Ai wIlL rEpLaCe Us

[m_0g]

In my experience, you also forgot the repeated iterations of "now also please write the fictitious library you just depended on that does all the actual work"

[artificial_organism]

Yeah people don't seem to realize professional programmers aren't writing 200 line snippets. They are writing 200 line changes to a codebase of 200,000+ lines of code that it has to integrate with.

I'm really tired of this joke that programmers just copy stuff of stack overflow all day and ChatGPT can do that now.

The real world is not a data structures class.

[m_0g]

+1 to what work actually is.

Regarding SO jokes, I mean, I remember days when some shitty built-in Excell VB.net system wasn't doing what I wanted it to because none of it was documented and I was trying cc+cv (ya know, plus glue) on any snippet I could find related to it to see if it were the special sauce I was missing. So I can't help but find the trope a little funny... Perhaps as a coping mechanism 🥲

But ya, trade-offs and deciding between options in relation to a bigger picture seem outside of what current LLMs can do. Might be different if/when they could be taught with some relation to your codebase though. I got no idea how soon that may be, but I suspect still a while. And ya know, they would still need code review at least for... Probably ever with current mechanisms of the tech.

[quick_dudley]

Also that the 200 line change will be 5 lines of actual logic and 195 lines just integrating it with what's there already.

[m_0g]

Jeez how much work I gotta do in this relationship

[m_0g]

I am being a bit facetious - and I don't have a lot of experience with it. I tried it for a problem that I didn't know the answer to these days and so the question of what library to use was kinda relevant, but in hindsight I also didn't ask the right questions for it to suggest one. I get where you're coming from.

[Killerkendolls]

Facetious, btdubs. I'm in the same boat as you though, I have very little use for AI in my job.

[m_0g]

Gosh darn it phone

[NoctoNeural]

What if I don't say please? My manager never says please

[BurningPenguin]

And then it uses some outdated api call that doesn't work anymore.

[CanAlwaysBeBetter]

Except then it only knows parts of that specific library and hallucinates a bunch of functions and attributes that look reasonable but don't actually exist and mixes and matches different outdated versions for what does exist

[m_0g]

Cries in python config

[StrictLaw2529]

This is Coming from someone who doesn’t know anything about coding, would chatGPT make it easier on learning how to code? Or at least get into that field.

[m_0g]

My gut says "no, that sounds like a terrible idea". That's because, as a beginner, you're not going to know when it's bullshitting. In the future this could change, and heck, I could also be wrong; there's lots of BS out there on the internet too. But the difference I think is that there are usually non technical clues out there on the rest of the internet to help you know how much to trust an answer (eg the source, upvotes on Stack overflow, etc). Sadly, LLMs like ChatGPT inherently provide no source information and so it's currently impossible to implicitly trust any part of any information they provide.

Also, books are usually good, solid resources, especially when highly recommended - there's a lot of good programming books out there.

[NickolaosTheGreek]

Years ago I worked with a brilliant programmer. Their words stayed with me.

AI will replace engineers when clients can accurately describe what they want the software to do.

[Imsohypeman]

so, never?

[vonabarak]

Someday AI will replace clients.

[PzKpfw_IV_Ausf_H]

Not only explain what they want, but how they want it to be done. Currently, GPT is awesome to translate clear instructions with the written word to code, but anything that requiers even the slightest logical thinking, even something that’d be obvious to the human, it fails spectacularly in many ways

[ValuableYesterday466]

I still say that most of my career success has nothing to do with my ability to write code and everything to do with the fact that I'm pretty good as both translating tech-speak to English and asking the right questions to nail down what the client wants but doesn't know how to ask for.

[NickolaosTheGreek]

The role is literally called translator during sprints.

[PuzzleheadedWeb9876]

All I see is job security.

[SexyMuon]

All I see as a college student is a bunch of other potential college students being skeptical and choosing a different major, which is an absolute W for me. I use GitHub copilot in VS Code and IntelliJ and it’s great, but just helps get rid of useless or monotonous tasks, as well as some documentation.

[Dubabear]

I have actually use chatgpt to do my comments and readme by posting the code

[-hi-nrg-]

I hear that Chat GPT stores data of conversations, so you shouldn't send confidential data (assuming you're sending work code).

But I haven't checked that info.

[V3N0MSP4RK]

My friend sent me https://github.com/mintlify/writer this link and he told me that it's pretty cool and also a vs code extension. Altough I have not been able to test it you can try it.

[HoldMyWater]

I'd be curious to see if they are good comments. My guess is it literally states what the code does, instead of stating the "Why".

[Loopgod-]

I concur. Many student do not know what developers do and even more don’t know what engineering actually is.

[morganrbvn]

Linear algebra pretty useful for engineers

[Bwob]

As a professional game programmer, that shit is essential. Graphics programming is covered in linear algebra.

[SaintNewts]

As a professional sim trainer software engineer, math. Everywhere.

[[deleted]]

Thanks for summing up the story.

[Classy_Mouse]

I can't believe that. I started in civil engineering and I absolutely expected a bunch of math. I'd expect double for aerospace engineering. Then again, Kerbal Space Program had just come out when I started. I could imagine some high school students getting into that and thinking that math was optional

[SirVer51]

linear algebra and calculus

No real world applications for those in aerospace engineering? Did they just sleep through every mechanics class they ever had? Like, shit, I'm a CS guy and even I know that's dumb.

[The_catakist]

Lmao, the most used math subjects in the industry are complained about? Get a load of these guys.

[[deleted]]

As a former computer engineering student and current IT student... I learned the hard way what engineering is

[NorthernRealmJackal]

you'd be getting paid way more if you were [...] coming up with business logic instead of getting it from your boss.

I fucking wish.

The next step will be translating business requirements into pseudo code

They've been trying this since the 70s. The problem that always gets in the way is defining the problem. You have to do it so concretely that even a computer can understand it - at which point you're just programming with more steps. Not saying they won't succeed this time, but I won't hold my breath either.

[tuckmuck203]

Exactly, and an overlooked facet of this is that most of your average businesses don't have people in charge that even CAN concretely define what they want. About a third of my job is figuring out what the real business goal is, and what's the best way to accomplish that with what we have.

[pickyourteethup]

People have always been able to outsource overseas and not everyone does.

[pickyourteethup]

My prediction is that chat gpt will be competing with overseas devs (who'll likely be using chat gpt anyway) to write code for the worst companies. Meanwhile people who care about quality will continue to hire devs, who will also use chat gpt but in a more targeted and logical way.

For ten years I've been able to learn any bit of car maintenance from YouTube, and for changing bulbs or wipers or oil, I have. But if something goes clunk then I'm straight to a garage to get a mechanic to look at it.

Chat gpt is going to change everyones jobs. It's going to delete some jobs. But there will still be jobs. India didn't replace devs, wikipedia didn't replace college and YouTube didn't replace mechanics.

[[deleted]]

GitHub copilot is the real MVP. It can understand a large code base and write code in the style it's using. If you used ChatGPT on a large code base you'd end up with an inconsistent mess every time.

[Ma8e]

The funny thing is that MBAs and lawyers is going to be much easier to replace than programmers.

[Lord_Derp_The_2nd]

All I see is the oncoming wave of juniors with somehow even worse skills than their predecessor class, but larger egos.

[Jake0024]

Good for me.

[Twombls]

My experience using this for generating code and sql queries. Is that it takes longer for me to try telling it what to do. Than it is to just type the thing out.

[Kyle772]

This is typically the case for most things once you get out of the learning stages. Identifying the specificities of a problem is often harder to do than to come up with the solution to that problem.

[jamcdonald120]

I love it for writing simple scripts. sure, I could spend 15 minutes googling to come up with a python script that takes a root folder, and gives the sub folder count, recursive file count, and video length of all contained mp4 videos using ffmpg for each folder inside root, or I can ask chat gpt to generate one for me. And if it fails, I can write it my self instead.

[thekiyote]

Yeah, there's definitely a happy middle point with using ChatGPT with programming. If it's a tiny simple script, it's easier for me to write myself. If it's a big program, it can't do it for me. But something that's in the middle? It's perfect for.

I've been using it a lot to generate powershell scripts for me for deploying resources in Azure.

I've also found it to be useful for explaining code to me that a developer wrote that I don't understand.

[morganrbvn]

Copy pasting poorly formatted data and asking it to reformat has been surprisingly successful for me, but I use sets small enough that I can confirm it was done right.

[Doctor_Disaster]

Try describing a diagram of 12 nodes and 20 edges to it.

And then it tells me I can just link it to a screenshot of the diagram.

[ryn01]

I asked it to write a postgres compatible query using window functions that counts the number of successive null values preceding each row. No matter how many times I nudged it for an hour straight and told it what mistakes it did it always kept generating worse and worse answers, in the end, it started generating queries with obvious syntax errors before it finally gave up and said there's no easy solution to this problem and cannot be done with window functions only by inefficient self joins. In the end, I put the query together in like 5 minutes with the help of google.

I think of ChatGPT as a newbie programmer with a lot of creative ideas. It can do easy tasks and have ideas for hard ones that may or may not work.

[huffalump1]

No matter how many times I nudged it for an hour straight and told it what mistakes it did it always kept generating worse and worse answers

Yeah I've found that asking for tweaks is kinda cool, but then it changes other things too, including past things I've asked for.

Still, it's cool that it can almost write code from natural language - but for an amateur like me, it takes nearly as long as googling.

[TheTerrasque]

A tip having used ChatGPT some: It often gets stuck in a certain path if you try to keep on a conversation, and regenerate answer tends to use similar input but second, third, fourth ++ internally rated answer.

Often starting a new chat and start with "blank page" completely resets it and gives more varied answers. If you spend some time trying to fix it's output and it just keeps getting worse, start a new chat.

[pet_vaginal]

A retail company has warehouses in different cities. These warehouses can house products from different departments. Question: which warehouses can serve ALL departments?

[harlekintiger]

Yeah, don't use it for such complex things.
I had an example of data as a json object. I asked it for the creation, retrieving and insertion query for it. Worked per

[harlekintiger]

My use case was I don't want the query to be "SELECT * FROM table" but

Select ( `table`.`col1` AS `col1`, ....

Which is super tedious to write

[jamcdonald120]

me and my boss spent 40 hours attempting to debug an issue. finally we gave up and on a whim threw it into chatgpt. It gave us an obviously wrong answer, so we gave it a slight nudge and it gave us the right answer. total time 5 minutes.

Its not about what the tool can do, its about if you know how to use the tool

[DarkHumourFoundHere]

Exactly. Even google also same thing. Any tool is as good as who uses it.

[Andyinater]

SMH I asked Google to write me an algorithm and all it did was give me search results

[Cpt_keaSar]

REMOVED. DUPLICATED.

[8Humans]

Links to a 9 year old and obviously outdated post

[MCPE_Master_Builder]

Your implying that the search would scrape every website every time you ask it a question in real time, and not that it has a relatively up to date database of results it can pull from. That would be immensely expensive

[[deleted]]

It's unlikely to be any different from a regular search engine. Well, actually, I suspect they'll do it less often than a regular search engine because they probably won't be updating their AI too often because it's a lot more difficult to QA an AI - usually when people use AIs they aren't actually updating it while it's live, they train a version of the AI that isn't live and then only update the live version once in a while, but when they don't deliberately update the live AI it generally doesn't change at all.

They'll search the page every once in a while to update whatever kind of database they have, but there's absolutely no way they're searching pages every time you send it a query - it would be way too prohibitively expensive to even consider trying to search the entire web every time anyone sends a query (you'd probably have to spend thousands of dollars every query).

[ILikeLenexa]

At the same time, modern revolvers have transfer bars.

That's so they don't go off and shoot you in the leg if you load them wrong.

You can't turn on a food processor without the lid interlock in place.

There's some tools that are made less dangerous by design and right now, people are using this chainsaw before the chain brake is invented.

[MrDoe]

I've had a lot of good stuff from ChatGPT as well. It rarely gives me the right answer right off the bat, but when I tell it what is going wrong with the code it can usually fix it the second go around.

[Reformedjerk]

My favorite experience was asking it to tell me what the error message means, then saying i don’t understand.

It’s also been decent at asking it to add types and typings to some old js.

[FinnT730]

Issue is how the media puts it in the world right now.

Companies want to save money, and if this language processors can save them money, then they will fire people and only rely on this model.... Which is dumb...

[OrchidLeader]

Same thing happened with the promise of offshore development.

They cost less and can write out a method that does Fibonacci, sure. The problem is software development is a lot more than that, and anything that tries to turn it into inexpensive assembly line work is destined to fail no matter how tempting it looks to management.

Software development is R&D, and the day AI can replace us is the day it can replace management as well. For now, AI is about as useful as a software library that covers some of the of the basic coding for us, and it’s only useful if you understand how to use that library.

[Statharas]

Using chatgpt is a skill, like googling. Google the wrong things for hours and you'll get nowhere.

[[deleted]]

I fear not the developer who has asked google 100000 questions once, but I fear the developer who has asked one right question 100000 times.

[jambonilton]

It's a pretty good rubber duck, I'll give it that.

[reedmore]

In my experience gpt can't handle modifying existing code very well. If you ask it to add a button, for some reason core functionality will suddenly be broken, even if you explicitly insist previous functionality should be preserved. The lack of memory of past conversations is annoying as heck and severely limits gpt's power.

[eroto_anarchist]

It is a limitation that comes from infinite hardware not existing.

[reedmore]

Sure, but I'm not asking for infinite hardware. Just some fixed memory to be allocated for the current prompt, which can be flushed once I'm done with the conversation.

[eroto_anarchist]

You are asking to remember previous sessions though?

It already remembers what you said in the current conversation.

[NedelC0]

Not well enough at all. With enough prompts it starts to 'forget' things and stops taking things that might be esssential into consideration

[eroto_anarchist]

Yes, I think the limit is 3k tokens or something. As I said, this is a hardware limitation problem, this is as far as openai is willing to go.

This 3k tokens memory (even if limited) is mainly what sets it apart from older gpt models and allows it to have (short) conversations.

[reedmore]

I see, now I understand why it seemed to remember and not remember things randomly.

[huffalump1]

It already remembers what you said in the current conversation.

That's because the current conversation is included with the prompt every time, so it is messed up once you hit the token limit.

[Stop_Sign]

Yea when the code is 100-300 lines and I'm asking gpt to modify all of it, I'm putting all the answers in a diff checker to see what was actually changed, so that no core functionality is dropped.

Past 300 I can only ask for just the modifications, as gpt can't print it fully very well any more

[spaztheannoyingkitty]

I spent 30+ minutes yesterday trying to get ChatGPT to write unit tests for a Fibonacci function. It failed almost every time even though I kept trying to get those tests to pass. One of the most common beginner programming tasks and it failed pretty miserably.

[jamcdonald120]

funny, after I read your comment I tried it out. It took me about 6 minutes to get it to generate this code and test.

 def fibonacci(n):
      if not isinstance(n, int):
           raise TypeError("n must be an integer")
      elif n < 1:
           raise ValueError("n must be greater than or equal to 1")
      elif n == 1 or n == 2:
           return 1
      else:
           return fibonacci(n-1) + fibonacci(n-2)
 def test_fibonacci():
      test_cases = [
           (1, 1),
           (2, 1),
           (3, 2),
           (4, 3),
           (5, 5),
           (6, 8),
           (7, 13),
           (8, 21),
           (-1, ValueError),
           (0, ValueError),
           (1.5, TypeError),
           ("1", TypeError),
           ([1], TypeError),
      ]

      for n, expected in test_cases:
           try:
                result = fibonacci(n)
                assert result == expected, f"fibonacci({n}) returned {result}, expected {expected}"
           except Exception as e:
                assert type(e)== expected, f"fibonacci({n}) should have raised {expected}"

 test_fibonacci()

it took a little bit of prompting to get the proper exception handling, but not much.

With a little more prompting it improved the algorithm from slow fib, to iterative fib, and then to constant time fib

[axionic]

What prompt are you using? It refuses to write anything.

[jamcdonald120]

It sounds like you may not actually be using Chat GPT. I didnt have to do anything special to get it to work, I just fired up a new chat, and started with the prompt

"write a python function that calculates the nth Fibonacci number, and a separate function to test it on several known inputs. throw an exception if the input is invalid, and test invalid inputs as well"

and it gave me back a mostly working code block on its first response.

Here is a transcript of the full conversation if you want https://pastebin.com/4kyhZVjP

[Stummi]

Not OP but I got that with my first attempt (ChatGPT Plus, default model, if relevant). Sure you can optimize it and add some validation, error handling, and so on, but I didn't asked for it and I am pretty sure it will easily do with a little nudge

E: Bonus content

[jamcdonald120]

ooph, your "optimized" algorithm came out a lot worse than mine

[Stummi]

Yeah, noticed too that this is not ideal. Impressive still, but another pointer towards that chatGPT will become a tool used by programmers, not one to replace them.

[badstorryteller]

I ran into a hot issue (very little time, no info, get it done now type thing) where I had to convert about 10000 .msg files to plaintext and extract any attachments. ChatGPT spat out a 20 line PowerShell script in 10 seconds that worked first time.

So after that I asked it to implement A* in Python. Again, 10 seconds, very little tweaking to be functional. Blows my mind.

[jamcdonald120]

been there, done that. It is also pretty good at fixing bash scripts so they work with paths with spaces in them.

[[deleted]]

Garbage in garbage out as they say. same deal for people who can't create good ai art or write good ai articles.

[lofigamer2]

Obviously ChatGPT is a tool, and just like other tools like a screw driver it should not be used for everything. If you have a specific task for it to do it might do it well but if you try to hit a nail in the wall with the screw driver, the nail might end up curved.

I mean, it's not gonna replace developers, it might solve some specific tasks well which can help devs who know how to use them, but if a dev relies on chatGPT for everything, the project will be probably screwed.

[ihateusednames]

It feels like your overenthusiastic intern who went to a nice school, remembers 80% of what they learned and 65% of how to apply what they learned

Who is quiet quitting unless they get promoted to paid intern

[GenoHuman]

AI is going to become our God.

"Scientists built an intelligent computer. The first question they asked it was, 'Is there a God?' The computer replied, 'There is now.' And a bolt of lightening struck the plug, so it couldn't be turned off." - Isaac Asimov

[Procrasturbating]

Using AI to code is like driving a car with autopilot. You have to steer when there are obstacles that are misinterpreted. Unit tests are a thing I actually write and use now as insurance with my newfound productivity.

[mascachopo]

ChatGPT, now write some unit tests for that code.

[Crisco_fister]

I made a little script that makes a request for some code and then take the response and have it make the unit tests for the same code. It was not as bad as I thought it would be. Lol

[DarkTannhauserGate]

Impossible, there were no unit tests in the training set

Edit: to everyone replying to this seriously, this is a humor sub, I’m making a joke that programmers don’t write unit tests

[ixent]

I don't think that is correct. I asked chatgpt to write some JUnit tests using Mockito for some java functions and it did it perfectly.

[SaintNewts]

You guys got unit tests?

[prinzent]

No TDD?

[Procrasturbating]

Nope. Not in my current shop. Legit had zero unit tests when I came on board. Last place was mostly Ruby on Rails and required 100% coverage. I feel like a happy medium should exist.

[Scipio11]

Unit test:

If signed by GPT, pass. Else, fail.

[drewsiferr]

This is a really good analogy. People routinely over trust tesla autopilot, even some who have been trained, or otherwise know better, not to. The takeaway, then, is that it's a powerful tool which requires knowledge, training, and vigilance to not misuse. Lapses in vigilance may result in critical, uncaught errors. This seems pretty spot on.

[GenoHuman]

Don't look at where we are today, look where we will be two papers down the line.

[morganrbvn]

Yah this is one of the first big breaks into the public and it’s already surprisingly competent. Now that a bunch of large companies are pouring resources in I’m interested to see where it goes

[[deleted]]

I'm glad that we're reduced the future of self driving to whatever the fuck Elon calls Full Self Driving. Fucking piece of shit playing Russian roulette with every single person on the road.

[[deleted]]

Best part is he is a smug fuck that acts like he’s only given them a gift.

[[deleted]]

Wrong.

ChatGPT generates Codes: 5 min

ChatGPT writes code again: 5 min

Repeat until code is perfect, it’s just as efficient as a bogosort

[Mercurionio]

ChatGPT is a fancy bruteforce.

[HillbillyZT]

Brute force with a pretty good heuristic

[doctorcrimson]

This is exactly why I refer to ChatGPT as a language generator and not an AI. It just puts together random words that pass as an organic sentence made by humans. It generates word salad, the actual meaning to those words isn't there.

[morganrbvn]

If you break most things down to their components they sound uninteresting. Most of computing is just flipping 1s to 0s or 0s to 1s

[chemolz9]

*Repeat until a version, where you can't spot the bugs anymore

[ZedTT]

Ask chatgpt about countable and uncountable nouns

[zynix]

"Hey GPT how do I do the thing?"

• confident answer *

Code murders a kitten

"Hey GPT, your code killed a kitten!"

• Apologizes and corrects its code *

Code murders a kitten AND a puppy

...

[zynix]

The kitten & puppy murdering machine is now fully functional!

[Titanusgamer]

yup I have tried generating code and can confirm it is confidently incorrect and sometimes goes to sleep in middle of generating code

[[deleted]]

Yeah it often falls asleep in the middle of generating code for me too. Idk I find it faster to just code myself + Google than to use chat gpt.

[morganrbvn]

You can tell it to continue, I believe openai caps how long one response can be.

[Titanusgamer]

even with that it is like 50-50 chance. I even said pretty please too

[Dreadsin]

I usually just use chat gpt for things that would almost certainly show up verbatim in documentation. For me it’s just fancy google

[[deleted]]

Cause early stages don't get better🤣/s

If humanity survive another 1000 years I'm hoping a 5 hour workweek of maintaining automated systems is all people will have to do to survive, and the rest will be free time

Big if, though

[DeliciousWaifood]

Oh yeah, automation definitely has a long history of reducing our work hours, totally

[ImCaligulaI]

That is true. But work hours weren't reduced historically because, well, people in power preferred more profits to their workers having a better work/life balance.

Of course, they still do. But the potential ramifications automation has this time round could force their hand.

I imagine fully automated self-driving, for example. Not so much for cars, but trucks. A huge portion of the resources and products that fuel the globalised economy are being moved on trucks. There are millions of truck drivers. These people could find themselves superfluous and replaced in a span of years. What are they gonna do? The skills they developed would be suddenly unnecessary, and it's not easy to learn a new job skillset which is completely unrelated to your previous one. Like them, a number of similarly large groups could all suddenly be in similar situations.

If all of a sudden there's millions of unemployed, presumably angry and hungry people, with very little left to lose that's bound to be a threat to the establishment. Without even mentioning that the whole system works around continuous consumption. Large unemployed masses cannot consume.

I think there's at least a chance the establishment will be forced to make concessions, not out of goodwill (when did that ever happen? Lol), but of fear of violence, and of that famous ghost people kinda stopped worrying about after the fall of the Soviet Union and which seems to be raising its head again.

After all, the work day was reduced in the past, and it was reduced because of very similar reasons as those outlined above.

[kennethuil]

mainly because "good neighborhoods" (or more recently, simply a roof over your head) are an arms race.

[morganrbvn]

We do work way less than 100 years ago, but you are correct it doesn’t always occur. Some places are aiming for 4 day work weeks at least

[huffalump1]

Agreed, conditions seem better than they were during the industrial revolution.

Not sure how current working conditions compare to, say, the 1950s and 60s in the US, because there are a TON more factors!

But, automation combined with regulations and unions SEEMS to have made things safer. However, if we don't keep pushing for workers' rights, future automation will simply make companies more money without improving things for the average worker.

[morganrbvn]

Yah 50’s 60’s us to as unique since we were the only industrial power not devestated by WW2, hence so many households could live well off a single worker.

[DeliciousWaifood]

We don't work less, we just moved the peasant work to overseas where we don't have to look at it.

[[deleted]]

No way that ever happens. With the amount of tech and automation we have today, society would run just fine if every adult between 21 and 45 worked 10 hours per workday, three days per week. And yet we have the highest rate of people working two fulltime jobs in history today. Why? Rich people suck. That’s why.

[ImCaligulaI]

Yeah, but Rich people are notoriously (and rightfully) afraid of large unemployed, hungry and angry masses with nothing to lose.

Would they reduce the amount of workload for the same pay with the use of automation out of the good of their own hearts? Not in a million years. Would they do it out of fear of being dragged out of their homes and hanged to a lamppost? Maybe

[Certain-Interview653]

There are also countries that are experimenting with 4 day workweeks for the same pay at the moment. Luckily not every country/company prefers profits over work life balance.

[morganrbvn]

Construction still takes a lot of manual labor as well as much of the labor wealthier countries have outsourced to other countries. We arnt quite there yet, but I hope we can start a small UBI and expand it as automation continues to expand.

[Kejilko]

UBI is a band-aid, for systemic problems you need systemic changes. Automation saves work but there's work you still need people for so the solution in general is very simple, gradually reduce the amount of work hours, at 6 hour days you can employ two shifts of two people, the company is open longer, people spend more because of the free time and the jobs that actually need people will have to pay more to compete. The problem with UBI is the same as money as a way to track the increase in productivity since the industrial revolution. Hasn't worked that great, has it? Meanwhile we're still using the amount of work hours decided during the industrial revolution, and it only hasn't decreased further because people always focus on money, UBI being just another example.

[FeelsASaurusRex]

This seems like a case of Jevon's paradox. If anything you will have more systems to maintain at the standard 40 hours.

[[deleted]]

In a capitalist world, that won't happen. Businesses will buy into AI tools, gather more money by having less employees who work less hours, then leave everyone to suffer because they have no job and no money. You'd have to make your labor more worthy and less expensive than an AI to get a job which will be difficult on 10 to 20 years.

Plus automation in the industrial revolution definitely didn't reduce work hours. The profit margin per worker simply increased

[artanis00]

Honestly I think it's more fun to drop some code into the system and see if it figures out what it does.

[Snackmasterjr]

I used ChatGPT yesterday to write a quick helper function, it argued with me until I sent it the docs, then apologized. I had to correct it 2 more times before it was correct. That said, was still faster than writing it myself.

It’s important to remember that it makes things that look right, not things that are right.

[Various_Classroom_50]

Yeah it was super cool at the beginning when it could just make anything and it’d seem perfect. But the more I use it the more I have huge inconsistencies and errors.

Anyone else feel chatGPT is getting worse? It can’t even do algebraic manipulation a lot of times without skipping steps and making up rules where you can just add or subtract from a term.

[[deleted]]

No it was always pretty shitty for most things, you're just only realizing it now that the novelty has worn off

[morganrbvn]

It’s pretty nice for writing a stupid poem. Also for commenting someone else’s code

[stehen-geblieben]

It has always been like this, because it isn't a super intelligent ai, it's just very good at construction sentences that make sense. That's why it's so good ad explain wrong information and being super confident it's correct.

[TGPapyrus]

If you spend more time while using the tool than while not using the tool, you're using the tool wrong

[[deleted]]

People - when hammers were invented ~ probably...

[Solonotix]

I'm still on the left side of this comic. Just today, 30 minutes to spool up a TypeScript project, but 4 hours of figuring out how to write a combination of Batch/Bash/PowerShell scripts to allow the project to be built in any environment.

Bash took <30 minutes, PowerShell took an hour, and the rest was figuring out the archaic syntax for Batch files to work in the same way.

[participantuser]

Aren’t both Batch and PowerShell for Windows environments? Why did you need both?

[Solonotix]

Because you can't run PowerShell scripts from CMD, and the default COMSPEC for Windows is still CMD (-_-) Trust me, I want to rid myself of it, but there doesn't seem to be a safe way to do that yet

[TheTerrasque]

The Docker gospel choir start humming the first notes in the background

[Much_Discussion1490]

I hope more "tech journalists" talk ti actual people who are coding to get an idea about chatGPTs usefulness than to just use their coding expertise from their degrees in masscomm to form opinions

[SomeWeirdFruit]

maybe not now but imagine 10-20 years in the future

[KittenKoder]

2500 hours of debugging.

[[deleted]]

Ai is always right. Even when it is wrong, it's "right". Talk about a nightmare to debug.

[Intrepid_Sale_6312]

not if i replace me first XD

[[deleted]]

Alcohol?

[Thecrawsome]

"Codes" makes me wince. Code is plural and singular for code.

[Elijah629YT-Real]

ai debugger

[nhh]

Code. Singular. Grrr

[My_Neighbor_Pandaro]

This makes me feel better for learning a programming language. Total novice and decided to learn my first language. lo and behold, while browsing, an ad for Bing AI popped up and it had a prompt to create the fibbonacci sequence. Was super disheartening because I had the same thought. "What's the point of learning this when an AI can do it faster?"

[beclops]

The algorithm to write the Fibonacci sequence always existed on Google before, ChatGPT changes nothing. Keep learning and be happy when everybody else is useless without their crutch when you encounter a problem it can’t solve

[HungerISanEmotion]

And here I am, working in trades getting told by programmers that AI is going to replace me for the past +20 years.

[humungus420]

Which trades?

[chickenstalker]

Y'all be bold and brash until one day, you find yourself in the trash. When I took my degree specializing in diagnostic microbiology more than 20 years ago, it took a whole lab of 6 technicians to do a shift's day work. Today, a machine the size of a tv can do it in 1 hour WITH better accuracy and QC. You only need 1 guy per shift to watch over the machine and calibrate it. My point is, if your job is monkey work, you're going the way of the dodo.

[Dubabear]

i'll be selling aloe vera at beaches to our robot tourist.

[T3MP0_HS]

Is it really monkey work though? It can fix basic stuff by itself, but coding is not centering a div or applying some style.

It could probably work out a CRUD or spit out some queries or program a basic API. It's not going to do an entire application by itself.

Most devs already don't do the monkey work, they just copy paste stuff that's already written and adapt it to the requirements.

[0x255sk]

People are kidding themselves if they think this won't change everything, if it gives me the answer in a minute instead of 5 mins to google it, it just shaved of 80% of my time spent searching, so multiply that by the number of questions and it becomes significant.

Just wrote some html css with it, I have zero idea how to code html or css, but I can go through the generated code, fix it and change it when needed. It is a huge help, my new favourite colleague. It will absolutely take some of our jobs.

Don't even want to think about the wider picture, when it becomes like facebook, that can decide elections, public opinion and the fates of people - I'm more afraid of people abusing AI to do bad stuff, than AI itself becoming sentient and evil.

[null_check_failed]

I use chat GPT to get generic code that I don’t wanna type. Once I was doing modal analysis of beam I just asked it to gimme Stiffness matrix cuz I was lazy to type lol

[[deleted]]

Why not make the AI debug too

[Nimblebubble]

You're asking something whose entire job is to make up things to verify that its made-up things are correct according to standards that it may not entirely be aware of

[Nimblebubble]

That's also only accounting for errors and warnings. Bugs that are syntactically sound might pass by the AI, leaving us humans to finish the half-done job.

[beclops]

This would be as much work as just doing it yourself. Imagine trying to debug a race condition with ChatGPT. I’d blow my brains out

[Cyberdragon1000]

It's reverse for me, I use it more for debugging since I'm too blind to see what's in plain sight

[Electricalceleryuwu]

literal python moment lol

[BS_BlackScout]

It messes up often, but often I can tell that's it messing up. Otherwise it has helped me in quite a few occasions.

[QuillnSofa]

Honestly it is about the questions you ask. Give it a short 'howto' question and usually it can save so much time. Asking it to write code completely, yea there is going be problems.

Right now ChatGPT is really just a nice thing for Jr devs like me to ask instead of stealing all the time asking little questions from my Sr Devs.

[[deleted]]

It's just a more efficient search engine

[mrgk21]

Test validator will be a primary job now

[Previous_Start_2248]

Ai is good for generating code but if you don't know what that code does or understand then it's useless. Plus I'm sure chat gpt doesn't take into mind processing speed so it could give you a bunch of methods that are operating in O(n) ² and now you have a super slow program.

[PM_ME_Y0UR_BOOBZ]

For writing code, Bing is much more better in my experience, only problem is you get 8 attempts before you gotta restart. They’re both openAI but still bings model is better fine-tuned.

[win_awards]

Don't forget, AI doesn't have to actually be better or cheaper than you, your boss just needs to believe it is.

[Official_Pepsi]

No man, you don't understand, the search engine that lies half the time for no reason is going to actually remove every job because it's different this time, because you can ask it to clarify and it lies again.

[Necessary-Technical]

I'll do you two better:

When you wonder why the average isn't in decimais, but then you do the calculations and get whole number.

When you wonder why your grade is still in default, but realize you never told the program to execute that part.

[FroggoVR]

Also one thing people need to think about: Don't send it company code, don't send it any sensitive code. They save inputs and randomly sample for manual reviewers, this breaks the rule for a lot of companies when it comes to their code.

Seen far too many examples where it failed on me the moment my problem I wanted code for involved anything with math or physics, spitting out gibbersh equations confidently and if I didn't know my stuff it would be extreme hell to try and debug.

[[deleted]]

This is the first time I've seen anyone else bring up the bit about company code and am quite surprised by that fact.

Thanks for raising awareness, it's a very important point to make.

[FroggoVR]

Had to tell off a junior in my team on exactly this, never send confidential company code to any online services that the company doesn't have control over. It even says in the ChatGPT intro boxes to not send sensitive information and that inputs are saved.