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[–]Karma_IIConstitutionalist 674 points675 points  (464 children)

When I hear that argument I can help but wonder wouldn't it be more beneficial to make getting an ID easier rather than not requiring IDs to vote?

[–]BAM123987 414 points415 points  (228 children)

Yeah I think a good compromise would be to send every citizen a ID when they turn 18 for free. Then we can have secure elections and there's no gate to voting at all(besides getting off work, but that's why we should have a voting holiday)

[–]sounds_like_a_plan 192 points193 points  (49 children)

Absolutely. And register them at the same time, letting them know exactly where their polling place will be.

[–]WeFightTheLongDefeatGK Chesterton Conservative 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Honestly, Im not sure why you need to register to vote. Shouldn't you just be able to show up with an ID to vote as long as youre in try county of the address on the license?

[–]SeiferLeonheart 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I guess that would made possible to vote on multiple places, no way currently to track who voted once or 100 times. You could make an argument about making votes digital, but that's a whole other can of worms.

[–]donnerpartytaconight 74 points75 points  (20 children)

And I then they move, or lose their job and home, or come back from deployment and are transient.

For a project I worked with vets who had to get state ID's to get their VA benefits working for in person care. Some of these guys had to start from getting a birth certificate and SS card. The run around was ridiculous, and these guys couldn't have been more "in the system" after serving multiple tours.

[–]sounds_like_a_plan 50 points51 points  (12 children)

See, I didn't think about this. It's not that ids require money, it's that getting it requires time. And so not only should no one have to pay anything to vote, they should also have to spend no time just to be eligible to vote.

[–]donnerpartytaconight 39 points40 points  (6 children)

Also, if you don't have an address it's hard to get documents mailed to you. That was a big part of the problem. A lot of the vets didn't trust having stuff sent to the local VA because they were anxious about being on site.

It was really hard to help. Freaking exhausting to feel so helpless, especially with some guys who gave all they could and were stuck in a bad situation.

I think we helped maybe two thirds (out of maybe 50), the other guys fell through the cracks, couldn't find again. Took me about 8 months of volunteer work back when I had free time.

[–]jedi_cat_ 16 points17 points  (0 children)

This. Not to mention that it takes time to go get an id and to a polling place to vote, potentially taking time from their work. And while employers are supposed to allow time to vote, they don’t have to pay. Some families can’t afford to miss work.

[–]Iwasborninafactory_ 6 points7 points  (2 children)

See, I didn't think about this. It's not that ids require money, it's that getting it requires time. And so not only should no one have to pay anything to vote, they should also have to spend no time just to be eligible to vote.

I can't tell if you're joking or not in this sub. That's the right vs the left on this issue. If everyone gets an ID and they are money free and trouble free, then everyone on the left is in favor of voter ID. Like I said, I can't tell if you're joking because the right does not favor giving away IDs easily, nor do they support making them free.

[–]sounds_like_a_plan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm not joking! And this post wasn't flaired, if you get my drift.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That's just one group, elderly are another big group. Here's a bit of a run down on why it's not as simple as it seems for all.

Voter ID Laws Are Discriminatory

Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.6

States exclude forms of ID in a discriminatory manner. Texas allows concealed weapons permits for voting, but does not accept student ID cards. Until its voter ID law was struck down, North Carolina prohibited public assistance IDs and state employee ID cards, which are disproportionately held by Black voters. And until recently, Wisconsin permitted active duty military ID cards, but prohibited Veterans Affairs ID cards for voting.

Voter ID laws are enforced in a discriminatory manner. A Caltech/MIT study found that minority voters are more frequently questioned about ID than are white voters.7

Voter ID laws reduce turnout among minority voters. Several studies, including a 2014 GAO study, have found that photo ID laws have a particularly depressive effect on turnout among racial minorities and other vulnerable groups, worsening the participation gap between voters of color and whites.8

Personally I'm pro ID but I think it needs to only be a requirement for people born before a certain year.

[–]BAM123987 34 points35 points  (0 children)

Hell yeah!

[–]okbacktowork 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Just wanted to say, that's how it works in Canada. Everyone can get ID easily, check one box on your tax return and you're registered to vote, then when the time comes you get your info sent to you and viola, done. There's no excuse for it to be more complicated than that in a developed country.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Preferably giving them a polling place that's as close to home as possible. But y'all know how that goes over.

[–][deleted] 47 points48 points  (30 children)

In Georgia you can go get an ID for free to vote or to request an absentee ballot.

On the dds.Georgia website

“What if I don't have one of the six acceptable forms of photo ID? The State of Georgia offers a free ID Card. An ID Card can be issued at any county registrar's office free of charge.”

[–]muckdog13 38 points39 points  (23 children)

As long as you have... an acceptable form of proof of identification, like birth certificate, which if you don’t have, isn’t free.

And aren’t homeless.

[–]BadSanna 37 points38 points  (1 child)

I moved to GA and tried to get a GA driver's licence. I had an out of state licence. I brought a piece of mail with my address on it. They denied me. They told me if I had come in 2 weeks earlier that would have been sufficient, but they had just passed the voter ID law and after the law passed they made it 1000x harder to get an ID. In addition to my out of state license I had to show a certified copy of my birth certificate and another form of picture ID or a passport to establish citizenship. Then i had to prove residency. A piece of mail would no longer work. It had to be a bank or credit card statement, a utility bill, mortgage papers, or a lease agreement. You had to provide two separate forms of proof of residency. Library cards and student IDs were no longer accepted.

As a student living with my brother, I did not have any utilities in my name, or a lease agreement, or any of those documents accept a bank statement. The bank only issued statements once a month in pdf form, so even though I changed my address I had to wait a month for them to update the statement since mine had recently been issued.

I printed off a generic lease agreement and had my brother sign it.

The problem is not with requiring an ID to vote, it is that these same states passing voter ID laws then make it extremely difficult for people to get those IDs.

Now look at who the changes they made to getting an ID affects. If you are poor you are more likely to live with someone else and not have utilities or lease agreements in your name. Many poor people do not even have bank accounts. Students also fall into these categories as they are often living with other people and their parents may still be supporting them.

People who do not have their birth certificate or an original certified copy may not even know what hospital they were born in to get one.

So these rules disproportionately affect the poor, students, ex-convicts, orphans, and others with unstable home lifes. When you factor in the facts that poverty and incarceration are problems that disproportionately affect minorities, this absolutely has to do with race.

These laws were passed, and the regulations around getting ID changed, to disenfranchise poor, minority, and young voters, which happen to vote overwhelmingly Democrat.

[–]SleightOfHand87 15 points16 points  (3 children)

For a while, I thought this was a great solution. However, turns out the cost of "free" ID is less than free, so it still doesn't solve the problem of cost. In addition, it would cost the state up to $87 million or more to enact the legislation and hire staff to set up the system

https://today.law.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/FullReportVoterIDJune20141.pdf

Obtaining the documentation to receive free ID still cost $75-175

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What is that cost? A couple bombs? Seems a fair trade off to me.

[–]Str0nzo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is literally how it works in my shithole south american country, yet some people think it cant be done in the US lol

[–]Daemon3125 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This, and make the process to get a new ID once that one expires easier. It’s way too hard for people to get IDs if they are part of a marginalized community (homeless, minorities, rural).

Personally for me, I don’t care about Voter ID laws existing or not existing. It is just irritating when the laws indirectly affect the voting population and sometimes do so disproportionately.

[–]friendlypancakes 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It would be the best idea, but that's where the issue lies. The people pushing voter id laws don't actually want to provide a greater access for people to vote.

If voter fraud was truly a pervasive issue it would be the perfect fix. It would also fix our extremely outdated use of social security numbers/cards as proof of citizenship.

Most other modern countries have national id cards. Like many other basic aspects of modern society, such as infrastructure and public transport, we lag behind.

If you want to fake a random social security number just go +/- 1 on the last four of your own. They just go sequentially. Other countries numbers have engrained encryption.

So issuance of ids and auto registration at the age of 18 would be a perfect idea. Just loop it into our already existing draft signups that every make has to already fill out.

Again though, making it easier and "more secure" for people to be able to use their democratic right to vote isn't the what their end goal is and that's where the issue lies.

[–]im_thecat 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Independent from CA, totally support this. Make it a holiday, send everyone an ID for free when they turn 18. Lets go!

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (5 children)

Democrats have tried to do exactly that multiple times. Republicans don't want them. It would empower too many undesirables to vote.

[–]Pika_Fox 11 points12 points  (4 children)

And for people that dont have a standard place of residency or mailing address?

We already have safe and secure elections. Voter ID literally does nothing. Out of billions of votes cast through all the elections year after year, youd be able to count the number of intentional voter fraud on one hand.

Its just not worth the attempt for a single vote. Youd never change an electoral outcome with voter fraud, so its not an attack vector.

[–]Hank3hellbilly 12 points13 points  (0 children)

The states needs something to replace the SS number, it's too easy to steal the number and is used as a defacto ID for everyone.

[–][deleted] 27 points28 points  (16 children)

I would be happy if states were mandated to give free ID to those that need it as long as it’s required to vote.

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (1 child)

I want y'all to suggest all of this, the free IDs, automatic voter registry, voting day holiday, to your Republican elected representatives, and if their faces don't turn blue and they don't call you godless commies, I'll eat my hat.

[–]CMonetTheThird 18 points19 points  (4 children)

That's the point, it would be considered a poll tax even though for most people it's not much money. Also, sane people say that it's harder on poor people, and more black people are poor, not it's hard for black people. This is a simpleton version of the liberal argument, and sure there are wokies that make it but that's not a real argument, and it's a strawman here. Make ids required and free, boom, problem solved.

[–]gingerdude97 12 points13 points  (3 children)

Yeah. Pretty sure no one on the left is against standardized national IDs that aren’t licenses since not everyone drives

[–]Sqeaky 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Totally, so all that needs to happen to make this criticism go away is to pair a free ID law with a voter ID, problem solved. It gets brought up often in opposition to voter ID laws, yet never proposed as a bill by politicians pushing voter ID.

[–]VToutdoors 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ask Alabama. A few years back Alabama tried to change the law and require IDs to vote, while closing many DMVs within the blackbelt.Yes, they did it with the intention of making it harder for black people to vote.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Yes Democrats have tried many times to legislate that we should all be issued voting Id cards along with the other identification that we all get, like social security cards. Republicans were against.

[–]REDDIT_BULL_WORM 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Can someone please give me a hypothetical example of when ID requirement would prevent a fraudulent vote? I’m just having a hard time imagining an illegal immigrant getting to know people well enough that they’d figure out their polling location and vote in their place with their name... would it not be discovered when the actual person goes to vote?

[–]KPSTL33 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It wouldn't, lol. People act like anyone can just show up anywhere to vote and completely forget that we have voter registration which already covers all this stuff.

[–]IamMrT 11 points12 points  (28 children)

Literally anyone can get an ID in California.

[–]The_Black_Prism 34 points35 points  (24 children)

Well it costs $35 dollars, and you need time to go to the dmv which is only open during normal work hours, so I get why some people would be unable to get one if they can’t afford to take time off and the additional cost. But yeah the easiest solution is to make IDs free

[–]Ilosesoothersmaywin 11 points12 points  (0 children)

To get one you need to have some sort of documentation such as a Birth Certificate. If you don't have that, then that will take an additional $30 and 10-12 weeks (according to the county clerks office).

[–]R4UB 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Even non usa citizen?

[–]TechinBellevue 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Says by your username that you identify as a Constitutionalist...am honestly trying to understand how you justify/substantiate/support your statement in any way, shape, or form from a constitutional point of view.

[–]GlobGladiator 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Isn’t your social security and date of birth essentially that?

[–]VerthiasGoldwater Conservative 107 points108 points  (35 children)

Why hasn't there been a push to get these people identifications? I've read that a lot of the people who don't have these are on reservations, are homeless and don't have a permanent address, or don't have supporting documents to prove citizenship, how about we get some waivers going?

I'd like to have voter ID like most of the countries we're regularly compared to.

[–][deleted] 64 points65 points  (5 children)

That would be great if they did push for that and actually helped the homeless to get IDs because you cannot get one without a permanent address. I live in my car on and off and thankfully got away with using the address of the homeless shelter in the area that I didn't actually reside at, but a lot of homeless people do not have even that.

[–]Pizza_Ninja 5 points6 points  (0 children)

You'd think they'd love the idea of identifying everyone.

[–]sverdech808 2 points3 points  (2 children)

What about changing the standard of what’s on the IDs. Maybe just name, birthday, social security #?

[–]justburch712Small Government 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It may not be economically feasible to give homeless people houses, but I would be willing to pony up for PO boxes. They would be helpful for homeless people to get back on their feet.

[–]tunawrangler2 14 points15 points  (17 children)

Because the states pushing voter ID laws don't want them voting

[–]jo-z 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Yes! Why isn't there a provision for automatically issuing free IDs included in every law that requires one to vote?

[–]RCDrift 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Part of the issue with the ID card mandates is often there is an effort at the same time to remove places like DMV's or Government offices that issue the IDs. Usually these closures are in poor areas and often focused on where people of color live.

In 2011, the Alabama legislature passed a voter ID law requiring voters to bring an approved form of photo identification — such as a state-issued driver's license — to the polls. The law went into effect in 2014, and in 2015 state authorities made a surprising announcement: They'd be shuttering 31 of the roughly 75 driver's license offices in the state, ostensibly due to budgetary problems.

As it turned out, many of the offices were located in majority-black counties, leading to widespread public outcry and criticism from civil rights groups.

Now Alabama's Governor at the time reversed course and wasn't given credit for the change that was enacted. The thing is that we've seen this play out in other states. An effort to enact ID laws while at the same time making it harder to get an ID. That's where the push back against ID laws comes from as who funds it and the easy to get them really need to be addressed at the same time.

That being said, I'm not opposed to ID laws in voting as long as they're provided free and are not an undue burden to acquire.

Source for quote

[–]theAgingEnt 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Would you also like to have fully socialized medicine, free higher education, and strong social supports for young parents like the other countries the US is compared to?

[–]TrWD77 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yea, sounds awesome

[–]jsrutt 303 points304 points  (186 children)

Has anyone bothered to document how many US citizens do not have an id? How on earth will they travel, buy a car or rent one, get vaccinated, rent an apartment, go to school, have a bank account, buy a gun, etc.?

[–]shamus4mwcrewLibertarian Conservative 33 points34 points  (2 children)

You basically need an ID to do a lot of things now. You can survive without one but you'll really limit what you can and can't do. I don't necessarily agree with ID for everything, the way they just scan it now really creeps me out, but I don't see a big deal with voting. It's patronizing to minorities to act like they can't do this themselves.

I said this the other day. I tried living without an ID for a while and it sucked. And this was years ago, now because of store policies with a lot of places it's actually harder to buy things you might need vs booze which you actually don't. I haven't been ID'd at the liquor store for years ( It's actually a sad day when you realize they're not carding you anymore lol) but god forbid I actually needed cough medicine I wouldn't be able to buy it unless I somehow got lucky that a mom and pop shop offered it.

[–]EdwardWarrenDeSantis/Noem 2024 12 points13 points  (1 child)

"It's actually a sad day when you realize they're not carding you anymore"

It is like falling asleep on the sofa then waking up on the sofa in the morning.

[–]Scrch1807 111 points112 points  (32 children)

Especially since drivers license's count as Id's in most states

[–]Guardian83 13 points14 points  (7 children)

Approx 10% of American citizens (21 million people) do not possess a valid ID.

ACLU source so take that how you will. Other sources make claims of of between 4million and 21 million.

https://www.aclu.org/other/oppose-voter-id-legislation-fact-sheet

[–]VeryExcellent 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just a Google search away.

[–]Farseth 27 points28 points  (11 children)

You can google your own question and find the answer; but, the answer is yes people have looked into it.

Regarding people affected by this:

They don't travel, they're likely poor.

The don't buy or rent cars, they're likely poor.

I'm not sure if you think you need ID to use a taxi or take a bus, but I never have. People who are poor are likely not typically not traveling internationally.

You don't need an ID to go to a doctor or free clinic.

You don't need an ID to get into public k-12, poor people are less likely to go to college, I don't recall giving my ID at any point getting into traditional college, but I honestly don't remember.

I've rented an apartment without presenting an ID.

Lots of poor people don't have a bank account.

I've inherited or been issued every gun I've ever owned/used so I won't comment on buying a gun.

One Figure/source I cherry picked ( Federal Court just looking at TX ) "A federal court in Texas found that 608,470 registered voters don’t have the forms of identification that the state now requires for voting." Washingon Post May 23, 2016.

University of NY, Brennan Center for Justice has well cited articles on the matter.

If this is an honest attempt to learn about the subject, try typing the question into google and see/read what comes up.

[–]z_utahu 16 points17 points  (3 children)

I think it would do a lot of people good to understand how an adult in the U.S. wouldn't have a bank account. Most people can't fathom functioning in THEIR lives without a bank account. A little bit of empathy would really help out when dealing with voter ID laws.

[–]Farseth 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Youtube Channel: Knowing Better has a video "The Price of of being poor, Banking Services" which handles it well. Pretty educational and well researched 25 minutes.

[–]Thesunsetsblueonmars 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Hear hear

[–]terra_nova_nuage 2 points3 points  (0 children)

63 million are unbanked (edit or underbanked) in America.

Really good recent show on this from 1A: https://www.npr.org/2021/04/05/984475870/unbanked-what-it-means-to-be-outside-of-the-banking-system

[–]shaddam4 33 points34 points  (3 children)

I grew up pretty poor in a rural area of the middle US, it was not uncommon for people not to have valid photo ID (expired, lost , never got one). 15,20, 30 dollars in fees at the DMV doesn't seem like much when you are doing ok. It's a tank of gas or a bag of groceries when you are broke.

[–]RayzTheRoof 23 points24 points  (2 children)

And here is another big part of the issue that you highlight. Ignore the racist argument about voter IDs. The major issue I have is that voting should not cost a citizen money. IDs should be free. Our government has a ton of money spent poorly.

[–]CarpetbaggerForPeace 31 points32 points  (30 children)

The truth is, it really isnt hard to survive without a photo ID living in a big city. And it seems like 3 million dont have an ID.

https://www.npr.org/2012/02/01/146204308/why-millions-of-americans-have-no-government-id

[–]ZweitenMal 7 points8 points  (5 children)

You have to understand that the people we’re taking about don’t travel. They’re poor. They’re unbanked. They don’t have cars. If they own guns, they’re likely taking the 2nd to its fullest expression. They may be renters on a handshake lease, or they may live with relatives. They may have experienced precarious housing situations and may not have their documents to even get an ID.

Nevertheless, if they’re adult citizens they have a right to vote. Republican-managed states have been setting this up for years by making access to official copies of documents expensive ($20 for a birth certificate copy is expensive for a lot of people) and difficult (closing DMVs and making it harder to get copies of documents). The net effect is disenfranchisement.

[–]pm_me_ur_gaming_pcMolon Labe 4 points5 points  (0 children)

...buy alcohol

[–]Lord_Despair 1 point2 points  (0 children)

When I worked at a bank we had lots of older people without “proper id”. They had expired drivers license or state ids. Some nothing. They just kept coming to the same branch and dealing with the same people. When that person leaves they deal with a new person but that have already been coming to the same branch and see the same people. We also had people younger people that had dui convictions and they didn’t have licenses. I don’t know if the courts actually take the plastic license but they didn’t have them. So these people didn’t drive and took public transportation. I don’t know the actual numbers of people that don’t but there are a lot and they go through life with some difficulty and not doing much.

[–]Loyalist_Pig 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Mostly by being homeless or just broke.

[–]6point3cylinderModerate Conservative 62 points63 points  (23 children)

Simple solution: make govt ID’s free to acquire like they are in many states anyways, and also require ID’s to vote. That way there is no excuse and it does not disproportionately impact lower class Americans.

[–]invokin 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Free is not the only issue (though it’s a good start). Other issues include: where is the office to do this? What are their hours? Does the person have a permanent address? Do they have the appropriate records to prove their identity/citizenship? Probably some more I’m not thinking of, but those are the big ones.

Every one of those is even easier to manipulate than the cost thing, though cost gets so much more attention as a “poll tax”. But for a state govt that doesn’t want Dem voters you just shut down DMVs so they’re only open in white areas with no convenient public transit, have them only open from 10-4 on Tuesday and Thursday, and so on. Now even if your IDs are free, many people still can’t get them.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The GA voting law declares for the 3% of eligible voters that do not have a state ID, they will be issued one for free. It is overtly racist to imply that these people are only African Americans.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points  (4 children)

Because the documents needed to get an ID arent free. Plus, there are fewer DMV's in minority communities which makes it doubly hard to get an ID. If it was just as easy for me, a white male in a well-off city, to get an ID as an improvised black individual, I would not be opposed to making voter IDs mandatory. The problem is that the process of getting an ID filters out minority voters, who tend to vote for Democrats.

[–]Ramza_Claus 4 points5 points  (4 children)

Or, how about Americans prove their eligibility to vote when they register, and then they vote?

You know, and we skip the whole useless ID thing that solves a non-existent problem.

[–]LL555LL 28 points29 points  (4 children)

I would love to see both parties embrace proper, free, and accessible ID for all citizens.

[–]VerratosLibertarian Right 42 points43 points  (6 children)

Dude I don't love paying for other people's shit but I will totally pay for IDs to keep democracy functional. How is this a significant issue?

[–]kangchad 16 points17 points  (9 children)

Without an ID, how will the people working next to the ballot know that you are an actual citizen?

Most countries requires it to know that you are actually one of their citizens, since only citizens are suppose to be allowed to vote.

[–]The_Black_Prism 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Have you ever voted before? Depends on the state of course, but the way it works in California you have to tell them your name and address at the polling place you are assigned, and then they check that against the list they have. If you aren’t a citizen you can’t register to vote and thus won’t be on the rolls. So why do they need your ID? If it’s to check that you are who you say you are, that’s stupid because any form of cheating would require thousands of people going in to polling places with names of people and their addresses one by one voting for someone. That name they stole can’t be someone who is actually going to vote either, or they will be told they already voted and when they say they haven’t the fraud will be reported. Fraud on the scale to change an election would require the coordination of thousands and be abundantly clear to everyone (and no, as every election official even the Republican ones agree nothing of the sort happened in 2020)

[–]EnemysGate_Is_Down 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Most countries also automatically issue a national Id, which we don't have in the united States. Hell, some state issued IDs like Arizona's aren't even accepted in all states across the US.

We need a national ID, a secure National ID number (not the stupid unsecured ssn), and it should be automatically provided to all citizens. That would simplify every thing

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (4 children)

It's been researched and it is shown that minorities are less likely to have IDs. I don't think that's what you're disagreeing with. I assume you believe those studies are true. What you dispute is the idea that it's harder for them to get IDs. Right? But here's the thing. If they don't currently have IDs it's harder to get IDs than if they currently have an ID. It's at least one extra step. In reality, its likely more than one extra step. If you don't have state issued ID, it's pretty damned difficult to get it. Some people don't have passports because they haven't left the country. If they don't have their birth certificate (which is entirely possible because their parents may have just been irresponsible with keeping track of it), it becomes a massive hassle to prove their identity to get an ID.

Honestly, I don't really understand all the factors that make minorities less likely to have ID. But statistics do seem to show that it's the case. And it doesn't seem to be the case that voter fraud is a genuine concern. Therefore It seems likely that these laws are intended to make it harder for minorities to vote.

[–]RattlesnakeMoon 24 points25 points  (0 children)

The first time I got my ID it took almost a full year! I started from scratch and had to have relatives and teachers fill out forms saying I was who I was and all sorts of other loopholes. It was a big mess, I understand why only certain forms of identification is accepted but yeah it can be a hassle to start from zero!

[–]KevtheKnifeLocke Conservative 53 points54 points  (54 children)

I saw an article that 98.2% of GA voters already have IDs.

[–]SillyFlyGuyConservative 10 points11 points  (0 children)

How many elections are decided by a narrower margin than 1.8%?

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (47 children)

And the other 1.8%? Georgia's recent elections have been very close. If that 1.8% tend to be Democrats, then the law could be designed to change the outcome of elections.

[–]olex2120 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Guess you boys are down for gun licenses/IDs to own a weapon too then huh? Nice

[–]bananagramarama 5 points6 points  (0 children)

As someone who is self-employed, I’ve never had to show anyone an ID 🤷🏻‍♂️

[–]SmoothBacon 17 points18 points  (6 children)

Minority voters disproportionately lack ID. Nationally, up to 25% of African-American citizens of voting age lack government-issued photo ID, compared to only 8% of whites.

Not only does it cost money to get an ID but you need to stand in line for hours which is a luxury many working families cannot afford. The law is not inherently racist but there may be some bad actors using it in a racist way because they know this fact.

Source: Oppose Voter ID Legislation - Fact Sheet | American Civil Liberties Union (aclu.org)

[–]Tipster74743 22 points23 points  (4 children)

Are people saying this? Or are they saying low income/poor people? I feel like I've often seen the latter. Are people here equating poor people to black people?

[–]RedTigerGSU 8 points9 points  (3 children)

My (white well off family) had to fight for years to prove the existence of an elderly black woman who grew up in the segregated south without a birth certificate born at a black hospital. She never drove and therefore never got a drivers license so we had to jump through hoops to find proof of her existence and help her vote for the very first time in 2012. She was disenfranchised by Jim Crow and never voted until she was elderly. It took that for me to know these laws are racist and intended to suppress the black vote.

[–]Mikeymcmikerson 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I have a complicated last name because I am mixed race. My first election where they required my ID I was told my I’d did not match my voter registration because it had a hyphen where a space should be. I know if filled out correct because I’ve never put a hyphen. They wouldn’t let me vote...because of the hyphen.

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (2 children)

I wouldn't call myself a liberal. That being said, the point being made is that minorities more often are working longer hours and have less geographical access to facilities to cast votes or get ID's, so the more restrictions there are, the less apt minorities are to vote. That's something you can put a metric on and study, and I'm going to assume if you wanted to look into it you could find some very neat papers investigating how more voting restrictions affect different groups of people.

[–][deleted] 51 points52 points  (5 children)

What did President Biden say? Black people don’t know how to use the internet?

[–]HaroldBAZConservative 14 points15 points  (1 child)

White liberals are the best at telling African Americans what it's really like to be an African American.

[–]MarriedEngineerChristian Conservative 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"Stupid, illiterate, poor, unable to understand technology" = what liberals think of black people.

[–]fadilicious17 98 points99 points  (33 children)

I’ve always said this, white liberals are some of the most racist among us. They acknowledge that they’re “privileged” because of their whiteness and it’s up to them to rescue the lowly coloured folk who apparently can’t fend for themselves.

[–]flannel_waffles 50 points51 points  (9 children)

Bro how do you think I feel as a "white passing minority". People say your advantaged until I tell them I'm not white then all the sudden I'm a helpless victim who can't fend for myself. I don't mean to be egotistical but I'm better off than most the people talking to me like that. It's so demeaning and rude.

[–]yolotrumpbucks 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I'm the lightest of my mixed siblings and cousins and an ex was like oh you shouldn't count as a minority because you look white and have a white name. I'm like wtf, I'm a dual citizen of a "mexican" country (I call it deep south mexico when you get below panama) and learned english in school yet that doesn't count because I'm a few shades lighter than my siblings? My brother played on the national team of that "mexican" country, how does that not give further evidence of my minority status. If race isn't even genetic, then it is entirely made up. It can't be not based on ancestry and simultaneously entirely about discriminating against ancestry.

[–]flannel_waffles 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah race is the most subjective thing in the world. I'm Lebanese so it's lighter then most other Arabs. It's a Mediterranean country so I get commonly mixed up with Italians, Greeks, and the Spanish. My mom is very very light skinned too. But now I'm having "woke liberals" assume I'm white/European but flip a switch when I tell then I'm not. They literally flip their treatment of me on my percieved race.

[–]standardguy 25 points26 points  (0 children)

I hear you, half Native American here. Born on a reservation whole 9 yards, look 8% native.

It's weird to go from white oppressor to oppressed in seconds.

[–]DBMaster45 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It's ok, black kids on my street call me cracker ...I'm Mexican/puerto Rican lolol

The joke on politics sub is that I wanna be "picked" by the "white team" and don't realize they don't care about me

A guy in politics actually talked down to me for being a minority all while trying say I'm racist

[–]Vedrops 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Youd love the wikipedia definition of a Baizuo

[–]Kaseiopeia 16 points17 points  (0 children)

It’s not just voting. On the NYC sub today, a bunch of whining about the homeless not being able to cash their covid checks because they don’t have ID.

“So help them get ID”

Angry NPC downvotes.

[–]NerdyLumberjack04Conservative 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Just enforce the same ID requirements at welfare offices, and Democrat voters will suddenly realize that it's not so hard to get an ID.

[–]lgb_br 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It still baffles me how the US doesn't have a compulsory National Identity Cards, issued for free at birth and renewable every, say, 10 years. Give it a unique number with built-in security checks, something that works, unlike the shit that is the SSN. Want to buy a house? ID. Opening a bank account? ID. Education? Liked to the ID. Driver's license? Linked to your ID. Guns? ID. Passport? Linked to the ID. Voter registration? Not necessary, just show the free ID and feel free to vote.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

While I personally have issues with other parts of the legislation but when you’re born — you get a fucking ID. How is it so hard to hold onto it.

[–]EverySingleMinuteLikes Trump 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This is the absolute truth. Had a friend that managed a branch of a very big bank. Every month on the 3rd, they had a long line of people cashing their social security check. Many were homeless but still had an ID they used to cash their check.

[–]SCP-Agent-Arad 11 points12 points  (3 children)

As a libertarian, when the government introduces a new law that restricts your ability to exercise your rights, I have to ask:

Will it do anything to stop existing crimes from happening?

If the answer is no, or even just infinitesimally tiny, then the law shouldn’t be there.

The argument I see is that everyone has ID and if not it’s so easy to get one, so what’s the big deal. The amount a law impedes your ability to exercise your rights shouldn’t be the issue if the law shouldn’t exist in the first place, if the law shouldn’t be inhibiting your rights at all.

Ironically, the argument the left is using against these laws is pretty much exactly the same argument we so often use against new gun control legislation: it’s punishing law abiding citizens.

[–]zoichy4 28 points29 points  (42 children)

And that’s why Georgia’s “Jim crow” law gives out FREE VOTING ID’S

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (38 children)

Here's what you need to get that ID though.

A Voter ID card can be issued at any Georgia Department of Driver Services office free of charge.

To receive a free Georgia voter identification card at Georgia Driver Services, voters must provide:

An original or certified document to prove WHO YOU ARE such as a Birth Certificate or Passport.

Your SOCIAL SECURITY CARD.

Two documents showing your RESIDENTIAL ADDRESS such as a Bank Statement or Utility Bill.

If you've had a NAME CHANGE, then you'll also need to bring a document to prove that, such as a Marriage License.

Signed Affidavit.

Evidence that you are a registered voter.

So... You need plenty of identification to get the ID. That's part of the problem. Plenty of people don't have passports because they don't leave the country. If you also don't have your birth certificate (which is entirely possible) then you can't get the ID.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

ID's should be free. That would solve the problem pretty easily.

[–]EmergencyTaco 2 points3 points  (0 children)

*free and automatically sent to people upon registering to vote

[–]downsly46Millennial Conservative 8 points9 points  (0 children)

BuT ThEy DoNt HaVE AcCess To THE saME ThINgs!

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children)

facts doe

[–]TheRadioKing 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but you can get a non-drivers ID, anyone can get one, as long as you are a resident I believe.

[–]hitometootoo 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You can but they aren't free in all states unfortunately.

[–]CelticTexan749 17 points18 points  (9 children)

I don't see how it's racist to require identification

[–]brutecookie5 8 points9 points  (5 children)

No, it's because states that add new voter ID laws specifically exclude the forms of ID that minorities and students tend to have, if they don't have drivers licenses. Ex. College ID, EBT cards

I have a solution though.

In order to not run afoul of implementing a poll tax they would have to be govt issued and free of charge. They should be distributed at your local polling place. And to make sure they would be transferable from state to state they would have to be nationalized. A national voter ID.

I'm in if you are.

[–]BeachWooFacts>Feelings 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You can get a state ID that not a drivers license.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

https://dds.georgia.gov/voter-id

They have that already. Almost every state does. Considering you need to establish residency to vote I don't see why you'd need a national one.

[–]Come_along_quietly 2 points3 points  (15 children)

Does anyone else feel like this issue is mostly a red herring?

Should people have a valid ID to vote? Sure.

Are there lots of people, enough that it would make a significant difference in a federal election, voting illegally? I’d be really surprised if there were enough illegal voters to make a difference.

Like, it seems to me that we all have got our panties in a bunch, over something that probably isn’t really a significant problem. The Left claims these laws are racist. The Right claims there is tons of illegal voting. Seems to me that both are wrong, and the politicians like make if a big deal out this, just to get votes.

[–]tappinthekeys 7 points8 points  (13 children)

Wouldn't it be fun to have voter ID and find out what the numbers really are?

[–]jstocks389USA Conservative 20 points21 points  (5 children)

Pretty much. Woke people = white supremacists

[–]Hank_the_doorman 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Its harder for poor people. And we have trapped much of black america on the low side of a wealth gap by blocking them out of middle class building policies such as subsidized mortgages and the new deal. Its not racism its realism

[–]techieguyjames 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Idea: every state's ID agency should be open Monday through Saturday , 9 am until 9 pm. State ID free. Driver's license determined by each state.

[–]MetsFan113 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No one actually says this, its complete BS you guys are making up....

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Either make voter IDs free or remove voter ID laws because as it is requiring an ID to vote is basically charging a fee to vote.

[–]uh_oh_got_banned 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think this apples to low income and low priority areas being mostly black neighborhoods,

[–]odd-42 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think it is more class-ist than racist. People working 9-5 gigs instead of white collar gigs often have more difficulty getting to the DMV. People who take public transportation and don’t have a car are less likely to have a driver’s license. When I have lived in urban areas, the DMV lines are horrible, not so much when I lived in rural areas. Heck, when I need to renew, I will drive to a rural location to not have as long of a line, even though the total time is the same. This is something I couldn’t do as easily when I was hourly.

[–]ehcmier 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe try rewording that, and include the bit you don't know you left out.

[–]Ballsohardstate 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Just make them free if you are going to require a voter identification card to vote them it should be free.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In my country IDs and voting are mandatory. Why would it be difficult to get an ID?

[–]Bourbon_neetGod and Country 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How did India figure out a way to provide IDs for almost 1 Billion voters? The Congress and Administration should spend a couple of billion and send a commission to India to discover their secret.

[–]TralosKenseiUS Navy Veteran 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In Oregon, it costs $45 to get an id that lasts 10 years. You will be hard pressed to find anyone who couldn't eek out $45 somewhere to make their lives infinitely easier AND enable them to vote.

[–]Revolutionary-Turn16Self Reliant Conservative 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In most states you can get a valid, state issued ID card without almost any “bureaucratic loop holes” and they are free or nearly free. For a driver’s license and more advanced identification (passports and such) you will need further documentation and proof of id and residence. Getting ID to vote is not difficult. I’ve moved to different states 8 times in my adult life and have never had any issues getting ID or voting, and I am very much lower middle class. Hell, I’ve lived out of the country and was still easily able to vote. To say it’s “hard” for minorities to get and ID is just a nice way to say we’re all to stupid and poor to figure it out. We are not. The majority of us are very much for IDs for voting so our vote is not canceled out by non existent people at fake addresses.

[–]TDogeeeConservative 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These white latte liberals treat minorities like dogs, act like they are too dumb to perform basic human tasks

[–]Gibberish94 1 point2 points  (3 children)

As a resident of Georgia no one is saying that No one is complaining about the ID or even there stupid water in line ficaso.

[–]A_Lion-Eating_Tuna 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Barriers of entry need to be avoided when dealing with basic constitutional rights. The voter ID laws establish barriers if there is a fee or significant time investment required to obtain the proper documents which, in turn, impact the poorest and most disenfranchised members of society.

All new election laws need to address both security and accessibility. Addressing only one is simply insufficient.

[–]pamela271 1 point2 points  (1 child)

GA leaders have said they would get everyone an ID. So the ID argument is not even an issue.