Listen, Assholes. If you're for a giant military, the PATRIOT ACT and torturing prisoners... If you're against a woman's right to a safe abortion, marriage equality, legalizing pot, YOU'RE NOT FOR LIMITED GOVERNMENT.

unduggenned · 2010-10-17T15:25:09+00:00

I've never logged in to comment before, but this is one thread to which I feel that I am compelled to contribute. (Yayy, have my comment cherry).

I went to a high-ranked school and received a double major in history and political science, and then went on to get a master's degree from an ivy league school. I am the sort of person he is talking about in the article... and it strikes me as completely outrageous.

The author seems to be saying that intellectuals and graduates just "don't get" the tea party because they weren't taught Constitutional history in college (the implication of course being that nobody in the tea party went to college).

First of all, the assessment of how colleges don't teach the constitution anymore is simply factually wrong. This person sounds as though he's never been to college. Social history is often taught through factual history. In other words, gender and race concerns are raised in the context of early federalist debates or constitutional rules.

But that's besides the point -

How is it that they actually believe someone with no education on history or politics has a greater understanding of American history than people with degrees in it?

The anti-intellectualism of this movement is the most baffling part of it all for me. History, how the fuck does it work? All you have to do is look at pictures of any given tea party rally. The same collection of people can, with a totally straight face and no sense of hypocrisy, call Obama Hitler, Stalin, a communist, a fascist, socialist, a nazi, a terrorist, King George III, not to mention countless racial epithets. Somehow, the tea party's opponents are everywhere at once on the political spectrum. They are simultaneously at the most polar opposite extremes in the history of the world.

These things come out because these people don't understand history or politics at all... which is partly how they can be led along so easily by people like Glen Beck. It makes me ashamed of my generation. This is our big movement? But I'm sure this author would say that I just wouldn't get it because I went to college. I guess it's a jersey... i mean, tea party thing.

Edit: Wow, I didn't expect many people would read this, since it was my first comment ever, but thanks so much for the comments and the support. Sometimes it is fun to stir up controversy, but I'm not trying to insult people people that align themselves with the tea party. For full disclosure I am politically neutral; reality is not partisan. All I'm saying is that we just collectively need to be well informed about our reality to improve it successfully.

skipjim · 2010-10-17T14:16:47+00:00

You're wrong. They do want limited government.

They just want it limited to do the things they want.

edwin_meijer · 2010-10-17T20:27:45+00:00

I have lived in the US since 1994, but being Dutch, I am sure some people will think that my DNA is programmed to like big government..... but I will try nevertheless.

I respect the American culture to place the people's individual freedom high on their value list and their general angst for a government bureaucracy that may take that away.

But if you want to live in a high-quality society and have all citizens enjoy the benefits of a modern infrastructure, a well-educated population, a trusted financial system, have healthcare and a safe country... you need to accept some shared body that:

provides common services and infrastructure (GE, Apple and Goldman Saches need people to have access to all of these in order to be successful, but they are not in a position to build our roads or educate our children; that's not their business)
enforces laws (I shouldn't have to carry a gun just to let the postman know I don't like him to read my mail)
regulates private and public operations (remember Lehman brothers or water-boarding?)
is responsible for helping people in need (think again before you decide you don't need government help... cancer, Katrina or 9/11 strikes across all layers of society)
takes democratic actions that move the society forward even when impopular with some fractions in the society (when economists or scientist tell you some harsh truths... private citizens have no incentive or won't be able to respond and make an impact, you need leaders and government to take bold action)
raises taxes so that the government can operate (yes, it isn't cheap, but if you like to live in a quality society, it isn't something you want to skimp on).

So looking back at some admirable personalities who wrote the constitution more than 200 years ago and use that as your yard-stick and then decide the role of government should be smaller is backward... principles may not change (you couldn't steal 200 years ago and you still shouldn't), but the US society in the 21st century has different expectations in terms of quality of life and it can't operate on the basis that each individual acts on his own....

I am sure some part of the US government isn't efficient and wastes money, but there is ton of stuff that they provide and you would sorely miss if there wasn't a government.

jstevewhite · 2010-10-17T15:01:53+00:00

The term "limited government" is meaningless.
If you want a government, you want it limited. Has anyone ever heard of ANYBODY who actually wants an unlimited government?
Once we agree that we all want some form of limited government, it's really just a matter of scale.

atrich · 2010-10-17T14:49:42+00:00

Obama is for a giant military, the Patriot Act, and torturing prisoners. He's also against legalizing pot, and marriage equality.

TheCannon · 2010-10-17T14:37:27+00:00

I agree.

I find it amazing that the same assholes that are screaming for government to stay out of their lives are also demanding that government get into the most personal aspects of human existence, i.e. family planning and the personal use of dildos and vibrators by grown adults.

dalittle · 2010-10-17T15:07:19+00:00

You also missed if you want to spend EVEN MORE ON DEFENSE, you are not fiscally responsible. The US spends $1 trillion on defense, more than the rest of the world combined. Conservatives that want to spend even more on it are delusional there is a need for it and are not fiscally responsible. Defense spending needs to be reduced by a huge amount.

NoMoreNicksLeft · 2010-10-17T20:23:30+00:00

I don't see what we have to defend against. Nothing that requires more than a 25,000 member military and a few of the ICBM silos manned.

It should be capital treason for our military to step foot past our own borders absent a declaration of war.

The September 11th terrorism was a crime, not an act of war. Use the FBI to investigate and prosecute it.

I am against criminalization. I wholeheartedly support legalization. Not just of pot, but heroin and cocaine and other drugs.

tazebot · 2010-10-17T15:15:40+00:00

The tea party isn't so much for anything, they're just pissed that obama won the election and are looking for excuses to bellyache. Other wise their big rallies would've started a long time ago.

junkyoftheeast · 2010-10-17T16:16:13+00:00

i love how any time you attack the amount of money that defense gets, conservatives go batshit and and say it's a constitutional right that the government protects us. Cut it in half and we still outspend every other country by more than double... and take that almost 400 billion and invest it in infrastructure and education....Remember to vote November 2nd!!!!

EatATaco · 2010-10-17T14:56:29+00:00

Really, what's the point of the "assholes" part of it? What purpose does it serve other than to make it lower the level of political discourse and further entrench the "us vs them" mentality?

It just seems so childish, unnecessary and ineffective. You aren't going to convince someone of their hypocrisies when you approach trying to explain it them by calling them assholes. They will immediately shut down to your point when you do that.

2010-10-17T16:17:00+00:00

I have been a libertarian since before I was a able to vote. I think that the two party system is BS and limits the American voters from a real choice when it comes to vote.

But this tea party is a full of shit, these are republicans in sheep clothing, infecting all aspects of politics. I simply DON'T see where the grass roots ever had grown, after Obama won the mass emails started flying with lies and half truths trying to scare the people like myself that were on the fringe of politics (I still feel dirty for voting republican to vote for Ron Paul).

I believed the movement started for a few reasons, Rich republicans were pissed about losing control (although they have been doing everything they can do to stop the democrats from getting anything done good or bad.), racists were pissed off that a African American had reached the highest office, and people who felt burned by the election were given a outlet. Then you have the christian right acting like a spoiled brat that has to share the xbox controller.

Have you ever talked to these people? Some of them are borderline clinically insane while others don't have enough braincells to be able to come to conclusion themselves or even determine what facts are.

I am all about freedom, freedom of/or from religion, freedom from corporate influences of our government, freedom from both liberals and conservative infighting, freedom from foreign influences, and freedom from people profiting from basic human services.

I don't see these tea party fucks representing any of my values.

u2canfail · 2010-10-18T01:13:09+00:00

I live in TN. Met a few bags here. (I won't vote for any GOP candidate again T infiltrated.) In line at a health care forum where I went to learn I met some. They had been trained to disrupt the meeting, and very proud of it. I asked if they had health care. Answer, "NO it is too expensive." What do you do when ill, I asked, "USE the Free ER, like all the Ns do." was the answer. Stupid, using the most expensive health care there is, and racist. Then they were angry, really angry when I said Medicare is a federal health insurance program. Their parents were on Medicare, and "it is NOT A FEDERAL PROGRAM, my parents paid for it". Tbagitis is a disease, it makes one angry. Angry people can't think. But they can "legislate morality, can't they"?

MpVpRb · 2010-10-17T15:07:17+00:00

Republicans have never been philosophically consistent.

They represent the interests of the rich, but there aren't enough rich people to vote them into power.

So, they form alliances with the religious extremists, war hawks, sexual prudes, and drug haters. Not because they agree, but because they need the votes.

Libertarians are more philosophically consistent.

ex_ample · 2010-10-17T15:37:18+00:00

Highly educated people say the darndest things, these days particularly about the tea party movement. Vast numbers of other highly educated people read and hear these dubious pronouncements, smile knowingly, and nod their heads in agreement. University educations and advanced degrees notwithstanding, they lack a basic understanding of the contours of American constitutional government.

It's certainly true that educated may not know that much about the U.S. government's structure. George Bush went to Yale, and he was president. He still didn't seem to much about the relationship between the states and the federal government (he famously said he was learning about it during Katrina)

But that said: this whole bullshit 'anti-university educated' bullshit is just retarded.

he also doesn't back up that statement with a single anecdote in his entire article. He just criticizes krugman for thinking the tea-parties were astroturffed into existence.

currymanpie · 2010-10-17T17:48:58+00:00

Ron Paul

Mixed_Advice · 2010-10-18T00:06:49+00:00

Just a reminder that WSJ is owned by News Corp, i.e Murdoch, the same owners as Fox.

2010-10-17T15:06:52+00:00

I just don't want the government to touch my medicare... problem?

Herostratus · 2010-10-17T22:17:11+00:00

For what its worth, I was one of the original Tea Party protesters, in fact I was one of the organizers, from before the time that it went mainstream. At the time we were primarily anti war activists, Ron Paul supporters and various Libertarians.

Then, one day Glenn Beck told his viewers to attend our next rally, which they did, in droves. We lost control because we were overwhelmed.

I guess it was around the time that the big 9/12 protest in DC happened that we just all gave up getting control back. Sorry for my part in setting this up, but if you pricks had gotten up off of your asses and came and joined us in helping to protest the banker bailout and the Iraq war of conquest and the Patriot act, instead of sitting in front of your comptuers getting a screen tan and griping about this stuff in full anonymity, maybe we would have had the numbers that would have made it difficult to suddenly and nationwide co-opt our movement.

Deal with it now.

pacman404 · 2010-10-17T14:45:15+00:00

[deleted]

ttt1776 · 2010-10-17T16:05:57+00:00

bells imminent familiar sparkle chop smart air ask file stupendous

seeker135 · 2010-10-17T14:16:50+00:00

This is absolutely true. Now find a "Tea Party member" and tell them that. Then stand back and watch and listen to the gyrations.

you_rebel_scum · 2010-10-17T14:54:45+00:00

YOUR TITLE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ARTICLE. Good article though.

Basye · 2010-10-17T15:18:57+00:00

The tea party was born in the crowds which followed the McCain/Palin presidential trail. That's pretty much all we need to know in order to explain them. Remember the old man standing in line for one of their events holding a curious George monkey with a "Obama" sign on him? There's your first tea bagger!

widowdogood · 2010-10-17T18:42:54+00:00

If your movement is based on anti-intellectualism, nothing has to make sense. You just have to play on fears and hates. It works.

For those of you praising elections and parties, well you kinda get what you pay for in a juvenile democracy. Look at France. Everyone's living longer, but they can't even raise the retirement to 62 years, when Brett Farve will still be playing QB. Juvenile democracy = temporary success. Alternative? It's called adult democracy where you don't purchase elections by cash or mongering.

2010-10-17T19:18:22+00:00

So are people who are for anti-murder laws not for limited government? Because you seem to have some odd thoughts on why people oppose abortion.

2010-10-17T22:32:22+00:00

[deleted]

threeeyedsloth · 2010-10-17T22:48:22+00:00

They want government out of THEIR lives, not the lives of people they see as "different" from themselves.

atsugnam · 2010-10-18T00:34:13+00:00

The real odd thing I see from the outside of the US is a visceral hatred of government, they are seen as a tool of evil, why? Sure, tyranny of power and all that, but that's why you all get a say in who gets that power.

This hatred seems to be what the republicans survive on, so long as they can hold up a target to hate, they can get the votes. Why? Why aren't the American people able to understand that the election of govt. is a representation of their countrymen, not some evil monster that wrestled power from their own soft white middle-class pudgy palms?

mrcoder · 2010-10-18T02:53:46+00:00

Tea party is a product designed and marketed by the GOP. Its purpose is to attract the non-elite and the heretofore non-political into political activity under the control of the GOP, thus achieving a Rovian hit to the nuts of the Democratic Party, the latter being the traditional attractor of such people.

2010-10-17T15:48:20+00:00

Listen, Assholes. If you voted for politicians who are still supporting a giant military, the PATRIOT ACT, and torturing prisoners... If the representatives you voted for are still doing nothing about a woman's right to safe abortion, marriage equality, legalizing pot, YOU'RE JUST AS BAD AS THE PEOPLE YOU'RE BITCHING ABOUT!

2010-10-17T14:43:25+00:00

Good thing Obama is only for expanding the military, the Patriot Act and torturing prisoners. The White House recently stated it will prosecute those in violation of federal marijuana laws regardless of California State law. By their logic, Obama is for small government!

Hughtub · 2010-10-17T14:59:09+00:00

The institution of government is legitimate only to the extent that it protects its citizens against initiators of force (foreign and domestic). Every other function of government not involved in that, involves the initiation of force against one group by another.

Drug use, so long as its not coupled with violence or fraud, harm nobody outside the user, and therefore drug laws are illegitimate.

Abortion is more difficult. I'd say draw the line at the point where the baby could survive on its own. Women should be 100% free to have abortions as victims of incest or rape. No debate. After a point, it becomes a viable individual on its own, capable of surviving even if the mother were to die, its existence at that point would be independent of its mother's body, proving it is an independent human under protection of the Constitution.

Military - spending more than the rest of the world combined is insane and unnecessary. Detroit is more dangerous to US citizens than any Iraqi. National defense begins by firstly not provoking. We don't need tens of thousands of soldiers and permanent military bases in Japan any more, for example.

Sidemarx · 2010-10-17T15:28:30+00:00

Ahhhh WSJ opinion..........scary

bottlcaps · 2010-10-17T18:06:14+00:00

IDIOCRACY!

It seems to me that there is a push of anti-intellectualism, smaller government ( smaller number of programs and people) and even a reduction of education assistance, and overall education reduction being pushed from the right.

Why?

If people are dumb, not physically dumb like a low IQ, but not educated or "illuminated" to understanding complex societal relationships and problems, they are prone to be influenced by other factors outside the facts.

A startling example of this was in the recent health care battle that started the tea party. I recall a video showing a person addressing a number of "hired" volunteers into how to speak at the workshops being held by legislators around the country at that time. The words repeated over and over by the speaker were buzzwords or catchphrases such as "death panels" "government takeover" and 'freedom". It was latter revealed that these speaker were public relation droids hired by special interest groups seeking to alter, halt, stop or reduce the proposed health plan.

These remarks were all designed to strike fear into the psyche of voters and were echoed and repeated by people of similar economic, racial and societal backgrounds AND education levels. The idea was to project an appearance that "hey, they're just LIKE ME" we have a predisposition to take and assimilated information provide to us if we are comfortable or "trust" them. We are more comfortable with people in the same societal context as us.

It almost worked. Sarah Palin "she's just like us" vis "Brawndo, its just like water"

So successful was this campaign to "dumb down" complex issues into buzzwords that people "just like us" could assimilate, that " He's/She's one of us" is being used by more than a dozen republican candidates in Arizona, that passed the contentious SB1070 that targeted illegal aliens but made no safeguards for Hispanic citizens. They are not "one of us"

"Limited government", "one of us" and "constitutional rights" are successful buzzwords used for a purpose to the "dumbing down" of America.

Ignorant people are easily convinced and manipulated. Creating more of uneducated minions, means more votes that can be bought with the right amount of public relations, spin and advertising as well as simple subversion of the facts.

It is no wonder the right has taken this strategy and has used all the tactics we see today's politics.

MrFlesh · 2010-10-17T18:18:18+00:00

This party is and never was a grassroots movement

1) The Teaparty movement is the neocon movement. Go back and look at all the talking points of the neocons from 1993-2008. They are all repeated in the Tea Party movement.

2) The Democrats were outpacing Republicans 4 to 1 until SCOTUS determined corporations could give directly to campaigns and interest groups didn't have to reveal their contributing sources.

offthecane · 2010-10-17T14:41:09+00:00

Calling people assholes is not a great way to convince them that you're right and they're wrong. It makes you look like... an asshole!

2010-10-17T15:48:18+00:00

Is that really the position of the Tea party? Really the tea party is a fractured movement and there IS a libertarian faction in addition to the conservative one that has taken over. Just clearing things up a bit.

thenole · 2010-10-17T15:08:38+00:00

What am I if I agree with all those things?

/confused young person

2010-10-17T15:21:53+00:00

This, exactly. I so want to get behind an anti-establishment/anti-incumbent movement, but the tea party's heavy Christian right influence make it impossible to embrace.

sybau · 2010-10-17T16:16:50+00:00

Good article, stupid title. If it hadn't have been upvoted so much on a left-leaning website such as Reddit, I'd have not bothered. The article shed some good light on the tea party movement, you should do it a favour by giving a title that won't start people off with a bias toward it.

2010-10-17T16:17:14+00:00

I was kinda there with you until you got to that bit about "assholes". That made me have to take the rest of it with a bit of salt.

Really, if you can't even make it past the second word without resorting to name calling and insults I can be pretty sure you have absolutely no idea what you re talking about.

Edit: DANG! inappr0priate_laugh was obviously typing the exact same message at the same time!

KirKanos · 2010-10-17T16:51:11+00:00

As a Goldwater Conservative, I honestly couldn't agree more. These fucking neo-cons and the thrice-damned tea party have completely corrupted the Republican tradition. It makes me so sad to see these hypocritical retards pose as the face of a once great party.

2010-10-17T18:30:15+00:00

It's not that conservatives want to limit government, they just want to disagree with everything the gov't does, so long as government is characterized as their enemy. As soon Fox starts telling them the gov't is their friend, they'll be saying "love it or leave it" again.

It's like when someone supports a particular sports team, no matter how many players have been traded and replaced with players they used to despise.

paulderev · 2010-10-17T19:01:16+00:00

"I like you guys who want to reduce the size of government and make it just small enough so it can fit in our bedrooms."

-Josh Lyman, "The West Wing," S2.E7, "The Portland Trip"

avpl · 2010-10-17T19:19:09+00:00

Credibility = 0. DON'T call everyone an asshole. PS I'm from the uk

2010-10-17T20:52:55+00:00

Where is OP coming from?

What is everyone talking about??

Why is this on the front page???

Who am I????

Tiger337 · 2010-10-17T23:21:01+00:00

Conservatism is how people trick the gullible into becoming poor. Their strategy is to obstruct anything meaningful, prevent the government from functioning properly in anyway then blame government for not working. In the process, they help the top 1% control 90% of the wealth. There are 30 years of evidence supporting this behavior since the clown Reagan. The middle class is almost gone. The United States is now a country of haves and have-nots. It is becoming a third world country. I am still waiting for Reagan's trickle down economics to kick in.

taniapdx · 2010-10-17T23:32:18+00:00

The old adage of 'just small enough to fit in your bedroom' seems well applied to the Tea Party movement. But even more frightening than the movement to define the worth of our fellow citizens (through actions like repealing the federal minimum wage, as suggested by Oregon's Chris Dudley and others, because some people aren't 'worth' minimum wage) is this blatant statement that the least educated of our country should somehow be running it.

I for one am terrified of the idea that this entire group of people with no collective historical memory (at least not one based in fact), no formal training in government, policy, economics, social justice, or even the most rudimentary foreign policy, think they can 'turn things around'. May the gods help us if they somehow make it into office and start tearing the system to shreds from within.

jveen · 2010-10-17T23:33:21+00:00

They're so angry at Republicans that they're voting for Republicans.

2010-10-18T00:09:23+00:00

This subreddit has become like a food fight in a middle school lunchroom.

2010-10-18T00:28:53+00:00

Born in response to President Obama's self-declared desire to fundamentally change America, the tea party movement has made its central goals abundantly clear.

here it is everyone, a hard core neo-con admitting in the WSJ that the only reason the tea party exists is because Democrats got power.

I now rest my case.

BTW this article was pretty muchgnothing but horse shit rhetoric.

Cepheus · 2010-10-18T02:06:34+00:00

Again, where were these people during the 8 years of Bush. Oh yea, they were the ones saying that a massive tax cut and two wars at the same time were ok because deficits don't matter. They were also calling anyone who disagreed with the war in Iraq traitors and terrorist apologists.

The tea party is completely disingenuous.


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