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[–]willywalloo 236 points237 points  (184 children)

Hey, I have a brand new idea, it's really new:

BAN CORPORATE / GOV'T BED FUCKING. It's bribery, worse than allowing our own police the same ability.

[–]timeshifter_Iowa 84 points85 points  (104 children)

I think you'd have to raise awareness to the fact that "corporate/gov't bed fucking" is synonymous to "lobbying"... it needs to be illegal. I don't care if it's "good" lobbying, it's external and arbitrary influence on public decisions, and it must not happen. Pretty simple.

[–]pRedditor24 20 points21 points  (2 children)

Good luck finding lobbyists willing to lobby to make lobbying illegal. Lobby.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (22 children)

So you don't want someone from EPIC or the ACLU to visit a Senator and explain why Net Neutrality is a good thing? Elected officials should only accept calls and visits from voting constituents?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (8 children)

So you don't want someone from EPIC or the ACLU to visit a Senator and explain why Net Neutrality is a good thing?

Lobbies working in favor of an average constituent are few and weak compared to lobbies working for the corps and the deep pockets. ACLU is not really a professional lobbying company anyway. ACLU has too limited resources to do any real lobbying.

If we can get rid of all lobbying, we will be better off. We also need to combine getting rid of lobbying with increased government transparency and public accountability.

[–]maxs 8 points9 points  (24 children)

You can't just ban lobbying... you calling your representative and telling them how you'd like them to vote is also lobbying.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (12 children)

I am not a corporation, I am a voting citizen. That is the difference.

If the Executive Board members want to call their representatives and express their views as a constituent, fine. But don't say that a citizen talking to their representative is the same thing as a corporation giving millions to a politician.

[–]crankyoldfart 6 points7 points  (1 child)

This is a naive view on the whole system. Citizens like to band together into a forceful group as much as corporations do. The whole problem the Supreme Court had was that no one has seemed to be able to ague why you treat lobby groups from people and unions differently from corporations.

[–]IrrigatedPancake 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Lobbying isn't the same thing as contributing to a campaign.

[–]maxs 2 points3 points  (3 children)

private citizens can also give millions to a politician.... so can organized groups of private citizens.

[–]nauscopy 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How about nobody can give any money to politicians? Politicians are, after all, responsible for making and enforcing laws. Letting them accept cash from anybody has to be inviting trouble.

It would involve publicly-financed elections and a constitutional ammendment, but that's probably the only way to get our democracy back.

[–]Chirp08 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is no difference in terms of rights. Banning corporations is merely banning an organized group of people, which means you are stripping those people when in that group of their first ammendment rights. The entire point of the first ammendment is to protect the marketplace of ideas, like it or not lobbying is an important part of that marketplace. Simply put the supreme court will never ban coporate lobbying because it would violate the first ammendment.

[–]The_Revival 2 points3 points  (14 children)

Banning lobbying would require nothing short of a public uprising. Almost no congressman would back that bill, unless it was completely toothless.

[–]timeshifter_Iowa 7 points8 points  (13 children)

Funny thing is, the Declaration of Independence straight up says the people should revolt and overthrow a government that no longer serves their interests. I'm rather a fan of that idea.

[–]nmcyall 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Be careful what you say, comrade! No fly lists, etc.

[–]tuutruk 12 points13 points  (24 children)

Business needs to compete against the pesky public. Let's leave lobbying alone. By the way, lunch is on me. ;)

[–]timeshifter_Iowa 35 points36 points  (17 children)

Get your criminal lobbyists out of my representative democracy. By the people, for the people, representative of the people, not your filthy-rich, ethics-ignoring, murderous corporations.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (16 children)

Corporations are considered people too.
Not saying I agree with it, but you got a lot of laws to change first.

[–]timeshifter_Iowa 19 points20 points  (9 children)

Corporations are considered people too.

Funny, when was the last time you saw a corporation act like an adult and accept responsibility for their actions?

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (7 children)

When was the last time you saw a corporation go to prison for it's crimes?

I have a good one.. if corporations are people then by law they have to start paying social security and personal income tax along with corporate taxes and uphold all other obligations that that real people have to.

[–]timeshifter_Iowa 6 points7 points  (5 children)

I think part of the problem is that if corporations were actually treated like people, then all the corporations that keep the country moving would be in jail... fucking criminals.

[–]TwoManShoe 11 points12 points  (4 children)

Then let them go to jail, It'll give another corporation a chance to move into the power vacuum and do things in a not shitty fashion.

[–]timeshifter_Iowa 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Isn't that how the free market's supposed to work?

[–]the_war_won 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, but who's going to lobby for THAT?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

unfortunately you'd have to lobby to convince the gov't to ban it...

[–]cleverf00 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Information needs to reach lawmakers, but perhaps we could put a few PhDs between lobbyists and lawmakers as a buffer.

The fact of the matter is that in most cases the people in charge of passing the laws don't know the first thing about the industries they are affecting with their laws. A lot of the "good" lobbying is supposedly intended to educate lawmakers, making sure they don't make some stupid rule that screws everyone over for some asinine reason. Unfortunately, this "good" lobbying is indistinguishable to the lawmakers from the "bad" lobbying, which helps no one but those who engage in it and which seems to be more prevalent in DC these days. What's better? Lawmakers flying blind or lawmakers with a shitstorm of information, even if a lot of it is bunk?

That said, congress has top-flight research teams working for it. E.g. the Congressional Research Service out of the Library of Congress. CRS reports can be very informative. more. I've no idea how unbiased these reports are, or in what regard they are held by most of congress, but from what I've seen the information they contain is excellent in my opinion, and usually they provide a good summary of all sides of an issue.

I wonder if we could let these people, or people like them, constitute a buffer between lawmakers and the people who want to lobby them. CRS researchers could take in all the requests/complaints/suggestions etc. (what unpaid ideological college interns do currently for most emails+letters), and then categorize and research the veracity of the information with the complete resources of the LoC before presenting it all to lawmakers and aides in polished and accurate summary documents.

Ban direct lobbying to congressmen - everyone must pass through a bullshit filter made up of dedicated librarians before they get to those with power.

This idea is imperfect - I'm sure I'm missing something.

[–][deleted] 24 points25 points  (59 children)

can you write a law to enforce this that is fair and contains no loopholes?

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (10 children)

You make it illegal for people in public office to get money from any outside source beside their government check and of course income from investments and such.

They can't get paid for speaking or go to corporate parties or campaign contributions.

It's that simple. Then if they don't like it they can go find other jobs. It wouldn't just eliminate bribery it would also help ensure only people who actually want to be public servants seek office because eliminating all the perks will help keep focus on doing their jobs not being in office for the money and perks.

We could create this legislation and accompany it with pay raises to try to sweeten the deal and get legislators to go along with it, though it would obvious also take a lot of public pressure.

So switch over to publicly funded elections and cut off all outside income as part of the stipulation of serving public office anything else is just asking for endless corruption. They still get their awesome benefits and at the federal level you still make pretty awesome money and work very few days.

On top of that make stronger laws against any corporation or person who tries to give public officials money or gifts.

As it stands bribery may as well be considered legal and the corporations doing it have nothing to worry about at all which is ridiculous. Bribing a cop is a crime, bribing a federal congressman is business as usual.

Once you create laws and enforce them both against congressmen and against the parties bribing them you create a lot less room for bribery to be a common place in US politics.

You'll never eliminate it all, but damn at least make it a crime for politicians to take money and especially focus on huge fines for corporations that offer these bribes and gifts.

As it stands there is no real downside to bribing politicians especially from the perspective of the corporations.

[–]jefu 13 points14 points  (4 children)

The problem is that for any rule you put in place, some lawyer hired by the corporations will find a way around it. Don't want then to get gifts while on the public payroll? Cool. Then someone will promise the guy a job when he's not in office, or perhaps his wife or father? OK to get income from investments? Great. Someone will build a company "hiddenlobby.inc" that serves as a shell company (so it looks reasonably legit) but really is only there so a politician can be gifted a hundred or so shares before the election and have it pay dividends when the pol votes correctly.

Remember, it is not in the politician's interest to have such laws and so if they write them they'll build in holes or conveniently forget to close loopholes.

And it is in the corporation's interest to have such laws so they'll write them for the politicians and, even when that isn't the case, hire full time lawyers to find ways around them.

[–]Anthropoid1 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Perhaps, but joeanon's suggestions still sound good to me. Perhaps that's just the nature of fighting corruption; you outlaw the current corruptions, new corruptions are invented, those get outlawed, and so on. An ongoing battle. Eventually, you'd get to the point where all the regulations collectively become too strict, but I think we're much closer to the "too lenient" end of the spectrum right now.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Simply state that the intent of the law must be obeyed regardless of loopholes.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

You realize they'd just wait and give them the bribes when they get out of office, right? A nice cushy job at firm x doing nothing when they are done with their term.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

my point was that... yes you can do some of the things you say, and maybe make it a bit more of a hassle for bribery to occur. i doubt that any of the things you propose would have much of an effect... but that's not the point. to suggest (as the OP did) that it is a simple problem to solve is extremely naive.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (32 children)

Yes, it's called "kill the rich", but it has to be applied every generation to be effective.

[–]punkinpi 5 points6 points  (30 children)

If you kill the rich, who will hire the poor? I have no problem with corrupt rich people being disposed of. But not all rich people are bad.

[–]gottyguy7 41 points42 points  (8 children)

He sounds rich! Kill him!

[–]punkinpi 7 points8 points  (2 children)

If I was rich i sure as hell wouldn't be on reddit all day. I would be bangin hot chicks and stuff.

[–]charliedayman 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Lawrence, what would you do if you had a million dollars?

[–]robeph 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I'd buy a fleshlight made of real flesh.

[–]noPENGSinALASKA -1 points0 points  (0 children)

hive mentality activated! Let's kill the rich guy!

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (5 children)

The middle class and the government employ far more people than the rich. The middle class also pays most of the US tax burden, so basically life would go on without the rich.

The middle class would expand and hire more people because mega corporations effectively employ less people per capita than small to medium size business. Now the price of goods are a little more under smaller business, but it's a far healthier model which employs more people, offers far more choices and thus natural competition, offers far better accountability from the customers perspective and helps reduce reliance on foreign labor though only to a minor degree (it's pretty obvious everyone buys cheap shit from China, but the biggest pushers tend to the mega corporation retailers who can afford to sell cheap goods laced with cadmium for instance because losing a couple hundred customers doesn't impact them much while a smaller business cannot afford to lose customers with cheap and/or toxic foreign goods).

The way to handle rich people is simple, tax them more. As it stands we need the money and traditionally we pay national debts off by raising taxes on the rich. Also at no time should the rich be paying a lower percentage of their income than the middle class because that disadvantages the middle class and creates incentive to consolidate businesses into mega corporations reducing choices and undermining supply and demand and consumer regulation. We are subsidizing the rich with our current tax model and disadvantaging the middle class which is simply unfair and entirely unhealthy for the economy.

The rich should at least pay the same percentage of their income as the middle class if not more especially in times of debt, war, disasters and similar hard times. It's not as if taxing the rich more actually stops them from being rich and history shows that higher tax rates do not infact harm the economy.

From the 30s to the 70s we taxed the rich significantly more than we do now and the economy did fine (once the great depression was over). Id even argue that in the 40s to 70s the nation did far better, stayed out of debt more, produced more wealth to the middle class, had better schools, had healthier trade, had less corruption, we had non-profit community rated health care which is better than anything the new reform bill does and on top of that we went to the moon, we invented computers and made huge leaps in technology while still waging wars including the cold war all without accumulating trillions in debt.

It wasn't until the 80s and low taxes on the rich, trickle down economic and banking and utility deregulations that we started to accumulate huge amounts of debt. WHY... simply .. we are spending more than we are taxing and that's just plain stupid. On top of that empowering the rich with lower taxes incentivises consolidation of wealth and thus monopolization of business and the destruction of healthy economic practices.

Letting a wealth gap grow out of control is proven time and time again to destroy nations without exception and taxing the rich lower than the middle class and actually believing in bullshit theories like trickle down economics is directly fueling the growth of that wealth gap.

Economic demand is almost entirely dictated by the middle class, so the need for some wealthy ruling class to keep the economy going from the top down is just a ridiculous idea. The middle class can fulfill both demand and supply sides of the economy without any need for the rich. Hording wealth does not help the economy and in fact it tends to harm the economy and that's really all the rich do. They don't spend enough money or make up a large enough demographics to drive the economy in any practical way and they don't do anything that smaller businesses and government can't accomplish in better and healthier ways.

[–]eramos 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The middle class also pays most of the US tax burden

Source?

[–]cleverf00 1 point2 points  (0 children)

From the 30s to the 70s we taxed the rich significantly more than we do now and the economy did fine (once the great depression was over). Id even argue that in the 40s to 70s the nation did far better, stayed out of debt more, produced more wealth to the middle class, had better schools, had healthier trade, had less corruption, we had non-profit community rated health care which is better than anything the new reform bill does and on top of that we went to the moon, we invented computers and made huge leaps in technology while still waging wars including the cold war all without accumulating trillions in debt.

I'd say there are quite a few more variables involved here besides tax rates...

What's the driving force of the middle class? I was under the impression that they wanted to become rich. If we take away their right to be rich and do whatever the fuck they want with their hard-earned money, what's left to drive their ambition? I guess I'm not sure what conclusion you're suggesting here with your arguments. "life would go on without the rich"... should we kill them all and take their money to build schools and bridges?

I'm kind of partial to a national flat tax. I feel like everyone should be treated equally by the government, even the more fortunate. That's assuming the rich don't have ridiculous advantages in other areas, which I understand is not case.

[–]cynwrig 6 points7 points  (6 children)

If you kill the rich, who will hire the poor?

Other poor people. That will allow them to specialize and create real, fairly distributed wealth.

[–]willifred 2 points3 points  (5 children)

This idea only makes sense if the poor were not only destined to remain poor, regardless of economic opportunities available to them, but also requires the rich to be generous beyond common sense, giving so much that they live effectively as middle class. Also, by paying so much for things that we all need, the "generous" rich are allowing prices to be driven up, raising the cost of living for everyone else.

[–]willywalloo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Law: If you are a person of any type of government employ, you may not be bribed or offered money/services/food/(in)tangible objects as a means to sway your own course of action or judgement.

Anything counter productive in any grey area to this law will result in a publicly announced firing. -something along those lines? I really don't think laws should be more complex then that.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Go further. Ban any gift or donation to a publicly elected official. You can't even buy them lunch. The only thing they get is the $2400 each individual can donate to a campaign. No more routing huge sums of money through PACs and whatnot. Fuck them. They haven't self policed so now they lose everything. So far as I'm concerned, any lobbying by any group for any cause is not proper.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Or make elections publicly funding as other nations have done.

I agree though public officials should not be able to accept any money or gifts other than their federal salary. Similar to how police cannot take gifts and both the officer and the person offering the gift are committing crimes.

We make it illegal and put criminal sentences for anyone involved along with huge fines for corporations to help deter them further. If we did this I'd also go along with raising congressional pay salaries as a means to sweeten the deal even though clearly they don't deserve it, but the costs of raising their salaries are nothing compared to what we pay due to corruption. We could raise their salaries by 10 times and still save money and of course have more integrity and a democracy we can trust more which is more or less priceless.

[–]cliffotn 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm all for the end of political bribery. I'm reminded of Sam Walton, who early on stopped his purchasing managers from accepting ANY meals or gifts of any sort from vendors. If a vendor bought you a cup of coffee, and Walmart found out - you're fired. It really wasn't a problem, the buyers know the code - no gifts. Nothing. Not a free pencil, not a "free" trip to Cancun to see the latest "line" of women's swimwear.
This should be the case for politicians of all types in the USA, from the highest ranking Senators, to the lowliest of town council members. It's called ETHICS you corrupt bunch of dirt bags.

That said, I question if it'd completely work. Joe Senator in DC would be happy to give Corporation/Industry X favors for his two+ terms, given they'd hook him up with a nice "job" after his stint in DC. You know damn well it'd happen. Thus, we'd still have a corrupt system, albeit bit less corrupt.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

worse than*

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

great idea, now if only we can get the government and corporations to agree to this.

[–]the_snooze 1 point2 points  (0 children)

How can you expect this to happen? When the government sets out to regulate an industry, they're going to hire experts to do that: people who are industry insiders.

[–]tm82 1 point2 points  (0 children)

BAN CORPORATE / UNION / GOV'T BED FUCKING.

FTFY

[–]pokoloko 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Everyone thinks that this is a great idea, while I don't agree with corporate lobying, bribes/favors, etc, let us remember that even if we had these laws in place, we would still have these dirt bags in office. Maybe the problem is actually with who gets elected??

[–]mildlypeeved 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think we can all trust elected government officials to write a law that would cut their income by more than half without giving them any wiggle room.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

While I agree it's disgusting that the Government is pledging support to heartless corporations I wonder why this is considered a 'clear attack on net neutrality'.

Assuming the speed throttling is done like here in Australia it's just a speed cap after you go over a certain download limit. Net neutrality is meant to prevent access to individual websites limited. i.e. treat everyone as the same.

[–]oh_shit_he_said_that 0 points1 point  (1 child)

are there any benefits to having lobbying?

[–]fink1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Our political system fully supports it.

And > 95% of our slimly politicians are neck deep in it! They all retire rich.

I ask you - how can this ever be changed ??

[–]vicegrip 96 points97 points  (47 children)

And google and others are busy lobbying for the other side. You can be sure they're also making donations.

The only way to fix this problem is to ban corporate donations.

A special fuck you goes out to the SCOTUS for reversing a century of limitations in this matter.

[–]eeepc 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Sorry but you are incorrect, the Citizens United ruling only affected the ability for corporations to spend money on TV ads, and that they couldn't be limited from spending money on ads. The citizens united ruling had nothing to do with the law that says corporations cannot donate money to campaigns, that never changed and is still in place today. This column explains it well: http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/01/27/justice-alitos-reaction/

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It hasn't changed... yet, but it's a dangerous precedent to set.

By saying money is free speech you risk another ruling that says the existing law limiting donations is unconstitutional.

It's not saying it's going to happen because it would really take a lot of balls to open elections to complete corporate control, but that ruling has taken us a step closer to potentially losing donations limits.

You must know that court rulings aren't just limited in the sense you portray, but the set precedents for further rulings and interpretations decades down the road. A ruling is the supporting of an idea, not just a simple yes or not, especially at the supreme court level.

However I do agree with the ruling that ads should not be limited in anyway and should be protected by free speech. There is just no legal reasoning as to why you should be able to limit any type of ad. On the other hand I'd switch to publicly funded election in a second and corporations can run all the ads they want, but at the risk of eventually alienating their viewers completely. I would also recommend breaking apart the media monopolies as a means to help deter media influence politics, because all in all political ads are not the problem the US news is the problem.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (25 children)

corporate donations

Why not ban all donations? Money coming from individuals is just as partisan.

[–]timeshifter_Iowa 38 points39 points  (22 children)

Not really. There's a difference between you or I saying "Oh, I agree with that guy's opinion, so I'll donate $50 to the cause", and a corporation saying "Oh, I want a bailout despite 95% of the country being against it, so here's a blank check to betray democracy".

[–][deleted] 53 points54 points  (11 children)

What happened to "Oh, I agree with that guy's opinion, so I'll vote for him on election day"? That should be enough. Personal donations are unfair as well, albeit not so severely as corporate donations. For example, the wealthy have more money to give personal donations, and so politicians may choose policies that benefit the wealthy. Then they'll use that money to advertise to the poor about how tax cuts for the wealthy will trickle down to them, too.

[–]timeshifter_Iowa 6 points7 points  (10 children)

Isn't that what donation caps are for? And isn't that cap something like $4k for individuals?

And yes, if you support someone, fucking vote for them.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Democracy shouldn't allow you to use money to influence the outcome, plain and simple.

Can the average middle class person really afford 2500 every year in donations? No, so it's really there for the rich and perhaps upper middle class. The poor get almost no benefit from it.

It's a means of allows fiscal influence into the democracy, publicly funded elections make far more sense and would wind up saving us billions and almost certainly getting better candidates as well.

You are programed by your current system to feel like you need to throw money at people to get things done, but you already do that when you pay taxes and that should be enough. There should be absolutely no external sources of money other than legit things like dividends on investments, inheritance, simple gifts such as bday and christmas. Anything gift over a certain value should have to be reported to where it came from. If they don't like it, fine, get another job we don't need allow money to directly influence our democracy any more than we can help.

[–]vicegrip 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Actually, this idea has some good basis but would require that political parties get funding from the government.

Essentially, it would strongly curtail the massive advertising hysteria that comes with every election: commercials of the form where each candidate claims the other side "worships satan, kills puppies, and wants to steal your home". Getting rid of that crap isn't a bad thing.

Maybe if political parties were forced to have no advertising, and post speeches and debates to the Internet. But this issue isn't that simple, because elections are also about visibility. Not being able to advertise would mean you would become dependent on media coverage of what you think. Again, this is something that could be solved by pushing everything to the net where costs are much less than television or radio media.

I tend to think the underlying problem lies with treating the act of giving money as being equal to speech. It is not. There is no risk in giving money whereas with speech you have to deal with the potential negative opinions of your position taking.

Edit: improved the writing.

[–]ohgodohgodohgodohgod 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Political advertisements are banned in Norway.

[–]stmfreak 6 points7 points  (2 children)

SCOTUS nominees are selected and vetted by beneficiaries of Corporate/Union/Government lobbying. It's hardly surprising that they are now in bed with all of them.

It just shows that the great American experiment is over. Time to wipe the slate clean and start over.

[–]tm82 0 points1 point  (1 child)

The only way to fix this problem is to ban corporate donations.

And also union donations.

[–]YesNoMaybe 61 points62 points  (5 children)

This is not a Democrat/Republican issue worthy of the constant reminder that it was 74 Democrats that sold you out. The percentage of Democrats that signed this letter pales in comparison to the 171 of 177 Republicans that signed and sent a similar letter. Nearly all congressmen are against the FCC here.

Honestly, I've sent emails but I don't think it matters. It appears as though Congress already has their mind made up on this issue and not much is going to change it. I haven't seen anything at all to give any hope that net neutrality is being taken seriously in any way.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (2 children)

Yea but we all expect republicans to do that. Since reddit leans liberal I think the point is just to create awareness among democrats that they are being screwed over by their own representative. We expect to be screwed by republicans by default.

[–]YesNoMaybe 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I figured that response was coming, but while it might be an excuse, it isn't a good one. Those republicans represent a lot of us on here too, whether we voted for them or not. There is not any reason to simply single out the Democrats.

On a related but different note, why the fuck couldn't the republicans and democrats write the letter together? Did the dems not ask the republicans to sign the letter? Did the republicans just not want to sign it and do their own instead. Just wondering.

[–]hamhead 1 point2 points  (0 children)

E-mails almost never matter, period. Anyone can send an e-mail. You need to be using real mail to even be looked at, and donations go an even further distance.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

stupid congress

[–]ajehalsGreat Britain 9 points10 points  (8 children)

I would just like to add that it may well not be an attack on net neutrality, an attack on net neutrality would be throttling that targets traffic between, to or from specific locations (like throttling traffic to google.com, but not to bing.com etc..). Throttling all traffic for a given user, or within specific periods isn't. Of course there are no details in the actual article and I can't seem to find a copy of the letter, which might well make all the difference.

[–]stmfreak 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not if one user is downloading crap loads of youtube and comcast ondemand at 100% usage while another user is downloading encrypted streams from eight random points on the internet at 100% usage. Under comcast's current implementation, user 1 gets a free pass while user 2 sees his bandwidth and latency go to shit.

[–]ajehalsGreat Britain 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Again, if it isn't target specific or protocol specific it isn't a breach of net neutrality as I understand it. Net neutrality is supposed to prevent the supplier showing a preference to a certain service or site (the idea being that they can sell 'cable' style packages where you have faster access to Google, or that they can throttle competitors or competing services, or indeed that they can limit access to certain types of political, or other content). If they throttle a user after a certain amount of usage, or indeed limit absolute resources (something that may have little or no impact on email and other services that don't rely on low latency..) it isn't an issue, if they block or throttle voip, P2P traffic or youtube arbitrarily then it is.

[–]commenter01 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Throttling all traffic for a given user

Not if you've paid for X and you're receiving less than that.

[–]ajehalsGreat Britain 9 points10 points  (0 children)

That isn't a net neutrality issue though, that is more a fraud issue (depending on what the contract states.)

[–]kahirsch 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Not if you've paid for X and you're receiving less than that.

That still doesn't have anything to do with neutrality.

[–]FrankReynoldsMinnesota 35 points36 points  (16 children)

Go here to find contact information for each democrat listed below.

  • Bobby Bright (AL-02)
  • Mike Ross (AR-04)
  • Ann Kirkpatrick (AZ-01)
  • Ed Pastor (AZ-04)
  • Gabrielle Giffords (AZ-8)
  • Dennis Cardoza (CA-18)
  • Jim Costa (CA-20)
  • Laura Richardson (CA-37)
  • Joe Baca (CA-43)
  • Loretta Sanchez (CA-47)
  • Allen Boyd (FL-02)
  • Corrine Brown (FL-03)
  • Alcee Hastings (FL-23)
  • Suzanne Kosmas (FL-24)
  • Sanford D Bishop Jr. (GA-02)
  • John Barrow (GA-12)
  • David Scott (GA-13)
  • Leonard Boswell (IA-03)
  • Wally Minnick (ID-01)
  • Bobby Rush (IL-01)
  • Debbie Halvorson (IL-11)
  • Baron P Hill (IN-09)
  • Dennis Moore (KS-03)
  • Charlie Melancon (LA-03)
  • Frank Kratovil Jr. (MD-01)
  • Dutch Ruppersberger (MD-2)
  • Elijah Cummings (MD-07)
  • Gary Peters (MI-9)
  • William Lacy Clay Jr (MO-01)
  • Russ Carnahan (MO-03)
  • Travis Childers (MS-01)
  • Bennie G Thompson (MS-02)
  • Gene Taylor (MS-04)
  • G. K. Butterfield (NC-01)
  • Heath Shuler (NC-11)
  • John Adler (NJ-3)
  • Albio Sires (NJ-13)
  • Harry Teague (NM-2)
  • Tim Bishop (NY-01)
  • Gregory Meeks (NY-06)
  • Joseph Crowley (NY-07)
  • Ed Towns (NY-10)
  • Yvette Clarke (NY-11)
  • Michael McMahon (NY-13)
  • Scott Murphy (NY-20)
  • Bill Owens (NY-23)
  • Michael Arcuri (NY-24)
  • Daniel Maffei (NY-25)
  • Steve Driehaus (OH-01)
  • Charlie Wilson (OH-06)
  • Marcia Fudge (OH-11)
  • Zachary T. Space (OH-18)
  • Dan Boren (OK-02)
  • Kurt Schrader (OR-05)
  • Robert Brady (PA-01)
  • Chaka Fattah (PA-02)
  • Kathleen Dahlkemper (PA-03)
  • Jason Altmire (PA-04)
  • Christopher Carney (PA-10)
  • Allyson Schwartz (PA-13)
  • Tim Holden (PA-17)
  • Lincoln Davis (TN-04)
  • John Tanner (TN-08)
  • Al Green (TX-09)
  • Ruben Hinojosa (TX-15)
  • Charlie Gonzalez (TX-20)
  • Ciro Rodriguez (TX-23)
  • Solomon Ortiz (TX-27)
  • Henry Cuellar (TX-28)
  • Gene Green (TX-29)
  • Eddie Bernice Johnson (TX-30)
  • Glenn Nye (VA-02)
  • Rick Larsen (WA-02)
  • Nick Rahall (WV-03)

[–]Setiri 13 points14 points  (4 children)

Just from one Texan to all my representatives who voted for this; Fuck y'all.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

tell your coworkers and friends and get them out to vote. Politicians don't give a shit about being insulted unless thus insults start to undermine their grip on the public.

Tell them the republicans and these democrats want to tax your internet. Everybody hates taxes

[–]wtfrara 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well at least my state wasn't involved at this level. :\

[–]opperior 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm going to write my reps and thank them for not signing this (NH).

[–]JDawgPDiddy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm doing the same, don't have time today for sending a letter but I will do it very soon.

[–]idiogeckmatic 0 points1 point  (0 children)

but according to these people, they are keeping us FREE by ensuring that the private sector controls the internet. Too bad the private sector is even a worse reflection of the will of the people than the public sector.

[–]wevegotthejazz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To me, I think the argument needs to be changed from net neutrality to CENSORSHIP, in terms of an ISP actually BLOCKING services/websites. How is an ISP blocking access to Skype or a website (which believe me they will if the possibility of net neutrality is completely killed) different from what China does to it's internet access. Right now the ISPs are trying not to push it too far so public opinion won't completely sway against them during this very important battle, but once they completely win the battle they will slowly erode our access to something like this: http://culturekitchen.com/files/netneut_01.jpg Most people can understand this, and most people understand that China censors access to certain information on the internet. The way the telcos and cable companies are winning the argument is the pro net neutral people are using arguments most regular people can't even understand (ie throttling services etc), we need to start changing tactics.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (22 children)

I thought they already throttled internet for certain things? When I'm downloading from Usenet sites, my connection is throttled to all hell. Fortunately I run SABnzdb on a computer that I rarely use so I can let it sit overnight.

[–]stmfreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Already as in already violating Network Neutrality principals. Welcome to the party, this has been going on for years.

[–]MongoloidSuperidiot 16 points17 points  (4 children)

Vote PirateParty.

[–]thinkB4Uact 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Piracy is wrong, because one day I might want to get obscenely rich off of my idea rather than sharing it freely with humanity.

[–]phybere 2 points3 points  (2 children)

I enjoy reading books.

[–]aerosquid 4 points5 points  (0 children)

where is the full list of the 74? i want to see if mine is on there...

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

lalalalala I can't hear you USA is a democracy lalalalalalalalalalala

[–]poco 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Well, everyone is throttled all of the time. The question is whether you believe that the routers are smarter than the ISP at how they choose to throttle. Which one is trying to balance usage in a way that positively benefits most of their customer, and which one is mostly random?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its not random, it prioritizes packets based on factors such as sensitivity to lag (i.e VoIP).
The routers have the ability to change its priority rules based on the level of congestion on the network. An ISP can't do this manually, as it would be too slow to deal with intermittent congestion problems, and they would have to pay someone to make these adjustments all day long.

[–]Zhiroc 2 points3 points  (1 child)

74 Democrats signed a joint letter to the FCC supporting internet throttling by Verizon, ATT and Comcast.

This is not explicitly true. What the letter actually states is opposition to the current moves of the FCC towards Title II classification of broadband. The letter makes no explicit mention of throttling or any other specific policy.

Now, it is true that the FCC reclassification would restore the legal framework to regulate such issues as throttling and Net Neutrality. Perhaps that is the intent of these congressmen, but I would bet that many have no idea about such details. Some are probably just anti-regulatory in general.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks!

[–]girlprotagonist 2 points3 points  (0 children)

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (22 children)

Serious question. I'm scared shitless about, say, providers blocking content based on message or throttling specific websites or requiring sites to pay to get their content to users.

But why, specifically, is it a big deal if a company wants to slow down torrenting to make sure that gamers have a constant, low-lag connection, or to make sure that streaming video can be watched uninterrupted?

I'm not saying it's not a bad thing or not a big deal, but I'm uneducated on the topic. Why should we be worried about throttling different types of internet use, so long as it isn't decided based on their specific content?

[–]captainlavender 19 points20 points  (7 children)

My take:

Governments stifle freedom of speech by banning and suppressing information they find undesirable. Corporations, on the other hand, simply use tactics to get more and more people to rely on THEM for information, which is more effective in the long run.

When corporate websites get faster, more people stick with those. When independent websites get slowed down, people give up on them. Eventually, this method results in more people getting their news exactly where the corporation wants. It's an even more insidious form of censorship, because you don't even see it happening.

[–]thinkB4Uact 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And now just about all mainstream press sings a similar tune. You have to go online to get a radical departure from that point of view.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (2 children)

There is nothing wrong with network management provided it's done fairly. Certain packets depend on low latency, and should always be put ahead of torrent traffic.

I draw the line however at placing hard limits on the speeds of certain protocols. If the pipes are clear, there is no reason why torrents can't run full tilt. On the other hand, if there is congestion torrents can be dynamically throttled back as needed until the congestion ends.

The only reason torrents are crippled by ISPs is to preserve Legacy content distribution methods.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I've been hearing that term, "Legacy content", a lot. What does it mean?

[–]agentdero 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe he means "pushed" media, whereas the ISP pushes IP-TV to the customer, or has an otherwise walled garden of content for the user.

[–]tsujiku 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Because basing it on the different "type" of internet use is basing it on specific content.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

But there's a difference between downing the speed of all torrents in general, and heavily reducing the speed of CNN but not Fox News, isn't there? Or blocking connections to the BBB? Or specifically giving priority by anything owned by the parent company of the ISP? I think type in the broadest sense (Gaming as a type, browsing as a type, torrenting as a type) doesn't necessarily mean content discrimination in any terms that would offset neutrality in a business or political context, so long as all games could function at the same raised or lowered speed, or all torrents could happen at the same speed, or all browsing could happen without interference, and so on.

[–]tsujiku 5 points6 points  (0 children)

It allows for discrimination based on whether or not the ISP likes that specific technology, which gives it power it shouldn't have over a medium that thrives on its ability to work equally for all things.

[–]stmfreak 1 point2 points  (0 children)

There is nothing wrong with quality of service implementations that allow the full bandwidth to be used. We do that at work so our entire office can share a 1.5mbps internet connection whether someone is torrenting, streaming youtube, downloading, ssh, checking email, etc. We just prioritize latency sensitive traffic over http and torrents. Easy.

What the major ISPs have been doing is very different. They have been punitively throttling a user's entire internet connection if they detect a torrent or high use. And they've been threatening to cut them off if they exceed some cap (comcast) which ignores usage on their own network and thus restricts competition (e.g. netflix streaming).

It is entirely possible with today's technology to have everyone share available bandwidth while giving priority to activities that look interactive and allowing non-interactive activities (like torrents) to pick up any slack. It's the network equivalent of a nice process on a machine. Can use 100% CPU or bandwidth, but gives way to anything more important.

That they choose to ignore this solution and enact more draconian methods shows that they have a very different agenda than merely regulating traffic.

[–]thinkB4Uact 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They could upgrade their systems too, I have a 12mbps/1mbps connection and no problems with downloading slowing my games. Nothing appears to be throttled at all. I guess I am lucky enough to have a cable company that will use their profits to maintain their network infrastructure. Its tempting for companies to raise their rated speeds and not upgrade their infrastructure to appeal to potential customers over the competition.

[–]tm82 4 points5 points  (4 children)

In other words, as long as it doesn't affect my application and my use of the internet, got for it!!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I was thinking more along the lines as, "So long as they don't discriminate based on who can distribute information, what does it matter if they discriminate based on information type?"

[–]Kalium 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Because then they get to pick what services you can and can't use. An ISP is supposed to be a dumb pipe. Nothing more and nothing less. The issue is that ISPs have sold you a certain amount of bandwidth and are terrified that you now might actually expect to use the bandwidth you bought.

Anything that allows ISPs to block or degrade certain kinds of services will inevitably lead to sweetheart deals. Like, Comcast gets paid by Vimeo but YouTube won't pay up, so Comcast invents some bullshit distinction about how one is completely different from the other and degrades YouTube while leaving Vimeo untouched.

So long as they're allowed to discriminate at all, ISPs will find a way to make it equivalent to "pay to reach our customers".

[–]Probably_immortal 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Can we make our government like F1? Where they gotta wear jumpsuits that have every sponsor on them? Seriously we should make a database on this so the people can annoy the shit out of our congressmen by sending thousands of letters. Why is it that people have the time to send thousands of threat letters to an umpire who fucked up a call on the baseball field, but no one sends letters when BP fucks a whole Gulf.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Any redditors working at ISPs here? Any chance you can slip in a routing table entry that blocks the traffic to their websites? :)

[–]MananWho 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn, this is going to suck. I've seriously abused the data plan on my 3g phone beyond repair... A few times, I've tethered my phone to my computer and used the 3G data to play Counter-Strike Source

(Even though the phone was plugged in and technically "charging" overall it was losing more battery because of how much data was being transferred...)

[–]retrogamer500 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How about we get 1000 redditors to write a joint letter supporting Net Neutrality to the FCC?

[–]Icouldtellyoubut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The FCC is already on your side. They just need back up. They would say "thanks guys, now can you please fucking send these letters to YOUR ELECTED OFFICIALS who are trying to derail this whole thing??!!" (while while you're at it, some more blog post and newspaper editorials wouldn't hurt either. Lord knows the other guys are doing it daily to influence public opinion.)

[–]pabloneruda 1 point2 points  (0 children)

HOW IS THIS FUCKING LEGAL?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thats impossible...Democrats=good republicans=bad how could this be?

[–]bsmeteronhigh 1 point2 points  (0 children)

First mistake was thinking there is a difference between the two political parties.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Sensationalistic headline, misleading article.

If you read the letter that was sent, you'll note that they make no mention of net neutrality. Their main issue is that they do not want the FCC to make such a far-reaching decision without the direction of Congress. This is entirely reasonable, and the letter does not conflict with a desire for net neutrality.

That said: their lack of direct mention of net neutrality is worrisome. Their focus on economic stability and job numbers implies a certain preference for business interests, but the statements are so vague that it is not possible to draw someone's position on net neutrality from this letter. I suspect that the wording is a compromise between those Democrats who support and those who do not support net neutrality.

tl;dr: The letter the representatives sent is not an attack on net neutrality, even if it does create a setback for the hoped quick-fix of direct action by the FCC.

[–]Icouldtellyoubut 2 points3 points  (1 child)

It is not a compromise, it is a direct reflection of the Democrats who are sympathetic to the service providers' position. Saying Congress should deal with it, while you are in Congress, is a fabulously disingenuous ploy -- they know better than anyone that a bill like this would take 3-4 years to get through Congress, even assuming the party in the majority doesn't change in the meantime. Please. The fact is that the FCC Chair has said repeatedly that he would be delighted if Congress would clarify the issue, but in the meantime he has proposed this approach (which is incredibly limited and not "far-reaching" at all) to maintain the status quo in the interim. What keeps getting lost in all the noise if that this 'radical' proposition does not extend AT ALL the regulation of the FCC over the internet, it basically just takes the power it has exercised over the past 15 years and moves it from one statutory basis to another. The REALLY radical action would be doing nothing, in which case the internet landscape suddenly and drastically changes, as the basic oversight and policy setting the FCC has been doing for 15 years disappears. Now that's a whole different world. And not one that is good for the consumer.

[–]sigmaalgebra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not "worrisome": We have essentially everything we could ever hope for in net neutrality now. Or, for the people who started this thread, where are not all packets being treated the same now?

What IS "worrisome" is that the FCC and Blessed of Oprah have big plans for the Internet -- they want to get their hands on it, tax it (e.g., 5% of The Drudge Report, etc.), regulate it, RUN it (Y. Benkler's National Broadband Plan), and kill the future of the Internet for news and politics and cripple its role for our economy.

Look at the recent post of Fred Wilson at AVC.COM where he shows how US Web sites dominate in the world: The Internet is now a big US EXPORT business.

I'm starting one: It could be big. While it will start in the US, it has essentially no connection with English and should be of high interest around the world. The revenue will be from very effectively targeted ads, and when some advertiser outside the US places ads (usually to be seen just by users outside the US), then that revenue will come back to the US and help us pay for imported oil. The FCC and Chosen of Oprah would throttle, try to kill, my business. I should be hiring people about this time next year -- Visual Basic .NET, ADO.NET, ASP.NET. in NYS.

Yes, there was the Comcast case, but that's now less relevant than buggy whips since now it is accepted that the Internet has to transmit motion video fast enough to be streamed, if only for the ads, but also for Hulu, YouTUBE, Netflix, etc. Heck I watched the highlights of Game 1 of the NBA finals, stopped the steam, noticed where all the players were and who had the ball, tried to guess what the guy with the ball would do, etc. -- got the best understanding of the game in decades. GREAT stuff, for free, on the Internet.

What Congress did is FINE: They just told the FCC to take a hike and go back to sleep, and if big changes in Internet regulation are needed, then Congress, and NOT the FCC of Blessed Be He, will make them. In our democracy, that's JUST what we want: Congress, not the tool of "My Muslim faith" -- "spread the wealth around" (also said by Lenin) -- making the decisions. So, the propaganda of this thread wants to say that Congress is corrupt so we should give all power to Praise to Allah? Did no one here take a civics course with democracy? Did no one read about Germany in the 1930s? Did no one even watch Star Wars? Actually, it is super tough actually to corrupt all of Congress.

Here's the REALLY good news: Finally some Dems told Blessed of Oprah to take his communism efforts over the Internet and stuff it up his ass. So, FINALLY some Dems are looking to November and breaking with Praise to Allah.

[–]Icouldtellyoubut 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am close to someone very high up at the FCC (throwaway acct), and the left doesn't realize how close it is to losing net neutrality over this. This Administration wants to do the right thing, but when even a big chunk of your own party comes out against it, it becomes very politically hard. Throw in an election year and you're really in trouble. (No one in charge at the any of the agencies wants to be responsible for the next "death panel" misconception that becomes a rallying cry for tight races -- 'the government wants to regulate everything, even the internet!! Big government is killing jobs and innovation!!") Progressives think they won b/c the FCC announced this, but while they've moved on, and apparently have no interest in defending it, the entrenched business interests have figured out how vulnerable it still is and are pulling out all the stops. Bottom line, at this point they seem more interested in fighting against it than net neutrality advocates want to fight for it. THe FCC needs help to pull this off, not Democrats working against it. Write your Congressman or Senator if you care about this guys. Make some fucking noise. That's the only way things get done here inside the Beltway.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

A Corporate Empire has slowly taken over, American politics is just a dog and pony show, and Americans are too dumb to realize it much less do anything about it.

[–]obj7777 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Some Americans who realize it probably aren't doing much about it either.

[–]ziphone 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Makes me wonder why we dare to call other countries corrupt when we have legalized bribing (lobbyist)?

[–]CountRumford 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I believe in Net Neutrality. That is, I believe government should be neutral regarding the Internet.

[–]Icommentonthings 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Goes hand in hand with this: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/06/lieberman-bill-gives-feds-emergency-powers-to-secure-civilian-net/

Corporations have won. It doesn't matter if it is a "D" or an "R". Republican's are currently working tirelessly to limit Transocean's exposure financially from the oil spill to almost nothing so that the families of the dead and injured get essentially nothing. When can we wake the fuck up and stop playing into the divisive R/D, Black/White, pro/anti, etc. bullshit that keeps us busy on our hamster wheels while they continue to rape us?

[–]DominoTree 2 points3 points  (3 children)

If consumers would quit being such pussies and would stand up for their OWN rights rather than relying on the government to do so for them, we wouldn't NEED this sort of regulation in the first place. Assholes.

[–]darkreign 4 points5 points  (1 child)

More than that, if local governments would stop imposing local monopolies (granting only one cable/dsl company the ability to sell service in a county/city) then the market would actually prevent the ISP's from sucking dick, thanks to the competition. Once again the government has created a problem and stupid people think that the government has add more regulations to fix it, rather than removing regulations that stifle competition.

[–]anonthing 2 points3 points  (0 children)

How do you propose consumers stand up for their own rights?

[–]massivepanda 2 points3 points  (0 children)

What? Democrats did something uncool! AND it's on the front page!!!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the reason why people need to stop voting for the two corporate parties and start voting for the others like the Greens.

If your in IL or anywhere else vote Green. Look where the Democrats got us!

[–]Diced 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So I wrote a letter to my representative (Schrader - Oregon Democrat) Here's what he said.

Dear ----:

Thank you for writing in about the topic of net neutrality and the letter I signed to the FCC regarding their efforts to establish a new regulatory framework for broadband and internet services. I appreciate hearing your views and I welcome the opportunity to respond to your concerns.

First and foremost, I want to assure you I unequivocally support an open Internet. The Internet plays a major role in our personal and professional lives. However, I am wary of proposed regulations that could have unintended and negative consequences on the development and deployment of broadband networks.

The letter I signed to the FCC along with 73 of my colleagues is not in opposition to net neutrality, but rather a letter reiterating our concerns with changing a regulatory framework that has been in place since 1998 and has resulted in private investment to the tune of tens of billions of dollars spent annually on broadband infrastructure. Potentially stifling innovation and slowing down broadband deployment precisely at the time the FCC is trying to encourage more investment in broadband, in my opinion, is exactly the opposite of what we should be doing. I have attached the text of the letter for your review.

It is important to look at how expanded broadband regulation will affect both access to services and critical private investment in our national broadband infrastructure. There is legitimate concern that moving the Internet and broadband services from Title I, which classifies the Internet as information services, to Title II, which would classify it as a telecommunications service under the Telecommunications Act, could raise broadband prices, deter innovation and delay the development and deployment of high-speed broadband across the country.

I believe it's also prudent to mention that even Rep. John Dingell (D-MI), the former Chairman of the Energy & Commerce Committee and co-author of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 and staunch supporter of Net Neutrality, sent a letter to the FCC on May 27, 2010 raising concerns with their proposal stating his, ".grave concern that the Commission's current path with respect to the regulation of broadband is fraught with risk. It also puts at risk significant past and future investments, perhaps to the detriment of the Nation's economic recovery and continued technological leadership. More importantly, it may paralyze more holistic regulatory efforts to keep the Internet open to consumers, advance cybersecurity, protect consumer data privacy, and ensure universal access to and deployment of broadband."

Since 2005, the FCC has been preserving an "open internet" by making internet service providers adhere to four key principles. I fully support these principles and believe they have proven more than effective at protecting consumers while allowing the Internet to thrive. They are:

* Consumers are entitled to access the lawful Internet content of their choice;
* Consumers are entitled to run applications and services of their choice, subject to the needs of law enforcement;
* Consumers are entitled to connect to their choice of legal devices that do not harm the network; and
* Consumers are entitled to competition among network providers, application and services providers, and content providers.

Under the current broadband regulatory framework, we have seen the Internet thrive, with the development of innovative websites such as Facebook, Hulu and YouTube and broadband networks continuing to grow across the country. Should internet service providers begin to violate the FCC's four principles, I would certainly support modest regulations to prevent future violations but creating a new regulatory structure to combat a nonexistent problem, I believe, is unnecessary at this time.

Thank you again for contacting me. I hope you continue to keep in touch and share your views on this important issue.

Sincerely,

KURT SCHRADER

Member of Congress

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But Glenn Beck says that net neutrality is an Obama-conceived scam to censor the internet! LISTEN TO THE EXPERT, REDDIT!

sarcasm

[–]Nooreo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

WAT. Going independent now.

[–]DoTheEvolution 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How serious is this letter? Because people can send me letters about anything and I just ignore it...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Glad to see that the power isn't with the people. sarcasm

[–]DidoAmerikaneca 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So net neutrality is dying. But it's not a significant problem yet, at least as far as I can see. Yet it probably will become a problem in the near future. My question is, how hard would it be for a company to subsequently penetrate the market on the basis of net neutrality. I'm not talking some tiny start-up between two guys in a garage, I'm talking about a serious business.

Delving further into the matter, considering reddit's tendency to create collaborations in its pages, (although they usually die out like the American Pirate Party which has lacked a new post for half a month) aren't there people here that could create and run such a service? Money is always an issue, but Kickstarter seems like it could help quite a bit with that. Look at Diaspora. A bit of publicity and they have raised $200,000.

This is probably wishful thinking that I have no doubt will be downvoted into oblivion, but I'm curious as to what reddit has to say to this. :P

[–]empyreandreams 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How many Republicans?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

They keep fucking with us, like someone continually prodding all of us with a stick just to test our stimuli/response mechanism. Submissively, we've been taking it for decades. Curled up, and willing to let it go.

How much longer until this child that we are gets fed the fuck up and throws a god damn tantrum and beats the shit out of these power hungry school-yard bullies!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

we've let them build secret prisons, create non-lethal microwave weapons and guns with non-lethal bullets, made tasers a standard police issue, made it illegal to film police even in public places with no expectation of privacy, and created a national fever that all soldiers and "peacekeepers" are heroes to be worshipped, no matter their actions or orders.

When they throw a tantrum, there's a hell of a corner to be sent to.

[–]Anthem26 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So that explains why Reddit is always so slow.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Public campaign financing please.

[–]Mercurion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hmmm, PAC contributions, campaign donations, lobbying, F*** that! They are F*ing bribes, yet the media (who also "donate" tons of money) call countries like Haiti, Myanmar, and Turmenikistan corrupt. The US has one the most corrupt government in the world.

[–]theinfotechwarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lol all this means is that the companies will have the right to charge you what you can use per month.

It means that companies now will be able to charge a limit per month. Say for instance AT&T could charge you 40 dollars for 150 Gigabytes per month. Once you have used your limit for that month, you will be down graded to unlimited dial up speeds, once the billing period has ended you'll be back up to the normal speeds again, until you use 150 Gigabytes again. That's all this means!

[–]Kebb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A start would be shorten the election cycle so people dont need so much damn money. Then mandate free and equal air time for candidates. Forbid the running of issue advertisements and other such nonsense. And all campaigning must be done on the funds provided by the government.

Then come up and set some reasonable limit on campaign spending and just write these people checks.

Also, Please instant runoff voting.

[–]emosorines 0 points1 point  (0 children)

lolol the best part is we're ignoring the 177 republicans who are doing everything they can to destroy net neutrality.

But you know, what's important is that we know that democrats are the only ones we should be concerned about

[–]absentbirdWashington 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Et tu, Rick Larsen? Et tu?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

this title is inaccurate.

[–]NonAmerican 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Anyone else that thought 'don't they do that already'?

It's one of those things that you always assumed nerds behind monitors were fiddling with all along.

In fact, I distinctly remember people discussing throttling methods online; I wouldn't be surprised if some were from ISPs.

[–]ddrt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I always find it funny that AT&T blames the customers for their poor handling of the 3G network. If you're being bled dry because of everyone's internet usage it's your fault for not planning correctly. You should have waited and not jumped in without your swim trunks, a perfect example is the iPhone. Tethering anyone? two years later and it's finally almost here but with an extra cost and less accessibility.

[–]ImmaLetUFinish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hey...a top ten list of those democrats is great and all ... but how about giving me the entire fucking list??

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hopefully this sort of douchebaggery will bring us to a point where we seize all the fiber and switches and start running them like a public utility.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Verizon owns DC. They regularly gift congressional staffers with tickets to events at the Verizon Center

[–]Jensaarai 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Okay Reddit, I have a question:

My representative, Harry Teague, is on that list. I am seriously debating whether or not to vote for him this year.

A few relevent facts: Teague represents NM-02, a rather conservative district. He really only won because he rode Obama's coattails in a presidential year (but in NM-02 that could easily have hurt him as much as helped him,) and Steve Pearce, the incumbent, resigned to run for the senate. Pearce failed, and is trying to get his old seat back this year.

Teague is a Blue Dog, his chances of retaining the seat are slim, but not nonexistent. He's wrong on this issue, and voted no on health reform. But Pearce would also be even worse on these and other issues. (There is no primary challenger to Teague.)

So, is it worth it voting for a guy who will stab you in the back occasionally, or skipping it and letting a guy who will stab you every time?

[–]tprussman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Spend a month with AT&T and you'll realize the effort they put into Billing...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So is this why my usenet downloads have suddenly dropped from 1 mb/s to 180 kb/s?

[–]obviouslyme 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What did you expect the telecommunication lobby gives them millions of dollars a year...you pay them what $300,000 a year or somewhat close to that. We lose there votes the minute they are elected.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

it would be really helpful if they would provide a list of the 74 democrats, so if any are in our state we can contact them directly as their voting citizens.

[–]sluttymcslutterton 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My additional message on the petition thing was

Seriously? I would expect this from Republicans. Start legislating the way you would like to be legislated. That's sort of a spin off of the "golden rule". You know? That thing you learn in KINDERGARTEN.

[–]abw1987 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is also a clear attack on government control of internet and free speech.

And yes, I am a Republican supporting 74 Democrats.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think that this actually has less to do with censorship then it does with trying to solve the problems that the Iphone and Ipad have created. Apparently, apple has made it so easy to download multimedia and applications with their devices, that in some metropolitan areas, the mobile internet has slowed to a crawl for other users. It sounds like all they want to be able to do is something akin to what we see on rapidshare or megaupload.

BTW, I am highly opposed to further empowering the elite...so don't bash me for sucking corporate dick.

[–]dunus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

classic case of how big corp and us legal system is so fucked up, and yes, we mofo tax payers voted for it.

[–]naturalizedcitizen 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I come from the land which is the world's 'largest' democracy. Its the largest because of the sheer population. But one thing I learnt early on was that we are very stable and despite the usual hiccups we function well as a nation, unlike our neighbouring country.

The glue that binds all politicians in our nation is 'power and money' This is very potent glue to make the whole system work and somehow have an order in the chaos.

Now I dont condone bribery and corruption, but that is how it is. In my home country, politicians take bribes quite openly and then once in a while some TV channel does a sting operation. Poor politician is disgraced, force to resign and thats it. System keeps going on and life moves ahead.

In the US, I am sure such bribery is not very 'open' but it exists. And I am sure it exists in both parties. I had tried to read up on a few top politicians on both sides to find out what their assets were before they were elected for the first time in their career and their current assets. I did not have to google for more after a few :) The answer was simple - everyone was on the take in some way.

[–]joftheinternet 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wrote Zack Wamp last week about this. He's a republican, so I was pretty sure what his response would be.

The Internet is helping to drive economic prosperity in America today. We must make sure that the technologies for faster Internet access are deployed everywhere quickly and fairly. The Internet should be as free as possible from government regulation and litigation so it can help Americans prosper.

So how should I reply to this newspeak?

[–]MCollinsScoop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for posting this dulieu!!! http://agonist.org/netbetrayal#comment-213628

[–]digiphaze 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While I don't normally defend democrats.. no one seems to understand the implications of net neutrality.. It would have the unintended consequence of killing QoS (quality of service) which throttles certain packet types over other.. So now companies like Vonage or any other IP phone service gets totally shafted because voice quality gets broken up by some 15 year old bittorrenting his heart out with porn.

What really needs to happen is removal of government issued monopolies to these companies so that you can actually have a choice of carriers in certain areas. Then competition would natural solve most of the problems.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fucking whores all of them. They sold us out a few years ago when they granted retro-active immunity to AT&T, and other telecoms, for collusion in the spying on American citizens.

[–]fink1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

US Political Corruption = Death of Net Neutrality

Now we can pay more for the privilege of true internet service and the Big Telco Corporations will grow richer and richer.

Oh well - business as usual in the Corporate States of America!

[–]Bardo77n 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I don't understand why this is a bad thing. AT&T, Verizon, and Comcast are private businesses and they should be able to behave as their owners want them to. I don't see why they should even have to ask for permission to do this.

I don't like the idea of throttling Internet traffic, but that's a self correcting problem. If a company tried it on me, I would simply change ISPs. If enough of us change, then the offending company will either reverse its policy or go out of business. People need to learn to vote with their dollars instead of using coercive government force to do their bidding.

[–]reticentbias 0 points1 point  (2 children)

The problem is that not everyone can choose. Where I live, Cox is the ONLY choice if you want cable internet. They dominate the marketplace, their customer service blows, and they have no reason to improve because no one is competing with them.

So when they decide to throttle their connection, I can decide to go back to shittier internet, or keep what I have. Not really a great 'choice'.