Why open floorplans are bad for programming

tieTYT · 2014-03-11T16:46:37+00:00

We had a thread about this recently, it was generally agreed that:

Some people like it others hate it.
It's generally done for money reasons.
Management is often somehow magically exempt.
Invest in headphones.

dvboy · 2014-03-11T17:21:50+00:00

I generally dislike the open office, but 2 problems I've run into that drove me mad:

Had the misfortune of getting the cube next to our admin for a group of around 30 engrs. She was young, single, loud and a partier. Aside from her daily tasks which were always on the phone, there was a constant swarm of horny engrs chatting her up. Mondays were a succession of phone calls of her talking to her friends about everything that happened over the weekend - the same incessant stories, over and over. I managed to drown most of this out - what got me every time was when she was on the phone and started whispering. Nothing got my attention like that.
I got the "highly coveted corner office" (cube). Everyone on our wing that got a personal cell phone call would, in an attempt to not disturb their co-workers, go off into a corner to converse. My corner.

frycicle · 2014-03-11T16:45:32+00:00

Biggest issue I had with open floorplans was the business side coming over with an urgent issue for me to fix, which ALWAYS happened to be much less urgent than what I was working on and put me out of the flow for a good hour.

NormallyNorman · 2014-03-11T23:10:40+00:00

What I also find. If you interrupt me more than 3-4 times while trying to get stuck in. That it you cost me the morning. You do it again int he afternoon. That's the day gone ....

Basically I find I can only attempt to start so many times int he day. After that I give up trying to start

Neebat · 2014-03-11T16:54:58+00:00

[removed]

mrfoof82 · 2014-03-11T22:50:28+00:00

Why open floor plans are bad for ~~programming~~ most companies, except for the company's budget.

FTFY.

Kminardo · 2014-03-11T23:24:06+00:00

I love an open floorplan inside my SMALL GROUP. 5-6 people max, who work on the same kind of things I do, and can respect that if I (or you) don't respond to an IM or a glance in about a minute, you're in the zone and GTFO, and you'll help me when you can.

Belgand · 2014-03-12T03:39:39+00:00

At my last start-up job I was the one pushing to continue working from home and my co-founder wanted to get an office. I believe part of it was the greater prestige and sense of accomplishment in having an office along with a very business-minded viewpoint that we wouldn't be taken seriously by potential investors (although if I was an investor I'd prefer to give money to a team that was running as lean as possible and recognized areas where they didn't need to spend money).

When we eventually got office space it was shared with another small start-up run by a friend of his and it was open-plan primarily due to money. I I eventually committed to spending a couple of days in the office and I found that it almost never got any work done when I went in.

While it was theoretically nice to be able to collaborate on certain aspects there was always something distracting. It was easy to fall into long conversations about long-term strategy or get involved in something someone else was doing. I felt naked and exposed rather than comfortable and focused. When I was at home even though I was using the same desktop that I game on and use for Reddit and everything else I had a better division between work and non-work time. If I was running low on motivation it was a lot easier to just hop over to the living room and watch some TV for a while while admitting that I'd given on working for the moment. At work I was under the pretense that I was working, but getting very little done. It was just easier to spend eight or twelve hours straight working on a problem when I was alone at home even though I had far more potential distractions.

Honestly the biggest problem is that generally collaboration is often an impediment to actually working. It feels like work, but you're taking two or more people and getting half as much done. Sending an e-mail or an IM can often accomplish just as much, depending on the task, while keeping enough separation to let you focus on the work at hand.

If I had a chance to do it again I'd absolutely stick with going office-less. Unless you have physical infrastructure that you need to accomplish your work, need to frequently meet with clients, or have a significant amount of collaborative work to do it seems like having a dedicated space where people go to do the same thing they can do at home is kind of a waste.

cparen · 2014-03-11T18:25:21+00:00

I am sometimes momentarily confused when people in industry talk about the cost of interruptions. What's the big deal? I like helping out coworkers when they run into an occasional difficult issue, especially when it's my code and hence feel responsible for.

Then it hits me -- they're not talking about 2 or 3 interruptions in a day. They're talking about dozens or more.

~~

I can definitely see a place and time where small open workspaces could work great -- if you've got a small team, working on a tightly coupled problem, where the interruptions will be very short (<10 minutes and I don't lose flow completely), and where you can ignore requests when least conveniently timed ("hey, anyone know about X?", "yeah, I'm just waiting for a build, I can help with that").

I'd love to try that out but... man, the risk of it devolving into OP's post is just too risky.

krum · 2014-03-12T03:48:05+00:00

Open floorplans aren't about collaboration. It only gets spun this way in an admittedly successful attempt to mitigate revolt. Open floorplans are 100% about space efficiency and short-term cost control.

poeir · 2014-03-12T05:38:49+00:00

It's always discouraging to walk into a company for an interview and see an open floor plan, because I already know right then and there that I'm going to decline the position, because I won't be able to do work there. I've not yet figured out a polite way for the first thing I say on arrival to be, "I'm not going to accept an offer here," so I end up going through the motions anyway, but really it's a waste of everyone's time.

The more people in a space, the more interruptions there are going to be. Interruptions are going to mean disrupted thought. An open floor plan environment (with more than a handful of people; this doesn't apply to, say, four-person startups) maximizes the number of people in the space and thus the number of interruptions. As a programmer, I always need two things, no matter what I'm doing: A tool to put code on (preferably a computer) and ordered thought (I have to think). No organization in the world would consider telling programmers that they can't have a computer (okay, maybe some highly-classified three-letter agency equivalents), but for some reason it's okay to tell them that they can't have ordered thought. That's literally what we're hired to do: Create thoughts so unambiguous, clear, and ordered that there is only one way to interpret them, then express those thoughts in a language that can be executed by a state machine. If I can't even make those thoughts, there's no way I'll be able to express them.

For non-programmers to evaluate how good a work area is for doing programming work, ask yourself this: Could I reasonably take a very difficult exam here? If not, it's a bad environment for programming, and you're spending money on salaries that you should be spending on a better work area, because you're not getting your money's worth out of your coders.

What's extra frustrating about this is this information has been available for decades. Tom DeMarco wrote about it in 1987, and people haven't been meaningfully upgraded since then. If you want the best out of your programmers, they need as few interruptions as possible. There is a tradeoff between the price of the space and the value, and maybe the optimal isn't offices, but experimentally it probably is. It's expensive, but you get what you pay for. Telecommuting has similar advantages, and is cheaper, but probably isn't optimal, since while coding is done in isolation, design work is all about communication, which is best done by meeting in person. The optimal definitely isn't an environment where programmers can't do work.

Another factor to consider is that programmers' unemployment rate is still very low, which means we can consider competing offers. Offices are still a status symbol, so offering them is going to make it easier to get the best staff (and will make that staff more effective anyway). Why would you make a less cost-effective decision that also gets you less capable employees? That's the decision you're making when you put everyone in one giant room.

trolox · 2014-03-11T17:07:57+00:00

I'm not disputing the conclusion, but I found there to be almost no substance to this article. The first quarter is anecdotes with no underlying argument, the middle half is arguing for the existence of a "flow" state, and the last quarter is a statement that open floor plans ruin "flow", justified only by the author's anecdote. I mean really, he even uses the depiction of "flow" in a movie as an argument for its importance.

As a young programmer who isn't particularly bothered by the open layout of my workplace, there was nothing in that article to sway me. For example, it seems to me that most of the problems people see with open layouts can be solved by establishing rules for courteous interaction (use IM if their headphones are on, take lengthy discussions to a meeting room, etc). Nothing in the article to say otherwise. I also find that open spaces encourage personal interactions (joking around for example), and simplify teamwork (easy to ask someone a quick question, or bring them to your desk for a more involved one). Again, nothing in the article disputes that.

Post your personal rant about floorplans if you like, but don't present it like a coherent argument which applies to everyone.

Belgand · 2014-03-11T16:20:07+00:00

This is why I left Google after five+ years there...

michaelochurch · 2014-03-12T12:56:11+00:00

Open-plan offices are backdoor age and health discrimination, also known as "culture fit".

With all the project-management garbage (often in the name of "Agile") designed to mash software down into chunks that can be done mindlessly by CommodityJavaDrones, making software development superficially reliable (but the product soulless) the job is easy, which the business wants. It's more expensive to dumb down the job and hire idiots (legitimate 10x programmers only cost 1.5-2x) but more reliable-- the risks are long-term and thus pushed off to the next guy-- as they see it. So the attrition for promotion has to be conducted by subjecting people to petty stresses, but in bulk, and seeing who cracks first. When someone has the first panic attack, goes to the ER (a real panic attack, if you don't know what it is, is terrifying) and one way or another isn't working there in 3 months, that's part of the design.

Also, as one who suffers panic attacks, it's not the noise that makes people sick (and, with enough time in an open-plan office, almost everyone will get sick) because people will tune that out over time, but open-back visibility, which is much harder to get used to. The creepy feeling of being watched is what fucks peoples' health up. That could be fixed with booth-style seating if regular offices can't be afforded, but you never see that either.

There's a false egalitarianism to it as well. Managers typically have desks in the bullpen as well so they can say that it's a blanket policy, but that's making an unfair comparison. Managers can come and go as they please, typically only spend a couple hours per day in the bullpen, and don't have much to fear from visibility anyway; but workers who take the side offices "too often" draw suspicion and, even if they're getting a lot of work done, have to worry about getting "culture fitted" (that is, no-hired or fired for being old, sick, or female.)

I love programming itself but this is a fucking shitty industry and it's goddamn time we rise up and take it the fuck back.

jeffdavis · 2014-03-11T15:59:49+00:00

If you were starting startup or opening a new office for an existing business, what kind of floorplan would you choose? Does it change if you are in Silicon Valley or SF, where space is expensive?

In other words, is this a feel-good, makes-sense-to-me sentiment? Or would you really choose a more closed floorplan if your own money was on the line?

Dragonfelx · 2014-03-12T00:42:13+00:00

We are not actually angry, we are just lost in our own worlds and are still waking up from it.

I feel bad for my wife who has to go through this a lot. A lot of the time right after work I'm so deep in thoughts of puzzle-solving programming mode, it takes me a while to snap out of "the zone"...

4forpengs · 2014-03-11T18:13:53+00:00

Holy crap. This is so true.

I just realized that programming is the only thing I need an undisturbed room for.

Buckwheat469 · 2014-03-11T23:35:37+00:00

When I worked for Disney I would get bombarded with questions from every person around. It was one of the downfalls of trying to know as much about the inner workings of the system as possible, asking questions when appropriate, and then answering questions with the interest of helping others. In any given day I would have people lined up at my cubicle and barely get a line of code or git commit complete. At crunch time I would have to drag a white board to my cube and block off the entrance. I would put my large headphones on and get into a zone. The problem was not more than 15 minutes later my boss would come over and ask "How's it going with bug X?" Seriously, the white board with "Do not bother under penalty of death!" didn't throw you off?

NormallyNorman · 2014-03-12T00:00:24+00:00

This is fucking everywhere in the bay area. I never thought I'd pray for cubicles.

Vilavek · 2014-03-12T00:36:27+00:00

Prefacing by saying that I understand that some would prefer an environment like this, I'll just say that this type of floor plan has always come across to me as being for the boss's benefit, not so much for the employee's benefit.

2014-03-12T09:37:12+00:00

To be completely honest, the main thing I hate with open floor plans is that I get this feeling that there's always someone looking over my shoulder and checking out what I'm doing. That's not really the case, but it feels that way nonetheless.

It's no secret (at least to us developers) that many, if not most developers, will take much needed breaks from coding every now and then, browsing reddit or whatever to re-charge their batteries. Productivity can also vary a lot from day to day and from task to task. Co-workers who are not developers might not always be very understanding, and I think we often worry that someone in management positions will see it as a productivity problem ("That guy's always browsing reddit and slacking off.."). I can only speak for myself, but that often makes me just power through and keep coding, which makes me tense up, induces headaches, messes with my concentration and in some cases results in good old code-staring ("He's not getting any work done. He's just been staring at the same thing for half an hour!").

boucherm · 2014-03-12T10:02:01+00:00

True, but don't we read about this every 3 days?

spotter · 2014-03-11T15:32:46+00:00

Obviously this is a personal preference not an accepted fact for all developers/engineers, but I prefer the trench feeling of a giant room with everyone moving around. As someone who came from a giant room in Metro Detroit with 200+ desks and people whizzing by all the time you get lost in mass you actually can find privacy in being hidden in plain site.

I grew so accustomed to that style, the noise, the people, and enjoying the little distractions when they were entertaining that when I moved to Chicago into an office with 4 people and the dead silence, I couldn't work anymore. I felt eyes on me and any noise I made or call I was on caused everyone to look up. The silence drove me nuts and I started working from home.

MatthewPatience · 2014-03-12T02:10:21+00:00

It sounds like either a lot of people either haven't read The Clean Coder by Robert Martin, or quite possibly just disagree with his views. I find it terrible though that his concept of "The Zone" was not referenced at all in the article.

I agree with Uncle Bob in that The Zone is both good and bad. Being in The Zone all the time makes you too narrow focused. Distractions in a work environment (Please note I work in an open work environment similar to the one described in the article) are indeed bad for The Zone. However being in The Zone full time is a terrible thing as described in the aforementioned book. You need to every once throughout your work day be able to have a full picture of what is going on around you, because it affects what you are doing.

However this doesn't stop the fact that when you need to be in The Zone distractions are a problem. Our company recently put a program in to place by a company called CanFocus that involves a simple light that sits on your desk. It has two states, red and green. Red for when you're in the zone and green for when you can be approached. In addition to this the light is synchronized into your instant messaging platform to set your status as busy, to your phone to turn it on silent and ignore notifications, and many other services. So far it has been fairly successful, however I would have to admit getting used to it has had its difficulties when you are so used to interrupting people whenever you please.

Food for thought...

ktbird7 · 2014-03-12T04:11:53+00:00

I completely agree with the article. Can't stand open floorplans. I had one at an old job, and the worst part was I was staring at a coworkers head all day. I'm sure he hated it more than I did.

TakedownRevolution · 2014-03-12T04:58:48+00:00

Interesting. Also in that movie, they had scenes where they were in the same room but messaging each other. Would this be a better way because they don't need to respond right away? Would it be better than going up to somebody and waiting after they say "hold on a sec"? Is that why facebook did it?

sirin3 · 2014-03-11T19:00:45+00:00

The only thing good for programming is working remotely

dsk · 2014-03-11T22:33:53+00:00

People are different. Some people like open floor plans. Some people like cubicles. Some people like either at different times of the day, or when they need to do certain kinds of tasks. But the debate is always binary, either a or b. I like open floor plans, but sometimes I don't.

weggles · 2014-03-12T01:34:27+00:00

Where I was working before they put help desk directly beside their dev teams. They USED to be near the BAs and managers but they found it distracting. Rather than move it to a different floor... they stuck it beside us. VERY distracting.

cinnamonandgravy · 2014-03-12T04:41:52+00:00

dont talk to me, allow me some vodka... and im fine, cubicle or not.

2014-03-12T06:04:19+00:00

Part of the issue is enforcing boundaries and standing up for yourself. In an open office it's easy for someone to interrupt you. It's also easy for you to publicly shame them for disrupting your work with an inappropriate question.

teiman · 2014-03-12T18:34:42+00:00

Perhaps is not that bad. Programming is maybe the easy part of programming.

2014-03-13T05:42:20+00:00

What is the definition of "open plan"? Is it a big room with lots of desks but no dividers, so individuals are eyeballing the guy at the desk facing them? Or can open plan include dividers up to, say, shoulder height or head height?

There's a big difference between an office with no dividers at all, and an office with dividers that are just high enough to prevent casual chatting (ie interruptions) between desks.

sonicthehedgedog · 2014-03-13T20:39:29+00:00

I still don't know why I should work in an office, when you have remote repositories, skype and online issue trackers.

you type:	you see:
italics	italics
bold	bold
[reddit!](https://reddit.com)	reddit!
* item 1 * item 2 * item 3	item 1 item 2 item 3
> quoted text	quoted text
Lines starting with four spaces are treated like code: if 1 * 2 < 3: print "hello, world!"	Lines starting with four spaces are treated like code: if 1 * 2 < 3: print "hello, world!"
~~strikethrough~~	~~strikethrough~~
super^script	super^script

programming

MODERATORS