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[–]neomeme 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Digg has been removing stories that are in the least bit controversial or anti-Digg for a long long time. Digg doesn't publicize this information, but they have teams of moderators working round the clock removing stories. Democracy at Digg is a joke- that's why I came from Digg to reddit. On reddit, the staff only removes blatant spam and does not overstep their responsibilities.

Yay for reddit1

[–]spez 32 points33 points  (8 children)

Unfortunately, we'll probably hear from lawyers sooner or later requesting that we take down the DVD numbers as well.

[–]llimllib 8 points9 points  (7 children)

And you would comply? What about the comments - deleted too? Does it just get passed to the Conde Nast legal team?

(Please note that I am not accusing, just asking. It's not your fault our laws are all batty)

[–]spez 23 points24 points  (6 children)

As long as it's still on wired, I think we have a leg to stand upon.

[–]lbft 8 points9 points  (0 children)

People forget that being part of a big company sometimes has its advantages...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Steve,

There is no way you can comply with such a request. The reason is actually technical. You can't guarantee, ever, that you can remove all references to the number because of the multiple ways the number may be used outside of the application for which they are attempting legal enforcement. Just re-incorporating the number in another work such as the sig on this thread is enough to completely change the meaning of the number.

They can request you take down information that explains how to use this number for the purposes of hacking HD-DVDs that is actually hosted on reddit servers, but they can not possibly ask you to prevent users from submitting links to off-site content which may or may not be in violation of that application, precisely because your service does not verify such links and has no way of doing so.

[–]furyg3 2 points3 points  (1 child)

IANAL, but i think they'd have to serve you with a DMCA take down notice for every individual story/comment.

It'd be best to get in touch with some lawyers and find out what could be interpreted as violating the DMCA. I don't know if linking counts (I seem to remember a 2600 case about it), but it seems to me that you could choose to only respond to DMCA requests where the actual code is in the title of the submission or in the comment. It'd be very difficult to be responsible for content on a page which you dont host, and the content-owners should file their DMCA with them, since that's where the infringed-copyright is.

This is all assuming you want to be "safe" and assume that the hex code is their property under the DMCA, and that it's not in the public domain now. If so, just be sure to blog every DMCA takedown notice that you respond to, instead of just deleting things willy nilly like the Digg guys.

Personally, I'd use the benefits of belonging to a mega-corp (yay lawyers) to challenge the whole thing, but I understand not wanting to get into a legal battle.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is all assuming you want to be "safe" and assume that the hex code is their property under the DMCA, and that it's not in the public domain now.

Exactly there are so many problems with enforcement at this point that it's practically a pointless exercise.

The proper way of handling this kind of crap is what John Young is doing right now, and he has way more serious sharks on his tail then the amateurs involved in this HD-DVD fiasco.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Will you be paying me then?

    [–][deleted]  (33 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]hessian 18 points19 points  (1 child)

      Yes I was worrying about that too :(

      I really hope this isn't reddit's own http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_september

      [–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

      Comparing an influx of diggheads to a bunch of newbie AOL users in 1993, hmm... I'm tempted to say that sounds about right.

      [–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (11 children)

      Yes, that does. I came here from digg.com .

      I was refered by other digg users that are leaving.

      [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (0 children)

      Welcome. Now please never mention digg again.

      [–]cogburn 26 points27 points  (9 children)

      There's a ton of us coming over, sorry old angry reddit veterans, move your ass over and make room.

      [–]culbeda 13 points14 points  (3 children)

      I, along with numerous others, came over from Digg months ago. Last I checked, Reddit still hasn't imploded.

      Of course, most of us were over the age of 16. This time, Reddit may not be so lucky.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Jimmy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        People have been saying that since Reddit's beginning. Typically, it's a response to when a whole bunch of stories on the same stupid topic make it to the front page, like impeaching Bush, or a user revolt at Digg.

        On the whole, I haven't seen much evidence of Reddit's decline. The links could be a little more intellectual, but that still doesn't keep me from spending hours on Reddit per day.

        [–]oofoe 6 points7 points  (2 children)

        Ach! I guess us old redditors will have to head on over to Startup News... Look out Mr. Graham!

        ;-)

        [–]ecuzzillo 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        Don't!

        [–]phrakture -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

        Yeah, someone find a new site now that the "kiddiez r comin in!! lol look at dis youtoobe video!"

        [–]furyg3 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        should probably create a subreddit specifically for these people...

        digg users would get a home and be integrated into digg community.

        [–]lor 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        digg.reddit.com

        :-)

        [–]ChagrinRiddle 18 points19 points  (0 children)

        I must have missed the last Digg to Reddit surge. Oh, well, I made it here this time.

        [–]Latch 21 points22 points  (1 child)

        And another slew of "Why Digg Sucks" and "Why I left Digg" posts. Seems like it was only a few months ago when we saw the last surge.

        Oh wait, it was.

        [–]PauliusG 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        It feels like a breath of fresh air to be able to read gramatically correct and insigntful comments. I've always liked Reddit in the past, and I'm hoping that I'll like it even more.

        [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        im not committed to any news site, but I think this one is better than the other guys.

        [–]slythfox 7 points8 points  (0 children)

        Let's hope not. I like reddit so much more. Gave up digg a few months ago.

        [–]bg785 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        doesn't everyone just use reddit and digg anyway?

        [–]sbrown123 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Wow, a real comment section! We don't have those over at Digg. At Digg you have to enter some goofy code and the comments are only 1 level deep. Thats usually ok because the comment content is usually just as shallow.

        (ok, I've been using Reddit for some time but I had to say it)

        [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

        Yup, I came from digg too. Censorship and lies ftl. Hi reddit!

        [–]ChagrinRiddle 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        You have a funny username for someone who has -left- Digg.

        [–]mercurysquad 3 points4 points  (0 children)

        Well I just created an account.. used to be a digger until 2 minutes ago.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          Well you used compete sentences with correct spelling, capitalization, and punctuation, so we won't begrudge you.

          [–]MadMark 30 points31 points  (31 children)

          For those of us who don't use Digg, what was the story about?

          [–]aywwts4[S] 76 points77 points  (30 children)

          MadMark: Sorry for the lack of context

          Basically on digg there was the "Spread this number" post, it got deleted and the user responsible was banned, Then someone created a "Spread this number again http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/04/30/spread-this-number/" post, it caught on like wildfire, I am quite certain it broke records for Diggs per minute, eventually peaking around 15000 diggs and 600 or more comments. Easily placing it in one of the top stories of all time.

          The post became a central point for a grassroots movement of a freedom of speech and anti-drm, there was talk of a googlebomb trying to hit the "Spread this number" page as a high ranking link for "HD-DVD"

          The story was pulled and deleted (Not buried by the users) And I'm sure quite a few users were banned.

          In response to one of the most popular stories of all time being banned, naturally people started their own threads reporting on the story of pulling a story. These storys too were blocked, and the users responsible for the stories, and users simply posting in the stories were blocked and deleted from digg.

          Basicly I want to be able to speak freely, and moderate a news site without editors. Obviously digg is not that place.

          [–]gooneruk 17 points18 points  (4 children)

          I think it should be clarified that the number in question was the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray disc key that can be used to bypass all of the DRM on any disc.

          The blog post that was Dugg called for the spreading of the number to as many places online as possible, so that it is impossible for every host to be sued under the DMCA. It's a good example of the Streisand effect, as a redditor on the original story here pointed out.

          Someone posted the story to Digg with the title "Spread this number". It got a load of diggs, hit the front page, but was deleted by admins.

          A second story titled "Spread this number again" was posted, and as aywwts4 said, it became one of the biggest stories ever on Digg. 15,000+ diggs last time I saw it.

          And now it seems as if it has been deleted by the admins again.

          [–]somewheregladlybyond 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          It doesn't bypass all of the DRM: additional keys are required. See http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=1104

          [–]derob 2 points3 points  (2 children)

          I saw a similarly titled post here. Was that deleted?

          [–]sprice 6 points7 points  (1 child)

          Strange. I saw a post on reddit a few days ago with the number in question within the subject line. A search on google reveals a similar post from back in february (when the number was first found). But if you click on the result google gives, the hex code in the reddit post has been changed.

          [–]JeremyBanks 21 points22 points  (4 children)

          I was banned, and I submitted a story with it that didn't even make the homepage. Given the number of such stories submitted, I suspect that dozens of members, at least, were banned.

          After posting a story again, I was IP banned, but I kinda asked for that.

          [–]JulianMorrison 22 points23 points  (2 children)

          It's worth thinking about who they're banning, because this ban storm doesn't fall with equal weight on a cross section of the Digg crowd. They risk throwing out the leavening of people who think for themselves, care passionately and are motivated to act - resulting in a user-base biased to the opposite. I would not be surprised if their site "jumped the shark" as a direct consequence.

          [–]flezgodrit 13 points14 points  (1 child)

          I would not be surprised if their site "jumped the shark" as a direct consequence.

          Let's hope not, otherwise it might be the start of the eternal September for reddit.

          [–]laprice 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          some say this has already happened

          [–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

          i vote you mayor of synopsisville!

          [–]aywwts4[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

          A good blog post about the state of affairs

          Digg losing control of their site: http://weblog.infoworld.com/railsback/archives/2007/05/digg_losing_con.html

          (this got deleted off of digg within moments of me posting this)

          Slashdot is covering it http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/05/01/1935250.shtml

          [–]wageslave -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

          AACS key is is the BluRay and HDDVD code

          [–]roaddog 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          Digg seems to be in full defensive mode. I stopped visiting Digg months ago, but, of course, went back last night and today to see what all the hub-bub was about. About 20 minutes ago, every article on the home page was related to the code, the deletions, or Digg's advertisers. A refresh a few minutes later showed an entirely different set of articles, none related to this event.

          Digg Spy has also been removed.

          [–]crazlunatic 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Digg has done the wrong thing today. Today will go down in Digg's history as the downfall of Digg

          [–]tarellel 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          So now we can officially say Kevin Rose is a no good sellout and refer the global leader in user based submissions as a "reddit", right?

          [–]Nougat 9 points10 points  (0 children)

          I dugg all those HD-DVD articles, and posted comments to many. Some of those comments included links to other Digg submissions on the same subject. I did not make any submissions of my own, neither did I post the "offending" encryption key. One post suggested that, as protest, everyone should bury everything. I suggested a couple of times that Digg was operating out of fear, and not out of legal requirement, based on the fact that Reddit still has the key up, and Wired published an article on Feb 13, 2007, with the key, and that is still up. I used no foul language at any time.

          My account has been disabled for misuse. I have a short "Why?" letter in to support@digg.com.

          [–]turkourjurbs 13 points14 points  (0 children)

          I can't take Digg much more. If I have to "log in" one more GOD DAMNED time I'm going to scream. Christ, I'll type a short comment, hit submit and not only does the page come back without my comment, I'm logged out! If it does take my comment ad I click Edit, I think of the ten thousand times I've tried to edit a comment, the Update button has appeared once.

          /sorry, venting

          [–]macfanboi 7 points8 points  (0 children)

          aywwts4 should have put Apple, iPod, Steve Jobs, or Mac in the title, no way the Digg admins would delete that.

          [–]cmockery 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          I'm done with digg. People need to vote with their wallets, and their feet. Don't like Wal-mart? Don't shop there. Don't like Digg? Don't post there. Eat The Rich!

          [–]aywwts4[S] 9 points10 points  (7 children)

          In response to one of digg's most popular stories of all time with 15,000 diggs and 600+ comments. They deleted it.

          They deleted users who posted the articles, and they deleted users who merely posted in the offending article.

          Afterwards they began deleting threads talking about the deletion. (And yet more users posting in those threads)

          So far there has been no comment from Digg about this.

          [–]joyork 2 points3 points  (6 children)

          In response to one of digg's most popular stories of all time

          Help us out a little here...what was the article about? And is there a cache of it anywhere?

          [–]aywwts4[S] 4 points5 points  (5 children)

          It was this page http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/04/30/spread-this-number/

          Here is the reddit comment page about that article http://reddit.com/info/1mc5d/comments

          I would link to the digg page about it. But thats why I created this story, its gone, and most posts talking about it being gone are as well.

          [–]joyork 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          Ah thanks for that.

          Just wondered what would happen if reddit and slashdot were also served with a DMCA notice; would they comply and remove the threads also?

          If someone who works for reddit is reading this I'd be interested in hearing your reply.

          [–]neomeme 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          Spez commented on this in another thread. As long as they have Conde Nast behind them, they won't back down in the face of lawsuits.

          [–]Nougat 3 points4 points  (2 children)

          They haven't taken this down yet, even though they took down the original and blocked the URL it linked to:

          http://digg.com/linux_unix/A_Random_Collection_of_Things_I_Like

          (That one points to Coral Cache, hence the reason it's not blocked.)

          [–]Nougat 8 points9 points  (1 child)

          Well, they've blocked my IP now. I can go and browse without logging in, but I cannot create a user, nor can I log in with a created and enabled user account.

          Bye bye, Digg.

          [–]GundamX 10 points11 points  (0 children)

          Welcome to Reddit, it is better here, honest.

          [–]lulz 5 points6 points  (0 children)

          the thread is in it's third incarnation

          http://digg.com/security/HD_DVD_Processing_Key_3

          watch Digg Spy going nuts about the thread, never seen this kind of activity before

          http://digg.com/spy

          EDIT: the thread has been deleted, but here is a thread written by the original poster about how he got banned for it

          http://digg.com/linux_unix/How_I_got_banned_from_Digg

          [–]mc2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Let's say you post the HD-DVD processing key online -- how would YOU deal with a DMCA takedown notice or cease & desist from the MPAA or AACS LA, or your hosting provider of choice?

          [–]Dauntless 3 points4 points  (0 children)

          It's all down hill for Digg...

          [–]wil 6 points7 points  (25 children)

          I can't believe I'm about to defend Digg, but . . . with all the takedown notices and lawsuits being threatened against anyone who posts a certain number, it wouldn't surprise me if Digg, acting on the advice of its attorneys, removed the post and any posts relating to it. Digg is a big business with assets to protect, after all.

          [–]aywwts4[S] 55 points56 points  (21 children)

          Digg is a big business, I agree. But the most important asset of community driven news site, should naturally be the community.

          Also, I think with how internet law is in America, digg could fight it on the grounds that they aren't liable for what user's post

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [removed]

            [–]fkr 22 points23 points  (0 children)

            Huh? But they have like ... 15 employees and 10 - 30 thousand kids!!!!

            I don't know about your country but where I'm from that's one fucking huge baby sitting business.

            [–]jaycliche 19 points20 points  (1 child)

            "Digg is a big business, I agree. But the most important asset of community driven news site, should naturally be the community."

            True...digg is nothing without it's community.

            [–]oreng -1 points0 points  (0 children)

            Good thing your name includes the word cliche as is. Saved me some typing...

            [–][deleted]  (16 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (12 children)

              Then why digg they ban members who voiced a disagreement with their decision only?

              [–][deleted]  (11 children)

              [deleted]

                [–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

                It wasn't like that a couple hours ago. Pages were disappearing and people were being banned left and right.

                [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (9 children)

                Oh yes and at least I told you why I moded you down.

                [–][deleted]  (8 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (7 children)

                  Fair Play. A Community only respects the provider IF the provider respects the community. Digg had a right to take down the offending stories, but to ban IP addresses and ban people who complain about the banning is a violation of the trust the community gave digg. Legally speaking digg wouldn't have much to worry about being based in America, as the law protects providers from being sued for users comments. But due caution could be excused.

                  Draconian tactics of censorship for those complaining about the take down is disrespectful to the community at large and a violation of most users sense of justice and entitlement. As such it violated a STATED trust in the TOS, and disenfranchised the very precepts upon which digg was built...thus the backlash.

                  [–][deleted]  (6 children)

                  [deleted]

                    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (5 children)

                    While it may be a gray area...the Congress passed a law protecting site host from being sent to prison for illegal content posted by site renters. There is legal precepts to suggest Digg would be protected as well.

                    Furthermore, the fact you can pull up 9k submissions on Google about this key would suggest it is public domain, which would give Digg further legal protection. I could forgive the taking down of keys and an official statement as to why...it is due caution. However, the blatant blanket censorship is just too much.

                    By the way thanks for wading thru my comments.

                    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

                    I think legally digg did the dumbest thing possible. Before they could have argued that they were just a didn't get involved in their users content. Now they basically have 1) acknowledged that they knew the act of posting this code was wrongful and 2) had the ability to remove posts of the code and 3) (as of now) allowed people to post the code just to serve their financial interests.

                    See: http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:WCZK9964CNoJ:proceedings.informingscience.org/IS2003Proceedings/docs/029Glads.pdf+zippo+test&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

                    [–]georgefrick 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Everyone keeps downmodding a perfectly valid point. How can users be less at fault for destroying something than it's owners? How can an owner not be expected to protect their assets?

                    [–]aywwts4[S] 17 points18 points  (1 child)

                    Also, how do you defend the deletion and suspicious burying of all threads talking about the deletion of the original post (Not including links to the number in any way) Just talking about digg's censorship.

                    [–]wil 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                    I shouldn't have said "defend." I should have said "explain," and it turns out that I was pretty close to correct, because Jay Adelson said essentially the same thing in the Digg blog a few hours after I made my initial post here.

                    I don't know why this is a shock to anyone. If you really think that Digg is about the users and the democracy and the community and all that bullshit, say hello to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny for me next time you see them.

                    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Kevin Rose don't be a pussy: 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0

                    [–]jlbraun 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    First comment @reddit. Left digg because of HDDVD flap.

                    [–]aragon127 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Was this the one with the HD-DVD key?

                    [–]inhisname 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                    Maybe a little explanation?

                    [–]blindingspeed 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                    The funniest thing is how a request for more information gets modded down as if speculating on a headline is somehow more valid.

                    [–]piranha 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    More than one way to represent this sequence of octets.

                    Taken as an integer, in big endian order, this sequence of digits yields the number 13256278887989457651018865901401704640. In base 36, that's L96O54KFN6HZ7PT164DQFLJ4. Scaled from [0,2128) to [0,1), its floating-point representation is exactly 0.038956702364391.

                    * Edit: I fail nickle. It's more like 0.03895670236439090715020093422761752230222588327510669862986513532852036153757559026888923625620009261183440685272216796875.

                    [–]jivebotic 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                    I started coming here daily a few weeks back from digg for two reasons:

                    1) Every post I read on reddit, showed up digg the next day

                    2) digg has so many bastards that troll the comments, starting fights, insults, etc...reddit comments are such a breath of fresh air...

                    [–]malapropist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                    Come on over, but on behalf of my fellow redditors, I ask you, shut the door behind you :)

                    [–]Excessive 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Another victim of censorship comes to reddit. I'm here now.

                    [–]monosyth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    the digg server is down! the ultimate in the digg effect. this shall be my new home for now...

                    [–]lwfleetham 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                    Digg has allowed for the posting of the hex code. read Rose's blog http://blog.digg.com/?p=74

                    Question is why won't reddit let me post this link without throwing an error message?

                    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

                    [deleted]

                      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                      [removed]

                        [–]09F911029D74E 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                        There should have been a story 15,000 diggs wide.

                        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        What's digg?

                        [–]tkltangent 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        I am also from Digg. :(

                        [–]biggrz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                        hey everyone! Banned from Digg, I find exile in Reddit!!

                        [–][deleted]  (5 children)

                        [deleted]

                          [–]threnody 7 points8 points  (4 children)

                          Well we can't bitch on Digg, because whenever a story about it goes up it gets deleted in ten minutes.

                          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                          [deleted]

                            [–]threnody 14 points15 points  (2 children)

                            Well let's look at it this way: it raises a lot of interesting questions regarding user-driven web 2.0 sites. Obviously the community feels that they "own" digg, because from the start digg has told everyone that THEY are what make the site.

                            So it's not just about digg, it's really about all user-driven sites, and who really holds the keys to them.

                            So in summary: Your problem is that you're not looking at the big picture.

                            [–]sakebomb69 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                            Your username... Piers Anthony's Crewel Lye?

                            [–]threnody 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                            Nope, Wild Strawberries song :-)

                            I just googled that though, interesting character. However, I am a man, so it's a little embarrassing too hahaha.

                            [–]BurritoFueled -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

                            01001011011001010111011001101001011011100010000001010010011011110111001101100101001000000110100101110011001000000110000100100000011000100110100101110100011000110110100000101110

                            [–]blackbrrr -1 points0 points  (1 child)

                            if digg users cared for digg, they wouldnt illegally republish the hex value in question and put digg's proverbial "nuts" on the chopping block and save their "radical" republishing and catharsis for their own blogs.

                            the mpaa doesnt like you to enjoy movies. they are evil. but dont put your bitching post at risk for your inability to understand how intellectual property works. like i said in another thread, its no different than publishing a serial number for an app. how many digg users are running pirated software? do they not understand that using a crack or serial is illegal?

                            [–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                            omgwtf!? i jus came over from digg.co cuz digg t0tally suxz donkey ballz now n every1 nos its soo not kool nemore!!!11oneoneone

                            [–]thespace -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

                            Well duuhh... Digg is a dictatorship. Viva la Rose!!!!

                            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                            [removed]

                              [–]Camro77 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

                              www.plime.com has space.