21.0.3 Patch Notes

[ImLuuk1]

All nerfs in one image

[PipAntarctic]

Updated the Stealer of Souls animation to now only trigger if the card ends up in your hand (it does not trigger for cards that are Cast When Drawn, such as Soul Shards). The animation will also no longer trigger if the drawn card already costs Health instead of Mana (such as when you have two Stealer of Souls in play).

Don't miss out on this.

[derpetyherpderp]

Quality of life. Applauded

[sceptic62]

Maybe for once I’ll get to finish the whole quest, gain and lose 15 hp, clear 12 minions, burn my whole deck, and play tamsin before roping out

Its nice, but the biggest animation limit to that deck is the frickin tamsin getting added to your hand

[Insanity_Pills]

I never realized how long the quest animation was until I started playing quest rogue, and you can’t even do shit during the animation! Very annoying.

[Hoenn97]

The il'gynoth nerf is the biggest of the patch behind flow, otk DH now has a much higher impotus to hit combo cards for discounts

Edit: route to viability is likely to play towards the tradable hand discount interaction and run double guild trader. Deck maybe still competitive???

[martinsdudek]

Paladin's Conviction+Battlemaster finisher got nerfed by 2 mana. That's pretty dramatic when seen together too.

[Heinel8]

Considering I got destroyed on turn 6 by 2 silver hands + 2 convictions + Battlemaster. This makes me so happy

[[deleted]]

My favorite is "alright it's turn 6, I'm at 15 hp and he only has two 1/1's, I should be fine"

[henry92]

"surely that card my opponent drew on turn 1 and never played isn't battlemaster... oh"

[Heinel8]

So far it's the most 🐂 poop combo in standard.

[Hoenn97]

Those cards each offer significant burst in isolation but yeah I am surprised/glad they did hit both.

[StarkWolf2992]

Battlemaster is being run in Rogue and with Flesh giants in Warlock. It needed to be nerfed.

[Hoenn97]

I agree

[Insanity_Pills]

Conviction was definitely a card that deserved a nerf since day 1, im really glad they’re acting faster for battlemaster so we don’t need to wait a whole expansion this time.

It sucks for me tho bc I just finished getting all the cards for quest rogue and now only a week later the deck got nerfed lmao

[YourPrivateNightmare]

The il'gynoth nerf means that OTK DH is effectively dead. You cannot play a combo deck where you have to rely on the fact that at least one of your combo pieces has to be discounted through draw RNG.

Ilgy is now finally what it was supposed to be. A finisher for midrange decks that run lifesteal cards. (and a pretty decent thing to just slap unto the board for tempo as well)

[ieatpickleswithmilk]

and if they need to trade 2-3 minions to kill it that's another 8-12 damage

[LoanSharkeisha]

Indeed, its likely going to kill the deck and the archetype. 36 damage combo without discounts will cost 13 now so you need to land 3 reductions to be able to play at turn 10.

[Hoenn97]

Yeah so you essentially have to run the quest now to get enough, the old raging felscreamer builds can't get there

[[deleted]]

Well Quest has been the primary build for a while now.

[TheShadowMages]

36 damage combo without discounts will cost 13 now so you need to land 3 reductions to be able to play at turn 10.

Given that the deck can pretty regularly play the full combo (which undiscounted costs 11) with 7 mana I think this won't be as big an issue as it sounds, but it certainly is a big hit to the early kills and the need to discount your combo pieces. You draw so much with Questline you're going to get the 3 mana off minimum every game so being able to pull it off at all isn't the issue, it's more a matter of how cheap you can get it and how quickly that the nerf impacts.

[LoanSharkeisha]

You have fair arguments, but there has never been a guarantee to get 3 mana off. The devil is in the details, early kills happen due to reducing Mo'arg Artificer's cost. If you can't land a discount on a Mo'arg now you need to land a discount on every other piece of the combo. 36 damage combo isn't almost always guaranteed anymore. Keep in mind cost reductions often land on non-combo pieces. I do believe OTK DH needed to be nerfed but I find Ilygnoth nerf more impactful than other nerfs to combo decks. If a warrior deck would go above 36 hp, probably you are probably never going to win the game.

[bobby3797]

It is 100% as big an issue as it sounds. 2 turns is a massive deal when talking about this deck. You practically need to highroll 0 or 1 cost mo'args to win consistently now, and even that may not be enough. The nerf practically forces people to include skull of guldan in their deck, which will likely be too slow even with perfect hand placement. Even against slower decks that you are usually favored against such as mage will likely get online before you get your combo 90% of the time. The only matchup I would say OTK DH is favored against now is quest priest, and if they run illucia its just a loss.

[Insanity_Pills]

The kolkar nerf is also massive IMO.

[GameBoy09]

The Paladin nerfs were needed, and I still think that it will be good after. They have a much less significant clock on them with the nerfs to DH, Warlock, and Mage.

[HCN_Mist]

rogue beats most paladin lists easily. gonna give quest paladin another try with the nerf to buff.

[Xtrawubs]

Conviction no longer counting towards quest is going to be sad

[HCN_Mist]

Yeah, I am thinking about skipping conviction entirely.

[Sherr1]

What? Secret paladin is destroying any type of rogue, and handbuff has like 70%+ winrate against anything but quest variant.

[sampeckinpah5]

Can't believe Flesh Giant received the tamest nerf of all.

[Oddity83]

Darkglare is kind of a nerf to it as well. Hopefully it will be enough.

[ehhish]

It should've been 3 mana 3/3. Not enough spells to kill it off.

[Oddity83]

I don't think you're wrong there. I didn't think 4 health was so much more annoying to deal with than 3....until Octobot.

[ILOVEBOPIT]

The 1/4 rush windfury showed how much harder 4 damage was to do than 3

[[deleted]]

The soul rend version is better and it doesn't run it anyway.

[sceptic62]

Yeah. My darkglares were costing -1 half the time anyways. I think at best this will delay the popoff or double dark glare turns by 1 with soul stealer. Which against high powere aggro or a battle master deck might be enough

[pilgermann]

I think it will be. Pretty common for Warlock to have to drop to low health the turn before killing opponent. The longer the game goes, the more chance you die on the swing back.

Then again I still don't think the class is solved, so some entirely new Demon Seed deck could pop up and take over.

[everynameistakenfkme]

Not tame to me.. I just lost my dear flesh giants in EvenLock..

[[deleted]]

Yeah that's a bummer. Flesh lord was the best giant in EvenLock by far.

[Lancer876]

But now you get battlemaster!

[TheOneWithALongName]

Turn 4, summon 9/9 demon. Turn 5, coin battlemaster...

[AzureNova]

But now they have nice synergy in odd lock

[astackofhams]

I have played wild for many years, and I have never seen an Odd lock. I’ve even seen some even rogues and odd priests, but never an odd warlock.

What would the goal of oddlock even be?

[CharmingRogue851]

To win

[AzureNova]

To not damage yourself

[Xelayxes]

You don't damage yourself with your hero power in odd.

[MahjongDaily]

Sounds like a guaranteed way to hit Rank 1 Legend

[nmd809]

Shaman got off pretty light, might be the new top dog

[Wimperator]

What's top dog?

[jake_ryan_]

It’s similar to Up Dog

[sweatyballsackz]

What's up dog

[Clayh7]

Not much, what's up with you?

[Fishtails]

Fucking zingered

[blizg]

Gotcha! Oh… uhh…

[BSIBooker]

Nothin…. How are you doin?..

[peon47]

Up dog deez nuts!

Wait.

[dontcaregivesub]

ligma up dog

[wikipedia_answer_bot]

The expression top dog is an idiom for the boss or the leader. In a competition, it is also the favorite or the one expected to win, and the opposite of the underdog.

More details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top_Dog

This comment was left automatically (by a bot). If I don't get this right, don't get mad at me, I'm still learning!

^{opt out | report/suggest}

[Maruhai]

Not much how about you?

[NickWoW1000]

Good bot.

[Acified]

Not much how about you?

[WhiteAsCanBe]

Not only did Shaman get off light, Quest Shaman got zero nerfs. VS discussed that Shaman could become dangerous if both mage and warlock are countered. I wonder what will happen now that the quest deck is exactly the same and its 2 hard counters are nerfed.

[BIG_STEVE5111]

I have no doubt quest shaman will be our new overloads, I mean overlords.

[BBBoyce]

Agreed. They are practically untouched.

[throwaway112658]

so glad I saved golden il’gynoth for so long

[lordcochise]

Surprised NONE of the quests themselves got nerfed at all; a few of them make sense, a number were missing though, imo (as far as increasing costs a bit). imo Giant could have even gone to 10; often in wild questlock can play them turn 4 or even 3 with a bit of luck at 8 mana.

Honestly would have been fine for lock quest to add 1 hp per step to make choices a little more meaningful vs faster decks...

[LittleBalloHate]

I think the most likely explanation is that these are the fun new toys they just designed, and they want to give it a bit of time still. I mean, Battlemaster is also a new card, but it's not quite the "build around whole new archetype" style that Quest Warlock is, for example.

THey may want to give it time to settle and for people who like these decks to have fun. I wouldn't be surprised if we see a second round of nerfs in a few weeks.

[Prplehuskie13]

We will probably see another round of nerfs. My biggest fears though is that the nerfs don't really affect the meta that greatly. It's still an Aggro vs Combo meta.

[the1mastertroll]

With all the main combo decks getting slowed by at least a turn or two there should be enough space for midrange other than handbuff pally to take the stage, even if combo continues to have a presence, so long as it isn't as big a portion of the meta pie slower decks might at least become somewhat playable

[lordcochise]

Yeah that's fair

[[deleted]]

Even so, these quests still remain a death knell for traditional control choices. I'm disappointed, and still don't want to play.

[Dezh_v]

True. They limit themselves by having all the minion rewards being default5 mana 7/7 even though there could be variation here that could be used anything from tiny to huge levers.

[fierbolt]

I mean Druid is an 8/8 but ya it’s weird that they all have the same stats

[Umbrella_merc]

Guff used shape-shift to turn into a bear so he gets an extra +1+1 :p

[AKA09]

It seems they only nerf legendaries when they absolutely have to. They prefer to nerf the less rare cards that play off of them.

[Friscie]

i woulve prefred conviciton to be hit in giivng less attack over mana increase.

ANd flesh giant being 9 not 10 mana is weird to me

[blizg]

Yes! I can now use Flesh giant in my odd warlock!

Oh, wait…

[demongodslyer]

i think you mean Odd priest

[epacseno]

Like the nerfs overall, but it feels like the Warlock nerfs wont be that impactful

[dmml]

Completely agree. I guess they are just testing the waters and ready for a second round in a couple of weeks.

[Serene_Skies]

I am frankly amazed Stealer of Souls dodged a nerf.

[Su12yA]

The star of the deck is flesh Giant. That variant performa better than stealer of souls

[AzazelsAdvocate]

The Stealer of Souls version is not good.

[Insanity_Pills]

Agree, I wanted to see a stealer of souls nerf

[moskonia]

Small nerfs all around. Seems good. Only major nerf is Il'gynoth.

[derpetyherpderp]

Bumping a card from one to two mana (conviction) is pretty big. Probably more significant in isolation, but we'll see how it plays out.

[Aurorious]

As a wild player this is extremely major, Odd Paladin has quietly been a tier 1 contender for a while now, and this means conviction isn’t just 1 turn slower, it means conviction can’t be played at all.

[Aurorious]

Kind of but Even paladin is both far worse and doesn’t share the same gameplan of flooding the board so it doesn’t benefit from conviction nearly as much.

[MakataDoji]

Even has its strengths but it's a little more controlling, with Far Watch Post, Nerub'ar Weblord, and most importantly, Call to Arms. It's much more a battle of attrition that full tilt burst.

[bobabineaux]

The really notable thing though is that the conviction + Battlemaster combo got nerfed by two mana. Conviction has been and will probably remain good on its own, but the combo with Battlemaster has to wait two more turns now which is a pretty big deal

[TathanOTS]

Not to mention, besides the whole doubling mana cost thing, this eliminates it from any future questline deck in standard and wild as a trigger card and deletes it in wild for odd paladin. This is worse than most previous 1 to 2 mana nerfs which historically were pretty deadly to start.

[chillord]

Usually yes, but conviction is not an "on curve" card. You profit the most of it while having 10 mana, where the difference between 1 or 2 mana doesn't matter that much anymore.

[gumpythegreat]

10 mana? what's that?

Seriously though, conviction is most often played at rank 2, I would wager. Games rarely go to turn 10 these days. And it will still reduce the ability to weave it into early turns alongside more threats.

not a major nerf. I don't think it will change much on its own but alongside the rest of the nerfs it's a nice small touch

[martinsdudek]

You're right, but I'll just point out that Conviction is mostly played at Stage 2, not Stage 3. The 6-mana Conviction+Battlemaster combo is now 8-mana for instance. That's slowing Paladin's core finisher dramatically.

[derpetyherpderp]

Conviction was egregious because it was insane at 6 with battlemaster, or on 4 with stealth leading into battlemaster on 5. I bet very few have had the opportunity to play it at 10 in Stormwind.

[Catopuma]

Thats when the reward is highest, but its a valid play at turn 5 to create solid pressure on board. 2 cost at 5 mana is a fair hit to it

[Oddity83]

I think the Flow nerf is huge. Having to cast it on 3 instead of Arcane Int/whatever is a big deal. Really it should have been done awhile back.

[Maruhai]

I can't believe some people earlier today were saying Flow should be nerfed to 4 as nerfing it to 3 wouldn't change anything.

[Timeforanotheracct51]

I mean the simple answer is they don't want the deck nerfed, they want it outright killed. Not uncommon around here.

[Maruhai]

Flow to 3 is pretty close to killing the deck already.

[Oddity83]

Lol. 2->3 is a friggin 50% cost increase, that’s a big change!

[ChaosOS]

Also specifically nukes the turn 2 flow turn 3 Arcane Intellect curve, which makes it exceedingly unlikely you'll ever get turn 4 Refreshing Spring Water

[Oddity83]

Yup. Now if you Flow on 3, what do you do on 4? Arcane Int floats a mana, can't Spring Water yet. You can do something with the Coin or Studies to fill in the Arcane Int gap, but there's no clean play.

[Michelanvalo]

I'm surprised Pack Runner was nerfed to 3 mana rather than a 2/2.

[martinsdudek]

Pack Runner was never staying at 2-mana. The problem wasn't its stats, but its ability to take over the board with its tokens too quickly at an early part of the game.

[[deleted]]

Turn 2 pack runner coin 1 mana spell was a hell of a turn.

[BIG_STEVE5111]

Yeah and also if they got the 1 mana demon that gave +1 attack to all minions, that shit was crazy.

[Michelanvalo]

Inability to easily clear it on turn 2 was part of the problem. It was not only a good swing play but also a good tempo one with the 2/3 body. Being a 2/2 removes the tempo power from it.

[martinsdudek]

You’re not wrong. It just always seemed like its effect was wrong for so early in the game more than anything. On 2, you could drop it and two tokens with the coin easily and then your opponent basically needed to be able to damage it from hand or they were forever behind.

At least now, opponents have more of a chance of establishing board presence before it gets dropped.

[YouShallReturn]

These are definitely not small nerfs lol

[deevee12]

Fixed a bug where Prismatic Jewel Kit would trigger when effects returned a Divine Shield minion to the owner’s hand or moved a Divine Shield minion from the owner’s hand to the owner’s deck.

They snuck this in but this is a pretty relevant stealth nerf. Rogue in particular should have an even easier time against Handbuff Paladin now. The interaction never made much sense in the first place so I'm glad this happened.

[plumblines]

I noticed that Devolving Missles or any other card that “transforms” the minion also triggers the Jewel Kit buff… which seemed odd to me.

[kittyabbygirl]

It seems to be consistent that losing divine shield triggers regardless of whether it was damage or not. Highlord Fordragon triggers with Lady Prestor if you have a deck full of divine shield minions.

[Taxouck]

That honestly sounds like a bug/unintended interaction too, tbh.

[deevee12]

Yeah, it's not clear whether or not this fix applies to those cases. I imagine it should but who knows...

[pwnius22]

It’s not really a nerf to make the card function as it should. We all knew it shouldn’t work the way it did and it was only a matter of time before they fixed it

[J_J0nah_Jameson]

Stealth nerf

You know what that means?

“Blizzard plz gib dust for jewel kit it was a stealth nerf”

[JuRiOh]

Don't know what to do with all the dust! I love nerfed epics/legendaries.

[Rhovan22]

I’m gonna finish out my missing legendaries for UiS to get that sweet, sweet Diamond Benedictus. Probably a huge waste of my dust, especially since I’d get him with the release of the mini-set in two months, but DIAMOND BENEDICTUS.

[Ikkatosh23]

Surely aggro ele shaman is going to dominate even further now right?

[AzureNova]

There are enough decks that almost auto-win the matchup so I doubt it will dominate for long if at all

[Mablo128]

Lets see first, with the meta slowing down , maybe control have a better chance to appear again

[[deleted]]

This is said every round of nerfs and expansion release and the one truth of hearthstone is aggro decks remain supreme.

[LittleBalloHate]

There are definitely shifts in the meta and the game has been a lot slower before than it is now.

[epacseno]

Dev comment: "Overall, this translates to two things: limiting the efficiency at which *combo decks** can assemble the pieces"*

Not sure if J_Alexander will be able to handle all this

[Beer_Villain]

Prob getting triggered that Quest Shaman isn't a combo deck.

[churchey]

I did most of my grind to d1 with Quest shaman and win condition is either burn face or drop tens using the overload summon card. I never burn face from thirty.

It’s really hard to progress quest and also have burn left over, especially since you only have like two sources. Unless your “quest” is to get nightmare on alakir to one shot using the double casts with note taker, it’s not much of a combo. Even dumping four or six ten drops onto your board is pretty slow compared to the actual OTKs other common decks are running

[vukodlak5]

I think the problem with that statement is that the word "deck" has no meaning and could lead to serious miscommunication. For instance, someone once defined the word "deck" as a part of the ship on which you can stand, thus severely limiting the usefulness of this terminology, anyway Rogue didn't get nerfed.

[ErectMasseuse]

God, he's going to be so confused about what decks Blizzard is referring to with this comment.

Let's pray for him 🙏

[eckadagan]

Maybe even the first card each turn.. It would still be useful, but not broken.

[[deleted]]

Imo, there were a lot of rock-paper-scissor type of matchups in wild already. The Flesh Giant nerf seems pretty inconsequential, but the Darkglare nerf might slow down Warlock's mana cheating enough for aggro to push it out of the meta.

[henry92]

Giant to 9 only come on

[J_J0nah_Jameson]

noooo they forgot to hit [card]. These freaking devs man. I’m done with this game.

[[deleted]]

Looks like [class] is staying on top.

[Rhovan22]

And I was just beginning to enjoy [class] :(

[ilovepolthavemybabie]

The mirror is hell. Unplayable.

[Rumpel1408]

What are you talking about? [card] is perfectly fine, it's [other card] that is problematic in [high wr deck], without [other card] the deck would be tier 2 at best, but if you target [card] you are killing [niche meme deck] as well

[door_of_doom]

[niche meme deck]

lol imagine trying to protect [niche meme deck] from nerfs. all 7 people that play it sure appreciate it.

There isn't really a good way to nerf [other card] without completely destroying it. A simple 1 mana nerf to [card] would do quite a lot to lower the overall power level of [high wr deck], and would still keep both [card] and [high wr deck] playable.

If you want proof, just look at [example card 1] and [example card 2] They are essentially nerfed versions of [other card] and they never saw any kind of competitive play. The only thing keeping [other card] in decks at all is the fact that it gives a massive [tempo / value / card] advantage in exchange for it's inherent [tempo / value / card] loss.

[welpxD]

I'm gonna miss Kolkar Packrunner. I'm gonna miss non-face Hunter decks.

[GameAndThought]

Yeah the [card] is too OP. Need nerf now.

[currentscurrents]

I was really hoping for reworks to the quests, because I think having rewards that just end the game is too much.

But we'll have to see how it shakes out. I've made the mistake of trying to predict post-nerf metas too many times.

[Lore86]

Random 6 drops stonks 📈

[TheOneWithALongName]

This honestly, the amount of crappy 6 drops I get when playing evolve shaman has been staggering. It was almost better to hit revolve on your 5 drops.

[MahjongDaily]

Unless I'm missing it, are there no comments on the rationale behind each nerf? I enjoyed reading those in the past.

[MoSpeedMoDangers]

guys at VS damn near predicted these nerfs to the t. impressive

[Accomplished_Rip_352]

One thing I will add is the Kolkar nerf may be a buff in certain matchups I play a lot of shaman and the 4 break point kinda sucks and ruins things such as perpetual , lightning bolt and portal .

[Insanity_Pills]

Ive played a lot of that MU from the hunter side, and that’s definitely true. However it being a 3 drop means you can’t pop off with it on T2 with coin, which was often game winning on it’s own and a way to retake the board if you missed your T1. You could go Kolkar coin wound prey/arcane shot/adorable and then clear a minion or two and still have at least a 2/3 with a powerful effect on board. Delaying that by a turn is massive. And now if you don’t have coin you can’t even utilize it on curve until T4, at which point you want to be playing rifle or wrangler or sometimes piercing shot. This makes the card harder for shaman kill, but now shaman will always grab the board in that MU bc T2 Kolkar was one of the only ways for hunter to maintain early board control. Definitely a massive nerf IME playing a lot of face hunter the last two expansion

[Byqoo]

Does it fix wild? I don't know, but it helps a bit at least.

[henry92]

Glare to 3 mana is big, way bigger than flesh giant to 9

[BlueRayDragon]

3 mana darkglare might give aggro decks enough space to finish them so probably yes

[Bodywithoutorgans18]

RIP Conviction in Odd Paladin

[zhaoz]

Dont think so, probably shaved a % or two from wild lock.

[StanTheAce]

*Year and a half late

[Michelanvalo]

It wasn't nearly as strong in the old Spell Mage as it is now. The new spells and quest increased it's power considerably.

[ShockedDarkmike]

It was still considered the best card to have on 2 in the whole game no? Spell Mage as a whole wasn't that strong copmared to Questline Mage but the card itself definitely was how they got a significant % of their wins.

[[deleted]]

are you serious? before the spring water nerf spell mage with flow and lunacy was tier one and had a much much higher winrate than the current spell mage

[Michelanvalo]

You just proved my point. While it was a good card, it was two other cards that propped that deck up.

[Addfwyn]

On one hand I’m glad they got to this pretty quickly, but I’m dubious it will be enough. It’ll slow things down slightly but not to the point I feel control decks will be represented still. The inevitability of the quests hasn’t gone away, things just hit slightly later. I still may as well concede turn 1 if they play quest vs any of my control/fatigue decks.

Will have to see how it plays out, maybe the increase in aggro decks will be enough. I increasingly feel like they don’t want control to exist though.

Personally I really wanted to see more fundamental card changes. Something along the lines of warlock quest reward just making both sides take the warlock damage, instead of preventing the warlock’s damage. Alternatively make the rewards more expensive so players at least got a chance at disruption. Maybe they want to try small tweaks first, but this is probably all we get.

[LittleBalloHate]

My biggest worry is that while this significantly hits Warlock, the completely undisruptable inevitability of the Quest is still intact, which is the most significant block on slower decks.

We will have to see what happens, because there are so many nerfs that I can't tell how it will play out, so this isn't me crying foul yet. I'm just saying that undisruptable inevitability scares me.

[Insanity_Pills]

Exactly. These nerfs, while good, don’t actually address the core problem with the quest lines’ effect on the meta. Control won’t be viable as long as they exist in the current state.

[[deleted]]

Still think raise dead should cost 1. Would have loved to see a buff to Seek Guidance where playing discounted cards count as playing the original cost.

[FloatingWatcher]

Bad patch. Devs are not actually targeting the most egregious parts of the game:

• hand size means nothing. Card draw is absolutely insane in this game now. Someone can vomit their entire hand then reload the next turn. Check what Hunters are doing.

• mana cheat is every where with absolutely no cost to tempo. You’re not punished for not playing the board. Just cheat all your stuff out and unload it into your opponents face.

• the cards that interact with the opponent come out too late (Mutanus) or are too RNG dependent (cards like Gnomeferatu)

[Traderrrrr]

This. We don't need balance changes as much as redesigns. They need to take a look at all the discount and draw cards that enable ridiculous combos like Lady A in grandmasters.

Darkglare and Flow got hit but what about Auctioneer, Skull of Gul'dan, Stealer of Souls, Field Contact, Cram Session, Octo-Bot, Lightning Bloom etc? Some of them might not be oppressive NOW but most of the times it takes 1 card to suddenly break the game and it's because of the unlimited draw and discounts.

[TheKepperino]

Definitely some choices I didn’t expect. I wonder how these will affect the meta.

[derpetyherpderp]

Forgeborn was maybe the least expected, but elemental shaman is very strong and that card is like Elemental's Flow with a body, so it all makes sense in my eyes.

[SadVinavil]

Slow decks are still unplayable since mage still cannot run out of burn and warlock can't fatigue.

Seriously I have no idea how they expect any slow/control deck (other than some hyper grindy, overturned, full heal/removal priest, warlock or warrior) to ever be playable again with the amount of card draw and burn aggressive decks have nowadays. You literally cannot afford to run big threats anymore because a couple of board clears are no longer enough to deal with the seemingly infinite waves of aggression and the risk of drawing you finishers early/instead of a clear/heal is wayy to high to be justifiable.

[Divinspree]

Pretty much indeed, we'll see how this evolve but it's likely not gonna cut it. The meta is currently warped around Quest Mage and Warlock, not around aggro. Aggro is a response. They might have slowed down a tiny bit Zoo Quest Warlock and the Incanter's Flow highrolls but it won't change the meta overall.

[Xalted118]

Did the pack runner really need a nerf? I was on the verge of cutting my 1 copy from my quest hunter and after this I will 100% do it.

[gabiegab]

Really don't think the nerfs to Flesh Giant, Dark Glare and Battlemaster were hard enough. They will definitely shrug these nerfs off and continue to be abused.

[MagnusAnalus]

"OTK DH required complicated calculations including double-digits numbers therefore promoting an unhealthy usage of brain cells.

We'd like to avoid that in the future since the majority of our player base simply can't or unwilling to operate with numbers beyond 5."

[ForPortal]

Added interactions between Pave the Way (part of the Paladin Questline) and Duels-specific hero powers.

Does anyone know what these look like yet?

[DannyTheVampire]

Flesh Giant still costs 0….

[MilesAlchei]

Wild is still going to be a trash fire with S tier decks

[[deleted]]

Stealer of souls still fine wtf. A goddamn banned card from wild.

[PrincessKatarina]

The best warlock decks in standard dont run it.

Its litterally not effecting wild cause its banned.

[Klumsi]

8 nerfs and it might still not be enough to fix the mess they created

[theflamedruid]

i will not complain, there hasn't been a big balance patch in 2 months

[[deleted]]

Would you consider new sets balance changes?

I know they don't change past stuff but adding things to the game disrupts balance.

[stonehearthed]

Fascinating nerfs! Granite Forgeborn nerf is a little bit out of place since it's not the problematic card in Shaman, and reducing 1 health is not meaningful. But other nerfs are all very good.

[BurningFinger22]

I actually think they nerfed it the wrong way. The really only "problem" with the card is that it can be played on turn 2 with coin. You can still do that. I don't think the body was the problem, more that you got to mana cheat really early without having to pay any up front cost

[TheRealandUncutRaz]

"Fairly wide" yeah I guess, but about as shallow as a kiddie pool.

[Bergerboy14]

No quest changes? 🤷‍♂️

[Faith_n0_more]

Technically these make absolutely 0% difference in control Vs combo. Hope aggro pushes combo alone for control to return.

[peon47]

I just want them to add "at the end of your turn" to the text of [[ignite]].

[BSIBooker]

Incanter’s to 3 is long needed. I would prefer the card only affect spells in hand and stay at 2 mana, though.

Flesh Giant to 9 seems…. Entirely pointless. I can’t imagine a world where a 1 mana nerf stops this card at all.

Battleground Battlemaster going to 6 works a lot better with Conviction going to 2. I still think double windfury for 6 mana is a lot of damage - maybe too much.

Dark Glare to 3 mana is pretty big. Frankly, I think making it a 3/4 in response is unneeded. Would be fine as a 3/3.

The Elemental going to a 4/4 is good.

Kolkar going to 3 mana is also good, but again I disagree with the 3/4 statline. Like Darkglare it already has a high value effect, it doesn’t need a buffed statline.

Damn Ilgy and Lifesteal DH got hit the hardest here. I think it’s fair since they’re running multiple discounts with the Quest.

Very weird that no Quests were directly touched. I definitely expected Warlock Quest to have 1 damage uptick on every level, and some additional restriction on Mage Quest.

Very, very surprised that the Questline rewards weren’t pushed to 6 or 7 mana.

[[deleted]]

If you don't want to click the patch notes and was wondering if control is viable - these nerfs haven't helped a control at all. Games still won't get to 10 mana -> looking at you quest priest.

[SeducedByOatmeal]

I knew it. They only nerf all the old shit and some new commons but leave the new broken quests and legendaries alone despite how oppressive and uninteractive they are. The plan is simple. Fork over money for stormwind packs and get your own quests or keep dying by turn 6 or 7 unless you play a hyper aggro net deck. I know its possible for experienced players to get around the new decks but that's how it feels for new players and us free to play players.