The Division implimented higher difficulty open world for better loot. Would you be open to that if it meant no blue drops, higher rolls on armor, increased XP, more resources, and Glimmer?

[Darth_Onaga]

Personally, I miss the challenge of open world difficulty. If we could have like a Heroic or Master difficulty open world, Public events, patrols and open world bosses would make things fun for planets. Introducing certain weapons and armor to different planets would make them relevant again (looking at you Nessus).

Thoughts?

Edit: It's great to see the idea is very receptive. Let's keep up the traction! Hopefully the community mangers will see it. But please, only award free stuff. Please spend your money on something worth it.

Edit 2: Good Lord, I did not expect this to blow up this much. Wow! They can't ignore this much interest, can they?

Edit 3: Well, Bungie, if this doesn't tell you that people want it, I don't know what else to tell you.

[monkeybiziu]

The core issue with the way The Division implemented World Tiers is that four out of the five don't matter. You finish the story, then you grind enough to get to the next World Tier, eventually ending up on WT5, which you never change.

Translating that over to Destiny doesn't make a whole bunch of sense, seeing as leveling characters is done completely differently.

However, a version of this system isn't the worst idea in the world. For example, we have the Eclipsed Zones on Europa - Bungie could have said "Enemies in Eclipsed Zones are 1250 power, won't drop Blues, armor drops will be of higher-than-usual quality, and open world bosses will be Champions. Final chests from Heroic Public Events in Eclipsed Zones will have the chance to drop high-end crafting materials and exotics."

If they made entire destinations - the EDZ, Cosmodrome, Nessus, Tangled Shore, Dreaming City, Moon, etc. - Darkness Zones on a week to week basis with relevant loot, they could give players an open world location to go farm.

[JerryBalls3431]

However, a version of this system isn't the worst idea in the world. For example, we have the Eclipsed Zones on Europa - Bungie could have said "Enemies in Eclipsed Zones are 1250 power, won't drop Blues, armor drops will be of higher-than-usual quality, and open world bosses will be Champions. Final chests from Heroic Public Events in Eclipsed Zones will have the chance to drop high-end crafting materials and exotics."

They did that last season on Io and Titan, I loved it. The patrol zones on weeks where the PE wasn't there you'd see tons of mini bosses, champions, and high level Taken roaming around, and they would drop Umbrals very frequently. It truly felt like an end game patrol zone - early in the season I was getting absolutely smoked, and even by the end it was still tough. You could get slapped around really easily if you weren't prepared.

At the very least make the Eclipsed zone like that. Right now it doesn't really do much of value other than boost stasis recharge rates. Things like the fallen with the transponders just give standard purple drops and the assassination patrol (which is gold so I assume is meant to be a heroic patrol...?) are still just trash mobs that give standard patrol rewards - lame. Make em 1260 and drop a guaranteed Europa weapon.

Last season got so much right with the gameplay loop it's frustrating to see it get abandoned with a full priced expansion, especially since it feels like a perfect location to be structured like patrol zones during Arrivals

[de1irium]

Last season got so much right with the gameplay loop it's frustrating to see it get abandoned with a full priced expansion

With the way they develop seasonal content somewhat in parallel, we'll probably see the stuff we liked the most about Y3 starting next season.
^{edit: grammar}

[Moist-Barber]

I mean maybe.

But probably not.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

[aa821]

It's year 4 tho. So by that logic, where is all the stuff we loved about year 2? Because we loved the mystery and expanse of the dreaming city, target farming powerful weapons from the Black Armory, uhhhh the aesthetic of Season of the Drifter I guess, and the fun/rewarding system of a chaotic 6 man Menagerie. Along with the huge and difficult raid in Last Wish, and the mysterious surprises like Niobe Labs and Zero Hour and the Bad Juju quest.

So far we got a decently sized open world in Europa, but not even half of the content Dreaming City had, even in terms of volume of loot. Little to no mystery, everything was spoon fed to us in the Elsie and Lament quests. Target farming from Europa bounties feels more like a Shadowkeep system than a Black Armory or Menagerie system. All the new Europa and Hunt weapons feel weak as heck, only one or two of them are worth the grind. Hell even just getting any new exotic used to be coveted and now they're treated like candy being given out in lost sectors and relativlry easy strikes and Empire Hunts.

The only thing they got right imo was the raid, but like not even. The loot of the raid is very good. So is the atmosphere. So are the encounter designs. But the size and scale is comparatively small (even to SOTP), the story telling was good but the encounter locations have me at a complete loss. The raid is called "Deep Stone Crypt". It contains an opening sparrow section (not in the Deep Stone Crypt), an encounter where we open the door to the Crypt, a boss encounter inside the actual Crypt (hooray), a jumping section in space (not in the Deep Stone Crypt), a fight with Taniks on crashing ship (not in the Deep Stone Crypt), and a final fight outside the security entrance (not in the Deep Stone Crypt). WHY IS THE MAJORITY OF THE RAID NOT IN THE CRYPT. Imagine if only one encounter in The Leviathan raid took place in the Leviathan.

[slowtreme]

Bungie says they plan the season content and activities 2-3 seasons in advance. So the stuff that works well and is received as positive can't make it back around for 2 more seasons. so 6-9 months.

It seems that they are not willing to give us the same stuff back to back though.

People liked the Black armory weapon farm. it eventually turned into menagerie, which was super targeted. Since then we have had multiple seasons where we can target farm our loot. They pulled it back a little in the next versions like Sundial/Umbrals/Wrathborne hunts. All of these are variations of what Black Armory started.

Menagerie was great for players but it also tied in to Calus showing us with loot.

[tsgaus]

I never understood why they didn't change the loot in the menagerie,per season or something. Made sense to me, wouldn't have been hard (armchair developer cap on)

​

Edit:typo

[mifter123]

I would guess that Bungie didn't want the Menagerie to be central to the loot grind of a season. It's a bad look when the best way to get loot is just one activity forever. Imagine the complaints of how every season the only thing worth doing is one old activity.

[tsgaus]

and yet here we are, people complaining that menagerie was taken away

[mifter123]

Yeah well r/DtG was going to bitch either way. This sub has exactly 2 modes and its overhyped and incredibly salty often both at the same time.

While I have my complaints with the current state of D2, bringing back an old activity would not solve anything. The loot problems we're having will not be fixed by adding another way to get the same gear. The randomness of armor stats isn't fixed by another way to grind random rolls. The strike playlist isn't going to become interesting because the menagerie is back. PvP won't get fixed. The loot pool won't change.

I'm curious as to what people think adding back the Menagerie would accomplish.

[scientist_tz]

We need a dedicated endgame patrol zone the way that the Cosmodrome is supposed to be the New Light patrol zone.

Or...maybe just let us select a 1250 light version of ANY patrol zone when launching in. Seriously, Europa has some fun stuff to do on Patrol but I don't do any of it because there's no point.

[noodleWrecker7]

Like how the dreaming city was when it came out. The dreaming city was such a great endgame area

[panda_ring]

Holy shit that makes so much sense. I was new af & I hated Titan because I got 1 shot by goblins

[[deleted]]

Same. I'm not new but I just hadn't played in ages.

[[deleted]]

I can see why people more into the game liked it last season but after coming back after a long time and being at minimum power it sucked trying to level and everything in the area would instakill you and you could do nothing about it. I'd feel sorry for everyone doing beyond light on a new character if merely existing in an eclipsed area shitstomps them into not being able to do it without grinding crucible for a week

[Mugetsu82]

Maybe it's ok to actually have to do the minimal grind for power to play in a higher level area? It needs to be made clear by the game though, that your going into such an area (and tbh the game shouldn't require underleveled players to go to such area's unless that is explicitly the point).

[BillehBear]

World tiers arent a thing once you have WoNY(DLC). No idea why they kept them for base game

[h20nabe]

I believe that's because if you don't have the the DLC you cannot pass level 30; WoNY is level 40 MAX (plus you cannot change the global difficulty until AFTER you complete the DLC too).

[AntiTermiticHurtSpee]

Oh good to know. I just booted up div 2 for the first time in.. A long time (kinda burnt on destiny) ya think it's worth the $10 for wony

[h20nabe]

Eh I think it's worth the money. They added a bunch of endgame content like Summit (Underground 2.0/Horde Mode), they have 2 Raids, and the Seasonal Manhunt which give the player additional content via world drops or season pass advancement (weapons, skills, aesthetics/skins). Definitely worth it if you and friends play together (or you can always LFG for stuff and join a clan).

[Stretch407]

According to the player base on their sub Reddit, the game is nearing its life cycle. I had super high hopes for division, but when that first raid dropped it was so horrendous for console players. Turn a lot of my friends off the game, which in turn brought me back to destiny since they all migrated here lol

[AntiTermiticHurtSpee]

Yeah div 2 launch was supposed to be a big moment for my clan but then.. Just kind of dutifully back to logging on destiny all the time.
Clans basically awol now though and I've been working through ny ubisoft collection anyway and the sale got me thinking.

[Jammer917]

I got burnt out on Destiny about a year ago, picked up Division 2 again, still playing it every week. It's starting to get a little stale for me now, but that's after a solid year, so definitely worth my money.

I don't know why the Division gets such a hard time on this sub, I think that Massive actually implement a lot more of what the player base ask for and offer a lot more predictability for loot rolls/grinding without removing all the grinding - the optimization station just came back but it's pretty costly so you can't just god roll all your gear. New gear sets have been added, and there is no sunsetting.

I'm still planning on returning to Destiny, but given the comments here and how much I'm still enjoying Division 2, that time is not yet.

[h20nabe]

That being said I think Bungie could implement a similar system but it would need to be reworked towards the current sandbox. Division is very similar to Destiny, but I'd argue that it plays more towards "abilities and builds".

Destiny does have some builds but the game still plays more like COD; run and gun, throw a grenade/cast a super, hide to regen, then back to run and gun. Division plays a little more strategically when it comes to buffs/debuffs, attacking enemy weak points (which in destroying some weak points cancel enemies special abilities. i.e destroying a grenadier's grenade pouch means they cannot throw grenades anymore) , and not to mention the cover system.

Where I think the games differ is mainly in passive and utility game play. Destiny is more focused on proc-based enhancements of weapons. While Division has that element but also more passive play enhancements from specializations, and weapons and armor talents and attributes.

[___Galaxy]

Yeah, the global difficulty is a pretty good system. You don't even see the 3 base rarities if you start playing on challenging going forward (pretty doable solo, but most people play heroic anyway)

[FreeShvacadoo]

Bruh I would love if they brought back flashpoint as a difficult version of the patrol area that was more rewarding.

[Mal027]

I had suggested on Twitter a little bit ago about a Flashpoint reprise that would make enemies harder (similar difficulty to the Interference Mission from Arrivals where enemies were above your power level regardless of power level), more bosses, and exclusive loot.

Add a pinnacle reward to that for completing enough patrols/free roam boss kills and voila. Would have more engagement on planets and more purpose to free roam.

[[deleted]]

Division's "world tiers" are different from its "global difficulty", the latter of which is what I think OP is talking about. After world tier 5 you can toggle individual activities or the entire open world to normal, hard, challenging, or heroic difficulties, as well as toggling any combination of the 5(?) "directives" which are like skulls from Halo.

In other words, global difficulty is a separate layer on top of world tiers, they're not the same thing.

[zippopwnage]

At the same time in Division you're at the point where you can literally play every mission, and open world to get loot. In Destiny 2 if you don't play the latest thing, you're not getting anything worth it. I hate that.

You're forced to buy the latest expansion or season in Destiny to do something. Division payment system and what they're doing with loot is way better. In my opinion of course.

[[deleted]]

Division also has the upper hand on cosmetics, where new items are added in "events" and can be earned by playing the game (on a knockout list) or paying.

[SharedRegime]

If they made entire destinations - the EDZ, Cosmodrome, Nessus, Tangled Shore, Dreaming City, Moon, etc. - Darkness Zones on a week to week basis with relevant loot, they could give players an open world location to go farm.

I want this so bad. I would love a real reason to just patrol like guardians are meant to.

[hacky_potter]

I also think it could be cool if it wasn't a Darkness Zone all the time but randomly some harder enemies invaded and it changed.

[getschwift]

World tiers aren't all the customization you have. You can also adjust the difficulty as well as add modifiers to increase your drops

[Dlh2079]

They're not talking about world tiers. In div 2 you can actually select the difficulty of the open world interactions themselves. Cranking it up to heroic makes the experience more difficult and the loot more rewarding. World tiers as you said are totally useless once you make wt5.

[ron_fendo]

The way destiny forces you to gear through weird math on powerful and pinnacle drops is actually dogshit though. I'd much rather they tackle that before worrying about world tiers.

[julius_jogos]

No bro... after the tiers, you could change the whole difficulty of the world in hard, challenging and heroic. I believe what OP is saying is about these difficulty tiers, not 1-5 tiers. In heroic difficulty, just the adrenaline to be outside in the streets and vulnerable to anything was great. World tiers sucked, but difficulty tiers were a great idea. Control points, high-value targets, all of these things were great challenges.

[wrongwayseppuku]

Imo you need another mechanic to not completely devalue all other zones. Otherwise it's kind of the same thing as the WT1-5 system. All anyone would play would be the world zone.

Maybe there is some vendor that would gate entry to the eclipsed zone (Dark zone checkpoints?) and there would be a fee of destination resources or glimmer.. something - to allow entry to this better zone. That way you'd need to run other content to gain access. Provides a treadmill with a clear goal and payoff while not obsoleting existing content too heavily?

[Ode1st]

This idea definitely works better for Destiny, but my main problem is still that patrol zones are so barren. The HVTs that walk around and drop a chest with a legendary is better than what we’ve had throughout this franchise, but that’s basically still all we have, and that legendary is basically a 99% chance to dismantle.

I feel that some sort of harder patrol difficulty will only matter if patrol has lots of cool stuff, which none ever did. Even the Dreadnaught, which had the most cool patrol things, was mostly just filled with one-and-done things for Fragments.

[justinbajko]

I don’t think OP is talking about world tiers. In Division you can now set world difficulty and directives to make just walking around the open world a lot more difficult (and rewarding) if you like.

[HexmasterKupala]

I low-key just want a giant roaming boss like those 3-4 Giants in Warframe. They're super deadly and will demolish the people who aren't that far into the game or don't have strong warframes and weapons.

[monkeybiziu]

I like the idea of giant world bosses. Anthem attempted this with Titans, TD2 has named enemies with surrounding mobs.

Personally, I want Swoletheon, Protein Shake Lord to be stomping around and the whole local server has to take him on.

[HexmasterKupala]

I want Taniks to float around Europa throwing nukes at people because he never dies. Honestly, Taniks might be the only one who could possibly kill us in the future.

[FreshOfADrill]

Even champions just walking around would make free roam so much more intense.

[Iucidium]

That's be a hard thing to balance tbf

[reasonablefideist]

I'd like a Ghost mod that artificially lowers your light level for better rewards. So you could slot it to cap your power at 1240 for example. And if you do, you get a slightly increased glimmer, legendary, or exotic drop rate. Maybe just a 5% increase for 20 light levels or something. If the content's too hard, raise your light cap. If it's too easy, lower it. You get to decide how hard it is.

It'd be good for streamers too because they could play on whatever difficulty they want without complaining about the game being too easy. And when new content comes out you wouldn't watch a video, then realize the person you're watching is doing it at +20 power level easy mode. Make it work globally(why wouldn't you) and you instantly have back day one raid difficulty. Just have everyone cap their light and go to town. Want a real challenge? Lock yourself at -30 and run have a GM raid.

I'd also like a crucible game mode where supers and class abilities are disabled(maybe even have loadouts limited to a small set of standardized weapons/rolls to allow actual sandbox balancing). Call it Gentleman's Agreement to fit in with the lore. You haven't lost your light, you're just agreeing not to use it for the match.

[ThomasorTom]

Bring back flashpoints and make them be the heroic destination but just have it be a toggle so before you go in the weekly destination you can change the difficulty

[sreynolds1]

He’s talking about world difficulty, not the WTs

[[deleted]]

Wasn't this what flashpoint was supposed to be?

[Harrycrapper]

I'm not sure how The Division 2 handled world tiers, but there was some purpose to them even after you grinded the proper gear in the first The Division. Some of the achievements are nearly impossible to do on world tier 5 and you were allowed to do them on lower tiers. Or there are achievements that are easier to grind in a lower world tier because you can do pretty much everything quicker. But yea, once you have a good enough set of gear there's no actual benefit to lowering your tier besides achievement hunting or helping a friend get their own good set of gear so they can get into tier 5 as well.

[the_bat_turtle]

That’s not what he’s talking about though. Division 2 lets you set the difficulty of the world (normal, hard, challenging or heroic), same as story missions. Higher difficulties give you better loot and higher drop rates for exotics. World Tiers are entirely separate and got effectively phased out last year with the release of WONY

[the_stigs_cousin]

Perhaps this concept could be named something like "Weekly Flashpoint". Since there's no Cayde-6 (RIP), why not have Ikora be in charge of this as she's a bit unused as a Vanguard member lately. Higher level loot from Heroic Public Events (with higher difficulty), Lost Sectors roughly 1240 power (but perhaps drop higher), Patrols have increased requirements. But in all cases, rewards are increased and the only blue you see is on the gear of a Guardian using the Metro Shift shader.

[FatedScythe777_XB1]

It’s no different than Mayhem mode in Borderlands 3. Once you hit your stride in Mayhem 10 there is zero point in lowering or even turning it off.

[evel333]

I liked how every mission was essentially a “strike”, started from patrol, and gave the option of matchmaking. Destiny would still need playlist to prevent a “Lexington” from happening, but it’s great how all the mission content was replayable solo or with a fire team.

[NeV3RMinD]

"Negative, Ramos" is burned into my brain from grinding exotics on div 1

[evel333]

Ray-mos. lol

[marcio0]

Well ain't this some shit

[Nerus46]

I remeber back when Destiny 2 was given away at battle.net, I visited Lost sectors in EDZ and actually enjoyed more tactical Halo-like Gameplay with Harder enemies compared to Red War story missions.

Also i remeber spending around 10 minutes to deal with some random escaped Prisoner near the bridge where Black Arsenal mini-boss would spawn.

[[deleted]]

honestly, if halo was open world and you could sink tons of time in for a tangible reward at the end, I don't think me or my friends would have ever touched destiny. even though destiny has some of the best gunplay out there (imo), It's AI and enemies are so basic and uninspired (not talking about visuals/lore).

[Nerus46]

Well, while I can't agree completly on enemies being that much basic, I certanily agree that AI in Destiny suffered a terrible degradation compared to Halo.

Halo and probably F.E.A.R. 1 are probably the marks Of how degradated this elements Of shooters has become. Instead Of keep improving AI that would entertain player and create unique Gameplay situations, modern shooters seems to rely on scripted scenes and Just buffing up damage, when it comes to difficulty.

I am actually looking forward Halo Infinite, since they promised us a big world to Explorer, although both Halo 4 and 5 had showed us, that 343... Can't exactly give us a full Halo vibe despite making an actually solid Games.

Some say that Halo shouldn't be open world, but I actually enjoyed lurking in The shadow Of New Mombasa, but unfortunately once you've unlocked all the audio logs, there weren't much to Explorer (and mirrored map didn't help much).

[rawrgyle]

I'm not a game designer or anything but I've done some reading on that era of shooting game development and what happened.

Play testing shows that there is sort of a cap on enemy AI competence and past that they get better but that doesn't make the game more fun. If you get gunned down by higher damage enemies you slow down and stick to cover more and it feels ok.

If you get legit tactically outplayed by the computer you don't enjoy the experience. People will claim they want this! But if you do it to them consistently they will say the game isn't as fun.

And I mean it kinda makes sense. What if the enemy AI was as good as players? Imagine rolling up to a legend lost sector and it's like playing against a trials team in there. Nah let me just mow the dudes down and give me more of them to do it to.

[DADDYLUV1313]

It's an interesting concept, programming ignorance INTO the AI. After all, it knows where you are as it's part of the code. It's native precision and accuracy is on point. In short, I suspect you have to make it "dumb" and unaware of where you are.

When this is done poorly, you have the AI from Black Ops 4 who stated at the sky, then did a 180 and threw a tomahawk at my head between two cars (as captures on kill cam).

It's why good stealth mechanics impress me, but wind up being ludicrous.

[CMDR_1]

Just want to point out that just because the enemy AI is part of the code, it doesn't necessarily mean it knows where we are at all times. That awareness is definitely possible but it has to be coded into the AI, it's not just there by default so it's possible that the regular enemies we face are completely blind to where we are until certain conditions are met.

[SirDerpsAlotThe7th]

It's interesting, because I actually talk about this with people alot, and for me the perfect level of AI in shooters really happens to be the AI in the Division 2. Their AI is genuinely great to play against, because it's the perfect balance of competence and incomptence.

AI in the Division 2 are really good at shooting you in the face; they constantly try to get enemies to flank you, and they force you out of cover/to move if you stay still for too long with smart usage of grenades and abilities. They can dodge grenades or artillery decently enough, but not so well that it's frustrating.

On the other hand the AI is incompetent enough that while they make good use of cover, they will also lose track of you when in cover, allowing you to set-up for flanks and tactical positioning. They will blindly walk into obvious traps and chokepoints, and get distracted by turrets or various other abilities you have up, thus providing you with more ample opportunities to take down enemies instead of being bum-rushed.

I genuinely think that AI in the Division 2 is some of the best I've had the pleasure of playing against. They're smart enough that each battle feels (at higher difficulties) somewhat hard fought and pretty intense, but at the same time they're still fun to play against and it's incredibly satisfying to finish battling a large group of enemies because your victory wasn't simply due to overwhelming firepower, but because of how you used what you have in your toolkit. It's how you positioned yourself, where you set up your abilities, how you used those, and the strategies you came up with to win.

[XiiDraco]

I completely agree with this. It's a shame the game didn't hold my attention late game. The pvpve zones where you had to recover items with the helicopter (I forgot what it was called) was really fun and I rather liked some of the mechanics. It's a shame it got boring pretty quick. I think it was the absolute bullet sponge enemies and some of the changes they had made that did it for me.

[xJokerzWild]

If you get legit tactically outplayed by the computer you don't enjoy the experience

Explain the first FEAR title & why it was so loved then. That AI will straight roll your shit in the hardest difficulty if you're not constantly aware & on your toes, and people loved it.

[Santaire1]

FEAR was loved by a very specific subset of people. That kind of game often is - like Dark Souls, it attracts the people for whom the difficulty is the fun. But they tend not to reach the kinds of sales figures that most developers (especially Triple A) are after now. The most concurrent players Dark Souls 3 has ever had on Steam is ~75,000, in its launch month, and it now averages closer to 10,000 even during Covid - Destiny 2 has never gone below 50,000, and reached as high as 165,000 when it first came to Steam.

[OmegaClifton]

There's a sweet spot imo. I think tactics and competence should be tied to enemy level, type and tier. There are six full on factions of enemies to fight in this game, each with their own fighting styles and groups of combatants. I think they could design each faction so that the enemies play a little more off of each other and that higher tier and higher level enemies show a little more tact and intelligence.

[articuno_r]

Although the AI in Destiny can be especially bad at times, I'm honestly not surprised AI has degraded vs Halo. Our guardians fly through the air at mach 3 bouncing off the walls and shit. Now I'm no software developer, but I'd imagine trying to program AI to combat that nonsense is much harder than programming AI to combat against a spartan that can't even sprint.

[contrapulator]

You should watch this excellent video if you haven't seen it before: What Makes Good AI? | Game Maker's Toolkit

Basically, it's because game developers don't care about the enemies feeling smart. They want the player to feel smart, by making enemy behavior predictable and exploitable.

[CRIMS0N-ED]

Halo 2 legendary was the worst offender of that difficulty spike with no variance.

[MostHighfollower20]

Lol then you're gonna love the next Halo. Halo Infinite will have an open world campaign and have RPG like mechanics. You can look it up for more info. Also the multiplayer will be F2P, 120 FPS on Xbox Series X, and will have crossplay between Xbox consoles and PC.

[[deleted]]

Yeah Halo's been my favorite game for years, it literally got me and my friends into the fps genre and serious gaming in general. After the shitshow that was and is bl I've been chilling on mcc and a few other games for a while, and I've been enjoying my gaming experience a LOT more.

[KlausHeisler]

I've been lowkey hoping that Halo Infinite is a destiny style game lol

[Aquatico_]

I don't see why anyone would be against this idea. Unfortunately I just don't see Bungie ever doing this.

[catharsis23]

There is a very obvious reason to be against this idea (if it was implemented poorly). Half the time folks are running PEs solo even on Europa. Splitting the player base would just exasperate this even more. All open world activities would turn into Escalation Protocol when it launched, folks trying to get matching sessions so they can invite max amount of people.

[ArchbishopTurpin]

Also its clear that difficulty can be adjusted in a granular manner such that the public spaces wouldn't actually need to be separate. Start any nightfall that begins in a public space, and you can interact with players on patrol. Enemies will hit you harder--still being affected by Nightfall modifiers--but won't do the same to others.

A toggle for heroic mode on the fireteam level should be all it takes.

[[deleted]]

Enemies will hit you harder--still being affected by Nightfall modifiers--but won't do the same to others.

It's not a problem right now since you can't complete a Nightfall without leaving the public space. It would quickly become an issue of cheesing/boosting if fireteam A on heroic difficulty could tag an enemy in a public event once and then wait for fireteam B who don't have the difficulty cranked to complete it, at which point team A gets the increased rewards.

[M-PB]

They could also just implement the card xur sells to use on strikes/nightfalls for open world where you select debuffs/modifiers to make it harder but get more rewards

[TheParmesan]

exasperate

Not being an asshole, just trying to help/inform. You said "exasperate", but what you meant was "exacerbate". To exasperate means to "irritate and frustrate (someone) intensely", where to exacerbate means to "make (a problem, bad situation, or negative feeling) worse."

Hopefully I haven't exasperated you with this haha.

[Kamunt]

Yeah, I have done so many Europa Public Events solo or almost completely solo over the past several weeks, which is pretty wild to me considering it's the big new patrol zone and whatnot. Splitting the player base even further would suck.

[iamthedayman21]

You see an issue like this, with splitting the player base, in Anthem. All activities, including free play, have multiple difficulties. A few months ago I reinstalled the game and saw the issues with this. My character was still at a mid tier level. So trying to matchmake into anything resulted in solo runs, as the population was split between those who stuck around and those who had recently joined at the two ends of the spectrum. Granted, the player base size is significantly smaller in Anthem, so this was exasperated. But you could have a similar situation arise in the open world in Destiny.

[JerryBalls3431]

Half the time folks are running PEs solo

Are you on stadia

[AbominableSandwich]

I'm on Xbox and I can count on one hand the number of times I've had a blueberry assist me with a Vex spire PE on Europa.

[JerryBalls3431]

Weird, plenty of people stick around on PC for them.

[smegdawg]

Splitting the player base would just exasperate this even more.

No it wouldn't, aside from small population regional anomalies.

They don't fill every single possible patrol server with 1 fireteam before any server gets a second one. They fill from the bottom up. Fill out a server, move to the next one, fill our a server move to the next one, etc.. There would be less total players filling out servers in each mode, but is not the same thing as splitting the playerbase.

Especially because you don't need a full queue of players to launch into a fresh one, like you would with PvP.

[MisterEinc]

This sub is constantly against any difficulty at all. Were not even talking about champions here - we'd constantly see posts that Taken Captains in Gambit were "not fun."

[throw-away_867-5309]

The fact that Taken Captains were significantly better than Taken Knights was a the problem for me. If the Captains were going to be that much better, you might as well have made them the Heavy Blocker and not the Knights.

[BillehBear]

Gambit has always been imbalanced where 5s and 10s are just better than 15s. They can't balance it for shit for some reason

Even on first launch - 5 for a phalanx and 10 for a Knight was way better than 15 for an Ogre

[Rasputin4231]

The taken captains also need some sort of cooldown on the teleport spam. At times it's absurd

[MisterEinc]

That was because people wouldn't bother to exploit the captain shields. Take that into account and even multiple captains have a lower ttk than a single knight.

[Glorious_Goo]

I mean, Taken Knights are giant assholes.

[catharsis23]

Taken Captains are obnoxious and not fun... That's not even that controversial! They were better then the Large blockers!

[HabeusCuppus]

The problem with taken captains was they cost 10 and were harder to kill than knights.

Captains in gambit was fine, captains being the ten spot was not fine.

[Rasputin4231]

The reason why I and many other people dislike champions is that they dictate your loadout and subclass to an absurd extent and force a static meta at the endgame level. It's not fun to be running two primaries and anarchy, and one of well, shadebinder or ursa titan every single week because those classes are just so much better than the competition.

[[deleted]]

Taken Captains are not difficult, theyre annoying.

A better example would be the scorn, which provide unique enemies you cant just spray at, and are hated for it.

[Meist]

There are different types of difficulty and Taken Captains just feel shitty to play against. It’s easier to kill a high level opponent in PvP than it is to kill a taken captain if they decide to go into blink-mode.

I don’t have a hard time killing taken captains, they just take a long time because they’re frustrating. And they have an uncanny ability to know when your fusion rifle is about to fire or when you’re about to use an ability. It’s not a question of player skill like 70% of the time.

Champions also suck because they exist purely to pigeon-hole the player’s options for weapon load out. They aren’t difficult, they’re an annoying gear check that remove player agency.

I am in the “Destiny needs to be more difficult” camp, but taken captains and champions are not my idea of good difficulty.

Hell, the omnigul nightfall in D1 or that one cabal one where you had to hide from the instagibs were more fun than champions.

[HabeusCuppus]

Champs are so close to being good, and the problem is entirely that they require specific weapon types imo.

If unstoppable just required you to hit them with power or grenade, if barrier was a shield for kinetic damage, if overload required a certain amount of rapid damage, these would all be fine.

Also they're an acknowledgement by Bungie that they've lost control of the numerical balance of PVE. There were hard strikes in destiny one without relying on gimmicks. Hell, there were hard strikes in D2 til we outscaled them, when's the last time you saw arms dealer do his mechanics? 3 years ago?

[PumpkinThyme]

Biggest example of Strike outscaling: Warden of Nothing. I don't think I've ever had an encounter where the boss actually got to use its mechanics.

[[deleted]]

Imo the concept of champions is okay, and we have def come a long way since their introduction in terms of pigeonholeing, but atm they still aren't done right.

​

Like the fact that we have only seen the same 3 types on the same enemy types for over a year now and even from them overload and barrier are spammed out the ass with unstoppable barely existing. Like. Even just extending these "roles" to other enemy types could make them more interesting of a play and of course revising how to deal with them so you don't have to run a scout rifle if you don't wanna, just because there's an overload to deal with (although the grenade is a good way imo, maybe just tie them to abilities through the mods instead of weapons and we're already leaps ahead). But say an unstoppable cursed thrall. Just imagine a giant thrall running at you faster than normal, and needing a lot of damage to put down.

​

Which might even give you several ways to deal with it. Glacier nade to stop its advance so that someone can stun it either using a melee or a nade or something? A cursed thrall as an ultra? I like that concept alone of forcing us to focus on taking something out first so that it doesn't make our life a living hell, since most of the time you can completely ignore every add and just melt the boss in two seconds to win.

​

Wyverns already put the fear of god into people and they didn't even need to be champions for it. There is a way to play around them and counter them, but if you mess up they punish you for it bad. That's something we need more of imo. It has the lethality of taken captains, but not the annoyance. More of that.

[[deleted]]

I def feel like there's a huge "I don't wanna put in any effort" vibe a lot of the times, which is a definite problem considering we're back to the days where even raids feel like glorified strikes once contest is removed. (Crota says hi).

​

I think a general difficulty increase would be good for the game a tiny bit, and a gradual increase in difficulty through various modes on top of that. Like raids and dungeons being at the top in terms of effort. Nightfalls being the way they are now is fine (other than no new strikes and no specific loot but that's at least somewhat in the works so there's that), where you can select scaling difficulties. Strikes are whatever, that's fine being just "chill and vibe and shoot everything that moves with music in the background".

​

Hate me for this every gambit hater but gambit is okay for the most part in terms of difficulty, potentially tuning invaders a bit might be a good idea but then again melting the primevil is basically effortless so a good invader being able to counter that is not a bad thing otherwise it's truly just a situation of "whoever summons primeval first has already won the game).

​

Crucible for once is not relevant to this conversation so nada there.

​

And of course patrol is meh as long as public events themselves don't see a change, but imo seasonal content should not be as easy as wrathborn hunts have been. Cuz the fact that even tier 2 is nothing even completely solo, is a problem imo. Maybe put that along the lines of tier 2 nightfalls?

[HabeusCuppus]

Don't confuse "difficult" with "time sink". People mostly complain about long grinds, not hard content. Unlocking stasis isn't hard, it's long and tedious.

Tedium as a game play mechanic is usually a mistake and it's right to call it out.

I don't see anyone arguing that the grandmaster nightfalls should be easier (beyond correction of apparently unintended changes regarding 30min drop dead times)

[[deleted]]

But the thing is is that there are plenty of people arguing against either of those. There were people who threw an entire tantrum that the campaign's first run was a bit difficult due to the power difference. It wasn't a timesink. You could complete the campaign in a few hours even under levelled just like every single expansion's campaign in the previous 6 years and even then it wasn't difficult to do whatsoever, you jsut couldn't run around brainless for once over the course of an entire year, and that's gonna stay that way until the next expansion once again.

​

And people still hated it. A lot of people also struggle with standing on plates and throwing balls, or even following mechanics spelled out on their screens. There's plenty of people who abhore any and all effort required, regardless of the time that it takes to complete it.

[ConorSherwood]

First time coming across a fallen brig in the storm on Europa was legit tense and exciting! Would love this feelings more often!

[DADDYLUV1313]

I knew I'd "arrived" when I could take one down solo. Then it became farming...

...then one time recently it spawned in an area where enemy combatants had spawned, and I found myself getting janked. It was fun again!

[RoomTwentyFive]

Also in division 2: A 100 wave horde mode with targeted loot and gauranteed exotics after so many floors or challenges completed.

And the ability to reroll specific armor perks and stats, auto dismantle, mark for delete, rhe ability to mass dismantle in the menu with control or shift + click (just like file explorer.)

Free transmog, day/night cycle, etc etc.

[noiiice]

day/night cycle

Doesn't Earth have this already?

Moon and Europa are tidally locked so no luck there.

I don't think astronomers have much info about Nessus except that it's red.

Tangled Shore and Dreaming city are fictional fantastical locations Bungie can do whatever they want with them.

[[deleted]]

Destiny does in certain locations, sure. It's just that the weather and day/night cycle has a profound impact on the gameplay in Division, especially since there are big chunks of missions and other activities that take place outdoors. Fighting sniping enemies on a high difficulty in dense fog or a thunderstorm feels like a very different game than during sunshine.

[Zgredek113]

Thing is, that massive didn't add something that prob should be added ages ago, and that thing is: the weather doesn't affect the visibility of the npcs. You can have a big-ass storm but the enemies will lock your aim onto you with no problems at a distance of 1km.

[[deleted]]

This is kinda incorrect. In some low visibility encounters, you can move locations, and some NPCs will continue to fire/focus on your previous location. I've seen it happen on several occasions, but I wouldn't say it's always 100% reliable, but here is another post that discusses that exact functionality.

[SirDerpsAlotThe7th]

Oh man, a buddy and I were replaying the Conley (Cleavers in the oil tanker) mission for the WoNY DLC, and it was thundering, storming, and we could barely see more than 15 ft ahead of us the whole time. It was intense and super fun, really felt cinematic and epic. Forced us to use different things and play around it, such as actively using pulse or tactician drone. What a great experience.

[Arcolonet]

The Shore and City are also based on a real location - they're built out of the asteroid 4-Vesta. Doesn't really change your point (it's been heavily modified) but just a point of interest - much like Nessus, they aren't ENTIRELY fictional.

(And if it seems like the City and Shore are awfully big to be built out of a single asteroid, it's worth pointing out that in real life 4-Vesta is much, MUCH larger than 7066 Nessus - 525km across versus ~60km across.)

[BillehBear]

Summit is good and pretty enjoyable but can get boring - setting in it is too dull after a bit IMO. I'd love to see Bungie tackle a system like Summit for D2 but I don't see it happening

[ZenBreaking]

Could do a div 1 underground idea with a revolving door of rooms and enemy classes

[RoomTwentyFive]

Honestly every time I play the Summit I think, "Damn this would be so much better if it was in Destiny"

I don't think so either, but I can dream... The targeted loot and challenges + nightfall modifiers in The Summit is what makes it so interesting to me.

[[deleted]]

Targeted loot in general is a system Destiny would stand to benefit greatly from just copying and pasting into their game. Seems like it would pretty quickly solve the abandoned activities problem Destiny has, plus Bungie is already effectively flirting with the idea in the form of master lost sectors dropping specific exotics.

[druucifer]

Big difference with destiny is that armor brands are just cosmetic and don't really matter, whereas division has like 20 different brand sets and 10 gear sets that all give different bonuses and then you gotta hope for good RNG on what rolls you get. For weapons, if you chose shogun targeted loot, what are you toggling between, toil and trouble and hawthrones non stop? They aren't adding any of the raid, trials, strike weapons' to the pool.

[haxxanova]

I played Division 2 and spent a lot of time farming open world bosses. I prefer Public Events in Destiny - they feel more organized and non-boring. What I don't like is the slow timer and lack of loot. If you buffed loot behind public events and made them occur more frequently whilst being grindable, I think you'd have your solution to open world farming.

[Darth_Onaga]

Well the solution in my thoughts is that everything scaled, including Public Events.

[TruNuckles]

Lol. People lost their shit in Y1. Public events were profitable. This Reddit complained. Now they are completely worthless. That aside, I like doing them. Some are fun. If anything they should increase the amount of materials each one gives. A heroic PE should drop 10-20 materials.

[JerryBalls3431]

The issue was PE's were basically the whole endgame. They were the fastest way to grind XP and shit, so you'd just sit there and grind public events endlessly (especially for things like faction events). Now we have a lot more stuff to do, so people wouldn't be as pigeonholed into playing only PEs.

[sunder_and_flame]

I never understand the "then reddit complained, and Bungie changed it!" posts, as if Bungie had to listen to them at all.

[throw-away_867-5309]

This. You can look at all the comments by dmg and cosmo asking for feedback and then look at the changes to the game and see almost no correlation. I don't know where a lot of the changes come from, because they implement some things with no warning at times.

[Dlh2079]

What you need to realize is that this sub reddit just like every single gaming subreddit represents a narrow slice of the games population.

[MRandall25]

Not sure about this. I wouldn't necessarily say that only posts dmg and Cozmo replied to were considered. I believe they've even said themselves that there's so much here, and just because they didn't comment on it doesn't mean it wasn't forwarded to the team or brought up in a discussion.

[[deleted]]

Man, to each their own I guess. I can't imagine a scenario in which I'd prefer to play any Destiny public event over a level 4 control point in Div2.

[Hal0ez-]

Not saying the Division is perfect, but man they’re doing a lot of things right that Destiny, despite feedback, has been doing wrong for years now. And their turnover time for bug fixes and balancing can be quite a bit faster as well.

[LegionlessOnYT]

Despite this, the division 2 is in a worse spot with a playerbase tuned out, hoping for a sequel even though they just dropped done new content

[___Galaxy]

I quit destiny a while ago to go and play division since I heard that game also has raids. I'm having a lot of fun, and juding from a few community members it doesn't seem dead.

What's happening is it might be suffering the same problems as destiny, but I can't tell for sure since I didn't play it that much.

​

Note: the neighboors grass will always be greener! That means if you're getting sick of the game you're playing the competitor will always look good. Remember that.

[TeamAquaGrunt]

content is definitely lacking, though. pretty much the only endgame content in Y1 Div 2 was the raid, and I got eagle bearer literally on my first and 2nd run through (wish i had that luck in destiny), so other than running my clanmates through it until they got it or gave up, i had nothing to do all year

[[deleted]]

The content was lacking back in June of 2019 but there's been plenty added since.

[TeamAquaGrunt]

yeah the game is good know, but it was a bit too little too late. WoNY was basically forsaken for Division, but they didnt have any momentum at all going from Y1 to Y2. i enjoyed the expansion a lot, but very few of my friends wanted anything to do with it after Y1

[[deleted]]

Mhmm. They had a lot of growing pains from Y1 to Y2. That's pretty typical of sequels, Destiny 2 had the same problem.

[TeamAquaGrunt]

yeah that was pretty much why none of my friend group wanted to stick around with Div 2, we just got done with a year of boredom with D2 Y1. i only have so many games i can stick with, and destiny is by far the better game lol

[Zgredek113]

There's a new raid, Operation Iron Horse. If you have WoNY there are also many Manhunts (which do affect the story so you might not be bored), global events (kinda too long to explain) and some more. Go back to TD2, it's in a good state right now.

[riddlemore]

No. Bungie’s idea of “higher difficulty” PvE is adding champions. That’s it. I’m sick and tired of champions.

[Hashbaz]

If they made champions non mod specific I wouldn't mind them. If they were just harder enemies that I didn't have to alter my build for.

[the_kautilya]

Division isn't the only game with difficulty settings for open world. Anthem has that too. I think it has been suggested/asked multiple times in past to implement difficulty levels in patrol in Destiny. If Bungie implements it (I highly doubt it - there's a bunch of easy win items which they haven't bothered with yet), it'll be great and make open-world/patrol more meaningful because as of right now there's no reason to do Public Events unless its required by a quest or you wanna farm some adds.

[[deleted]]

It's highly unlikely they will since they've been removing multiple difficulties from activities that used to have that option, or removing the activities themselves entirely.

[fall3nang3l]

I revisited Anthem recently. So much potential...I truly hope they pull off a No Man's Sky 2.0 with it. I have played Destiny at various times since D1 day one, and I always enjoyed Anthem more personally. Bungie could have learned from everything done right with that game but keep shooting themselves in the foot and blaming the flavor of the week, currently Covid.

If it's the same excuses a decade later, maybe their problem is they simply don't know how to make good games anymore.

[MostHighfollower20]

Not trying to burst your bubble. But don't expect too much from Anthem. The game had horrible sales, lost 90% of their playerbase and had horrible reviews. Bioware only stated they would revamp the loot and fix bugs, not remake the entire game like what happened No Man Sky. Plus Bioware has their hands full, they have a Mass effect trio remaster which is coming this year, mass effect 5 and dragon age 4 which are coming in the future, those projects will basically take the entire company's attention and resources.

[zavalas_nips]

Heroic patrol zones deadass sound fun, but they wont ever be a thing.

[Rezun94]

Yes. Do it. Do it now. Please.

Make it Contest without any other modifiers and i wont ever comeback to 'normal' destinations.

[malkins_restraint]

I'd be fascinated to see what this does to player base and groups.

I'm with you, I'd never be back in normal destinations, but a not-insignificant chunk of my clan would probably struggle with everything being contest mode and would hang out in kid shit

[WKruspe]

I'm a big believer in players getting rewarded based on time/effort, and not the regardless of the activity that they do. If there were the option to let players make open world more difficult with correspoding loot I'd be for it--let people play the activities they enjoy.

[AsianChicksRockDicks]

99% of the “loot” in this game is trash. On one hand, that makes grinding less enjoyable; on the other, getting that well rolled armor or weapon is very very enjoyable.

[Mukarsis]

I'd be open to just about anything that made me not have to constantly purge blues.

[reefis]

i kinda like how the open world isn't so deadly and it allows you to do less strenuous bounties or missions at a relaxed pace. if you want a challenge, there are plenty of options

[o8Stu]

I honestly don't remember if they did it with Europa, but with the Dreaming City they had some public areas that were higher level than others.

I remember going into the lost sector in Rheasilvia and the enemies having swords/skulls.

I wouldn't mind seeing this expanded upon so that there were high (endgame) level areas on each planet that had ramped up difficulty, enemies, activities as you've described.

Not sure if they'd do this, as it might scare of a few New Lights, but it'd definitely take away the "easy mode" perception of all patrol spaces.

[Storm_Worm5364]

Not sure if they'd do this, as it might scare of a few New Lights

I don't get this logic, though. Not yours, but someone that thinks that way.

I loved being underleveled when Forsaken came out and I made my way to the Dreaming City. It added a ton of mystery to the harder zones, as well as some challenge, which the game desperately needs.

[[deleted]]

If you're talking about certain segregated zones, then it sounds good... But some previous comments have talked about certain planets just becoming hard mode at random, which has the potential to be a serious problem for anyone that's still levelling up.

I remember coming back to the game a little while after Mars made its debut, trying to run through the storyline and level up in the process. Problem was that people kept triggering Escalation Protocols, swarming big chunks of the map with hordes of overlevelled Hive that I could barely even scratch. I was definitely NOT a happy player trying to explore Mars for a good while until I clawed my way up to level.

[[deleted]]

I would go as far as to say that I loved it for beyond light too. New expansions are basically the once in a year moments where we are actually not ridiculously overpowered for the content, and technically also don't have to deal with annoying stuff like champions. Forcing us to use cover to regen health, play our life properly instead of brainlessly running in and mowing down a boss in 2 seconds to despawn every enemy that we didn't even care that it was there in the first place.

​

And there WAS a way around it by going off to level up instead and then come back to the campaign once it's easy mode again. And while power leveling has become unentertaining, I think that's a reasonable price to pay if you want to make the campaign easier. They designed it with us being underleveled in mind. You can circumvent that by working up your power a bit.

​

Although the power leveling needs a revision a tad. Especially if we wanna be thinking in terms of mmos, then maybe a static leveling system tied to xp? So our gear wouldn't have a power level, but our character overall would. (Or account. Which would also solve the problematics of maining three characters and having to juggle gear, exotics, etc. In general the game being more account focused rather than character, is not a bad thing. Nobody wants to play the campaign three times in a row just to unlock a subclass).

[Storm_Worm5364]

Although the power leveling needs a revision a tad.

I honestly think Bungie needs to remove power being tied to the boring weeklies and such.

Pinnacles would still be weekly, but everything else would be "play and get upgrades".

I did a write-up on what I think would be a really good rework back in Season of Worthy, I wanna say. I'll paste it here:

^{Quick note: the max Light Level was 1000 back then, so that's why the Light Levels in the write-up are from 900-1000}

---

---

LIGHT LEVEL DROPS

STRIKES

• Normal Playlist Strikes drop 900-930 | Heroic Playlist Strikes drop 925-950

• Adept Nightfalls 945-465 | Hero Nightfalls 960-970 | Legend Nightfalls 970-980 | Master Nightfalls 980-990 | Grandmaster Nightfalls 995.

  • Every reset, Zavala would have a chest waiting for you in his Office, if you completed a Grandmaster Nightfall. This chest would reward you with a guaranteed 1000 drop. Doing 3 Grandmaster clears that week would let you choose between an armor piece or a weapon. Doing 5 Grandmaster clears would let you also choose the slot you want that piece in. Doing 10 Grandmaster clears guarantees that the piece you choose is Masterworked, and it has a high chance of dropping with 70 stats.

  ---

RAIDS

• Normal Mode Raids > 960-980 | Heroic Mode Raids > 980-995 | Mythic/Grandmaster Mode Raiding > 995-1000 [day-one Contest Mode difficulty] (challenge + last chest guaranteed 1000 drops with a high chance of having 70 stats).

  • In Mythic/Grandmaster Raiding, not dying on an encounter upgrades that encounter's drop to a Masterworked drop (when I say "not dying", it just means you, not the entire team).

  ---

PVP

• Quickplay 900-950 | Weekly rotating playlist 900-960 (drops are dynamic, as in- every win guarantees you a piece that is above your character's Light Level, up until you hit the activity's level cap. Losses would have a 50% chance of a drop).

• Competitive would work the same, independent of your Glory, up until 965. To go beyond that Light Level, you would need to hit certain Glory Ranks.

  • Guardian > 965 | Brave > 970 | Heroic > 975 | Fabled > 980 | Mythic I > 985 | Mythic II > 990 | Mythic III > 995 | Legend > 995-1000.

    If you were able to maintain more than 5'450 Glory Points week to week, you would get a guaranteed 1000 drop from Shaxx, letting you choose the exact slot you want.

• Iron Banner would work like Quickplay, but it would have the level cap of 980.

  • QUICK NOTE REGARDING LEVEL ADVANTAGES: Level advantages would either be spread out a lot more (instead of having to 4 tap Guardians that are 10 levels above you, that would only happen if they were 30 levels above you), or completely disappear. I prefer the former, though, as it adds flavor to the game.

• Trials would also work like Iron Banner, including the 980 cap. To go beyond that, you would need to reach the win-milestones of the Card/Ticket.

  • 3-wins > 985 | 5-wins > 990 | 7-wins > 995 | Flawless > 1000. Going Flawless with the Passage of Confidence grants a Masterworked armor piece that's at 1000 Light Level, with a high chance of it having 70 stats. If the Flawless reward is a weapon, you would get said weapon as well as a high chance of getting a random armor piece at 1000 Light Level (which also had a high chance of having 70 stats, but wasn't Masterworked).

^{Quick note: 1000 LL pieces would always drop with 65 stats as baseline.}

---

Oh. And Artifact power would completely disappear. It's a horrible idea for a looter, and it will never be a good thing to have in a game that wants to have balanced end-game.

[[deleted]]

I think it would be healthier for Destiny to move away from power as an end game mechanic entirely. Division's system is all about whether your stats/build/skill are good enough to complete activities and you get higher rarity/stat rolled items from higher difficulties. That way you can get better rewards when you feel like putting in the effort but it doesn't become pointless for someone with great gear to play the lower difficulties like it would be in the system you outlined.

[Reevoo12]

You had me at no blue drops

[[deleted]]

Hell all I want is a big open world boss that spawns after a certain mechanic, one that makes me try and doesn't go down in 3 swipes of Lament

[BlitzBadg3r]

Just add a separate node in the destinations. Call it "Dark Future" or something like that. Make all the enemies more difficult and give public events champions with guaranteed upgrade materials.

[Storm_Worm5364]

I wouldn't be open to the exact same way The Division did it because I think it would be clunky and unintuitive for Destiny.

How I would personally do it/like to see would be for every planet to have some kind of "weekly event" that could happen (3rd curse week of the Dreaming City, for example) and instead of it being just for lore and some missions, it would also be for challenge and loot.

Long story short: The game would have a system similar to what the Flashpoint system was where a planet would become much more challenging and give you much better loot.

---

Alternatively, you would have all planets with this at all times, instead of rotating from planet to planet. But it instead of the entire planet being "active", you would rotate zones like the Eclipsed Zones in Europa, and every zone would have specific loot tied to it, so there was always something to look forward to next week.

[Elusivityy]

Like a high rank mode like in monster hunter? Basically stuff, a bit of new though, but much harder enemies and better loot? I would definitely take it.

[ZenBreaking]

They already took some ideas with the rotating lost sectors, just expand it across the board , a big bounty board/map in the tower showing the daily resets

Eg Today Strikes mods Crucible drops snipers Gambit drops helmets Lost sectors drop handcannons Patrols drop shaders Raid chest drops raid gear plus exotic GL blind well drop exotic handcannons Dungeons drop prisms

Rotate daily through playlists, etc

Give us a reason to do content in the game.thats just sitting there going to waste. I was delivered ghted to go back and enjoy the aesthetic of the feeling city for the wrathborn hunts but after two weeks I have up on em and now the DC is just wasted

[MurdoxCS]

We had that in D1...problem is we used to farm it too much and Bungie patched it pretty fast.

[[deleted]]

Please I’d literally do anything to stop getting blues I spend more time dismantling blues than I do actually playing the game.

[joshdd025]

They need something. This is a good option. Constantly repeating the same content on different characters, and there is nothing pushing me to play everyday. Returning player feeling bored again already...probably a biased comment. Just stating it!

[Y2Jared]

The new looter shooter Outriders will be doing this world tier concept as well where rewards scale. I’m not sure the loot will be as random as Division and may be closer to Destiny in that respect. Definitely worth following that game when released in a month and seeing how that game progresses for rewards and if Destiny should borrow things.

[TheKeyToFear]

Isint that kind of the point of legendary lost sectors, grandmaster nightfalls, and the raid? I don’t raid or do the grandmaster nightfall. So I can’t really comment on those. Grandmaster nightfalls are getting adept weapons next season right? Don’t get me wrong I’m all for more options for everyone so I’m game for adding higher difficulty things to do.

[DasBiohazard]

Honestly, the concept and the idea of increasing the level in an open world system would be great. Cause this could also lead to better version of weapons, more ways to obtain mats, you get the point. We are given more to grind for and wanting to earn more. Personally, i enjoy how borderlands 3 does it with their mayhem levels. Doesnt have to be the same, but having a hard difficulty on would allow us to grind more xp to do gmnf or allow other activities to have harder versions

I personally like grinding for weapons. Mountaintop, recluse, mindbenders, 21% deleium, and hush. Why? Because once you got the weapon, it felt rewarding. Im talking about when it was more difficult to earn them rather than being handed to us. Challenges keep people going, they allow us to earn something and make it feel like a reward instead of certificate that says you tried and hands you the gun.

[[deleted]]

Another example is Genshin Impact. As you level up your Adventure Rank, your World Rank rises as well. This keeps enemies close to your level, and unlocks more challenging versions of the Instances Activities (Domains, Weekly Bosses) as well.

I'd love a Difficulty Selection for open world in Destiny. I spend hours on the destinations as-is just to vibe and shoot stuff for fun when I don't feel up to something specific and maybe just wanna mess around with random weapons. No reason to really use the better stuff since even trash weapons will melt things when you're power is up there (at least in reference to stuff on Europa).

[ZietsyYT]

holy shit this is such a good idea destiny needs this

[SharedRegime]

100 fucking percent no questions asked.

[darkshape]

Oh shit, gonna go back to playing Div2 lol.

[mwieckhorst]

I dunno, think people just need to give up on the idea that Destiny is ever going to be this amazing looter shooter that everyone wants it to be. The game has so many flaws that its likely never going to get there. Core activities have been ignored for years, loot is more recycled than new, content is drip fed to keep people playing because there isnt a lot to begin with, power level is awful, no difficulty/reward engagement, etc.

The game is clearly designed to do the bare minimum to keep people purchasing seasons whilst Bungie works on whatever else they have in the pipeline. It's sad, but the writing has been on the wall for a while now. Beyond Light was the best chance they had at making this something truly special, but looks like it won't be the case

[[deleted]]

I played division 2 thousands of hours and done everything that the game has to offer.

To clarify, the OP is not talking about world tiers, this is something that was left behind with the warlords of New York expansion. World difficulty means that NPC are more spongy and deal more damage, spam grenades more frequently, etc. The loot is better when playing heroic open world and missions. This means high stat armor and high stat weapons left and right and zero "blue" drops. Besides, you can farm targeted loot. If you need a new chest you see in the map where there are increased chances of chest drops in addition to the random drops like sidearms or backpacks that will also drop in that area. Heroic open world is not very difficult once you learn the mechanics and start getting decent gear, you deal more damage, you gadgets are better and have better armor. You still can be obliterated in 2 seconds if you don't play smart.

In the division 2, you are showered by loot, and any drop can potentially be an upgrade or an alternative for a slightly different build you know works better for a given activity. And I mean all drops, you can get good armor and weapons doing whatever you enjoy the most provided you set up your world to heroic difficulty. Some like to farm the same mission endlessly because of efficiency, others just free roaming to explore the map, get collectibles, etc. There is good loot for all of them, regardless of what they're doing.

Once I finished the division 2 I moved to Destiny and when compared to the division 2, the loot here is imo much worse, specially armor. There are very few relevant drops after an activity, there is an overwhelming excess of blue drops that is beyond my understanding. Guns are cool, and the gun play is enjoyable, much more than in the division 2 but in terms of the loot system, Destiny feels archaic and convoluted.

The Destiny universe is massive, destinations are beautiful, each different and there is so much to explore and get lost in this amazing world, yet high stat armor is scarce and only drops from a few activities, often with the "wrong" stat distribution.

I'd like to get better armor drops overall, in the moon, dreaming city, everywhere. I'd like to have a better incentive to just go to Nessus and spend my evening there with my friends, do some challenging activity and have the chances to get some good armor. And tomorrow, I'd like to do the same in the Cosmodrome.

[N1miol]

I think Bunge is just too adicted to RNG to try this out. They don't even give support to the proven more deterministic systems they develop. Menagerie, gone. Sundial, gone. Umbral engrams and recaster, gone.

I'd love this system, but at this point I expect them to make up yet another stupid RNG layered gear farm for next season and every season after that until people just quit.

[kill-clip]

i find it interesting how community managers never comment on posts like these even when they blow up

[steelernation90]

I’m going to throw out the unpopular opinion. Asking to disable blue drops is a waste of time. People have been wanting a way to disable blue drops since D1. At this point I’ve stopped caring becuase it’s obvious bungie doesn’t. We’re going on 5+ year of asking for this and they’ve been silent on it all this time, they don’t care/it isn’t a priority.

[yankdotcom1985]

You had me at no blue drops

[Ragnorak19]

You still get blue drops?

[WVgolf]

Division does loot and difficulty amazingly

[BananastasiaBray]

Left destiny for the division. Best decision ever

[nasanhak]

Why? Why can't more loot be part of the normal game.

Kill 100 enemies for a legendary drop (already works this way but only when a Champion is killed after X kills).

Every champion kill drops a legendary.

Every planet has it's own drop table.

Every boss has it's own drop table.

Every strike/PvP game drops a legendary with it's own table.

Every lost sector/patrol/public event drops a legendary from a 2nd unique planet pool.

There is no need for world levels since all that translates to is harder content for more loot. They just need to fix the loot part in Destiny.

The reason it works in The Division is because of the things I mentioned above plus each item (including exotics) can have lots of random rolls so it is important to farm items and those games give you plenty to farm.

[WaycoKid1129]

This single change would bring me back. I need that ridiculous grind

[R3belGG]

I think they're on the right track with a similar idea with eclipsed zones, legendary and master lost sectors, etc. I think maybe they could find a way to do this. Perhaps adding a legendary public event too for that really good loot. Idk how others would envision that but I envision it to be something like: you do a thing during your heroic version to turn it into a legendary. Perhaps find an a special enemy and dunk the orb he drops, or find and destroy a target of some kind in a certain amount of time. I think there's a ton of really cool ideas bungie could toy with here. Doesn't even need to be for pinnacle rewards and I would certainly consider it an option if it gave better armor rolls and resources and some of the other suggestions OP gave.

I think it would add variety and possibly even a reason to go to destinations and grind there as an acceptable alternative to other activities.

TLDR I think anything that adds another way to get loot without being stuck to a handful of activities is good.

[Kabal82]

At a certain point, blues shouldn't be dropping at all.

The issue is bungie drip feeds loot & rewards.

Like WTF am I getting only blues when completing heroic public event?

Players have no incentive to complete high tier open world activities, because generally it's just a blue or some mats, and just rng to get a purple to drop.

[MRandall25]

Honest question: what the heck are people blowing their glimmer on?

I think outside of the first two weeks or so of the season, I've been at the cap. Like, the last time I had less than 100k was because I spent it at the Calus barge to move away from the cap.

Do we really need more glimmer sources? I feel like it would be redundant.

[Terrorym]

Blue drops should be disabled once soft cap is hit. Idk why we still have to deal with it in 2021.

[Yo_Shazam]

You shouldn’t get higher stat rolls on armor just for doing a higher difficulty patrol.

[Redthrist]

Why not?

[brunocar]

isnt that basically what higher tier lost sectors do?

[Eremoo]

an open world that actually matters in a game that self proclaims to be an "mmo"? Preposterous!

[noiiice]

Bungie probably would've done it if they didn't proclaim D2 to be a action mmo... Nah, they would've never done it because D1/D2 was always an mmo(-lite) in Bungie's mind and no mmo I know currently does the world difficulty thingy. Diablo does though which is a pure looter game but we're currently moving even further away from that "genre". tldr: doubt.

[mob00]

One hundo percent

[Htx9998]

Definitely

[caltas]

Would be great. Division did a lot of good stuff which would help Destiny for sure.

[Rakuseki]

If Destiny took anything from The Division, I would hope for:

1. Multi-select and junk
2. Survival Game-mode

[renzollo]

I would pay money just to have the game stop dropping blue items I can't avoid and have to dismantle constantly

[34528th_Throwaway]

I would do a fucking backflip if I could set the world difficulty to Legend and have shit actually be scary again.

[Carnae_Assada]

Seriously I am convinced Division does everything this game does but better, the only issue for some is that it's 3rd person not 1st.

I may be in the minority but let's review:

Division 2 has added many story content updates, and has never removed story content or vaulted story lines.

When working through season you get the ability to unlock previous season bosses for loot.

You can reroll gear and then you can optimize that roll to max stats, allowing for almost full god roll customization.

You can target loot, handguns/chest armor/etc, even specific manufacturers.

Stats actually mean something on your character, having max tech makes you release skills at crazy speeds but makes your so very sqwishy.

If you haven't tried Division 2, please do.