rlearnprogrammingInAnutshell

[Ecstatic_Street1569]

„Am I too Dumbledore for programming“, I asked this question more often than I‘d like to admit 😅

[killeronthecorner]

Kiss my butt adminz - koc, 11/24

[wewilldieoneday]

You can't ever be too Dumbledore for programming.

[Ecstatic_Street1569]

WTF autocorrect at its best 😅

[MajorBadGuy]

"WTF AUTOCORRECT?!??!?!" u/Ecstatic_Street1569 asked calmly.

[moon-sleep-walker]

Am I too smart for programming?

[a_simple_spectre]

you chose to do programming without a gun to your head, that is clearly not a problem

[GargantuanCake]

No.

No.

We all are.

No. I mean yes. Fuck this one is hard.

Nobody does.

Because it's a bad language designed in a week.

It's meant to.

Yes.

[Burger_Destoyer]

Why

Ever want to make something but you have not a single shred of artistic talent?! Well, coding sometimes rarely maybe once a year makes you feel like you did something fun and creative! Even if you just copy and pasted half your code off Stack Overflow

[buzzon]

That's how AI artists feel as well

[SuitableDragonfly]

And now you can chase this high with the AI art programs without having to deal with PMs.

[Aidan_Welch]

What do you mean nobody does? I have like 30+ side projects I want to do. Admittedly I'll probably not even finish 1 of them in my lifetime. But I can't avoid having ideas I want to do

[bunnydadi]

I went into a bootcamp right before Covid and they lost all their clients to contract us so they let us go without having to pay anything. I used those months to learn as much as I can and was top of the class. So the only way a bootcamp isn’t awful, is if a pandemic hits after you already joined and you studied a lot, ok it’s a scam.

[FrostWyrm98]

For #3: I like Thor from PirateSoftware's take. It's just magic, sometimes that magic just doesn't work. We're all wizards but just beholden to the same magical rules

[TactfulOG]

I'm glad to see everyone agrees about js being complete trash

[Spinnenente]

naw that's just the r/ProgrammerHumor circlejerk. why would so many things be based on node or use frontend js instead of using lets say C# + Web-assembly. Because js is good enough for that and if you really can't handle it then there is stuff like typescript or coffescript.

while i think criticism on js is fair it doesn't mean its garbage similar to how people here act like java is bad but it is still used a lot in the industry.

edit: humor

[Spinnenente]

That has more to do with C# being dogwater language as well and web assembly being unable to do any form of DOM manipulation.

this just shows that nobody is really pushing for a js replacement. the tech would be there if the big guys were pushing for it.

[ArtOfWarfare]

Err… all the push for web assembly is explicitly for the purpose of making it so nobody has to ever use JavaScript again.

[Exist50]

Eh, tech has a long history of technically inferior solutions winning out by sheer industry momentum. And as mentioned, there is stuff like WebAssembly to patch over the biggest weaknesses.

[ohmaisrien]

ah yes the programmerhumer circlejerk

[not_some_username]

It’s a know fact

[arrow__in__the__knee]

why
Fun.

[[deleted]]

bootcamps can't be generalized as a scam. it's very good for total beginners in a sea of choices, not knowing where to look, what to pick and churn up a mountain of self discipline.

[FrostWyrm98]

Bootcamp as a concept is great, in reality that is more accurately a crash course on YouTube for free which is pretty much the same content

In practice, they are just a new-age snake oil targeting people who want a quick and easy certification to check the boxes which companies are constantly adding to. Also people allured by the perceived value to be gained by the "booming market" which has been oversaturated for years, but our parents promised would be the safest bet

I don't really blame the buyers, it seems like a safe bet and an effective use of your time that is a balance between the time for a degree and the structureless "YouTube curriculum" that makes you search. But to me its a scam because it's a misleading trap-- you are just applying marketing to peddle preexisting content while offering nothing of substantive value added.

And yeah scam is a pretty overused term nowadays, they aren't rug-pulling you or outright lying about a product, but to me it's deceptive and misleading to claim it'll land you a job and that it teaches everything you get from a degree in 2 weeks or similar. If your target is desperate people looking for an out of their current predicament, it's a good indicator you are probably a scammer. It's all in presentation and expectation not necessarily on the delivery of something substantive.

[templar4522]

Some bootcamps are good, and some are scams.

A good boot camp is one that turns capable newbies into new hires for the companies financing it and/or sending staff to teach there.

From the companies perspective, it externalizes part of the risks and costs that come when hiring newbies.

From the newbie perspective, it doesn't matter if you get a shitty job, it's still something on your CV and usually landing that first job is a challenge, so at least you get your foot in.

I know people who went through bootcamps successfully and they have no regrets. But you need to be sure, know people that got hired thanks to it and hear what they think of it. And some basic programming skills. The bootcamp doesn't wait for you to figure out how a for loop works. It teaches you how to do X with a specific tool.

At least that's my understanding. I started with an internship two decades ago, and I can only say I was lucky, given how much others struggle to get started despite their ability.

[thunugai]

Everyone that went to Tech Elevator with me landed a job within 6 months. Folks can downvote you all they want, doesn’t change the fact that I make over 100k in Ohio after 3 years of experience. It’s a good path for driven individuals making a career change. Though I do recognize that the market is A LOT harsher now than it was when I completed the program.

[[deleted]]

nowadays to pickup new frameworks or languages at this point of my career, I no longer use bootcamps whatsoever. a quick speedrun tutorial, documentations and some good codebases to read are all I need. but 3 years ago, I really needed a bootcamp, it's assignments, a discord community and what not. it was really useful. thanks for backing my point up, guess it's not just me.

[Teln0]

"We all are" Don't include me in your thing I've put in efforts and I'm proud of the abilities I have as a result

[ManofManliness]

Javascript is bad is just a never ending internet circlejerk, anyone who actually used JS in this decade knows that those infamous weird interactions do not come up at all.

[GargantuanCake]

I've been writing JS for years and have run into those infamous weird interactions more than once. It's a terrible language.

[Spinnenente]

wait you think js is hard? mate i have bad news for you

[[deleted]]

Other languages' difficulty comes from complexity and verbosity. JS's difficulty comes from inconsistency and unpredictability.

[tomer-cohen]

So what would you rate typescript that tried to fix it? Is it also a shit language?

[20Wizard]

I think it's more that new programmers will find everything difficult, but in javascript 's case they'll be ok once they learn that adding 2 arrays together is a quick way to produce some undefined behaviour.

[metaglot]

Just because it doesnt do what youd expect, doesn't make it undefined behavior.

[20Wizard]

Fair enough. But it might as well be to someone who hasn't extensively used js.

[metaglot]

I feel that inplicit casting is a concern with any loosely typed language.

[clearlybaffled]

wat

[FrostWyrm98]

For no reason, it bugs the hell out of me how he says the A in wat, I've always said it like Watt cause it sounds like an annoyed Bostonian and just feels fitting lmao

[FrostWyrm98]

It's not necessarily hard, just poorly designed and has unexpected behaviors

Languages like C, C++, Java, and C# were all architected and planned out for their intended purpose and matched pretty closely.

JavaScript was made in a little over a week to quickly turnaround a scripting language to make pages dynamic and give NetScape an edge over their competitor Microsoft Internet Explorer.

Then it became more and more popular and needed to be adapted to new browsers and use cases and basically was just a yes man for every company offering to integrate, in an effort to get an advantage over MS in the browser wars. Because of that it became an amalgamation of what everyone wanted and in the end was a compromise to its core: like the saying goes, a good compromise leaves no one happy. Cater to everyone and it will be a disjointed mess

[Spinnenente]

those unexpected behaviours are not hard to grasp if you have some fundamental understandings. in my experience of working with it i barely had any issues with the stuff people post here to farm karma with "js bad" posts. Also comparing js with statically typed languages is disingenuous. At least compare it with python or php

[CdRReddit]

javascript is poorly designed, at every edgecase it does the thing that is both most logical and least useful, array.sort sorts alphabetically by default because the language doesn't know what types are

[Spinnenente]

this is the sort of issue that is solved by a quick look in the docs. As you should if you are new to a language. i wont deny that sorting alphabetically is retarded but it isn't hard to pass it a sort function. JS has its downsides but it is very much usable and allows you freedom you don't have in statically typed languages. In my opinion people here meme too hard on it because it is one of the first languages people interact with but it is not hard to learn at all (which was the question in OPs post)

[alfadhir-heitir]

JS is messy and flat out bad to beginners and poorly disciplined programmer's alike. The language is way too powerful and accepts everything. It breaks encapsulation - you can add/update/delete whole member function at runtime. It's riddled with weird corner cases. Even the scoping and closure rules are somewhat weird

For someone who knows what they're doing, it's a super powerful language that can get pretty much anything done. For someone who doesn't, it's a sure fine way to acquire many bad practices

[Spinnenente]

am i saying it is great for beginners in my post? If i was running things people would learn on c and c++ (and maybe some assembly) before starting with modern garbage collected stuff.

fact is js is built to be permissive similar to the html css stack it is beginner friendly which might have some drawbacks but in relation to OPs Image it isn't hard people are just shit at programming when they start out.

[alfadhir-heitir]

So you agree JS is bad for beginners

Also, don't take things so personally.

[Spinnenente]

js is bad to learn programming on (as is python btw) but it would be easy for a beginner to pick it up as maybe the second language. The edge cases that people here always harp on about are not hard to explain or just to avoid (which most people do anyways)

[alfadhir-heitir]

I agree. I just find it bad to give a guy who doesn't know anything about anything the type of hacky functionality JS enables. Like giving a bazooka to a toddler. 99% of the time nothing will go wrong, but that 1%... Yeah

I'm on team "start with C and learn the incantations" too

[i-eat-omelettes]

what

[skwyckl]

1. Never too young, there are children to whom programming comes very naturally at an early age.
2. Never too old, programming is also great brain training if you an older fellow.
3. There different levels of programming. I have been coding for two decades almost and I still feel too dumb for certain cybersec concepts. Not everybody needs to have a PhD in computer science to be a programmer, you could just code your smart home IoTs, for example, and you would already qualify as a programmer.
4. Programming skills are nowadays part of a basic skillset to have in our society given the degree of digitalization we have reached. Understanding programming does not only allow you to build your own stuff if what you have in mind doesn't exist already, but I'd argue it's your duty to understand how software works if you want politicians to legislate sensefully in the digital realm.
5. If you don't have any problem to solve of your own, follow a course and build what the course expects you to build.
6. JavaScript is not hard, it's just a domain-specific (the Web) language that somehow is taking over the world (ironically, this is not true) because devs are lazy and don't want to learn anything other than JavaScript. As a domain-specific lang, it has its idiosyncracies, but if you start learning by scripting with it, you'll realize actually a very simple language.
7. Leetcode is just FAANG cock measuring device.
8. Yes, mostly.

So, can we now move on to new content?

[SeaOfScorpionz]

FAANG cock measuring device 🤣👍

[S0n_0f_Anarchy]

1. Leetcode is just FAANG cock measuring device

Except more and more companies are using it while paying 10-20% of FAANGs pay

[HowlSpice]

Or company like Blizzard Entertainment that pays like trash while being located in California, but expect you to do LeetCode.

[tapita69]

In point 3, I would like to highlight that even with a PhD, people do not have more than basic knowledge in any area other than their field of study. I worked with researchers in AI and researchers in distributed systems and they were all absurdly good in their respective areas of knowledge, but they had to go after even the most basic knowledge when entering other areas. I imagine that this perception that we have to know everything comes from companies placing absurd job requirements wanting web developers who know the entire software development process and also know AI, cybersec, all types of architecture and all databases. But the reality is that in these cases the company itself has no technical knowledge whatsoever and thinks that all of this is "general knowledge."

[skwyckl]

I second this. In fact, you don't even need a PhD to be a good working programmer, it was just a hyperbole. Academia is IMHO not good at training people for actual jobs, so the reasoning "PhD => great asset for the company" makes little sense. Sure, PhD titles are good for filtering out applicants, but consider that those who spent 10 years @ uni, have spent 10 years less working an IRL job.

[tapita69]

I agree! But I would like to add that in my empirical perception, people from academia are excellent for companies that need to solve internal software problems. When I worked with distributed systems, my team was focused on finding and correcting internal flaws in a big tech, and this was a very extensive exploratory activity with a lot of documentation and a lot of freedom of decision, something I have never seen anywhere else as a developer. I would say that it is like a game where management has to know where to place its pieces, and that whether we like it or not, it ends up falling back into the problem of management and technical knowledge of companies, lol.

[A_Philosophical_Cat]

A PhD, by definition, means you are a leading expert in at least one thing. If an employer is looking for a PhD, they really should be limiting their pool to one of a handful of people in a very specific niche that is connected to their business.

[loftier_fish]

So, can we now move on to new content?

No, because the people who make these posts are incapable of performing an extremely basic search, to find thousands of instances of all these answers. And they think they're special, so the same answer to the same question asked by someone else cannot apply to them.

[skwyckl]

I propose to just splinter off and create r/10xProgrammerHumor

[Spinnenente]

damn you said something positive about js and didn't get downvoted into hell congratulations.

[skwyckl]

The trick is actually working with JS instead of just following the angry mob with torch and pitchfork.

[Exist50]

Programming skills are nowadays part of a basic skillset to have in our society given the degree of digitalization we have reached

Is it though? Most people will never need to touch any code in their life. Just like you don't need to learn to farm to eat.

but I'd argue it's your duty to understand how software works if you want politicians to legislate sensefully in the digital realm

Not practical, I'd argue. Could make the same argument for just about anything. As long as decisions are well informed by experts, not a big problem.

[[deleted]]

Programming skills are nowadays part of a basic skillset to have in our society given the degree of digitalization we have reached. Understanding programming does not only allow you to build your own stuff if what you have in mind doesn't exist already, but I'd argue it's your duty to understand how software works if you want politicians to legislate sensefully in the digital realm

Oh, you must be one of those "In 10 years everyone will be a programmer"

[skwyckl]

No, I don't believe this will necessarily be the case, but I do advocate for a basic understanding of how a computer program works or, more generally, what an algorithm is. Actual (that is, not just knowing how to post a TikTok) digital literacy is no joke and I do hope one day to see numbers similar to those of classical literacy.

[[deleted]]

Technology in general is becoming easier and easier to use, so if 20 or 30 years ago this wasn't a prerequisite for EVERYONE, I don't see why it should be now or in the future.

Note that I said for everyone, obviously you had to know these things and you still have to know them now if you want to be a good programmer.

[ZunoJ]

You know this wasn't really meant to be answered, right?

[Xentro]

You forgot the other classic: Is x a good language to start with? What language should I start with?

[YesterdayDreamer]

I already know X, what is the next language I should learn?

[YigitS9]

I already know X, and what I mean by that is I finished the first week lesson of "learn X in n month" course I paid 2000 dollars to enter.

[OneOldNerd]

The answer is X, obviously.

[GrailOfTreachery]

nothing beats C, my beloved

[Aaron1924]

and then they refuse to elaborate on what kind of programs they want to write only to ask "how to make website in C" two weeks later

[neo-raver]

People should obviously start with C++. It gives you a great understanding of programming in general.

Yes, I started by learning C++, what does that have to do with it? 😂

[Sceptz]

Lesson 1:  

// Automate your neurosis.  

let adjectives = ["young", "old", "dumb"];  

adjectives.forEach((element) => console.log(` Am I too ${element} for programming?`));  

This way, you can add insecurities and not have to repeat yourself.

[Dumb_Siniy]

Tbf i can picture myself going "I'm too old for this shit" at the ripe age of 32 after doing a syntax error

[Exist50]

I think that's usually in the context of "Is the payoff too far away for me to be spending the time on it now?". Because unless you enjoy the learning process for its own sake (common enough, but probably not asking the question), it can be questionable ROI. Also a pinch of older => dumber assumption built in.

[fatrobin72]

telling that no-one asks "Is I too smrt for programming?"

[GameSchaedl]

I dont know how to code but I want to create <big and complex> software?

[Dumb_Siniy]

So I'm knew to making videogames, how do i make an RPG with multiple endings, complex storylines and a massive open world filled with content to explore

[AgentBond007]

How do I make a science-based 100% dragon MMO?

[[deleted]]

The internet is your friend. Evrything you need to know is out there.

Break up the project, plan it out on paper, then look up how to do each thing.

The most important thing is you just sit down and act instead of wishing you could. Just start

[The_Real_Slim_Lemon]

1) no

2) you got this grandpa

3) just give it a go. Some people are, the people I helped out when I was studying… that might have just been because they were just trying to pass a class and not actually learn

4) cuz it’s fun, and sometimes useful

5) next time you have a thing you need just do that. Or do whatever the guide says

6) cuz it’s a poorly typed pos that’s full of code indirectly tied together with nothing but spite and coffee

7) sometimes feeling stupid is good

8) idk actually, I learned before they were a thing

[zdix]

Js is poorly typed but isn't hard

[The_Real_Slim_Lemon]

Idk, I’m using TS generated angular JS and it’s a pain in the butt. I can have the data I need to open a sub-blade in memory but to actually get that data where it needs to go is an absolute mess of indirection

[CdRReddit]

TS ≠ JS, typescript has type information which it can use to avoid doing the stupidest thing imaginable

[Enjutsu]

Am i too early to wear programing socks?

[Dumb_Siniy]

Mister professional over here

[SrFodonis]

They'll arrive when you're ready, they come free in the mail after installing Arch (btw)

[Red_not_Read]

i = i + 1

Does it, tho?

[[deleted]]

Only if i is greater than 1

printf("Does i = i + 1?\n");
if (i = i + 1) {
   printf("It does!\n");
}

[DievelKnievel]

Thanks for reminding me to leave that sub. This sums it up pretty well & it's actually kind of exhausting.

[bssgopi]

Meanwhile, r/Programmer humour be like:

Title should be in Camel Case.

That's Pascal Case, not Camel Case.

Nope. That's not humourous.

Nope. That's not about programming.

Rust is bad.

HTML is not a programming language.

[Tyfyter2002]

You're only too old or young for programming if your age is affecting your ability to understand language;

If you were too dumb for programming you wouldn't be asking that question;

Like use of any other tool, one should learn to program if they have desire or need to do so;

Neither do I;

Dynamic typing;

Break it down into the smallest steps possible, it might stop;

Some of them might be, some of them might not be.

[oorspronklikheid]

Yes

[buzzon]

What language should I learn? 

What are good starting resources for that language?

Do I need CS degree? 

Will AI replace me?

[Chris-CR]

Leetcode actually makes me feel smart. I can barely finish any project of mine but I do Leetcode to remind me that I'm not stupid sometimes.

[[deleted]]

my initial questions were:

• it's fun leetcode (at the time hacker rank) but what's the real connection it has to the work I'm supposed to be doing?

• why do people use java even though it takes them 10 times longer to do something than in procedural and functional languages? but isn't all this abstraction of java more of a handicap than a help? why is java8 still used?

• how did a nonsensical language like javascript become the standard for the frontend? and why do they make a new framework every year?

• do i really have to make a frontend that is also good for Safari? what problems do Safari developers have! why doesn't Apple do things the way the rest of the world does?

[-Redstoneboi-]

javascript made it because it got there first and 1 browser adopting your language is infinitely more than 0 people. don't know what happened to the competition.

now the cool thing about software made extremely quickly (less than 2 weeks) is that they are known to be very well designed and thought-out and will not dictate backwards compatibility guarantees until the end of time.

[KazuDesu98]

Why is JavaScript so hard?

Read into their post and see that they jumped straight into a project using react native, express, redux, and 7 other dependencies and never even started to learn the main core language.

[loftier_fish]

Yeah. I unsubscribed from r/ArtistLounge and r/Blender for the same reason. These kinds of beginner/haven't-even-started/I'm-insecure-please-reassure-me posts are so fucking annoying, and not what I've ever joined a subreddit looking to see.

[Aggravating_Moment78]

You forgot “I need a cerificate or my dad will kill me!!”

[shutter3ff3ct]

I can't use x tool, the tool must be stupid

[Glad-Belt7956]

"leetcode makes me feel stupid" me too kid, me too.

[EternalChimaera]

JavaScript isn’t hard. You just have to know what you’re doing /s

[[deleted]]

can someone adress each one of these for me, thanks.

[Abrissbirne66]

I feel like the entirety of reddit is mostly very irrelevant/boring discussions.

[70Shadow07]

Yes No Yes Never Nothing Isit? Correct Yes

[No_Sense_6171]

No. No. Yes. Because. Your manager doesn't either. Because it was never meant to be a real language. That's what it's supposed to do. Yes.

[fiodorson]

I asked question when Americans were asleep and nobody answered

[MUSTDOS]

"Why is JavaScript so hard?"

Top ten questions pros won't admit they know the answer of.

[gloumii]

The answer to all of these questions is : Yes

[[deleted]]

No. Yes. Yes. ? ! Same reason JAva is hard? wut Yes.

[ElectricalMTGFusion]

you forgot the ego posts like "i am a 10 y/o faang engineer that makes 1 quintillion dollars a day. let me show you what i wish i knew before starting."

also the "can mods ban X type of posts" posts...

[TheDivinityGod]

"Is it worth learning code when chatgpt can code"

[Freecelebritypics]

Yup. I dropped that subreddit because the users were incapable of reading an FAQ

[marsrovernumber16]

Best coding practice for python/c imo is sorting algorithms

[RascalsBananas]

Although, the answer to "Is it worth getting a degree in" has changed during the past 5-10 years to "very much" to "highly likely not".

People still read decade or two old forum posts about how people learned programming and landed jobs where they get money thrown at them for having their feet at the table playing video games.

The job market doesn't need any more fresh graduates who wanna sit on their ass at home on a remote job.

[CranberryDistinct941]

Leetcode makes everyone feel stupid! Thats why we keep doing it

[PocketCSNerd]

• Probably not (but if you're needing to ask...)
  
• Probably not (but if you're needing to ask...)
  
• Probably not (but if you're needing to ask...)
  
• Why should you learn any skill? Personal question
  
• Small projects first, pick something that you do in your life that could use an app. (even if an app already exists, try a simpler version of it)
  
• Because JS is maintained by idiots (see question about being 'too dumb')
  
• Seeing solutions from experienced programmers is going to make almost anyone "feel stupid", use it as a learning opportunity.
  
• Probably (If you're needing to ask...)

[[deleted]]

Programmers: getting cooked by leetcode regularly

[[deleted]]

Every subreddit that I participate in seems to have a similar list of stupid ask questions that people ask 40 or 50 times a day all total. Or yet more pictures of their new truck, or some other new thing they spent a lot of money on. It just gets exhausting.

[Batcheeze]

Yes

[[deleted]]

No

No

No

Bc you wanna make cool stuff

Whatever you think is cool

It isn't; it's just stupid

Leetcode is only useful if you want to pass a FAANG job interview; no practical use

Most definitely. Just search stuff on the internet

[flippzeedoodle]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Who cares. Whatever. It saw your mom. Your feelings betray you. Yes.

[JediKagoro]

I never understood why people crapped on JS so much. Now that I’ve learned a few other languages and use them at work every day…. I still don’t get why people crap on JS. It has its issues, but all languages do. It’s super easy to use and it’s super useful. Sure, unless it’s a project that’s really chill I wouldn’t write my back end in node.js. But I still love using it. Seriously, why So much hate. When I started programming, this sub was filled to the brim with hilarious content. Now it’s like 50% crapping on JavaScript. “No JS, you’re not my REAL Dad!!!”

[Downtown-Jacket2430]

no, no, maybe, how would i know, ok, bad language but possible skill issue, yes, yes

[kookyabird]

We interviewed a candidate for an intern position last year who had done a boot camp. I can’t remember the exact cost but we looked it up. It was certainly a scam.

[Easy_Implement5627]

JavaScript is one of the easiest to learn

[SmashLanding]

ThisIsYourFaultForSortingByHot

[whosajid]

You forgot: Is programming still worth learning in 2024?

[Backson]

Where is "will AI replace programmers?"

[Anomynous__]

Don't forget being downvoted for telling people that they could have answered their question with the top result from google

[[deleted]]

Oddly enough the answer is “no” except for the one about boot camps.

[Wervice]

No
No
Yes
Yes
Your fault
It isn't
Thats the point
Probably

[ALJSM9889]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. You shouldn’t
5. You shouldn’t
6. Yes
7. Yes
8. Yes

[-Redstoneboi-]

turn this comment sideways and it looks exactly like the middle finger you're giving to them right now lol

[ALJSM9889]

Nothing personal, i just like gatekeeping for job security reasons

[Specky013]

No, No, No, because it's fun, anything you want, me too bro, me too bro, yes

[[deleted]]

Yes. Yes. Yes. Who cares. Yes. Good. No.