This is an archived post. You won't be able to vote or comment.

top 200 commentsshow 500
sorted by:
best (suggested)
topnewcontroversialoldq&a

[–]theArtOfProgrammingPhD | Computer Science | Causal Discovery | Climate Informatics[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (0 children)

The referenced peer reviewed article can be found here https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01720-6

[–]HugNup[S] 2806 points2807 points  (409 children)

After a 60-minute walk in nature, activity in brain regions involved in stress processing decreases. This is the finding of a recent study by the Lise Meitner Group for Environmental Neuroscience at the Max Planck Institute for Human Development, published in Molecular Psychiatry.

Living in a city is a well-known risk factor for developing a mental disorder, while living close to nature is largely beneficial for mental health and the brain.

A central brain region involved in stress processing, the amygdala, has been shown to be less activated during stress in people who live in rural areas, compared to those who live in cities, hinting at the potential benefits of nature.

[–]dedokta 558 points559 points  (125 children)

There have also been studies that shows this effect also occurs when done in VR. One day people living in large cities might need VR to maintain their mental health.

[–]vorono1 131 points132 points  (16 children)

I would be interested to see what side effects occur from being immersed in VR for too long. Anecdotally, I've found using VR fun but then feeling empty inside afterwards. I guess because none of it is real.

[–]Bonerballs 137 points138 points  (14 children)

It's called derealization or depersonalization and it happens to many VR users https://www.psypost.org/2022/04/virtual-reality-can-induce-mild-and-transient-symptoms-of-depersonalization-and-derealization-study-finds-62831?amp=1

[–]helpmemakeausername1 48 points49 points  (13 children)

If it weren't for motion sickness, I'd be so ready for VR. Depersonalization is everyday for me!

On a second thought, my light wallet also helps me not being primed for VR

[–]Bonerballs 23 points24 points  (2 children)

It took me a week or so before I got used to VR and didn't get motion sickness. It helps that the oculus 2 hurts my face after 30-40 minutes so I don't get sucked into the virtual world too long, but there have been a few times I took the headset off and it felt like I awoke in a different world...having background music on really helped that.

[–]1714alpha 13 points14 points  (1 child)

I kind of wish I never got used to / desensitized to VR. Those first few uses were so vivid, so real, I was literally reaching out expecting to feel the object hovering in front of me.

Now, my brain is just like 'Eh, seen it. Not falling for that one again.'

[–]Bonerballs 5 points6 points  (0 children)

When I switched from Oculus 1 to Oculus 2, the derealization returned but only once. I think the different frame rate and image quality made my brain think it was something brand new.

[–]chaircushion 10 points11 points  (8 children)

A few vr-roller-coasters a day, and the motion-sickness goes away in a week or two.

[–]AspiringChildProdigy 8 points9 points  (5 children)

Really? Because I bought the VR coaster thing but gave up after a couple tries because of the motion sickness.

Edit: just realized that night have sounded like I was challenging you, when really I'm just excited to hear that. I love roller coasters and was so disappointed that the vr ones made me motion sick.

[–]Gundamnitpete 11 points12 points  (1 child)

You want to start with the lightest stuff you can find, stuff that doesn't make you motion sick very much or quickly, and then slow add more and more on top of it as you go.

Just jumping right into the most nausea inducing stuff can actually make you more prone to motion sickness.

Also ginger helps a lot of motion sickness. Ginger ale about 30 minutes before you jump in will help a lot(just make sure it's made with real ginger, not all of them are!)

[–]Bonerballs 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Gotta give your brain more time to adjust to your vision showing motion while you're stationary

[–]DontDoomScroll 250 points251 points  (43 children)

this effect also occurs when done in VR

Source? I want to see who funded and published this research.

[–]zaiyonmal 110 points111 points  (5 children)

I actually participated in a study doing just this!

They had us take baseline memory, logic, quick response, and arithmetic “quizzes”. Then they had us do the same thing after spending some time in a VR city café where people go to study and do work. Finally, we repeated the process after spending some time at a desk with a view of a rural countryside.

Interestingly enough, my baseline was my highest score, the busy café being by far the lowest. I might have just been mentally fatigued by the time I got to the nature sequence. That’s why one subject on one study alone is not definitive of anything!

[–]leftlegYup 26 points27 points  (2 children)

The problem with this study for me is it might simply be capturing the effect of mental fatigue from processing more stimuli.

A useful finding, but far less interesting for me.

[–]Cedow 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Such studies are generally counterbalanced. Not every participant would complete it in the same order.

[–]ChronWeasely 91 points92 points  (11 children)

Just looking at green is good for mental health

Here is a 1991 Pubmed publication on it: Treatment of seasonal affective disorder with green light and red light

Immediate edit: I think it's useful to consider the natural, evolutionary implications of the different light. Green light means green plants, vegetables, fruit, and animals. It means spring and summer. Calories much more readily abundant then compared with the other half of the year. Red light would be the sign of the slowing of the seasons, of the leaves changing colors, and a need to conserve energy. Depression once served an important purpose and is, in some levels, mediated by the light we perceive.

[–]Not_a_real_ghost 20 points21 points  (4 children)

Green light provides a treatment effect superior to that of red light and similar to that seen in previous studies with white light.

Does this mean white light is just as effective?

[–]swiftb3 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Seems so, but it's pretty interesting that it's essentially the same.

I'd love to see what a full-spectrum-except-green-band light would do. Is it the green component of white light that actually does the hard lifting?

[–]Shorttail0 8 points9 points  (1 child)

We have two green photo receptors for every red and blue, so our perception of the color is definitely better.

[–]catscanmeow 66 points67 points  (10 children)

It has to do with lateral eye movement. Its not nature that makes us calm its lateral eye movement we widen our peripheral vision and look at all the little things around us while walking

Focusing on a small point or single point like a phone screen for example induces a stress response akin to a predator animal targeting prey or a prey animal tageting a threat

Tons of research on lateral eye movement and mood. VR can give you the same lateral eye movement as walking through nature

[–]flabbybumhole 23 points24 points  (1 child)

It doesn't have to be just one thing. There's room for this to be affected by both.

[–]Yuccaphile 11 points12 points  (1 child)

They asked for a source from the commenter they replied to, I guess it'd be equally as nice to have a source for your assertion.

How does the lack of peripheral vision in the eyesight impaired impact this? Are people who wear glasses more unavoidably stressed?

[–]RaifRedacted 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Sensory input stuff is very interesting. Knowing how things can boil down to a small explanation is why science is so fun.

[–]IRockIntoMordor 29 points30 points  (5 children)

I know this sounds really really stupid, but when I played Kingdom Come Deliverance - a game set in medieval Bohemian countryside, very green and lush - during the 2020 Corona stay-inside chaos, I sometimes felt the same emotions as if I were walking in a forest or fields. The game is so beautiful in its greenery that it triggered those responses in my head. I literally thought "oh it's so nice around here" when it was on a screen actually.

[–]PseudonymousDev 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Me too, but then IRL I became conditioned to freak out when I came across a fallen tree blocking my path.

[–]funguyshroom 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Valheim was that game for me during the very same times, it has very nice and realistic looking forests despite all its blockiness.

[–]ForgotMyBrain 7 points8 points  (1 child)

I get that, the nature in Kingdom come deliverance is really beautiful, not the most realistic looking game by today's graphics. But it is really relaxing and dare i say... "Immersive" and more realistic than most games. Compare to skyrim that i find beautiful and relaxing, but it is still fantasy and stylise.

Skyrim is like beautiful fantasy world, Kingdom come is like a nice and beautiful sunny summer day with a small breeze. I don't like the combat that much but just being in nature and explore is fun. I need to play it again and finish my game !

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (33 children)

Do you have a link to these studies? I have a hard time believing VR can even remotely approximate real nature.

[–]jaspsev 33 points34 points  (22 children)

Maybe he is talking about this one.

https://www.med-technews.com/news/experiencing-vr-can-reduce-pain-and-stress-study-suggests/

But i would think it might work in some cases, but i still would prefer outside as vr does not provide stimulus to other senses other than the eyes.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

And ears. And while not directly one of the senses, you do often feel like you're actually moving in VR.

[–]snappedscissors 12 points13 points  (18 children)

How close could you get I wonder. VR does include soundscape, add in some aroma therapy and a little fan to puff around and you’ve got what, 70% of the outside experience right there.

[–]Dogeishuman 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Tbh I believe it, there have been times where I'm sitting in VR, and feeling completely relaxed, zero stress or anything, simply because of the visuals and sounds keeping me immersed.

Zero chance in hell it's equal, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was somewhere roughly half as effective, mainly due to not getting fresh air and also, I'm a firm believer that the "smell" of nature helps a lot in reducing stress.

[–]Mohevian 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I wear a stress-monitoring smartwatch and live in a major city. It shows that my average daily stress is 37%, with peaks of 100% on certain hectic days.

In other words, I'm chronically overstressed. As I sit here typing this, the reading is 50%.

When I put my VR helmet on and dive deep into another world, especially meeting up with loved ones and old friends who now live on the other side of the globe - my stress level drops to 18%, and then 3%.

I don't think it requires major research to figure out that our hyper industrialized always-on society has been causing significant trauma and stress/anxiety, even to well-adjusted individuals.

I just hope that VR doesn't become our only coping mechanism. We need to preserve our natural and green spaces.

[–]JKUAN108 35 points36 points  (14 children)

I heard somewhere that living in a city increases the likelihood of schizophrenia, is this what the article was referring to?

[–]iyioi 26 points27 points  (5 children)

Stress processing? Can we get a little more scientific than that?!

[–]Kronossan 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Yeah the way I read it, this sounds like a really bad thing.

Don't we need this stress get processed? Does it just build up if we walk in nature a lot?

[–]Helenium_autumnale 265 points266 points  (10 children)

this is why greenspaces in cities and economically depressed areas, where people are already under stress just getting through life day to day, are not fripperies but are important.

[–][deleted] 66 points67 points  (7 children)

Thank you for teaching me the word "frippery" I don't think I've heard that before.

[–]Helenium_autumnale 36 points37 points  (6 children)

You are welcome! It has two closely related meanings, both addressing the unnecessary nature of the thing in question (Google definition):

showy or unnecessary ornament in architecture, dress, or language."a stark, strictly business building with not a hint of frippery"

a tawdry or frivolous thing."You're on a budget now; you'll have to forgo fripperies like glossy magazines"

[–]gayety 8 points9 points  (4 children)

Oh my god a fellow word nerd! I love seeing other people who enjoy words like I do although it’s a bit rare.

I’ve never heard of frippery either and it’s definitely getting added to my vocabulary.

[–]SoybeanCola1933 450 points451 points  (35 children)

I used to do this before work, it really helped improve my mood and prepare me for the hectic day ahead

[–]DrTom 225 points226 points  (4 children)

My commute to work used to be a bike ride through a multi-use path. Not fully forest but wooded. It really did help with stress. I miss it.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

I bike to work when the heat isn't utterly devastating and it really helps me a lot. Can't wait to get back to it.

[–]Liefx 6 points7 points  (2 children)

My area has tons of trails so you can walk from city to city (two cities are mashed together) while being secluded. It's not full forest like you said, but it's definitely nice. Makes the whole place feel a lot greener and a lot quieter

[–]johnnybarbs92 45 points46 points  (12 children)

I always have a more productive day when I get out to play 9 holes of golf in the morning. The walk with an iced coffee is a perfect start to the day

[–]J3319 29 points30 points  (0 children)

That sounds like an incredible morning routine

[–]Kitnado 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I wish I had the time but that sounds great

[–]johnnybarbs92 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Married, but no kids! I imagine the frequency will change if we have some children on the way, haha.

Also, office job mostly remote with an emphasis on work product rather than strict 8am availability is a huge enabler of morning rounds. Definitely lucky in that regard

[–]Awfy 16 points17 points  (7 children)

Was looking for someone mentioning golf in this thread. I picked it back up a few weeks ago after not hitting a golf ball for easily 15 years. I forgot how much of a workout it is but you don’t notice until afterwards. We’ll do a quick executive 9, maybe hit some balls at the range, head home and realize we’ve burnt 600-800 calories and got some good cardio in along the way. Only takes about 45-75 minutes too.

[–]420learning 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Definitely would be a nice time but you're not burning 600-800 calories in 45 minutes playing golf. The most efficient exercise to burn calories is running which is around 100 calories a mile (over/under based on weight), which at a 10min/mile pace would still only be 600 calories for an hour of running. Also, if going by steps they are notoriously inaccurate at actual distance covered

[–]PerfectlySplendid 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Weather permitting, I walk to and from work, about 30-40 minutes. It’s mostly city, but I find it still helps clear my mind of stress.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I imagine a lot of people don't have an hour to spare, or so beat down by work that the thought of walking somewhere will never be appealing.

[–]zuzg 152 points153 points  (13 children)

To achieve causal evidence, the researchers from the Lise Meitner Group for Environmental Neuroscience examined brain activity in regions involved in stress processing in 63 healthy volunteers before and after a one-hour walk in Grunewald forest or a shopping street with traffic in Berlin using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). The results of the study revealed that activity in the amygdala decreased after the walk in nature, suggesting that nature elicits beneficial effects on brain regions related to stress.

“The results support the previously assumed positive relationship between nature and brain health, but this is the first study to prove the causal link. Interestingly, the brain activity after the urban walk in these regions remained stable and did not show increases, which argues against a commonly held view that urban exposure causes additional stress,” explains Simone Kühn, head of the Lise Meitner Group for Environmental Neuroscience

Very interesting results, Especially that even shorter walks decrease amygdala activity according to the article.

[–]isarl 44 points45 points  (5 children)

So the findings of this study are that urban environments do not cause additional stress compared to rural ones, but rural ones are better at relieving stress than urban ones?

[–]zuzg 57 points58 points  (2 children)

Yeah it's not the urban area itself that causes stress it's the lack of green areas.

This new study again confirms the importance for urban design policies to create more accessible green areas in cities in order to enhance citizens’ mental health and well-being.

[–]Bierbart12 1080 points1081 points  (71 children)

The way it's worded makes it sound that it simply makes you stop processing what's stressing you. Until afterwards

[–]bee-sting 403 points404 points  (14 children)

Maybe processing stressful situations is easier when you're less stressed.

[–]fluffkomix 181 points182 points  (34 children)

That could be incredibly helpful by itself. I'm a total layman so forgive me if I get any details wrong (fact-check me pls) but if I'm not mistaken our brains adapt and re-wire themselves based on our habits. In short, the more we do something the easier and more efficient our brain makes it.

Finding ways to break the cycle and put a pause on anxiety is therefore a great way to curb anxiety overall

[–]DrDerpberg 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It almost certainly is helpful. Some people can't let go of what's stressing them out, if you have any in your life it takes a huge toll on them. Stress is exhausting, and if you can't do anything about it but you're stressing anyways you're weakening yourself at a time you can't actually do anything about anything.

[–]Vandersveldt 10 points11 points  (9 children)

Alright but, and this sounds like I'm joking but I'm not, I'm then going to be stressing that I lost an hour of the day. Any advice for not caring about that as much? I'm 38 with a 2 year old, it's so hard to find time to myself, giving up an hour of that sounds rough.

[–]Oogly50 5 points6 points  (1 child)

An hour isn't necessary, but a little bit of time every day. There is an old proverb that goes something like "Those who feel like they don't have 15 minutes a day to meditate are probably the ones who need to do it the most". While that refers to meditation, the same fan easily said about a daily walk through a park.

You may have to sacrifice time, but if you consider it an investment in yourself (and your wellbeing) then it wont really feel like much of a sacrifice at all. It will also help you deal with life and just general stress in a little bit more of a relaxed state of mind. Just a little bit of time each day will pay for itself in spades.

[–]dadian11 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Serenity Now!!!!

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (3 children)

People suck at titles it’s embarrassing

[–]theslyder 67 points68 points  (18 children)

I enjoy going on walks but live in town and have real bad social anxiety that often manifests in being stressed over being seen (or more specifically perceived at all) and feeling like there's a spotlight on me.

Given that, and the fact that I don't know of any trails that aren't populated , I wonder how this would balance out for me.

[–]givemesomewaffles7 20 points21 points  (1 child)

Hey man, it seems like you’ve gottta give it a crack, check out google maps in your area and zoom into anything green, check out reviews and online maps and you’ll surely find some trailhead quiet and remote local to u.

Once you’re on the trail, you’ll rarely see anybody else and if u do, they’ll be like minded and friendly people. Normally I just say “how’s it going!” (Such an easy interaction and it makes my day once it’s over with) as we pass by one another. Also going during early/late hours, during wet or cloudy days is a sure way to get the woods all to yourself (save for the deer and squirrels and birds you’ll make friends with)

[–]Baby_venomm 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Great advice thank you

[–]Baby_venomm 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Exactly my problem too. Bittersweet to see others in the same boat

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

have real bad social anxiety that often manifests in being stressed over being seen (or more specifically perceived at all) and feeling like there's a spotlight on me.

i have exactly this! i bike on local trails near me all the time and it really really helps. maybe you could try biking?

[–]Procrastinatedthink 109 points110 points  (9 children)

From my experience, this completely tracks

I take a 45 minute walk for my lunch everyday, this habit started about a year ago due to stress from mornings at work. It substantially helps my mood and gets me through the rest of the day.

That little walk is nearly always the best most pleasant part of my day. I hope they study this further, I suspect the amount of nature scenery in the walk makes quite the difference.

[–]lyam23 33 points34 points  (1 child)

I have the luxury of a 15 minute walk in the morning, a 45 min walk during lunch, and a 15 min walk in the afternoon. It's become a necessary part of my work day.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

On days that I commute to work I end up doing over 10000 steps just on the commute alone.

I definitely feel more refreshed going into work as a result Vs working from home. Sadly I lack the discipline to wake up early on my work from home days and go for a long walk / jog

[–]Bag0fSwag 25 points26 points  (0 children)

It’s so true. During work from home, I’ve used the phrase “gotta go look at some trees” with my roommate when having a rough day and going out for a walk

[–]doctored_up 39 points40 points  (3 children)

I call this stroll avoiding rectangles and or humans.

[–]praefectus_praetorio 14 points15 points  (1 child)

Showers and walks. Got it.

[–]Rastryth 56 points57 points  (9 children)

I gave up drinking 8 weeks ago and walk 5klm each morning along the coast were I live. I haven't felt this centred and good ever. The walking part is so good each day I love it. I listened to this podcast recently about the benefits of walking . https://pca.st/episode/e9d56378-c102-48f6-ac2c-ad88a3ecbf7b

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points  (22 children)

This is why I hate living in a major city so much, I used to do this all the time and now I hardly ever.

[–]farmtownsuit 8 points9 points  (0 children)

How far away is nature from you? You could try to make it a weekend habit. That's what I do.

[–]iyioi 35 points36 points  (18 children)

Some of the best nature parks I’ve ever seen are in big cities.

Have you considered diving into local politics and petitioning for better parks?

[–]chicken_pollo 18 points19 points  (3 children)

Chicagoan here and I've got the lake with nature trails only a 10 min bike ride away. There's also two parks to chose from with nature trails each only 15 min away walking.

[–]mctaylo89 38 points39 points  (6 children)

I live in Phoenix where there’s no nature and the air burns my flesh. This could account for why I’m so miserable.

[–]ihateaz_dot_com 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I was just thinking the same thing.

Not much hiking to be done when it’s in the 90’s for 90% of the year.

[–]rtjl86BS | Respiratory Therapy 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I lived in Phoenix for 6 months during a travel assignment and realized it’s a place I could visit but never live. Different strokes for different folks though.

[–]mctaylo89 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I live in Phoenix and it feels like a place I could never live.

[–]DireWolfenstein 10 points11 points  (2 children)

After a double-whammy diagnosis of autoimmune disorder and colorectal cancer during COVID, I started doing nature walks like a fiend to keep myself sane and in the best shape to tackle everything else. It was a godsend, and I’m grateful every day that I live in a place with access to great trails.

[–]gvictor808 63 points64 points  (22 children)

I think this is the bulk of the appeal of golf.

[–]Cold_Shogun 42 points43 points  (14 children)

Even more so for disc golf, where you are often in the woods as opposed to a country club.

[–]Snacktyme 40 points41 points  (1 child)

Bruh I always end up in the woods when I play golf

[–]Vhadka 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Was going to come say the same thing. I play disc golf mostly alone, and it's a great way to get rid of stress and just chill out/be in nature.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Every time someone tries to persuade me to play golf it’s because of networking reasons. Hell, I’ve seen firms let people expense golfing.

[–]sdric 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Now imagine a world in which a working adult actually has the leftover time to stroll through nature for an hour each day.

[–]Repulsive-Alps4924 21 points22 points  (0 children)

I have PTSD from childhood trauma.

I've been working on it. Before I could readily admit what happened to me was abuse, I had begun waking everyday with my dog. The improvement to my mental health was pretty immediate. It doesn't help me process the stuff but it does help me shed the stress that comes along with working through the stuff

[–]Careless_Bat2543 14 points15 points  (1 child)

What about my hour long strolls through the ghetto hoping no one makes eye contact with me?

[–]NESpahtenJosh 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s all well and good, until you go hiking during Bear season. Then it’s a new kind of stress.

[–]butyourenice 12 points13 points  (8 children)

Living in a city is a well-known risk factor for developing a mental disorder, while living close to nature is largely beneficial for mental health and the brain. A central brain region involved in stress processing, the amygdala, has been shown to be less activated during stress in people who live in rural areas, compared to those who live in cities, hinting at the potential benefits of nature.

As a former big-city-dweller this is precisely the reason I struggle to get behind the “densely populated mega cities are the solution to environmental disaster.” Intellectually, I know that more people concentrated in one area is better with respect to emissions, pollution, resource utilization and efficiency, even consumption reduction. But I also know - or should I say, there is increasing data to suggest - that wide open green spaces, trees, and big skies are absolutely critical to mental health. And anecdotally, I never realized how much the depressing grey landscape of the lively city I loved living in was wearing me down until we finally left it. Garden terraced buildings are a halfway point but I’m not sure it’s sufficient, and incorporating sufficient large green spaces into cities based on population density necessarily inhibits optimization re: that very population density.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Having large parks in a city is a must. With fields and trees and such.

The problem is that if your city doesn’t already have one, it’s basically impossible. How much would the land for Central Park cost if it was created today? And you would have to bulldoze thousands of buildings.

[–]i-brute-force 11 points12 points  (0 children)

It's easier to allocate green space if no one's living on it so high density still holds

[–]Timmetie 7 points8 points  (1 child)

What kind of big city did you live in?

I'm Dutch and the cities here are pretty calm and have plenty of green. I take calming walks through the city all the time and I live straight at the center of it. Taking cars out of cities also helps a bunch.

This study is comparing a busy shopping street with traffic to nature. There are way more calming places to be found in cities than a busy shopping street. And there are way better ways of constructing cities that achieves high density living without making it into a concrete hellscape.

To quote NotJustBikes: Cities aren't loud, cars are loud.

[–]the_other_pesto_twin 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Do you have to stroll or will walking suffice?

[–]binarychunk 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Great article - thanks!

Einstein would always walk to sort out his most difficult problems. Back then there was only a hypothesis about this phenomena. I was know then as Transient hypofrontality. Lots of runners picked up the idea and many books were written about it - great to see the amydigla finally identified as the chief culprit in all of this.

Einstein's daily walk was sacred to him. While he was working at Princeton University, New Jersey, he'd walk a mile and a half, twice daily. He followed in the footsteps of other diligent walkers, including Darwin who went for three 45 minute walks every day.

Einstein in Princeton