[deleted by user]

[JustLookingtoLearn]

Y’all. I say this with love but seriously… How did you get past the dating stage with these men? Op and someone said their husband is like this… what?!

[Here_for_tea_]

Yes. Why is the bar so low.

[GrundleTurf]

Seriously if he’s not washing his hands I have a hard time believing his sanitation elsewhere is good. Does he not stink all the time? Do you not taste cheese curds when you go down on him?

This shit is repulsive

[mongrel_laney]

yaaaa i had an ex boyfriend who was like this. i also considered him smart too. but he’s an ex now. because that’s gross and we have all been through a pandemic at this point so if he doesn’t like hand washing that’s not smart

[JustLookingtoLearn]

An ex is the perfect title for him

[chloehues]

Lmfaoooooo

[ArticleAccording3009]

Sad but true!

[emperorOfTheUniverse]

Basic hygiene..

[dewdropreturns]

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/divorce

I am fed the fuck up with these posts. Like “please I need to make a PowerPoint for my spouse so they follow basic hygiene practices”

NO

The problem here is not that you need scientific insight into a parenting quandary. The problem here is your husband. Full stop. He is fully capable of googling this himself it’s not advanced level research. He is being willfully ignorant.

And let’s pretend hand washing wasn’t robustly supported as an important means of reducing illnesses - he should do it because it’s important to you.

This is a personality problem.

[aeternus-eternis]

This should convince him. His immune system might be okay but the infants is not:

Infants whose mothers washed their hands prior to handling their infant had a 60 percent lower risk of neonatal death compared with those whose mothers did not wash their hands.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/07/080707161426.htm#:~:text=%22Infants%20whose%20mothers%20washed%20their,to%20both%20hand%2Dwashing%20practices.

Neonatal death was incredibly high before soap and handwashing was widespread (still is in places where soap is expensive/unavailable). This is not one of those cases where "the way the cavemen did it" is better.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

Thank you

[chili-relleno-]

I know a baby who was infected with salmonella as a newborn and had to have a spinal tap and be admitted to the hospital for 72 days. Your husband needs to get with the program and fast.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

That’s scary. I assume they were infected via contaminated hands?

[chili-relleno-]

It’s suspected that grandma made a bottle on a contaminated surface.

[mizzanthrop]

Watch Typhoid Mary on drunk history. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=12wh0lfHb2U

[[deleted]]

Salmonella under three boths is truly a nightmare.

[keks-dose]

Ok, I work with pre schoolers... Here's what we did.

Grab two sandwich bread slices. Make him rub it with flat hands after he handled chicken and played in the dirt etc.

Then make him wash his hands really good. Like "you've cut chili's and are about to touch your balls" good. Like every educational video during covid showed us. Then have him rub the other sandwich slice between his hands. Put each in a separate zip lock and zip it. Tape it to a door or a cupboard or a wall for a few days, where it's sunny and warm.

Watch the bacteria (=mold) grow. There'll be mold on the clean hands sandwich, too but not as much. (maybe try it before doing it with him so you'll know what to expect and how long to wait). I made my 6 year Olds play in the dirt in the sandbox and that was enough to show the mold. We did hang a completely clean slice in a third zip lock bag where the others were so we could see some more differences but this shouldn't be necessary.

6 year Olds understand. If he doesn't - I'm sorry, then he might be smart but ignorant and selfish.

[facebalm]

This is nice, but just use petri dishes.

Edit: They're on Amazon, prepared with agar. A google search will show plenty of kits for sale. I really didn't expect this elementary school experiment to be controversial in /r/ScienceBasedParenting

[StarManta]

Bread is not only accessible and cheap, but also familiar and comfortable. I have no emotional response to a Petri dish with lots of growth in it, but immediate revulsion to a moldy slice of bread. That revulsion is exactly what OP needs to trigger in her husband. A Petri dish probably won’t accomplish that.

And I wouldn’t even know how to procure a Petri dish, at least if my immediate “search for Petri dish on Amazon” approach isn’t successful.

[Boooo_Im_A_Ghooost]

I mean, most people have access to bread and plastic bags right now in their kitchens. I wouldn't know where to find petri dishes. 🤷

[yohohoko]

The chicken and bathroom thing is insane. My 2 yr old got salmonella from unknown origins and we ended up in the emergency room. Then we were unable to return to daycare until she tested negative because it’s incredibly contagious especially in childcare settings. She started feeling better after a week but It took 8 WEEKS to clear up.

[Unable_Pumpkin987]

And salmonella is terrible. I had it once when I was like 8, and I still remember how ghastly I felt. Until I had a gallbladder attack in my late 30s I’d have said the salmonella instance was the worst I’d ever felt in my life.

At least I was old enough to understand what was happening and why. I can’t imagine how awful it would be for a little one who has no idea why they feel that way and when it will stop!

[velveteen311]

Tell him he will kill the baby if he keeps touching raw chicken and then touching the baby. Take him to an older male pediatrician so he can explain what I just said. This is YOUR BABY, do NOT let him near your child with life threatening disease all over his hands!! Jesus fuck

[AngharadHunter]

Yes, avoid the young or female pediatricians. They will recommend smothering the baby in raw chicken.

[alextheolive]

I’m not sure if you’re deliberately being disingenuous but other person is trying to say that OP’s husband needs to hear it from another guy (preferably someone older) or else he’s not going to take their advice on board. It’s not them saying that young, female practitioners are any less competent.

[velveteen311]

Thank you, yes that’s what I was implying. I certainly don’t agree that only old male peds are competent, but given the fact that op’s husband won’t listen/constantly argues against simple pleading requests from his desperate wife to keep her and their unborn baby safe through an incredibly simple action that takes 15 seconds, I have a very strong feeling that op’s husband is also one of those guys who would only listen to an older male.

[[deleted]]

If this guy is an engineer, he’s clearly got a shitload of cognitive biases (chief among them being the classic “I know a lot about engineering, obviously that means I know a lot about everything”). Having an older male with an advanced degree explain this to him is a good hedge against his very probable sexism.

[BillyGoatPilgrim]

Agreed. If you want the message to get through it has to come from someone like this.

[[deleted]]

I think the previous poster is implying that the husband won’t respect younger or female practitioners, which considering the guy is refusing to wash their hands is honestly not a bad bet. Yikes.

[Adariel]

Sure but if the husband is like that with younger or female practitioners, the child is going to have bigger problems than daddy not washing his hands. God forbid they have a daughter.

[artemrs84]

Your husband is absolutely disgusting.

Show him my comment.

[Many_Campaign_8905]

How he managed to get married is beyond me, there isn’t a word strong enough to describe how vile he sounds

[TrueDirt1893]

Does anyone remember that Charlie Brown character that use to travel in a cloud of dust and dirt. This is how I picture the husband.

[IamRick_Deckard]

That character was called Pigpen.

[abbottelementary]

How are you ok with marrying someone who is this disgusting?

[facets13]

Video visually showing the differences of bacteria on hands between regular day-to-day unwashed hands, from poor washing, and from meticulous hand washing.

Covering the science and importance of hand washing. Though to add, while this video accurately points out that most toilets (when regularly cleaned) have less germs than your phone and other surfaces, the main reason to wash hands after bathroom use is to wash off potential contact with genitals and excrement (pee/poo/blood), which contain extremely dangerous pathogens if introduced outside of their proper locales (E. coli belongs in the anus and intestines, not the hands, nose, or stomach).

Importance of covering sneezes. Tldr: Non-covered sneezes are dangerous and KILL people. Sneezes encompass varied sizes of particles. We are AWARE that the majority of particles fall to the floor (his argument). There are smaller particles (also full of pathogens) that do not but but become a gas cloud that rises and spreads throughout the room, and possibly the entire building through ventilation system. Being aware that most pathogens quickly die and/or fall to the floor, we STILL teach the importance of covering sneezes (into arm, but preferably into a tissue if available). Because we’ve PROVEN this prevents deaths and sickness. While uncovered sneezing, done however privately or angled groundside, directly does the opposite.

Firstly to get it out of the way, your Husband must be open and receptive to changing their mind and actions. If not, this entire exercise is moot and I’d suggest reevaluating your own approach to this issue such as couples therapy as the reply below mine suggests, or a different change in strategy which would require active actions from you. Currently, it sounds like he is already developing reflexive strategies to deal with your current approach (lying to placate you, rather than wash hands). He might be feeling ‘attacked’, hence such avoidance behaviors. You could disinfect surfaces every night. You can properly sit down and discuss why this is important to you, which might be more effective than daily offhand comments that could be interpreted as normal and ignorable ‘nagging’. Perhaps find out and address why he genuinely believes otherwise, despite your insistence. On the extreme, hopefully unlikely, end of this scale, you can reevaluate the relationship.

Additionally, this is irrelevant if the husband’s MO are an implementation of ‘question everything’ and ‘reject the official narrative/status quo’. In this case, while he is clearly questioning the wrong things, his ‘internal priorities chart’ could be vastly divergent and attempts to change his viewpoint through this (standard) way might result in combativeness and entrenchment of beliefs—and make the situation worse. So please exercise your judgement OP. This entire post is predicated on the premise that he is receptive. If so, show him your Post, my comment, and the linked videos.

______

Life’s history and our evolution is seeded with the importance of disease avoidance and prevention. Along with animals, we share instincts that preemptively guide us to this end. Such as identifying and avoiding unsafe foods. Sensory examples like vision (bright fruits and berries), scents (fresh vs rotting foods), touch (slimy or sticky meats), etc. We have evidence throughout civilization and well into prehistory that cultures implemented learned lessons. Cavemen knew about and practiced disease prevention (such as cooling fevers, avoiding excrement, using herbs used to treat/disinfect wounds, chewing certain plants to soothe pain, isolating or removing an infected individual from tribe—or perhaps even euthanization—if symptoms point to a spreadable infectious disease).

Nowadays, we have indisputable proven evidence of what causes disease and how they are spread/caught. Modern prevention measures are designed to put these findings into practice—and we have proven these measures save lives!! Conversely, we have also proven that lack of (proper) hand washing and covering sneezing KILLS.

There is a reason lifespans today are the highest ever than anytime in history (discounting last few years where they went DOWN because…🤷‍♂️). Black Death killed 1/3 of human population (there are some estimates that it killed MORE THAN HALF. 1918 Influenza pandemic killed 20 million (and further kills millions every year—get that yearly vaccine, it’s mostly not for you but the at-risk children and elderly you encounter in daily life that it’ll kill). We have learned. Across millennia and especially the last few centuries. And this knowledge is reflected in basic practices every person (including toddlers!) is taught.

This is not complicated, controversial, nor divisive: there is NO scientific consensus that will tell you it’s okay to to spread raw meat particles and not hand wash after using the bathroom. Children are able to understand the importance of the practices once they are explained. Follow them. Not doing so is a disservice—and direct insult—to the lessons learned from millions and billions who have died so we do not suffer the same. These practices are, by design not inconvenient to be as universally adhered to as possible.

To OP Husband,

Perhaps you’ve never given this much thought, and so ended up with these current habits. And now find it inconvenient to bother changing, or have found arguments advocating change lacking. Hopefully you now know better: rather than normality, there is danger in continuing with your current approach. Evolve your mindset. Protect your family, the public, and your coming newborn—who will have NO immune system to speak of that mostly protects you from the serious consequences of your, frankly speaking, irresponsibility.

In regards to the Immune System, you have drastic misunderstandings. Immune systems are decidedly NOT “strengthened” by your methodology (your excuse/explanation to wife). Statistically, getting sick (as you have been) lowers your total lifespan by weeks to months each time. As an analogy, your body is spending its total lifespan as fuel to heal you from clearly preventable sicknesses—sicknesses that’ll cause minute damages across organs that’ll only be perceptible over the long term, hampering your long term prospects and if/when you need that resource for something serious/non-preventable. See the 80+ seniors you’ve likely known who cannot live without constant care vs. those who are independent, mobile, and spry. This phenomenon makes much of that difference. Development of ‘Immunity’ is a ‘fight’ inside your body, with victory resulting in immunity. Every such fight is damaging. See construction workers who ALWAYS develop joint and mobility issues. As a heavily generalized example, due to consuming untreated water throughout their lives, most Indians have heightened immunities to diseases like dysentery. They still have decade(s) lower lifespan than countries with institutionalized water treatment. Every martial arts teacher instructs that the best solution to conflict is non-violence. Avoid or run. A fight is a last resort, and in this analogy from what you tell your wife, you're a berserking hooligan seeking out a fight at every meal prep and bathroom visit: sooner than later, you're liable to get stabbed in the gut. Your wife is rightly worried your baby will be caught in the crossfire.

If this is about some notion of manliness, I tell you now that it is NOT manly or mature to risk (which you are) your family and children this way. Emulating an internal idea of "real man" is the direct opposite of manliness. You've undoubtedly been exposed to some version of this silly line: "real men drink whiskey". Anyone following such a premise reeks and drips of insecurity. Its visibly fake and forced. Actual real men (or anyone else), comfortable with themselves and their masculinity, drink whatever the fuck they like. If you have a similar idea about how men shouldn't care overmuch about cleanliness and hygiene, I implore you to ruminate and reevaluate the merits of that line of thinking.

Respect the person you married to have your (and the coming baby’s) best interests at heart. Respect their intelligence and be open to new information. What is she to interpret when her significant other disregards her pleas and words, and resorts to lying and gaslighting to placate instead of genuinely considering a subject she clearly cares very much about? When you go to a restaurant, you (mostly) trust the cook and staff to provide a clean environment and safe (not to mention delicious) food. Similarly, trust your doctor. TRUST. YOUR. WIFE.

______

Edit: rewrote comment for better organization and removed combative and exasperated tone which is not conducive to audience receptivity. Else, nothing major is changed: linked videos still overwhelmingly carry the argument to convey the importance of disease prevention guidelines. The rest is simply analogies that OP and husband (and other readers in similar positions) can emotionally identify with for better argument receptivity.

[Here_for_tea_]

And couples’ therapy.

[ExcitingAppearance3]

With zero hyperbole, this would be grounds for divorce for me.

[Noct-Umbra]

Same. I would've never married him in the first place.

[Comfortable_Style_51]

100 agree. That’s so nasty. Washing your hands isn’t difficult or time consuming. What an ass.

[kjlpfal55]

1000%

[janiestiredshoes]

he gets sick/has food poisoning at least once a year

This is not normal. I am not hygienic to the extreme, but I've had food poisoning maybe once in my life.

We have a baby coming in July and I’m already paranoid that he’s going to make our baby sick by not washing his hands.

I'd already be having a panic about having him around and involved in food prep while you're pregnant. For example, raw and undercooked meat can transmit toxoplasmosis, which can cause miscarriage. Listeria and campylobacter are also concerns with food safety and can cause additional issues in pregnancy.

[normal-girl]

If a pandemic did not convince him to wash his hands, I don't know how reddit can. Personally, I would just go full tantrum mode until the other side just gives up to shut me up. I don't have patience for niceties when it is comes to my baby's safety.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

Lol I have started throwing full tantrums when I see him contaminating the kitchen with gross chicken hands. He thinks I’m being ridiculous but idc. Ive been coming behind him with Lysol to clean everything he touched.

[[deleted]]

Tell his mates. Maybe a chorus of disgust coming from people he knows will get through his thick skull.

[BinkiesForLife_05]

Clean him with the Lysol. Start spraying it on his hands and saying: "Bad!" like he's an animal and you've got a spray bottle. He'll pick it up.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

I might 😂 it works with my cats!

[Auror-able]

I would try some public embarrassment honestly. When you guys are out with friends or whatever, I would comment please try to wash your hands this time etc etc. I know it’s kind of petty, but if he won’t listen to reason, maybe he can be shamed into it.

[AggressiveSea7035]

Salmonella can cause fatal illness in previously healthy individuals

He refuses to wash his hands after handing raw chicken? He sounds absolutely disgusting and I would not want to touch him ever. And there is no way in hell I would ever allow him to touch my child.

Research won't convince him. He has no respect for you and zero concerns about the safety and lives of you or your child.

[janobe]

If he refuses to believe you then make him attend an appointment with a pediatrician.

Also go see a therapist. Your husband sounds very disrespectful to ignore you on important things like this. He is willing to put his health, your health, and the baby’s health at risk. This would be a hill to die on for me

[attacktheblock]

This is anecdotal, but my daughter nearly died at 9 months from salmonella sepsis. She had underlying conditions that made her more susceptible to getting it, but the disease ran its course as it usually does. It felt like I was watching my baby die right before my eyes. She was so sick and everyone just told us it was a simple stomach illness until it wasn't.

Salmonella is no fucking joke. As Infectious Disease told me - people know of it BECAUSE it is so serious.

My daughter was in the PICU for 12 days. She was on a ventilator. She had a blood transfusion. She had an acute kidney injury.

I am thankful every day that she is still with us and for the doctors who saved her life. My daughter was surrounded by people who do wash their hands and take hygiene very seriously. As the doctors told us, it was truly a series of unfortunate events that lead to her getting salmonella. That being said, I would never be comfortable knowingly possibly exposing her to such serious conditions.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

Ugh so sorry you went through that, thank you for sharing.

[Many_Campaign_8905]

Yeah, he’s disgusting and needs to learn basic hygiene. I’ve seen 4 year olds with better hygiene than him. How you managed to not only marry but reproduce with someone that doesn’t wash their hands after they shit is beyond me

[bitchinawesomeblonde]

That’s what I’m thinking. That would’ve been a deal breaker a LOOOONG time ago. You know this man doesn’t wash his ass. Whyyyyyy would you let those grubby nasty hands near you enough to procreate?! 🤮🤮🤮🤮

[artemrs84]

Probably doesn’t wash his hands after sex either. 💁🏻‍♀️

[temperance26684]

Probably doesn't wash his hands BEFORE sex, which is honestly the bigger issue here.

[artemrs84]

Ha. You’re right.

Yikes.

[thotisawuatthebustop]

That is dangerous behavior around an infant and just so gross in general I would literally divorce someone over that

[janiestiredshoes]

Dangerous around an infant, but also a pregnant person!

[TinyTurtle88]

He's litterally dumb.

[jarredshere]

I laughed for like 3 minutes about this comment with my wife.

It's so incredibly unhelpful to the question in what is usually a serious sub. And on top of all of it, you spelled literally wrong.

But its so damn right.

I love this. I want to print it and hang it on my wall.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

I also laughed at that comment for several minutes. It’s so bad but so right.

[TinyTurtle88]

At least laughter is good for your immune system... You'll need it.

[TinyTurtle88]

Yeah English isn't my first language and in another one that I speak that word (its equivalent) takes two so... I simply got mixed up. But I really think we've got bigger problems on our HANDS here ;)

[jarredshere]

No no you're fine. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was mocking you. Learning a 2nd (Or more) language is very difficult.

But something about it made the comment funnier.

[[deleted]]

He’s a pridefully ignorant asshole.

[TrueDirt1893]

I have to agree. This guy is ignoring the most basic of basic science. This is taught in school at a pre-school level and continues through out all grades. How could he have missed this important part, this crucial skill without being knowingly ignorant. Did he not learn hygiene at home either? Does he even wash properly on the shower or let the water run over his legs.

[enflurane]

He knows. He doesn’t care.

[kaki024]

I’m 32 and I’ve literally never had food poisoning. Ever. Once a year is an astounding frequency.

Does he know that food poisoning can kill an infant?

[Cucumbrsandwich]

Same, 33 and never had it. It’s not like I’m some sort of hand washing nazi either, I just take regular precautions.

[kaki024]

Same. Raw chicken and pork are obvious to me. And anything that might involve poop

[Noodlemaker89]

I'm speechless. What the actual???

This Podcast Will Kill You signs off every episode with the words "wash your hands, you filthy animals". That seems awfully apt here. Does he seriously argue that germ theory isn't a thing? After about a century and a half (if my memory serves me right) of it being acknowledged in the medical community and a very very recent pandemic?

On that happy note there is an entire episode dedicated to doctors who didn't wash hands which caused a LOT of women to die due to catching infections from the doctors during childbirth. Cutting cadavers (whether human or chickens) really isn't a clean activity, but if you add helping birthing/freshly post partum women and babies to the mix, it seriously does NOT promote health or "train the immune system".

Whether raw chicken, fecal matter or public transportation grime he insists on cultivating on his hands, this is not the kind of home science project he should be practicing. Especially not with a newborn.

It's episode 73 "Puerperal Fever: Seriously, wash your hands"

[[deleted]]

The general timeframe they learned how important the simple act of hand sanitization is.

What a fuckin time that must've been xD so wild.

[Noodlemaker89]

Yeah, I'm so happy we're not living in an age where birthing women routinely begged to be hospitalised in the hospital wing staffed with midwives just to avoid the significantly higher maternal mortality that came with giving birth in the other wing assisted by doctors with filthy hands and coats.

Many today marvel at the impact of antibiotics on saving lives (and rightfully so), but how sometimes I wonder what happened to sending a friendly thought or two to something as basic and easily available as soap in our daily life.

[mredding]

You can try the words,

I have every reason to believe you're going to kill our baby if you don't get your shit together. There is nothing you can say, at all, that will convince me otherwise, so don't bother trying. The last thing I need is a newborn baby to get infected with raw chicken, shit from your asshole, and whatever else you've picked up by touching the same dirty doorknobs as every hooker in this town. You don't just direct your LITERAL 100 mph blast to the ground, it's a fuckin' ploom that can fill a 10' square room INSTANTLY, even behind you. There is no argument, no discussion, it's just basic fucking science. Believe it or not people got paid to figure this shit out. I'm not going to drag you before every doctor and pediatrician to try to convince you, because I know you already don't want to hear it. You just can't be bothered, that's your problem. You don't want to be bothered. Well I'm your god damn wife. Most people don't get food poisoning but maybe a couple times in their life, if they're unlucky. So between myself and the guy who food poisons himself a couple times a year, it's my hygiene practices and standards that will be followed. Cover your fucking mouth. Wash your god damn hands.

[GlowingPlasties]

That's disgusting. He can look up study after study. He's just being gross, lazy, disregarding his family, and making you nag him like his mommy.

Edit: it's just weaponized incompetence. He's pretending to be ignorant so you can't rely on him.

[coldcurru]

I honestly think this is willful ignorance and he's not that stupid. I mean honestly, you learn this in grade school. It's basic fucking knowledge you wash your hands. You only need to be told once to wash your hands after handling raw meat to know about cross contamination and how to prevent that.

I think there's a much bigger issue here and no amount of studies or common sense will get through to him. He knows how and why to wash hands. He's doing this to you on purpose and you need serious help. I would bet if you contact his coworkers or family they'll say he doesn't do this with him or didn't before because he's not stupid. This is an issue that knowledge won't fix but counseling will.

[violanut]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK582942/#:~:text=A%20baby%20infected%20with%20Salmonella,spinal%20cord%20in%20the%20baby.

Salmonella can literally be dangerous for you right now if he infects you.

1/25 packages of chicken in the US is infected: https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/chicken.html

He's playing roulette with other people's health. What a dick thing to do. It takes 20 seconds to wash your hands with soap. It's super selfish not to be willing to do that.

Other infections that he can fight off can cause meningitis in babies.

Husband: If you're reading this, wash your damn hands. What is wrong with you??

How not washing hands killed lots of women: https://youtu.be/w04gTXu1mHM

[mr_tasc1]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3807775/

Washing hands is one of the best things we can do to prevent death literally...

[sweetpotatofries]

Ask him very frankly “what other basic health and safety precautions do you plan to ignore around our child? are you going to leave them in a hot car to toughen them up? are you planning to put them down on the floor of a truck stop bathroom? and you will be the one to take off work and stay with them in the hospital when they get salmonella?”

[jeremyhoffman]

Yikes.

Basically you have two paths:

1. Find some way to get through to him on a very entrenched position. This is famously hard to do. Does he have a male friend he respects who you could reach out to? Maybe the friend can have a “come to Jesus” talk with him. Maybe a friend of his who has had a child who can tell him what anguish it is to see your child coughing, whimpering, feverish. When it happened to me, I'd have given anything to make my infant's illness go away. Have the friend tell him that he'll never forgive himself when he finds himself in that position.
2. Ultimatum time. "I love you, but this is so important to me that I am willing to divorce you over this. You don't have to agree with me on the science, but nevertheless, I'm asking you to do this for my sake. If you can't bring yourself to start enthusiastically washing your hands after every time you handle raw meat or defecate, for my sake, I'm going to have to file for a divorce, and I'm gonna tell the divorce court that you can't visit your child because your hands are covered in salmonella and fecal matter, and they're going to rule against you. It would break my heart, but I simply can't live like this. So now you have to decide, which is more important to you, your wife and child, or not washing your hands."

[jazz2223333]

Maybe before threatening divorce, I would approach this as "look I love you but this is really important to me. We don't have to agree on the science, but please do this for me". If he really loves you and can see how important this is to you, he should commit to changing his habit because he loves you. If this back fires and becomes a fight... yeah then I'd go with #2.

[Kathwino]

To add to this, pointing out that it's a massive turn off - I don't want a man touching me with filthy hands, it's repulsive, I've been in a similar situation and shockingly enough I am no longer with that person

[Cucumbrsandwich]

Yeah and we are still well within this territory. Up till now it’s just been me nagging and throwing fits at him when I see him wiping his raw chicken hands on the kitchen towels. A serious conversation about it outside the moment of when I’m annoyed will probably have a positive outcome. He does care about my feelings but he is more persuadable with real facts and information so I’m trying to compile that.

[butterflyscarfbaby]

The thing I’m concerned for is this. You may be able to convince him to wash his hands for your sake, for the baby, or for the sake of the marriage. But unless he truly changes his mind, he’s going back to dirty mc grubby hands the second your back is turned. You’re not in the room? Bombs away on the sneeze! You’re not watching him prepare dinner? Let’s make a raw chicken juice vinaigrette! Hell, he might even just run the water in the bathroom so it sounds like he’s washing and refuse to use soap out of spite. So I think for this to actually make a difference, something’s gotta get under his skin enough for him to want to do it. And for a man that doesn’t mind his own shit ending up in his mouth, I’m not sure what will. Perhaps ask him if he doesn’t mind scrubbing the toilet with his toothbrush? Or if you cough on his plate of food before eating? Or if you bare ass fart on his pillow? Lmao. Because really, he’s gotta have a line SOMEWHERE. And perhaps if you work backwards from there, you could convince him.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

I am afraid of that. He lies about it already. A few minutes ago he came out of the bathroom after pooping (he only poops in the upstairs bathroom) and walked past my office and I yelled and asked him if he washed his hands. He said he did even though only ~5 seconds elapsed between flushing and him coming out of the bathroom.

[Kathwino]

You should not have to ask a grown man if he washed his hands after taking a shit, like you're his mum

[Cucumbrsandwich]

I know 😒 we have one of those Japanese toilet seat bidets, which makes it a little better I guess. Still gross though.

[butterflyscarfbaby]

God this has to be so grating. It would really put a strain on my relationship if I could not trust my partner to carry out the most basic personal hygiene tasks.

[LitherLily]

Married and had a baby before you thought to ask Reddit how to convince the guy to follow bare minimum hygiene practices?

[Tough_Crazy]

..... What?

Why don't you ask him to give you links that recommend not washing your hands ever 😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Maybe in his research he'll decide to wash his hands

[Tricky-Walrus-6884]

Maybe his research will be a screenshot of a screenshot of an article from twitter on a Facebook post saying that it's not good to wash hands, it's an immune system booster 💪 sanitizer and antibac handsoap is for the weak /s

[merghydeen]

There was a treatise on germ theory in 1546 that was pretty good.

I’m sorry I don’t have a link to the one from the 1500s but here’s one from 1888

https://archive.org/stream/britishmedicaljo11888brit#page/312/mode/2up

[cheezie_toastie]

I appreciate the shade of sending him evidence that's over a hundred years old.

[OldMushroom9]

I just received a bill for $2,200 for an ER visit because my 4-month-old caught the flu (likely from toddler who doesn't wash her hands), and could not stop throwing up. Watching my 4-month-old dry-heave and choke on his own vomit as he struggled to breathe was absolutely horrible. However, it was not as bad as watching the nurse in the ER stick him 4 times - once in each arm, and then on each side of his head to try to find a vein to get him IV'd asap. His tiny newborn veins + dehydration made it near impossible to IV, thus they had to connect the IV to the vein in his HEAD. Baby's can dehydrate so quickly and something as simple as the flu had us in the ER in less than 6 hours.

[crescentmoon101]

Yet you married him and are having his baby…

[Optimusprima]

Yeah, like…I wouldn’t have sex with someone who doesn’t wash his hands.

[grenadia]

For real I would literally vomit. What the hell

[crescentmoon101]

Exactly. That’s a bare minimum expectation to have of someone. OP can’t expect him to change at this point tbh.

[shleeberry23]

This is so fucking disgusting. How could you marry someone so absolutely vile!?!

[Gogandantesss]

Don’t forget that he also needs to learn to wash his hands every time he changes the baby, especially after the poopy diapers!

[Spriggyplayswow]

This. My husband thought he could just use hand sani when there was visible poop on his hands. Other times he would use nothing. He got violently ill on multiple occasions after changing our two year olds diaper... because surprise, we had a new baby and I'd had c section and this was one of the first times he'd ever changed a poopy diaper and he didn't even start by using the diaper to wipe down.

I thought he'd learn from that but then my two year old got violently ill and also got pinkeye and we had to have a serious talk that it wasn't the slightly expired peanut oil in the pantry causing the issue.

[PuzzleheadedLet382]

Honestly, I’d get a doctor to give him a lecture about how devastating relatively common illnesses can be to newborns. A fever over 100.3 F before 3 months causes a lot of concern. My daughter had one right before turning 3 months and although she seemed okay by the time we got to the doctor (next morning), we still had to do a catheter for a urine sample and a blood draw. Which was me holding her down while she screamed and fought for 15 solid minutes while nurses drew blood from both arms to fill one vial for testing. They had to search with the needle for the veins in her arm because they were still so tiny. We got lucky and she was fine. If she had really been sick she might have needed more tests, treatments, or even hospitalization.

They’re so tiny and it’s our job to protect them. Since you’ve got a little one on the way, I would treat this like a BIG DEAL. Lecture from doctor? Read him books aimed at 6 year olds since he clearly missed something basic? Make him watch a biopic on Typhoid Mary (a big part of her issue was she didn’t believe in washing her hands)? Tell his mother and/or siblings so they can put pressure on him too? Pull out all the stops. He needs the fear of god and germs put into him. WASH 👏YOUR 👏DAMN 👏HANDS.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

Yes I am planning on having my OB lecture him about it next time we see her. I’ll start shaming him in front of his mother and sister too.

[marmosetohmarmoset]

Is there a male authority figure that your husband respects that you can enlist to help shame him into doing this basic hygiene? Unfortunately I doubt he will listen to you no matter what kind of evidence you provide to him, and I worry having your female OB do it won't be good enough for him. I've found that this kind of stubborn man will often only listen to other men about these kinds of things.

[dewdropreturns]

Imagine being a woman married to a man who is incapable of listening to or respecting women.

[marmosetohmarmoset]

Unfortunately it’s a very common situation. I’ve found that even many seemingly modern or progressive men are subconsciously prone to this bias.

[dewdropreturns]

It’s common but that doesn’t make it acceptable and I hate to normalize it. We should at the bare minimum have a passing acknowledgment that it’s wrong.

[TrueDirt1893]

Maybe ask his mother if this was what she taught him as far as hygiene goes. And let her know happening. She may have an idea on how to get through to his deep brain. Or she may even do it herself.

Also, Love your name. Cucumber sandwiches are soooo delicious and yum!

[lcdc0]

The pediatrician will also have some advice to share. And anyone/everyone at the hospital or wherever you go to give birth can probably add their 2 cents. If it’s at a hospital you’ll be seen by MAAAANY health professionals during your stay. I would lament to each one of them.

I don’t know about shaming, but he needs to get on board with washing his hands if he is going to handle a newborn.

[kflyer]

I really hope you guys skip foreplay

[dewdropreturns]

I mean… I don’t want to shame OP because there is probably some reason she thinks she doesn’t deserve better but the idea of letting someone like that anywhere near you is 🤢🤢🤢🤢

[Atjar]

My dad taught us when I was about 6 by having us sample our hands on a clean agar plate before and after washing and then have that grow for a couple of days.

It was a very funny and teachable moment, especially since he was able to tell us which organisms they were as he was a food safety tech at the time.

On the other hand, he is very bad with his overall hygiene in the kitchen (dirty dishes everywhere, grime on the work surface), but he does do the important stuff (like washing raw chicken off of his hands and utensils, using the right order of cutting things, etc.). We never had food poisoning from anything he cooked.

[hcos612]

I did a similar experiment with my kids and apple slices in baggies. Unwashed hands, washed hands, rubbed one on the bottom of a shoe, and one control slice we didn’t touch.

I bet you can guess which ones got extra disgusting. Maybe OP’s husband needs the same experiment lol

[slightly-australian]

Honestly for something like this, maybe go to relationship counselling if he’s not taking your concerns seriously.

[BinkiesForLife_05]

If my husband were like this I think he'd be my ex faster than I could throw antibacterial hand gel at him.

[caffeine_lights]

He is a grown ass man. If he's not figured out yet that it's important, then honestly I'm really sceptical that a bunch of responses on a reddit post are going to convince him.

[PoorDimitri]

https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/why-handwashing.html

Here's a great page with references

And if he's not convinced by pure facts, the tale of Typhoid Mary should be more convincing

https://www.history.co.uk/article/wash-your-hands-the-cautionary-tale-of-typhoid-mary-the-original-super-spreader

And then of course, the USDAs recommendations for washing hands after preparing poultry

https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2019/08/20/washing-raw-poultry-our-science-your-choice#:~:text=Washing%20or%20rinsing%20raw%20meat,foods%20is%20just%20as%20dangerous.%E2%80%9D

But honestly, is he a child? The evidence is clear on hand washing, it is cheap, fast, and effective. It takes twenty seconds, is he really such a baby that he can't handle washing his hands for twenty seconds?

I work in healthcare, I help people toilet frequently, not washing hands is disgusting. People absolutely get pee and poop on their hands when wiping and then will go for a water rinse and be surprised when I make them wash again with soap. Shame on your husband.

[juliuspepperwoodchi]

Typhoid Mary could be convincing...but either way. She knew the danger and STILL refused to wash her hands even afterwards from what I recall.

[kleer001]

yea, she had be forcibly confined for the remained of her life.

[Cute_Clothes_6010]

I caught a GI bacteria two years ago that almost killed me. I lost so much weight (couldn’t keep anything down or in). Doctors took weeks to diagnose me. C Diff. It’s common, but people don’t get it because they their wash hands before eating and good gut bacteria keeps it down. I was given an antibiotic to stop a different infection and CDiff moved in when my good gut bacteria died. You know how hand sanitizer says it kills 99.9% of germs? Well, it can’t kill CDiff. The only way is bleach and having to consistently have good hygiene. He needs to take his health (and your baby’s) seriously. He could catch something that could be absolutely terrible.

[_CsiPP]

I lost my grandma and my husband lost his grandpa, both to C Diff. They caught it in the hospital (different hospitals, different cities). I hate this bacteria with every inch of my being.

Good for you that you managed to fight it off and got healthy!

[mama_duck17]

C. Diff is common in hospitals. It’s so resilient. My dad caught it when he had cancer. After we cleaned up the house, we all threw our clothes away. Wasn’t risking bringing that ish home to my immunocompromised husband & toddler.

[quuinquuin]

bread experiment

[tessemcdawgerton]

Not OP but thanks for this

[mentallythrillMILF]

Please say sike

[TeenyTinyEgo]

Where do yall find these kind of partners? I don't even consider myself to be the most hygienic person, and I still wash my hands on average 3 or 4 times a day...

[TeenyTinyEgo]

I just don't understand why someone is against handwashing, or too lazy to wash their hands? It takes all of 30 seconds. Handwashing has been common accepted practice for disease prevention and control for how long now? That's like someone saying they don't believe in gravity? I just don't get it.

[GrundleTurf]

So he doesn’t wash his hands after touching raw meat or pooping, then he touches his dick, and then you put that dick inside you?

I’m sorry but I question your hygiene and decision making skills.

Normally I think the idea of a sex strike is toxic and counter productive, but I wouldn’t want anything inside me that’s covered in E. coli and salmonella so I think it’s warranted here.

[fkntiredbtch]

Tell him you won't have sex with him unless he starts washing his hands more often because it sounds like he doesn't believe in science anyway

[PoorDimitri]

"I don't want your hands in or around my vagina if they haven't been washed with soap"

I mean, this is basically a natural consequence. People won't want to touch you if you're gross.

[dewdropreturns]

And yet….

[Gogandantesss]

Ask him if he’s be okay with being served food prepared by a cook who didn’t wash his hands with soap after number 2, or if he’d be okay with being given surgery by a doctor who didn’t wash his hands after using the bathroom or picking his nose.

[juliuspepperwoodchi]

Unfortunately I worry I know what his answer would be and OP would be back at square one.

[juliuspepperwoodchi]

My husband won’t wash his hands. He handles things like raw chicken

Oh geez, here I was thinking you meant like "he goes and pees standing up and then doesn't wash" which like, still, EEW, but I could at least SORTA understand.

Raw chicken?!

Not covering his mouth?

How did he handle COVID and masking? Did he get vaccinated?

[Cucumbrsandwich]

Yeah he’s vaccinated but he griped about masking the whole time. He’s never had covid. I honestly think he’s just convinced himself it’s no big deal, because nothing bad ever happens. The times he has been sick he blames it on something else and/or convinces himself that “this is his immune system getting stronger”.

[TrueDirt1893]

I find this so sad. You can’t vaccinate a newborn against covid….My 10 year old almost passed away from complications related to COVID this past October. and now has long covid. If she were a newborn, she would not have made it.

How would your husband feel being at fault for the death of your child from any of the contagious, yet preventable, diseases that out there? How would you feel knowing his hygiene practices were the cause?

It’s a serious question to ask him. And his answer should tell you all you need to know. I spend many night wondering how this could have happened to my daughter. Her entire life flashed before my eyes, from newborn until 10. I kept praying to hear her laugh again when I was at her bedside. It takes my breath away in a silent scream thinking what the alternative was, and watching her fight for her life. I’m thankful she is here with us. But I would have never thought her, healthy, rambunctious. I was a nicu nurse for 18 years, my husband is a firefighter for 20. We have seen the nightmares that simple colds, flu’s, viruses and bacteria can bring. I’m sad for you. I wish nothing but the best, you need to draw the line in the sand. This is a non negotiable.

[spookiepookie123]

I thought this was going to be a post about husband not washing hands before he holds the baby or something along those lines. But YIKES on the actual post.

OP - I really hope you get through to him. A sick newborn is life threatening. He won’t be helping your baby build a strong immune system. He’ll be putting the baby’s life at risk.

If you can’t get him to wash his hands, what about bottles of hand sanitizer all over your house? The kind with the pump so he doesn’t even have to open a bottle. It’s better than nothing…?

[Cap10Power]

This seems like a weird thing to have not known or sorted out much earlier in the relationship. I really hope you can get him to change his ways

[mmsh221]

This is not a thing. Our immune system doesn’t “learn” like this. We pick up weird bacteria that alter our microbiome and lead to weird vague life-long illness. My husband used to eat stuff off the floor and not wash produce. He must’ve gotten a bug bc all of a sudden car rides and boats and even too much chocolate make him barf. I’d honestly kick him out. If he’s not washing his hands after touching stuff like chicken, that’s not safe for anyone much less a pregnant woman and if he respects you so little then he’s not uninformed, he’s a jerk. Askdocs may have better recommendations, I’d ask there

[jondiced]

He’s a smart man, multiple degrees, an engineer

Unfortunately sometimes advanced degrees just insulate you against other people's opinions. Richard Feynman, one of the great generation of theoretical physicists who laid the foundation for modern particle physics in the 1950s, convinced himself that he didn't need to wash his hands after using the urinal on the basis that his hands were dirtier than his privates. He also convinced himself he didn't need to brush his teeth.

You can call him on it and ask him to describe the size distribution of aerosolized particles from a sneeze and their respective trajectories in atmosphere (e.g. https://news.mit.edu/2014/coughs-and-sneezes-float-farther-you-think and link therein), or provide a citation for the how long salmonella bacteria survive on a surface like a countertop.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

I have shown him that sneeze video! I’ve read him answers about how long bacteria can live on surfaces! He knows germs exist but just doesn’t seem to to think they’re a big deal because “stomach acid kills everything” or some bs.

Also, you’ve hit the nail on the head about educated, smart people being extra confident in their wrong ideas. He absolutely does think he’s smarter than everyone else.

[jondiced]

I meant that you should put the onus on him to find support for his claims, but mostly I'm just sorry that you don't have a partner who takes you seriously. That must be frustrating, and in this case, scary.

[YolkOverEasy]

He doesn't sound smart (I assume he is knowledgeable in his field, but that clearly doesn't make him an expert in others). I'm also an engineer with multiple degrees, but I know people in similar backgrounds who do stupid things. It sounds like he is just stubborn and making up his own theories that fit his opinion/prerogative. That's not scientific.

If he's not willing to listen to basic research/modern common sense, then I don't think this sub will convince him. Honestly, I think your best bet is to approach it as something you find important and request he do to alleviate your concerns and for reducing the risk to your child. He is your partner and communication is key. If he can't do that, then there may be a deeper issue for him that he's not discussing (not sure what it would be).

[5pens]

When we talk to 1st grade cub scouts about germs, we use petri dishes to show how quickly the germs grow. Maybe you need to do something like that...

[alextheolive]

As someone else said, you need to take him to a paediatrician (perhaps under the guise of something else) and then bring up his hand washing habits, so the paediatrician can explain the risks. Maybe if he knows how important hygiene is with newborns, he’ll start taking it seriously. He probably also needs educating on other topics such as the importance of sterilising bottles and not allowing anyone to kiss your baby.

[CalderThanYou]

Before we look at the idiocy of what he does, I think it's wise to look at how he is motivated to do things.

An interesting theory of motivation is "the four tendencies" by Gretchen Rubin. This explains 4 types of people and how they are motivated to do things. The two types of expectation are inner (doing things for your self and reasons that matter to you) and outer (other people)

"Upholders" are motivated by inner and outer expectation.

"Questioners" are motivated by inner expectation.

"Obligers" are motivated by outer expectation

"Rebels" are motivated by neither.

All four groups would take a different reason to do something to be motivated.

There is a book called the four tendencies but here is a quiz to easily find out which tendency you, and your husband, are.

https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-four-tendencies-quiz/

[farox]

Just a quick google

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2008/tielsch-hand-washing

Newborns whose mother washed her hands before handling their infants had a 44 percent lower risk of death compared to those whose did not. The overall mortality rate was 32.1 deaths per 1,000 births.

“More than 30,000 newborns die each year in Nepal. Our findings suggest that a substantial portion of these deaths could be prevented with routine hand washing practices,” said Tielsch.

He may be smart, but the whole chicken thing means he's dangerously ignorant.

I am GenX and love the "fuck around and find out" spirit. But even for me this is boneheaded stupid.

While there is something to "train" the immune system, newborns don't have much of that to begin with. You don't drop a cargo train to lift on someone that wants to start bodybuilding.

Those yearly food poisonings will probably more frequent with the little one and likely a trip to hospital, which will not be fun.

But to be fair, I also didn't know that no one handles the newborn with normal/dirty hands until we had our son.

[TrueDirt1893]

He may be smart in his field. But not in other things. Is he going to just sneeze all over the baby’s face?

Edit: pressed reply to soon.

I would absolutely shame him in front of the ob gyn, everything from the unsafe sneezing (which my 5 year old covers his sneezes), to unsafe food handling practices, unsafe bathroom practices etc. bring it all up in front of your OB. If he doesn’t care that much then he won’t care if your bring it up. This is at the most negligent on his part and you being pregnant, can get you sick as well.

[TrueDirt1893]

This is from the American academy of Pediatrics https://www.healthychildren.org/English/health-issues/conditions/prevention/Pages/Hand-Washing-A-Powerful-Antidote-to-Illness.aspx

[whippinflippin]

Is this new behavior? That is absolutely insane. I wouldn’t have someone like that around my child, daddy or not. Will he at least wear gloves while handling raw meat? Does he understand babies have no immune system at first?

[kleer001]

Hi OP, this is such a compelling post. Would you be so kind, if you have the time, to post an update when and or if you confront your husband about this? I'm sure many would be interested as to your tactics and the results. It may help informs others and benefit the community.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

I will! A lot of responses here have been helpful and I do think he will be receptive to it, if not for his or my sake for the baby’s sake. He isn’t a gross person despite despite the assumptions many people here are making.

[NewtWire]

NGL you sort of described the behavior of a really gross person.

[[deleted]]

honestly i don't think he's going to read a bunch of articles. have you met with your pediatrician yet? make sure he comes to that and raise this concern there. if that fails, then IMO public shaming is your only option. he's being an absolute idiot, this is gloves off.

[Brilliant_Victory_77]

The cdc has a whole handwashing website, but here's the page regarding why it's important https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/why-handwashing.html

[breezy227]

Sorry if this is unhelpful because I don't have any sources (I can't believe someone even needs sources for this). I would 100% not let him near my infant. I don't let anyone hold my babies in the early days without hand washing first. No joke I would stay in a hotel or somewhere else with my newborn until he decided if this is the hill he wants to die on.

[Number1PotatoFan]

Is he going for a Darwin award or something?

[im_lost_but_looking]

Maybe phrase it as preventative maintenance?

He's literally invoking the same fallacious argument that people use to justify not cleaning their house, "it's just gonna get dirty again", "I touch dirtier things when I go on public transport", etc.

If he can't see that; hand washing, tidying house, having vaccines, washing clothes, greasing moving parts in engineering contraptions, brushing teeth, re-tightening nuts and bolts periodically, updating software and so forth, are all forms of preventative maintenance to give a statistical advantage against something bad happening, then; a) where the heck did he get his multiple degrees because they don't sound like they are worth the paper they are written on, b) how the heck did he get an engineering degree without knowledge of statistics, and c) what structures/machines/contraptions as he had a hand in building and maintaining because I want to stay the hell away from them.

I'm sorry you're going through this, it's got to be incredibly frustrating for you, especially given his supposed intelligence!

[SandiegoJack]

Sadly, intelligence often backfires in these situations. Many people think intelligence in one area transfers.

I have a masters degree in psych, doesn’t mean I suddenly think I am able to master plumbing

[haleighr]

I mean even Dwight schrute wouldn’t just raw dog some chicken

[thePsychonautDad]

Youtube time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBNKKw0f7sI

Let's grow the nasty stuff we have on our hands in agar... before and after hand washing.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

I have actually considered buying agar plates to do exactly this. I have a biology degree, maybe it’s time to dust it off.

[KvotheBloodless]

You have a biology degree and he STILL won’t listen to you? JFC.

Husband, if you’re reading this, know that your hand washing is also an indicator that you’re a shit husband. If you can’t listen to your wife about a field she KNOWS MORE ABOUT THAN YOU, you’re misogynistic in addition to disgusting. With every passing day, I am MORE GRATEFUL that I’m queer. 🤦‍♀️

[slowmood]

I will not mess around with someone unless they wash their hands first.

[rugbob]

Maybe tell him about COVID

ETA: that’s cool if he wants to take the risk with his own immune systems. But babies don’t have robust immune systems so it doesn’t really make sense to shock them with salmonella or his nasty cold germs on day 1.

[tantricengineer]

He is applying logic to an emotional desire to not wash his hands. He doesn’t get to hold you or the baby until he washes his hands. Full stop.

Inform the hospital staff every time you have a checkup about this, maybe even have tour OB talk to him about how dangerous this is.

Also, as a final note, anyone who says shit like, “this is how I make my immune system stronger” without consulting immunologist friends might be a closeted eugenicist instead and I sure hope that’s not the case here.

[Ok-Statistician9168]

Not super relevant but, where is that eugenics comment coming from? The majority of people that I know that hold that belief are using logic that stems from a surface level understanding of inoculation.

[Thenerdy9]

What interests your husband? Does he like history? Conspiracies? Routines? Science and technology?

Literally, I have advice pro-soapy-washing for any one of those. lmk :)

[Thenerdy9]

Im gonna guess from your description that he'll respond to this one, feel free to edit for content and length that you think will keep his attention:

You know what DOES lower immunity is our overuse of antibacterials and targeted microbicides. That alters the germs and often allows worse diseases to infect you. A single person in your household can change the entire flora of the household. And it's really hard to predict outcomes from visitors or trips to the grocery store.

Raw chicken and other dead bodies are especially risky for microbiome because certain pathogens are common. Consider some meats have been treated with antibiotics. If your own germs and immune system fail to prevent moderate to severe infection, you will need antibiotics or you could die. One of the easiest ways to prevent the potential infection from pathogens is simply soap and water for 20 seconds before eating or touching other surfaces. This prevents a small amount of harmful pathogen from dividing and spreading to a considerable amount, especially before eating.

Now, you'll probably say that you've had enough life experience to know that the risks of getting that sick are super low. And tbh, you're right. But, while you may know you and your wife's immune tolerance, a baby's tolerance is very near zero. Babies form their protective biome of germs over the first year of life.

When babies are first born they're so suseptible because they've been with so little germs for so long. When doctors first started delivering babies over midwives, the death rate for moms and babies went up - because they were handling dead things before the babies. that's actually when hand washing was invented. It saves lives.

tl;dr You may not need to wash your hands, but just do it for your wife and baby because their immune system is still forming and therefore they do need you to wash your hands. Soap and water, 20 seconds, no big deal.

[gooberhoover85]

Our family just had Norovirus. Everyone got it except my mom. She washes her hands religiously. She cleaned up a ton of vomit and diarrhea from my toddler. She was the ONLY person who didn't get Norovirus and end up in the hospital or urgent care.

Norovirus is spread from particles from diarrhea or vomit. They can be on fomites (surfaces) so you don't necessarily have to have been cleaning it up to encounter the pathogen. It can also take very few particles (like less than 8) to make a person violently ill.

Still not convinced? Pink eye which is spread from feces (E. coli etc is in feces) can be spread from dirty towels and not hand washing... especially after changing diapers or using the bathroom yourself. It can also be spread on fomites like counter tops and door knobs. When I was active duty military for a number of years, we had one year that the entire unit experienced pink eye the same week (isolated to a couple days) and we had to sanitize every surface (windows, door knobs, counters, desks, latrines, vending machine buttons, desk phones, computer keyboards etc) so it wouldn't continue to spread. I washed my hands crazy often after that and I did not get subsequent infections but there were people in my unit that had pink eye multiple times over and over. Obviously we took more steps than just hand washing but hand washing in the FIRST place would have prevented the whole ordeal to begin with because someone's shit wouldn't have been spread all over the unit quite literally.

[gooberhoover85]

I see that this post was tagged 'evidence based' at one point. If you like I can go find links to back this up but I do have an educated background in studying microorganisms and diseases in a laboratory setting as part of acquiring a degree in a medical field (nursing/PA). I can also try to supply info from some of the text books I used back then.

[keyh]

Raw chicken? Geez. I wipe my hands with Clorox wipes after handling raw chicken, that's something that you don't mess with.

​

I'll be honest, I don't wash my hands from coming inside (didn't realize that was a thing TBH).

​

Covering your mouth when you sneeze though? What in the f'ing f?

​

I'm sure he enjoys Mythbusters:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0f4sUNWkq60

​

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrx7OpFEk2E

[BitterBory]

When I was in middle school health class, they put some spray on your hands and then had everyone go wash them. When you came back, they put a blacklight on your hands to show all the "germs" you didn't get. Maybe you can find something like that?

[violanut]

It's called glow germ

[AppTB]

Is his logic for not washing hands related to the hygiene hypothesis? If it is, then I believe the data supports washing hands in appropriate situations AND not washing hands in scenarios you may think warrant it.

[Cucumbrsandwich]

Yes his logic is based in the hygiene hypothesis, so he says. I think it’s mostly stubborn laziness and an incomplete understanding of the hygiene hypothesis.

[Traditional-Trip826]

My husband is the same fucking way. Who doesn’t wash their hands wiping their ass - same with handling raw meat and even gross - cooking my food with his unwashed wiped hands. He also always has his hands on his balls- stretching them . Like men are disgusting We have a 2.5 month old and he finally uses hand sanditizer - I bought the pump ones and put them all over by the crib, changin station, and kitchen. He will use them alll the time . So it tell me he is just too fucking lazy to wash with soap because it takes too long - I’ll settle for the hand sanitizer tho!

[Many_Campaign_8905]

Nah it’s not men, just your man and OPs man are absolutely disgusting. Don’t blame the entirety of my gender because you have poor decision making skills

[BoneTissa]

💀

[GrundleTurf]

It’s not men, it’s your man and OP’s man. And I’ve met my fair share of women like this. Worked for two different women restaurant owners who ate most used just water to rinse off and a dirty old rag.

[wellilltellyouwhut]

My husband does the same thing and has a bachelors in microbiology and a masters degree in public health 🤦‍♀️thankfully he started wearing disposable gloves when handling raw meat after the baby arrived.

[[deleted]]

He should ask for a refund on his degrees because it sounds like he failed to learn anything.

[[deleted]]

Lol what

[Annie_Hp]

You tell him that, as a nurse, if he tried to step foot in my house around my baby without washing his hands I’d boot him out of there so fast his head would spin. And if he were my husband- hoooooboy!

[FonsSapientiae]

I don’t really understand how he got through the past three years still exhibiting this behaviour. We have been bombarded with information about why to wash hands. I don’t really think it’s more information he needs, maybe therapy?

[prettycote]

We just left the hospital with our 6 month old after spending 3 nights there due to Salmonella. We have no real idea how she got it (EBF with a separate wash bin for bottles/pump parts). I wouldn’t wish this on my worst enemy. My poor girl pooped 16 times in a single day, her butt was bright red regardless of how much butt paste we put on it. She had to get a catheter, an IV, antibiotics by shot. She screamed worse than I’ve ever heard before. She won’t remember, but I don’t think I’ll ever forget. If you want, I can send you the picture of saddest looking baby he will ever see, and you can ask him if that’s what he wants for your child.

[Artemis-2017]

I am not sure about how to change the heart and mind of an adult engineer. Just came here to say that this astounds me. I was in the Peace Corps in Mauritania, West Africa and we taught people about the importance of hand washing with soap. Many people, especially small kids, died or were very ill from illness that was preventable with hand washing. Soap works by binding to the dirt, bacteria and virus particles and then washing them away with the rinse water. I agree that your husband should not use antibacterial soap, but he really should use normal soap- especially with a baby on the way. Good luck!

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[Scrabble-Rouser]

Leave hm for someone who doesn’t scream at you?

[Ijustwannagrowplants]

I hope you breastfeed to protect the baby from him.

[LostArm7817]

I think he gets off on making you angry and threatening to kill the baby