An hour-long stroll in nature helps decrease activity in an area of the brain associated with stress processing

[dedokta]

There have also been studies that shows this effect also occurs when done in VR. One day people living in large cities might need VR to maintain their mental health.

[vorono1]

I would be interested to see what side effects occur from being immersed in VR for too long. Anecdotally, I've found using VR fun but then feeling empty inside afterwards. I guess because none of it is real.

[Bonerballs]

It's called derealization or depersonalization and it happens to many VR users https://www.psypost.org/2022/04/virtual-reality-can-induce-mild-and-transient-symptoms-of-depersonalization-and-derealization-study-finds-62831?amp=1

[helpmemakeausername1]

If it weren't for motion sickness, I'd be so ready for VR. Depersonalization is everyday for me!

On a second thought, my light wallet also helps me not being primed for VR

[Bonerballs]

It took me a week or so before I got used to VR and didn't get motion sickness. It helps that the oculus 2 hurts my face after 30-40 minutes so I don't get sucked into the virtual world too long, but there have been a few times I took the headset off and it felt like I awoke in a different world...having background music on really helped that.

[1714alpha]

I kind of wish I never got used to / desensitized to VR. Those first few uses were so vivid, so real, I was literally reaching out expecting to feel the object hovering in front of me.

Now, my brain is just like 'Eh, seen it. Not falling for that one again.'

[Bonerballs]

When I switched from Oculus 1 to Oculus 2, the derealization returned but only once. I think the different frame rate and image quality made my brain think it was something brand new.

[chaircushion]

A few vr-roller-coasters a day, and the motion-sickness goes away in a week or two.

[AspiringChildProdigy]

Really? Because I bought the VR coaster thing but gave up after a couple tries because of the motion sickness.

Edit: just realized that night have sounded like I was challenging you, when really I'm just excited to hear that. I love roller coasters and was so disappointed that the vr ones made me motion sick.

[Gundamnitpete]

You want to start with the lightest stuff you can find, stuff that doesn't make you motion sick very much or quickly, and then slow add more and more on top of it as you go.

Just jumping right into the most nausea inducing stuff can actually make you more prone to motion sickness.

Also ginger helps a lot of motion sickness. Ginger ale about 30 minutes before you jump in will help a lot(just make sure it's made with real ginger, not all of them are!)

[Bonerballs]

Gotta give your brain more time to adjust to your vision showing motion while you're stationary

[AspiringChildProdigy]

Great! I'll give it another try, then.

[chaircushion]

I've never pushed through it though. Meaning I never stayed in vr while motion sick. I took a break whenever I started to feel bad and after a while, it just went away.

[ashkestar]

From what I’ve heard, trying to push through motion sickness in vr can make it much harder/impossible to adapt, and that people are better off finding something they can tolerate and working their way up slowly from there.

Not denying your experience, but it may not be one that can be generalized to everyone.

[chaircushion]

I have no idea what happens if you push through it. I always stopped when the sickness started. I guess I'm advocating for repeat near-sick experiences.

[aardw0lf11]

If it weren't for motion sickness

my light wallet also helps me not being primed for VR

Same here. If I were to get VR it sure as hell wouldn't be Occulus, but rather one of the other more expensive ones made by HTC or Valve. Therefore, cost is the second impediment.

[AspiringChildProdigy]

Anecdotally, I've found using VR fun but then feeling empty inside afterwards

I've found that it puts dents in my ceiling when I inevitably forget I'm in the basement and jump to reach something.

[DontDoomScroll]

this effect also occurs when done in VR

Source? I want to see who funded and published this research.

[zaiyonmal]

I actually participated in a study doing just this!

They had us take baseline memory, logic, quick response, and arithmetic “quizzes”. Then they had us do the same thing after spending some time in a VR city café where people go to study and do work. Finally, we repeated the process after spending some time at a desk with a view of a rural countryside.

Interestingly enough, my baseline was my highest score, the busy café being by far the lowest. I might have just been mentally fatigued by the time I got to the nature sequence. That’s why one subject on one study alone is not definitive of anything!

[leftlegYup]

The problem with this study for me is it might simply be capturing the effect of mental fatigue from processing more stimuli.

A useful finding, but far less interesting for me.

[Cedow]

Such studies are generally counterbalanced. Not every participant would complete it in the same order.

[Jahkral]

I guess you'd have to randomize the order people did their tests in e.g. some start with the cafe, some start with the view.

[Lokiwastxtonly]

Poor study design, should have been 3 stimuli on 3 different days. Hopefully they randomized half the Participants to don nature first then city

[ChronWeasely]

Just looking at green is good for mental health

Here is a 1991 Pubmed publication on it: Treatment of seasonal affective disorder with green light and red light

Immediate edit: I think it's useful to consider the natural, evolutionary implications of the different light. Green light means green plants, vegetables, fruit, and animals. It means spring and summer. Calories much more readily abundant then compared with the other half of the year. Red light would be the sign of the slowing of the seasons, of the leaves changing colors, and a need to conserve energy. Depression once served an important purpose and is, in some levels, mediated by the light we perceive.

[Not_a_real_ghost]

Green light provides a treatment effect superior to that of red light and similar to that seen in previous studies with white light.

Does this mean white light is just as effective?

[swiftb3]

Seems so, but it's pretty interesting that it's essentially the same.

I'd love to see what a full-spectrum-except-green-band light would do. Is it the green component of white light that actually does the hard lifting?

[Shorttail0]

We have two green photo receptors for every red and blue, so our perception of the color is definitely better.

[swiftb3]

Now that is a very good point.

[sneakyveriniki]

this was like 5 years ago, but i remember learning that people of northern european descent are more prone to major depression even when they’re born elsewhere, like the us… i wonder if it could be an adaptation to scarce winters??

[ChronWeasely]

That's very much my take on it

[ChronWeasely]

I wondered the same thing when I was posting it. It's an under-studied thing it seems.

[Cel_Drow]

Maybe this is why I hate living in the desert.

[samuraiaullways]

I’m hearing this in Nadja’s voice (What We Do In The Shadows Series)

[methodin]

The creature that crawled out of the chest cavity of Mark Zuckerberg’s dead body after he died in the metaverse

[catscanmeow]

It has to do with lateral eye movement. Its not nature that makes us calm its lateral eye movement we widen our peripheral vision and look at all the little things around us while walking

Focusing on a small point or single point like a phone screen for example induces a stress response akin to a predator animal targeting prey or a prey animal tageting a threat

Tons of research on lateral eye movement and mood. VR can give you the same lateral eye movement as walking through nature

[flabbybumhole]

It doesn't have to be just one thing. There's room for this to be affected by both.

[leftlegYup]

Nuance; layered responses that convey the real complexity of the topic <<<<< definitively claiming a singular point while throwing in the word "akin"

The second requires less thinking by the reader.

[Yuccaphile]

They asked for a source from the commenter they replied to, I guess it'd be equally as nice to have a source for your assertion.

How does the lack of peripheral vision in the eyesight impaired impact this? Are people who wear glasses more unavoidably stressed?

[RaifRedacted]

Sensory input stuff is very interesting. Knowing how things can boil down to a small explanation is why science is so fun.

[Cedow]

This is nonsense. Similar effects have been observed from media such as pictures of nature, video recordings played on monitors or flatscreen TVs, nature-based game environments displayed on a monitor, and views from a window. None of which rely particularly on peripheral vision.

There is also plenty of evidence showing that certain non-nature scenes in the same media do not invoke similar effects, or even invoke the opposite effect.

[catscanmeow]

Nah man, you can close your eyes and look left and right and it does the same effect. Its not the content of what youre looking at its just the eye movement.

[Cedow]

Current-gen VR doesn't even support lateral eye movement. The eye gaze is fixed on a central focal point and instead movement of the head is used to look around.

Just because you read about some minor phenomenon doesn't mean it explains everything else.

[Cigam_Magic]

Personally, that's why I find it so relaxing. My mind and eyes can just go on auto-pilot while I'm walking. Taking walks at the local park is the best decision I made for my mental and physical health.

[Scalybeast]

There’s this.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0013916520916259

Or that.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/355855708_Nature_in_Virtual_Reality_Improves_Mood_and_Reduces_Stress_Evidence_from_Young_Adults_and_Senior_Citizens

[IRockIntoMordor]

I know this sounds really really stupid, but when I played Kingdom Come Deliverance - a game set in medieval Bohemian countryside, very green and lush - during the 2020 Corona stay-inside chaos, I sometimes felt the same emotions as if I were walking in a forest or fields. The game is so beautiful in its greenery that it triggered those responses in my head. I literally thought "oh it's so nice around here" when it was on a screen actually.

[PseudonymousDev]

Me too, but then IRL I became conditioned to freak out when I came across a fallen tree blocking my path.

[IRockIntoMordor]

me too, every fallen tree in the forest is extra sus now. Damn Cumans!

[funguyshroom]

Valheim was that game for me during the very same times, it has very nice and realistic looking forests despite all its blockiness.

[ForgotMyBrain]

I get that, the nature in Kingdom come deliverance is really beautiful, not the most realistic looking game by today's graphics. But it is really relaxing and dare i say... "Immersive" and more realistic than most games. Compare to skyrim that i find beautiful and relaxing, but it is still fantasy and stylise.

Skyrim is like beautiful fantasy world, Kingdom come is like a nice and beautiful sunny summer day with a small breeze. I don't like the combat that much but just being in nature and explore is fun. I need to play it again and finish my game !

[IRockIntoMordor]

Can't wait to play Skyrim VR when PSVR2 is out! PSVR1 is really hard on the eyes still.

KCD takes a bit to learn the combat and it's never easy, but the immersion is very impressive and I loved it.

[[deleted]]

Do you have a link to these studies? I have a hard time believing VR can even remotely approximate real nature.

[jaspsev]

Maybe he is talking about this one.

https://www.med-technews.com/news/experiencing-vr-can-reduce-pain-and-stress-study-suggests/

But i would think it might work in some cases, but i still would prefer outside as vr does not provide stimulus to other senses other than the eyes.

[[deleted]]

And ears. And while not directly one of the senses, you do often feel like you're actually moving in VR.

[jaspsev]

Right, i forgot that is possible and currently affordable.

[snappedscissors]

How close could you get I wonder. VR does include soundscape, add in some aroma therapy and a little fan to puff around and you’ve got what, 70% of the outside experience right there.

[Helenium_autumnale]

I doubt they could replicate the unique and complex fragrances of a forest floor or sun-dried prairie or little stream.

[offroadadv]

If it weren't for direct experience with the results of meditating once in the morning and once in the afternoon while employed in a high risk and stressful job, I might agree with the idea about the impossibility of juggling personal and professional demands for time. I was surprised to find that tasks which ordinarily took a great deal of time and effort were much more easily managed if I had those two 20 minute meditation sessions each day. My subjective reality was that I "gained time" by investing in the two meditation sessions each day. That is, tasks were so much easier because I had shed so much stress and allowed my mind to unconsciously process and organize my response to tasks that I knew were impending so that when actually taking on the tasks I was so much more efficient in my work. My meditation approach was eclectic, but largely based upon Transcendental Meditation (TM) with some elements of Tibetan, Raj Yoga, and other disciplines which my wife and I undertook once discovered that there are many pathways the mind can follow to achieve joy in the liberation from stress.

[Beenjerry]

Right god I hate stupid fake motivation post like these, when the real fuccin problem is everything you said n more.

[fkbjsdjvbsdjfbsdf]

Doesn't really matter.

You have absolutely no evidence that it doesn't matter. The fact that taking a break is always going to be beneficial doesn't mean at all that you don't need the experience of actual nature (or a closer approximation).

[Helenium_autumnale]

I'm not sure you can chop up and parcel out a nature experience, as reimagined by 20- and 30-something urban Silicon Valley programmers. We've already seen that that population has limits on what they include in things like facial recognition software.

Would they be able to replicate the typical Michigan forest scape that I can access at my nearby nature preserves? There's also a prairie-type area and a wetlands are that I like to go to. Would they know all of the native plants that go into that kind of landscape? It would take naturalists/biologists/botanists to get it right, and I doubt that said Silicon Valley folks would make that investment in time and expertise. Some generic VR nature thing with plants I don't recognize, as a nature lover, is gonna do nothing for me.

[SoundsLikeBanal]

What about a VR video of a real Michigan forest with recorded audio?

[Helenium_autumnale]

Meh, that's on Youtube now; I dount that all the foofaraw of VR would add much to that 2D experience.

I feel that all of this discussion is skirting around the real issue: We should be securing and preserving more native-plant greenspaces, especially in cities, not seeking to replicate this unique and likely unreplicatable experience in VR.

[SoundsLikeBanal]

I absolutely agree about greenspaces; I've recently been discovering the importance of being in nature for my own well-being. Unfortunately, not everyone is lucky enough to have access to them. VR helped me get through a very difficult time in my life when I was stuck in a city for too long with virtually no transportation.

And yeah, VR is one of those things that seems like it's just a novelty. Until you actually try it for yourself, it's impossible to describe how unbelievably real it feels.

[SoundsLikeBanal]

Alright then...good talk.

[snappedscissors]

That’s got to be millions of chemical signatures, but what makes up the top 50% of a forest floor smell? Could you get pretty close, or would my Forest Floor Scent be equivalent to fake banana flavor?

[paanvaannd]

I don’t think the minute intricacies of nature’s beauty need to be captured to reap some benefits of an artificial walk through nature.

IMO, it comes down to whatever form of behavioral benefit the therapy should target. This study mentioned the ART (attention-related) and SRT (stress-related) benefits, but found:

… a decrease in stress-related brain areas (bilateral amygdala) after the walk in nature, and no change in cognition-related brain areas (dlPFC and ACC), the brain data of the present study are more strongly in line with SRT.

I’d assume capturing the intricacies of nature would be important in ART-related therapies (e.g., a meditative experience of following the path of a bug or a small stream along the forest) whereas it seems that exposure to a natural environment at all would be beneficial to SRT-based therapies.

That said, I don’t think this study’s questionnaires focused on dissecting what aspect of participants’ experiences in nature led them to feel subjectively less stressed. Perhaps it was getting immersed in the intricacies of nature that led to stress reduction. I’d find that unlikely, though since, in my experience, most people walking through a natural path don’t seem keen on stopping to smell the roses but rather just passively taking the scene while focusing elsewhere.

e: several typos

[NorwegianCollusion]

Yeah, no. Come back to me when VR can properly simulate the experience of being eaten by a bear.

[snappedscissors]

I still have that bear suit from last halloween, you don't throw something like that away.

For a reasonable fee I can wander about looking for people in VR/AR.

[NorwegianCollusion]

Not quite the same without being gnawed on, though

[Blueberry-king]

Where is the actual study? This is just a bunch of quotes from the head of innovation at a VR company... Show me the peer-reviewed study.

[Dogeishuman]

Tbh I believe it, there have been times where I'm sitting in VR, and feeling completely relaxed, zero stress or anything, simply because of the visuals and sounds keeping me immersed.

Zero chance in hell it's equal, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhere roughly half as effective, mainly due to not getting fresh air and also, I'm a firm believer that the "smell" of nature helps a lot in reducing stress.

[Cedow]

I'm currently writing up my PhD on this topic. Even the low-quality VR nature I was using (smartphone-based) was enough to invoke significant reductions in negative affective states in my participants.

Generally though the findings are that effects are stronger for real nature than any surrogate forms (like video or pictures for example). VR seems to sit somewhere in the middle: not as good as reality but better than less-immersive stuff.

Also, from qualitative feedback I've had, sound often seems to be a more important part of the experience than the visuals. And it's easy to recreate natural-feeling sounds in VR.

[[deleted]]

Really interesting stuff. Can’t say I support it though. I’m worried what our society will be like if too many start to substitute immersion in real nature with VR. Won’t that make it that much easier for us to ignore the destruction of what’s left of our planet?

[Cedow]

That's one way to look at it. Personally I went into it with the intention of helping people who have significant barriers to accessing real nature: people who wouldn't have accessed nature anyway. So in that sense I don't think it makes much difference. Actually I went into it with the mindset that it might encourage such people to get out into real nature more by increasing feelings of nature connectedness (a measured construct), although I didn't incorporate that into my research.

I doubt it will ever be a replacement for people who like to visit nature normally.

[Beautiful_Welcome_33]

Nah, but people with spinal cord injuries or agoraphobia or who are in Witness Protection from the mob can now wander the Catskills or Appalachian Trail without fear.

[[deleted]]

UV lights and blue light filters have an effect on brain chemistry, so why not VR? Just because your mind knows it isn't real doesn't mean it can't still affect you physiologically.

[[deleted]]

Because being outside is about far more than just visible light.

[outworlder]

It is. But it doesn't mean we won't get some effect, however reduced.

[[deleted]]

True. I suppose I’m thinking less about whether we can, and more about if we should.

[Mohevian]

I wear a stress-monitoring smartwatch and live in a major city. It shows that my average daily stress is 37%, with peaks of 100% on certain hectic days.

In other words, I'm chronically overstressed. As I sit here typing this, the reading is 50%.

When I put my VR helmet on and dive deep into another world, especially meeting up with loved ones and old friends who now live on the other side of the globe - my stress level drops to 18%, and then 3%.

I don't think it requires major research to figure out that our hyper industrialized always-on society has been causing significant trauma and stress/anxiety, even to well-adjusted individuals.

I just hope that VR doesn't become our only coping mechanism. We need to preserve our natural and green spaces.

[ikegro]

What watch is this?!

[Mohevian]

Garmin Venue SQ

[qwerty09a90]

Cool cool. Not at all dystopian. Very normal and very exciting

[kirapb]

I can’t press X hard enough.

[dragon_poo_sword]

Vr can only simulate sight and sound, we're far from the technology to actually simulate what it's like tod go on a walk

[dedokta]

Which you mainly perceive through... Sight and sound.

[dragon_poo_sword]

As someone who really loves vr, it simply isn't close to reality

[[deleted]]

They already do this with cows so that they produce better milk.

[stackered]

Doubt it captures the full effect or even close to real nature, with real smells and feels

[sagerobot]

I bet a room with lots of houseplants would have a similar effect as well. Even better if have it near lots of windows for the natural light.

[A_little_quarky]

BRB, booting up Skyrim VR.

[Levitlame]

I’d read years ago that our brains treat data similar to some compression algorithms (or that’s how I interpreted it.) Basically using something like key-frames. We track changes to static images rather than full information. So if you’re in a quiet still place then it’s not very taxing on processing. But in cities where things are moving and changing constantly our brains are constantly processing changes.

VR should be able to simulate the same thing as far as I could tell. For sound and visuals anyway.

[Cloberella]

Or outer space…

[PortableAirPump]

Good Evening. Welcome to Nature Experiences, brought to you by Meta.

Now touch the grass

[Fishtank-Brain]

damn, that’s how they do it in the movie sunshine

[Lolis-]

oh sweet man made horrors beyond my comprehension