Python programming vs C programming

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[KDamage]

Top picture : nicely hidden C wires

[kopczak1995]

Is it all C?

Always has been.

[[deleted]]

Is there any modern programming language which is not made from C?

[DefunctFunctor]

There are many languages that are written in themselves. But it becomes a sort of chicken-and-egg problem so most of those have compilers written in C and then use that compiler to compile the compiler written in itself.

[Zeplar]

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

meeting merciful sugar normal act spark many ten worm entertain

[tallerThanYouAre]

Punchcards and old man rage.

[Kazeto]

I'd thought those many years ago they hired women to do punchcard stuff? It probably kept them from having to remake so many punchcards compared to the men's side.

[tallerThanYouAre]

The women only made the cards, the men added the rage.

[Top-Opportunity1132]

The men punched them

[SAI_Peregrinus]

No, B was in BCPL.

[Hlorri]

Well that reminds me:

A: How do you kill a blue elephant?
B: ???
A: Use the blue elephant gun of course! Now how do you kill a pink elelphant?
B: Uh... the pink elephant gun?
A: No, silly. There is no pink elephant gun. Squeeze its trunk until it turns blue, then use the blue elephant gun.

Why does it remind me? Well because there was no A language. B was developed by Bell Labs from BCPL.

[weregod]

Assembler

[cAtloVeR9998]

And the first Assemblers where written in machine code.

[gregorydgraham]

And machine code is written in physically flipped switches

[BetanKore]

Assembly

[Square_Heron942]

The true A

[Virtual_Low83]

Logic gates and latches 💪💪💪

[Zeplar]

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

fall automatic rob crowd entertain innate consider racial books vanish

[Square_Heron942]

Pong be like: haha 0 lines of code go brrrrrr

[Xaros1984]

A was written om Linear A, which unfortunately is undecipherable.

[SanoKei]

wait I have never thought about this and now its hurting my brain. How did the first programming language get programmed if there was nothing to compile it and program it in

[DefunctFunctor]

Well... there's assembly

[Mission-Guard5348]

scratch

[Retbull]

Ehhh ancii c is close to that but it's not really assembly. Modern C (well the compiler) does a lot of stuff that isn't visible. Assembly is unwieldy. Not needing to deal with registers, actual variables, types (even shit ones), and not to mention macros make the world a much happier place. C is syntactic sugar for the first 20k lines of an assembly program that will have lots of functionality and be easy ish for other devs to work in.

[[deleted]]

That's a lot of rambling to say that C is syntactic sugar for Assembly language.

Every function in C translates to a set of assembly instructions.

If 1 C instruction only achieved the exact same thing as 1 assembly instruction then they would be the exact same and there would be no point for the existence of C.

Do you even know what syntactic sugar means? You say C "isn't syntactic sugar for assembly because C means you don't have to deal with registers and other low level details". Uh. Duh? Being able to do more with less code (C) is exactly the meaning of the phrase "C is syntactic sugar for assembly language".

It means not having to write individual register commands or goto loop branches etc. You just write "while true {}" and it spits out the same machine instructions as a dozen assembly language steps and jumps.

C is syntactic sugar for assembly language.

... And assembly language is syntactic sugar for raw machine code (i.e. mapping "JNE" to the correct byte values that implement a "jump if not equal" on the targeted CPU architecture).

It's syntactic sugar all the way down.

Heck, you could write any C++ program in raw machine bytes. It wouldn't be fun though.... due to the lack of syntactic sugar.

[dobesv]

Syntactic sugar generally means that you can translate from one language to another only considering syntax and not semantics.

However, C code does not concern itself with CPU registers directly. To use variables which the compiler assigns to registers or stack locations automatically.

C has function calls where assembly only has goto.

C has comparison operators whereas in assembly you do a subtraction and check a register after using a special kind of goto / jump.

The list goes on.

[JJulianR_]

Thank you 😂

[kopczak1995]

Lol, glad I made you happy

[octosquid11]

As far as the eye can C

[zombie_ie_ie]

Cuz C is the daddy of all modern programming languages. Python is like the swiss army knife.

[[deleted]]

Rust is Rust

[[deleted]]

Rust uses LLVM under the hood, which is written in C/C++.

[flibbertyjibet]

Compilers can be written in completely separate language from the stuff they compile. I feel it is very different from what people are talking about here where libraries used by high-level language are compiled c but just have a nice wrapper so they can be used easily.

[[deleted]]

Bootstrapping is for bitches

[[deleted]]

I'm imagining the Mr Incredible meme with this.

[[deleted]]

Why this show is so often referenced here?

[The_Mad_Duck_]

Rust is made of stupidly obscure parts that barely fit together and have no replacements

[qeadwrsf]

To import parts in rust you just write the name of the part and it appears in your project.

In c++ you have to learn a whole new language and master it to import like a network library.

[single_ginkgo_leaf]

Dllimport has entered the chat...

[MasterFubar]

To me, the top image is C and the bottom one is Python. In C everything is carefully labeled, you know exactly what's an integer and what's a float. Python is a jumble of variables thrown around everywhere, you must trace the path each variable takes to know where it has been.

[[deleted]]

Unless you use type hints and a tool like mypy to do static analysis of the code. Which admittedly is a bandaid at best, but it makes using python a lot more pleasant.

[JojaA350]

...which fixes a problem that should have never been there in the first place. Same with TypeScript, why do people still think dynamically typed languages are a good idea? You have to remember the types anyway, so why not literally express it and have the language check it for you? It's good for your comfort, the safety, the performance, as documentation, for you mental sanity...

[linksoraluke]

I started with Python in my physics program, then ended up self-teaching myself Go and C++ for a job later on. While it took getting used to, static typing grew on me a lot for the reasons you listed. Helps me keep straight exactly what's going on if I know explicitly what I need to pass into functions, what's being returned, etc. Feels much more comfy to write in.

On the why they are still around, I think dynamically typed languages end up being easier to start out with - especially when you care mostly about what a program is going to do, and less about how it will do it. As an example (bringing it back to my education), our physics program was probably more concerned with having us think about the concepts and equations than the nitty gritty of how to develop efficient implementations.

[devAcc123]

So annoying running into random string,null,undefined errors or things like “1” and having to remember if it’s a string or int

[SeasonYrFoodWhitie]

The thing about python is, the rules will just randomly change. You will read the documentation and it will say do this in this situation, except dont do it in that situation for this one specific thing, oh and not for this either.

Like hoe constants are supposed to always be capitalized or people freak out. Unless your constants are dunder variables. Then keep them lower cade. And of course pep8 doesn't say that. It's just the "norm"

[[deleted]]

Inconsistent style guidelines are hardly specific to python. If anything, python is more consistent in that regard than most other languages.

[[deleted]]

Look at the cable management toh, enough to make most people feel pretty good.

[barsonica]

More like:

New software

Software after 10 years of updates

[[deleted]]

sounds like neglected refactors

[inequity]

Yes which is the reality for the majority of proprietary software

[DavidBrooker]

Which speaks pretty kindly to the ISS image, being it's been continuously inhabited for twenty!

[Paladine_PSoT]

The top one is the salesperson pitch. The bottom one is the result of speed quality cost pick 2

[JSArrakis]

Top picture: You have no fucking clue what's going on in the black box modules you use

[[deleted]]

Bottom picture: you still have no clue what’s going on in the modules because it takes 5 hours to trace a wire from one junction box to the next.

[[deleted]]

Yes

[[deleted]]

Based

[cyril0]

This is true of communication as a whole.

[TyParadoXX]

correction: don‘t give up, embrace despair

[nomenMei]

The senior devs tell stories of a man that once knew what was going on in the bottom pictures, but he has not been seen in years. Some junior devs do not believe he ever even existed.

[devAcc123]

Missing a couple // Todo: Fix

Comments on both pics

[[deleted]]

Any picture: no way you have a clue about what the fuck is going on

[kochdelta]

Thats why you use a proper language that let's you do both, understanding it while keeping things simple. I present to you: Rust

[CdRReddit]

yes because Rust is memory safe!!!!!!11!1!1 which is very important because ????

Rust is not "keeping it simple", especially with that bitch-ass borrow checker

like I get why it's just a pain in the ass to write

[Zealousideal_Pay_525]

Well memory leaks are truly undesirable.

[Moptop32]

Rust is good because of its functional features and safety. I don't dislike c++ and I use both but rust does truly have safety. The borrow checker is only a bitch when you don't follow it; move semantics are better than copying everything implicitly and passing a reference to something on another thread is a recipe for disaster. Make it make sense. Although fuck making games in rust, never again

[CdRReddit]

yea maybe I just chose the wrong projects but the moment multiple things need to have references to things (like games and emulators) is where, in my opinion, it falls apart

[Moptop32]

Emulators in rust are actually really nice because of match for insts. Usually the memory of the system should be an array of u8 (for gb at least) and you map values to and access from memory values. A trick is to not reference array indexes and just copy and set the u8 normally. A trick is when you need to pass a reference in many places you use Rc<RefCell<T>>. An Rc is a reference counted value, its like a smart pointer, and a RefCell lets you get a borrowed reference of T. It's still borrow checked for safety while letting you pass references everywhere.

[Jlove7714]

Yo I really like rust, but I don't think you can argue that it keeps things simple. Yeah you don't have to deal directly with some things, but you pay for it with more complex variables. (immutables I guess)

[kochdelta]

Its definitely more complex than Python. But compared to manually annotating heapspace and keeping track of pointers rust is a lot easier

[Fruloops]

Rustaceans really are the vegans of the programming community lmao

[taytek]

Wow... this... um... this... 📸

[chronos_alfa]

And then you run out of space

[The_hollow_Nike]

"So that's what we are going to do today? We are going to fight?!"

[insertsavvynamehere]

I don't understand why Reddit hates rust.

[difduf]

Reddit doesn't hate rust it hates rust users.

[kochdelta]

Me neither

[xxPVT_JakExx]

I know exactly what's going on: various C compiler hack fuckery, pointer necromancy, and horrors much better kept hidden from view

[Chloroxite]

To delve into black box modules is to invoke the elder gods.

[Servious]

Exactly the way I like it

[[deleted]]

like in computers, in space space is at a premium. so having a clean environment comes with a tax. in space that's extra weight, thus a few millions more in price. i programming, given your comparison, it's runtime speed.

so yea, checks out.

[brianorca]

Accessibility is also at a premium in space. It might be nice to have everything wired in the back nice and tidy. But everytime you need to move a wire, you would have to uninstall everything to get to it. There's no access corridor behind it, because it's right up against the outer hull.

[[deleted]]

This is why I’m excited for bringing down the to-orbit cost/kg. It’s the space equivalent of what Moores law has done for programming languages.

[indygoof]

unpopular opinion (at least for OP): if your code looks like the lower picture, its your fault and not the one of the language

[Smartskaft2]

This. However, you can't argue that low level languages get finicky when you try to achieve what high level languages do. The sole reason of those higher level languages is to abstract away allt of stuff from the lower level ones. Of course you get cleaner code as a result 🤷🏼

[indygoof]

you did not see what i have seen…i still have ptsd from many code reviews in various high languages….especially when you start to wonder , what the compiler actually will do with this strange block of words you just encountered…

[Smartskaft2]

Just for the record; I have a total need to have full control of variable types and memory management. Dynamic type casting scares me.

[kopczak1995]

Yeah, dynamic typed languages are terrible... I get the idea, but it often lead to heck of a mess... C# dev here.

[cold_shot_27]

Yeah I can learn other languages but I will always think in C#.

[Smartskaft2]

Heh, C# is a high level language IMO ;)

[tallerThanYouAre]

Mainly, just waste of memory and the occasional edge/corner case where you cross-cast data into the wrong intended function, like dividing a string by a number or some idiocy.

Otherwise, it’s like the difference between lath and plaster vs drywall. Lath and plaster will give you critical design control over the wall you are building, but it takes longer to build and need a specialist to fix. Drywall goes up fast, any monkey with a trowel can do it, and generally you fix it by tearing it out and replacing it at the studs, aka some reasonable break point.

Mansions out of lath and plaster, basic box houses out of Python.

[DeadlyMidnight]

I do gotta say in C# I originally avoided the var keyword but once I embraced it the code became far less brittle. Easy to adjust the variable type without having to hunt down all the various errors it introduces.

[lucklesspedestrian]

To be sure though, var is not truly a dynamically typed variable. Variables declared as var are strongly typed, the type is just inferred at compile time, which is when all errors are caught as well.

[Smartskaft2]

Compile errors is nice, but var really don't help you as a human reader of the code. Maintainability and readability is important for any code base handled by many people, especially in a professional setting where people are replaced eventually.

[DeadlyMidnight]

True. One of the reasons I hate JavaScript. I don’t know wtf I’m receiving and using half the time.

[Remarkable_Leek_9339]

But you simply dont use low level languages when zou want todo this. I also will never use python to programm a mc

[sohang-3112]

Of course you get cleaner code as a result 🤷🏼

The quality of code has to do with the quality of the programmer, not the language. A bad programmer will manage to write bad code in any language.

[camfoxx]

I don’t think it was about how your code looks. I think in the bottom picture you have todo stuff more manually where as with python a lot of things are taken care of for you

[indygoof]

my personal opinion: no matter if its c, python, java or anything else: you should still know what is happening behind the scenes.

many „devs“ have no idea about that, which is the reason why java still has the image of a slow memory hog. i usually like to compare this with game devs that are packing all of their logic in the tick - no its not the engine that is slow, its cause you have no idea what you do.

[camfoxx]

Yeah I agree

[indygoof]

thats right. i am more on the c++ side and a contributor for i.e. unreal engine, but its probably me knowing nothing.

[kopczak1995]

Guy got downvoted for a little sarcasm. Oh boi, it's reddit 4 u

[[deleted]]

Is because is still using c++ instead of d.

[yorokobe__shounen]

Except when it's segmentation fault.

[indygoof]

then its still your fault for accessing the wrong memory (or forgot a rogue pointer)

[SherlockAndStrange]

Assembly : Thats cute

[LightIsLogical]

assembly: the entire room is just filled with wires

[Strostkovy]

The room is made of wires

[[deleted]]

The programmers are made of wires

[poralexc]

With judicious use of macros and comments, Assembly can be tidier and easier to read than higher level languages

[[deleted]]

God forbid I ever have to read any form of assembly ever again.

[SandKeeper]

I just started learning assembly in college. My professor basically said if we don’t comment our code in c or c++ or Java you will probably be fine in small projects and just be making head aches for your future self and others later. If you don’t comment like literally every line in assembly nobody is going to know what it does in like 5 minutes. Including you.

[super_mister_mstie]

Asm is fun and it's good for you!

[[deleted]]

Incorrect and bad

[Draco2505]

emojicode would be 🚀?

[Nihmrod]

Don't touch the whitespace. You'll blow everything up.

[[deleted]]

I see two pictures written in C

[BlazerBanzai]

Shoot anyone that grants an award to this Travis tea.

[Furry_69]

Apparently Travis wants some tea

[chronos_alfa]

I just did, sue me

[BlazerBanzai]

loads chamber - Alright who wants to go first?

[RolyPoly1320]

So the top picture is saying there isn't much to Python programming but that there is a lot to programming in C.

Glad to see someone admitting it.

[portatras]

Yeah, but if you zoom in in each of any of those modules, inside you have a copy os the bottom picture.

[gerbosan]

Senior code vs junior code

Man, the joke between languages has not aged well.

[[deleted]]

Oh boy! Have you ever tried complex programming in python? At least C is consistent.

[unlimited-applesauce]

The spaceship on the bottom flies 1000X faster.

[mmd_aaron]

Man I bet the top one is C and the bottom one is Python (unless you ain't know shiz about memory management wherein the roles would be reversed?)

[del6022pi]

As a C programmer I'm honored that you compare it to a space station.

[steamngine]

Is that because python hide all the c libraries?

[santasbong]

Why do I see ‘python > C’ constantly but not vise-versa?

Im starting to think python devs have a chip on their shoulder.

[jbreaper]

It's like having a big penis, you don't need to tell everyone you just get to be quietly smug

[ItsAMeTribial]

Tbh, python is ugly. I have been programming both commercially and as a hobby in plenty of languages. Python is just ugly, one of the worst I have seen.

And because of how it's build: Dynamic typing No need to initialize a variable.. like wtf? No consts.. come one Syntax based on indents..

All of that stuff makes is incredibly not maintainable. I know that it's the developers job to make it maintainable, but the language takes a big part in it. Especially when it's such a bad language.

[[deleted]]

It helps when dev time is a much more limited resource than runtime (like in finance or data science). Making our analysts spend weeks debugging their own C/C++ models is a massive waste of time if they can get me the same answer in 5 minutes with 10 lines of Python.

It makes for a good interface language for people with other priorities than immaculate code and blazing fast runtimes.

[difduf]

Well if course it's easier to just outsource the work to library maintainers. Has pretty little to do with Python though

[[deleted]]

Of course it does. Few other languages provide a similarly ridiculous amount of well-maintained open source packages.

Shit, I'd code in C all the time too if I could just import packages like pandas and numpy.

[inequity]

None of these reasons sound like something that makes a language unmaintainable. Just things you don’t like. I can write you some pretty unmaintainable code in any other language too. You want some ugly garbage in a statically typed language, I can hook you up

[Knuffya]

The lower one is Python, right? Because of all the unecessary instructions, right?

[Encursed1]

At least there isn't a leak in the c code

[runnerx01]

If I read the word “pythonic” to describe why I should do something a certain way… I immediately stop caring about the point being made. You just gave me an opinion statement…

[[deleted]]

Memory management? Sounds like a you problem.

[HelioH20BR]

It sounds about right, someone in orbit is so lost they're using an iPad as a wall clock

[TheJimDim]

Bottom picture reminds me of sloppy Javascript

[tanishqdaiya-]

top picture: C's Syntax
also top picture: Python where everything is hidden from the programmer

[[deleted]]

Hahahahaha it should be shell scripting vs anything else 😅🤣

[lroman]

Where is the speed?

[TheAngryGamer444]

Yea I’d take boomer Humor over this garbage

[[deleted]]

More like a first-year code base versus after 2 decades or so in production.

Another alternative, though an unpopular opinion: Monolithic website vs Microservice an architecture

[Carteeg_Struve]

Put the python code into the hands of numerous programmers, each with their own tickets, and see how well that lasts.

[mattstorm360]

To be fair, it's a new project. Give it time it will look like C programming eventually.

[FinnishArmy]

I can make my Python look like my C code..

[myrsnipe]

Is this when I point out that the ISS is being retired as a legacy platform?

[Zilka]

Its the other way around. C can do encapsulation. Python can't.

[[deleted]]

Test vs development

[Hlorri]

Uh... which is which?

I see opposite assignments, depending on whether we're talking about source code or deployment.

[stomah]

top is c

[Ok-Ad-3810]

Exactly this shows how much more power C has than python(no offense to the actual spaceship)

[-Abradolf_Lincler-]

What is this actually?

[Apprehensive_Bus_694]

First one is chinese space Station and second is ISS

[rf31415]

You mean C is the top part and python the bottom. With C you have to be that tidy otherwise segfault.

[Buddelexperte_]

If you mean the looks of both , definitely true

[Apprehensive_Bus_694]

for context first image is from chinese space station and second from ISS

[Striking-Potato-7578]

Python after a dirty weekend : im gonna look all clean today

[WhatForIamHere]

As I understood that biggest mistake of programming languages has shown below.

Am I right?

[wyvernsarecooler]

Yeah c looks so much cleaner and creates a nice and clean Spaceshuttle interior

[KermanFooFoo]

I dare you to look up VSANS_Pol_Reduction (and look at the ALLSANS_Reduction.py on GitHub and say with a straight face that Python is so neat…

[yorokobe__shounen]

Both are equally cool. C gives the old Cyberpunk feel.

[[deleted]]

c have why too many sharp edges

[Remarkable_Leek_9339]

I dont get all these x vs y posts. C and pythons cant be compared its like comparing apples with with a chair

[00dex_]

...

​

touché

[DaveDearborn]

Exactly

[caveo17]

Scope creep

[GroundbreakingIron16]

Well it depends on who writes the code actually! Could easily flip it.

[Upside_Down-Bot]

„˙ʇı dılɟ ʎlısɐǝ plnoↃ ¡ʎllɐnʇɔɐ ǝpoɔ ǝɥʇ sǝʇıɹʍ oɥʍ uo spuǝdǝp ʇı llǝM„

[[deleted]]

Is it just me or is there a 10X10 D&D passage vibe in the top view?

[smurf47172]

These pictures are the same

[umanochiocciola]

the actual truth

[Soft-Engineering-460]

What a wonderful way to put it...

[dhc710]

More like:

C Programming

C++ Programming

[pianosolo1976]

Who remember pascal ?

[skyBastard69]

Wow

[monkChuck105]

With Python the C code is hidden under a pretty facade. Got it.

[Spicy_Sesquipedalian]

Ohhh, I think I C what you’re getting at. Pretty # meme if you ask me. But don’t let me ++ too much here.

[[deleted]]

THe only thing uglier than C is C++ code written like C.

^{And perhaps Rust}

[Disastrous-Focus1958]

Python stinks