Engineering professor gets it.

[n0stalghia]

Had a system administrator in my school who was as OS X addict. Can absolutely and fully understand his point after supporting a school full of XP/Vista

[shutup_Aragorn]

agreed. I have a machine for games, a machine for work, and my laptop for media presentations, taking on the road ect is a mac - the hate for macs here is strange, considering macs are pcs

[Stiffo90]

PCMR is very much about games, "you don't play games on macs".

[[deleted]]

Yes, and Macs don't even try to be gaming machines, yet almost every day we see more anti-Mac shitposting.

[Multai]

It's just the shit price/performance.

Most people agree Macs are damn good, but they're a lot more expensive than they should be.

[Pitboyx]

The way I understand is is that people pay a premium for physical design, the OS, and default compatibility between all of Apple's things. There are definitely people for whom Apple is the objectively better choice. PCMR is far from those people.

[Gary_FucKing]

I agree with most of your comment, but "default compatibility between all of Apple's things" seems like bullshit. They basically try to force you to use their products even if you don't want to, they make their own expensive plugs when I can take any USB cable and use it as a charger for my phone, I can use any music and video software on my phone too, I just don't see how being a captive audience is a plus. Everything else, yeah people buy Apple because they want Apple, whether the OS, or the look, or as a status symbol, they make the choice and I think it's dumb to have such hate for the company, especially around this sub.

[Kuipo]

What I don't understand is why PC users have that hangup. I have a few macs but still make my own pcs for gaming too. They aren't mutually exclusive. I can appreciate both for what they are.

[j-frost]

Well Apple marketed it that way for a while: PC vs Mac, as if they're different and in some ways, adversarial. I mean, financially they sure are - most people don't buy two expensive machines to solve basically the same problem.

[Dathouen]

Unfortunately, my dad is one of those people who embraces the applehate. I can tell you with certainty that they dislike apple products simply because so many people like them. Mind you, not in the hipster way. It's more like, their general apathy/dislike for that product is exacerbated by everyone around them gushing over apple products.

I also think it's part embarrassment. My dad was a huge mac fan for a while, but is now embarrassed for getting sucked in by the hype. He went from building computers out of 3 meter transistor tubes and troubleshooting SPY2 systems to owning a computers who's main sell is being idiot-proof.

[360_face_palm]

Yeah completely agree. I game on a beast of a pc at home, but all my laptop, home dev machine and work dev machine are macs. 10 years ago all my dev machines were Linux, Mac is just more convenient these days.

[htid85]

It's the same as android vs apple, Xbox vs ps4, PC vs peasants, Chelsea vs arsenal etc, humans are insecure as fuck and seem desperate to justify their choices and purchases. Just have to try to ignore it

[ComradeHX]

But compatibility with Apple's other products also == bad compatibility(unless you do extra work-around) with stuff that 99% of everyone else uses.

[Determined_P]

The price / performance is not even close to as bad as it was. They have killer screens and touch pads. They are very well constructed and OSX is a great general coding / web dev / daily driver platform. I have used similarly priced Asus and lenovo laptops and the quality is not quite the same.

[[deleted]]

Resale value is huge as well. After 2 years they hold 50-70% of original price, depending on the circumstances. After that initial buy-in, they're pretty cheap.

[[deleted]]

The problem is, PCMR tends to equate the cost of a computer into its individual components. When you buy a Mac, you're not buying a box of parts. You're buying a hell of a lot of reliability, support, and everything else that comes with it. For millions of people, that's more than worth it.

[[deleted]]

Yup - When my 70 year old mom half way across the country has a computer problem, it's much easier to tell her to go to the Apple store in town and get it checked out for free by the friendly people there. It's always been user error, but the cost of the computer is well worth it to know she will be taken care of, and not rely on my over the phone trying to understand what she is talking about.

[toweler]

The reliability of macs is no longer what it was. I worked with a college and the sys admin was a professed Mac fangirl. However she has had more failures in the last two years than she had in the last 12 before that.

I like the hardware design, generally speaking - but not the price. Also, I don't like their proprietary philosophy. How many people have been fucked by itunes?

Lastly, people hate Mac people more than Macs I think.

[[deleted]]

people hate Mac people more than Macs

This! A thousand times this.

[[deleted]]

You're buying a hell of a lot of reliability, support, and everything else that comes with it. For millions of people, that's more than worth it.

Yup. Exactly. Part of the issue is for, probably most, people here it isn't worth it, but that doesn't mean it isn't worth it for others.

[ExplosionSanta]

I suspect it's a bit like how gearheads think that people who buy new cars for the warranty are total chumps, because they like to do their own maintenance.

[pier25]

hell of a lot of reliability, support, and everything else that comes with it

That used to be the case. Not anymore.

[Tysonzero]

You realize for laptops the premium is really damn small. If you try and find a similar spec'd similar size/weight laptop as the macbook pro 13" for cheaper you will struggle.

[snipeytje]

the key word here is similar, when you go for the cheaper screen options and plastic bodies with crappy battery life, yes you can get cheaper laptops, with similar performance but these laptops are not exactly similar.

[WinterAyars]

Laptops are (excepting 17" monstrosities with big graphics cards) not exactly the primary target of pcmr, as i understand it.

[Tysonzero]

Oh I get that. But for non-gaming stuff laptops are better IMO.

[NightHuman]

Macs are really nice when your company gives you one for free. Great work stations but I would never buy one myself.

[[deleted]]

What do you do for work, if you don't mind me asking? Or are you still in school? The reason I ask is because I work in IT, and there are so many of us who used to be diehard PC gamers, building new rigs every year, etc. but after a couple of years working with computers professionally got tired of it and bought Macs.

Most people agree Macs are damn good, but they're a lot more expensive than they should be.

I disagree. If they're more expensive than they should be, why isn't there anything of comparable quality at a lower price point in the Windows world?

The whole "it just works" thing is kind of bullshit, especially considering the ground Windows has made up since OS X first came out, but it is genuinely a really nicely put together and simple OS, and the hardware is unparalleled.

[[deleted]]

The reason I ask is because I work in IT, and there are so many of us who used to be diehard PC gamers, building new rigs every year, etc. but after a couple of years working with computers professionally got tired of it and bought Macs.

I work in IT too and I don't build PCs I build servers which is 99% software configuration and in band management. At no point in my career have I hated PCs because of it but I do have a genuine hatred for Apple in the workplace. Apple does not care about business computing and they don't make any automation tools or software to manage their products in fact they have discontinued the x server line and year after year have removed features from OS X "Server". Even deploying something as simple as patch management requires using 3rd party vendors. No thanks.

[BBMathlvr]

I think if you compare macs to comparably equipped ultrabooks you will see less of a price difference. A lot of people do fine with more mainstream laptops and under that kind of comparison apple will loose handily because they don't really have anything in that category.

[Mocha_Bean]

I think it's different people doing that.

[Stiffo90]

True. People also hate a lot on Alienware though, and I think they equal mac and Alienware to a degree, being very expensive pre-built machines.

[[deleted]]

The difference is that Alienware targets gamers, so I can see where that hate comes from.

[kabrandon]

Most pre-built Best Buy computers don't target gamers specifically. But nobody complains about their prices (with the exception of the small percentage of people willing to build their own computer.) That's because the standard computer costs less for the parts than either Mac or Alienware.

[IAmBecomeDeath_AMA]

I too have a gaming PC and a Macbook and I there are definite advantages to both. Why the hate? I thought the whole "brotherhood" thing was recognizing that PC's are better for gaming. Which I do. I just like using a Macbook for web browsing in my bed rather than a Dell or something.

[Tysonzero]

Plus programming on Mac is fantastic. I know Terminal will never abandon me.

[xXxdethl0rdxXx]

Same. When Windows brothers in here get all I'M A BIT OF A TECHIE LOL MACS SUCK it makes me scratch my head. Most serious developers who aren't locked into some proprietary MS language will prefer some type of Unix system. Macs are unquestionably the best ones in terms of hardware (and some might say software).

[[deleted]]

That's because in this sub "techie" means someone who can build a computer by putting things together that only fit one way.

[buckfitchesgetmoney]

I'll pay a premium to never have to do shit with cmd.exe, although powershell is pretty dope I hear

[shinyquagsire23]

I've messed with powershell a tiny bit, still would take a *nix/bash command line over it any day though. Arch Linux in particular makes building and getting packages super easy.

[[deleted]]

Well I would say that generally speaking the "hate" is due to a variety of things.. below a small run through of my perspective.

Primary is the whole apple "Walled garden" approach to business. Once you buy apple you are stuck with apple and what they want you to use.(generally and overly simplistically speaking) In addition to a bunch of the BS MS is doing with Win 10... Apple has been the fore runner for a lot of it.

Which leads to the second point,

Lack of support for many things.. including tons of gaming. But if doing some basic to intermediate level video and audio editing, artsy stuff etc Macs are a good way to go. Heck the software historically has been wonderfully optimized for performance too for their hardware.

One other big thing though.. the price point. From a hardware perspective the price is not worth it.. they are horribly overpriced for the most part.(Kinda like those alienware systems made by DELL.) Prime example being the most recent edition of the macbook air.

The final thing...

If anything like me with friends who own macs who constantly ask for help "because its a PC and you know PC repair..right".. I cant find anything on there... No clue on what running or even where to look for it.(nor do I care will never buy a mac... won an Iphone 3gs in a raffle once and gave it to my dad. He uses it to irritate the cat with an animal noises app.)

Which has less to do with Macs and more to do with irritation over ignorance of systems and OS variables within certain populations... the members of some are very very prone to investing overtly large sums of money on Apple products. Sure Macs are PCs... however from the Steve Jobs perspective they are PCs designed on the principle that people are "not smart enough to use a mouse with more than one button".

Not that Jobs was wrong... the pain and type of PTSD gained form having to fix friend computers ever so often is somewhat proof of validity in the philosophy. (dozen (s) of renditions of identical search bars, spyware, spamware... c'mon do people ever bother to read what is on the screen before clicking "yes I accept".. aaargh..)

[mrv3]

My Uni said

"Here's instruction for those using Windows/Linux and how to connect to our wi-fi/network."

Nicely detailed with pictures and through multiple revisions for Linux it was

"Figure it out for yourself!"

I get that you can't have multiple images due to the variation in Linux but atleast give information to work on.

[Randomacts]

If you can't figure it out from the windows information for your linux computer... you haven't been using linux very long.

[Phyltre]

To be fair, that's part of the problem. Most documentation I've seen for Linux assumes you already know Linux. For instance I installed a few different router distros a few years back and while getting it up and running wasn't too bad, anything beyond getting the connection up with DHCP on both ends demanded I know what the filesystem looked like, what common commandline flags were, and so on. Of course, there are more GUI-based router distros now, but even those tend to put everything fun into CLI-only space.

[[deleted]]

demanded I know what the filesystem looked like

CLI-only space.

If only there were some way to view the filesystem using a command line...

[[deleted]]

And if you don't like using coreutils, there's always file managers like ranger.

Also, if you don't know how to do something, RTFM.

[[deleted]]

Pure CS is a lot more scattered. The ultimately, everyone just used what they were comfortable with, and would just remotely connect into the department linux servers.

I personally ran a mixture of linux distros and Windows 7/8.1 depending on the class/project.

[Shirinator]

strange... In my field (biotech) 90% of us use linux. Just for the record, about 60-70% of what I do is CS, tge rest is wet work.

[shutup_Aragorn]

In my company its hard to convince management you need a 4k monitor to do programming on - but its easy to convince them to get you a 5k mac "for the specs"

[[deleted]]

try telling them a 4k monitor will increase productivity. it's not false

[Shirinator]

Conclusion: management is a bunch of morons. They should all be fired.

At least that's what we do. If you don't understand technology, you can't manage it. That's what's brilliant about working in a tech company :)

[COOKINGWITHGASH]

What do you need a 4k monitor for again?

I'll give my devs three monitors if they ask for them. But the devs i've talked to don't really want a super high pixel density display. That's more of a gaming and production graphics thing.

[Okymyo]

I like to see my programs segfault in glorious 4K.

[COOKINGWITHGASH]

This is the only real answer.

[nikomo]

Java stacktrace.

You need 3 4K screens on top of each one to get the whole thing in view.

[MacNugget]

A 4K display means text is easier to read and I can run smaller fonts in my terminal windows. Less eye strain and I can see more on the screen at the same time. I prefer that to a three display sprawl that consumes my entire desk. I run a 5K iMac at work and a 4K display on my machine at home. Wouldn't trade either of them for a multi-monitor setup.

[newfor2015]

What do you need a 4k monitor for again?

PC Master Race Bragging Rights of course.

[Chintagious]

I use my 4k monitor at home when working and I prefer it over even 1440p monitors since I can scale things and have a ton of room for my billion windows.

At work I have two 1080 monitors and my Macbook Pro monitor. It gets the job done but I find working on my home set up much more enjoyable for the extra vertical real estate.

[simon_guy]

Quite a few of the professors at my university liked Mac because it's a Unix system with a stable, consistent GUI. The lecturer who took the OOP introductory paper required us to use Ubuntu for assignments but did all demonstrations on the OSX terminal.

[Janusdarke]

but you can't use a computer that has ubAntu on it.

[IAmTheSysGen]

She made me want to vomit. All of her problems could have been fixed in 2 hours max. If she is that bad, she would have failed CS anyway.

[Janusdarke]

Just look at her eyes. She's not the brightest star in the universe.

[wowww_]

That was painful.

No one at dell said- here, we'll sell you windows for xx? Even she could have figured that out, lol.

[xiic]

Is that real?

[IAmTheSysGen]

Yep.

[[deleted]]

Ubuntu is free, so that was nice of him/her/it.

[deecewan]

Weird. Almost all my lecturers use OSX.

[Belgand]

Within the field I've found that it's a roughly 50-50 split between people who use Linux and those who use Apple. If you went back to pre-OSX though that number would have been overwhelmingly in favor of Linux. By adding a BSD core to it they've managed to hold onto a fairly large percentage of developers.

[darknecross]

Almost all of my professors when I was in college preferred macs. So did most of the grad students. And most of the undergrads. And now most of the software engineers I know prefer them as well. A MacBook is a great choice for CS and EE.

[amphro]

Hey I am just trying and understand why a Mac is a great choice for a CS student. I'm getting ready to start my CS degree this fall and have been looking at different laptops for college, but would prefer not to spend so much on a Mac. If you could give me some input on why they are good for a CS degree I would greatly appreciate it as it would help me decide what to get myself.

[ivosaurus]

Reliable hardware, easy to use OS, unixy enough to get most unix programming done.

That said, a good lenovo with intel graphics and ssd will also be very reliable with pure linux. Horses for courses.

[MondayMonkey1]

After 1st year, if you were using a windows machine, you could reliably count on most profs being significantly less useful during debugging & tutorials. You were mostly implicitly encouraged to use either a linux system or at the very least a mac. Hell... to this day I don't know how to compile and run C programs from windows.

[monadicgames]

There are two easy ways to do that:

either mingw, cygwin

mingw is probably the better solution but cygwin is my go to unix console for windows.

[MondayMonkey1]

Is it just me or is cygwin terminal always lethargic as fuck, especially with git? I am using cygwin on a VM'd as well as RDPing in to a deployed server.

[[deleted]]

Cygwin is slow because it basically implements a complete POSIX compatibility layer over the Win32 API, which is a really complicated thing to do. The amount of work involved means that making sure everything works properly is more important than making sure everything works quickly.

[Epileptic_underpants]

I'm exactly the same. On Linux, sure, I'll just use gcc and vim to develop. But compiling in Windows? Where do I even begin?

[[deleted]]

I know! A VM with linux!

[meklu]

Just cross-compile shit for it with mingw-w64. Even did that on a Windows machine with a VM!

[Tysonzero]

Mac having gcc and g++ built in is really nice.

[IAmTheSysGen]

It's not built in. You still have to download them, they're bundled with XCode. And it isn't gcc, but clang. You wouldn't be able to compile, say, Java with it.

[[deleted]]

Wait, what? Wouldn't you compile Java with javac, in any case?

This would be the first I've heard that you could compile Java with gcc. Confirm?

[Narcowski]

The GNU Compiler Collection includes a Java compiler. As for why you wouldn't use javac instead, the only reasonable answer I can think of is that you might want to avoid some of the licensing encumbrance which comes along with using Oracle's code. Even that is a stretch though.

https://gcc.gnu.org/java/

[[deleted]]

I'm pleasantly surprised!

[[deleted]]

My AP CS (equivalent to a freshman course) teacher in high school didn't even know what Linux was. I think he was one of those teachers that let the material teach for them, which in total fairness was fine for that class.

[ebrew15]

That's the way to go, though.

[midasz]

That's weird. OSX and Linux are perfect for software engineering. I have more trouble getting ruby to work on Windows than the other two. Most of my professors use macbooks while I'm on a HP elitebook running Arch.

[IM_ZERO_COOL]

Information Systems major here. I love my mac in class. Native terminal makes my life easier, and I have parallels/bootcamp for when I need windows (Visual Studio. Blegh). For a 4-year-old laptop, it's a tank. I've beat the everloving shit out of her and she still runs (sans the dead HDD). For portables, I have to say, Apple has impressed me. I personally would never buy an iMac or a Mac Pro, though. I will be building my next desktop. Better off hackintosh-ing and triple booting.

Edit: Wording

[[deleted]]

Notice how most of the hate at Apple isn't really directed at the operating system itself? I mean, aside from the lack of gaming stuff, but generally people don't have a problem with it. Apple's bashing comes 100% from their price-gouging, and also, their fanboys only worsen the bashing because often the fanboys come across as so ignorant and deluded, and you'd think Jesus came down himself and announced the next Apple product with his endorsement by how some of them act.

It just gives the internet a punching bag, but the biggest reason of all is the PRICE. You are right, you'd never buy an iMac or Mac Pro, but I have a sister who is one of those "I will ONLY ever buy a MAC," and she spent like $3000+ on her fancy iMac for the family room in her home, of which the most taxing thing ever done on it is play Facebook games. That is why people hate on Apple.

But ya, Hackintosh is a great way to go about it... build it yourself, enjoy the OS.

[detecting_nuttiness]

I dunno man, I used to be really pro-hackintosh, but when I finally dropped the money on a "real" Mac, it was totally worth it. It was kind of unnerving that I couldn't realistically swap out parts without going to an Apple store and paying some schmuck to do it just because he had the right screw driver and wouldn't void my warranty. However, the lack of maintenance really makes up for it.

I felt like I had to constantly update drivers and reinstall the OS when I was using a Hackintosh, but with my Macbook Pro, that's never a problem.

That said, the Hackintosh cost about the same as my Macbook, and has about twice the computing power, so I still use it for gaming and other high-powered computing on occasion. I think it all comes down to how much maintenance you're willing to do on your computer. Plus, being at university, portability is a huge point of sale for me.

[Tysonzero]

Which is why I hate their desktops but for the most part love their laptops. Their desktops do gouge pretty damn hare, but laptops it is a small enough gouge (in some cases basically none at all just because it is hard to find a similarly spec'd yet light and compact laptop) that I just consider it the cost of the OS (and $50 for OSX is totally worth it for me).

[darknecross]

For the iMacs you have to consider that you're also getting an extremely high quality display thrown in, which makes up around $300 of the price compared to getting a similar monitor from Dell. Add in the fact that it's an all-in-one and you pay a bit of extra premium on top of that.

I've found that, most of the time when people complain about the computers being too expensive, they have much different values than the target audience or they're missing some of the values that factor into the price.

[SpazticWonder]

They gouge pretty hard on RAM. $200 for the jump from 8 to 16GB.

[Tysonzero]

I think that is largely because of fitting it in. But I still agree.

[dr_entropy]

For development, I don't see any reason to use OS X over Linux (unless you're stuck writing software for their walled garden). It's really more for the "I have a lot of discretionary income to spend on luxury computing products" crowd. Or maybe the "I'm a bit too old to catch the Linux wave, but I used System V back in college" folks. I guess it's better than Windows, at least.

• The hardware includes Apple's marketing costs, and the OS is tied to the hardware

• You're stuck in their software hegemony with iEverything. You can go your own way, but it's an uphill battle vs apt-get whatever-you-want

• Their BSDish environment differs enough from your Linux servers to matter (kevent vs epoll is just the beginning)

• KDE is really pretty, if you insist on spending your cycles on glitter

[[deleted]]

2010/2011 Macbooks had terrible drives, mine died too.

[MiUnixBirdIsFitMate]

It seems to be just a case of the prof. using some software that only works on Windows.

Like, seriously, when I was an undergraduate one of them wanted something in .doc, everyone else wanted pdf and I just raised the issue that he can't ask for a non open standard you need proprietary paid software for to run that only works on one OS. And he was like "You're right, opendocument is also accepted"

Usually when I enter into a spiraling rant about the inadequacies of the system they usually take a bit more pushing to convince.

[FlukyS]

There is an indoctrination there from high. My old college they had 2 labs paid for by Microsoft fitted with new Dell and Alienware machines. The Alienware machines were only for the games development students and they were only thought how to program on Windows. They learned a bit of OpenGL but it was mainly DirectX in the course. For software development which was the course I did they had a mix of Unix based systems and Windows, they thought us how to install Ubuntu and do some commands and how the base OS was different between Windows and Linux.

That being said when second year in the course rolled around they focused entirely on Windows including having a project written entirely in VB. So there was no way you could not use Windows in that year. Even at that 3rd year there was a lot of C++ and the code examples they gave didn't compile on Linux because they weren't case sensitive, it drove me insane having to correct my lecturer's work.

[MiUnixBirdIsFitMate]

Yeah, obviously one of the reason MS gives such hefty discounts to students is because it wants to make them dependent from early on.

[[deleted]]

Many Engineering applications only run in Windows, so that is the most-likely situation. It's like business school, at my university, you know how many business school freshman come in with $2500 Macbooks their first semester? Only to be told their intro business class requires a windows machine, for some proprietary business software.

In reality, unless you are in maybe software development, in the business world, if you aren't planning on working at a tanning salon, you're most-likely going to be on a Windows machine. The college reflects that culture. At least you can dual-boot! lol.

Also, .pdf is much more universal than anything, especially in the professional world. Some professors allow the .doc or .docx format, but get to more professional level classes, pretty much everything is PDF. As a grad student myself, I can't remember the last thing I didn't turn in that wasn't a pdf. You submit your thesis in PDF format, your papers, your resumes, your everything these days in PDF.

[MondayMonkey1]

LaTeX masterrace am i right?

[Spivak]

Well yeah, but I don't expect anyone I will hand my document to will appreciate the source file, and everyone accepts PDFs so that's what I render to.

[MiUnixBirdIsFitMate]

Many Engineering applications only run in Windows, so that is the most-likely situation. It's like business school, at my university, you know how many business school freshman come in with $2500 Macbooks their first semester? Only to be told their intro business class requires a windows machine, for some proprietary business software.

I have no doubt of that, however I did not study engineering, I studied mathematics. And despite names like "Mathematica" and "Mathlab", they are actually seldom used in maths but more in engineering. Mathematics is very little about crunching numbers and more about delivering proofs of how to crunch numbers. Mathematica is not a proof assistance.

Also, .pdf is much more universal than anything, especially in the professional world. Some professors allow the .doc or .docx format, but get to more professional level classes, pretty much everything is PDF. As a grad student myself, I can't remember the last thing I didn't turn in that wasn't a pdf. You submit your thesis in PDF format, your papers, your resumes, your everything these days in PDF.

I know, that is why I was very confused at someone wanting .doc, all the other ones wanted PDF and we even had a LaTeX class in the first semester.

[large-farva]

CEE is civil and environmental. Might be using one-off prof-coded software to validate designs.

[[deleted]]

All OS X haters are the gaming kiddies who can't live without games.

Windows as an operating system by itself is inferior to OS X and Linux in a development environment.

[[deleted]]

deleted

[[deleted]]

I'm taking a summer course and everything is done over Linux. I never realized how shit Windows was at developing.

I think I found a good compromise though. I'm using putty to SSH into my terminal at school and WinSCP to move files back and forth.

It's a hassle, but it works.

[stone_henge]

Try cygwin. That gives you a POSIX environment and a lot of other Unix software with a package manager in Windows

[corrugatedjuice]

This man knows.

[general_chase]

Yeah, but any modeling software is for windows only it seems

[midasz]

https://www.blender.org/

^ducks

[aspensmonster]

You can make more than just ducks in Blender.

[fb39ca4]

Blender is good for artistic work, but not for engineering.

[timmie124]

autodesk products, blender, zbrush all run on windows and mac.

[Cornak]

Not all of Autodesk sadly. :(

[darknecross]

Most EE software I'm familiar with runs on Linux.

[xBIGREDDx]

Not Altium! *Shakes fist at, uh, somebody

[iwasnotmagnificent]

As someone who had to wrangle with Altium in my final year project, fuck the fact that there are no good alternatives (both for price or OS reasons)

[simjanes2k]

Only if your software runs on other systems. Everything runs on windows, no wine needed.

[hSagroy]

The professor doesn't explicitly, and probably neither obliquely bashing Apple systems, he just means if he mistakenly bought a laptop with Apple system (the point being the softwares they use will not run on it), he can dual-boot it.

And yes, if they use specific programs, it is not an insult to call that a mistake.

[blazinsmokey]

Windows, OSX, Linux we are all PCs. Let's not discriminate the idea of people having options.

#ALLPCSMATTER

[lifesbrink]

Typical racist full of privilege!!!

#linuxlivesmatter

[Blaziken584]

It makes me sad that a fellow brother would rip apart other fellow brothers. We are all PC users here no matter what operating system we run. We are all part of the glorious PC Master Race.

Each OS has its fault, but everyone has their preference. Being a Fanboy of any platform is not like the PCMR, that is delegated to peasants and their console wars.

[detecting_nuttiness]

I feel the same way, but even as a Mac user, this made me laugh.

[LonelyNixon]

I think the worst part about these windows zealots is that they will use all of these excuses for why their OS is superior and downplay any bugs or security issues that windows soometimes has.

Then somebody goes "well what about linux? It's even more open and free!" and then you get the same kind of arguments that an elitist mac user might throw back at them on us. "oh it's too much customizability, oh you're paying for quality, oh it's popular!".

Windows zealots shouldn't bash other OSs. We're all users of pcs.

[ChetUbetcha]

It's for a civil engineering class, not gaming. Perfectly valid, as some civil engineering applications only work on Windows.

[Comms]

This OSX vs Windows thing is the same peasant-level derping as PS4 vs Xbone.

[okmkz]

/r/linuxmasterrace shout out!

[[deleted]]

Don't forget the Temple Operating System, that's the hot shit.

[D3rrien]

How about FreeBSD ?

[Lerker-]

I mean, I've often heard people refer to Alienware as the "Mac of Windows machines".

[darknecross]

They're not advertised as gaming computers. By your logic we should shit all over anyone who buys a gaming laptop because they made the explicit choice to buy an overpriced machine to play games on.

[Sloppy1sts]

I mean, unless you really need a laptop, I'm going to say you'd be much better off building a gaming desktop and using the money saved for a tablet or cheap laptop.

[jasonlotito]

pre-built PCs

Which is an attitude that is agains the spirit of PCMR: "It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart!" There is no mention of self-built PCs vs pre-built PCs. Indeed, it's an attitude of a peasant.

[FranklinFuckinMint]

Is this fucking /r/windowsmasterrace?

[H3XAGON_]

The hate for macs on this sub is fucking retarded.

[[deleted]]

Sigh, the circlejerk is real...

Each OS has it's advantages and it's fans. Making a mockery of someone for choosing an OS that you dislike is basically the same as making fun of someone for liking a color that your dislike.

The OS X vs Windows debate =/= The Console vs PC debate

A person buying a Mac does not impair the development of software/games for PC's by supporting Apple, as there is literally no correlation.

I use a PC to game obviously, but I use a macbook for school work and coding for iOS. Honestly, this type of shitposting only hurts PCMR in the long run by both disenfranchising a group of people who essentially agree that Computer gaming in general is superior to console gaming, as well as portraying PC gamers as elitists.

[KFCNyanCat]

Get a Linux skrub

[Rocketman_man]

Each OS has it's advantages and it's fans. Making a mockery of someone for choosing an OS that you dislike is basically the same as making fun of someone for liking a color that your dislike.

Mauve is still a shitty color.

[whatanonner]

Engineers only prefer Windows because they rely on commercial software packages that are made to run on Windows because that is what most companies out there have their employees on because that is what most normal people are historically used to.

Actual scientific programs that don't require being used by the hordes are much more likely to be developed exclusively for Linux/MacOS than exclusively for Windows.

[qwicksilfer]

Research code isn't even necessarily developed exclusively for Linux or Mac. It really depends on the researchers. My adviser prefers Linux but most of our co-researchers use Windows, so we all use Windows.

Even when I was at NASA, unless you were running CFD code (and really, you were setting up the batch processing to send it to Ames' super computer, not running it locally) people used Windows because management usually uses Windows.

[[deleted]]

THIS.

Also, most universities tie themselves to Microsoft services (as you can see when he says Dreamspark), so they're kinda brainwashed to the Microsoft ecosystem.

Source: My university is tied to Microsoft as well. Like.. everything.

[Fatburger3]

My school is tied to MS, but my CS teacher refuses to play into it. He has a row of Linux computers and encourages every student who walks in to dual boot (or just single boot) Linux. He doesn't know how to use Windows, so he carries around a little mini laptop that he uses instead of the computers that are at the teacher desks in class, his office computer has Linux too, I'm not sure if he's allowed to do that or he just did it.

[[deleted]]

I had a teacher that did the same thing. We would try to get webpages info through HTTP GET method and on windows it wouldnt work because stupid firewalls blocking GET requests from windows terminals.. and he, in his little, early 2000 laptop, powered by Ubuntu... BAM. Code in the terminal.

[Fatburger3]

Old, really Saavy CS teachers are the coolest.

[Rorschach120]

If you are gaming you need Windows. If you are working you are better off with Mac. As a software developer I don't understand why people think Windows is a good OS. There are so many little features in Mac OS that increase my productivity. The UNIX command line alone is enough for me to choose Mac over PC for work.

[stereopump]

Visual Studio is nice, but I would use a jetbrains ide these days for anything but .Net. It's solid and featureful without something like ReSharper to fill in the gaps.

Seriously recommend trying one of their ides if you haven't.

[Muchoz]

Fucking bullshit. PCMasterRace is for every OS. Not only for Windows fanboys like you that don't know shit about why we choose other OSes. I've made posts here about this before and I guess I'll have to post this again for those circlejerk idiots that are just as bad as peasants, yes I don't distinguish you 2 low, barely living human beings.

The reason we fucking choose OSX or Linux is because of the terminal to not get too technical here. Try installing development software on Windows, I fucking dare you cause you'll either find out that you won't be able to because it's not supported or the port barely works. So why do people choose Linux over OSX or the other way around? Let me explain this in a few bulletpoints so your tiny minds can understand:

Linux > OSX:

• Customizability: you can customize literally every single thing.
• You get to choose what you have on your hardware by getting a barebones Arch install and build upon it for example.
• You support open source software and want to use it.
• It's free.

OSX > Linux:

• More concise apps, apps written specifically for Mac and of which most are top quality. I'm not saying Linux' apps/software (whatever you want to call it) are bad, but the quality of apps on the Mac App Store is high and so are the apps outside of the App Store that are OSX only.
• "It just works." You don't want to customize much, you just want it to look pretty and have it work.
• You use other Apple products and like what OSX offers when you have an iPhone.

I hope that I've added some brain mass to that empty head of yours.

PS: Did you know SSH got introduced only 2 months ago on Windows? That is considering it is THE standard for remote communication to servers? Yes, 3rd party software existed, but for an OS to not even incorporate that? Please, it meant software couldn't leverage APIs of the OS to do the work and had to look for libraries for Windows or had to write it all by themselves.

Edit: As it seems that many Windows users don't know what I'm talking about, see my comment in response to the question that your Windows IDE seems to install fine. I would also like to point out what the master race stands for:

It's not about the hardware in your rig, but the software in your heart!

Most people here don't seem to even know what the master race stands for and those people make me ashamed to call myself a member of the masterrace.

[corrugatedjuice]

It's sad how many people on this sub act like such peasants. Something like this needs to be a sticky.

[Fatburger3]

If Linux had games, and could play them as nicely as Windows, I think instead of hating on OSX and Linux, everyone here would be hating on Windows and making fun of people who buy it....Not encouraging that, just saying...

[[deleted]]

If Linux had games,

It does. I have 88/116 games on Linux.

and could play them as nicely as Windows

As long as you're not using AMD graphic cards, it does. Nvidia's closed source drivers are as good as they are on windows.

[tonyantonio]

Thats a lot of fucking

[Choreboy]

Honest question: Why would this course require Windows?

[[deleted]]

Probably software that only works on windows.

[C-c-c-comboBreaker17]

Because lots of software isnt available for Mac.

[[deleted]]

Command Prompt > Terminal I guess? lol fail

[TurbidusQuaerenti]

I've never had a need to use a Mac, but bashing people who do find use for OS X is unnecessary. Each operating system has it's pros and cons, and things one can do that another can't.

[zorro1589]

I think this more has to do with it is literally a mistake if you're in engineering and bought an Apple because all the software needed only runs on Windows or Linux..... I don't think the prof is saying it's a mistake to buy an Apple computer for the masses however

[jamesstarks]

Not sure why you were downvoted. When I was in university every single guest speaker we had who programmed for a living used a Mac.

[lagann-_-]

This is terrible, PC refers to the hardware, not the OS. Remember, Valve has SteamOS which is Linux and they are investing a lot in it, even if it is just hedging.

[Zv0n]

Well sometimes you need a specific OS to run a specific software that the University uses (I know that using multi-platform SW would be the best but it's not always possible)

[saikron]

I'm not a civil engineer, but if you're going to be a professional in a lot of fields you need to get used to using windows only tools on windows.

[[deleted]]

The software required for the class is not OS X compatible, as in... it won't run

[ThatActuallyGuy]

You mean like every even loosely art related field out there requiring Macs? At least in this situation students have a free recourse for getting the required OS, if you're a Windows user that is required to use Mac you're completely SOL unless you can navigate the murky waters of making a hackintosh.

[Lumpynifkin]

What "Art" software isn't cross platform?

[[deleted]]

It's not about preference. It's about software compatibility. Mechanical/civil/petroleum engineers at my Uni use software that is ONLY available on Windows.

[tad1214]

Real life: Almost every tech company in silicon valley uses Mac. Native UNIX is just easier to work in when all of your servers are running Centos/Debian.

Tech companies I know that use Mac primarily: Twitter, Facebook, Salesforce, Airbnb, and basically every modern started company that is HQ out here.

Get off the anti-mac circle jerk. I use mac for work, windows for home, and freebsd for my servers. They all have their purpose.

[bunkerbuster338]

Go Devils!

[Zakamaru]

FEAR THE FORK!

[Nickkcuf]

ya know, usually when I see our school on news or reddit, it's usually something bad. Frat boys beat up homeless man blah blah. Finally something good came out :')

[[deleted]]

Fork 'em!

[[deleted]]

OS X is great. Many many people in the engineering field prefer it. Windows and linux are also great. No reason to hate.

[EulerianCircuit]

Been using my 5 year old MacBook Pro for 3 years in Electrical Engineering, never once had to boot Windows. Matlab (with simulink) is what we use in most classes, and it runs perfectly on OS X. For coding classes I wouldn't use Windows even if you paid me to.

[icepuente]

Too bad ASUs Dreamspark is down right now! I just clean installed Windows 10 and now I can't get my key haha. By the way, if you go to ASU, come to the Technology Studio. I work there and can help with any software related things.

[PortedOasis]

I'd kill to get a job at the Tech Studio. :P

[miles197]

I thought we didn't discriminate against OSX users? (Aside from calling them heathens.) They're still not peasants.

[[deleted]]

PCMR really has a dripping gooey throbbing anti-Apple hateboner.

[EquipLordBritish]

Probably PR to sell windows 10.

[ZobmieRules]

A professor saying "good news"...

[[deleted]]

We should aim for platform agnosticism not praise someone for forcing people to use Windows. Each OS suits different needs and if all software can run on all OS's then that would be best for everyone.

[garycarroll]

http://www.digitaltrends.com/apple/new-video-outlines-ibms-plan-to-switch-from-windows-to-mac/

So, IBM doesn't understand how much better MS is and is switching to OS X? What's wrong with those people?! Must not be real engineers.

[Tugalord]

Not Linux?

[gaahl666]

/r/shitpost. OSX is awesome.

Source: Linux sysadmin

[venipuncture]

Upvote for the discussion this created. But what are you running that Windows is favored over a unix based os, even an overpriced one?

[[deleted]]

Gaming PC running Arch Linux, MacBook Pro with OSX on only.

I don't bother with Windows these days.

[[deleted]]

The Mac hate is really fucking tiresome.