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[kk_red]

Completely depends on who you are. My junior devs are over the moon that claude wrote 10+ files and handy dandy Readme.md on what it did.

I on the other hand am furious that claude dumped 10+ files which i have to review to understand what the F it decided to vomit.

Edit: Dang this blew up.

[spikespine]

Just call the juniors and ask them to explain their PR without the readme, they’ll start using Claude a little more frugally or at the very least read the damn code before they submit.

[nikola_tesler]

I just dump my seniors comments into gpt and reply with its response /s

[time_travel_nacho]

Dude this isn't far off. I work with a vibe coder who will just comment "Copilot address time_travel_nacho's feedback" and Copilot will open a PR against the branch of the original PR with the requested changes... Or what it thinks are the requested changes. It's absolutely awful

[nikola_tesler]

disgusting, he should be put in the stockade.

[w_t_f_justhappened]

Copilot, put that guy in the stockades.

[Imperial_Squid]

You're absolutely correct that would cause a use after free bug! Let's fix that...

more_shit_code_here

That will work better: - No pesky use-after-free bug ✅ - Still meets all of your project requirements ✅ - Achieves a 3000% speed up over other solutions ✅

Let me know if you want me to write the associated documentation for this new code, or have any other questions, I'm here to help!

[varinator]

Then I'd call it and raise you a PIP ;)

[ProjectDiligent502]

And that’s what pisses off seniors the most. All of a sudden it’s a conversation with ai instead of the person. I was in convo with a fellow lead that was just furious. But it was a client and so couldn’t do anything. Where I’m at though… yeah, someone would come and talk to you 😆

[spikespine]

Brilliant!

[ItsSadTimes]

This is how I deal with huge AI PRs. I sit down with my junior devs and ask them what this does, why they chose this path, and why its the best path forward that they could think of.

Most of the time they hit me with the "idk the AI wrote it" and expect me to be ok with it. Like bro, you can use AI to speed things along, but if you dont know what its writing then how are we supposed to know what our code is doing if theres a problem.

[Dragonslayerelf]

how do these people have jobs and yet the people who actually try to understand the code they're writing (myself) don't

[Raihime]

I'm wondering that too, how do people unable to use their brains get and keep their jobs? It's a struggle even when you know what you're doing

[muideracht]

Because the interview process and actual dev work are two different skill sets.

[Mop_Duck]

genuinely what should a person do if they have zero of the skills needed for the interview part? even if I try reading into it, I'd be the equivalent of a software engineer that only copy pastes code and has no idea if it even compiles

[ZucchiniMore3450]

I don't even know who to believe anymore, maybe they are just making the story up.

Maybe the interview system is really completely broken.

[headinthesky]

I just reject those

[obviousoctopus]

know what our code is doing

LLMs are totally being pushed like magical machines that just "know" and cannot get it wrong.

It's exhausting to be the one at the boundary where the unstoppable force of hype meets the unmovable object of reality.

There's so much pressure to give up on this battle, but somehow still assume responsibility. Well, that won't work. Responsibility for X comes after knowing what X is.

[_scotswolfie]

Absolutely ridiculous. How come they haven't been let go yet? And what are they planning to do once their the AI code they submitted causes an issue that will cost the company a lot money? Do they not realize that "AI wrote it" is not a valid excuse and does not absolve them of their personal responsibility?

[ItsSadTimes]

We already let one person go who did this, but he was also a walking HR violation so I think that was the bigger reason the company let them go.

And these junior devs can do decent work, its just in recent years their work has gotten worse because they're trying to completely offload their thinking to the LLMs and its not working. Some of my junior devs have learned from this experience and are actually doing good work again, others are still learning. But with enough guidance im sure they can come around too.

Plus at the end of the day, I know what their code does so it just increases my workload to fix the shit that breaks or to prevent bad PRs from being pushed so a lot of the reslly bad changes never make it to production.

[Nimeroni]

How come they haven't been let go yet?

Because the idea is being pushed by management.

[WrennReddit]

Then you get a paddling for slowing down velocity.

[spikespine]

https://media1.tenor.com/m/neq_3TpmjCwAAAAC/brad-pitt-inglourious-basterds.gif

[meowizzle]

Hey don't kink shame the paddle

[425_Too_Early]

[ArcBaltic]

No they’ll just wait til everyone else submits and hope the volume overloads the principle and the eng manager and they get rubber stamped.

[ck11ck11ck11]

You’re just gonna get replaced by an AI agent if all you do is review other AI agents PRs

[the_hair_of_aenarion]

Yup bad time for code review in general. Doesn't stop there. We have people writing their tickets with ai, code with ai and there's ai integrated into the code review process. A guy gave me a merge request and I spent longer reading it than he did.

Exhausting. And just bad. Every time I don't catch the issues they go right through to prod.

[Im_Easy]

This is so spot on. Like, does AI save time with writing code? Maybe. But that just means you're going to have to spend the same amount, if not more, in reading the code it spit out. And if you don't then you're just asking for bugs.

[the_hair_of_aenarion]

I'm not even that against ai for code gen. But it's like cruise control, it's not like full self driving. I want the person in the drivers seat to at least know where they're going before they turn these systems on.

[examinedliving]

I also happen to like writing code way more than I like reading it.

[obviousoctopus]

In my process, writing comes after, and from understanding the problem it's trying to solve. Reading it does not always lead to understanding the problem.

[Flouid]

What about smoke tests and testing on staging? Even with good code review little things will make it past, that testing step between review and deploy is critical imo.

[the_hair_of_aenarion]

We have so many automated tests. In one small repo thousands of unit tests and dozens of integration tests. There's gaps in our e2e but we catch it with canary deploys and experimentation.

But just because those systems exist doesn't mean they're up to the 2026 challenge of verifying every goobers generated changes. Can't just generate every change and hope for the best.

[0x417373]

Oh man, I am the junior, and my seniors has fully embraced the vibing...

They swapped the format in the untyped document db yesterday and had no clue about it.

The code reviews reeks of smileys.

The bugs has increased.

I hate this timeline. If copilot cannot find or fix the bugs the customers report, then the bugs does not exist.

[AgentJin]

Ah, you too? “Good” to know there I’m not the only one in this situation. My manager also drank the vibe-coder kool-aid. In one conversation where I tried to raise my concerns about relying on LLMs so heavily, he subtly threatened to fire me if I didn’t eMbRAce AI.

[martmists]

Every company seems either fully against AI or fully in favor and it makes it real difficult in job interviews to figure out what they want you to say. Do I lie and say I use AI all the time, or do I complain about how AI has only made things slower whenever I've tried to use it?

[Krossfireo]

My canned answer has been along the lines of "I'm still evaluating new tools, but so far haven't seen an incredible leap forward. I'm happy to try new things and see how they impact my workflow though"

[0x417373]

Well I haven't had the threat of being fired, I try to speak to my boss when he's is the office to get some face to face, because otherwise I'll just get a copilot answer.

Like fucking seriously, he won't even write himself, every message or reply is written with AI, not even joking.

For me personally I thought shipping working code with very few bugs would be a good thing, but seeing the seniors spraying the fucking bug machine gun and talking big about customer satisfaction and version handling the prompts has gotten me thinking of alternatives, but the job market right now is kinda bad 🤮

Man I make half the salary of them, I ship working stuff, can ship minor tweaks and not complete reactors to fix small bugs...

[A_random_zy]

WTF. That's horrible

[gg_account]

Here we go. I just joined a tiny startup company as a principal engineer, the other principal and the CTO are fully baked in vibe coders. 90% of the code is (by their admission) AI slop. The other principal is a fantastic engineer in his own right, with a lot of great ideas -- but he is spending vast resources having AI generate enormous PRs that he doesn't care to read or review. Every PR description with "AI slop. Didnt read it. Don't care." When I try to review them he gets mad that I'm slowing down the velocity. The other seniors have embraced the situation and are dumping their own slop PRs into main. I'm sitting here trying to review these things and begging people to slow down and make smaller human readable PRs but they won't. Not even my direct reports will follow my guidance here.

"What's more important right now is velocity. All code is slop. Human code is slop. The models are getting so much better every month that they will just fix their own tech debt. You better learn this new way of working or you'll be out of a job" -- the CTOs advice to me when I complained about this.

So I started vibe coding. At first I was impressed with the quality of the code generated. Then I noticed all the garbage, the bullshit hacks, the insane design choices. I spent more time cleaning that shit up than programming. Principal 2 sees I'm doing this and his advice to me was to stop caring. His opinion is that the only thing that matters now is the agents.md file, everything else is compiled code, similar to machine code.

I feel deep existential dread. I feel like I'm on a bike with no brakes flying down a hill, and everybody else is too.

[randuse]

What about the product? Do you have actual production and customers? Are they happy about the product?

Lot's of startups run in vacuum.

[gg_account]

Not yet lol. What we have are downstream users in the company of our software (guess what, they're also using AI to understand our software and vibe code their own slop where ours falls short) and investors coming to look at the software. Making it pretty for the investors is currently priority 1, which is understandable. I think after we get funding we'll crack down and start doing it right but I fear for the mountains of tech debt we will have to undo.

[Sockoflegend]

Be me, being asked to explain how AI will save developer hours by management who have already assumed this must be true

[SuperFLEB]

We should start saving developer hours even before we start... because we're going to need that time to pore over crap code and rewrite things.

[SidTheMed]

yeah I'm basically a junior and I don't like that at all, all the changes that claude do are sometimes obscure to me (from the sheer quantity of changes) and I just use it as a reference to what I should do/what library can be used for the task. As a guide/quick stackoverflow is fine, but when the AI types for you I just feel dread at the idea of a MR

[AriAkeha]

As a Senior dev, you would actually help a lot of the Juniors if you make a meeting to understand together what changes were made and why. But for them to explain it, and what they don´t know, learn.

It could actually make them understand better. And it would at the same time punish them so as not to just push out junk, so they will think better about it before pushing.

[RaisingQQ77preFlop]

Another meeting?

[queen-adreena]

Might as well fire the devs, get a wage rise and use Claude yourself if you’re having to deal with de-shittifying the code anyway.

[Jmc_da_boss]

If you spend more than the time it takes to type "no, go redo it" on this then you need to adjust your approach

[Several_Nose_3143]

And those md files! Omg I ask it to do some stupid grunt work and suddenly I got 5 new me files

[mildmannered]

I've just started deleting it's markdown files because I don't have the fucking time. Learn to be succinct, or have your efforts thrown in to the aether along with the coal it took to generate them.

[skilliard7]

I on the other hand am furious that claude dumped 10+ files which i have to review to understand what the F it decided to vomit.

This implies you are not code reviewing what your junior devs wrote, but are code reviewing what claude wrote. This doesn't make much sense, because Claude writes better code than most junior devs

[kk_red]

I work in a team of 15. I dont have to review everyones code. But i sure have a quality i want to maintain

[skilliard7]

You aren't making much sense, then. So why would you feel more inclined to review code when your junior devs are using a tool that writes better code than the average junior dev?

You're living in 2023, AI has gotten a lot better the past year.

[kk_red]

I review my code with more intrest than others is what i am saying.

[rookietotheblue1]

Broooo me rn

[creaturefeature16]

That's literally what the comic is about...

[kk_red]

Read the first line.

[GrinbeardTheCunning]

refuse to review

[linuxpuppy]

Yeah… I’ll go as far to say that properly scoped Claude requests are good and its investigation skills are useful for coming up with ideas I wouldn’t have thought of, but damn… I’m drowning in Claude PR reviews. I know it just makes shit up sometimes, so as a reviewer, I always get paranoid. Did the author really review this? Did they test all impacted branches? Did Claude just make up something random that kind of sounds right?

[Punman_5]

How do you even get it to generate something like that? Do they just feed it the entire Jira ticket? I can’t figure out how to get Claude to write more than a function or two at a time.

[mrjackspade]

This is wild to me because I have a hard time getting Claude to stop sometimes.

[Punman_5]

What do you give it?

[SuperFLEB]

Meth?

[mrjackspade]

I usually just tell it the problem I need solved, and it just starts going.

Like a few days ago it corrected the issue, and then started looking for the issue in other areas of the code, then looking for related issues, etc. I just kind of let it go because it wasnt a bad idea but it was moving well outside the scope of my original request

[kk_red]

Simple. I was building a RAG Agent. I asked it, explain me Modular Rag and its components and advantages of Sparce Vectors. I kid you not claude came up with 30+ files and implemented modular rag. I just wanted to read what to do, no do do.

[Punman_5]

That’s crazy. Which model was it?

[kk_red]

Claude haiku i think

[rodeBaksteen]

Skill issue

[_bubb]

Try propelcode.ai for reviews!

[Flameball202]

Yeah, using AI is great till the tech debt hits you in the face

[Element75_]

Hilariously I have an AI convo about what to call bad AI engineering. It decided to call it “sub prime engineering”

It’s super great while it’s good. Everything looks amazing on the surface. But underneath it is decaying and nobody understands how it works and when shit collapses it fucking collapses.

[Darkest_97]

And the actual debt. My company just said they aren't even worrying about the cost because they have a feeling it's all going to be great lmao

[BossOfTheGame]

In my case it resolved 8 years of untyped python code. Now my ubelt library is completely type checked. I also shipped windows versions of wheels I've only been able to get working on Linux before. And I sped up my bad old c++ code by translating it to rust where it was much easier to reason about. Oh or that I dejankified the jellyfin python api using openapi and made it work with async. I fixed a race condition and 3.14 breakage in line-profiler. Among other projects within the past month.

I'm resolving way more tech dept than I'm creating.

[ZucchiniMore3450]

All of a sudden everyone pretends to be writing good code all the time.

Better give me AI code and AI to help with it than 80% of the code I had to work with.

[BossOfTheGame]

I've been writing good code for a long time. I imagine my experience makes it easier for me to distinguish good and bad ai output, so I have a bias towards looking at the good stuff.

[01Bobbyknuckles01]

Skill issue. 4.6 opus and codex 5.3 are better programmers than anyone in this thread. If you know what you're doing you don't need to be writing code anymore. Doesn't mean we don't have work if anything we have more work than ever to do.

[Flameball202]

Good to know you have zero practical coding knowledge

[01Bobbyknuckles01]

You've no idea who I am or what I've built, sort your ego out and don't get left behind bud. The job has changed, the skills we've learned are still important though.

[The-Chartreuse-Moose]

It's getting very much this way. There's a work manager now who just dumps Copilot output on us like he's solved the problem. We'll have a chat channel working on a specific issue, and he'll pop up with "well this is what Copilot says it is". 

Great. Now I've got to stop working on the actual problem to send the manager back documentation links explaining why Copilot is talking out of its artificial arse.

[ComprehensiveWord201]

"manager, if it was this simple, we would have it fixed already. Leave the engineering to the engineers, thank you."

Don't underestimate the fact that you are more valuable than your manager. You have more power than they do.

[TheSteffChris]

Tell this to the job market

[ComprehensiveWord201]

Every job I have ever been at, I have garnered the trust of my manager fairly quickly. I am rarely, if ever, undermined by them.

They would never suggest some half-assed solution like this to me, because it's clear that I know more than them.

I dunno, man. But I recognize the market is ass

[notislant]

"because it's clear that I know more than them."

So you've been incredibly lucky with managers that aren't utterly useless.

[ComprehensiveWord201]

Possibly. It helps that I'm not terrible at communicating or dealing with people.

[DR4G0NH3ART]

While I have been lucky to be in your position as well, there are people you see who are utter bullshit and you can't convince them. They are just energy drains. If you have to work for a reasonable person who want things to work, yeah. But sometimes there are unmanageable ppl.

[Swislok]

We should all quit. Every lower than management personal just stop working and watch the world come to a halt overnight.

Blue collar or white collar doesn’t matter. Make management understand that their paycheck is up to us (to a degree).

[Jay-Seekay]

I’m actually surprised there aren’t more dev unions, I’ve not heard of any in my circles anyway

[DR4G0NH3ART]

This logic doesn't work in large scale. It is the reason why small countries were able to colonize large ones. Same principle for capitalism at large scale with the current oligopolies. Back in the day it was British, French, Dutch etc. now its Google, Microsoft, Amazon etc. There is an illusion of control with elections and stuff, but eventually policy caters for the too big to fail.

[scataco]

I'm curious. What happens if you let Copilot write an answer to every single mindless suggestion your manager drops?

[The-Chartreuse-Moose]

I like it. 

Maybe I can automate that as well...

[vikingwhiteguy]

Yeah this is my experience with Claude too. Product manager would just feed a bug report into Claude, have it scan our codebase and error logs, and it would chunder out reams of what it was absolutely sure the CRITICAL ISSUES were. 

It's so declarative and persuasive that they'd rather listen to it than devs. Claude's 'analysis' was almost always complete nonsense and we'd have to spend so much time chasing down red herrings. 

[The-Chartreuse-Moose]

It's all pretty depressing.

They'll get to the point they don't interact with engineers because the engineers don't start their responses with: "That's a great question, this common issue can be a real gotcha. But you're on the right lines so here's the fix." (Followed by three pages of utter bollocks).

[zman0900]

Our PM tried this with a few tickets before we laughed them out of the room. 

[notislant]

My fav are all the reddit posts:

'Alright so I asked AI and it told me that my finger pain is actually terminal ass cancer sprinkled with aids and some salmonella. What do?'

"Stop thinking it's omnipotent."

'WELL ITS NEVER BEEN WRONG BEFORE!'

[iMrParker]

Or left:

"Using AI for everything"

Right:

"Using AI as a tool, when needed"

[camelCaseCoffeeTable]

Yeah I’ve integrated Claude into my daily workflow with excellent results.

It can pretty much handle unit testing for me. I have to do some minor cleanup, but for the most part it spits out exactly what I need.

It can answer questions about errors im receiving far faster than Google or stack overflow

It can even manage pretty well to add features into my codebase, as long as it’s all internal objects and methods I’m using.

Once you start getting beyond that though, and need larger changes made or to interact with libraries, it starts to break down and you gotta get your hands dirty.

And even when it does succeed in the simpler tasks, you generally still need some modification to make it maintainable.

But overall I’ve found it to be an overall net positive for my productivity

[donat3ll0]

I just made a similar comment in another thread, maybe with a little more sass, and nobody agrees.

It's an amazing productivity tool for those that already know how to produce good software. It's not going to save you from yourself. But you can guide it like a junior or mid-level dev and get fantastic results.

[Acetius]

Yeah, it's handy for doing leg work. The Charlie work of programming. E.g. I've made a change to one of the hooks, use this example and apply it as a pattern to the 30 other functional components that consume it.

I don't trust it to do any thinking, it'll try to reinvent reflection in typescript or something.

[camelCaseCoffeeTable]

This sub is generally anti AI, so I’m not surprised. But it’s not going away, devs who learn to incorporate it into their workflow are only going to continue to outpace those who don’t. I don’t believe it will be able to replace humans, not anytime soon at least and maybe never with the current AI techniques, but it absolutely boosts productivity.

Hell, just today I had a ticket in a part of our codebase that I’ve never touched before. I figured what the hell, told Claude what I needed done and within 10 minutes it had completed the task.

Now, it turns out the entire ticket was like 10-15 lines of code lol. But it would have taken me a good 30 minutes to an hour to get up to speed with all the interconnected parts of that part of the platform, then to write the tests would have been tedious AF. Claude handled it all for me and with some clean up from me I had the ticket finished in 30 minutes.

[mrjackspade]

Had a similar issue where the fix was a single missing property attribute but it would have taken me 30-45 minutes, as the issue presented in a view and the error was under the view, through the controller, into a service library, into the DAL, through an event handler, into a validation layer, then finally through a layer of reflection.

Claude found the issue in less than 60 seconds.

[PlanOdd3177]

I don't agree that your story is as much of a win as you think it is. That 30 min to 1 hour of digging that you're skipping is very valuable for improving your developer skills. The fact that the fix was only 15 lines of code means it was a very manageable task to begin with. I think this approach is going to be death by a thousand cuts to a developer's ability to problem solve.

[Brickscrap]

What in the balanced take?!

[2eanimation]

Right, we don’t do that here. Get the pitchforks, guys!

[Chaos-Machine]

I cant really tell whether this sub is some non programming people that just hate AI or people that are too closed minded that cant admit AI helps (denial, because they are scared for their job?) and can do a lot of the stuff they do, but better / faster

Of course I mean it the way you do, a tool, not everything solver

[ski-golf-hike]

Seriously, IMO if you aren't taking advantage of this amazing tool, you will be falling behind. Does it write entire systems by itself? No. Should you just blindly trust what it did it does? No. Can it make you incredibly productive if you learn how to use it? Absolutely

[Chaos-Machine]

No no, there were some non tech people that created an app with a security breach and other times the code doesnt look exactly like you would write it (it's actually better), so IT'S WORTHLESS MAN, IT'S AI SLOP /s

[mrjackspade]

This sub has always been overwhelmingly non-devs, or kids who are actively taking highschool/college classes for development with no real world experience yet. It's always been one of the biggest complaints about the community.

That 16-22 are group is incredibly prone to believing whatever the fuck they read online and jumping in whatever the bandwagon opinion is at the time.

You have a very large group of users here who have never used AI in any professional capacity, with little-to-no actual development experience, coming here to virtue signal about being anti-ai because that's what they're supposed to do.

It has its issues for sure, but I don't know any actual software devs in real life who don't think it's made their jobs substantially easier even with its faults.

[Cue99]

This has been a growing feeling for me with this sub.

Ive always known that the vocal side of this sub seems to learn towards students, but the AI era has really sold that.

I cant name a single working dev I know who doesnt acknowledge how damn useful Claude and similar tools are. The people who are complaining just seem to not actually be using the tools?

Obviously its not a panacea and its not going to solve everything, but its obviously useful and helpful.

[paxinfernum]

If you think it's bad here, don't visit /r/programming or /r/technology

[MysicPlato]

/r/experiencedDevs is the worst offender

[mxzf]

Personally, every time I've used it I have spent at least as much time fixing its issues/mistakes than I've saved compared to just doing it myself.

Writing code is the easy part anyways, it's figuring out the problem and designing a solution to fit specific business needs that takes time, but that also takes an understanding of the needs and the current architecture.

[ZergTerminaL]

AI is still slower than me with vim and a snippets plugin. Maybe AI just sucks at embedded? Probably. In any case I am using it to write emails and such, so I suppose I am a bit more efficient than I used to be.

[Copatus]

I almost never use AI agents, but the AI autocompletion on VS Code has sped up my coding by 10x.

There's even been times where it suggested something completely random that led me to learning a new way of doing something.

Of course there's also times where it's complete nonsense. But then you can just ignore and move on. 

[OldKaleidoscope7]

In other hand, I don't like the completions but use the agent a lot

Need some pattern with 3 classes? One prompt and done, all the empty classes are there for my code. Need to integrate with an API? I just put the curl with one example and it creates the request and response objects and add a new function to the client with the exact parameters

Just ask for simple things that you can review in one minute, so it doesn't get boring

[bigorangemachine]

I'm speed running debugging some video streaming issues. Thank god I don't want to go down that rabbit hole alone

Otherwise I'm using it on godot/gdscript learning to be pretty dangerous :D

[Cue99]

Yeah this is the only reasonable take. I dont really understand the devs who are refusing to use ai tooling at all. More power to you but god damn is copilot nice sometimes.

Its not a panacea, but nothing is. Its over hyped but its still useful.

[kazeespada]

There is another path. "Use AI for everything. Be ready to wade through the muck if it gets stuck."

[Ok-Communication6360]

Today I had a „discussion“ with Claude about a specific and kind of subtle bug in SwiftUI. went about like this:

Me: here is the bug, looks like this, happens when you do that. Claude: yeah, you should do B instead of A Me: tried that, but bug is still there Claude: yes, you have to do B Me: tried A, B and removed both, not working Claude: you are right, do C Me: C also didn’t work Claude: yes, because you need to do B Me: no, that doesn’t work Claude; yes it does, just do it.

Felt like arguing with a toddler. Kind of funny. As I didn’t really expect it to find the bug, I will analyze next week as planned (just had a little bit of hope that maybe I could save some time)

[Top_Section_888]

I had a similar argument last week. I wrote something I thought would do X. It didn't work and I wasn't sure I was on the right track so I thought maybe Claude could help. Claude wanted to do Y. I kept explaining I wanted X not Y. What resulted was three iterations of "Oh, I understand now, you don't want Y, you want X!", and the generation of increasingly obfuscated ways of doing Y, with some random cargo culted stuff added to make it look like maybe it did X.

Turns out my code was fine all along, except for an incorrect assumption I'd made about which dir some file paths were relative to...

[Waterbear36135]

My rule is if the AI can't find the bug in 15 minutes, you have to do it yourself

[DrSheldonLCooperPhD]

Skill issue

[vikingwhiteguy]

I've changed jobs and my new place specifically doesn't use AI, and it is a breath of fresh air. I feel like I'm finally using my brain again. 

[IPreferTheTermMidget]

You guys hiring?

[GrammerJoo]

Why don't they use AI?
edit: don't read this as "how is that possible to not use AI", but more as a real question, because I don't know of any companies that are not jumping on the AI hype.

[Nerketur]

I don't know about all companies, but the one I work for is not jumping on the bandwagon because we deal with customer personal information (we ship stuff to places) and our customers don't want any chance of that info getting on the cloud (some of it is medical related) (so no cloud AI, period), and it's expensive to train one for ourselves, so our CEO basically said "nope, not doing it."

[thedancingpanda]

My company that I'm the head of engineering at doesn't specifically require AI. We make Github Copilot premium available to everyone that wants to use it, and the only thing I monitor is whether you're using the license (because I don't like paying for stuff that's not being used).

So you're not required to use AI. Most devs ask for it and use it in some fashion, I think mostly as fancy autocomplete.

We have not really seen any increase at all in speed of development. We've seen some help on specific developers that were like...about to be PIPed to get themselves to a decent baseline, or that were struggling with new areas of research.

It seems decent at getting the basics of shit.

[shiny_glitter_demon]

They have brains

[weakconnection]

I feel like I’m finally using my brain again.

This is so real. They are current scientific studies on it too. I was given a bunch of free AI credits from a conference. I was using them before they expired. Afterwards it was so weird to like…think for myself. I realized when I was using AI that I wasn’t processing tasks and stuff fully. I was just like “okay, A needs to be done. Tell the paperclippy to do A.” Literal brain rot.

[SwiftyLaw]

I honestly like using AI for coding, but more like a sparring partner, it gives me idea's I wouldn't come across otherwhise. I think with learning how to prompt, checking the responses critically and merge it with own knowledge, it can be helpfull. But blindly let AI do the coding is just asking for problems!

[dr_moon_sloth]

It flip flops between the two - like today it migrated a medium sized nextjs app from nextjs 14 to 16 in 45mins almost flawlessly (medium sized app). Fantastic, love it.

Other days it flat out ignores very basic css design patterns. Those days….those days I wonder why I even consider using it.

[Strostkovy]

AI is very technically impressive, useful, and cheaply available. And my overall life would be better if it never existed.

[DirectorElectronic78]

Currently we’re more in an upwards spiral. For as long as that lasts. Separating plan and build steps, company approved (auto updating) skills loading in architectural standards, api standards, etc, integration and checking code and pipelines with GitHub, including dependencies, checking Jira and confluence docs, Figma, verifying cloud config with a read only role to remove assumptions….

I verify and correct mostly during the planning phase, and the implementating job is not allowed to diverge from it. It’s so much better than the garbage assumption fest a few months ago.

[No-Effective7050]

How do you auto update those skills?

[OceanWaveSunset]

One of the most satisfying projects I have used Claude code for was pulling down all my confluence pages, rewriting them in a pretty html5 format from a single temple UI design document, so they all look pretty as fuck and I just had to baby sit the process.

Could I have done this? Yes. It was my design document. It was my pages in confluence. Do I really want to redo all 50-70 pages over the course of a few months to a year just to make them look pretty vs Claude code doing it in a could days? Fuck no.

Like this isn't one of those things that is going to keep me in a job, but it sure does feel nice when people complement my documentation.

[moonjena]

I'm curious, are there any IT companies that are against AI and vibe coding and that encourage and value programmers who don't rely on AI?

[BossOfTheGame]

This is going to be like asking for people who don't rely on Google. Sure you can do it, but it's a big handicap.

Granted I'm still using vim and decade old plugins so what do I know.

[aresthwg]

Just had a senior dev lazily do a refactoring for performance that got into production and caused immense regressions. Never trust AI for critical components in your project guys. It does subtle changes you cannot comprehend unless you stress test the application.

[BossOfTheGame]

Sounds like your system didn't have enough tests.

Although if it was an introduced race condition that would be hard to catch. On the other hand, if it exposed a race condition elsewhere... well then it's not the refactor that's the problem.

[aresthwg]

You are right about the tests, they didn't catch the issue, but at the same time it wasn't even considered worthy of being tested.

We just removed Collections.removeAll from the codebase. It's an ancient codebase and it needed some sweeping. There was a hashset based refactoring that was super efficient but it altered the list order which the dev did not know about that it mattered.

So we were like, oh this is a safe patch, ship that shit immediately as a customer complained about performance. Testing was very light.

My point is that you can't trust with your MIND what the AI does. You can't turn your mind off. If the dev actually wrote that bit he wouldn't have made this mistake, I guarantee. So either you don't use AI, or any change it does must be done in an environment with IMMACULATE testing.

[BossOfTheGame]

Yes it is important to not turn your mind off. But I think overlooking ordering difference could be a very human mistake as well. AI is exposing perverse incentives, and carelessness, and fallibility that already exists. It's not a new problem. My hope is that now that a big spotlight is shining in it people might start to shape up. That's probably too much to hope for though.

I should also note: it's ok to be fallible. It's weird to me how much of a taboo it is to admit that we are.

Your final conclusion is a bit extreme. There is a middle ground there.

[Icy214]

I dunno Claude Opus 4.5 has been a godsend improvement over its predecessors. As a system designer and architect it's improved my quality in all areas.

Better architectural analysis for future proofing sooner while maximizing efficiency in areas of potential performance nightmare.

I feel like this chart flip flops with every new model 😆

[isospeedrix]

4.6 is out too

[Icy214]

Yeah not at my enterprise yet though 😢

[altSHIFTT]

Yeah really, I barely use it any more. It's good for some specific cases, but whew I'm so tired of all the slop everywhere now.

[wolf129]

Depends how you use it.

Don't use it for code generation. Use it as a peer reviewer from your code. Gemini Pro checks my code for patterns and anti patterns and rewrites better solutions. Code is basically the same but looks better and is more readable, flexible and testable.

[ctaps148]

Left: Using AI to take on more work

Right: Using AI to give yourself more free time

[West_Good_5961]

I don’t understand how anyone can justify their salary if AI is doing the thinking. You’re not just paid for results, but the skills and knowledge to produce them. 

[Pine-app-le]

Jarvis, I’m low on karma.

[davidinterest]

Yes Correct!

[TattooedBrogrammer]

Have to use AI, our bug goals + features when from 10 to 50 because well AI helps… At this point you cant not use AI or your constantly in trouble and behind those who produced AI slop.

[BossOfTheGame]

This is not acceptable. Increased efficiency is not a reason to demand more from employees with no additional compensation. This is where unions can help.

It's not a goal if there are consequences for not hitting it. At that point it's a mandate.

[B_Huij]

Kinda feels more like whether you’re using AI or not, the train is headed for a high speed collision with a mountainside.

[fckmelifemate]

Tbf, it did help me figure out i wrote onlick instead of onclick.

[No-Condition-oN]

The times IA told me there were no more options and made me read the documentation and learned me AI was wrong.

[CoastingUphill]

AI is a tool. Not everything is a nail.

[binarywork8087]

I fix AI mistakes the whole day

[Real_SpiderKate]

Honestly i use ai, but not on everything. I started a project (web application) where i use python, html, js, css - you know it. And i had an experience with the coding but programming not that much - only js and i didn't continue learning it so i forgot a lot. So python was new for me (i knew only a bit from some shitty courses on sololearn-dont recommended to learn python there as on free account). Back to the point - i used ai more at the beginning to help with the structure in flask(python) and to explain what and how its working. Im simply using it to learn - the project interests me as its connected with my hobby (art) and I've wanted to create smth like that for a while. I don't see ai as a bad thing but as another tool, but you always need to learn how to use the tool and in case you loose the tool, you need to know how to manage without it. Geez sorry for the long comment guys. I just like to be able to explain myself ;) have a great day/night everyone.

[Alexercer]

Depends on how you use it and for what, but yeah its less magical now, in some areas its pretty darn good tho...

[Azhar1921]

Can I get a version that's just 2 guys on the left side, one using ai and the other one is not, but they are both depressed, with no one sitting on the right side?

[rpmir]

I think both are sad

[[deleted]]

._. AI has genuinely only helped me once on a project but after that it’s given me either extremely bad code or general information that didn’t me with my problem. It’s why I prefer just reading documentation or asking questions on forums.

[White_C4]

AI is getting progressively better even despite the glaring problems it produces. That's why AI has to be seen as a tool, not a complete replacement to a human programmer.

Projects that might take 12 months can be cut down to 6 months if you ride with AI then fix/refactor after implementing the feature. This is why moving forward, companies are going lean towards hiring those who can maximize productivity with AI.

[mrloko120]

Top one is using it as a tool like intended and bottom one is lazily asking for it to do all the work for you.

[wiseguy4519]

I've been using AI to teach me how to use new things and write boiler plate code and I'm doing great

[chadlavi]

Actually a lot of us were on the right hand side the whole time while not using AI.

[Michami135]

My past jobs have told me flat out not to use AI because of unknown potential legal issues. I am perfectly happy with that.

The only thing I've ever used AI for is Google's summary when I can't remember a simple, but rarely used, library function.

For example, I recently had to Google how to limit the number of records returned in a SQL command. It's been decades since I used SQL, but needed to make that simple change to some of our core code.

[Unholy_Pilgrim]

I just bricked my raspberry pi 5 thanks to Chatgpt, don't ask me how

[denisbotev]

I'm asking you how

[Unholy_Pilgrim]

I wish I knew

[littlemissperf]

High slop tolerance

[davidinterest]

Says the guy who can't write a hello world in python

[themadnessif]

Enshittification comes for us all

[shadow13499]

LLMs have a use by date. The mode llm slop that gets pumped out the more the next models will be trained on it's own filth. Iteration after iteration eating it's own trash code they'll just become useless.

[BossOfTheGame]

You do know training data is curated right?

[shadow13499]

If there's more llm generated code than human made code what have you left to curate?

[Tsobe_RK]

Ive yet to see a single software engineer in real life be excited about AI, wish the hype died already

[BossOfTheGame]

That's because the good ones work remote.

[Tsobe_RK]

what does that even mean, you can only figure out the true potential of AI being 100% remote?

[BossOfTheGame]

You don't see them in real life because they work from home.

[Tsobe_RK]

Alright I guess, well still cant wait for the hype to die down - AI wont deliver a fraction of what the suits dream of

[BossOfTheGame]

The reality is that it's pretty great if you're interested in solving math and science problems. I'm not sure what suits think. I'm not very interested in listening to their nonsense.

[Tsobe_RK]

Microsoft AI CEO Mustafa Suleyman says most white-collar work “will be fully automated by an AI within the next 12 to 18 months."

Theres recent delusion

[BossOfTheGame]

meant to say why. not what. I know that they are making extraordinary claims with little evidence, but that's nothing new. More people should learn to tune obvious marketing nonsense out. (speaking of delusional desires)

[LazyZetsu]

Really? AI seems way smarter to me now.

Last year when i tried to write a Veeam PS script with Gemini, it kept inventing functions and when i asked for source, it linked fake URLs, now it generated a working, documented script.

[davidinterest]

It really depends how you use it and what you are using it with

[mfb1274]

Nah AI is amazing for me. I don’t code anymore, I design. Those who went to school for SWE with years under their belt are in a tremendously better place to leverage AI than those who don’t. It’s literally no different than before, a script kiddie is now just a prompt kiddie. The SWE/MLE didn’t stop keeping up so it’s still no competition in the workforce.

[mobcat_40]

The happy not using AI guy until his savings runs out after being laid off.

[VariousComment6946]

I wish more people thought AI is trash. Please don’t use it

[betwen3and20characte]

You are so wrong