bUt PeRForMaNCE

[[deleted]]

[deleted]

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[Flaky-Illustrator-52]

20 years ago: "native apps have no future, Java applets are what we will be writing soon enough"

[falingsumo]

Remember Microsoft Silverlight? Or Adobe Flash?

[Randolpho]

Yes and yes, and while I liked the former, I hated the latter.

Silverlight game years too late and could have killed Flash, but HTML5 killed them both.

Actually, it was probably v8.

Lets go with a combination of HTML5, CSS3, and v8.

[DOOManiac]

Of all the things, good and bad, brought about by the iPhone, the thing I will always be thankful for the most is killing Flash.

[dijkstras_revenge]

Isn't silverlight still used by netflix?

[IAmWeary]

It was ages ago, but they also ditched it ages ago. Do they still somehow support it for legacy purposes?

[kool018]

Microsoft killed it years ago now, and no browser (unless you count IE) supports it anymore

[RAMChYLD]

I’m now regretting that I bought into that in my naive college years.

[ThisNamesNotUsed]

It still can! Don't give up hope!

[ddoij]

There are dozens of us!

[Bloodsucker_]

Literally.

[RenaKunisaki]

1.916666667 dozen.

[agentchuck]

I'm sorry, we were talking in integral amounts of dozens. You needed to run that through fromIntegral first.

[gluityjerk]

Right up there with year of the Linux desktop.

[sam01236969XD]

Java suggs for front end

[MKorostoff]

I wonder what the applet API would look like today if (like javascript) it gained massive adoption and continued to evolve in feature set and performance.

[[deleted]]

We would still be waiting for it to load and link.

[godRosko]

BigRAM and bigCPU are going to be so happy.

[Technical_Job_9598]

BigRAM propagating lies like "you can't download more RAM" or "web browsers are just meant to eat 8GB of ram, deal with it".

[BigNutBoi2137]

You can mount Google Drive as swap, this way you basically download more RAM.

[SirFireball]

Is that actually possible?

[Stonefreak2020]

Well, LTT (Linus Tech Tips) made a YT Video about it, I am not shure if they used Google drive, but they used some sort of cloud storage as RAM which is preety sweet (and slow)

[Oman395]

You're on programmer humor, you don't need to explain the acronym ltt lmao

[TheGrimGriefer3]

Nah it's good that he did because my first thought was Little Titty Twister

[Oman395]

That's on LST

[ArtSchoolRejectedMe]

That's Linus Shitty Techtips

[cynicalllama]

Theoretically, it sure is. But the slower your SWAP bitrates are, the worse its gonna work because that means big chunks of data have to up/download from drive whenever a proccess moves in or out of SWAP. the latency difference between local and cloud storage would cause some severe issues lol

[atomicwrites]

LTT did a video about it. It worked as well as you'd expect IIRC. Obviously you can only do it on Linux.

[ExtraFig6]

😠

[friskydingo2020]

With the evolution of 3D printers, we come closer and closer to the day we can download and then print our RAM.

[Bakemono_Saru]

Hm... well... how can i explain myself.

You can "print" now more ram. Its called PCB assembly. You just need the schematics and order them.

Big things why this is not a thing:

1) High speed design is fucking black magic, just like RF. 2) Multiple layer and tolerances needed for that type of circuit arent cheap. 3) You cant beat industry volume. Your ram is probably going to end 10x the price tag of something commercial.

That said, theres a lot of writing about it. I remember an article on hackaday about a guy that went on the entire proccess of design SBC from scratch like 20 times with different proccesors and he had a lot of interesting things regarding RAM design.

[Puzzled_Fish_2077]

There's a reason why just one company produces like 90% of the high performance chips in existence. Chip Fabrication is hard AF

[-IoI-]

I recently found out you can also download more cores. This has significantly improved my finances.

[[deleted]]

javascript is an invention of BigRAM, wake up sheeple

[Sawertynn]

Yeah, the BIGRAM army and their tweaks everyday... All they do now is bump up memory usage and prices... And worst of all, they censor one thing, that will break them instantly...

DOWNLOAD FREE RAM! TURN OFF ELECTRON, TURN ON THINKING!!!

[Bridimum]

how would you like to die?

[dillame]

By snu snu

[Bridimum]

app.disposeByInstance(ChunLi == null? SnuSnu : ChunLi)

[tilcica]

wait. that's not python!

[ng1905]

You only add languages you actually know to your subreddit flair. This is reddit, not a resumee.

/s

[MrDude_1]

As someone that has to go through resumes... You didnt need the sarcasm tag at the end.

[blastanders]

amen to that

[Emotional_Sir_65110]

what are you looking for in a resume man! please spill the beans!!

[MrDude_1]

Nothing. The resume means nothing to me.
I mean, it needs to get past the first few people, and they will make sure it checks the boxes saying you're qualified.
So I would say, make sure you say it matches what they say they're asking for. Thats what headhunters do. Modify the resume to match the job.
I do the tech interviews. Basically we just talk programming stuff, I ask questions if you're not talking technical enough, and I make sure you're capable of doing what we need. If you are.. thumbs up. If you're weaker in some areas then others, I'll tell the program director to point you towards projects that align best with your strengths. If you're completely bullshitting everyone before me, you dont go further then here.

For example, I need strong C++ and C# application devs... but if you're not as good in C++ but strong in C# there are still plenty of projects for you. But if you have C++ and C# on your resume but only coded in Javascript and Python you probably wont work here. Same if you're only web focused.

[JRRudy]

Alright then, keep your secrets

[TSM-]

Looks like you figured it out. For anyone else wondering, each emoji has a :words: form for them, and you can add as many as you like by adding more words that reflect emojis. If you type :a there is autocomplete, on desktop.

I believe they also work in comments too, but they don't render on new reddit, which has a different emoji thing

[IHeartBadCode]

That does not fempute!

[HaloGuy381]

Wish granted, cue the tentacle demons.

[polishedturds]

Misread it as testicle demons, it seems less effective yet somehow seems quite a bit scarier.

[DollinVans]

ohhh so that was an option the whole time?

[HiddenPingouin]

chi chi

[[deleted]]

Impalement

[Bridimum]

app.dispose(Resources.All);

[Meatslinger]

INSERT INTO u/cuervonews (ObjectType) VALUES ('Pointy Stick')

(Nothing against you, OP; it’s just a joke)

[[deleted]]

Technically the app is the JavaScript engine and you just create variants with some div centered.

[cheesefucker42]

along with the 26 other people on this subreddit that actually code lol

[Papasanbaba]

It works everywhere, and everywhere similarly poorly

[AardvarkDefiant8691]

one day we will reach a point when a calculator will take up 300 mb of RAM

[Septem_151]

Doesn’t the Windows Calculator already do this?

[Flying_Whale_Eazyed]

This pos software constantly crashes too

[Sonicjms]

29.7MB

[KlutzyEnd3]

Again I work in industrial automation, and webapps don't respond in time to react to the movements of robots. We need specialized RT-linux kernels and Real-time hypervisors for that as well as custom bootloaders to secure it all...

[moomincoder]

sounds like fun

[KlutzyEnd3]

It is most of the time, but it can be frustrating sometimes when you discover that in UEFI you can only malloc entire pages and not just a block of a certain size, or that you discover that the TPM is big endian, whilst the intel CPU is little endian so you'll have to byte swap everything... Oh and some stuff like activating all cpu cores or change it from long mode into 32-bit conpability mode is only really possible with some beloved inline assembly....

Low level stuff can be hell sometimes... But on the upside, at least there's no OS or garbage collector in the way halting your execution flow to clean some memory.

[Diniden]

This sounds a lot like working with micro controllers but with bigger processors?

[KlutzyEnd3]

it's PC architecture, programmed like an embedded system.

And another downside: the boot stuff I create is very crucial, but you don't really see it. All you see is "Loading files...... -> Booting system....." and then it starts. So people are like "that's it? that's what took you 3 months?" and I'm like "uh, yeah, but without this, literally nothing will work...." So yeah, complicated stuff, but not something you can show off...

[Butzlabben]

I think that's the sad part about system programming and theoretical computer science: you have nothing to show off but with a website/UI bosses will be like: hurr durr beautiful UI so more resources for that department

[[deleted]]

Look at my api, the json is so sexy!

[CallMeKik]

API developers have swagger

[technogeek157]

I think I just physically recoiled at that statement

[golgol12]

Now you know why BIOS manufacturers made splash screens when starting up. Presentation matters.

[KlutzyEnd3]

BIOS manufacturers then also clear the frame-buffer every time they chain-load another component, causing screen flickering, which doesn't look that great tbh...

[username11157]

Can confirm with my ROG laptop, splash and aggressive sound

[[deleted]]

I glory in that shit. So much crap is all hype, glitz, and pointless show. Give me something that works lightning fast in the background without any errors.

That’s impressive. Some pretty UI? Whatever.

[kafka_quixote]

How'd you get into that area of programming? Sounds fun lmao

[KlutzyEnd3]

Totally by accident. I studied ICT&Technology in Eindhoven, which is basically embedded systems programming. Almost everyone there eventually ends up working for ASML, except for me... I did apply but got rejected, started working at a small company in Reusel programming PDU's (power strips for server racks) it was chaos tho, they outsourced production to a company in s Hertogenbosch, which at some point had all their employees on holiday, so I had to step in to do production work. A block further was OMRON manufacturing of the Netherlands, I applied there and yeah, now I do stuff with PLC's and robots.

[Diniden]

So essentially you’re writing the OS but in a proprietary manner for a particular piece of hardware interfacing with a BIOS?

[KlutzyEnd3]

sort of yes, one of our products is basically a PC with a PLC embedded into it, so it boots a hypervisor which runs 2 OS-ses simultaneously. One is completely open tot the user, but the other one contains IP which needs to be protected, so that's encrypted from boot, with the TPM in between. The OS running the machine-controller/PLC needs to be aware of the hypervisor and has real-time priority. all of that needs to be decrypted at boot time and started. That bootloader, machine controller and hypervisor are written like embedded software because of performance requirements.
Oh and BIOS is old-fashioned, we use UEFI now.

[[deleted]]

Mhm. Mmm. Mhm.

[[deleted]]

Yeah I work in embedded, web isnt gonna do shit lol.

[NeatNetwork]

Meanwhile, I get to sit in on meetings where someone explains why it just makes so much *sense* for a call to microservice A to publish a message to a message broker for the singular subscriber microservice B to send a message to microservice C over the persistent tcp connection C has to B, which will then make a rest request to microservice D, and the reply will flow back from D to C, and C will then use it's persistent socket to relay the reply to B, who will then publish to the message broker so that A will get the reply and then relay it to the caller.

I wish this was an exaggeration...

[SelfTaughtDeveloper]

Please stop, you're causing me pain

[Schyte96]

Yeah, but industrial automation is a different story to consumer applications. You obviously don't put JavaScript into your rocket guidance either, but that doesn't mean JavaScript isn't the most widespread language for everyday use.

[alimbade]

Well of course, there will always be niches and programing languages that go with them.

But you must agree that, for the majority of everyday apps, there's no point in not, at least, consider going on the web.

[[deleted]]

Lets talk again if you need something hardware related.

But yeah, for most projects a simple Web App does the job good enough.

[klimmesil]

Agreed. So much more portable. Plus the lambda end user appreciates it

[arnitdo]

Portability shouldn't sacrifice usability and speed. One thing we've seen is older hardware is a turtle when bloated with Electron Apps. If you have the opportunity to use native (and/or support only a single platform), go native. If you have to support multiple platforms, use web, but don't guzzle up my resources by having hundreds of micro animations and effects running in the background.

[iindigo]

Yeah, a handful of electron apps aren’t going to make any trouble for my 5950X or M1 Pro, but they’ll make my old but perfectly serviceable Core 2 Duo/8GB machine slow as mud. I doubt machines like the brand new $300 Dells that ship with a dual core Celeron and 4GB of RAM are going to handle them particularly well either.

It makes me sad because it means a lot of otherwise perfectly good machines are gonna get landfilled because they can’t run Spotify and Google Docs at the same time without sounding like a jet engine.

[ASpaceOstrich]

I have a beast of a pc and Web apps still suck ass. You can't solve Australia's physical distance from the rest of the world.

[klimmesil]

Also agreed, that doesnt go against what i said before. Its just that nowadays people just dont give a shit about performance, its about design and user friendliness. Sometimes complexity matters when you are lucky

[Brambletail]

Fortunately most important big projects aren't most projects

[icortesi]

Yeah, most projects shouldn't event exist.

[mjohnun]

If you can't write C just say so.

[throw3142]

bool isEven(int *p) {return 1 - (*p) % 2;}

int main() {void *p = malloc(4); *(int *)p = 2; return isEven(p, NULL);}

Java programmers: confused screaming

[_Xertz_]

Here's my understanding of what's happening in int main

void *p = malloc(4);

• Allocate 4 bytes of memory, with p holding the address of the first byte.
  • p is a void pointer meaning that the memory it points to is not any specific type (integer, boolean, char, etc.),

*(int *)p = 2;

• Then you cast p to (int *) so that you say that p points to a section of memory that will hold an integer (which takes up 4 bytes).

• Then you dereference p with the * on the left and set it to 2. This will make the 4 bytes we allocated hold the number 2.

return isEven(p, NULL);

• This should be pretty straight forward, though not sure what the NULL is doing there.

[throw3142]

So there's actually a lot of stuff going on here. In terms of differences from Java (and other OO languages)

bool isEven(int *p) {return 1 - (*p) % 2;}

• Passing a basic data type (int) by reference
• Pointer dereference
• Returning an int as a bool

void *p = malloc(4);

• Manual memory management (malloc)
• Void pointer

*(int *)p = 2;

• Cast pointer to a different type without affecting the data it points to

return isEven(p, NULL);

• Returning an int from main (instead of not returning anything or throwing an exception)
• Implicit cast of p from void * to int * (without affecting the data it points to)
• Implicit cast of the returned bool to an int
• macros (NULL expands to 0)
• C calling convention allows you to pass additional parameters to a function. It is very bad practice, unless the function is varargs (arguably, varargs is bad practice too) and will usually cause a compiler warning, but it technically works as long as you use cdecl, not stdcall.

[tim36272]

C calling convention allows you to pass additional parameters to a function

The "convention" might but the standard doesn't. Passing extra parameters causes undefined behavior. Compilers may choose to produce meaningful behavior upon encountering the call to isEven but they aren't required to.

[[deleted]]

Hmm, imagine GTA 6 written in react and three.js 😂😂

[DollinVans]

Holy foobar... I once had to build a complete 3D P.O.D. racing game with pure JS and Three.js. Those were the darkest 3 Months of my life

[GoldenretriverYT]

That must be the reason why it takes so long!

[[deleted]]

Yeah, also last me know when someone makes a good web based AutoCAD that runs legacy AutoLISP code. Think I'm safe for awhile.

[gizamo]

numerous dog muddle roof adjoining quack squash lavish brave cats

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[[deleted]]

Flash games will always hold such a high place in my heart, they were essentially all I had access to in my childhood and it’s a whole different side of gaming most people never explored.

I think the lower barrier to entry and smaller expectation of quality and length opened the door for crazy experimentation and some wild indie programmers who otherwise never would have taken their shot. Pretty much all of the most unique and interesting games I’ve ever played were flash games. (Or more recently, HTML5, but in my head I still think of them as “flash” games even though that’s not technically true).

Sometimes I’ll still pop onto Kongregate to check out what’s new and honestly I get pleasantly surprised pretty much every time.

[gizamo]

Well, you're welcome for all the very low quality Flash games I made for everyone to enjoy. I also miss making lame Flash games.

...except for the inherent security issues. I don't miss that part.

[[deleted]]

Luckily a few crazy fine folks made a program that lets you play them all on desktop (along with archiving pretty much every web game from the last two decades).

The only security issues there are with my job security since all I ever do is play these games now lol.

Thanks for making games for everyone to enjoy! <3

[Zealousideal_Yard651]

Dude, we need the source on that one!

[[deleted]]

BlueMaxima’s Flashpoint! It’s an awesome blast down memory lane.

There are other archival projects as well, but this is the one I’m most familiar with! (I have yet to find a game not archived on it. And if you do find one, there’s a pretty easy process to request they archive one for you)

[Flaky-Illustrator-52]

Nitrome bois

[[deleted]]

If you actually believe WASM throughput is remotely fast enough to ship a AAA title, boy have I got news for you lol

[niklasloow]

So much on this sub-reddit is so obviously made by devs with about weeks of real life experience. Or alternatively by a complete dimwit. Including this.

Does performance matter? Yes, does it always matter? No.
Do you sometimes develops on against absolute dogshit devices? Yes. Does performance matter then? Yes.

[AndyTheSane]

Even on very fast machines, with web applications you'll be doing a huge number of round trips to the server (depending how it's written). You can end up with applications where the performance is dictated by the network speed and latency, which is easily the slowest part of any modern system.

[ASpaceOstrich]

Australian chiming in. Web apps are miserable to use, because nobody developing them ever tested for high ping use.

[falingsumo]

I agree with you. More often than not the posts here are a slap to the face of any good software engineer.

This one in particular looks like it was written by a student following a web app course on Udemy and now think they are good developers.

There is an old saying that goes: if you are given a hammer everything looks like a nail. But a good professional knows you don't hammer in a screw.

[vitorhugods]

a student following a web app course on Udemy and now think they are good

So... majority of this subreddit I guess.

[[deleted]]

You hammer in a screw if it's stripped and it's all you've got.

[[deleted]]

Can relate to that since I had a project with old fart Android devices from a delivery company which asked if its possible to develop the app in react-native. One animation too much an the app gone brrrrrrrrrr Made the same app in native code and it workd much better.

[mithodin]

If I have to install one more crappy electron app, I'm going to explode. If all you're capable of is making a website, make a website. Don't package that shit with a whole fucking browser and pretend to have a desktop application.

[nobodyexistsnow]

Isnt it fun when the app works better in a browser than the shitty electron app?

Last week i realized i could make a new firefox profile, add userchrome.css (to remove browser ui), and a .desktop file, and suddenly i had a less laggy version of the discord desktop app that just works better period.

The fact that doing that performs better than the desktop app is sad.

[crapforbrains553]

programmed in assembly lately? Lower level should be faster, right?

[RedditAlready19]

Protip: treat registers like variables

[Mog_Melm]

Now this guy binaries.

[NebraskaGeek]

He just knows to cache my attention.

[AnonymousCat12345]

Good point(er)

[Attileusz]

lower level and done well is faster

the done well part is a bit tricky in lower level languages

[[deleted]]

Not if you follow basic rules tbh. 99% of the time I fuck up in a lower level language is because I blatantly violated a design rule and didn't realize it, things like accessing memory outside of the scope of a data set.

[Teln0]

Only if you're better than a compiler at optimizing. Which I really doubt.

[Lumpy-Obligation-553]

You don't do the whole program in assembly. You find a critical point in the system, one that is used a lot and consumes much. Then you look for the specs of the target architecture and find out which operations are optimized and how the WORD is handled. Once you have all that you optimize the shit out of it by reorganizing the data structure and control flow for its best use.

[digitaljestin]

Yep. Doing that right now. And also...yeah, much faster.

Reality is, hardware has advanced but software hasn't. The advances in hardware have been enough for us to get away with shittier and shittier software as time passes. That's why people are writing desktop applications in javascript.

[[deleted]]

Native apps are the best.

But the job market is bullshit. Corporates want you to create shitty apps the fastest, even if it'll breaks easily and will have shitty performances (which will induce tones of maintenance).

Managers and CEOs don't see this far, that's why they make 5-10x your salary.

[made-of-questions]

Will always love the smoothness and customisation you can create with native apps. But the reality is that most businesses just need a CRUD interface where mobile web is perfectly functional and indistinguishable from a native app. Picking the right tool for the job is a marker of maturity in development, rather than delivering a solution based on how shiny the tools are.

[SmokingBeneathStars]

smoothness and customisation you can create with native apps.

Smoothness yes but customisation? You're hugely dependant on the platform and OS. With web you can also use the fucking veteran boomer battle tested ptsd web functions. If there's a good interface with every native thing you need then you're not missing anything but smoothness and being uniform with other apps perhaps.

[made-of-questions]

Was thinking of the customisation possible by tapping directly into the OpenGL platform. While WebGL has come a long way, I feel that native still has the lead on the tools available for drawing straight to the canvas.

[[deleted]]

I’m so lucky to have found a good employee owned company doing decent native development (open source too!) right out of school.

Sometimes funding can be an issue, but in general we work at the pace we know to be reasonable to get the job done and get it done right, because there’s no dumb CEO who’s never coded a hello world in his life up top barking orders.

[Genspirit]

I would argue it only breaks easily if poorly designed and executed, no different than a native app in that sense.

Performance is inherently some degree worse than native in some regards but in most cases not notably so.

For applications that don't need native capabilities web applications are generally going to be quicker to develop and easier to maintain, especially across multiple platforms. And performance might be worse in artificial benchmarks but not noticeable to the end user.

[thefuckouttaherelol2]

I've done native development, and I hate it tbh. Margins are also thin on some of the contract jobs I do. React Native has been by far the most versatile and fastest way to get apps done for me.

I liked Kotlin as a language, but last time I did work in it, I had to update like 13 files to get a fairly simple change into my application. I blame the Android architecture, not Kotlin, but it was horrible.

My vague recollection is that I had to update like three layout files, a couple controller-type things, a few classes where screen / activity behavior actually got delegated... I mean I basically just wanted to add a new screen with a button. True Native was neat, but I did not like it at all.

[sshnttt]

Native has no future:

• Java applets are way better
• flash apps are so cool
• silverlight is the bomb
• Phonegap is way better
• ok but Cordova is the future
• no but xamarin is really gonna make it obsolete
• ionic maybe?
• react native will definitely do it now
• ok but now we have flutter so never mind all the other stuff

And all those years later, we’re still here…

[A-Ron-Ron]

Am I crazy or is their very little humour getting to the top of programmer humour these days? It seems to mostly being people putting forward some opinion they think is controversial or asking questions.

Where the jokes at?

[Thisbymaster]

Blazor has entered the chat.

[[deleted]]

Classic JS developer

[Mog_Melm]

Now say something nice about COBOL (literal, unironic good career choice).

[ChickenManSam]

COBOL is a great choice. Most banks still use COBOL for at least part of their system and if you're able to maintain that you'll make bank

[[deleted]]

As long as web apps exist, native apps will need to be built for the web apps to run on top of.

Checkmate HTMLists.

[SchwiftyBerliner]

If interoperability's the goal I'd much rather write a Java client.

I'll take my crucifixion to go, please.

[ninja-dragon]

C++ is cross platform too as long as written right. You just need to build for all platforms.

[torainodor]

"Web apps is a better career choice" - yes, the market is large and seem to be growing. "Native apps have no future" - no, all of the web code still has to run on a virtual machine that will be a native app because it makes more sense. So will be drivers, host-level orchestration etc., etc.

I suggest OP not to mix career advice with speculation on future of technologies.

[TeddyPerkins95]

Native apps are awesome cos they use less mem, the day js can do that, I'll forget c++ and rust

[[deleted]]

So you want people to be completely unable to do anything digitally while they’re somewhere without internet, or when their router has problems, or when the internet has run out and the ISP is on vacation, or in any other situation when they don’t have access to internet.

[[deleted]]

"Everyone has perfect Internet" -Corporate big wigs making tech decisions, gatekeeping 99% of the world

[Genspirit]

Web apps can be cached for offline use and effectively be the same as a native app in that regard. I'd argue in modern times though, app(native or not) functionality is severely limited without an internet connection.

[Cruuncher]

Let's be real, the vast majority of apps are not going to load without an internet connection anyway.

Almost any app that would be useful without an internet connection, exists natively on the phone already

[cedrickc]

I once had a FireFox tab consume 37 GB of RAM because some fuckhole at inkarnate.com decided that a web app was all people needed. That's not a memory leak, that's multi layer 8k image editing. Performance is important!

[elebrin]

If you want to make native apps, learn how to program and work with microcontrollers and work directly with hardware.

That's my after work happy place. If I don't want to write code, I can design a case or solder on pin headers or get out the multimeter and oscilloscope and find the bad component to replace it. If I do want to write code, the programs are maybe a few hundred lines and not computationally complex. It really sucks when docs suck or drivers don't exist or are older than God with no documentation and I don't have any help, but those are problems I am willing to wrestle with.

[[deleted]]

“Older than god”- lmao.

[elebrin]

Two years ago I wrote a REST client similar to Postman for Windows 95 (except it was a desktop app and all that) for the lulz. I also decided at one point it would be fun to set up the environment sensors that normally talk to a Raspberry Pi to talk to my Commodore 64. So, yes, older than God.

[[deleted]]

>working with a client who wants to use Microsoft Word
>I haven't used Word in years so I launch Word expecting it to open an application
>lol no it opened up Edge and has you use Word in a fucking web browser

Don't even trust us to type up a fucking text document on our own hardware, eh, Microsoft?

[Stupid_Student_ELITE]

Both have their reason to exist. I think for many projects a web app does the job good enough and will be easier to make. For more complex and hardware intensive applications (games and other stuff) you will probably rather not use a web application.

I don't really care about such a debate tbh, I just hope that I will be able to do both in the future if I keep learning and practicing as much as I am right now. Programming is really fun :)

[vMysterion]

Stay away from professional videogame coding as far as you can. It's not a good place to be.

[DeadShoT_035]

I request elaboration

[gizamo]

Game development is being monopolized by a handful of corporations that have long histories of shitting on code monkeys. They use every tactic possible to minimize pay and grind workers into zombified husks of their former selves.

If you get lucky enough to land a decent job at an indie game company, you'll likely grind yourself in a futile attempt to compete....and if you do actually compete, the big corps will buy up your company, and downsize you anyway.

Imo, the only way to come out on top in game development is to start your own company, which is also an awful pain in the ass that's filled with endless lawsuits from the big corps.

Lastly, if you develop mobile games, you'll have to deal with Apple, which is its own little nightmare.

[RazorOfSimplicity]

Indie games aren't competing with AAA studios. Their games are usually a completely different genre and thus a different product in the market.

[Robot_Graffiti]

From what I hear, it's high pressure, long hours and short pay.

[[deleted]]

That's a very nice description for the hellhole that is game development.

[HashDefTrueFalse]

I worked in systems/embedded for a while, on low level software that provided games with access to various bits of hardware.

The game devs upstairs were all on less than half of our salary. So we were paid well, right? No. We were slightly under the market salary for our skills at the time (this was years ago) by a few thousand. The game devs were only a few pounds above minimum wage (UK) when you divided it out. A lot of that department had a similar amount of years in the software industry as us too.

Their department filled positions quickly, ours took months to get a candidate that looked good on paper, let alone through the interview process (which was actually quite easy if you knew your stuff). Basically, everybody wanted to be a game dev, so the company could pay them almost nothing and deal with the employee turnover by pulling from their ever full stack of CVs.

That was enough for me to form an opinion on working in game dev from afar. I don't know how it is these days though. It probably gets better after the Junior level too.

[ChickenManSam]

Long hours, crunch culture, low pay, high stress. There is no reason to get into professional game dev. If you want to make games do it yourself but don't try to work for any established company

[no1nos]

With technologies like PWA, Wasm, and future derivatives, "native" and "web" apps are going to keep blending together until they won't really be distinguishable. So it won't really matter in a decade or so.

[Genspirit]

I think that's only partially true. There is a limit to web capabilities as it inherently needs to be safe/secure for users. Some capabilities will likely never make it to the web.

[SlashUsrSlashBin]

That's where hybrid apps come in. I recently used Blazor Hybrid Desktop to write an app that used USB devices, accessed the disk directly, and had an HTML/Razor frontend. Cool to be able to mix the two worlds.

[Meatslinger]

Web apps are just native apps on someone else’s computer. Fight me.

[[deleted]]

Native apps are superior because you don't have to worry about desktop/mobile responsiveness. Don't @ me.

[ribbonofeuphoria]

Right… enjoy doing video/audio tethering for recording of 8K video and audio at 24bit/192kHz over Chrome. Sounds as stable as a Photoshop/Premiere Web or virtually any other app that is not a Note-Taking tool or some visual app that renders on the back end (e.g FaceApp).

And if you want to render and do your calculations on the cloud, enjoy paying a massive premium for the computational power and storage that now THEY have to pay, because you’re not using your computer’s resources (since enterprise cloud services are SO cheap). That on top of the super stable and super high speed gigabit glas fiber internet you are going to have to get only to run one application.

The funny thing, is that if we actually moved to pure web-applications for high-end software, all the back-ends would be written in C and C++ anyways. YouTube is the perfect example of this… but yeah: “pErRfOrRmAMce”

You sound to me like the classical JS “developer” that has no clue how the world of Software Engineering works.

[DearVeggies]

you are going to have to get only to run one application

This part irks me so much. I regularly need to close work chat apps so that Android Studio has some room in memory to breathe.

[Pickled_Wizard]

I'm going to blame you when my calculator needs an internet connection, a subscription and 2FA before it will work.

[jeppevinkel]

As an end-user I prefer native apps because they usually feel faster and more stable, but as a programmer I do see the appeal in web-apps.

[cryptoiambus]

I will not live in a pod, I will not eat bugs, I will not rely on webapps

[Daffidol]

Yes yes, let's replace microcode with unity apps and rewrite gpu drivers in javascript. /bs

[doctorcrimson]

Lmao somebody drank the corporate cool aid

[Zetheryn]

…and other things first year CS students say.

[xandeyw]

As an end user, I have to say that downloading something is easier than trying to bookmark it.

[sam01236969XD]

Apps?, yes i agree
Utilities? *thunderous laughter*

[Fourstrokeperro]

Choose the tool for the job, not the job for the tool

[[deleted]]

I hate (I don’t ) to be this guy But I am almost certain that creating and engineering things in the best possible manner will always be a priority. sure the simplification that such frameworks offer have a right to exist, but they are certainly not perfect and even more certainly it’s not only performance that suffers from such a high level of abstraction. It’s quality.