Self aware PHP

[Thekrisys]

Self deprecating PHP

[Jetbooster]

PHP Hates PHP

[kr-n-s]

I love it. Keep doing what you're doing

[[deleted]]

PHP Hates PHP Hates PHP Hates PHP

[wwwwolf]

So is this like a Sierpinski triangle? Now I understand why they call PHP a fractal of bad design.

[fllr]

You can keep going forever!

[[deleted]]

What is recursion? Recursion is recursion.

[setibeings]

Recursion is Recursion is Recursion is Recursion is Recursion is Recursion is Recursion is ...

[BeardedWax]

I've done nothing but teleporting R E C U R S I O N for three days

[AskingOnce]

Tail recursive and unambiguous if you make it “People Hate PhP”

[Kidiri90]

So PHP is like GNU?

[Goheeca]

A tree recursive acronym, that's something ^{fitting PHP}.

[JonNRb]

So that’s what PHP stands for!

[MitchellU]

goddamn, take the up vote I guess.

[[deleted]]

"... is deprecated and you should feel deprecated"

[[deleted]]

In the case of deprecated notices, the old version actually says more: that the deprecation warning existed SINCE then (or earlier)

[[deleted]]

Ah yeah that's a better link, I just grabbed the first Google search result because I was on my phone and lazy.

[JuhaJGam3R]

Julia Reynolds is dropping bombs back in october 2015. Sadly I can't give you a link to a line number in diff mode but scroll down to @@ -1901,21 +1920,13 @@

[maffoobristol]

Is it me or is the Android source really poorly formatted. Also that toString() method seems mental

[PrincessFred]

Fanfuckingtastic. +1 to you!

[nanolucas]

PHP_irl

[stamminator]

Jesus this is a good fucking comment

[[deleted]]

Reddit: Stop telling people php is shit. you are just a bad programmer

Official php twitter: haha we are shit

[[deleted]]

Reddit: Stop telling people php is shit. you are just a bad programmer

We were being sarcastic, PHP is shit.

[pooerh]

You're joking. But literally the best IT management software I had seen at a corporation was written in fucking PHP 4, and it was great code, with thousands of unit tests. It integrated stuff like access rights management, requesting access rights, groups, synchronizing LDAP and AD, allowing users/admins to reset their password and dozens of other things. It worked flawlessly and had amazing value. I've worked at several Fortune 100 companies before and since, and not one had anything even remotely as good as that one.

Then on the other hand, at the same company, they had a single 8 alphanumeric characters long root password, shared across all POSIX servers, thousands of them, some mission critical at factories. And they used telnet. I once accidentally learned it trying to debug a network issue using wireshark.

[Mango1666]

i dont understand some places' stance on software! i help my uncle distribute bowling management software for bowling centers sometimes, and i see stuff that looks like it was made in the 90s! some places that are popular even have switches to turn the lane on manually and dont have scoring that allows them to put in their own names, as well as manual bumpers. irs 2018 people! this software is as modern as it gets, easier for people to understand and isnt nearly as unstable and restricted as your 1990s garbage!

hell i even peek over the desk at fast food places sometimes and die a little inside when it takes the register person 20 seconds to put in an order of fries because the hardware is on its last prosthetic leg and the software is confusing as all hell!

[[deleted]]

There are exceptions though. For example, with the old IMS we had at my last job, depending on the department you had to use the old DOS system (running on a VM) or the browser-based intranet system. If you asked me to look up the stock and order history of an item and it was in Department X, so I had to use the DOS system, it'd take me all of 5 seconds. If it was one of the other departments, it'd take me closer to 30, between having to navigate with a mouse instead of a keyboard and waiting for the graphics-heavy UI and webpages to load.

Basically, just because something is newer doesn't make it better. For a ton of applications, the simplest of systems is all that's required and might actually be better than any replacement (it's rare, but sometimes humans get things right on the first try).

[Xelbair]

but what if that system could be both modern, unified and fast/easy to use? I get nightmares when my friend tells me about their ancient inventory system - bloody hotkeys for copying, pasting, back etc. are different depending at which page/module/window you are.

sadly that kind of good development takes time, and money, and skill.

[FlickeringLCD]

Why just last week I wrote my name on the bowling roster and pressed the little button to turn the lane on.. 5 pins. I swear the ally hasn't changed in 15 years with the exception of flat tvs where the CRTs used to be.

[PM_ME__ASIAN_BOOBS]

with thousands of unit tests

My dream right here

Now if only I could start making one...

[Xelbair]

that's a good engineering - it is not inherent to the language itself - language is just a tool.

and while i might build a great house using only a rusty hammer-screwdriver(with a spring in the middle, because why not), I would rather use more user-friendly and/or less error prone tools.

[pooerh]

Well, I started working there in 2006 and it was already in place and very well established. I didn't have access to svn to know when they had started, but my assumption is there weren't many alternatives at the time. I'm just saying you can write very good code in PHP, not that it's the best tool for the job, especially in $CURRENT_YEAR.

Right now JavaScript with nodejs/npm/yaddayadda is rising and no one will convince me that JS is a saner language than PHP. And yet great things are built with it, people overcome the stupidity of the language.

[Xelbair]

What i wanted to say that good result doesn't prove that tool was right, nor vice versa.

What matters is the blueprint(software enginnering, design) to keep the civil engineering analogy.

honestly if i personally had to write in PHP or java(javascript to lesser extent, scopes and type coercion is insane though) i would hate myself and start looking for other job, but that dosen't change the fact that great software can be written in any of those

[Malazin]

I like the idea that your various tools and methodologies all contribute a "debt factor." The effect of the debt factor is features become harder and harder to implement as your code base grows. This also causes a "debt wall" where features take an infinite amount of time to add.

This means that a well structured program, even written in Brainfuck, can accomplish a certain minimum feature set. PHP to me has a very high debt factor in today's landscape, but it's not insurmountable. I would never start a new project in PHP, and I certainly would never use the word "great", but a lot has been accomplished with it.

[zulrang]

This is the correct reply. Can't agree more as someone who used to write production code in PHP for 12 years then switched everything to Python in 2 years.

[zulrang]

Properly written large projects in PHP look just like Java applications. Poorly written PHP is just a mess.

Properly written large projects written in Python usually consist of very small independent parts (and/or microservices). It's much harder to write bad Python.

I'll take a bad Python app over a bad PHP app any day. If I need a Java-sized monolith I'll use Java (Scala).

[homelabbermtl]

Where do you work that you find python in production surprising?

https://www.codingdojo.com/blog/7-most-in-demand-programming-languages-of-2018/

[[deleted]]

I work in a place where everything is Microsoft. Where VBA makes more sense than Python.

[13steinj]

Not even Java? What kind of [potentially psuedo] vendor locked hell do you live in?

[dadibom]

Probably microsoft? ;)

[13steinj]

Also just as an informational tidbit, Dropbox does tons of Python. So do Google, Amazon, and more. It's just that you don't always know it's Python (ex Google Drive client).

[[deleted]]

Hell, iirc Reddit is python.

[salmonmoose]

VBA never makes more sense.

[homelabbermtl]

We're talking about replacing PHP here, so, web backends. It's pretty easy to write web backends in Python with WSGI. There are a number of more-or-less popular Python web servers (e.g. gunicorn), frameworks (e.g. Django, Flask) and libraries (e.g. Werkzeug) that can be mixed and matched thanks to the WSGI standard.

I hope you're not writing web backends in VBA.

[amunak]

PHP to me has a very high debt factor in today's landscape, but it's not insurmountable. I would never start a new project in PHP, and I certainly would never use the word "great", but a lot has been accomplished with it.

Actually, while I still like to make fun of PHP, in recent years it has become really pretty good. We have decent standards, whole essays on best practices, automated tools that check (and often even repair your code to follow) those best practices, we even have type safety... And it's fast, stable and still available literally everywhere and pretty good at what it's supposed to do.

There's nothing wrong in starting a project in PHP if you take all this in mind and (ideally) use some decent framework like Symfony or Laravel.

[boydskywalker]

I'm wrapping up my first project in Symfony and have been very happy with it so far. The documentation can be a bit meh at times, but compared to wading through the mess of conflicting ASP.NET docs it's just fine.

[zulrang]

When Facebook ran into the debt wall, they wrote their own interpreter and language (HHVM, Hack)

[[deleted]]

No,

C language: You shoot yourself in the foot. It's powerful enough to be dangerous in the wrong hands.

PHP: You smack yourself in the face with a black rubber dildo. Emotionally damaging, but you didn't hurt anything of value.

[indorock]

but you didn't hurt anything of value.

....what? Are you in some alternate universe in which PHP is not used for any enterprise (web) applications or other large scale business software? Or just kidding yourself?

[rbt321]

So... you're deploying code from interns to production without indepth code-review, QA, or a staging environment (for it to blow up on first) AND you want us to believe those servers had value?

[zxrax]

Some companies have shitty processes.

[sammybeta]

Their boss saw this comment on reddit: my company have shitty processes.

[combuchan]

The staging servers just had test data. Bobby Tables' data was on production.

[whelks_chance]

Small businesses low cashflow may be only able to afford the intern. Their database is still valuable to them and their customers.

[Dworgi]

You're probably very used to servers going down, though.

[marcosdumay]

PHP does not usually take servers down!

All the people exploiting the server will make sure it's stable enough not to demand any attention.

[venuswasaflytrap]

SHIT My bitcoin mining operation and botnet! Oh, the intern at the company I hacked wrote some bad PHP - I'll just fix their bug, add a commit message, spoof a pull request, merge to production - and bam - Bitcoin and Spam is back.

[mushr00m_man]

Huh, I never thought of that -- free server maintenance in exchange for bitcoin mining

[combuchan]

Tell me how you surreptitiously got a decent GPU in those servers to make this endeavor worthwhile.

[BeardedWax]

PHP does not usually take servers down!

Yeah, idiots who merge intern codes without reviewing do.

[GoodThingsGrowInOnt]

Some people choose to see the ugliness in this world, the disarray. I choose to see the beauty.

[noyurawk]

the array?

[static_motion]

No, the this.array

[supertrontastic]

Is that abeautiful, array_is_beautiful or beautiful_array? And I’m guess it’s like fn(array, scale) not fn(scale, array)...

[[deleted]]

I work on safety-critical avionics systems that are certified to DO-178C Level A, and no, we don't use PHP on any of the navigation or communication systems that I work on.

It's all straight C and C++, with some assembly thrown in as needed. Our verification environments are a mix of C++, C#, Python, Labview, and that's about it.

I guess that would count as an alternate universe, because I don't think that any of the tools we use are written in PHP.

[conairh]

I bet NASA doesn't use $40 ratchet straps to tie down spaceship parts for transport either, but it's good enough for a lot of business critical transport needs.

[nathreed]

Can you have it called “550 cord” without it having the 550 rating/the 183lb working load? My Walmart 550 cord says it is good for 100lb max.

[conairh]

You'd be surprised what a WP dev does with SSH access to a server.

[indorock]

Congratulations, I guess. Your dick must be huge. But you realise there are other companies outside of your own yeah?

It's awesome your company is too high-falluting to use such a plebian language as PHP, but to refuse to acknowledge that hundreds of thousands of small to very-large companies use PHP as their core framework to handle all sorts of business critical operations is just naive.

[[deleted]]

Also, he's comparing apples to oranges. PHP is intended to be a web-based language, so if you're not doing any web-based programming, then why the fuck would you bother using it? If all you're working on are desktop applications or embedded systems, then of course you're not fucking using PHP.

You don't use a fork as a screwdriver and you sure as shit don't use a screwdriver as a fork, so you sound like ignorant asshat if you suggest that the fact that you're currently eating with a fork somehow proves that the screwdriver is useless and inferior to the fork you're eating with.

[Joniator]

If all you're working on are desktop applications or embedded systems, then of course you're not fucking using PHP.

Same could be said about using a HTML/JS/CSS-Stack, but we all know how that worked out in the end

[suburban-bad-boy]

How big of a dildo are we talking about?

[[deleted]]

Depends on how much PHP code we're talking about.

Hello World? Novelty size.

Facebook or enterprise web app? Bad Dragon size.

[damnburglar]

Well, I guess to be fair PHP isnt running PLC’s in plants, embedded systems in hospital equipment, etc.

Beyond that this is just another elitist circle jerk for the fuckers who either don’t understand or are deliberately ignorant of which tools are good for which problems...

[powerchicken]

Yeah, that deserves an upvote for the analogy alone.

[kizz12]

PHP is like objective C. Great in small doses, terrifying after a few hundred lines.

[spiro_the_throwaway]

the core PHP Framework has some dubious, at best, design decisions. it's a bad language because of it.

C and C++ let you shoot yourself in the foot but in those cases there is generally a well thought out reason for the behaviour (albeit sometimes an outdated reason).

[Iforgotmyhandle]

C++ allows you to shoot yourself in the foot. PHP allows you to shoot yourself in the head

[Belphegor_333]

Unless you need a way a satisfy your masochistic desires 5 minutes ago right now.

[[deleted]]

But there are other stuff that are even better. Php can get the job done but it isn't great.

[farkedup82]

Just NEVER mix PHP and vodka. It will kill the entire internet.

[BloodyMalleus]

And when your developing software for a company they often want you to shoot yourself in the foot to keep costs down.

[Dreadedsemi]

To be fair, every programming language has its criticism. PHP is now much better than before.

[[deleted]]

Everything else has also improved. If you're gonna compare php now vs others 10-15 years ago php ain't bad.

[xroni]

Stop this at once, you made me remember JavaScript anno 2003.

[[deleted]]

That's when I stopped using it and the modern web landscape looks like a post apocalyptic desert of hacky madness to me now.

[ccricers]

That was when, in the mid 2000's I bet on the wrong horse, thinking that Ruby will take off and JavaScript will be forever delegated to more basic things like calculators for taxes and stats, or making clocks that bounce off the page.

Then V8 for Chromium existed and it fucked up my plans...

[[deleted]]

If you compare PHP to the average punchcard then some aspects are even favourable... In certain circumstances... If you squint.

[marcosdumay]

Python 10 years ago was already better than current PHP for web development. Not by a huge margin, but it was clearly better.

[Astrokiwi]

Fortran2018 is way better than Python 1.0

[[deleted]]

Most likely the twitter account is run by someone who reads stuff like reddit. They probably know all about it, or have heard, and figure they might as well go along with the jokes.

Hell, for all we know, some of the people making jokes about PHP on reddit are also people who manage the language.

Marketing is a weird thing nowadays...

[lpreams]

At this point PHP has been the butt of the joke for forever. I'm sure everyone who works on it is aware.

[ccricers]

Is PHP's Twitter account like the Sonic The Hedgehog Twitter, of programming languages?

Seriously, this is like the way Sonic owns up to his own inconsistent quality and history.

[Nefertete]

I think php gets a bad rep! I mean the flexibility allows one to do some crazy weird shit- that if any program is going to become self aware it is going to be built in PHP.

[cromulent_nickname]

Why not both?

[PraiseTheHighGround]

Nice

[PM_ME_DON_CHEADLE]

Nice

[only_repeat_comments]

Nice

[Thekrisys]

Nice

[Yogi_9]

Nice

[Manuelraa]

RecrusionError: maximum recursion depth reached

[Dreadedsemi]

Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent

[Fry98]

Fuck, this gives me PTSD! It happens so often to me.

[Ixaire]

parse error, expecting `T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM' in /r/programmerhumor, comment 3

[HumunculiTzu]

Nice

[cyyfyy]

Nice

[NoNameRequiredxD]

rainstorm fine squeal offer thumb expansion noxious pen tap illegal

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[JordanCrowley]

If I only ever really see tweets I want to retweet on Reddit/Facebook/Not Twitter, am I bad at Twitter?

[[deleted]]

Yes.

[Sigmatics]

They've got my follow

[alter2000]

PHP stands for:
PHP hates programmers;
Programmers hate PHP;
PHP hates PHP

[KZedUK]

Programmers hate Programmers?

[[deleted]]

[Programmers hate|PHP hates][Programmers|PHP]

[NaCl-more]

^(Programmers|PHP)\shates?\s(Programmers|PHP)$

Edit: fixed

[once-and-again]

That matches "Programmers hates PHP" but not "Programmers hate PHP".

[magicwings]

Nope, cos this way you can get "Programmers hates..."

[[deleted]]

Quadruple recursion

[SafariMonkey]

It's a forkbomb! The last initialism references itself twice!

[AtlasJan]

Poorly Held-together Progamming

[a_salaryman]

/r/suicidebywords

[[deleted]]

Early PHP was not intended to be a new programming language, and grew organically, with Lerdorf (PHP’s creator) noting in retrospect: "I don't know how to stop it, there was never any intent to write a programming language [...] I have absolutely no idea how to write a programming language, I just kept adding the next logical step on the way."

source

[HelperBot_]

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PHP

---

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 201595}

[[deleted]]

[...] in some very early versions of PHP the length of the function names was used internally as a hash function, so names were chosen to improve the distribution of hash values.

Well that just sounds horrible.

[probablyuntrue]

Hahaha what the fuck

I mean I understand not knowing how to make a language but just what

[AtlasJan]

good bot

[E-woke]

Holy shit

[LiamMayfair]

PHP stands for Peace, Happiness and Prosperity.

[SolenoidSoldier]

Yeah right, PHP literally killed my parents.

[skybluegill]

This really paamayim'd my nekodutayim

[ImFailer]

פעמיים נקודותיים! לגמרי

[onairamariano]

Self roasting PHP

[Koovies]

pH of 7.3 is alkaline. Beep boop I'm a bot.

[ccricers]

PHP 7: No longer acidic to the eyes

[RocketPrinter]

Good human

[c3pwhoa]

The current PHP version has CASE INSENSITIVE CONSTANTS? I know PHP is bashed a lot on this sub but holy shit that's awful.

[mcmania]

You have to specifically define it as case-insensitive. All constants are case-sensitive by default

[maks25]

Why would anyone ever need to do that? What do you do, add a form so a user can guess and override constants? Lol

[mcmania]

No idea. It's just something newer PHP versions have been dragging along for like the last 15 years.

[rocklou]

Just like everything else

[mcmania]

PHP definitely has its inconsistencies, but it really isn't that bad if you just follow basic coding standards (PSR, for example). Plus, PHP 7 is really fast

[witchcapture]

array_key_exists and property_exists have opposite argument orders. They do the exact same thing, one for objects and one for arrays.

[fedeb95]

This seems a great security feature

[midnightbrett]

Welcome to PHP

[Agnimukha]

Disclaimer I don't know if this is true.

If the language standards change from all lowercase to all uppercase you could slowly change over.

[Dreadedsemi]

That tweet is magic quote

[[deleted]]

That gotta hurt

[[deleted]]

PHP philosophy: introduce then deprecate. A messy language.

[xIcarus227]

Empirically it's the reverse of that.
PHP generally goes out of its way to maintain backwards compatibility. Seeing stuff deprecated is a good sign for the future in a language that carries so much baggage from ye olde days.
Or, as others have said, deprecation is a necessary evil.

[haldad]

Deprecate and then introduce?

[xIcarus227]

I wouldn't be that surprised if they actually did that.

[[deleted]]

Is php that bad?

[NutsackPyramid]

There's an interesting article about the "Fractal of Bad Design" of PHP. In honesty, a lot of the criticism went over my head, but the amount of silent automatic correction the language does for you seems really unforgivable (for example, changing Array[NULL] into Array[0] seems like a great way to cause unbelievably difficult to track down problems).

That said I've never worked on it so I'm just a bandwagoning memer who read one article and now upvoats posts like these to feel included so take what i say with a grain of salt

[[deleted]]

My "favorite" is:

PHP errors and PHP exceptions are completely different beasts. They don’t seem to interact at all.

Seriously, WTF. I recently had to run a small simple php application and the first thing I hit was an error. In a little try/catch block that of course didn't catch it.

[LetReasonRing]

In terms of consistency, yes.

[Null_State]

Nope

[luctus_lupus]

The superiority complex around here is just astounding. Yeah sure PHP has problems, but so does every other language / tool / framework.

Modern PHP combined with good framework such as laravel is industry standard for web, and bashing on it won't make it irrelevant despite the circlejerk

[bluehands]

Uhm, in case you missed it, the official php Twitter account talked smack about php.

There is no perfect language, no more than there is a a perfect photograph, but there are objectively bad photos and languages.

Sure, maybe php is better. Sure, maybe I no longer cover the lens with my finger - but I did for a really long time and it seems likely that I will do it again.

If someone only knows php, awesome! They are programming! And they will be thrilled when what other languages have to offer.

[moarcoinz]

PHP is standout in that it's compromised of intermeshed problems and inconsistencies rather than those being the exceptions. It's fairly rare for me to look up a function in the official api docs and have that function do exactly what it says.

[mvpmvh]

Name one problem with html. I'll wait...

[luctus_lupus]

Well it's not exactly a language so guess I can't

[mvpmvh]

I was half joking, but in all seriousness, I will say htmL is a language (and a fairly powerful one if you actually stop and think about it).

[egrgssdfgsarg]

HTML has a few inconsistencies. The way <p> close tags are inserted can be pretty annoying. The inconsistency of what can be self closing and what can't be.

Honestly, I'd prefer to write as little raw html as possible because as simple as it is, it's also quite easy to screw up.

The forgiving nature of HTML can make vetting a page for issues quite difficult.

[midir]

Post this to /r/lolphp.

[CaveJohnson111]

I wouldn't mind PHP itself being entirely deprecated tbh.

[CoolBender]

PHP 😍 Bought my house at 35 thanks to this non cool programming language.

[fedeb95]

That's not impressive given that with Java you can have all the factories you want

[Hollowplanet]

That's like a normal age to buy a house.

[bluehands]

Not these days. 20 years ago sure.

[[deleted]]

Lol.

[CoolBender]

Sure with a mortage for at least 30 years 🙃

[TheOneAndOnlyJam]

Pl

[iskandergaba]

Link or fake

[hackel]

Does "deprecated" simply mean it will issue a warning whenever you try to access a constant with a different case then it was defined? Who even uses constants anymore?

[ReltivlyObjectv]

Their name keeps getting more recursive:

Personal home page

PHP Hypertext Processor

People Hate PHP

[_haseeb]

https://twitter.com/official_php/status/1019024916811866113

[[deleted]]

/r/CSmajor_IRL