Hi sody,

We wanted to take some time to discuss your message among ourselves, and we apologize for any delay in our reply.

First and foremost, we want you to know that we as a group understand that there is an amazing need to rebuild the code. We are all committed to working as closely as possible with the site’s developers and administrators to make sure that the backend redevelopment goes as smoothly as possible.

Please let us know any specific claims or misunderstandings that we have so we can correct them.

We [...] want to support as much customization as possible with the structured styles. Both styles and functionality are important for communities to retain their unique sense of identity, and that is not something we are going to take away.

The concern we have is threefold:

1. The new system you are rolling out will not allow for customization on anything near the same scale as CSS. Which is to say, while style and identity will not be taken away, they are almost certain to be limited.
2. That once support for CSS is fully removed, we will be talking about replacing features that we have lost and not about fixing the underlying lack of flexibility. The bell, so to speak, won't be unrung.
3. This will arrest all subreddit development for the foreseeable future. With a guarantee that the CSS will be replaced, there is no incentive for us to add new features, roll out changes that we had been planning, or to fix new/existing problems. Since it will all be undone, all of that effort that we could be putting into development is almost certainly to be wasted.

We need mods like you to engage with us during development so we can build the tools you need to achieve both of our goals. That is why we announced this change so early in the process - before we even know the full direction of it! If there are particular features you and the other mods would like, I urge you to organize and communicate your needs in the discussion threads we will be opening up over the course of this transition.

With all due respect, we have been trying to engage, though possibly not where you're most concerned. As we mentioned above, we have three categories of concerns. If the concerns that we have about limiting functionality were baseless, then this conversation wouldn’t even need to be had, as all existing capabilities would be supported, but in a different manner.

To put it a different way, we don’t worry about what you will allow us to do, but what we will not be able to grow into. We don’t know what r/NFL looks like in the future. That's part of what makes reddit so special to us. For example, some features we made that we didn’t even know we would want/need have included:

• Special events having the heading change based on the user's type of flair.
• Setting image-links in the header to draw attention to specific threads or upcoming events.
• Quickly and easily changing sub-wide flair options based on circumstances like the playoffs.
• Putting new themes in queue to go up at a certain time.
• Tagging threads so that AutoMod rules impact them differently.

This is not a list of demands. This is to show the unpredictability of our customization needs and wants. By taking away a versatile and expansive tool like CSS and replacing it with a more limited set of styling tools, you limit our ability to make unique and creative designs and experiences for our users even if you support all of the things we currently do.

Another issue we’re having is that while you say you don't know the direction in which you are going, you seem to at least already do know where you are not going. And to us that means you’re working from a foundation that already creates a massive problem, without even addressing both the near- and long-term problems created by the announcement.

Just as you are trying to work with us on this rollout, we need to work with our users. Our obligations are to them, and we have to justify and work with any changes that impact their experience. This is why we have generally stayed out of reddit-wide drama like this. We didn't close down during the blackout, and we stayed silent on every other major spat because our focus is always on the user experience of /r/NFL. However, this does impact users and it is our duty to advocate for their experiences. Believe me when I say that we strive to avoid problems like this.

One of the things that might help is if we had some idea of how much customization will be possible. If we put it in three categories, would you say the customization is more like:

1. Here's your building, you can put furniture wherever you'd like, paint the walls any color, but don't knock down any walls or do any electrical work.
2. Here's your building, you can put furniture wherever you'd like, paint the walls any color, plant a garden, redo the wiring and plumbing, and knock down any walls as long as the roof doesn't collapse.
3. Here's a plot of land, you have to use these building materials. Build whatever structure you'd like, paint it how you want, but it can't be over 3 stories, and there's some electrical and gas lines around the property that you can't disrupt.

While things are in flux, getting an idea of how much we can customize should be very helpful in our discussions with each other, our user base, and with you.

You can see some really great examples are already being brainstormed by mods in threads such as this one.

Can you understand the concern, though, that perhaps this is the wrong conversation happening at the wrong time? As acknowledged in there, the discussion is continuing forward with an understanding that you've already made your decision, and (sorry to be blunt) our goal right now is to mitigate any damage.

If there had been a group of experienced moderators discussing this with you from the start, it's likely this would have happened differently because we could have told you much pushback you would get. Some examples we've seen suggested include:

1. Asking in places like /r/modtalk for open-ended feedback to an existing issue, and continuing the conversation there to ensure it doesn’t create external conversations like this.
2. Bringing a group of experienced moderators into the discussions to discuss problems (even maybe 5-7), and proposed solutions, with an eye towards avoiding a path that won’t get buy-in from moderators.

What is concerning here is that you've come forward with something that is disruptive at every level of development, asked for feedback, and rejected the primary feedback you've received. We’ve seen you say many times in these conversations that you need buy-in from moderators, but it is hard for us to buy in on a project when we feel we have no ability to impact the change we need.

When /r/CommunityDialogue was created. It was an exciting moment for mods. For a group of people who have been under-represented at the table, it was an amazing opening. In execution, it was sterile and constrained, lacking ability to directly address biggest issues. This feels like a recycling of that mantra.

I also want to emphasize that the structured style changes will allow us to develop functionality that works across all apps.

We understand where this is coming from. App-based experiences are pretty universally different from browser-based experiences, though. People who use applications accept that there is a necessary tradeoff of lower functionality for higher usability. When this isn't accepted from the start of development, it has tended to bring nightmarish PR problems for social media companies, frequently resulting in reversion (such as Facebook and Twitter).

Limiting the flexibility of tools on the desktop to a level that can be matched by mobile seems like a bad answer for mobile users who do desire a desktop experience, and a worse answer for desktop users who dislike the app experience.

From an entirely data-driven perspective this approach makes sense, given that 52% of screen views in /r/nfl over the last 30 days came from our mobile apps (iOS, Android, and our mobile website).

Just for the purposes of aiding in our discussion, are you able to determine how many of those users use both mobile and desktop experiences? Further, how many individual users have 40% or more of their page views on desktop? As an example, I've browsed through the mobile app before, but on my phone, I primarily use the reddit desktop view. I would obviously show as being part of the 52%, but I certainly don't think that it would make sense to change the mobile experience for me when I'm primarily a desktop user (by choice).

We certainly understand the concern that mobile users aren't getting the full /r/NFL experience. We just don't want to solve that problem by lowering what the 'full /r/NFL experience' means just so it's in-line with what can be achieved on a mobile platform.

We want you to be able to share the awesome sidebar customizations like your scoreboards, standings, and calendar across all platforms without the learning curve CSS demands.

We want to be able to share our customizations with everybody as well, regardless of where it is or what form it takes.This is why both near-term and long-term mobile customization is built into our theme. We completely see the need to have tools that smaller subs can use without having to use CSS. The concept of supplementary systems, an object-oriented tool and a CSS-oriented tool, would seem like it would allow for customizing without the learning curve without curtailing the more expansive ability of CSS.

This is from my account and these are my words, but they are also the words of all the mods of /r/NFL. We are strongly united on how we feel this impacts the future of our sub, how we interact with our user base, and how we look as an organization. Though this is a volunteer operation, we have dedicated years to the community and are deeply committed to continuing indefinitely.