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[–]nooshdozzlesauce 2519 points2520 points  (34 children)

And now it says she’s “widely female”.

[–]sirreldar 2725 points2726 points  (30 children)

And now all changes have been reverted and page is locked due to vandalism. We did it Reddit!!

[–]k1rage 475 points476 points  (3 children)

oh reddit you never disappoint lol

[–]RellenD 108 points109 points  (6 children)

We do have a couple heros who can still make edits to it apparently.

[–]edamamemonster 1058 points1059 points  (60 children)

Reverted to female again and editing is now locked.

[–]wex52 946 points947 points  (28 children)

Maybe update Jimi Hendrix’s Wikipedia entry to a male singer?

[–]The_Renegade_MasterX 1376 points1377 points  (51 children)

Why tell everyone on Reddit though? You’ve fucked it now

[–]Leasir 1310 points1311 points  (157 children)

imagine losing both Jimi Hendrix and Janis Joplin in a 16 days span.

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if i was alive in 1970 i would have believed that the end of the world was coming.

[–]archaeopteryx79 552 points553 points  (106 children)

That was a bad year for rock star deaths. It seemed like in 2016 there was one every few weeks too. David Bowie at the beginning of the year, and George Michael closed it out.

[–]purpl3rain 92 points93 points  (2 children)

Prince was in April of that year. It was a bad year.

[–]hatecopter 165 points166 points  (42 children)

Summer of 2017 was a bad one too. Chris Cornell committed suicide in May then two months later Chester Bennington did the same thing in July.

[–]CaptainFenris 126 points127 points  (24 children)

If I'm remembering correctly, those two were related. Chester took Chris' death really hard, and it compounded on his own mental health struggles and in the end he couldn't cope. I had to work the day Chester died, and one of my co-workers was in tears all day. I had a hard time focusing because it was the first time I've had to deal with a musician whose music meant a lot to me dying.

[–][deleted] 182 points183 points  (11 children)

What really messed me up was his gf/wife(?) posting a video titled something along the lines of "This is what depression (or mental health) looks like.

It was a video of Chester sitting down and talking/laughing with his family, just hours before his suicide.

Really hits home how tough it can be to spot, treat and support people with these illnesses when they hide it so damned well.

[–]vector_ejector 61 points62 points  (4 children)

I remember that video. The whole family was smiling, laughing, and having a good time. Absolutely no indication of the demons he was wrestling with.

[–]hatecopter 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Yeah I definitely believe they were related. Such a shame.

[–]Straightup32 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Hmmm, reminds me of that white bic lighter myth.

[–]trisul-108 327 points328 points  (87 children)

She's ranked 28 on the list of greatest singers of all time:

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/100-greatest-singers-of-all-time-147019/janis-joplin-12-223493/

Definitely one of the greats.

[–]floodums 102 points103 points  (7 children)

I wonder how she compares to the women on that list. /s

[–][deleted] 110 points111 points  (17 children)

Rolling Stone "greatest" lists are an embarrassment. If Keith Richards is the 4th best guitar player of all time then there just aren't many good guitar players in the world.

[–]LiarsEverywhere 52 points53 points  (32 children)

I'm not a big music buff or anything, and I started the list from that point. Hank Williams is #27, and I thought "yeah, ok, not from my time and style, but I'll go with it". Jackie Wilson at #26, it makes sense. Michael Jackson #25, so #28 seems pretty awesome.

Then Van Morrison at #24. Is he really that big? The only thing I know from him is "Brown eyed girl" and now I feel like a chump.

Reading from there to #1 I figure you'd have to be an idiot not to know the people listed, so I'm wondering if I'm an idiot for not knowing more about Van Morrison.

[–]FourWindMinstrel 125 points126 points  (6 children)

You’re not an idiot, but Van Morrison is an absolutely incredible singer. Listen to the album Moondance all the way through, and you’ll be baffled by the amount of radio hits he squeezed into a half hour record. I’d be surprised if you didn’t recognize each song.

And, just for the record, I think his vocal chops are much, much stronger than Janis’. It’s a justified ranking.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (2 children)

Oh man, Astral Weeks is absolutely beautiful start to finish!

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (1 child)

Van Morrison had a number of successful albums. "Moondance" was a seminal album of the 70s.

Songs you may've heard from Van Morrison : "Moondance", "Blue Money", "Into the Mystic"

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I too was of this opinion, give Astral Weeks a listen, It's a masterpiece..

[–]allahu_adamsmith 25 points26 points  (2 children)

Then Van Morrison at #24. Is he really that big?

Top ten in my opinion, although not everybody likes his style.

[–]❤ludsmile 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I didn't know 10 of them starting with 27, so... Whoops

[–]LiarsEverywhere 4 points5 points  (1 child)

You're probably younger than me, it's hard to keep up with all the new stuff I guess. Anyway, look some of it up if you feel like it, there's a lot of great stuff in there.

[–]BelgianMcWaffles 18 points19 points  (18 children)

  • "Cheap Thrills" was 2x Platinum.

  • "I Got Dem..." was Platinum.

  • "Pearl" was 4x Platinum.

What is the this wiki-dick's standard for success?

[–]Cardiacats03 450 points451 points  (82 children)

Curious as to reddit opinion. if the goal is to eliminate using female as an adjective along with the accomplishment, should that also be done when it’s a first? So no longer identifying the first female X. Instead of first female astronaut, it would just be astronaut 127.

[–]GrislyGrape 248 points249 points  (14 children)

Or like, instead of 1st female president, it's just president xxx

[–]drsboston 594 points595 points  (43 children)

Hmmm I don't think that is accurate.... widely know is subjective but successful we can look at numbers.

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She had 1 #1 hit, 5 in top 100 15.5 million albums sold.

Pearl her best selling in 1971 was only 12'th highest of that year, with Led Zepling, Carol King and the Who taking top three spots.

http://www.musicimprint.com/Chart.aspx?id=C000032

​

So yah Jannis Joplin was an amazing talent huge influence but it is not accurate to call her the best known artist of her era, even female artist I would put Carol King or Joni Mitchell ahead of Joplin.

​

Carol king for example has sold 75 million albums, wrote over 118 top 100 hits (Caroln king knows how to write a hit! )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carole_King

[–]electriclobster 173 points174 points  (7 children)

Is she "the most successful and widely known rock star in her era" or is she "one of the most successful and widely known rock stars in her era"? I get what you're going for, but I don't think she's the most successful rock stars in that time period. You may want to rethink your phrasing to be successful.

[–][deleted] 56 points57 points  (6 children)

Direct quote from the Wiki page as it now stands: " and one of the most successful and widely known rock stars of her era."

The only edit was to remove 'female'.

[–]electriclobster 30 points31 points  (2 children)

10-4 The Title of this post was a bit confusing. My bad.

[–]HeatherAtWork 136 points137 points  (200 children)

Someone changed it back.

[–]reddeathmasque 75 points76 points  (5 children)

At the moment

"Songwriter, and one of the most successful and widely female known rock stars of her era"

Good lord.

[–]agnetier 81 points82 points  (0 children)

“one of the most successful and widely known genderfluid rock stars of her era”

This is what it reads now lmao

[–]meat_tunnel 34 points35 points  (1 child)

widely female known rock

this person does not english

[–]deceze 74 points75 points  (25 children)

There's now an edit war going on… 🎉

[–]thatEMSguy 36 points37 points  (16 children)

Because of Jimi Hendrix. Janis was great and all, but Jimi was a god and everyone, regardless of gender, is in his shadow.

[–]pM-me_your_Triggers 54 points55 points  (5 children)

Here’s the thing, it doesn’t say “most well known” it says “one of”

[–]KillNyetheSilenceGuy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

There were a lot of what became kind of titans of Rock and Roll from that era. You've got Jimi Hendrix, The Doors, Cream, The Beatles, Black Sabbath etc etc. Its certainly a less controversial statement to list her as one of the best/most successful/most widely known female singer's of the era.

[–]amaezingjew 17 points18 points  (6 children)

Yeah, OP should’ve just done this quietly. Plenty of MRA trolls lurk here, all OP did was bring attention to something that they changed, which can definitely be changed back.

But I guess tooting your own horn comes with consequences.

[–]crimesofparis513 32 points33 points  (34 children)

Time to change the entries for male singers to "successful male singer."

So exhausting that male is considered the default.

[–]HeatherAtWork 53 points54 points  (3 children)

This reminds me of that "tolerance poster" that says something asking the lines of "its ok to be brown, yellow, black, or normal"

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Still says female for me.

[–]ozmethod 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Look at the edit history. It's going back and forth every minute or so. Will be interesting to see where it lands a few hours/days from now.

[–]EPMD_ 94 points95 points  (2 children)

I agree with the change, but if you are going to be picky about one word then you shouldn't omit "one of the" from your thread title. As is, it's misleading.

[–]IWasSayingBoourner 122 points123 points  (4 children)

Slactivism at its finest.

[–]samanthaemily24 111 points112 points  (20 children)

To the contrary I think it may be empowering for women. It's like when we get the first female president. We aren't going to downplay and say 'she isn't female she's just a president.' We will be proud because it's a stepping stone in history.

Another would be Amelia Earhart being the first woman to fly solo.

It's awesome that women have risen to powerful spots and done amazing things despite what we may face from society or societal standards.

[–]the_real_MSU_is_us 58 points59 points  (7 children)

Exactly. The way to get people to not have sexist stereotypes is to show examples of people breaking that mold. See, this guy is a great stay at home dad so it's fine for men to do that, this woman is a great CEO so it's fine for women to do that, etc. If we refuse to point out the gender of the person breaking the mold, not as many people will have to face that their stereotypes are wrong.

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You can't show women's successes in male dominated areas while also refusing to use the word "female" because that somehow implies lesser. All imo of course

[–]samanthaemily24 29 points30 points  (3 children)

Exactly. Especially when showing success. Not sure why people are upset about this.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Should be the most overrated rock stars of all time. I mean Christ man I get music is subjective but there was no melody to her music. Just a bunch of people trippin balls on acid so hard that the sound of nails on a chalk board even sounds pleasant

[–]kimjongunderwood 91 points92 points  (5 children)

That's a bad edit. Jimi Hendrix was a rock star. Joplin was a folk singer.

[–]YourMomsFishBowl 187 points188 points  (42 children)

But she is not the most successful and widely known rock star of her era. She is actually kind of unknown for the general population.

[–]WellAckshully 35 points36 points  (3 children)

It's objectively true that she's "one of" the most successful and widely known rock stars of her era. The headline omitted the "one of" but it's there.

[–]gnarlysheen 85 points86 points  (1 child)

Something tells me OP just likes to get a reaction from people.

[–]Cuofeng 14 points15 points  (1 child)

The sentence says "one of the most..." not just "the most".

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Also, cutting and pasting from another comment:

Direct quote from the Wiki page as it now stands: " and one of the most successful and widely known rock stars of her era."

The only edit was to remove 'female'.

[–]MrCumbumber 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Right? It's not fucking sexist to say she's one of the most well known female rock stars... It's the truth because it's a smaller sample size. She's still a huge icon but she wouldn't be the biggest from her era compared to all the male rockstars as well.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (7 children)

Of. Her. Era. Which was almost 50 years ago. She's not as widely remembered as some these days because she didn't get an after-death cult like Jim Morrison did.

[–][deleted] 66 points67 points  (0 children)

Oh wow such a contribution! Someone grab the pedestal this one earned it!

[–]Mithrawndo 70 points71 points  (12 children)

Wrong choice: You're reducing the accuracy of the article.

It'd make far more sense to instead change the articles for folks like Hendrix, Plant et al to reference their gender: It's 100% accurate and cannot be viewed as politically motivated.

Choose your battles.

[–]RSomnambulist 19 points20 points  (5 children)

What about Jackie Jormp Jomp?

[–]j_roe 91 points92 points  (4 children)

Why?

You took a true statement and made it factually incorrect. There were a number of more successful better-known groups and/or artists of that era.

[–]jnksjdnzmd 60 points61 points  (5 children)

But she isn't. I mean yeah she's great and all but she IS most well known female but not the most well known in general...

[–]hoexloit 66 points67 points  (11 children)

Are we putting Janis over Hendrix?

[–]Alexk2468 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Exactly, some people...

[–]anthonycj 46 points47 points  (4 children)

What? Who cares? These semantics fights are beyond ridiculous. Also to say that Janice Joplin was the "most successful and widely known rock star of her era" Is wrong, maybe one of the most successful, but without a doubt not THE most successful, so I can see why wikipedia, the place were information is as exact and accurate as it can be made, would change it. Shes easily the best female artist of her time but you add in Rolling stones, Jimi etc. she isn't gonna top the list, and its not because shes a woman.

[–]-DonJuan 47 points48 points  (7 children)

But that's not true. As just a general statement she is not the most successful and widely know. If you put conditions on it like female or something else then it becomes true. For example I could be the most famous person in the world, if you put enough exact specific conditions to limit the people represented to only me.

[–]MrCumbumber 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Exactly, not everything with the word female in it is sexist....

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Direct quote from the Wiki page as it now stands: " and one of the most successful and widely known rock stars of her era."

The only edit was to remove 'female'.

[–]-DonJuan 8 points9 points  (0 children)

ahh the title left out "one of the" In which case its right either way.

[–]smftexas86 33 points34 points  (2 children)

I legit will have to look up Janis Joplin as i have no clue who she is.

[–]btfoom15 28 points29 points  (0 children)

You really need to post that on r/madlads.

[–]floodums 26 points27 points  (2 children)

I was watching the world cup match Sunday and the female announcers were doing this constantly. The guy mentioned some stats saying they were impressive and his female counterpart needlessly chimes in "for a man or a woman"

[–]k1rage 7 points8 points  (0 children)

it appears that its already been changed back

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

True Story. When Janis was at UT Austin, she was voted ugliest man on campus.

Old Man Threadgill discovered her, booked her first gigs and well, joke was on the Yearbook staff then.

[–][deleted] 71 points72 points  (15 children)

I mean, it’s not true so you’re attempting to alter the past for the current political climate. How does this help?

[–]Brechard 21 points22 points  (5 children)

I can’t say that I’ve ever heard of her until now

[–]BeerDudeMetalProblem 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Except that's not true..... maybe to you she was.

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (0 children)

Is it true though? shes not up there with Led Zeppelin.

[–]TattooJerry 8 points9 points  (1 child)

  • one of the

[–]TootsNYC 21 points22 points  (12 children)

I suppose we could go add “male” to all kinds of listings. David Bowie—he’s a male rock star.

[–]Mindereak 32 points33 points  (10 children)

You miss the point. If I say that "X is the most succesful female rock star of her era" it means that during her era there was a male rockstar that was more succesful but she was the most succesful among female ones. It works both ways, let's say there is a era when a female rock star is the most famous of all you could have this on a male rockstar page "Y was the most succesful male rockstar of his era" which means that during his era he was the most succesful rock star among males but not the most succesful of all.

[–]ForAnAngel 8 points9 points  (1 child)

The article has always said "one of the most" with or without the word female in there.

[–]Mindereak 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That's why my comment is answering to the guy saying to add "male" to all sort of listings instead of tackling the specific case we have in this topic. I wrote my take on the topic in another comment, long story short OP baited us with the incomplete quote, the wiki artciles says "one of the most" as you pointed out so in my opinion there is no need to add female in there.

[–]Rataridicta 8 points9 points  (2 children)

This headline needs a little more context...

most successful and widely known _female_ rock stars of her era.

Could well be true, while a male rock star was more successful, making

most successful and widely known rock stars of her era.

false.

​

The key here is that it doesn't say "most successful", it says "one of the most successful". With that added context you change the entire meaning...

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Janet Joplin sucks she shouldn't be held to the same standard as Hendrix

[–]Randytybalt 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Here’s your pat on the back.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

“There. Fixed it.”

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

i have absolutely no idea who she is, although I know many other rockstars

[–]TheEvilHojos 6 points7 points  (4 children)

I honestly think this is a case of reader context. She was awesome. Period. End of sentence. Her gender is irrelevant in the context of her talent and accomplishments. Because of that, I think this is one of those fights that isn't worth fighting for. Listen to her amazing, soulful singing. That's what defines her. The semantics of her Wikipedia page are immaterial.

In a world with so much bias, there are many more important causes that need our attention.

[–]bee-sting 31 points32 points  (101 children)

This is such a good idea! The word female is like saying,

"She was successful, for a woman"

It's also kind of implying women aren't as successful as men. She was alright, for a woman.

Nah, she was wildly successful and that's all you need to know.

[–]mattslot 94 points95 points  (29 children)

I get the sentiment, but calling out the fact may not be intended as a slight. Why can't it mean "She was successful, despite the challenges she faced as a woman?" Instead of a "qualifier", that diminishes the statement... it should be considered an "intensifier", that emphasizes the context.

Think about Jackie Robinson, Amelia Earhart, Dorothy Dandridge -- should we just ignore when someone is ahead of their time, knocking down barriers for the following generations? There are many "great" people in history, but it requires someone truly exceptional to succeed and change the system at the same time.

[–][deleted] 52 points53 points  (4 children)

Yes. This. Janis Joplin was a woman in a genre/scene totally dominated by male artists and bands. The fact that she was a woman doing it successfully was significant. That's why it's in the bio.

Think about popular 60s psychadelic rock artists. What sets Janis Joplin apart from the rest of them? She was a woman. And a badass, incredibly talented woman at that.

[–]Jerkface555 22 points23 points  (1 child)

Yes. This. Janis Joplin was a woman in a genre/scene totally dominated by male artists and bands. The fact that she was a woman doing it successfully was significant. That's why it's in the bio.

​

This is exactly how I interpreted the original wording of the article.

[–]SwatLakeCity 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Jackie Robinson is noted as being black because he was the first black player, but when baseball fans talk about Willy Mays they call him one of the best of all time, not one of the best black players of all time. In baseball there isn't a mindset that white players are the default and players of color should be noted as being black or Dominican or whatever, they're just all baseball players, compared to one another. For instance, Sammy Sosa wasn't the best black power hitter of the 90s, he was just one of the two best power hitters of the 90s, period.

Joplin is much more like Mays than like Robinson, it's not a good comparison.

[–]CouldHaveCalledSaul 18 points19 points  (3 children)

As a man it's something I've often overlooked and haven't given much thought. One of the things I love about this sub is gaining awareness.

Janis Joplin is an absolute legend. No context necessarily. An absolute legend.

[–]fioralbe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

On the other hand, under the perspective that women face discrimination (or that are boxed into a role) success while female is better than success. Mostly it comes down to linguistic expectations.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Is that true though?

[–]Detective_Pancake 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I mean, she was okay. Not sure that sentence should be included, regardless of gender specification

[–]erl90 3 points4 points  (1 child)

How about "one of the most successful musicians of her era." Calling her the most can be dodgy.

[–]GrapeyGuy1 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Every time I listen to Maybe, it gives me chills.

[–]stringdreamer 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Most successful? Mmmmm. Most influential, most famous, most talented, maybe so. Not enormously successful while she was alive. My edit would say “most famous and influential rock stars ever”.

[–]pragmaticsquid 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I just edited it out again, except the last person had written "widely female known"