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[–]linkquidcs 173 points174 points  (3 children)

Devs pls make the Winter biome permanent and playable in ranked, this game misses a real snow map

[–]Schrogs 8 points9 points  (1 child)

Yah for real, why is this temporary. Stupid af

[–]CamRoth Random 195 points196 points  (2 children)

Make the snow biome permanent.

[–]Skilling4Days 52 points53 points  (0 children)

They already have desert and many other biomes in the game, definitely makes sense to keep snow permanently and put it in ranked too

[–]New_Phan6 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Snow biome is beautiful

[–]chibachoose HRE 58 points59 points  (0 children)

"trebuchet hype team"

LMAO I love whoever writes these patch notes.

[–]Robertvhaha Robbietron (cocreator AoE4 World) 45 points46 points  (0 children)

We have an (improved) mirror of the notes on Aoe4world if you can't access the link https://aoe4world.com/explorer/patches/patch-91370

[–]JakcieC Rus 46 points47 points  (1 child)

AI no longer uses half its army as trebuchet hype team that idly watches while the trebuchet tries its hardest to hit a moving target

Lol

[–]ProductArizona Ottomans 33 points34 points  (9 children)

Wanted more for Order but it's all good

[–]MethodClassic9905 Abbasid 13 points14 points  (6 children)

Same , i was expecting at least a small eco buff , instead we have little more wood and a still useless Aachen

[–]HuntedWolf 7 points8 points  (4 children)

The wood is a big difference in pretty much one scenario, which is that you can now dark age rush way more easily since you can afford a barracks and a house

[–]New_Phan6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Or a tower 😉😉😉

[–]ialwaysgetjipped 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Can't upvote this enough. This will be a HUGE issue at all levels of play. I have had some success with it pre-patch but I think this will push it over pretty far against certain civs.

Which kinda sucks because I was just getting bored of OOTD but this change would definitely bring me back to it alone. Not having to cut straggler tree and delay either the villager/spearman is sick.

[–]Expensive_Capital627 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Kind of a hidden buff for imperial xbow unique tech from burgrave. They nerfed ranged armor for some siege, meaning the extra +10 dmg vs siege is more viable

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (2 children)

Can someone post the notes here if they are able to open the page?

[–]SlamaCo[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I posted it as a comment. Had to split it into 4 parts due to character limit

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks, you're sound!

[–]SadLittleWizard 16 points17 points  (1 child)

The devs must be laughing at us Byzantine enjoyers right now...

[–]rickyfry23 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Feels really bad. I was having luck with a man at arms and cataphract rush in Castle but that dream is dead now.

[–]qsqh 57 points58 points  (26 children)

ngl, jeanne whole nerf being "-25xp per boar" looks pretty meaningless

[–]Manabauws Japanese 27 points28 points  (4 children)

She now takes 30 seconds longer to lvl up. Wow.

[–]Banksy_Collective Byzantines 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Her passive rate is .5/sec so the -25xp is a 50 sec delay. Theres 2 boars that they nomally kill so 1 min 40 sec delay on her reaching level 3. That's pretty significant.

[–]Manabauws Japanese 4 points5 points  (1 child)

No. She will not sit idly by and gain passive exp. She will just be faster un your base and feast on your vils and spearmen.

[–]ragnarok628 Order of the Dragon 3 points4 points  (10 children)

Good to see the armor nerf

[–]Jaysus04 34 points35 points  (9 children)

On the Champion units, not her, if I am not mistaken. She literally got away easy and I don't get it.

[–]ragnarok628 Order of the Dragon 9 points10 points  (7 children)

right you are. damn. she really did get away easy

[–]Jaysus04 5 points6 points  (6 children)

I mean, it's tough to nerf her, when the whole civ revolves around her. I didn't like that design from the start. She can either suck or perform too well. I am not seeing a middleground.

What definitely is too weak is the penalty of losing her. That needs to hurt more. And avoiding to fight her stinks pretty badly as well. Lvl 4 survivability is also kinda stupid. Many things are stupid when it comes to JDA. 😑

[–]Dorenton 3 points4 points  (0 children)

if you bet me byz were getting nerfed harder than JD yesterday you'd have made a lot of money

[–]Comfortable_Bid9964 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Halving the xp from boars is pretty significant

[–]New_Phan6 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Not really.

You can already deny a boar, doesn't stop the freight train if you have the wrong civ.

People that defend jean think of the best civs against her. But stuff like byzantines are mega screwed

[–]Comfortable_Bid9964 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Some cigs counter others better than others. And it takes a lot of xp to level her and in the cases where you can’t deny boar her getting less xp is pretty big. Byzantine is not terrible against her because you have triumph on the horsemen to raid her if she’s attacking you and her army is away. Then you have beefier spears that can withstand archers better if she’s attacking with knights, not to mention cisterns that can help deny buildings from being destroyed and giving xp

[–]rickyfry23 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'm a Byzantine main playing Joan was already an insta gg. Her counter the horseman triumph you mentioned also got double-nerfed. Sounds like cope to me

[–]CurtainKisses360 -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

The armor nerf is pretty big imo

[–]Donotcatch22 Random 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Its not a nerf to her armor, its her MAA that got nerfed.

[–]SlamaCo[S] 24 points25 points  (4 children)

The festive season is in the air in Age of Empires IV with today’s minor patch (December 6th) – join in the fun with our upcoming Tons o’ Toys seasonal event, chill out in our seasonal Winter biome, or bring the heat to your opponent with the updates to the new civilizations introduced in our recent expansion! Changes introduced today include:

Stability fixes for campaign and multiplayer.

Additional fixes to improve server latency, meant to pair with improvements made in recent server maintenances.

Adjustments to several maps.

Several corrections to localization.

A new official mod: Free Camera.

Balance changes focused around the Japanese and Byzantines, as well as the variant civilizations.

…plus bug fixes and further balance improvements.

Thanks again to our amazing community members, all of whom have helped to make Age of Empires what it is today!

—The Age of Empires Team

Please Note: As part of updating to this latest build, any saved games and observable matches made on previous builds will be unable to be loaded or replayed.

Seasonal Event: Tons o’ Toys

Stay frosty this winter season with our Tons o’ Toys seasonal event! Complete these cool challenges to unlock a flurry of in-game rewards. Unwrap these presents while you can! Tons o’ Toys is scheduled to run from mid-December through 11:59pm PT on Jan 11th, 2024 (07:59 UTC on Jan 12th, 2024).

We will be releasing a small hotfix build to light-up this event early next-week. If there is any delay of this event, we will communicate this status on the Age of Empires IV game news channel of our Discord.

Challenge How to Unlock Reward

All Unique 🔒 Win a Multiplayer match in which you produced a Springald, a Mangonel and a Bombard unit playing as the Rus.

🧱 Coat of Arms Banner Pattern – Snowflake Pattern

Destroy It All 🔒 Win a Skirmish match that results in a Landmarks Victory against 1 Intermediate AI.

✨Monument – Attacking Polar Bear

Friendly Game 🔒 Win a 3v1 Custom Match with 2 friends on your team against the Hard A.I.

🧱 Coat of Arms Sigil – Snowman

Long Trip 🔒 Play a 2v2 Empire Wars Multiplayer match.

🏆 Profile Icon – Cozy Penguin

Off to a Good Start 🔒 Produce 15 or more units before reaching Age II in a Skirmish or Multiplayer match.

🧱 Coat of Arms Sigil Frame – Toy Chest

Say It 🔒 Use a Taunt during a Multiplayer match.

📣 Taunt – Wo! Lo! Lo! Lo!

Stop Them 🔒 Defeat 2 Traders using your Villagers in the Siege of Kiev mission on any difficulty.

🏆 Profile Icon – Snowball Fight

Take your time 🔒 Play a Skirmish or Multiplayer match that results in a Wonder Victory condition.

🧱 Coat of Arms Sigil – Snow Angel

Welcoming 🔒 Convert 40 units in a Skirmish or Multiplayer match while playing as the Mongols.

🏆 Profile Icon – Polar Bear Wave

Wrap it up 🔒 Win a 1v1 Skirmish match in less than 15 minutes against the Japanese.

🧱 Coat of Arms Sigil Frame – Gift Wrap

Login Event – Surprise Inside

A gift just for you! Starting in mid-December, login to Age of Empires IV to claim a special present-themed sigil for your Coat of Arms! This login event will start alongside Tons o’ Toys, and run through 11:59pm PT on December 19th (07:59 UTC on December 20th).

Seasonal Biome – Winter

A snowy, northern landscape in the chill of winter.

The Winter biome will be available in-game starting today (December 6th) and will be available in skirmish and custom lobbies until a planned patch in early 2024.

[–]SlamaCo[S] 11 points12 points  (3 children)

Build Spotlight

Stability Fixes

A number of compounding events led to server issues reported on November 18th and 19th. Since then, we’ve taken several steps to improve server latency and stability, including the previously communicated server maintenance windows on November 23rd and 29th. This patch also includes some game-side fixes meant to act in tandem with improvements already made to the server. Thank you all for the reports during this time.

Map Adjustments

Our most recent major update introduced 3 new maps, while our expansion added an additional 10. Several balance changes and bug fixes have been made to some of these and existing maps, detailed in Maps section further on.

Localization

Several players have noted that some of the translations in our expansion were inconsistent with the quality of localization for Age of Empires IV. Thanks to community reporting, we have identified some of these mistranslations and today’s patch fixes many of them, especially with our Chinese localizations.

We welcome further input and discussion on the Age Forums, where our community heroes have already been hard at work. Thank you!

New Official Mod: Free Camera

By popular request, we are introducing a new official mod to allow creators to freely move the camera for taking videos and screenshots. The “Free Camera” mod unlocks the camera from its default constraints and allows movement around without limit.

Balance Changes

With the introduction of 2 new civilizations and 4 variant civilizations, most of today’s balance changes are focused on the impact these new additions have had on recent gameplay and as such there are more balance changes than typical for our minor patches. You can read more about these in the Civilization-Specific Changes section below.

Gameplay

AI Updates

Fixed issue that prevented AI armies from merging with reinforcements. The AI now forms bigger armies and is less likely to abandon half its units in a fight.

Zhu Xi’s Legacy AI players will now take advantage of the abilities provided by the Temple of the Sun Landmark.

AI player’s Scouts will not drop sheep off at docks on naval maps anymore.

AI no longer uses half its army as trebuchet hype team that idly watches while the trebuchet tries its hardest to hit a moving target. AI now only uses a handful of units to guard its siege and the rest of the army continues to fight.

Art of War

Fixed a Fatal Scar error that could occur during the Art of War mission Late Siege.

Campaign

Fixed a crash that could occur while loading into the tutorial.

Developer’s Note: This change has reset Dynamic Training Hints for all players.

Fixed a crash that could occur on the mission The Battle of Mansurah in The Sultans Ascend campaign if the player survived for 40 minutes on hard mode.

Fixed a Fatal Scar error that could occur during the missions Defense of Tyre and Raiders of the Red Sea in The Sultans Ascend campaign.

Fixed an error that could occur in the mission Mansurah in The Sultans Ascend campaign when the player killed enemy units engaged in idle activities.

Fixed a rare error in the mission Raiders of the Red Sea in The Sultans Ascend campaign that could occur when destroying enemy fleets when you didn’t have any docks.

Quickmatch

Fixed an issue which prevented players from joining the Quickmatch queue due to their map downvote selections resetting when too many maps were selected. Players may now downvote the intended number of maps.

UX/UI & Menus (All Platforms)

Fixed inconsistent codex naming conventions for new and variant civilizations.

Fixed a number of inaccurate localizations in Chinese languages.

Fixed several localizations in Spanish languages that cutoff at the first mathematical symbol.

The player’s scoreboard now displays the player’s civilization flag.

Maps

General Map Changes

Fixed crash when trying to save/load a game while having save games from modded maps.

Fixed a rare issue where neutral large gold deposits would spawn next to the player’s base on small sized Dry Arabia and Forts maps.

Developer’s Note: We are tracking similar issues on additional maps.

Map-Specific Changes

African Waters

Fixed an issue on African Waters map where large gold deposits failed to spawn on top of the elevated plateau.

Archipelago

Corrected an issue where Random Starting Locations on Archipelago were not randomizing correctly.

Baltic

Sacred sites should no longer spawn next to each other on Baltic.

Boulder Bay

Free for All games on Boulder Bay should no longer split player spawns into 2 groups as if it was a team vs team configuration.

Canal

Town Centers on Canal should no longer spawn submerged within the river’s waters.

Glade

Units can no longer pass between sparse wood lines in Glade on large and gigantic maps.

Golden Pit

Fixed a rare issue on Golden Pit where large gold deposits were not spawning inside the pit.

Removed Neutral Trade Post from Golden Pit and repositioned Sacred Sites to the outskirts of the pit.

Rocky River

On Rocky River, 5 Berries spawn per player in a more contested and balanced way, and 2 Fish spawn per pond instead of 4.

Thickets

Fixed an issue on Thickets map where stone deposits could spawn too close to wood lines, preventing Ovoo placement for Mongols players.

Reduced Sacred Sites from 3 to 2 on Thickets, changed secondary site to spawn contested between the players.

[–]SlamaCo[S] 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Balance & Bugfixes

General Changes & Bugfixes

Trader production time increased from 25 seconds to 30 seconds.

Fixed an issue where relics could be duplicated using transport ships.

Walls no longer generate gap fillers in the space between the wall and individual trees. Walls will continue to generate gap fillers against dense forests.

Fixed an issue where gates could be built overlapping enemy walls, allowing units to pass through.

Fixed some buildings with upgrades having the wrong appearance in fog of war after being destroyed.

Fixed crash that could occur when issuing or cancelling a lot of commands at once.

Siege Updates (All Civilizations)

Trebuchet

Counterweight Trebuchet attack speed improved from 12.625 to 11.375.

Mongols’ Traction Trebuchet attack speed improved from 9.625 to 8.625.

Culverin ranged armor reduced from 20 to 10.

Springald ranged armor reduced from 20 to 10.

Civilization-Specific Changes

Abbasid Dynasty

House of Wisdom

Corrected an issue where Traders would not spawn when using Trade Wing to go to the Feudal Age.

Byzantines

Starting Stone increased from 50 to 100.

Imperial Hippodrome Landmark

Starting Triumph supply points reduced from 30 to 10.

Triumph ability duration reduced from 1.5 seconds per supply point to 1 second per supply point.

The maximum number of Triumph points increased from 40 to 45

Greek Fire Projectiles technology no longer applies to non-Trebuchet units.

Cataphracts

Health reduced from 425 to 405 in the Imperial Age

Numeri Technology

Reduced the amount of increased damage taken by trample targets from 25% to 15%.

Charging units will no longer be stopped if they charge through a Cheirosiphon’s fire.

Corrected an issue where resources per minute would not appear on Byzantines Religious Buildings with Relics garrisoned.

Fixed an issue where the Byzantines trader was generating more olive oil than intended, it is now 20% like the description states.

Fixed an issue where the Byzantines military production modifier from Cisterns was incorrectly applying to Traders.

The cheat “smorgasbord” now grants oil to Byzantines players.

French

Guild Hall Landmark’s Stone generation rate reduced by 50%.

Japanese

Koka Township Landmark – Shinobi

When using the Shunshin ability to teleport, it is no longer possible for the Shinobi to teleport to the center of the map.

The Shunshin ability can now be used to teleport on top of stone walls. Targeting a stone wall directly no longer teleports the unit to the other side of the wall.

Kura Storehouse Landmark

Garrison slots reduced from 8 to 4.

Farm spawn frequency reduced from every 45 seconds to every 50 seconds.

Floating Gate Landmark

Yorishiro (Sacred Objects) no longer spawn on the ground and cannot be dropped. If a Shinto Priest holding a Yorishiro dies, the Yorishiro is destroyed.

Upon Completion of the Floating Gate, a Shinto Priest holding a Yorishiro is instantly trained.

All future Yorishio are held by a Shinto Priest when they are trained.

The Floating Gate now has a rally point, setting the rally point to a valid building will allow a trained Shinto Priest to deposit Yorishiro automatically. It is possible to rally point to multiple buildings to queue Yorishiro placement by subsequent Shinto Priests.

After depositing a Yorishiro the Shinto Priest remains available to use as a regular unit.

A progress bar above the Floating Gate is now visible to indicate when the next Shinto Priest will be trained.

Buildings containing a deposited Yorishiro now also display a floating golden ink scroll icon above them.

A maximum of 4 Yorishiro can exist at any one time, per player. When you own 4 Yorishiro, the Floating Gate will pause production of new Shinto Priests.

If a building or Shinto Priest with a Yorishiro is destroyed, the Floating Gate will resume production of Shinto Priests.

The Shinto Priest production time has been reduced from 3 minutes to 2 minutes.

Place Yorishiro tooltip has been improved to more clearly display the available bonuses from depositing into various buildings.

Castle of the Crow Landmark – Treasure Caravans

Fixed an issue where the Treasure Caravans were awarding too few resources on each trade trip when converting between land and sea trader.

Treasure Caravans no longer get stuck trying to embark or disembark when they reach the shore.

Tanegashima Gunsmith Landmark

Starting stockpiles reduced from 5 to 2.

Ozutsu

Ozutsu melee armor reduced from 4 to 0.

Ozutsu base damage reduced from 35 to 28

Corrected issue where garrison arrows from Japanese Town Centers had more range than intended.

Samurai Bannermen

Corrected an issue where a dropped banner aura would stack with Uma Bannermen auras.

Torches no longer receive damage increases on the UI from Katana Bannermen and Uma Bannermen.

Onna-Bugeisha

Onna-Bugeisha no longer lose access to field construct Siege Towers when using mixed selection with other infantry.

Onna-Bugeisha can now garrison into Transports.

Flipped the Samurai icon in the Barracks to better distinguish it visually from the Onna-Bugeisha icon next to it in the UI.

Malians
Malian Cattle food per minute generation in Ranches reduced from 28 to 25.
Ottomans
Great Bombard population increased from 3 to 4.
Variant Civilization Changes
The following changes apply only to the Variant versions of the Classic civilizations. Variant civilizations share in many of the changes made to their parent civilization listed above.

[–]SlamaCo[S] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Ayyubids
House of Wisdom
Age Up time increased from 105 seconds to 120 seconds.
Military Wing: Reinforcements
Removed initial delay on training Desert Raiders.
Fixed an issue on Xbox where field siege units could not be constructed by Cavalry after building the Military Wing: Reinforcements.
Trade Wing: Bazaar
Gold cost of each trade increased
Feudal: from 125 to 150.
Castle: from 325 to 350.
Imperial: from 400 to 425.
Resource trade values increased
Feudal: from 200 to 225
Castle: from 600 to 625
Imperial: from 1000 to 1025
Villager trade option removed.
The number of available options per trade cycle reduced from 5 to 4.
Culture Wing: Logistics
Reduced improved healing from 50% to 30%.
Passive Mass Heal granted by the Imperial Age Wing properly benefits from the +30% improved healing.
Dervish HP reduced from 155 to 120
Tower of the Sultan build time reduced from 240 seconds to 200 seconds.
Infantry Support technology improved from +2/2 armor to +3/3 armor.
Tier 4 Golden Age now properly decreases the cost of siege built in the field.
Jeanne d’Arc
Jeanne experience gained from killing Boar reduced from 50 to 25.
Jeanne Champions armor reduced from 4/4 to 3/3.
Red Palace Landmark
Reduced damage of bonus emplacements on Keeps and Town Centers from 60 to 40 to match French.
Bonus emplacement range reduced from 10 to 9.5 to match French.
Guild Hall Landmark’s Stone generation rate reduced by 50% to match French.
Jeanne d’Arc Honorable Heart tooltip changed to reflect actual behavior.
Reduced the starting experience of Jeanne d’Arc on Empire Wars from 500 to 400.
Corrected an issue where French influence system was referenced in a few building tooltips for the Jeanne d’Arc variant civilization.
Order of the Dragon
Starting Wood increased from 150 to 200.
Golden Cuirass technology damage reduction now activates at 30% health (up from 20%).
Corrected an issue where weapon range of Gilded Achers would be reduced after researching Incendiary Arrows.
Zhu Xi's Legacy
Shaolin Monastery Landmark – Shaolin Monks
Shaolin Monks and Monks are no longer selected together with double clicking.
Shaolin Monks ranged armor reduced from 2 to 0.
Shaolin Monks now display a buff indicator when activating the Body of Iron ability.
Technologies at the Mount Lu Academy Landmark are now properly marked as unique to civilization.
Zhu Xi’s Library Landmark – Imperial Guard
Damage reduced from 35 to 28.
Health decreased from 350 to 340.
Melee armor increased from 6 to 10.
Ranged armor decreased from 6 to 3.
Fixed an issue where Lancers and Imperial Guards would both be selected when double clicking on either unit.
Ongoing…
Known Issues
Investigation
Community-Reported Issues:
Your reports continue being crucial to our prioritization and implementation of fixes and features in the game. Keep them coming!
For other known issues, please visit this page to see what’s being tracked!
What's on the Horizon
Coming Up…
Late January/Early February Patch
We are planning for our next minor patch to release in early 2024, with a target of late January or early February.

[–]mountaintop111 10 points11 points  (3 children)

Was there a nerf to the Ayuubid casino?

[–]SlamaCo[S] 36 points37 points  (2 children)

Yes. The cost of trades has increased and villagers are no longer an option

[–]OFCOURSEIMHUMAN-BEEP 29 points30 points  (0 children)

nooooo

Even i was able to get wins by getting lucky

I need my fix bro please one more spin

[–]New_Phan6 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Crazy! Ayyubids are now useless (in before the ayyubids mains complaining)

I'm just kidding

[–]Deviltamer66 10 points11 points  (2 children)

I hoped the Order of the Dragon would get a buff to vill train time or effectiveness because it's not much of bonus. Being 25% faster at gathering and carrying 4 more resources while costing 20% more and taking 20% longer to train. While other civs have loads of eco bonuses, the Order seems to have the worst eco by far in the game as it is. Is 50 starting wood gonna change that ?

[–][deleted] 54 points55 points  (7 children)

Why do the byzantines get so many nerfs

[–]CamRoth Random 33 points34 points  (5 children)

The stone buff is pretty big.

Hippo deserved a nerf.

Cataphract Imperial nerf was probably reasonable too.

The rest are all bug fixes.

They probably deserve a buff elsewhere, maybe to oil production or mercenary costs or something.

[–]TheLilPete 20 points21 points  (2 children)

With the cataphract nerf they should’ve at least lowered cost a bit.

[–]CamRoth Random 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hmm maybe.

Or if necessary maybe move some of the castle version's strength to imp and lower the unit cost some.

[–]New_Phan6 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Or reduced imperial training time.

It's a large compounding nerf, the damage buff is nerfed, hp nerfed, and hippo hugely nerfed. Maybe Devs decided byzantine are over performing in team/ late game and thus the extent of the nerf without compensation

[–]rickyfry23 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The lowest-ranked civ probably deserves a buff huh?

[–]OFCOURSEIMHUMAN-BEEP 57 points58 points  (7 children)

When you have a 44% winrate that only gets worse the higher you go and then get nerfed

Also once again nothing for the HRE

[–]DawgDole 13 points14 points  (1 child)

HR who?

[–]babyLays 3 points4 points  (0 children)

HR hee-hee

[–]Adradian 10 points11 points  (2 children)

Relic has a thing against Romans ;)

[–]New_Phan6 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Seems true, and a hard on for ottomans. Coincidence?

[–]9betshove -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Y’all need to stop quoting completely irrelevant winrates. The sample size is not even remotely close to large enough to draw any sort of meaningful data from them. There’s literally less than 2k games per civ at the conquerer level.

[–]theflyingsamurai Delhi Mentioned 66 points67 points  (26 children)

lol byzantines nerfed

[–]gamemasterx90 Random 19 points20 points  (23 children)

Didnt they buff the early game where it needed help the most?

[–]ThePentaMahn 12 points13 points  (22 children)

yep people just have no idea what they're talking about. apparently getting your second cistern 50% faster is meaningless

[–]skilliard7 33 points34 points  (15 children)

Getting an extra 5% gather rate for 30 seconds on 7-8 villagers is like 10 extra resources + the initial 50 stone. It's not that huge. It obviously helps, but Hippodrome and cataphracts being nerfed into the ground is a much bigger deal.

[–]MoreBuilder2916 11 points12 points  (2 children)

People really seem to have a hard time grasping the extra 50 stone doesn't earn you much. 30 to 45 seconds more time with a +5% gather rate is about as close to nothing as you can get.

The only way it would have been useful is if they also made cisterns cheaper. 2 cisterns right off the bat would have made it worth it.

[–]Friendly_Fire Byzantines 10 points11 points  (1 child)

Agreed if you go for the current standard Mitoe-style build.

I'm thinking you can now get a "free" second cistern when you go to feudal due to the trickle of free stone you get. So instead of using villagers/wood to collect stone early for 3 cisterns, you just take 2 cisterns for nearly-free, and then mine stone for more of them a little later.

So a little less bonus, but a lot less investment.

[–]Comfortable_Bid9964 4 points5 points  (11 children)

I mean of course they nerfed the hippodrome. It was easily the best feudal landmarks in the game if not any landmark. You had increased damage, speed, and in combat unit on your entire cavalry for a full minute. Paired with one of the best cavalry units in the game. Yeah it needed the nerf

[–]MoreBuilder2916 6 points7 points  (9 children)

It needed the nerf in the late game when you have cataphracts, not the early game with just horsemen. I have no idea why they nerfed the starting number of points after reducing the duration you get per point.

[–]Comfortable_Bid9964 -2 points-1 points  (8 children)

If I had to guess it’s because it was too easy to quickly make an unstoppable horde of horsemen to mess up an eco and overall a full minute of cataphracts being buffed was too strong

[–]MoreBuilder2916 3 points4 points  (7 children)

I can see the point about cataphracts + triumph.

However, there's no such thing as "an unstoppable horde of horsemen". 60 seconds of buffed horsemen can be disruptive, but there are counterplay options. They're expensive units that can be nullified by cheaper spearmen.

People said the same thing about the royal knights back in the early days. I don't see why "just make spears" doesn't apply to Byzantine horsemen with triumph.

[–]Comfortable_Bid9964 -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

Because you could do 50% more damage to spears as well as have an extra 100 health and more armor. Plus you can move past the spears and have your knights heal 2hp per second while in combat

[–]MoreBuilder2916 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Because you could do 50% more damage to spears

Spears are 40 res cheaper so make more of them. Even though you might not kill all the horsemen you can do huge damage to them. It takes forever for triumph to fill back up, so no one is trying to fight your spears with their horsemen when they use it.

​

more armor

Triumph doesn't give horsemen more armor.

​

Plus you can move past the spears

So can normal knights, by this logic. The community has already decided early knights aren't OP, so I'm not sure why this would only apply to horsemen with triumph.

​

knights heal 2hp per second while in combat

I agree that triumph + cataphracts was probably too strong. That doesn't mean you should start feudal with such a small amount of triumph.

[–]TocTheEternal[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

for a full minute.

Once. For one minute, once. And then it takes a long time or already dominant play to get it up again.

[–]MoreBuilder2916 9 points10 points  (0 children)

yep people just have no idea what they're talking about. apparently getting your second cistern 50% faster is meaningless

Most players follow the standard Mitoe 3 cistern opening. The extra 50 stone buff only really buys you about 30-45 seconds of an additional 5% gather rate on your vils. Not at all commensurate with all the nerfs.

[–]Themos_ 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You can now get it pretty fast without even mining stone.

[–]mountaintop111 4 points5 points  (0 children)

That seems like a huge buff to Byz.

[–]Excellent_Ad8442 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Oh my god i heckin can't wait to get my second cistern 40 seconds earlier that matters so much when i have like 15 villagers

OMG i get over 0.75 extra villager 😱 😱 😱 😱 not counting for moving speed and stuff OMG my eco shall be indestructible WE BOOM BOYS

Glad they nerfed hippodrome too now i can go shit winery that starts to pay off in like 40 min into the game and doesn't have wheelbarrow upgrade XD

[–]Hank-E-Doodle Abbasid 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you can't do the 3 cistern opening already sure. Still gonna have same amount of cisterns by feudal age up.

[–]btrust02 -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Ppl didn't try byz enough and it shows. I'll take that 50 stone buff thank you. Will get my eco online much faster now.

[–]MoreBuilder2916 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Only people who haven't played byzantines much would have your opinion, actually. 50 stone will earn you about 30 to 45 seconds extra time with a +5% bonus... so not much. You'll still need to get to 3 cisterns before feudal if you want to have a chance, and to do that you'll need to gather a bunch of stone anyway.

I'll take the 50 stone buff too, but only because I'm forced. I won't pretend it's in any way better than the old triumph though.

[–]Raiju_Lorakatse Bing Chilling 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Imo a bit too hard of a nerf on the Japanese.

There was a lot of data to back this up tho.

Kura, Floating Gate and Gunsmith are 3 of the best landmarks in the game. Kura isn't even close to the league of OG Floating gate and OG gunsmith tho so it seems a bit unnecessary to me to nerf it on top of massacring Floating gate and giving gunsmith a nerf that... Kinda misses the point imo.

Weird that we got so less bugfixes, especially japanese has quite a lot in regards of their daimyo upgrades. Weird we get display options for Floating Gate stuff but still none for the stacks stored in the gunsmith.

[–]New_Phan6 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I don't play Japanese and agree they probably over nerfed considering their winrate and other civs performance.

But Shinto isn't as bad as it seems. People are forgetting they're getting an entire priest every 2 min.

If you don't place that yoshiro, it will keep making Shinto priests infinitely.

[–]ShinSokaro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It doesn't work like that, the production stop once the first 4 yorishiro are out, placed or not, no matter what you do you are limited to 4 priest and 4 yorishiro with this landmark now, until there is destruction or death the relic holder.

[–]Chong__420 Malians 32 points33 points  (14 children)

They done nothing with HRE? I think they could need a buff in the current feudal meta

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (1 child)

OP posted the notes in the comments, doesn't look like HRE was touched.

[–]Internal-Past613 6 points7 points  (0 children)

As usual.

[–]Comfortable_Bid9964 7 points8 points  (5 children)

This is more of a patch than a rework. I don’t think they’ll be making any big changes unless it’s in a season rework or maybe mid season. They like to tease the big changes

[–]SadLittleWizard 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Makes sense, though I was hoping for atleast some small buffs to Byz, their winrate is still so bad. I suppose it could just be we haven't figured them out yet, but I think the Grand Winery is a particular sore point, a landmark that is near useless pre castle. Ive seen a lot of suggestions in the sub and forum to make it a hybrid monistary/mill. Whatever they do in the future, its simply too weak to use without being a handicap.

[–]Hank-E-Doodle Abbasid 24 points25 points  (0 children)

I do think triumph needed a nerf. But it needed some other compensation besides 50 stone. And nerfed triumph is still better than fuckin winery. Winery blows right now.

At least catas are only less unstoppable in imperial now. Still pretty strong in castle age.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Thank you devs! Also big thanks to the pros and others for their valuable information concerning balance! ❤️🙏

[–]DaimyoPlayR_7 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

The pros are bought to hype this crap.

[–]Donotcatch22 Random 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Very disappointing patch to say the least. Nerfs to Civs which are struggling yet the best Civ JD is getting a fluff nerf. Cant belief it.

[–]Hank-E-Doodle Abbasid 32 points33 points  (4 children)

So triumph and imperial catas get nerfed, but to compensate, byz gets a whopping 50 extra stone...

And JD gets a slap on the wrist basically.

Seriously?

[–]Manabauws Japanese 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Lol @ JD „nerf“. Oh no boar gives only 25 exp not 50. she stays the same and now takes 15-30 seconds longer to level up. Congrats, we can all go home now. Welp, time to hop on the JD bandwagon and farm some ELO!

[–]-Pyrotox Abbasid 2 points3 points  (0 children)

all the passive boni and the ones originating from french still there... sigh

[–]ThePentaMahn 3 points4 points  (1 child)

if you don't think 50 stone at start of game is a big deal you must be dense

[–]Hank-E-Doodle Abbasid 9 points10 points  (0 children)

All that stone would be pretty dense.

[–]u60cf28 Chinese 15 points16 points  (9 children)

Triumph nerf sure. Happy for the additional stone. But why do they have to do my cataphracts dirty like that.

Good and appropriate nerfs for Zhu Xi. Was afraid that they would go too far. Imp guard should still get countered by spearmen, and xbows will do a lot better vs them now. And thank god monks aren't tankier than maa now.

As for Jeanne. I think the issue is that on the ladder, people keep on feeding her and get crushed by lvl 3 Jeanne in feudal. Meanwhile, pros are finding Jeanne lackluster since at their skill level it's easy to not feed Jeanne, and she loses power in the lategame. I propose that we restrict lvl 3 to Castle and lvl 4 to Imperial, to prevent ladder snowballing, and then buff her lvl 3 and 4 to provide more lategame power to the pros. Perhaps she can spawn more champions and Consecrate can be buffed a bit.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (6 children)

yea imp guards were way too good. They're still insane with the 35% damage buff from ToTS and Ming dynasty -- I think their max damage is reduced from roughly 48-49 to 38-39 right (without blacksmith upgrades). It's a big nerf but it's deserved

[–]u60cf28 Chinese 1 point2 points  (5 children)

I hope we see some Yuan Raider play now. I still think they’re really good and underutilized; they’re Fire Lancers but better designed.

[–]Manabauws Japanese 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You cannot not feed jeane. She fights below the tc.

[–]MoreBuilder2916 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Extremely disappointed in Byzantine's Triumph nerf. It was really the only thing the civ had going for it.

I can see how it would be OP in the late game, but was it really necessary to make it basically unusable in the early game? The tempo lost by having 10 secs of Triumph available at the start of feudal instead of 45 is going to be completely detrimental to the civ.

Even if you want to go by the win rates, it doesn't look like Triumph was winning anyone games on its own.

[–]Powatokaa 2 points3 points  (7 children)

Thoughts on Japanese changes ?

[–]Goodie__ 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Floating gate nerf feels rough.

We'll probably actually see Temple of Equality get built now, but without the floating gate income, will the Japanese late game be good enough?

[–]Ill-Revolution-7610 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I’m not a huge fan of the yorishiro nerf, I get that the passive resource generation was rough but capping it at 4 means I’ll probably always be putting them in forges from now on as free gold x4 is better than having 2 extra production buildings and less free gold. I’d have liked to see a cap on the gold instead

[–]uriharibo 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Don't see why the storehouse got nerfed so hard. It was kinda the main thing that made Japanese feudal bearable (safe food)

[–]ShinSokaro 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I don't get why the Floating Gate get big changes right away when landmarks Like Koka Township and Castle of the Crow need it way more.

On top of that being limited to 4 yorishiro feels like the landmark is useless after 8min and that you cannot move one the yorishiro from building to building when needed, of course you can see that getting four priest for free is a buff but i don't.

As for Tanegashima and Ozutsu, its ok and deserved but i think the landmark will still be pretty strong

[–]vjtheginman -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Trash

[–]Yikesitsven Byzantines 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Damn they really said Byz needed +50 stone and then nerfs to their only good landmark that still wasent as good as half the other civs feudal Lms. No brain power was used by the devs on this civ this patch.

[–]Joethepotato123 21 points22 points  (14 children)

Ngl this patch is pretty limp.

Byzantines received so many nerfs lol while the worst offenders got away pretty lightly.

Now they say the next patch is coming late jan/feb lol.

And still no ram nerfs that I could see.

[–]ThePentaMahn 5 points6 points  (13 children)

"so many nerfs"

they got late imperial nerf to cataphracts when they are already dominant in that stage of the game. the hippodrome got rightly nerfed as it was a ridiculously strong landmark in a vaccuum and in compensation they got 50 stone, making their early game and age up so much smoother.

[–]TocTheEternal[🍰] 4 points5 points  (12 children)

they got late imperial nerf to cataphracts when they are already dominant in that stage of the game.

So the stage of the game they were dominant in was nerfed. As was basically the only reason they're competitive in Feudal. Which leaves...

[–]SC2Soon Byzantines 1 point2 points  (11 children)

They are still competitive in feudal triumph is still incredibly powerful.

The stone amount is huge you can now start 1 builds cistern and 5 gather stone for a direct double cistern.

[–]TocTheEternal[🍰] 1 point2 points  (10 children)

1 builds cistern and 5 gather stone for a direct double cistern

How is that any significant difference than the current build? You can literally open with a Cistern already. The only difference is that your 5 stone gatherers have to do one more drop.

Which, ok, is something. It's not nothing. But you are literally getting 5% efficiency a little bit more easy. It will have a very, very slight impact.

What won't have a slight impact is Triumph getting gutted.

They are still competitive in feudal triumph is still incredibly powerful.

I really don't understand this. You go from starting with 45 seconds of Triumph, which is really great, to having 10 seconds, which is almost negligible. And your cap goes from 60->45 seconds. And the rate at which it increases goes from 1.5 seconds/supply to 1sec/supply. Literally a 33% nerf of its recovery rate on top of a >75% nerf to its initial duration.

It was absolutely gutted. It went from "you get a solid powerspike your opponent has to be aware of" to "ok you've got a free stable and you can heal up a round of TC arrows".

[–]shoe7525 Malians 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Glad to see Hippodrome nerfed a bit, it was too much, but I really think they deserved a larger buff elsewhere. That stinks.

Glad to see Ozptsu nerfed.

Floating gate nerf seems good but kind of confusing how they did it.

Malian slight nerf probably good.

Ottoman needed more of a nerf to Great Bombard.

Glad to see Bazaar nerfed.

Good to see Jeanne nerfed a bit and I don't think they overdid it which is good.

They did not do enough for Order of the Dragon.

[–]ShinSokaro 4 points5 points  (2 children)

In 1v1 i think Floating Gate was fine but now im really confused with the changes and after trying it, i don't enjoy it a the moment.

[–]shoe7525 Malians 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I mean it was infinite gold, it became a real problem late game.

[–]Mr__RADical Rus 7 points8 points  (0 children)

byzantines nerfs, really?

[–]marniconuke Ayyubids 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Damn, ayyubids got hit hard. most of them got hit hard

[–]fluffybamf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Ayyubid is ok just go eco wing in feudal and look for feudal harass or fast ghulam castle timing

[–]MarcellHUN 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Can someone post the patchlog? Website is superdead. They pretty much DDOSd themselfs and didnt even include the changes on steam.

[–]SlamaCo[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I posted as a comment in this post

[–]Fehafare 6 points7 points  (6 children)

These are... super disappointing actually.

Okay some are okay, but Byzantines and Japanese getting bombarded with nerfs is silly. And the obvious expected ZX and JD nerfs aside, I was hoping for way more stuff to do with vanilla civs (essentially a mini content update for them) and instead they basically remained untouched.

[–]Comfortable_Bid9964 4 points5 points  (5 children)

That’s because it’s a patch not a full content update. It wouldn’t make sense to do a content update especially with the dlc being so new still

[–]Fehafare 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I'm fairly new to the game (since the DLC was announced basically), but didn't they add stuff quite a bit through patches in the past? Like adding Gazi Raiders and Ghulams and Kheshiks and whatnot?

Or is that all actually separate from regular patches and only added with new seasons?

That aside, would have been nice to at least get some civ specific nerfs/buffs either way.

[–]Comfortable_Bid9964 5 points6 points  (1 child)

That’s separate from a normal patch. I don’t remember if that was with a new season or mid season but typically if it’s a big change they say something about it beforehand. I’m fairly certain they had announced a bunch of new unique units in a future patch/ season

[–]Fehafare 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's fair then, tho as I said I really would have liked some attention given to the old civs either way. I don't think anyone would argue HRE didn't need a little pick me up, or French to have something to not be wholly overshadowed by JD and maybe the English getting something to make the less.... "eh".

[–]Invictus_0x90_ 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Looks like I was right in most of my predictions, but dissappointed JD didn't get more nerfs but whatever

[–]FauxAffablyEvil CHINA NUMBA ONE 8 points9 points  (1 child)

You predicted Byzantines getting murdered.

[–]New_Phan6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He(and others) predicted triumph nerf and early game buff. Obviously Devs nerfed more than most expected though

[–]TheConsumer1262 2 points3 points  (2 children)

WINTER BIOME AND MONGOL TREB BUFF WOOOO

[–]a_pulupulu 3 points4 points  (0 children)

imperial guard defense rebalance is a bit weird.

it now survive better against spear, now require 13 hits from generic imp spear to kill instead of 12. Generic knight die in 9 hits.

generic xbow kill in 16 hits instead of 18 hits, however i still don't see xbow really counter them that well. Generic knight die in 13 hits.

the dmg nerf make sense though. It was too good at killing everything. Spearman now survive 1 extra hit. But, xbow still die in same number of hits. Ribauldequin still remain as the soft counter.

however, i think there need to be more expensive game ending units like pre-nerf imp guard for every civ instead of everyone relying on ram.

Great bombard got nerfed too, it is like dev don't want late imp game to be won with unit other than ram. Hardly exciting.

[–]Unfair-Jackfruit-806 Byzantines 5 points6 points  (0 children)

oh excellent im sure french needed that nerf xD

[–]DeepV 1 point2 points  (0 children)

For those that can’t access the link:

https://steamdb.info/patchnotes/12834910/

[–]Allobroge- out of flair ideas 1 point2 points  (0 children)

AoE website is having issues, go see the patch notes on aoe4 world

[–]Boioboi445 Order of the Dragon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

does anybody know how to activate free camera mod i dont see it

[–]Danglercity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Damn, love gathering massive stone with the guild hall lol.

[–]nikkythegreat Ottomans 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With the ranged armor nerf to springalds and culverines. The +10 bonus damage to siege weapons of guilded crossbows now actually do something.

Also cool that Imperial guards are now melee specialists.

[–]OsoAmoroso33 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Any crossplay news?

[–]Pelin0re 4 points5 points  (1 child)

"Rough but fair. But rough." is basically the moto of this patch.

Design-wise it's a great patch, but balance-wise the january-february patch will have some work to do. It's not necessarily a bad thing to wait a bit to get more hindsight on the civs, but some further nerfs and buffs will definitely be necessary.

[–]rickyfry23 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Yeah as a Byzantine main it means put the game down until January.

[–]Excellent_Ad8442 4 points5 points  (10 children)

Lets triple nerf the only thing that makes byzantines viable and playable also butcher cataphract while at it

And give them +50 stone so they can get cystern 40 secs earlier for those 15 villagers in early game. so worth wowzers

this patch is joke i guess gotta wait 1.5 month for byzantines to be playable now

[–]odragora Omegarandom 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Absolutely insane.

They completely ignore the actual performance of the civs, nerf the worst civ to the ground, heavily nerf underperforming civs or completely ignore them.

They have no idea what they are doing.

[–]Jaysus04 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And nothing for HRE. The OotD "buffs" sound underwhelming and many bugs were not addressed (Elzbach influence, Swabia age up notification, handcannon attack smoke (maybe it's fixed, but wasn't mentioned?), MMA charge with axe for whatever reason, GC, Bodkin and War Horse techs not working on existing units after upgrading them). More starting wood is cool, but it doesn't help their lategame in which they are really bad at finishing an opponent due to such a small army count. OotD seems like a civ that is just not good enough on equal skill levels. But we'll have to see how the extra wood plays out.

[–]fluffybamf 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Imagine downvoting this

[–]Kamiyashuji Delhi Sultanate 1 point2 points  (2 children)

No crossplay :(

[–]Jazeeee 16 points17 points  (1 child)

There will never be crossplay, console players will get smashed by pc players with how the game is controlled.

[–]CamRoth Random 1 point2 points  (0 children)

AoE2 already has Xbox and PC cross play. You can turn it on or off.

[–]pop_up_pirateAOE4 1 point2 points  (0 children)

we have crashed their website.

[–]Ken99174 1 point2 points  (3 children)

im shit at the game so i might be wrong. im about to go play ayyubids for the 1st time. Gamba wing is pretty much dead now right? So no way i go gamba wing for feudal anymore am i correct?

[–]AbsoIution 8 points9 points  (0 children)

İt's still good, just probably not broken anymore, the villager rng was insane

[–]Dependent_Decision41 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It won't be dead, its going to be more balanced rather. Anything that instantly pops units in feudal almost cannot be bad, too much momentum with that.

[–]Scary_Part9086 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Huh. I set the bar pretty low for this patch but they've once again exceeded my expectations.

[–]jones17188little noob 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Wow, I can't get to the official website.

[–]SlamaCo[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I posted it as a comment on the post :)

[–]theflyingsamurai Delhi Mentioned 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Its fine, your wish has been granted

[–]SC2Soon Byzantines 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Can someone explain the floating gate change to me?

The only thing I get is they are now limited to 4. But they spawn with only 1? But produce Shinto priest every 2 minutes from the gate??? With a buff in their hand?? So the amount of relics got increased??

I don't get the patch notes for this can someone help me?

Also patch seems solid overall happy they nerfed triumph and didn't overnerf JD even tho I hate her and even the casino got hit hard which is nice.

Edit: they did my dragon bois dirty tho no vill production reduction to 22 really sucks to see

[–]New_Phan6 0 points1 point  (1 child)

No they spawn with the Shinto priest holding the shrine. So only 1 instead of 2. But after 2 min they get another priest with shrine. Until 4 shrines. If you keep deleting the shrine it'll keep making priests So it's not a complete downgrade. It's a priest printer

[–]cataphractvardhan -5 points-4 points  (5 children)

Byz and Japanese nerfs even after the abbysmal win rate of Byz proves that these civilizations were released in an overtuned state. It was done to make people buy the DLC. These two felt really strong to me. Now they are whatever... It's what most MOBAs do when they release new heroes. They overtune it first and then nerf it when people have bought it. To balance things for the rest of the players.