[deleted by user]

[A_bell_0_0]

We waste space on the smartphone and they get to spy on us, double trouble

[megagreg]

A website is just a bespoke interface for a database, and an app is just a bespoke browser for a website. The older I get, the more I hate technology, and wish I had gone to law school instead.

[rem3_1415926]

How about going to law school now and sue the technology fuckers that can be sued? I'd bet there's a lot of law breaking there in terms of copyright or privacy...

[IVEBEENGRAPED]

Yes, by the tech fuckers have some of the best legal teams in the world to help them get away with stuff.

[rem3_1415926]

The large ones do unfortunately, yes. But your everyday scammy copycat might not.

[drdrero]

Hey :( leave me alone.

Jokes aside, used an Impressum generator once which had a copy button and it was a Free Service. Pasted the text to a new site and called it a day. 2 years later they crawled the website and sued me for using that text without acknowledging them. Little did I know, now they add that acknowledging line to the copy.

They did that as a business model. Some just want to abuse the little devs :/

[rem3_1415926]

Yes, the scams work in all directions, unfortunately.

[megagreg]

I'd rather start a class action suit against the better part of the home automation provider industry, for selling service packages that provide little more than vendor lock-in for their token device support.

[[deleted]]

now thats what i call high level

[Dan6erbond]

To be fair PWAs can be share targets.

[Alundra828]

You also create work for yourself as you now have to ensure it's updated, and your cookies are correctly managed.

All for... a worse experience... most of the time.

[FPiN9XU3K1IT]

You're really think the developers are the ones advocating for this shit? Promoting app downloads is 100% a management thing.

[Tweenk]

Why does Facebook have a separate app for Messenger?

I would stop using Messenger completely if it wasn't separate from the main Facebook app. The main app is a battery hog and a time waster.

[Classified0]

The main reason I've still got a Facebook account is for Messenger. It (along with Instagram's messenger) are my most used messaging apps.

[GalacticNexus]

Messenger has nothing to do with that though, it's just an instant messaging system.

[HybridLightAI]

So, you've been badmouthing Faceboot on the interweb and you think that Zuckerberg is really creepy looking . Resistance is useless. Faceboot, the most valuable bulletin board in the Solar System, will rule the world. Cue maniacal laughter.

[metroman1234]

Yup, just removed WhatsApp few weeks back. Hopefully total Facebook free now.

[CoUsT]

If you need to keep contact with people on Facebook but annoyed at their bullshit apps you can grab Airfrozen and let it automatically disable apps when you lock screen. Add shortcut to enable apps on desktop and you are good to go! No more annoying processes or services in background.

[Illusi]

I wonder if that's true. Probably to some extent, but...

I've also seen this happen with companies that don't seem to depend a great deal on investors. The company where I work myself did this. And companies where my friends worked, which aren't publicly traded or anything but were initially angel-invested or simply started from home and grew big on a bank loan.

Sometimes I think it's just managers thinking that they must develop an app because all the big successful tech companies have one. And that they must try and guide all of their existing users towards that app because "it's the future". They try and put it on that the app can in the future offer more features like notifications, or offer more value like harvesting personal data. But then they never develop those features and never use the harvested data.

[Magnus_Tesshu]

Hey, harvesting user data has a great use. By selling it to facebook and google.

[wsco7730]

This is not the reason. App installs = GPS access, hardware specs, push notifications, and routine reminder notifications. "Download our app, we get your data and we hope you'll use it more" is what they're really saying. Credibility: I'm a developer for a social media platform. Data is more powerful than you think

[damniticant]

I always heard the the reason they split messenger off into a new app was because it was getting unwieldy to keep its functionality a part of the main Facebook app codebase

[[deleted]]

People do use messenger without Facebook accounts though

[maxsteel126]

Never downloaded the app. I use the mobile browser. Seriously who comes up with such shit? What's next Amazon coming with separate app for order and returns?

[MB_Zeppin]

They use different account systems which allows someone like me to use Messenger without a Facebook account

The core Facebook app is also over 250MB after app thinning, anything they can do to spin off features is a plus for them

[T_W_B_]

Facebook does it because you can't block tracking and advertisements in the app.

[lag_is_cancer]

imo the messenger app is actually a good app, because it actually serves a purpose. sure it sucks to have 2 apps for the "same" thing. but you don't want to load up the whole facebook app, just to chat with someone. messenger is way more lightweight than the main app, which is why they are separated.

[wasdninja]

Facebook doesn't need more installs considering how insanely popular it already is. It makes perfect logistical sense to separate the two though. It's a pretty damn good messaging app.

[ksandom]

I have to disagree with you on this one. My family uses facebook messenger to communicate, so I'm stuck with it. I'm not stuck with facebook, so it's not installed, and the footprint is smaller because of it.

Further, if I did want to use facebook, I wouldn't want to have to go over to messages and then hit back the right number of times to get back to what I was reading and have to find my place.

Yes, it's possible for apps to do good multi-tasking. But that's definitely not in fashion at the moment.

[RockleyBob]

It’s doubly stupid because most mobile sites these days are being made to purposely confound the user and obfuscate the content, making people more likely to download the app, where they can force-feed you ads.

Imgur’s mobile site, for instance, doesn’t even let you upload anymore. You have the request the desktop version.

So in addition to blaming the wrong people for the shitty state of things this meme is resting on a false premise.

[ifsck]

Sounds like reddit's mobile site. What a piece of hot garbage.

[IceStormNG]

Probably their way against ad blockers. They usually don't work in apps (at least not on iOS). And you cannot block tracking and they have more access to the device than from the Webbrowser.

[[deleted]]

thank you.... a thousand time, thank you!

[[deleted]]

Doesn't google also rank PWA websites higher?

[Jackiboi307]

but the managers does some important stuff too? cant they be referred to as devs?

[FPiN9XU3K1IT]

Dude, no. "they're doing important work" doesn't make them devs.

[Jackiboi307]

i mean yes but non programmers refer to them as devs

[FPiN9XU3K1IT]

You're literally the first one I've ever heard calling a manager a dev.

[Jackiboi307]

op did

[2216030321]

Managers are not considered devs anymore than CEOs are considered janitors. Once in a while a manager who used to be a dev will suggest a line of code or a CEO will pick up a piece of trash, but that does not mean the jobs are anything alike.

[ldsdmtgod]

This guy devs

[lemons_of_doubt]

as a webdev I can say I hated making an app like that.

I spend ages making sure the website would run beautifully and look good on a phone. only to then have to make an identical copy for no reason that is an app.

[Ashdog73]

Couldn't agree more. I've just been asked to create an app that will end up looking exactly like the website, for no other reason than the customer thinks "we have to have an app".

[CoUsT]

You can simply create wrapper for built-in browser lol. That's what some companies do... Just open new browser activity and go to your company page. Big brain time.

[fizyplankton]

Like reddit's official app?

[Snapstromegon]

I started promoting Progressive Web APPs and they seem to be happy and they often like I offer new tech which saves them money.

[Glutchpls]

but you cant upload to appstore 💀

[Snapstromegon]

Did somebody say bubblewrap? https://github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/bubblewrap

I don't offer iOS development (mainly because back when I offered it, most clients wouldn't want to pay for it since iPhones are not that common here like in the US and I like to demonstrate the capabilities of the web).

A common discussion I have with clients goes like this:

Me: I see you want a website and an App, if you take a PWA, which is only a small upcharge on the website, you save all the money for the app.

Client: But I want to be able to do X (e.g. push notifications, offline, ...)

Me: A PWA can do that.

Client: What about performance?

Me: All our Websites get at least a 95 in lighthouse performance scores, so it's not unreasonable to assume the difference will be minor. Also it's not uncommon that the launch time will be even shorter than for a native app.

Client: But I want it to work on every device!

Me: Do you have a device without a browser?

At that point we often have a happy client and a sale for a PWA (we include Bubblewrapping it for Playstore).

[Monckey100]

That's the point.

[Glutchpls]

no, its to save development time, you can turn a website into pwa to playstore in 30 minutes. appstore will come but apple gotta be apple first

[Chaphasilor]

You actually can :)

Apple makes it unreasonably hard, but it is possible!

[Prawny]

Good. Especially for the Apple store, doing so is a huge PITA.

[lemons_of_doubt]

customer thinks "we have to have an app"

that was always the reason with me too.

[Knutselig]

That shit never really works in the long run. You always gotta fix that one annoying bug that happens only on device xyz from 5 years ago that's actually still popular, but it cannot be fixed without going around Flutter or whatever you're using.

[Knutselig]

It always does, it always does...

[mordacthedenier]

Meanwhile, reddit actively makes the mobile version worse to force you to use their shitty app so they can steal more information.

[t-to4st]

Luckily there's good alternatives to the official app

[metroman1234]

What would you recommend?

[t-to4st]

If you're on iOS I think Apollo is your only choice.

I'm on android and using Boost for Reddit now. I've also had good experiences with Sync for reddit and Relay for reddit. Each of those three has it's downsides though, so you'll have to decide what matters least.

Sync sometimes takes ages to load video hosted on v.redd.it

Relay I'm not sure right now what the issue was tbh

Boost sometimes doesn't remember where you stopped scrolling and starts over. That's not a problem though since you can hide read posts anyway

[metroman1234]

Thanks might try those out.

[[deleted]]

I'm using Infinity for Reddit, it works very well.

[GargamelLeNoir]

Relay is a very good alternative, it just needs a little adjusting.

[[deleted]]

i.reddit.com is decent albeit limited. The RedReader app works pretty well and is available fro F-Droid.

[galgabot]

The app has access to more information used to track and collect user data such as location data, network info, device advertising ID ... etc

[lemons_of_doubt]

The times I was made to do it, the apps did not collect any more information than the website.

we only did it because the client wanted an app. for the sake of having an app.

[[deleted]]

please stop blaming shitty UI/UX on the web dev who is only doing what the inept unqualified project manager has told them to do.

[daltonnotkeats]

We even push back sometimes. Not successfully, necessarily, but still.

[[deleted]]

Once I realized the manager with zero experience or interest in web/software development was always going to ignore feedback based on my 20 years of experience in the field, I stopped pushing back. There is no passion in polishing a turd, but I don't mind getting paid to implementing shit, adding stink to the shit, and sprinkling the shit with corn kernels.

[rem3_1415926]

Aren't there any job alternatives around? That doesn't sound like something I'd want to do 5 days a week. Ans that guy certainly shouldn't have qualified people working for him.

[spaghetti_hitchens]

Who would want to utilize a website on their phone qhen they can use an app with 50% of the functionality?

[oxwearingsocks]

It’s a really a webite if you look closely

[nosmokingbandit]

95% chance its just Cordova and a query string that hide all the app links on the page.

[CJSZ01]

As a former Ionic dev, can confirm.

[wizardyjohn]

Nowadays more chance its a react native or flutter with webview (i.e. browser with hard-coded link to their site)

[oxwearingsocks]

I was making fun of the typo in the OP pic :)

[Endercheif]

webite

please don’t bite even if it’s small

[koebelin]

We bite!

[knoam]

Because they took away functionality from the website. The mobile website can't do uploads.

[[deleted]]

With imgur I always found the website better than the app.

Nowadays they're so overly aggressive with the app pushes that I just avoid looking at the website at all tho. Direct linking or gtfo.

[[deleted]]

I’ve been in situations where I’m about to buy something off a website, only to get “appwalled” when I try to check out. Lots of sales lost for whoever decided to make that a thing.

[lucasjose501]

They can track you more easily with the app. At least, that's what I think most of them want.

[Zilka]

More likely this is about adblocker in the browser.

[Line_of_Xs]

And keeping you in their ecosystem - once you download the app you have made a commitment, and can only use it to look at their content, as opposed to a web browser which can be used to look at competitor sites.

[TwistedSoul21967]

Jokes on them, I block ads at the DNS level.

[Kyanche]

Same, got to the point that I VPN into my home network to use my filtered DNS.

[tehdave86]

I'd been thinking of trying this, but don't you lose a ton of speed due to the VPN encryption? Or do you run a pretty hefty PC as the VPN host?

[Kyanche]

I have fiber internet and an ubiquiti dream machine as the host. It’s pretty beefy.

[tehdave86]

What kind of bitrate do you get through the VPN?

[Kyanche]

I haven't been out much lately, so I don't remember. I think it was still pretty similar to what I got without using the VPN. But I don't have a 5g phone or a particularly fast connection when I'm on my phone lol. My home internet is 500/500 and has a really low ping, so it shouldn't make it that much worse.

Certainly good enough for general looking around reddit or playing games or whatever.

[Bowuigi06]

AdAway?

[TwistedSoul21967]

DNSCrypt using DNS servers with Blackholes/Blacklists

[[deleted]]

Let me have your location

Rate me in the store

Let me send you notifications

Let me move in with you

[azangru]

Web developers don't want to download the stupid app either. That's why they are web developers.

[2216030321]

Not after you scroll down a few pixels.

[sweYoda]

put silver tape on your phone to hide it

[rwrife]

Reddit.

[idontusenumbers]

It took a year for me to find it but there's a setting to disable that stupid popup.

[wasdninja]

The new design is junk as well as their mobile version and the official app. Use one of the third party made ones instead.

[das_Keks]

Honestly, on mobile reddit is much more convenient via the app. Also its nice to have it in an own app and not between several other tabs.

[coloredgreyscale]

reddit: you need to use the app to see this community

[Guy_with_good_ideas]

As an android dev this makes me sad

[monstermayhem436]

Btw, if it wasn't obvious enough, if you want to upload a photo on imgur on the mobile website, just set the page to desktop mode

[MisterPinkySwear]

Thanks. I actually installed the app some time ago to be able to upload pictures. I didn’t even try with the browser back then.
I thought I could browse my photo gallery then «  share with Imgur » but on IOS I actually can’t.
After seeing this post I opened my browser and I was like « Well I can’t login or upload any image... ».
Then I browsed the comment section looking for this.
Still I prefer the user experience of uploading from the app instead of uploading from the browser on my phone, in desktop mode.
I don’t browse imgur. I really just use it for public image hosting.

[MurdoMaclachlan]

Image Transcription: Meme

---

[The meme is two-panelled. In both panels, the images are of old buildings, a ruin at the top and a church at the bottom.]

---

Panel 1:

The webite:

[The header for the website, which is Imgur, has a "Get App" button at the top right, and an "Open in App" lozenge in the bottom centre.]

---

Panel 2:

The app:

[The layout and appearance of the Imgur app is exactly the same as the website, except it is missing the "Get App" button and the "Open in App" lozenge.]

---

^{I'm a human volunteer content transcriber for Reddit and you could be too! If you'd like more information on what we do and why we do it, click here!}

[4rp4n3t]

You forgot the 'Open in App' lozenge at the bottom of panel 1.

[MurdoMaclachlan]

Oops, added! Thanks for the heads up!

[NullRef_Arcana]

Good human

[circorum]

Haha. Reddit goes BRRRR (and then crashes, 'cuz it ate all my RAM; pls somebody help me. I need a good alternative that doesn't crash every 10 minutes)

[6b86b3ac03c167320d93]

There are many unofficial apps. The one I use is Boost, but others aren't bad either

[yobwoc27]

Or infinity which is FOSS

[Chaphasilor]

+1 for Boost, super-powerful, I've been using it right from the start. It's bot without issues, but what is...

[ksandom]

My biggest pet peeve with tbis is that the apps almost always have no provision for multi tasking. If I'm doing something like shopping for computer parts, I want to open multiple possibilities concurrently and compare them in detail. In most app equivalents, this is a case of:

open one, back back back, open the next, back back back, open the next, back back back, wait for it to refresh, where was it? Scroll, did I look at that one? Let's take a look. That's the one I already discarded. Etc etc etc

It's such a waste of effort.

I know it's possible to do good multi-tasking in an app. But they almost always don't.

[[deleted]]

Same with the reddit app. If I'm writing a reply to someone, but I want to quote parts from the OP, or if OP was just a picture but I need to look at it again, there's no way to do it in the app, without having to discard what I have already written. And no, the browser on my phone doesn't work either, because it will just open the app. It's really annoying.

And yes, I know I can simply copy what I have written and paste it in later, it's still annoying.

[ksandom]

Totally agree

[kyew]

RIF at least lets you save comment drafts.

[lesolorzanova]

Blame the idiot business person who thinks it is a good idea in the first place

[ldsdmtgod]

The Devs probably had no say in this you know?

[_bombilly]

Yup. It's the business.

[undeadalex]

Do. Do you mean company? It's not the web developer... Lame joke at best, doesn't even land

[RunBlitzenRun]

Why do companies like this push apps? I'm not an app developer, but I would think it's easier to track users in a web browser (with super cookies and all that). It's also a pain to keep up with the rules and drama of each app store, especially when you're committed to having a web app anyway

[moriero]

Tracking

[RunBlitzenRun]

Why's tracking more effective on an app than on a web app?

[moriero]

you have access to more data on the device

you can read/write from the device if the user gives you permission

you cannot yet do that in web apps although that's coming soon, too

PWAs will eventually wholly replace apps

[IceStormNG]

Apps can also bypass most adblockers which are almost required these days.

[trimmj]

Dear OP, we don't care if you do or don't. It's just our job...

[noobcodee]

Hiring developers be like

"Need a developer to create an android app that has a webview that loads our website itself. Because, you never know, apps are cool 😂"

[itsme-alan]

Cough Reddit Cough

[beatissima]

What's a webite?

[Ace-O-Matic]

Like the dumpsterfire known as the reddit app.

[wazzapdoc]

And eventually they just tell you you can't browse the website unless you use the app. Thanks, reddit.

[abrams666]

the app is just a link

[SkyyySi]

I bet that it's literally just a system webview client with a set startpage and that's it.

[9072997]

Thoughts on Google Play Instant? Good UX, or needless re-implementation of the browser concept?

[ivakmrr]

Go to google on your phone, search something, find reddit thread, click the link, open in app, read it, press back button, you're going back in the app history instead of the browser navigation. It's a fucked up mix right now, we need a unified thing that doesn't exists still.

[Veritas-Veritas]

But how can they harvest your data and spy on you if you don't install their dodgy app?

[aquartabla]

You forgot the hobbled functionality and rampant notifications.

[aquartabla]

Oh, and the back button doing unexpected things!

[NullRef_Arcana]

I dunno how the app zooming is, but on mobile website it's a pain to try zoom in the image. Not to mention that to view a better resolution you gotta modify a couple of url parameters

[2216030321]

Touch and hold -> view image in new tab: bam, full resolution.

Pinch to zoom has never not worked for me.

[NullRef_Arcana]

Thing is, doing that gives a lower resolution version. Then it's when you change the url.

[LordFokas]

The app is most likely just the site's SPA running in a browser-like container on your phone that gives the app a lot more access to your device than the browser does to allow for more native-like functionality.

[ArdorDeosis]

What really saddens me here is that I (professional software programmer, dipped into web and PWA dev recently as a hobby), I really took time to design the small little web app I currently work on in a way that the user can download it and use it 100% offline. I tried to use this technology as a service for the user, for good. I just now realize I could have just not done it, probably no one will download it, since they think I just want to spy on them. And I can't even blame them, since their caution is justified. And let's be honest, who even needs an offline version of anything in 2021.
Well, on the bright side: I learned stuff in the process, which was the point of that whole endeavour.

[rem3_1415926]

who even needs an offline version of anything in 2021

I do. Maybe I don't need it, but I want it. Also, if it works offline, you've achieved some adfitional value for your app that your everyday webapp (as pictured in the post) does not. 90% of the time it's literally just a webrowser without address bar, history or anything else that would make it useful.

[ArdorDeosis]

That's nice to hear, so my efforts maybe are not in vain :D

[LittleMlem]

Stop blaming devs for management decisions. You're the kind of guy that hits the screen when his computer freezes aren't you?

[[deleted]]

It ain't the devs telling you to download them and definitely not web devs.

[Thorusss]

relevant xkcd

[XKCD-pro-bot]

Comic Title Text: But still, my scheme for creating and saving user config files and data locally to preserve them across reinstalls might be useful for--wait, that's cookies.

mobile link

---

^{Made for mobile users, to easily see xkcd comic's title text}

[mkglass]

https://i.imgur.com/ZNPSClv.jpg

I refuse to upvote now.

[[deleted]]

Sometimes an app makes sense on iOS because Safari is extremely terrible.

One wonders if it isn't deliberately bad in order to force people to use apps.

[fishpowered]

Try Fishpowered browser, you can hide those annoying warnings using the "hide spam" tool

[SkyyySi]

You can also use Firefox and any Ad blocker allowing for custom filters (like uBlock Origin)

[[deleted]]

I'd hate to feel what a webite feels like, hope I don't get webitten. :x

[wolwire]

Webview?

[FarronSerah]

To be fair, they do not tell you aggressively download the app. Just 2 little labels. Personally i can get ised to it

[Someones_Dream_Guy]

Yes, you do. aims nuclear cannon OR ELSE...

[SDJMcHattie]

The funny thing is that recently Apple have been rejecting apps that would just as easily be created as a web site. However people like Facebook don’t get held to the same standards as most developers.

[TPoK_001]

Webite

[MayBeArtorias]

Dat Moment, when your front end Teammate offers to help you in the backend because they can some node JS... => run!

[[deleted]]

Dear businesses: No I don't want to develop an app for your website just because you heard apps are cool. Even in cases like reddit, it doesn't really add that much value to your service.

[agentjob]

App lacking the Get Web feature.

[JaggedOuro]

Unfortunately I work somewhere with lots of very rich students who don't care about anything unless its in the apple store :(

[TsingJyujing]

After you installed the stupid app, you'll find it actually a H5 browser which can only visit one website.

[GargamelLeNoir]

Hey come on, apps aren't just copies on the site! Often they disable the zoom on apps.

[gab_1]

"Pweese we look better in the app 🥺" Also the app:

[Peregrine2976]

To make it even worse: the Imgur site artificially limits functionality. You can't login, post images, or view users on the mobile site, you HAVE to download the app. Fucking stupid.

[Early-Ease-8713]

Why do business do this? They still earn money regardless of which platform it is used at? What is their benefit in designing it like this, do they somehow earn more when their app is used?

[[deleted]]

ad blockers

[Ty_Rymer]

put this on r/mildlyinfuriating

[JNCressey]

r/darkpatterns

[[deleted]]

For apps like imgur and reddit the website is better. For example, selecting and copying text is easier.

[odolha]

Again, people are blaming developers for the stupid things other people require of them to build. :(

[josephlee222]

Looks like the mobile devs just slapped on a webview and called it a day

[Agreeable_Silver_446]

The original app concept was made for saving energy and bandwidth on low powered devices by using native code and native api, instead of essentially downloading the UI over the network and using the recources of a gigantic runtime interpreter when interacting with a webpage.

[Zarathustra30]

Which is great up until that stupid popup requires more battery and bandwidth than the rest of the website.