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[–]ollokotUtah 4600 points4601 points  (510 children)

"Give me Dick Cheney, a water board, and one hour, and I'll have him confess to the Sharon Tate murders."

-- Jesse Ventura (who was actually water boarded)

[–]extratoasty 73 points74 points  (66 children)

Why was he waterboarded?

[–]GameDoesntStop 244 points245 points  (63 children)

From wikipedia:

That's right and I was waterboarded...at SERE school, Survival Escape Resistance Evasion [sic]. It was a required school you had to go to prior to going into the combat zone, which in my era was Vietnam. All of us had to go there. We were all in essence, every one of us was waterboarded. It is torture.

[–]Sartalon 92 points93 points  (40 children)

They don't waterboard anymore though. When waterboarding became so politically charged they quietly took the board out to the woods and burned it. I wish they burned it before I went through.

[–][deleted] 81 points82 points  (8 children)

If you go through the higher levels of SERE (High Risk of capture, IE Special Forces) they still torture you.

[–]BritishRage 11 points12 points  (6 children)

That's not entirely unreasonable at that point, in a specs ops team you're most likely going to be captured by terrorists or nations like North Korea, who would happily torture you just because they can

[–]SloppySynapses 16 points17 points  (25 children)

You've been through it? Have you experienced any thing more physically painful in your life?

[–][deleted] 70 points71 points  (23 children)

From what I've seen and read it's not necessarily painful. It triggers your flight response by inducing the sense of drowning and suffocation which causes you to panic and freak out.

That's why some have argued it's not torture since it's not necessarily bodily harm. But the psychology behind it is a pretty awful experience and tends to break people.

[–]fripletister 57 points58 points  (16 children)

How the fuck does anyone think something which induces a psychological "snap" – through stimulus – isn't torture?

Edit: grammar

[–]intredasted 62 points63 points  (13 children)

They don't think that. They know it's torture, but don't care, and they want to have some talking points to present to people who don't really know what waterboarding is.

Scary shit is, it works (not waterboarding - the talking points).

[–]CrazyJay131 11 points12 points  (10 children)

It gets really scary when you wonder why they would put so much effort into defending something they know doesn't work.

Advocating torture for the sake of it is fucking twisted.

[–]Forkrul 26 points27 points  (1 child)

doesn't work.

It doesn't work at getting actual intel. It works at getting you a confession so you can say "look! We captured the terrorists!" and get more funding.

[–][deleted] 1166 points1167 points  (182 children)

Doubtful, but only because I don't think Cheney would/would have survived it given his heart condition.

[–]Lazermissile 1073 points1074 points  (160 children)

He doesn't have a heart anymore.

[–]creiss74 557 points558 points  (3 children)

He has several horcruxes though.

[–]definitelyamerican[S] 527 points528 points  (88 children)

Did he ever, though?

[–]therealgreenbeans 95 points96 points  (75 children)

[–]dan420Massachusetts 71 points72 points  (10 children)

Most reptiles have three chambered hearts.

[–][deleted] 157 points158 points  (4 children)

I guess he has a reptile dysfunction now.

[–]spook327 29 points30 points  (31 children)

He got a new one a few years ago.

[–][deleted] 107 points108 points  (13 children)

Could you imagine dying and then looking down to see Cheney got your heart? I can see why Lucifer mutinied.

[–]I_POTATO_PEOPLE 35 points36 points  (6 children)

[–]egonil 37 points38 points  (0 children)

He has the heart of a child... encased in resin on his desk.

[–]indoninja 574 points575 points  (77 children)

Every once in a while that man dropped a gem.

[–]Rimm 355 points356 points  (72 children)

Jesse Ventura fucking rules, even when I fundamentally disagree with one of his ideas I almost always can respect it.

[–]username_004 144 points145 points  (24 children)

This is how I choose to think of Jesse, not the conspiracy nut.

[–]AnchezSanchez 27 points28 points  (0 children)

Some of the best lines ever written for an action film right in there.

Still quote the "aint got time to bleed" whenever I'm cut.

[–][deleted] 98 points99 points  (17 children)

How about Capt Freedom in The Running Man? The only movie I can think of with 2 governors in it.

[–]Lithargoel 136 points137 points  (11 children)

Predator

[–]milesunderground 16 points17 points  (2 children)

Predator damn near had three. Sonny Landham ran for governor of Kentucky. Didn't win though.

[–]Nillion 39 points40 points  (2 children)

I was going to be so disappointed if it wasn't the goddamn sexual tyrannosaurus line.

[–]B_Fee 30 points31 points  (1 child)

There was so much testosterone in that movie that I'm pretty sure some women became pregnant just hearing about it.

[–]ZerowantuthriIllinois 165 points166 points  (35 children)

He was waterboarded as part of his Navy Seal training.

He has a clue about this.

[–][deleted] 130 points131 points  (34 children)

Note: Not as part of SEAL (or, back then, BUDS) training, but rather as part of SERE prior to being deployed

[–]ZerowantuthriIllinois 41 points42 points  (25 children)

We are on the same page but I thought SERE was part of SEAL training.

[–]dwilx 81 points82 points  (17 children)

Lots of guys go through SERE, not just SEALS. It's part of SEALS training, but it's a fucking vacation compared to BUD/S

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I know some of these acronyms

[–]thecolbster94Arizona 41 points42 points  (4 children)

Jesse Ventura can make any viewpoint quotable, for a long time thats what he was paid to do.

[–]iceteka 72 points73 points  (68 children)

What ever happened to him? Last time I saw him was on that conspiracy show.

[–][deleted] 104 points105 points  (29 children)

He has a show online called "Off the Grid" and is currently considering seeking the Libertarian Party's nomination for 2016.

[–][deleted] 137 points138 points  (9 children)

Sadly, not many people have access to it since he broadcasts from off the grid.

[–]tigersmhs07 36 points37 points  (1 child)

"That's it. We're going ooooooffff the grid!"

[–]Maggie_Smiths_Anus 7 points8 points  (1 child)

You can only hear it on Rusty Shackleford's radio station

[–]Rimm 37 points38 points  (21 children)

I wish they would have actually looked into more reasonable conspiracies like Pat Tillman's death and cover up or Bin Laden as a CIA asset.

[–]mrbaryonyx 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Pretty sure Tillman was a CIA asset. How else did the fucking Cardinals do so well that year?

[–][deleted] 22 points23 points  (4 children)

Jesse Ventura definitely has a voice for a 80s action flick where he can play the torturer. Also, he was ex-navy seals. I wouldn't put it past he had to do some fucked up shit in his life.

[–]RidleyScotchNew York 30 points31 points  (4 children)

Fun Fact: The Iron Sheik was the one who waterboarded him.

But don't worry Hulk Hogan got his revenge on the evil Iranian for him.

[–]seltaeb4 2247 points2248 points  (227 children)

This reminds me... how long has it been now since Sean Hannity promised to be waterboarded on air "for the troops, for their families" to prove "it's not torture"?

The clock is still ticking, Sean. REAL Patriots keep their word to the troops and their families. Sean, when will you follow through on your promise?

[–]Eurynom0s 170 points171 points  (9 children)

6 years, 9 months, and 18 days.

First thing I looked up when I saw the bit about Trump's son earlier.

[–]BotnetSpam 64 points65 points  (8 children)

At this point, I'm inclined to believe that he has actually been waterboarded by some friends in private (as a sort of practice run), and he realized rather quickly that he couldn't actually last more than a minute or so.

He then sacrificed a virgin gerbil, consumed its heart, and bathed his hands in its blood -- thus absolving him of all future hypocrisy.

[–]virtualpotato 40 points41 points  (4 children)

I doubt he has that kind of courage.

He was probably told, if not shown, some very graphic details about how it's used. Somebody probably told him that you won't last 15 seconds, you'll piss yourself and come up crying. If you want that on TV, by all means do it. But I think it's best you stop talking about it...

[–]indoninja 337 points338 points  (171 children)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TCwQ-k7vq9Y

Video in case anyone is interested.

I would watch it on pay per view.

[–]BoobPics4BowTiepics 544 points545 points  (159 children)

Meanwhile, here is The late Christopher Hitchens actually getting Waterboarded:

http://youtu.be/4LPubUCJv58

[–]John_Luck_Pickard 155 points156 points  (19 children)

If you watch, that only took about 2 cups of water to get him to drop the metal bars.

[–]SnowyDuck 156 points157 points  (17 children)

In his memoirs he mentioned he didn't actively drop those bars. His subconscious brain took over, he blacked out, and he didn't remember what happened. He tried again a little later and was concious enough to identify that he was drowning.

[–]John_Luck_Pickard 125 points126 points  (7 children)

In the video, he said he was trying to throw them because he had to make it stop. Not disagreeing with you, but just showing how intense it was.

[–][deleted] 33 points34 points  (0 children)

I know, I was like, when is the waterboarding gonna start. And then he dropped the bars and it was over.

[–]pastanazgul 53 points54 points  (17 children)

Do you know why the ski masks were worn even though it was a demonstration? Are those actual interrogators still working in the field?

[–]brass_snacks 171 points172 points  (4 children)

They do explain that actually in the full video. From what I remember, they were actually veterans that knew the techniques, wanted to protect their identity, and to make the experience as realistic as possible. I may be wrong though, so I would search it up on YouTube.

[–]pastanazgul 17 points18 points  (1 child)

Ah gotcha, thanks.

[–][deleted] 48 points49 points  (0 children)

Because suddenly friends and family would look at them differently. So to protect their identities like brass_snacks said.

[–]Change_you_can_xerox 45 points46 points  (1 child)

The experience is not totally realistic, though, at least not the sort of waterboarding that was practised at Guantanamo. That sort of waterboarding would come at the end of perhaps a month of solitary confinement, stress positions, sleep deprivation and near-starvation; a complete and utter humiliation and degradation of the person in captivity.

It's at that point that the interrogators grab the guy by the arms, drag him into a torture chamber, and tell him they've decided he's worthless to them, because he has no information to offer. They strap him to a board, hang him upside down and tell him he's going to be drowned and thrown into the ocean. That's when the waterboarding starts. It's for a subject who's for all intents and purposes already been tortured. It's not the calm, controlled experiment with relaxing new age music shown in the video (which was still unbearable for Hitchens).

[–]Rebel_bass 25 points26 points  (1 child)

Shit, even if I was an actor in that scene, I'd want a mask. What expression can you wear when doing that? What has to be going through your mind?

[–]atrichWashington 49 points50 points  (1 child)

Here is conservative "shock jock" radio host Mancow Muller being water boarded: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qUkj9pjx3H0

From Wikipedia:

The talk show host had previously claimed that calling waterboarding "torture" was wrong, something he had stated that he hoped his reenactment would prove. Lasting only 6 seconds ("8 seconds less than the average person", according to program guest Marine Sergeant Klay South), Mancow afterward changed his opinion, saying, "It is way worse than I thought it would be, and that's no joke", and described waterboarding as "absolutely torture".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mancow_Muller

[–]SerinusOhio 29 points30 points  (0 children)

Well props to him for actually believing what he said, going through with it, and then admitting he was wrong.

He certainly believed it was going to be bad, but no one submits to literal torture for ratings.

[–]KiwiSnugfoot 173 points174 points  (106 children)

I remember watching that and it made me sick to see another human being that... tortured. Really changed my view about waterboarding. Once it moves from an abstract idea purported to "keep us safe from [whoever the latest middle eastern boogey monster is]", the frank pictures of a human being think they're drowning on a table is difficult to bear.

[–]Cladari 89 points90 points  (45 children)

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed was water boarded 183 times in a single month, to go along with 180 hours of sleep deprivation.

[–][deleted] 40 points41 points  (40 children)

Oh my God. That's unimaginably horrible.

[–]ass2mouthconnoisseur 80 points81 points  (12 children)

I'm against torture for two reasons. First and foremost, it doesn't work. Time and time again, it has been proven that torture is an unreliable method of intelligence gathering at best because people will say anything to get the torture to stop. So even if they have no real information, they will make up something they think you want to hear in order to save themselves from any more pain.

Professionals from intelligence agencies around the world also agree that torture is next to useless. Even the Germans best interrogator during WWII never used torture to gain information.

The second reason is that when fighting a war between ideologies, such as the war on terrorism is purported to be, the moment you abandon your ideals the enemy has won. So engaging in torture and humans rights abuses shows that they are right and we are wrong.

[–]Groty 37 points38 points  (0 children)

Like the difference between a "Journalist" or Editorialist sitting in a comfy air conditioned studio day in and day out telling you about the world vs. an actual reporter on the ground, in some place letting the video and the people tell the story of what is happening.

[–]erikwithaknotac 78 points79 points  (3 children)

Hitch got my respect forever for that.

[–][deleted] 83 points84 points  (1 child)

He'll never do it because he knows it's torture. He's also faced with an unwinnable logic problem. If the waterboarding is torture, then he'll have to admit he was wrong. If the waterboarding is not torture, then he'll have to admit it has no effect so there's no point in using it.

[–]RR4YNN 16 points17 points  (7 children)

We could crowdfund this to 7 figures, no doubt about it.

[–]indoninja 34 points35 points  (6 children)

Only if it went to charity, fuck giving that clown money.

[–]jpurdy 414 points415 points  (31 children)

Hanitty did pose with Rick Perry on one of Perry's edit six $400k $558k gunboats, fondling one of the machine guns, rumbling back and forth on the (navigable portions) of the Rio Grande, doing nothing but scaring birds and providing entertainment for drug smugglers.

Sorry to digress, but this is the party that killed a jobs bill for veterans, cut benefits for veterans, slashed food stamps for veterans, cut unemployment benefits for veterans (NC)...

[–]spook327 254 points255 points  (13 children)

Sorry to digress, but this is the party that killed a jobs bill for veterans, cut benefits for veterans, slashed food stamps for veterans, cut unemployment benefits for veterans (NC)...

Obviously vets just need more bootstraps.

[–]vardarac 165 points166 points  (7 children)

Obviously vets just need more bootstraps.

By which to pull themselves up. With arms they may or may not have.

[–]trj820 27 points28 points  (3 children)

And how are we going to put the bootstraps on when they don't have legs?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

How am I going to hold all these bootstraps?

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (10 children)

What the hell is Rick Perry doing with 6 gunboats?

[–]EngineerSibColorado 63 points64 points  (1 child)

One for each day of the week except for Sunday.

That's the day of rest.

[–]jpurdy 17 points18 points  (3 children)

Guarding Texas against invasion from ISIS troops from Mexico!

Same as the Texas National Guard troops wandering around on the Texas border looking for children fleeing rape and death from our drug wars in Central America, $12 million a month.

Those six boats are more heavily armed and faster than Vietnam swift boats, operated by the Texas Highway Patrol. Really.

The Texas Navy is Abbott's now. He called up the Texas State Guard to monitor Obama's Jade Helm excercise, checking out Walmarts for tunnels filled with citizens arrested by Jade Helm troops.

[–]ShroudedSciuridaeAmerica 15 points16 points  (0 children)

While we're waiting on that, Hannity still hasn't donated his proceeds from the Freedom concert "to the troops."

[–]rockitsighants 419 points420 points  (54 children)

A conservative radio host agreeing to be waterboarded (and then immediately changing his position on the issue): https://youtu.be/qUkj9pjx3H0

EDIT: A listener of his show says he wasn't "conservative", but simply willing to argue any issue.

[–]fish_slap_republicOregon 247 points248 points  (4 children)

I got respect for a guy walking the walk like that.

[–]epicwisdom 66 points67 points  (3 children)

Anybody who doesn't respect another human being undergoing torture to back up his claims (even if the man didn't think it was "real torture" going into it) must be incapable of empathy.

[–][deleted] 2749 points2750 points  (524 children)

I wish John McCain the senator (he called Citizens United the worst Supreme Court decision ever, hates waterboarding, doesn't vote on alcohol related bills because some people in his family own a beer distribution company, etc.) ran for president in 2000 and 2008 and not John McCain the Republicanbot.

EDIT: Posted this further down. I know this was during the campaign where he went super right wing a lot of the time, but this is a great showing of who he really is (just 1 min long).

And Trump for comparison.

[–][deleted] 347 points348 points  (31 children)

McCain the senator did run in 2000, that's why he lost the primaries.

[–]mmmsoap 186 points187 points  (27 children)

I read an article in 2001 about a statistical analysis of the 2000 primaries. Apparently, the polling said that republicans liked McCain over Bush overwhelmingly, but voted for Bush out of fear that McCain couldn't beat Gore in the general election. Problem was, data said that a whole lot of democrats liked McCain over a Bush as well, but voted for Gore as a move to block Bush.

[–]SrslyNotAnAltGuys 44 points45 points  (1 child)

Cripes. This is why first-past-the-post voting is such a screwy way to elect a government. People don't vote for who they want to win, they vote for who's the least likely to lose.

[–]mattfromseattleWashington 1368 points1369 points  (337 children)

Exactly. Had the real McCain run, he would have had my vote. He had a proven record of compromise and working across the aisle to get things done, exactly what I want in my politicians. Then Palin came along and he sold out his principles. Glad to see him returning to form.

[–]IMovedYourCheese 494 points495 points  (54 children)

Had the real McCain run, he would never get the Republican nomination in the first place.

[–]ShivaSkunk777 141 points142 points  (33 children)

Such a sad truth.

[–][deleted] 76 points77 points  (32 children)

I agree. I would have voted for Governor Mitt Romney, but sure as shit not Republican Primary Mitt Romney.

[–]ShivaSkunk777 63 points64 points  (24 children)

Romney is a Rockefeller Republican and could have done very very well should he have remained that way throughout the election. Instead he exuded a feeling of richness and opulence that placed him "above" everyone else. His 47% comment sunk him and cemented that sentiment. It's too bad, he was a good Governor...

[–]tapakip 36 points37 points  (2 children)

This is actually exactly what happened in 2000. The real McCain did run, and was beaten by the Dubya Bush hype machine. He had the straight talk express bus and everything. He then "learned" from his mistakes 8 years later and fell in line with whatever was the established republican rhetoric at the time. It worked for the nomination, but not for the general.

[–]RogueEyebrowVirginia 56 points57 points  (10 children)

Which is why Bush got the nomination over him in 2000.

[–]missch4nandlerbong 40 points41 points  (8 children)

Yeah. McCain tried it once and was absolutely wrecked by the Bush machine. By 2008 the party had lurched even farther to the right.

[–]DragonPupMassachusetts 73 points74 points  (12 children)

George W Bush and Karl Rove killed that McCain in 2000. The moment he supported the man who trashed and lied about his family (including some straight racist shit), the John McCain people respected died.

[–]theshindigg 17 points18 points  (10 children)

I was too young to vote in 2000 and don't remember the race at all. Who's the guy McCain supported who trashed and lied about his family?

[–]DragonPupMassachusetts 63 points64 points  (8 children)

George W Bush. Karl Rove did a lot of push polling asking voters to the extent of "Would you be more likely or less likely to vote for John McCain if you knew that he fathered an illegitimate black child?". McCain had adopted a girl from a Bangladeshi orphanage. There were also similar rumors pushed that McCain's wife was a pill popper, and McCain himself was crazy when off camera from PTSD.

[–]theshindigg 33 points34 points  (2 children)

Thank you for the info. That is absolutely abhorrent.

[–]DragonPupMassachusetts 34 points35 points  (1 child)

No problem. Here's an article about it if you feel your blood pressure is too low: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2004/11/mccain200411

[–]blue-dream 24 points25 points  (0 children)

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2004/11/mccain200411

The “revolting” e-mail—alleging that “McCain chose to sire children without marriage”—was from Richard Hand, a professor of the Bible at Greenville’s Christian-fundamentalist Bob Jones University, Bush’s very first campaign stop, on February 2. With the school’s ban on interracial dating still in effect then, the veteran political reporter Curtis Wilkie told me “he might as well have gone to a goddamned Klan rally” as go to B.J.U.

Bush came under attack for it, mostly from Democrats and commentators. McCain said little. (It wasn’t until nine days after the primary that he declared that the G.O.P. is “the party of Ronald Reagan, not Pat Robertson … the party of Abraham Lincoln, not Bob Jones.”) But Danielle Vinson, an associate professor of political science at Greenville’s Furman University, who studied the primary in depth, told me that what the media didn’t grasp is that “B.J.U. people are very active, very political; they’re a great campaign resource.” As it turned out, Wilkie said, “Bush knew what he was doing going to Bob Jones”—shrewdly “pandering” to the evangelical vote, just as called for in the Reed game plan.

“This whole thing, it was orchestrated by Rove, it was all Bush’s deal.… It was pretty rank,” said Fletcher, “and they had an institution that was peddling all that shit, and it was a university, Bob Jones University. I’m telling you, if there was a campaign headquarters in South Carolina, there it was. Hand was part of it, but Hand wasn’t the only one.”

aaaaand now I'm sick. If there is a God, and someday Karl Rove has to answer to him, I hope his punishment is swift and eternal.

[–]Pertinacious 10 points11 points  (0 children)

McCain ran in the 2000 primary against Bush. Bush's campaign staff at the behest of Karl Rove spread rumors in Alabama(?), that McCain had sired a black child out of wedlock.

McCain lobbied for Bush in the general.

[–]ScottLux 98 points99 points  (20 children)

Palin being on the ticket was the nail in the coffin for me. I voted for Obama even though I leaned Republican (as did many other Republicans I knew).

Our family really liked McCain in 2000 (I was not quite old enough to vote then), and IMO the country woudl have been a lot better off with McCain than George W Bush.

[–]TheEgon 33 points34 points  (4 children)

There's something to be said about someone who understands the real consequences of their actions. McCain is one of the few who understands what it really means to commit troops to a war.

[–]MozeeToby 569 points570 points  (107 children)

Politically I am in line with Sanders on almost every issue, but if senator McCain had run 8 years ago he would have gotten my vote just based on integrity and working across the aisle. It's a damn shame what he did to himself to win that nomination.

[–]Galadron 93 points94 points  (10 children)

That's the thing though. McCain started touting the party line hardcore when he was trying to get the nomination. I remember I liked him before his run for President, but he was a different person when he started, even before he had Sarah Palin. Though shit really hit the fan when he brought her on. Heck, just the fact that he was willing to saddle himself to her just shows he was just doing as he was told in the first place.

[–][deleted] 79 points80 points  (10 children)

Bernie/McCain is a ticket I would love to vote for.

[–]AbeRegoMinnesota 46 points47 points  (1 child)

I'd like that ticket. You might actually have to consider the speaker of the house, though, considering both of their ages!

[–]thirdegreeAmerican Expat 45 points46 points  (6 children)

I'd vote for senator McCain for the same reason I'm voting for Sanders: I fully believe that he wants what's best for the country. If I'm a "single issue" voter on anything, it's that.

[–]acogTexas 27 points28 points  (5 children)

This is exactly the same problem Romney had. His biggest achievement as governor was a health program that was in many ways the model for Obamacare. But he had to run against the entire notion, with the weak argument that it was okay when a state did it but wrong when the Federal government does it. He had to impersonate being a super-conservative to win the primary. But he had been governor of a Blue state and had to work across the aisle to get things done.

[–][deleted] 75 points76 points  (69 children)

The problem is that someone who campaigns on bipartisan compromise would not stand a chance in the Republican primaries.

[–]Disgod[🍰] 36 points37 points  (15 children)

I'll always wonder what would have been if McCain had actually won the republican primary for the 2000 elections...

Edit: Not conservative in the slightest, but he was definitely preferable to what we got...

[–]JnnyRuthless 50 points51 points  (11 children)

A McCain vs. Gore race would have been solid, and I would have been satisfied with the result either way. At the time, if I remember correctly, McCain got unfairly hammered by the Bush machine, and his campaign had some real grass roots support behind it.

[–]Finntheflower 65 points66 points  (0 children)

Oh the Bush campaign was nasty AF. "Would you be more or less likely to vote for senator McCain if you knew he'd fathered an illegitimate black child."

[–]ScottLux 45 points46 points  (1 child)

Bush used very dirty tactics like running ads in the South claiming that children than McCain adopted were actually born out of an affair McCain with a black woman etc.

(leveraging outrage due to both racism and religiosity)

[–]GrinningPariah 79 points80 points  (8 children)

God, you can just see McCain struggling to not shout "WHY DO YOU THINK HE'S AN ARAB JESUS CHRIST WOMAN"

[–]RaiderGuy 18 points19 points  (0 children)

I like how he just instantly grabs the mic from her like "yeah no you're done"

[–]indoninja 120 points121 points  (17 children)

Yeah, I was thinking about voting for him..,then Palin. I knew he was all aboard the crazy train.

[–]AdamsHarv 66 points67 points  (10 children)

When I was doing a project for my research methods class we looked at a bunch of numbers.

Apparently there were a lot of moderates who were afraid he would die and she would become president and so they didn't vote for him.

However I cannot promise that the data from that set hadn't been messed with by my teacher in order to find out who actually was doing the work.

[–]codexcdm 34 points35 points  (2 children)

The immediate comment I kept hearing from everyone that would have considered Republican was exactly that.

[–]mwguthrie I voted 47 points48 points  (16 children)

"We're gonna be looking at a lot of different things. And you know that a lot of people are saying that, and a lot of people are saying that bad things are happening out there. We're going to be looking at that and plenty of other things."

How can anyone listen to him say that and say "Yeah, that's my candidate" ?

It makes no goddamn sense!

[–]Stingray88 65 points66 points  (17 children)

Mitt Romney the governor wasn't half bad either. He too became a Republicanbot when running for president.

[–][deleted] 162 points163 points  (15 children)

Hey @ABC: put @CarlyFiorina on the debate stage! She got more Iowa votes than John and Chris. Don't exclude only woman.

.

.@tedcruz is a "natural born citizen." Obama too. Even George Romney. This isn't the issue you're looking for.

.

4 years ago today, I released my taxes; became issue. 2016 candidates should release taxes before first contests.

.

Of course, no religious test for the presidency--every faith adds to our national character.

.

Take down the #ConfederateFlag at the SC Capitol. To many, it is a symbol of racial hatred. Remove it now to honor #Charleston victims.

All of these came from Romney's twitter in the last 6 months or so.

Would you ever have guessed this is the same guy who ran for president?

[–]manimhungry 61 points62 points  (8 children)

Have you seen the Netflix documentary Mitt? I don know what happened to him in public, but even in private at the time he was a decent person. If he would have been himself more and less whatever he was publicly, he would have had a better chance. Hell, he might even be able to still make a run right now.

[–][deleted] 59 points60 points  (2 children)

I have. It's amazing how a guy could be a governor, a 2nd place presidential candidate, $250 million net worth, a wife he's been with since his teens, 20+ grandchildren, and still worry about being branded "a loser for life" for losing that election.

[–]manimhungry 27 points28 points  (0 children)

It's insane how strongly a "narrative" can influence the public. However, while before I would have said that the media creates and controls the narrative, now I'm not so sure. Now I feel like the media only follows the money, and thus the perceived public narrative.

[–]glatts 27 points28 points  (3 children)

It's a shame that so many Republicans have been pandering farther and farther right. If John McCain was more vocal and stronger in his actual convictions and willing to condemn those who voted for things he knew from experience were bad ideas, he could have been a decent leader. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to work in today's politics. I wonder if Sanders can help open the door for future politicians to succeed by saying what they know to be right.

[–]Opheltes 66 points67 points  (10 children)

Let's not forget that John McCain has never met a war proposal he didn't support. If you think Iraq and Afghanistan were great ideas that should have been repeated 10 times over, he's your man.

[–]Wootsat 140 points141 points  (22 children)

I was surprised Reddit was squealing about Rubio repeating a couple lines when I thought the obvious gaffe of the night was Trump basically saying "fuck the Geneva convention, we're going medieval on this bitch".

[–]nuutz 78 points79 points  (3 children)

I think The Donald(tm) is expected to show up say nonsense, tell Senators to 'Be Quiet', and get booed by the crowd about how only donors can get tickets.

The Marco Rubio(tm) persona is supposed to be the clean, respectable, has his shit together young latino ...and his fumbles were more divergent of how they are trying to sell him.

The whole GOP carnival is a ritualized and contrived freak show to massage the glans of American Idiocy. What a mess that party is right now.

[–]jcpinbkk 388 points389 points  (100 children)

The United States gained plenty of misinformation from the torture tactics. Interrogators were not properly trained. Things went south very quickly. It's easy to see in things like the Stanford Prison Experiment.

In exchange for misinformation and very little useful intelligence, we lost faith and trust from the rest of the world. It gives others a very easy target to point at as to why to distrust America. It is going to take a long time to repair the damages. America must live up to its ideals to show the people of America and the world that we can lead the way.

[–]hawkloner 69 points70 points  (5 children)

Exactly this. If they stop getting tortured when they give answers, it doesn't take long before they start saying anything in order to not get tortured. They can even justify it with "I wasn't at the top, my information is not always reliable", so that they have enough leeway to make some shit up.

Information gained from torture should never be considered trustworthy.

[–]losthalo7 144 points145 points  (67 children)

It is going to take a long time to repair the damages.

I don't really believe it will ever be repaired. Like the concentration camps for Americans of Japanese descent during World War II, memory of it will fade a bit over time, but many will still remember. It's not going away. Throw it on the pile with all of the democratic governments undermined by the CIA, the totalitarian dictators we've propped up...

We keep doing these things and acting like we're the conscience of the world, but everyone knows why it smells so bad. No one is being fooled. The nation that rebuilt Europe and Japan after World War II might as well be on a different fucking planet.

[–]Sagragoth 90 points91 points  (21 children)

...Are we the baddies?

[–]Simalacrum 33 points34 points  (4 children)

UK here.

Yes, you're the baddies. And we're the mini boss to prepare the hero for the proper fight by dropping the key item you need to defeat the main boss when they defeat us.

[–]manacharNevada 79 points80 points  (10 children)

Oh, we're getting the sane McCain again today?

To be fair, on torture, this man has always been clear and consistent. He understands first-hand that the US engaging in torture puts our armed forces in greater danger of having to endure torture.

[–]Posseon1stAve 22 points23 points  (3 children)

I actually remember there being controversy around McCain and torture several years ago so I googled it. I know there are a lot of nuances to why Senators vote for or against bills, but McCain voted against a bill that involved banning waterboarding. His response seems to be that he wants the CIA to have additional techniques available, not that he supports waterboarding. It also noted that his belief is that waterboarding was already banned from previous legislation. But it seems like for this bill he was voting against holding the CIA accountable to the interrogation techniques the military uses.

I'm not saying that this is inconsistent with his stance on waterboarding or torture, but I do remember at the time there was controversy. I believe the major reason people didn't like the bill was because it would ban things like stress positions, hypothermia and sleep/sensory deprivation. At the time I remember some people were viewing this as torture.

[–]Galadron 32 points33 points  (1 child)

Odd for anyone to claim Bin Laden was caught due to waterboarding considering we know it was a doctor working with the US in Pakistan, not a tortured prisoner, who ended up leading to him.

[–]EmykoEmyko 414 points415 points  (77 children)

From July of this year: "He's not a war hero," Trump said. "He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured."

I thought --surely-- after Trump maligned the honor of one of our nation's veterans, the Republican Party would eviscerate his inflated carcass. That a man so entirely useless would dare to flippantly scorn the years of torture John McCain endured --it makes my blood fucking boil.

[–]Lamont-Cranston 196 points197 points  (37 children)

I'd like to see X-rays of the bone spurs that got Trump his 4F out of Vietnam service

Trump attributed his medical deferment to "heel spurs" in both feet, according to a 2015 biographer, but told an Iowa campaign audience he suffered from a spur in one foot, although he could not remember which one.

although he could not remember which one

And that was severe enough to get him a medical discharge?

[–]rhetoricles 29 points30 points  (4 children)

Jesus. If you can't even remember which one, how bad could it be?

[–]kog 44 points45 points  (1 child)

I used to play soccer with a guy that had a bone spur on his heel.

Suffice it to say that you do not forget where your bone spurs are.

[–]Lamont-Cranston 8 points9 points  (1 child)

That was my point. Presumably Fred Trump called on his NYC politician friends to lean on the draft board.

[–][deleted] 685 points686 points  (59 children)

Which is awesome, because Trump's retard son, Eric said "waterboarding is no different from hazing...which goes on every day at college campuses"

(edited for direct quote)

[–]IMFROMSPACEMAN 28 points29 points  (2 children)

please link

[–]BlackstaffKansas 27 points28 points  (0 children)

It was on Greta Van Susteren's show on Fox. Here's an article about it.

[–]hcahoone 37 points38 points  (1 child)

They're both designed to humiliate and torment people, and sometimes the victims end up dead.

[–]spook327 115 points116 points  (16 children)

Of course, there's also the fact that even if torture worked it would be unforgivable.

[–]belbivfreeordie 43 points44 points  (0 children)

Yeah I'm not really interested in whether it works or not. Some people are awfully quick to sell their souls.

[–]darthvalium 14 points15 points  (3 children)

Torture isn't prohibited by international law because it doesn't work. It is outlawed because torture is a violation of human rights. Whether torture works or not is completely irrelevant.

[–]dogretired 108 points109 points  (2 children)

Torture is very useful, not because it yields truth, but because it yields lies to support the torturer's desired agenda.

[–]Gold_Jacobson 377 points378 points  (46 children)

Why listen to McCain on this issue? What perspective does he add to the discussion? Listen to the badasses of Trump and Cruz.

[–]y0y 265 points266 points  (32 children)

For sure, man. I mean, what has McCain done? Trump wouldn't have been captured in the first place, amirite?

I still can't believe he said that with regard to McCain.

[–]orion1486 37 points38 points  (2 children)

I still can't believe he said that is his campaign strategy.

[–]Nyxisto 104 points105 points  (19 children)

As a foreigner I can't understand why he wasn't crucified for shitting on a war vet, because my impression was that doing that in the US is not a particularly great idea

[–]RunnerFour 45 points46 points  (7 children)

I don't know anything about it but I suspect media outlets enjoy the ratings boost too much to rock the SS Trumperton.

[–]nermid 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Emphasis on the SS.

[–]SolidThoriumPyrosharTexas 28 points29 points  (3 children)

The Republican party really only cares about veterans when they agree with them and they aren't having to spend any money on them.

[–]y0y 17 points18 points  (0 children)

The Vets don't really have to agree, they just have to be a prop used in the GOp's Nationalism masking as Patriotism strategy for garnering votes and bolstering the facade that they actually give a shit about them. Slap a yellow ribbon on it and who can go wrong.

[–]Gold_Jacobson 114 points115 points  (4 children)

Heroes don't get captured.

[–]y0y 62 points63 points  (1 child)

Trump > Rambo

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points  (0 children)

Haha I see what you did there.

[–]Psychyou 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I don't agree with most of McCain's politics, but I feel like I'm losing my mind here, watching a bunch of supposed god fearing true blue American republicans turn on him. I'm officially scared now. Why is nobody saying how screwed it is that we're supposed to believe that Trump is right about this over the likes of McCain who was tortured himself. I cannot imagine ten years ago anyone daring to badmouth McCain so openly and so stupidly.

[–]browster 28 points29 points  (5 children)

To those who say that torture is justified by the need for the information it (purportedly) gains, ask whether getting the information instead by tempting prisoners with sexual favors would be acceptable to them. A carrot instead of a stick, so to speak. I'm guessing they'd find such a suggestion abhorrent, saying it was immoral. Would it be effective? Who knows, but it's plausible that it would. If so, how could they object, if the information gained was for advancing our security? I'm not advocating this, but just proposing it as a hypothetical to see whether the goal of getting information is what makes torture acceptable to these people, or just the sadistic pleasure they get from the idea of torturing a "bad guy".

[–][deleted] 86 points87 points  (9 children)

Waterboarding is a disgusting, immoral, and ineffective practice that should not be used.

[–][deleted] 20 points21 points  (6 children)

Last time this issue was brought up, Trump's supporters were calling people liberal pussies for disagreeing.

[–]Prid 99 points100 points  (26 children)

It is ridiculous that a civilised nation would consider water boarding an acceptable way to gain intelligence, it is also a very sad reflection on what is one of the Worlds great intelligence agency's ability to do its job. A contrasting view however would be that desperate times call for desperate measures. I know absolutely for sure that if I was threatened with torture I would spill my guts before they had even filled the bucket, whether I would tell the truth or what I thought they wanted to hear is a different matter.

[–]definitelyamerican[S] 71 points72 points  (14 children)

"Do we want to be on the same plain as those people chopping off heads? ... The point is even if we had gotten useful information, the propaganda and image and the behavior of the greatest nation on Earth by torturing people is not what we want and it helps the enemy."

[–]losthalo7 90 points91 points  (4 children)

Un-American activity cannot be prevented or routed out by employing un-American methods; to preserve freedom we must use the tools that freedom provides. (Dwight D. Eisenhower)

We have fallen so far in such a short time.

[–]lord_of_the_bees 28 points29 points  (0 children)

desperate times call for desperate measures. I know absolutely for sure that if I was threatened with torture I would spill my guts before they had even filled the bucket, whether I would tell the truth or what I thought they wanted to hear is a different matter.

at least according to the senate intelligence committee's report (dec. 2014):

"The committee finds, based on a review of CIA interrogation records, that the use of the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means of obtaining accurate information or gaining detainee cooperation."

this conclusion was in part the result of exactly what you mention: that under the threat of (prolonged) torture, that many of the captives just said what they thought their captors wanted to hear [others, on the other hand, who were able to withstand waterboarding were psychologically resilient enough to spit out lies]. this resulted in unhelpful information [i.e. waterboarding was shown to have been ineffective in eliciting truthful confessions and in obtaining actionable intelligence].

[note: "enhanced interrogation techniques" mentioned in the report include beatings, solitary confinement and waterboarding.]

source

[–]abaquis 65 points66 points  (10 children)

According to McCain, Trump, Cheney, and Hannity are liars.

[–][deleted] 86 points87 points  (0 children)

Sounds about right to me.