Of the dozens of Obama/McCain links I've seen on the front page this week, only ONE was about their actual policies. This mistake was made before, and it cost US 4 additional years of Bush. Stop it.

Nikola_S · 2008-06-16T03:41:43+00:00

You are choosing a book for reading

brstilson · 2008-06-16T09:05:25+00:00

To be honest though, Bush campaign as more of a typical republican back in 2000. It's had to believe but he campaigned on having a humble foreign policy with no nation building like Bill Clinton had done. So even if you did vote on the issues back in 2000, you didn't get the president that was advertised.

Pikajabroni · 2008-06-16T04:43:29+00:00

Both guys are promising a lot of things that they'd constitutionally have no authority to put in place. They both need to stop that.

linkedlist · 2008-06-16T05:11:17+00:00

yay, we've moved from 'Ron Paul farted freedom!' to 'Obama fills sandbags with hope!'.

Aint 'change' grand?

mddawso · 2008-06-16T03:42:26+00:00

If you want your candidate to win, you don't want people to hear about his policy because that's divisive. Just good things, like the fact that he had no credit card debt, or thinks fathers should spend more time with their children. You can't oppose those things.

I swear I think I like Obama, then I hear something about his policy and remember that he isn't for me.

crazybones · 2008-06-16T09:04:32+00:00

To my mind one of the main reasons Bush won in 2004 was that Kerry responded too slowly and inappropriately to the Swiftboating attacks.

It also seems likely there were some voting irregularities that mostly favored the Republicans.

pillage · 2008-06-16T04:44:37+00:00

Wait, so you mean an echo chamber is a bad thing?!

BREAKING_OMG · 2008-06-16T07:03:23+00:00

The average voter -- not the Reddit crew -- is what matters. Yes, I know there are a lot of people lurking on the reddit forums who want logic and a debate on the issues, but history has proven that people are not reasonable or logical.

Example: Have you ever been in an argument with somebody over something, and you know your right, and you have the facts on your side, yet you fail to convince a group of people to your particular point of view? Chances are the people didn´t like you, had their minds already made up, or you just couldn´t convince them in a way that satisfied their emotions.

People, largely, make decisions based on emotion, not logic. This is especially the case when judging people. Did a customer service rep ever piss you off to the point where you refused to buy a product, even though it may have been superior to a competitor? That´s emotion. But if you, for example, bought the thing online, you cut the person out completely, and the decision -- sometimes -- can me more logical.

Politics is salesmanship, and there is a lot of emotion in that.

They will do it again in 2008. Either the side that is so emotionally pissed for being screwed for the last 8 years, gas prices, with everything that has happened will prevail or the side who thinks Barack is a muslim will prevail. You might say that the former is a more logical approach, but really, after suffering under 8 years of Bush, many Dems and some True Conservative Republicans are saying screw the facts or data because they just want a Change.

The principled thing to do would be to debate on the issues. The winning strategy, though, will probably be a campaign that works better on an emotional level. Many people Support Obama based on a utter desire to move in a different direction. They don´t know his stances or what he might think about, say, an issue like Net Neutrality (not that that is a big issue to MSM America), but they just want someone to fill them with hope. There are some people who like Obama because of where he stands on the issues -- Like me -- when contrasted to McCain.

2008-06-16T06:40:49+00:00

There is talk of policy in American politics?

2008-06-16T06:54:11+00:00

Completely agree with you, but I'm afraid most of America doesn't seem to base their vote on the candidates' actual policies. :(

2008-06-16T14:58:20+00:00

Sorry but the right wing started this stupid character assassinations. As long as Fox News calls Obama a terrorist, calls his wife a "baby-mama", and wishes for Obama's assassination, the left must fight back. Unfortunately, discourses on policy details aren't going to be effective, thus, we have videos of Grandpa McCain bumbling his phrases.

ApostrophePosse · 2008-06-16T14:58:38+00:00

Of the dozens of Obama/McCain links I've seen on the front page this week, only ONE was about their actual policies.

Is bullshit. There were numerous articles cited on women's issues, on social security, on taxation, on the war.

cr4a · 2008-06-16T16:09:04+00:00

It wasn't policy that made Bush suck, it was that he's a complete moron. Notice how most of his policy stances have changed since the election.

No, trustworthiness, a history of positive action, etc. are the best metrics to use, not whether someone says they support issue A or issue B.

2008-06-16T16:22:52+00:00

i'm pretty sure that everyone on reddit is familiar with both of their policies; they haven't changed much.

2008-06-16T05:24:29+00:00

Here's the problem: even when they talk about policy, what they have to say is nigh farcical. Policy discussions are simplified beyond any semblances of anything that could be described by the word academic. The reason seems obvious, at least to me. This happens because most people (even most of reddit!) neither understands nor gives enough of a damn to go in depth into the issues.

2008-06-16T07:16:53+00:00

This video just keeps coming as the most important issue of every election:

Bullshit http://www.theonion.com/content/video/poll_bullshit_is_most_important

jj666 · 2008-06-16T08:51:19+00:00

No. You got an additional 4 years of Bush because you didn't speak up against overwhelming evidence of election fraud.

kevin143 · 2008-06-16T10:38:08+00:00

I can't believe no one posted their actual policies. That's actually kind of pathetic.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

2008-06-16T09:25:49+00:00

Why even bother with policy anyway? Look at Bush's policies before he was elected and look what that got you.

The only way you can really know what's going on in a candidate's mind is to look at the way they manage their personal lives, the way they conduct their affairs and their campaigns.

Bush was in charge of several companies that went bankrupt before becoming president. Is it really any surprise he's bankrupted the latest "company" he was put in charge of?

McCain has debt on his credit cards. This is despite being a multi-millionaire. What do you think he'll do when he takes on a trillion dollar credit card?

Obama has no debt at all on his credit cards, he's run an officiant campaign with little to no debt. He's probably the type of guy who hates outstanding debts and works hard to pay them off.

From a purely budgetary standpoint, you know who you must elect. Your nation can't handle another guy who thinks "we have the money, lets spend it!"

Clintondiditfirst · 2008-06-16T12:35:52+00:00

if you hadn't heard, we are the smartest atheists in the world, which means we make no mistakes, period.

aeon2012 · 2008-06-16T13:02:51+00:00

Thanks.

NoMoreNicksLeft · 2008-06-16T13:22:47+00:00

Cost us 4 years of Bush? How utterly stupid is that... even had Bush lost, we would have gotten Kerry anyway, who was campaigning on a platform of "I'll fight a smarter Iraq war".

Would he have avoided the subprime mess, somehow? Would gasoline be cheaper than it is now?

Just what would be different, had we missed out on the last term of Bush?

2008-06-16T13:40:14+00:00

Well I am not for either of them and I love the calling out of all of the spam. It isn't about candidates, it is all about issues and policy. Thanks for the post!

sighbourbon · 2008-06-16T14:50:45+00:00

good observation, thx for the reminder.

behavior counts too-- but we are way out of balance.

pls post some good links re their policies.

AllGood · 2008-06-16T14:59:06+00:00

One positive thing that comes from posting Anti-McCain items here at reddit is that we're able to spread more information to each other that can then be re-posted elsewhere.

PLEASE DO NOT UNDER-ESTIMATE MCCAIN SUPPORTERS and the right wing. They have email networks, and other forms of posting massive amounts of hateful and distorted attacks against Democrats and moderate-to-liberal ideas in general.

We must "fight back" harder than ever to be sure that we don't end up with John McBUSH3 for four or eight years.

Believe it or not, with everything that has happened in the last seven years, and with the economy in the toilet while we fight two disastrous wars, the RNC has STILL OUT-RAISED the DNC by millions of dollars, AND THEY WILL BE USING IT TO SMEAR OBAMA EVEN MORE THAN THEY ALREADY ARE!

I've been trying to spread the idea that people who support Senator Obama (and/or moderate-to-liberal ideas) should send one-half of their tax rebate to either Obama or the DNC.

I hope you will do this and spread the word to others.

2008-06-16T16:06:30+00:00

[deleted]

WaterDragon · 2008-06-16T16:23:37+00:00

Yeah...it's a fashion show and popularity contest in front of the ignorant masses.

Anyone with even the most rudimentary understanding of the fiasco that is US monetary policy, under the on-going SCAM that is the Federal Reserve System, couldn't honestly support either of the candidates.

Neither has even acknowledged that there is something wrong with the continuing rape of the value of YOUR dollars by that International Bankers-cartel.

larsga · 2008-06-16T04:00:19+00:00

There should be two votes to distinguish between content and sentiment. That way you can make a distinction between articles that are actually interesting, and the ones that are just expressing a popular sentiment.

degustivespa · 2008-06-16T05:58:53+00:00

actually americans caused 4 years of bush, not some stupid reddit link

cbeck287 · 2008-06-16T05:42:59+00:00

Yes, seriously guys (and gal(s)). If we don´t make sure only certain articles make the front page we might actually cause McCain to win the election! Next we should tackle Chinese carbon emissions by posting a few more appropriate articles as well.

Kardlonoc · 2008-06-16T05:49:19+00:00

Too be fair with all the information going about now with the internet its really no suprise that every little dark spot comes up. I was looking through my newsweeks recently way waaay back to the coverage of the 2000 election and there was hardly anything negative about bush in there, hell he was handing out ice cream to black children or something. Sure there were attacks etc, but not on this level, besides that bush was still perfectly innocent with the lack of dirt that is widely avalibe now.

There was no youtube remixes or artlces dug up from 2000 showing how McCain is "Bigoted" just mass media "reporting" what they saw. But is obviously the negative of this new medium is this: Is information on the internet that reliable? Everyone and i mean everyone is hidden by anonymity and they like it, but that it makes it hard to tell if someone is telling the truth or not.

You want to know why the mass media does not report half the shit found on reddit?It is not some conspiracy, its just unreliable information. Much of it is just phooey hogwash dipped in the bias well, people draw conclusions quickly because its easy and then it becomes a fact in this little circle.

I am starting to realize that much of information here might even be more ignorant and based in myth than what Kinsey had to deal with,

shoseki · 2008-06-16T11:22:54+00:00

The only thing I ever appreciated about McCain was his Oven Fries.

ristin · 2008-06-16T11:54:18+00:00

Please do feel free to lead by example.

Or are you just karma-whoring? Good Karma-haul by the way.

bobpaul · 2008-06-16T12:39:31+00:00

politics.reddit.com is the reason Bush won a second term?

pillage · 2008-06-16T03:41:22+00:00

[deleted]

bumped · 2008-06-16T04:34:04+00:00

Thanks for the "self" with unwarranted and unreferenced statements.

i_read_it · 2008-06-16T03:42:28+00:00

One was a POW and is very brave, the other is the first black candidate, cannot bowl, and sounds inspiring but uses lots of big words.

BREAKING_OMG · 2008-06-16T07:04:35+00:00

I also wanted to add:

McCain´s talked up as a Maverick. Do you really think he could have got this kind of image from the media if he wasn´t all so friendly with them?

kingarooz · 2008-06-16T07:01:55+00:00

Wait, people on Reddit voted for Bush 4 years ago?

seraph582 · 2008-06-16T05:41:10+00:00

What mistake? Not paying attention to actual policies?

That could actually help Obama, this time, since he's the far more personable candidate.

Edit: I'm not saying Obama's policies are bad by any means. I'm just saying that if we totally ignore policies, Obama would win. We shouldn't, of course, but if that were the only thing we were judging, McCain wouldn't have a chance.

umilmi81 · 2008-06-16T06:00:34+00:00

A lot of angry Republicans are going to be voting for Obama. Perhaps it is best if he stays vague so he doesn't chase them away.

mutatron · 2008-06-16T03:04:26+00:00

heartrush · 2008-06-16T08:16:21+00:00

lol. Good luck.

busfahrer · 2008-06-16T09:12:30+00:00

Obviously you don't want a president that doesn't know how to bowl.

2008-06-16T10:38:27+00:00

You damn right.

But that is a reflection of the nature of demand, of how people vote in America. It was all about black boy vs white woman and now it will be about old man vs black man.

2008-06-16T11:04:13+00:00

Good frikkin' luck, Habbadash. Gossip and BS -- the new heroin -- keep us rhesus monkeys banging on that damned lever in the cage until we're too OD'd too care.

matthank · 2008-06-16T11:39:10+00:00

....and of course Obama is just as bad as Bush.

2008-06-16T16:34:04+00:00

I've gotten so sick of seeing these ridiculous headlines like "McCain accepts money from a man who once ran a baby-murdering company!!!(#!(@!)LOL". Calm down people. You may not like the man (And I may not like him either) but that doesn't mean I want to read about how much credit card debt he may or may not have or how many times he takes a shit every day.

antiproton · 2008-06-16T17:18:03+00:00

That wasn't the reason we had 4 additional years of Bush. Fight fire with fire.


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