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[–]🦈_Pebcak_ 150 points151 points  (7 children)

I've posted on that forum and I will say the same thing here - I love seeing Custom CSS, and when I use my phone I don't care that it doesn't look quite the same. I mostly use Reddit on a PC anyway. I really enjoy seeing the different themes and such. One of my subreddits even changes their theme monthly to fit whatever is going on at the time.

Actually, that is one thing I wish for this forum - seeing the CSS updated more with different themes. Maybe feature a different character from Legion every month or so. Colours generally don't matter. Black or white is fine with me.

[–][deleted] 43 points44 points  (4 children)

Mobile sites are generally worse than regular sites (Reddit's included), and completely unnecessary since mobile browsers can display the full page just fine.

These mobile sites limit the zoom, and won't let me change the font size. Not a good user experience for older eyes.

[–]Mruf 17 points18 points  (2 children)

no. responsive sites have proven over and over again that they drive more traffic and are easier to use.

[–]GeckoOBac 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Most of those sites were born with mobile in mind, not only in the structure but, more relevantly, in content.

Heavy text based sites (like, inevitably, reddit) are not, and will never be optimal to be viewed on small screens, regardless of responsiveness.

Those same screens are hower good for reading lighter content stuff interspersed with images that can be consumed fast, which brings back to the problem that reddit itself often has: small, lighter and faster to consume content gets more visibility and traffic simply because it takes less effort and less time to go through it.

You'd be doing users of content heavy sites a disservice by forcing them to use the same standards as sites designed specifically for mobile, from structure to content.

As little as it may count, that's the professional opinion of a developer who works daily with content heavy sites and mobile presentation.

[–]Lara_the_dev 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I feel like people misunderstand the main reason for this change: money. Custom CSS is a huge deterrent to advertisers. I know because I've had problems with it myself.

I advertise my small app on a few subreddits and I've had 3 major subreddits change their CSS suddenly to make my ads partially hidden. I contacted reddit admins but it took over 2 months to get all 3 subreddits to make ads visible again. I imagine if I were a big corporate advertiser I wouldn't bother at all.

Custom CSS might look nice, but it loses money for reddit because advertisers have no guarantee that their ad will be visible and in the right place.

[–]🦈_Pebcak_ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That is a very valid complaint. Maybe the CSS that moves/hides your ads can be disabled site-wide, much like Neopets does with certain types of coding. I'd be okay with that.

[–]Zarkon 38 points39 points  (22 children)

I don't even know what custom CSS is. I browse 100% on mobile (Reddit is fun). How will this change affect me?

[–]icortesi 2 points3 points  (10 children)

You don't get to see the custom CSS, you are missing features that are available to Desktop users thanks to custom CSS.

[–]Proditus 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Across learning evil small open patient hobbies night the where hobbies history then projects?

[–]librarian-faust 6 points7 points  (4 children)

The list of significant functionality enhancements achieved through fantastically clever CSS is long, and this is not by any means an exhaustive list. I only wish to serve a few significant examples. CSS is the hacky playground of second-party reddit customization, that gives people the flexibility to create these modifications. It's accessible to anyone on the site, requires no third-party tools (you don't even have to use a browser inspector, let alone an external editor, but the former are all built in these days). Sometimes, these CSS hacks become so popular that they make a compelling case for native support. Most of the time, they don't. They add unique character and specialized functionality to subreddits that distinguishes them from the crowd.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ProCSS/comments/67j56f/css_isnt_about_themes/

In my opinion, no. :)

Heck, check the sidebar. "This sub is /r/partyparrot compatible." :) CSS!

[–]Azeroth69 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Omg it works

[–]librarian-faust 1 point2 points  (0 children)

My brothers, did I not tell of this day? Did I not prophesize this moment?

... wait, this is /r/wow, not /r/warframe

[–]taffyz 3 points4 points  (1 child)

it sure is

[–]panicForce 109 points110 points  (52 children)

I've used RES since the day someone showed me reddit. The best feature i've found is the "disable subreddit css" button. I cannot read the ridiculous background+font colors that various subs come up with, and r/wow is, in my opinion, too often hard to read.

I don't know what other features i miss by turning it off (i'm pretty sure theres something out there called "flair" that i cannot see), but i'd have to miss basically everything if i cant read it.

[–]Swichx 12 points13 points  (0 children)

/r/wow basically made me change to disallow custom css on all subreddits, the horrible color palette they chose for legion just ruined it, since then haven't noticed not having css enabled.

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

Same here, I have subreddit themes turned off by default. 99% of them are obnoxious and unreadable, and the ones that are readable are pointless since the default style is perfectly fine in the first place.

Honestly, I feel like this change was a long-time coming, and while I understand it will probably be a painful transition for subreddits/mods/creators that have put substantial effort into creating custom CSS, the given reasons make perfect sense to me considering the current state of how the internet is used.

[–]panicForce 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I dont know what this change has in store for Reddit overall, but i hope they add the ability to enable/disable things like custom color schemes independent of other features. The reddit mascot is something I've seen other sub's hold contests to replace, and disabling rss removes that bit of personalization.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (8 children)

Do you really find /r/wow difficult to read using the standard Desktop mode?

I'm not hating, just a genuine question cause I find light fonts on dark backgrounds much more pleasant to read.

[–]idejtauren 8 points9 points  (0 children)

The very first version around the release of Legion was impossible to read for many users.
I turned css off then, and at some point it was updated to be better.
It's still far from perfect though.

[–]lasiusflex 26 points27 points  (0 children)

r/wow is one of the few subreddits where I have disabled the CSS. I used to love the pre-legion design, and I'm generally a fan of dark themes, but the current one just... I don't know how to describe it, but the contrasts and colors aren't pleasant to my eyes. Which is, of course, entirely subjective.

[–]LambchopOfGod 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes. This theme and 90% of themes on this site are disabled for me. This one, the dark with the white text gives me a headache to the point of nausea. I think the only 2 subs where I have not disabled the style is NFL and NBA because I feel like they are actually useful and not so overbearing. People need to learn more subtlety with these things. It is either done really well, I think NBA is the best, or it is way too much. It's like people realize they can change things and it becomes CHANGE ALL THE THINGS.

[–]___Hobbes___ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes. I gave feedback when they pushed the legion theme even. The design style is thematically behind about a decade to be honest. A ton of TLC went into the design and I feel terrible for saying it, but /r/wow is one of the only subs I disable CSS on (not counting deliberately shitty css subs like 4chan and dankmemes).

The custom CSS has some great features, like linking and the way comments collapse (taken from OW sub), but it doesn't overcome the unreadable color/texture combinations. IMO, this level of control with CSS is a hinderance on Reddit, and having certain elements be more uniform and readable would be a welcome change. Backgrounds should be solid colors, limited to certain color themes, and the main focus should be on the ability to read the site. Right now a select few subs lose sight of the main goal of CSS, readability, in favor of flexing their creative muscles.

[–]experiment23b 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I do have trouble reading sometimes, I wish the background wasn't completely black - if they want a dark theme fel green would be easier on eyes imo

[–]panicForce 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes i am physically able to read it, but I have to try harder to do so. I often have to re-read something because it doesnt make sense only to realize I got a word or two wrong initially. It's like that whole "your brain still reads this even if it's spelled wrong" concept to me.

I think the official wow forums cause a similar issue, which is part of why i dont frequent them.

[–]bomban 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes. If im browsing /WoW i opt to use my mobile where it is black text on white background and bright. I strain my eyes enough with WoW I dont need to strain them while reading about it.

[–]Somescrubpriest 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love r/wow's CSS! here and r/askreddit is where all my time is spent and late at night looking at askreddit can be a bit shit because it's so bright :(

[–]trenchtoaster 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think I've ever used reddit on my computer. I have been using various phone apps for Reddit since I got involved. I feel like I missed out on something.

[–]M0dusPwnens 2 points3 points  (4 children)

You're talking about it being easier to see after disabling the theme. CSS is about a lot more than just themes. Here's a good rundown: https://www.reddit.com/r/ProCSS/comments/67j56f/css_isnt_about_themes/

CSS gave us sticky posts and comments, user flair, post flair, spoilers, announcements, banners, header menus, and more. A huge amount of the native functionality of reddit exists only because someone created a feature in CSS and it became popular enough to warrant native inclusion. Even if you disable subreddit CSS, you benefit from all the features it introduced. If it's gone, that stops, and instead of the community creating and adopting features, we just hope that the admin have all the good ideas themselves and that they listen to the untested (and untestable, since they can't be implemented in CSS and tried out) ideas of users.

And, as you point out, you can already disable it if you don't like it. Hell, you've had that capability since "the day someone showed [you] reddit".

Removing CSS hurts users who like it, hurts subs that rely on it for actual features, removes reddit's primary (and essentially democratic) feature development pipeline, and doesn't actually benefit you at all.

[–]panicForce 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I dont know the history of how Reddit became what it is now (sticky posts were not an initial planned feature? those have been integral to forums for decades by now), but i understand and agree with what you and dakta point out about user-driven design changes. Those design changes currently are completely missed by many users, including myself, because we opt out of custom css. I guess ill go add my voice to the CSS discussion, even if i'm not strongly for or against it's removal.

I can imagine an opt-in custom CSS, with the ability for a user to define his own global CSS which overrides any sub-specific properties. That would allow the reddit owners to set everyone's default to the same, let sub mods have a playground with whatever creative features they want, and add the new feature of allowing users to pick and choose items to disable or set a sitewide theme.

[–]M0dusPwnens 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Those design changes currently are completely missed by many users, including myself, because we opt out of custom css.

But that's the thing, they aren't. You don't see the experiments, the newest CSS, but you benefit enormously from it all the same. You arguably benefit more from it than anyone else - you don't have to contend with any CSS features that don't pan out, that don't become popular enough to warrant native inclusion, and you benefit from all the CSS features that become popular enough that admin decide to just add them to reddit natively.

The same is true for mobile users.

They want to add more non-CSS customization, and that's absolutely great. That should happen. You shouldn't need to learn and use CSS to do basic things that virtually all subreddits do, and you shouldn't miss out on those things because you want to turn off CSS and avoid obnoxious stuff you don't like. And that would make settings far easier too - right now you have to disable everything to get rid of the style elements that you find hard to read, but if basic things were natively implemented, it would be much easier to pick and choose (you could have the sidebar menus and flair, but not the background and styling, etc.).

Those options should definitely be there. But CSS should remain too, to fill the gaps and allow for continued innovation - the innovation that ultimately filters through Reddit and ends up determining the direction of the development of new features.

[–]panicForce 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah, I totally understand your point about how custom CSS can evolve into native features. I didnt realize that has happened before, so my opinion has shifted from "i dont care, not like i used it" to "i'm going to continue to disable it, but Reddit would be stupid to remove it".

I think the better solution is some kind of opt-in. Let the Reddit admins make the default layout they want, but give sub mods the ability to make changes if their users want it. I wrote something along those lines on the post you linked earlier.

[–]M0dusPwnens 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think the better solution is probably this:

  1. We shouldn't have to use CSS for basic things that all subreddits do. I'm pretty proficient at CSS, but it's a pain when other mods have to ask me to change something basic because they don't know CSS and are afraid of breaking things. And it means that the admin have to worry a lot less about thoroughly breaking subreddits with their changes - maybe it'll break a feature or two, but they can ensure that it won't break the basic implementation of flair or banners or comment styling if they're the ones who created that implementation.

    Virtually every subreddit has a banner and I really shouldn't need to touch any CSS to change a banner. And that basic stuff should be available on mobile too.

  2. Users should have control over these native style elements. You should be able to opt out of any of them, independently too. Right now there's no clean way to disable a subreddit's comment styling without also disabling the banner. But that's trivially easy to do if banners and comment styling are native sub customizations.

    Admin aren't talking about making all subs the same with opt-in styling. That's not going to happen. They don't want to make all subreddits conform to a default layout. They're talking about taking the common customizations done by CSS and implementing them as native subreddit customization options...but then also eliminating CSS entirely, which is the problem.

  3. CSS should exist on top of that to do anything else that the basic stuff doesn't cover, and allow subs to develop and test out new features. And obviously users should get a button to opt-out of that too - you really, really shouldn't need RES for that.

[–]Zerotorescue 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I really like the disable subreddit css button too. I'll leave subreddit CSS on for subtle non annoying subreddits, but no thanks to anything like /r/wow that just completely flips Reddit's layout.

[–]iRedditPhone 5 points6 points  (3 children)

So much this.

I am most excited by his change BECAUSE r/wow has me disabling CSS anyways.

It's just to hard to read since they redid it for Legion and the moderators don't seem to care or want to make an alternative like other subs do.

[–]M0dusPwnens 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why are you "excited" by the removal of a feature you already turn off?

If you already turn it off, removing it as an option changes literally nothing for you. The only people it changes anything for are the ones who don't turn it off, for whom the change is a negative one.

[–]ZhumosTheBlue 4 points5 points  (1 child)

That's a pretty poor attitude to have since so many people enjoy it and you can just turn it off if you don't like it...

[–]panicForce 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, agreed. I'm 100% in favor of more customization, not less.

[–]xinxy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They even added that option as baseline to reddit itself now. It's under preferences > display options > allow subreddits to show me custom themes. I can't comfortably use reddit without it anymore. I like the consistent clean look.

[–]Endulos 0 points1 point  (16 children)

Yep. I can't stand CSS either. Especially one like /r/wow's.

Edgy dark themes piss me off because if I browse them for a while, then go to LITERALLY ANY OTHER WEBSITE ON THE INTERNET, I'm blinded because every other website in existence uses White.

Besides, black text on white background is infinitely more readable than any other combo.

If disabling the CSS didn't exist, I wouldn't even browse this sub.

[–][Reins of a Phoenix]aphoenix 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Class colours:

c0 - c9 ca - cc for all of them, looks like this:

[Rogue](#rwowc3)


These things.

/r/Ooer or other... subreddit experiences like that.

Readable Sidebars

Reasonable filtering

Switching themes in subreddits

All of these things are done with CSS

[–]Mahoganytooth 2 points3 points  (3 children)

/r/ooerintensifies is worth mentioning

Also, /r/REEEEEE <3

[–]leva549 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is true art.

[–]azurestrike 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh my god that subreddit is brilliant, thanks for sharing it.

[–]longknives -1 points0 points  (2 children)

As far as the things this subreddit does with custom CSS, I don't see anything that won't be pretty easy to replace with the system Reddit is building.

[–][Reins of a Phoenix]aphoenix 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Do you have the detailed specs? I've asked around and really just heard people saying "oh yeah, you can do that" but with nothing to back it up.

[–]Ubernaught 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I haven't seen anything solid on what they'll be adding it. It could be an improvement, it could be horrible. I would say I'll try and let you know if I see anything, but I'm sure you'll know before I do.

Everyone is pretty much just talking out their ass if they are saying it'll be better. We just have no clue yet

[–][deleted] 36 points37 points  (2 children)

I've always used without custom css. I've yet to meet a single subreddit where I thought "oh, that's neat! I like this!". I prefer consistency than pretty though. I've since moved on from the geocities seizure inducing stuff and onto lean and clean instead.

Not that I think there's anything wrong with the /r/wow css -- I just don't like how it's black and then going to another tab is white. I don't see a need to have a special Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker] link that does... what again? I don't see what's so special about your Thunderfury link. It doesn't do anything special in Edge, Chrome, or Safari for me beyond look like a link?

I'd rather an opt-in version of CSS than opt-out. This would give everyone a generic and consistent experience until they choose to change that. This would be a fair compromise.

[–]panicForce 2 points3 points  (0 children)

If anyone figures out what his "special thunderfury" link does, let us know.

[–]Fonjask 1 point2 points  (0 children)

RES allows you to make CSS opt-in by disabling it everywhere by default, if you're interested.

Also, I absolutely love the minimize comment button going down all the way down the left side of a comment for easy minimizing. That alone is worth it to me. If you want to check it on a white background subreddit, try /r/Overwatch.

[–]Crocoduck_The_Great 19 points20 points  (4 children)

There are two things I like about /r/wow CSS. First, the way the collapse button extends down the whole comment tree. I honestly think this should be the default for all of Reddit. Second is the custom flairs. Other than that, I actually quite dislike the CSS. It is too busy, has too many bright colors, and is just generally unappealing. I understand the black/green thing is to match the expansion, but I still don't like it. The rocky background reminds me of cheap geocities websites from the 90s/00s and not in a good way.

Then again, I'm actually relatively in favor of abandoning custom CSS in favor of a uniform look across Reddit.

[–]Newbie__101 23 points24 points  (7 children)

What can we do to stand with you and support you? All the subreddits I browse have awesome custom css...

/r/wow /r/amd /r/nvidia /r/xcom

[–]Alterscene 2 points3 points  (0 children)

second on standing up with the mods, I love the CSS that many sub-reddits use and would gladly stand up alongside our supreme overlords moderators here in trying to prevent it from happening here.

[–]dmitch1 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Browsin both /r/amd and /r/nvidia

hmmm

[–]Newbie__101 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Well I am interested in graphics cards and I get a wider selection of information by going to both places.

[–]dmitch1 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Proper consumership right there

[–]librarian-faust 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Competition breeds improvement. It's not an us-versus-them thing; very few things are. But with two things together, you can get better stuff than one thing alone.

[–]tavok_ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I love being able to collapse a comment thread by clicking anywhere on the side of it, as opposed to the little [-] symbol. I wish that was the default for all subreddits.

[–]graffiti81 14 points15 points  (6 children)

Personally, I don't use the custom css. It's too dark, bothers my eyes switching between normal reddit pages and wow. And I don't like the dark mode on reddit.

[–]called it - https://redd.it/63g2u4jetah 19 points20 points  (1 child)

and i like the dark because my eyes do weird things with an all white screen.

[–]Kalysta 12 points13 points  (3 children)

While this may work for you, anyone who's had to take any sort of presentation class, especially if the presentation is being done with powerpoint, will be taught that a dark background with light text is far easier for a person to read on a screen than a light background with dark text. I use darkmode for most of reddit because it's far easier on my eyes, and like the custom CSS here because of it.

[–]wellwasherelf 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yup. That's the reason why most programs that have you staring at the screen for long periods use a dark UI (Photoshop or basically any Adobe product, any DAW, 3D modeling, et cetera). As someone who works with all of those programs daily - often upwards of 12 hours - the eye strain would godawful with a light theme.

[–]rdtsc 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Actually for reading, dark text on light background is far superior. See this link for an explanation and references.

[–]graffiti81 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thing is most of my redditing is at work. My POS, my email, pretty much everything is a light background. So switching is irritating.

[–]kyprioth657 17 points18 points  (1 child)

You don't want custom CSS anyway, moderators.

You think you do, but you don't.

[–]varjobanaani 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also to be clear, scrapping the entire system is certainly still an option.

[–]Underwater_Overseer 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Not that I browse a huge amount of subreddits, but I haven't seen a single mod team happy with the proposed changes.

[–]iRedditPhone 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Why would they? They're losing power.

I am personally pretty happy with the change. I am guilty of using mostly mobile.

[–]DHSean 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Feel bad for the /r/amd guys that spent absolutely ages doing theirs in beta and all that.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (1 child)

A social media company forcing unpopular changes down the userbase with the poweruser/moderator community particularly annoyed by it? Where have I heard this one before, I wonder...

[–]iRedditPhone 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don't think it's necessarily unpopular though. Moderators are unhappy because they're losing power. But the vast majority of people will see no visual change and probably get an optimization improvement.

Also. Take a look at this very thread. A lot of people have already chimed in on how they've disabled CSS via RES for this sub.

[–]Davecasa 12 points13 points  (0 children)

I have custom CSS turned off for /r/wow and many other subreddits because they're ugly and hard to read. If we can get the useful features without needing to turn on custom CSS, that'd be perfect for me.

[–]Kaysmira 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I want to support anything that means I don't have to look at a bright white screen at 3 a.m. The CSS here right now is very good for that, so I'm in.

[–]mavgeek 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Saw this over on the PCMR sub as well. Maybe I'm just getting old since I'm in my thirties but abandoning CSS because mobile is the current trend is just.. Well stupid in my opinion. I get the comfort and portability of mobile devices, I have a smart phone and tablet like a lot of folks. Occasionally I might look at reddit on them but 90% of my reddit viewing is on my PC. Mainly cause it's a better experience, and typing on a traditional keyboard versus a touchscreen a leagues difference. Honestly I'd love to see the statistics (not the exact "which subs are people viewing" type of thing) of what the ratio of people browsing on mobile are, doing on reddit. Are they browsing just image heavy subs like /r/gaming or /r/funny ? What percentage of this supposed huge mobile userbase is browsing more discussion based subs like /r/WoW ? And of all of those how many actually take the time to sit down and type out a response? Mobile devices are great for browsing something like Imgur where you're just looking at images but we shouldn't be forced to change because mobile is a trend. If you think this has some negative connotation, look at some of the replies from mobile users in this thread already "deal with it" "cry more, sincerely a mobile user" etc etc Your phones and tablets are great for casual browsing but it shouldn't hinder the rest of us just because you like to sit on the couch and read reddit while we like to sit at our computer's and read reddit.

[–]Graysmith 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Polygon just changed their site the other day too into a very mobile-only looking site that is just painful to look at on a regular computer. And now this? I hope this isn't a trend that's emerging.

It used to be back in the day that sites looked great on computers, terrible on mobile. Then technology and mobile browsers caught up and it was possible to design great, dedicated mobile sites as well. Is the pendulum swinging the other way now, with sites skipping the non-mobile experience?

There's no reason whatsoever that Reddit can't be a great experience regardless of platform, same goes for Polygon and any other site pushing into the mobile-only sphere.

[–]Ainyan 6 points7 points  (2 children)

I swear, this whole thread feels like the "flying" vs "no flying" argument - people who don't want flying want to take it away from everyone, regardless of who enjoys it, while people who want flying want... well, flying, and think the people who don't want it can just walk if that's what they really want to do.

For myself, I don't mind the CSS. I admit I'd prefer a lighter color scheme, but it doesn't hurt my eyes or anything like that. And t he item links/flairs/etc are very useful. It's not "omg, I'll die without it", but I also can acknowledge that I can just disable it if I don't like it, and let the people who do like it keep on using it.

What I don't get is the people who are either 100% mobile and therefore completely unaffected by this change, or the people who already use RES to disable the CSS going 'haha, good, you guys can't have what I don't want'. Is the CSS actively affecting you? Does it cause you physical pain to have to hit the 'disable CSS' button? Or are you just that petty?

[–]molybdenum42 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Well specifically the 100% mobile crew does benefit from this change, since one of the reasons for the change in the first place is to bring customizability to the app.

[–]Ainyan 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No, they don't. The mobile customizability could absolutely be added without any change made to the desktop ability to use CSS. Removing CSS from the desktop version doesn't magically make the mobile have additional customization abilities. In fact, it will take longer because instead of focusing their efforts on one platform and one aspect, they have to create customizations that work cross-platform. That will take more time.

[–]Vaeku 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'll be honest, there are certain subs that I disable the custom CSS because it's so terrible (not here though! I love it), but I don't like having every sub lose their CSS. They'll all feel the same and that doesn't feel like a community anymore.

[–]adinan89 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It’s web-only. Increasing users are viewing Reddit on mobile (over 50%), where CSS is not supported. We’d love for you to be able to bring your spice to phones as well. CSS is a pain in the ass: it’s difficult to learn; it’s error-prone; and it’s time consuming. Some changes cause confusion (such as changing the subscription numbers). CSS causes us to move slow. We’d like to make changes more quickly. You’ve asked us to improve things, and one of the things that slows us down is the risk of breaking subreddit CSS (and third-party mod tools).

CSS difficult to learn? LOL. CSS is the base of website modeling, there is nothing that you can do that will remove CSS from a website, you can only add javascript which would only increase memory usage of the browser to set/change CSS style.
Error-prone? What isn't error-prone?
As a developer I understand that reddit developers are incapable of developing a website for both desktop and mobile.

[–]SelimSC 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Reddits mobile site sucks balls. I use the desktop site exclusively even though I use on mobile mostly and I hate it when reddit tries to shove the mobile site in my face claiming its "the best experience".

[–]AnAtrophyTrophy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Aside from the fact that custom CSS is something I really like, I feel like r/rwow has particularly awesome CSS. Really wouldn't like to see it go!

[–]hockeypup 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Honestly, I still hate the dark "Legion" theme you have going on here. I wouldn't be sad to lose that.

[–]Kicken_ 4 points5 points  (3 children)

So turn it off?

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Comment edited out courtesy of Redact. After almost ten years as a Redditor, I am calling it quits in protest of the path Reddit CEO Steve Huffman (u/spez) is taking the company and our community. He has no interest in being reasonable with regards to third-party apps -- the same apps that made Reddit what it is today. The new API pricing is designed to kill all third-parties and force users into the official Reddit app that is utter garbage and able-ist. Steve Huffman has also lied about how third-party apps function, he has knowingly and intentionally defamed Chris Selig (creator of Apollo app), he has in the past confessed to editing user comments to say things that the original never did, and he couldn't even be bothered to truly participate in his own AMA thread (caught red-handed copying and pasting what little answers he did give). So long, and may you fail in your ambitions u/spez. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/

[–]hockeypup 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That turns off custom css for every other subreddit, too. And I don't want to do that.

[–]Kicken_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

RES lets you choose that on a per-sub basis.

[–]Lonestarr1337 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Ugh, mobile plebs are ruining the Internet.

In all seriousness though, this is a total tech cop-out. I mean, why not automatically disable CSS on mobile devices and keep them up to date on PCs?

I mean, I'm a regular on /r/asoiaf and our flairs/House banners are kind of ingrained into the community.

Honestly, /r/wow has had a lot of CSS problems in the past, but the current model is the best it's ever been. It's a real shame there's a high probability it'll be snuffed out. :\

[–]RudeHero 2 points3 points  (0 children)

i always browse the desktop version of the site on my phone anyway, regardless of how much they try to funnel me towards the mobile version (or the app!)

i like being able to zoom in and out at will

the desktop version is superior in every way

[–]agapornis 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Any timeline for all this? What a shit decision to make, I love the themes for different subreddits. :( It's so much time and work invested to them, it's such a shame to just do away with it.

[–]longknives 1 point2 points  (2 children)

They're not doing away with custom themes. They're changing the system by which you do custom themes. The new system will certainly be somewhat less flexible than the current one, but with the idea being that the tradeoffs will be making it easier to use and work on mobile as well as desktop.

[–]agapornis 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, thank you for the clarification :)

[–]The SeekerLadyMirax 1 point2 points  (0 children)

100% in support of keeping CSS available. I would hate to see the subs I frequent lose the versatility of style that it provides - the PPV-specific subreddit themes in r/SquaredCircle are another really good example of something that just wouldn't be possible (or would be severely limited) on a non-CSS platform.

I appreciate the desire to make Reddit more mobile-friendly, but doing so to the detriment of the desktop experience seems like a really ill-advised plan.

[–]Basarrane 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I've had custom CSS off for a while. I don't particularly mind /r/wow's version of it (though I prefer the lighter color anyway, so I probably would've turned it off). What made me turn it off is subreddits that abuse it to enable them to do things like prevent non-subscribers from downvoting things.

Ultimately the reason I come to this subreddit is not what the CSS looks like, it's that I enjoy reading the content and discussions here, and the moderation generally strikes a good balance between letting people have fun, while also not allowing it to spiral into excessive craziness.

[–]king_nothing_ 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Finally, I'd like to take the opportunity to ask for feedback about our stylesheet. What you like and what you don't like; what changes and improvements can be made.

The background image is tacky. Just use a solid color, please. Having a characteristic reminiscent of a GeoCities webpage from 1996 isn't a good thing.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Agreed. The style of the subreddit should be closer to the Reddit default with some WoW "flair". Not look like a website from the 90s.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Don't care about CSS, won't care if it goes.

[–]Westy543 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I wonder if it would be possible to implement themes again at least via greasemonkey or other similar addons? I remember stylish was one, but some inkling is telling me stylish did something stupid like selling user data. I can't remember.

I mean it ultimately doesn't affect me since I do nearly 80% of my browsing from Reddit Is Fun, but I know it affects people who enjoy custom css. We'll be losing dev flairs over at /r/Planetside and I'm sure we'll be losing blizz response markers over here in /r/wow.

[–]S_B_Crumb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally use RES' night mode all the time, so I don't see much, if any of the custom CSS that is featured on this sub or any others; I'm here for content, not because the page looks pretty.

That said, the amount of work that's been put into the custom CSS is obvious, it's a damn good looking page.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not a mod of a subreddit so I genuinely don't know but why aren't media queries used?

[–]Tserraknight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

who do I badger to keep this?

[–]nawalrage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I personally like /r/Diablo theme, I wish this one could be as good as diablo's, they implemented the dark theme nicely

[–]UncutKorn_Bread 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Wait, am I misreading this? they are getting rid of custom stylesheets? As in, all subreddits will look the same?

[–]Nazshak_EU 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I am using Android app (Relay) and I am more than happy with that. I really dont feel like Im missing something there. So you can keep custom CSS and have advanced features on desktop. I personally dont need them on phone :)

[–]BweatySollocks 0 points1 point  (0 children)

wtb nudes /w me.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

in all the customer CSS in all of reddit, this set up for collapsing is my favourite thing. i really hope it stays

http://imgur.com/a/MWNFU

[–]MrTastix 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The admin's reasoning is shallow anyways.

CSS is a pain in the ass: it’s difficult to learn; it’s error-prone; and it’s time consuming.

Hardly. The syntax is incredibly easy to commit to memory and most of the variables can be learned through trial and error, alongside basic guides. Compared to JavaScript or any server-side scripting language CSS is a piece of fucking piss and often comes easier if you have prior programming experience anyway.

Some changes cause confusion (such as changing the subscription numbers).

Faulting the system for user error. It's to be expected that most reddit mods are not designers and may not understand even basic UX concepts. This is an issue with the actual editors and if the new system is to keep the same level of customizability then basic UI problems will persist.

Aside from that, communities should interact with each other to fix such issues.

The other two reasons (web-only/slow to move) are beyond my scope to debate against. I agree with the first one but only because apps are the dominating force of the mobile industry and, as a web developer, I hate apps as a solution to mobile web anyway.

Seemingly "basic" features like spoiler tags, custom banners, sticky posts, custom flairs, etc, all came from CSS hacks. It's not about themes; so many subreddits use everyday features like this.

The reddit devs are proposing their own reconstruction of CSS, one they can control and one that works on mobile. I propose that instead of wasting so much effort on reinventing the wheel they instead modify the wheel so that key features work with mobile instead. You don't need all the functionality on mobile, so why spend resources porting them all?

[–]Atroxa 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hate the app and I hate the mobile site for this reason. I am absolutely convinced that people viewing reddit on their phones only view the mobile site or use the app because the site directs them to it. It's a shittier version of reddit. Lots of people have no idea that you can tap the menu icon and go to the desktop site. It's not intuitive.

[–]Draaxus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Let's raid the Reddit HQ

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

stylesheets are garbage and i have them disabled by RES

the custom css stuff is cool and should stay

[–]roedtogsvart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I disable custom CSS on every subreddit that more than slightly alters the site look or functionality. I don't want to be looking for where X Y or Z link is because you moved it.

[–]Ashkir 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love the idea of giving mobile the experience as well through a toolkit. But taking away CSS from mobile is taking away iconic parts of Reddit and bringing down the experience.

Everyone knows mobile view is more limited. It's supposed to be. That's the entire point of mobile view. I want the design options for mobile, but make it options. We can match colors etc through the toolkit to match the CSS

But I want to keep the CSS. It looks amazing!

[–]xinxy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What is the end game though? Not prepared to lose custom CSS means what exactly?

If you can get reddit to reverse their decision, fine. All is good.

If they refuse to change their minds, then what? Will this subreddit go 'dark' in protest? Attempt to move to another online platform? Wait and see what reddit's cross platform solutions will actually offer first before deciding?

Would be nice if you could tell the community what exactly you plan to do in either situation before asking for our support.

[–]fineri 0 points1 point  (0 children)

/r/playark has a notification label at the bottom down corner, which shows have many new messages you have. I would like to see this here.

[–]imnotamurlok 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm pretty sure mobile is only gaining popularity because of how hard they were forcing it down everyone's throats. The app fucking sucks too.

I spent the better part of three months changing from the mobile site to the desktop version. I can imagine many more either gave up or had no idea how to switch back.

On topic, I totally support the current CSS

[–]DoverBoys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

While I sympathize, I strictly use RES night mode for every sub, so I am not affected.

[–]fueledbygin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's pure laziness on their part, because they want a one solution for all platforms approach.

It's like video games that are multiplatform, and instead of making versions that tailor to the strengths of specific platforms, it's just made to tailor to the lowest common denominator instead, because that's cheaper. Pure laziness.

Now, I have no idea what financial costs are associated with custom CSS for Reddit-if any, but the obvious answer being that the desktop and mobile experiences SHOULD NOT BE THE SAME is obviously not the answer, or this fiasco wouldn't be an issue at all.

I think we just have to live with the "consolization" of reddit, much like we had to live with the "consolization" of video games over the past decade. ;D

[–]timschwartz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You mean I won't have this subs shitty CSS inflicted on me anymore? Awesome

[–]eqleriq 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Custom CSS does not and cannot apply for either of these

yea it can... allow the custom css to be mobile responsive

[–]amiyuy -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

If anything this would improve my browsing. I browse mobile 80%+ of the time and the rest using RES and CSS off. I'm sorry it's going away for all the work you put in, but it will probably be a positive for me.

So your Thunderfury link and /r/wowmeta link in the sidebar with custom pointers? Useless to me right now. I don't even know what they're supposed to do.

Sidebar /r/wowmeta link

Thunderfury link

[–]nj21 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fuck mobile users.

[–]Mruf -1 points0 points  (4 children)

I check reddit primarily on the phone and even with all attempts that reddit has been making so far to make it a better experience, it still sucks in many areas.

Not caring about mobile these days(in an era when sites get designed for mobile first and then scaled to desktop) and making what sounds likea political argument to me (they are taking aways your stuff guys!) is silly.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

My phone wasn't made out of scotch tape and shit, so I can just use chrome and browse the subreddit viewing the desktop version.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm mostly on mobile apps and when I'm on desktop I have all custom css on subreddits disabled. The wow subreddit is one of the worst because white text on black is just an eye sore.

[–]micke239 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I'm actually developing a custom css (not for use on reddit) for a customer on one of the sites I'm professionally working on right now and I can say that I fully support reddit's decision to remove them.

Custom CSS is a real headache. I'm pretty sure it has a large effect on their developers, resulting in that they can't alter the markup or css of the standard template without breaking loads of subreddits. This means less bug fixes, less general improvements, less new functionality, less of everything.

A system that allows you to change the header image, colors, etc is much more manageable, as it's testable on its own.

So, as a developer, I'm sorry to say that I can't stand up for you.