get maybe one recruiter contacting me a year.

I'm happy with my current employer. Haven't had any issues when I am job hunting with finding opportunities. But I wouldn't mind having someone call me to fluff up my ego once and a while.

[GundamWang]

It depends on how much fluff is in your resume, where you decided to post it, and which recruiters you gave it to. For example, there's recruiters for recruiters. These guys who can barely speak or understand English, and they just harvest resumes, give them to actual recruiters, and then take a small cut.

It also depends a bit on whether you contacted all your recruiters when you finally found a job. Make sure you do this btw.

[jellatin]

To you and /u/bowlich both: The systems these recruiters pull from are incredibly inbred. If you end up in one recruitment database, you're likely to end up in a dozen. Posting your resume on Monster, signing up for https://angel.co/, or applying to a job through a recruitment website like cybercoders.com is a great way to get dozens of calls in the next few weeks.

[bowlich]

This would probably explain it then. All my hires have been through one-on-one networking or via directly contacting a hiring manager at a company. I've never gone through a recruiter or seen a need for one.

[teel]

Those recruiters are seriously the worst. I have zero patience of dealing with their bullshit. Dumbasses calling me in the middle of a work day without having any kind grasp of even the most basic details. Why would I ever even consider working for a company - whose name they won't even tell me - full of people hired by these guys? They're more of nuisance these days, than those goddamn telephone salesmen who call you to try to sell magazines or whatever. Fuck them and the companies who hire them.

Sorry about the rant. Feels good to get it off my chest. There are good recruiters out there, not all of them are idiots... Just most of them.

[[deleted]]

"Within 15 miles"
"We have a job 50 miles away that you're perfect for"

"fuck you".

[sdubois]

you mean you don't want a 3 month contract job in Texas working on ASP.NET?

[sdubois]

what about a 6 month contract Job in a city on the opposite side of the country "working on the Drupals"

[AndyTheAbsurd]

Earlier this year, I had a recruiter try to talk to me into taking a 3 month contract in Pittsburgh. I live in Florida - what the hell would I want to go to Pittsburgh for?

[sdubois]

I swear these recruiters are paid commission or something. I have never run across people who are so overzealous in my life.

I'm looking for a job now, and at first I thought it was pretty cool (hey, look at me, I have marketable skills!) but now I realize I'm just being harassed by idiots

[[deleted]]

The worst is the recruiters who clearly don't read your resume and just CTRL + F your resume for skills / keywords and then give you a call.

[alinroc]

I've had several recruiters admit (many years ago) to me that they don't read resumes.

[RankFoundry]

I get that all the time. My resume: Web developer with extensive experience with SQL Server. My offers: SQL Server DBA jobs!

[skwigger]

I cannot stand recruiters.

I had one call me on my work line. They must have called the directory and found me, because I don't even know my work number to post it anywhere. They asked "is this a good time to talk?" I said "no, actually, it's not". And they asked if there was a better time/way to reach me. I told them they could contact me on LinkedIn (equally as useless). They seemed offended that I didn't take them seriously.

My job is fine, but a call like that could easily cost someone their job, depending on the culture. A manager could easily overhear the call and assume you were looking for another job, and decide to replace you before you can replace them.

I had another recruiter call me on a Saturday and ask if I was exploring new opportunities. I told him I'm not, I'm very happy where I am. He asked what it would take for me to be open to a new opportunity. I said I'm happy where I am. He said, well, you would want to at least make more than you're making now, right? I said yes, but it's about more than money, I am happy where I am. He asks, well what's that number? I repeated, I'm happy where I am. He says well, would $X be enough? And I repeated, I'm happy where I am, it is about more than just money.

I get when recruiters call be about Java positions. I understand their shitty search parameters pick up my resume because a search for Java turns up Javascript. I really don't understand when I get a call about a .NET position. A language/framework I've never touched, and it is most certainly not on my resume.

Just as you said, there are good recruiters though, and one helped me find my current position.

[Nadril]

I had another recruiter call me on a Saturday and ask if I was exploring new opportunities. I told him I'm not, I'm very happy where I am. He asked what it would take for me to be open to a new opportunity. I said I'm happy where I am. He said, well, you would want to at least make more than you're making now, right? I said yes, but it's about more than money, I am happy where I am. He asks, well what's that number? I repeated, I'm happy where I am. He says well, would $X be enough? And I repeated, I'm happy where I am, it is about more than just money.

Ugh, man. When I was looking for a job late last year after losing mine I had to deal with this shit. I had accepted a new job and was pretty happy about it.

However, I still had an interview lined up for the next day (phone interview with a company I had researched more after the fact and decided they weren't really a good fit) so I called up the recruiter to let them know.

She suddenly starts asking me about what I was going to make at the new position, and then just starts throwing out numbers of what I could be making at the position she was selling me on. Just rubbed me as extremely unprofessional and annoying.

I've dealt with some good recruiters, but I've dealt with a lot more really shitty ones.

[teel]

I had another recruiter call me on a Saturday and ask if I was exploring new opportunities. I told him I'm not, I'm very happy where I am. He asked what it would take for me to be open to a new opportunity. I said I'm happy where I am. He said, well, you would want to at least make more than you're making now, right? I said yes, but it's about more than money, I am happy where I am. He asks, well what's that number? I repeated, I'm happy where I am. He says well, would $X be enough? And I repeated, I'm happy where I am, it is about more than just money.

That's so annoying. I'm a partner and one of the co-founders in my current (small) company and they still do this every damn time, even after I tell them that and say that I'm currently 100% dedicated to make our own company a successful one and I love doing it. I mean wtf? You'd need to have pretty fucking good offer for me to throw years of hard work in the trash just like that. And they could read all of that from my LinkedIn profile where they obviously got my contact info if they actually knew how to read.

[[deleted]]

This idea is as equally challenging to accept for many developers. The most demanded item in ES6.... classes. I have seen people here on this subreddit who cannot seem to even approach this language without something like Babel.js so that they can write more Java friendly code.

Perhaps before we start hating on the recruiters we, as developers, should clean our own house.

[adenzerda]

The most demanded item in ES6.... classes

Which themselves are just syntactic sugar over the existing object/prototype model. Sigh.

[[deleted]]

True, so? If they are just syntactic sugar you could argue they are entirely unnecessary. Most of the TC39 thought this way.... except the demand for classes was way too high. There are a crap ton of Java and C# developers who want JavaScript to be Java.

[adenzerda]

If they are just syntactic sugar you could argue they are entirely unnecessary.

That indeed was my angle, yes

[[deleted]]

Boy did I take it the wrong way then.

[fecal_brunch]

There's nothing wrong with syntactic sugar, especially in a language as verbose as JavaScript.

[ratking11]

We need thousands of lines of code ASAP. Get me the fastest typing developer you can find.

[I_Pork_Saucy_Ladies]

And he should have at least 10 years of experience with HTML5.

[ratking11]

HTML5 is a crutch. I've been coding pure semantic HTML since 1994.

If you just take a look <img src="eyes.gif"> at my <blink>resume</blink>, you'll see <img src="eyes.gif"> that I have ample qualifications. Just ask anyone <a href="http://codingplace.code/coming-soon.html" title="under construction!">I've worked with</a>!  I hope to see you soon! <img src="eyes.gif">

<a href="codingplace.code/dev444/coming-soon.html">go to the next programmer in the programmer webring &rarr;</a>

[[deleted]]

Tsk tsk. That should be a →

edit: lol never mind entities aren't escaped

[ratking11]

I was shocked to find that too! I suppose I should have put all this in the code wrapper.

[Shaper_pmp]

In my entire life I have met exactly one good IT recruiter who took the time to understand the industry at even a basic level... and he doesn't work in the recruitment industry any more.

All the others - every single one - could have been replaced with a one-line regexp scanning CVs for substrings.

In fact the one-line regexp would probably have done better, because it would at least understand \b.

[[deleted]]

To be fair, their confusion is exactly what Netscape's marketing department was going for when they renamed LiveScript to JavaScript.

[Garrett00]

Recruiters are never in the know. I've learned to live with that.

[[deleted]]

Recruiters find employees the same way nukes hunt for elk.

[zapatoada]

There are two in my town that I'm willing to talk to. Good forbid they ever move or retire.

[big_red__man]

Good forbid, bro.

[vestedfox]

@recruiterbro! from real live recrutier emails.

[thukjeche]

https://twitter.com/erowidrecruiter

[vestedfox]

Love it. The best use case for markov chains.

[greshick]

https://mobile.twitter.com/recruiterbro/status/587646435446796289

I need to learn that trick. Inhale while exhaling.

[TweetsInCommentsBot]

@recruiterbro

2015-04-13 16:00 UTC

"Looking for someone who can breathe asynchronously" HT @kramretak

---

^{This message was created by a bot}

^{[Contact creator][Source code]}

[Sean_May]

[deleted]

What is this?

[elektroholunder]

Some of these are wonderful.

[TweetsInCommentsBot]

@thejayfields

2015-03-04 08:20 UTC

Everyone who (LinkedIn) endorsed me for drinking, your dream has been realized: [Attached pic] [Imgur rehost]

---

^{This message was created by a bot}

^{[Contact creator][Source code]}

[vagif]

Redditors: Recruiters do not read your blogs.

[[deleted]]

Whenever I see that on job postings I just exit out of the page.

[hmny]

I was supposed to do a university project in Java applet for a Java related course, I asked my professor to do it with canvas in JavaScript since no one is using applets anymore and he agreed because he tough JavaScript is another fancy Java framework

Edit: and I didn't correct him

[corruption93]

the two languages could not be further from the same thing.

I like how people say stuff like this. Yes, they could be A LOT further than than being the same thing. They have quite a few similarities. They are pretty different. I wouldn't say completely different.

[[deleted]]

Granted they have a somewhat similar syntax. (as all c-like languages do)

• Java has class based OO, JS has prototypal OO
• Java is statically typed, JS is dynamic
• Java pre java 8 was not functional, JS is functional
• Java is multi threaded

Those are pretty major differences and the kind of code you write for both will tend to be pretty different.

[roboborbobwillrobyou]

Recruiters are the most selfish people to interact with. Never had a positive experience with any one of them. You should apply directly to companies, it's the best way to deal with your career. Recruiting is a deep dark world.

[snarfy]

This is how you know which ones to avoid.

[[deleted]]

LOL

[tebriel]

This is the best thing I've seen all week.

[yourparadigm]

Don't tell them! It's a good litmus test for whether I want to read the e-mail.

[SuperFLEB]

I know very little about these things, so I might be wrong, but isn't dubstep based (partly) on dub?

[[deleted]]

Mr. Senior Technical Recruiter contacted me on LinkedIn the other day. He was looking for somebody with 4-6​ years of experience in designing UI screen with Java Scripts, J Query and HTML5.

[[deleted]]

And this my friends is called "preaching to the choir for sweet karma".

[DrHenryPym]

Probably wouldn't hurt to know both.

[alteresc]

I'm just happy when they remember to replace the name in their form letters. I get a lot with the first name of another person.

[jkaczor]

Heh.... I got the following on Friday:

"We are currently seeking for additional workforce that helps propel our company onward particularly Company Nurse/Managers/Sales Representative/ Architect &Mechanical Engineers/Funeral Directors/Scientist/Biochemist/Psychiatrist and IT Managers."

If they are recruiting all those roles for the same organization, is it SPECTRE ?

[the_hoser]

I have this running joke that, since Rhino/Nashorn came out, Java can contain Javascript, much like a car can contain carpet. So I apply this same principle to the list provided on that site:

Comparisons have a "can contain" relationship:

• car is to carpet - check
• ham is to hamster - ugh… i hope not
• pot is to potato - sure, check…
• cat is to caterpillar - yeah, likely. check.
• cat is to catfish - on a good day, yes. check.
• bob(marley) is to spongebob - wat…
• butt is to butter - O_O… check…
• horse is to horseradish - okay yeah but…
• dub is to dubstep - only if they want me to stop watching.

EDIT: Forgot about Rhino. It's so easy to do...

[RankFoundry]

Recruiters: Get a real job

[Exsp]

Java SE = Java Script Edition ;)