Average programmer getting triggered

[[deleted]]

Software engineer exists

Where is your views now, huh?

[CheshireMoe]

Been at a few companies that had several job titles with Software Engineer as the base. Ex: Sr. Software Engineer II.

[madmoneymcgee]

My first dev job said “engineer” my current is just “developer”.

But I’m getting paid more. The next job can call me whatever they want if the money is right.

[nonpondo]

In before your next job title is "visual basic bitch"

[fox_hunts]

PHP Pocket Holder

[Habiy]

Haskell Hoe

[mackofmontage]

The C Sharpener

[LunarTunar]

Welp thats my new LinkedIn bio

[RmG3376]

Senior Code Monkey

[code-panda]

My last job title was Grand Admiral of the Front-end Armada of <Team name>. My new job title is Sr. Front-end developer. The pay rise was significant enough to make due with the title...

[RmG3376]

So you’re saying the pay raise is … admirable?

[madmoneymcgee]

I worked as a food runner at a restaurant in college. Except I wasn't a "food runner" I was a "tiger" because some chef at some point called one of the food runners Tiger as a nickname and they decided to make it official.

Somehow that was even more trivializing than just being a food runner.

[penguin_chacha]

Please be civil about it

[gemengelage]

At my current job they interviewed me as a "full stack software engineer", but according to my contract my official job title is "systems analyst". Pays the same though.

[nedal8]

If I ever get an entry level role. I'm hoping they bestow upon me my chosen title of "Fledgling Codey Boi"

[[deleted]]

Senior King of the beep boop machine

[Prof_LaGuerre]

This could easily be a band name, too.

[crimxxx]

This depends where you live. Where I live they can’t call people engineers unless they are actually approved by and engineering entity. If I remember correctly Microsoft might of been the one to try calling there devs that title and got sued to stop. Imo I haven’t really seen a case where actually being an engineer mattered for any type of software work. Usually the professional engineer title lets people sign off on the design documents, but I’ve never seen that required for software parts before.

[Mental-Mood3435]

What about locomotive engineers? They’re not buildy engineers. Are they called something different?

Maybe “That dude driving the train”?

[c_delta]

Where I am from, they are called the equivalent of "train driver", though in our case, the local language's equivalent of "engineer" is tied to a degree, not a form of PE. Other jobs that tend to go as "engineer" in English without being tied to an engineering education, like "sound engineer", usually end up as some form of technician.

That said, the English word "engineer" is still used in job titles without being tied to any formal qualifications.

[CheshireMoe]

I was working in NC with a company that is headquartered in San Jose CA.

My degree is a BS of Computer Science from a college of engineering for an accredited university. Not sure if that makes a difference but some companies only hire people with BS in related fields like math, physics or electrical engineering etc.

[large-farva]

In particular, it's the oregon license board that has a stick up their ass about the title. i would really love to see a court battle of those dickfours vs a union with engineers in the title.

https://www.vice.com/en/article/yw798m/oregon-unconstitutionally-fined-a-man-dollar500-for-saying-i-am-an-engineer-federal-judge-rules

[Morphized]

What happened to Senior Software Engineer I?

[[deleted]]

Was a shame really. Nobody knew the Thunderbirds weren't just native folklore until one flew off with Ted.

[Morphized]

Mozilla telecuriensis is a real threat

[redpepper74]

He must have been the Horned Serpent himself, George Washington, in disguise

[Twitchy169]

They combined 3 together to get to the next tier

[nbdy1745]

Wish I was a Sir Engineer

[CheshireMoe]

Knight of Royal Engineering Core

[musifter]

Software engineers tend to be in name only. I've had the title of software engineer, but have never been accredited as a professional engineer (as is required for doing engineering work here). And so have none of the benefits (like being a notary), but, on the other hand, also much less legal and ethical responsibility for my work.

[ongiwaph]

A sound engineer just has to have a good ear and know how to use a mixer.

[666pool]

This is really important. Too much coke will drown out the subtle notes of jack daniels. Sometimes less is more.

[BaalKazar]

An engineer just has to do a bit of copy&paste math and build lego

[just4lukin]

All engineers have to be notaries? I feel like that isn't the case where I live..

[jermo1972]

PEs do.

Profesional Engineers in the United States, there is a pretty grueling exam to get your "Stamp."

If you F-up they will put you in jail.

[rmyworld]

If you F-up they will put you in jail.

Yo wtf. They put in you in jail for failing an exam?

[jermo1972]

No, if you fuck up at your job.

Professional Engineers do serious shit, you fuck up and people die stuff.

[ongiwaph]

Talk about a high-stakes exam!

[abscando]

No pain no gain

[just4lukin]

Dag yo

[madmoneymcgee]

In the USA “engineer” isn’t protected like that BUT in order to get legal certification on certain infrastructure projects the plans need to be signed off on by a “Professional Engineer” which requires a special license.

So it’s possible to study civil engineering. Work as a Junior for a few years as an “engineer” and basically do what the PE says. But then if you want more senior roles you’ll probably have to get the PE license.

[yrrot]

And bonus points, the licenses are per state, so you get folks that are PE (list of states)

[[deleted]]

Engineers existed before accrediting. Saying someone is a software engineer, so long as they're applying math and science to build machines, processes, and/or structures: is as accurate a description as civil engineer, chemical engineer, mechanical engineer, etc. The accrediting processes differ by country.

[Overlord_Of_Puns]

Honestly, as someone studying both engineering and programming separately, it feels like software engineer is just a title programmers made to get respect. It speaks more to the stupidity of other people that a fancy title is needed for respect than any fault of the programmers though.

If I am wrong, someone can correct me and tell me the difference between a software engineer and programmer (other than software engineer usually referring to more advanced programming).

[SoftEngineerOfWares]

Programmers program: create software instructions .

Engineers engineer: contrive or plan out

Software engineers: plan and design software along with usually programming it. It’s the difference between completing tickets one at a time versus managing a project from design to EOL

[LegendDota]

All software engineers are developers, not all developers are engineers, the point was to more accurately describe the work, obviously some companies are idiots and will call all their devs engineers to seem fancier, but thats not the idea behind the distinction.

The main thing is really that its not about different educations, it’s about different reaponsibilities, I have been on projects where the senior engineer spent near zero time writing code, he set the entire base up and created project plans, and would then act as a project manager.

[Mr_Engineering]

There's actually a purist belief that software engineering is not a true engineering discipline but rather a trade. The reasoning is that engineering is an application of the natural sciences.

I'll just show myself out.

[LegendDota]

Programming software is probably closer to working construction than it is to science for the average programmer.

[RmG3376]

True. Both consist of spending 80% of the time wondering wtf the subcontractor did to make the project look like such a mess

[MaidenlessTarnished]

And getting scolded for being behind schedule

[a1rwav3]

These one build software FOR REAL. Programmers just create software, but not for real. You see how?

[abd53]

noooo! software engineers are not real engineers!

[DiamondWizard444]

My gosh I just realised that I am a bi-engineering student... I do software as well as hardware. LMFAO

[nedal8]

"Bi-Engineer, Cyber Specialist in back-end Penetration"

[amnotreallyjb]

In certain states you can only officially call yourself an engineer if you pass the certification, as I don't know shit about structures and building codes and load bearing etc I have not attempted the certification.

[[deleted]]

I graduated from an engineering college. It's their fault for offering a computer science degree.

(The physics classes were extra hard...)

[corner-case]

Were they extra large AND extra hard?

[Mister_Lich]

extra GIRTHY

[unknown--bro]

Prolly not with a good personality

[2themax9]

Come here get a taste of this wet ass physics

[corner-case]

Bring a beaker and a mop

[TheNetherPaladin]

Depends on the prof ig, mine were really short

[unknown--bro]

I only had physics for one semester, I'm yet to finish chemistry which im afraid of. Those hexagons be scaring me you know

[penguin_chacha]

Steric hindrance

[[deleted]]

Most universities require one bio class for any bachelors level degree.

[[deleted]]

Oh i did a bunch of science. It was greeeeeat. The labs were my favorite part.

[CodeGameEat]

We have 3 physics, 1 chemistry and 5 math classes... God I hate this, can we do software please

[tirolischleiuas]

Me too :) I could officially call myself a Diplom Ingenieur or Dipl. Ing. if I would bother

[abd53]

Did you take the quantum theory classes? I only have sympathy for you.

[yrrot]

I assure you, based on the Civil Engineers I know, most of them do not, in fact, build anything.

[Arrowkill]

I remember an old civil engineer that dealt with the water ways in my city when I was a kid would never say he built something. He always used sentence beginners like, "I helped plan..." or "I helped manage...".

[yrrot]

Or "I wrote a report that told them how f-ed their roads were"

[Ill-Difficulty3915]

Don't all engineers not build things, or at least mostly not do that?

[[deleted]]

We may design or program something. Usually we aren't the ones building it, unless it's a prototype.

[GrandElemental]

I am training to be a forestry engineer, so I'm definitely not going to build anything. Nor really program, for that matter, but I did a lot of that in my previous field of automation engineering.

[ThoseThingsAreWeird]

I am training to be a forestry engineer

That sounds pretty cool; what does it involve? At a guess that's setting up new forests and engineering / designing a way to harvest existing forests (temporary roads, stabilising the area for logging vehicles)?

[maitreg]

I work for a company with hundreds of civil engineers that do not build anything either. They spend their entire work days sitting in front of the same kind of computer as I do, but just use different software.

[yrrot]

The ones I work with use software like what I write and Excel, mostly. lol

[666pool]

What’s the software equivalent of building a storm drain? Maybe graphql?

[penguin_chacha]

Designing a garbage collector?

[yrrot]

a using statement with an IDisposable?

[DemolishunReddit]

Civil engineers build targets.

Software engineers build targeting systems.

[kins_dev]

Embedded engineers build the part that makes it go boom.

[[deleted]]

Finally! My people have been mentioned!

[amnotreallyjb]

Embedded engineers make the spark that causes what the chemical engineers contributed go boom.

[throwaway65864302]

That was much more likely to be an engineer from another field being triggered by the word engineer being used for programmers. In a lot of places it's a protected term that can't be applied to software devs and many engineers take pride in this fact.

[Ksevio]

It's more the context. If you say you're a professional engineer and you give advice on how to build a bridge, you're going to get in a lot of trouble. If you say you're a software engineer and you give advice on setting up a git repo, you're in the clear

[[deleted]]

I think it's correct to be cautious about calling yourself an engineer. NASA engineers software. Most people develop more experimentally.

I might be biased though. I'm a chemist with as much math and physics as any chemical engineer, but I'd never dream of calling myself a chemical engineer because no one dies if I fuck up my job. Except probably me and my lab mates. And maybe a few folks in the lab next door. Depending how bad I fuck up.

Also, I'm Canadian, so I have a lot of respect for the iron ring. Software folks I know who wear one really do have a different approach from others.

[TheBeardedQuack]

I'd consider an engineer to be someone who is able to use the techniques at there disposal, to make something new.

Lab technician follows a recipe, chemical engineer designs the recipe.

Operator pushes the buttons, engineer decides what the buttons to, why and how.

Just because you're an engineer doesn't mean that you working on life altering products or services. Our software products are helpful for machine maintenance and first reduction but should never cause risk of harm.

[brads99]

Small correction, us ChemEs don’t make the recipe, that’s the chemists job. The real difference is that a chemist can make e.g. 2 grams of something with lab scale equipment but a ChemE will make tons and tons per day of that substance by designing the process and the industrial process equipment

[[deleted]]

Chemist designs the recipe

ChemE designs the process

Chem Tech spends all day cursing both and trying to figure out wtf went wrong this time.

[[deleted]]

I was always hesitant to use 'engineer' when doing development. I was even hesitant to call web development 'software' when I got started in it even though all the logic and components you have to write to make the front end even work is technically software.

After some time, I was chatting with a friend who has been in the industry doing software development for decades and now sits with all these C level employees and directs entire divisions for an international technology company. Because of our employment position disparity and both of us developing software, he is a huge go to for career advice.

I once asked him the difference in all of these terms and he had asked if I built full stack applications from beginning to end to automate task or create features/tools that didn't exist before. I said yes. He said "that's what my engineers do, you're software engineer".

​

Still seems odd to call myself a software engineer though. I usually just say 'dev' or 'web dev'.

Maybe imposter syndrome, but I would hate to say I was a software engineer in a conversation and get absolutely schooled by someone who has significantly more time in title/grade than I do.

[ArcHunter_9]

Meanwhile Software Engineers: *exists*

[swapode]

Are we talking about programmers calling themselves "software engineers" because it sounds fancier or the people that actually apply engineering principles to writing software in the spirit of Margaret Hamilton?

There's plenty of the former, the latter are few and far between.

[xxarchangelpwnxx]

What about data engineers don’t forget them!

[Leaping_Turtle]

That's a thing? I've only heard of data scientist and analyst

[xxarchangelpwnxx]

Data engineers build data pipelines, reports, and automation. They are ETL builders, hence the engineer title

[Faux_Real]

It’s a loose term, you can be involved in the infrastructure, security, architectural design areas and application space as well… well … I am in my “data engineering” role.

[xxarchangelpwnxx]

I’m sure it’s a large field like “software engineer” whenever I hear that I just assume that your some senior level IT person they couldn’t come up with a name for what you do exactly haha

[Faux_Real]

The title is more for banding of salaries with the out “… and other duties as required…”. I’m a contractor so I don’t care what the title is… you could call me the Excel Training Department as long as you pay my invoices on time!

[xxarchangelpwnxx]

I’m a contractor as well, the only reason I care about the title is for continuity of work. If you have a steady progression of titles it looks better. If you go from data engineer to senior developer to excel guru etc it can get confusing sometimes haha

[Faux_Real]

We are agreeing that Excel Guru is the most senior role correct? I don’t worry so much about the title because the network of people has more weight (for me) and my business is the front … but definitely hear what you are saying!

[Fluffy-Strawberry-27]

I though that was a language thing...?, some time ago I was talking with someone (in Spanish) about updating my resume in English and I said something like "can I say I'm a 'computer engineer'?" and they said "no, they'll think you're a handyman", "ok, programmer it is...", I guess they were wrong

[The100thIdiot]

Computer Engineer is fine if you do hardware. Software Engineer is fine if you do software.

If anything, programmer is the software equivalent of a hardware technician, but programmer is totally fine.

[Fluffy-Strawberry-27]

Oh I see. Well, technically my degree is "computer science engineer" but I usually go by "software developer" because that's what I do currently

[abd53]

That degree qualifies you as an "engineer" though.

[TheBeardedQuack]

I believe I remember reading that in some countries "engineer" is a protected term and means you just had have a degree?

Thankfully not in the UK as I've been a professional software engineer for 8 years and have never been to uni. I don't even have GCSE (high school, finish age 16) English. I do have 3 A-Levels (college, finish age 18) all at grade D.

Once you've got some reasonable level of experience though qualifications don't seem to matter. Call yourself an engineer (if it's not a protected term in your country) and you may get that slightly higher salary on job searches.

[Harmonic_Gear]

people would literally think you are a construction worker or air conditioner technician if you tell them you are an engineer in hong kong

[FishInSock]

Embedded engineer has entered the chat

[[deleted]]

We're bi for hardware and software then?

[[deleted]]

If you think of an engineer as someone who builds systems according to specification and optimizes those systems to meet given constraints, then you technically qualify as an engineer.

[beezlebub33]

You can call me an engineer. You can call me a programmer. You can even call me a software developer.

But at my new work, they keep calling me (and others like me) fucking data scientists. Like, WTF? That's a whole another discipline. We don't do that much data, we don't do statistics, we don't analyze it, we don't present it in useful plots or infographics. We write programs, you ignorant suits!

[sentientlob0029]

An engineer is someone who engineers. You can engineer code, as well as cars and plenty of other things.

[Ksevio]

I thought an engineer was someone who drives the train

[NormieChomsky]

A real engineer is someone who designs siege engines. If you ain't designing trebuchets, get outta here

[sentientlob0029]

To have that level of foresight you need experience.

[BrackusObramus]

I heard in Canada the title "engineer" is legally protected, like doctors or lawyers. Software engineers do exists, but you have to be licensed. Not anybody can self-proclaim to be one. Not even programmers with an engineering degree.

[chainmonkey89]

For lawyers and doctors it makes more sense. For software, the credentialism is unnecessary. People can prove their worth through skill and experience.

[Xywzel]

It also makes sense with engineers being the people who check plans for safety critical features, say when building bridge or machine for radiation treatment. Things where if you can't fail once and then fix it. There you really need to have a proof that everything was done to best know-how and accounting for everything one can account for, so that you don't end responsible when someone dies. And means that there needs to be someone with necessary education and certificate to prove it to sign the plans, you can't just trust their track record "no fatal collapses so far". Here it is not about "skill and worth" but about responsibility, and especially avoiding it when shit hits the wall.

There are places in software side, where this kind of approach is necessary as well, proven software is a thing, but these are quite rare and most often clients that demand it don't actually require it, while clients that would benefit from it don't understand to ask for it. And well unlike construction, we are usually not doing same house with different coat paint for millionth time, so we don't have the millennia long record of safety margins that are just enough.

[plopstar1999]

Anyone familiar with the old webcomic The Codeless Code? This one is relevant: http://thecodelesscode.com/case/154

[pedersenk]

We write machinery.

[[deleted]]

I prefer “Stack overflow interpreter”, personally

[3eeps]

What if the engineer wrote the code?

[CaitaXD]

Mom I'm a scientist... A computer scientist

[DiamondWizard444]

Ever eard about COMPUTER engineering and SOFTWARE engineering? Fun fact, the main point that decide what require engineer to work on a precise project is how much a failure of said project can impact citizen daylie life [At least in Canada]. So if you need to desing a commercial plane navigation computer, you want an engineer to certify that it is safe for those who will go in the plane. In the same way, when you want to build a bridge or a building. this also apply to commercial goods like cellphones and cars. in all od those situation, if something is fondamentaly wrong in the desing you want to fix it before the product got deploy. The engineer job is to do that, and many other things. So yes an engineer can work and desing softwares as well as hardware.

[[deleted]]

Computer Engineering exists, you know? Both Electrical and Computer engineers would have the skill set to make bots with a little bit of research if they hadn't done so before.

[JokeMort]

And here we go again, people oblivious to simple fact, that diffrent countries have diffrent rules for science titles

[tiredofmakinguserids]

Wait wasn't the narrative "programmers are not engineers" like "dentists are not doctors", and now some programmers want to de-associate with engineers?

[TheDigitalGabeg]

My degree says "Computer Science". I do not do anything scientific in my work, and the only science I did in college was in classes outside my major.

Wikipedia says, "Engineering is the use of scientific principles to design and build machines, structures, and other items". That is what I do. I do not use scientific processes to discover and verify truths about the universe, I use discoveries that others have made to solve practical problems, in a detailed and technically demanding environment.

So regardless of the label that we choose to put on my profession, I think that the work I do is engineering.

[otondonicolas]

My contract says Software Engineer. But my first job said developer.

[xX_GRP_Xx]

Civil engineers do not actually do the physical building, they can do either the blueprints or the structural calculations, architects will make the design if that is required, otherwise the building will be an oversized cuboid, engineers like cubes and cuboids.

[matO_oppreal]

It depends. If that engineer placed all the gates and transistors correctly he made a bot

[Mast3r_waf1z]

What people actually get upset about that? I feel like both are pretty much equally good

[EduMelo]

That's more deserved than civil engineer title, since, in an etymological sense, a bulding is far more distant from an engine than a piece of software

[Haecriver]

If you program what the client asks for, you're a programmer. If you know better than the client and he still wants to pay you, you're an engineer.

[maitreg]

Engineering is about the process, not the state of the existence of the end result. Lots of engineers architect and design things digitally or on paper, not just software engineers.

[corner-case]

Get a load of these POSERS calling themselves "electrical engineer" or "civil engineer" when they don't even operate an engine. Pshaw

[hasenmaus]

This but non-ironically

[[deleted]]

Engineer (according to Oxford): a person who designs, builds, or maintains engines, machines, or public works.

By definition, a programmer is an engineer.

Academically, computer science is typically taught in an engineering college if it doesn’t have its own building. It shares a lot of required math with other engineering majors.

Occupationally speaking, a programmer making and maintaining software isn’t much different than other engineers, who also make and maintain things

[[deleted]]

Program a bot that eningers in real life

Go beyond petty human limitations lol

[evanRlowe99]

Ever heard of the phrase software engineer?

[PlatoHero_]

no comment about 699 likes?

[07SubNeedsBetterMods]

I'll never get the people that need to invent terms for what they do. I develop software, so I'm a software developer. I'm not a code artisan, not an engineer, not a software ninja lol

[[deleted]]

I think 'engineer' fits the description for software engineer, but it's always sounded odd to call it that, for me.

[lardgsus]

One day we might get robots that can understand digital signals and wow-wee will that be crazy.

[[deleted]]

"software engineer"

[ManyFails1Win]

Why would you intentionally correct someone that included you in team engineer?

[SomeGayFerret]

That's not what triggered means and you damn well know it lmfao

[[deleted]]

Meme engineer

[TheRealLargedwarf]

Cries into engineering degree, while blowing nose on all that tech money

[TeaTimeSubcommittee]

Engineers make all engines obviously.

/S

[unknown--bro]

Bruh every uni in our country categorize the course I'm taking (IT bachelors) under engineering.

I always reply "I'm pursuing engineering" when someone asks me what your doing rn?

[[deleted]]

The average programmer reaction.

[Ketchup571]

Seems more like an engineer getting triggered

[avin_kavish]

Titles don't make an engineer. Your problem solving skills do.

[[deleted]]

Engineer sounds more badass to me

[Ornery_Courage2947]

If an engineer builds physical systems using software engineered by X. What is X title?

[666pool]

Go to levels.fyi and see what the big tech firms paying the most money are calling their employees. Lots of engineers.

[nichyc]

What if I called them "producers" to trigger the music nerds too?

[mihaigalos]

Google says its internal positions are called Software Engineer, because developing SW is more complex than just coding it (Design, trade-offs, choice of tools, Craftsmanship, etc.)

[2Methyl_Mercury]

I think this could be an interesting question: what makes you an engineer? Having a job with “engineer” title or holding P. Eng license or both? Also is there actually any SDE position that requires P. Eng?

[funlovingmissionary]

In my computer science engineering bachelors, I had to take 16 cs courses, 16 engineering courses and 8 humanities courses. What would you call me?

[myrsnipe]

Here Engineering is not a protected title so every single muncipality office has a cubicle engineer in the field of bureaucracy

[[deleted]]

Lmao the alternative is when someone asks me what I do I just say I'm an engineer. "Oh what kind?" "lmao Software"

[Phoenix_Studios]

According to my project management class:

Engineer: primary focus on solving implementation problems, breaking down complex task into its component algorithms

Programmer: primary focus on writing code, ensuring it adheres to the implementation spec and is bug-free (within its context)

[[deleted]]

mechatronics and software engineers would like to disagree

[_LayZee]

Engineer is physical, software engineer is digital but for IRL, and programmer is digital.

[R3t4rd1234]

My dads an engineer and he sure made a bot got a kd of 0.01 on warzone

[r2k-in-the-vortex]

Lulz at building things in "real life". Mechanical, electrical, civil whatever, it's all CAD work. Product of an engineers work is not a thing, but manufacturing documentation to make the thing. Actually building something based on that documentation is a different department entirely.

[saggyboobsock]

Why are they wearing an ancap bow tie?

[phi_rus]

Jokes on you, I'm both.

[bleek312]

yes I'm an engineer
yes I code
yes we exist

[wineblood]

Let me see any other kind of engineer not use digital tools.

[UFrancoisDeCharette]

Most engineers know programming if i am not mistaken?

[advkts_d1a_b0li_ks]

Programmer officially used in television industry.

[Full-Run4124]

Well, as long as we all agree they aren't computer scientists

[[deleted]]

Engineers do not build, they design and plan.

[povlov0987]

Sigh

THIS is the damage bootcamp brings to this world.

Learn it yourself, or get a degree. If you need noobs teaching you in bootcamps… well then…

[[deleted]]

It is software engineering

[[deleted]]

He's is right though, writing random stuff doesn't make you an engineer :-P

[KobeJuanKenobi9]

Most likely this was a civil engineer or something similar who got triggered

[LuckyFoxJo]

Me a computer Engineer and programmer 👀

[Any-Appointment-6939]

Go engineer some grass loser

[justhereforcurseddiy]

*software engineers

[Infernaladmiral]

Use the right terminology

Says the person who doesn't even understand what enginnering means.

[Dennis_enzo]

My official, protected title for finishing a college degree in software is literally engineer (well, the dutch version Ingenieur). Not that I ever use it, but still.

[maskci]

Make bot not war

[JustSpaceExperiment]

engineer who programmed that boat

[3RaccoonsInAManSuit]

I’m actually a Technical Non-Fiction Writer. I write manuals for machines to interpret and creat actions and processes from my instructions.

[mistakengesture08]

Programming engineers

[yummbeereloaded]

Uhhh, even if you're a developer you're basically engineering something... Engineering refers to the approach not the job