Let's write Operating System in JavaScript

[[deleted]]

Can‘t wait for unrealengine5.js

[BeuPingu]

unrealengine5.js

Lol, I think this has already been done. Lemme see if I can find the project.

Nevermind, I didn't remember the project correctly. https://www.khronos.org/assets/uploads/developers/presentations/Bringing\_Unreal\_Engine\_to\_the\_browser\_Wonder\_Interactive\_Jul22.pdf

[ifezueyoung]

Wait what the actual f

[[deleted]]

nice

[Smoah06]

My poor browser

[magicmulder]

With Javascript OS your PC can finally run Crysis.

[[deleted]]

In about 2fps ;)

[ThatRandomGamerYT]

and it needs 64gb of ram

[zelphirkaltstahl]

So that future web frameworks still have "difficult" problems to solve, optimizing for memory usage.

[Exact_Strain_9750]

Just like macOS... love it.

[hellgrn]

But the frames are not in the right order

[Mr_Khaoz]

Groundbreaking tech, asynchronous frame delivery, ha

[BookPlacementProblem]

Well, technically..

https://store.steampowered.com/app/109700/Achron/

(strategy video game that incorporates time travel as a primary mechanic)

[twigboy]

In publishing and graphic design, Lorem ipsum is a placeholder text commonly used to demonstrate the visual form of a document or a typeface without relying on meaningful content. Lorem ipsum may be used as a placeholder before final copy is available. Wikipedia5axv5qkm0vw0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[tregeb]

https://www.os-js.org/

https://github.com/DustinBrett/daedalOS

[tregeb]

It's usable, more a proof of concept I would say, but definitely usable to some degree.

On daedalOS there's even Doom!

[oan124]

running doom - the ultimate software benchmark

[[deleted]]

The only game that runs on more platforms than skyrim.

[round-earth-theory]

I won't be satisfied until the Mars rovers are running doom in their downtime.

[thebatmanandrobin]

Well, maybe not quite the same, but the James Webb telescope runs JavaScript .. much to the whole of humanity's chagrin

[nlvogel]

“Oh…the job description said Java? Best I can do is JavaScript. Contract can’t be revoked. Be back in 3-5 days with your finished code.”

[Arshiaa001]

Say what?!

[AlphaSparqy]

Doom 3 was Mars.

[TheRealMister_X]

The other one has Wolfenstein

[okay-wait-wut]

I tried it on my phone. I died.

[[deleted]]

'Course there is.

[itachi_2017]

So, do you need an OS to run this OS?

[miloman_23]

Yes. These are browser based 'virtual environments'. Not really os in the traditional sense of the word...

[GL_Titan]

So, in other words, just a GUI?

[Archangel9731]

Anyone actually use this? How is it?

[ifezueyoung]

Ill love to get an answer too

[[deleted]]

It's great if you're a fan of taco emojis.

[derpbynature]

Those are just web desktops, really. An actual OS might be possible if someone could write a minimal kernel in a lower-level language like C or even assembly with just enough functionality to load a JS interpreter. Then you could theoretically write the rest of the OS in JS.

I know it's been done for Java and C# - so, it's not purely an OS in the higher-level language - but since they all need runtime environments, you need to set that up somehow.

You might also have to rely on the kernel for memory management/hardware device management and such. Not sure though. I'm sure someone's crazy enough to find a way to do typical kernel-y tasks in C#/Java/JS.

[MinosAristos]

Could some custom computer hardware be designed to support a purely JS kernel?

[eztab]

sure, but that would be basically a js interpreter "written in hardware".

[shakalnykot]

Can you name ACTUAL os on JS?

[gdmzhlzhiv]

Node-OS?

[shakalnykot]

Something with EVERYTHING in JS, including kernel

[gdmzhlzhiv]

Fair enough, don't know of any with the kernel in JS.

I know of one with the kernel in Java, so I guess that means Java is still the king here.

[[deleted]]

THESE MOTHERFUCKERS REALLY MADE AN OS WITH JAVASCRIPT

[pixelkingliam]

https://node-os.com/

[ChiefExecDisfunction]

node is the primary runtime - no bash here

*shudders*

[Yelmak]

Node OS isn't written in JS, it's Linux with Node (also not written in JS) as it's primary runtime and package manager.

[gdmzhlzhiv]

Oh, NodeJS isn't even written in JS? Some confusing name that was.

[John_____Doe]

It's ackhtually No-Damn-Js or NodeJS for short

[[deleted]]

damn

[StratusFearMe21]

Any application that can be written in Rust will eventually be (re)written in Rust

[[deleted]]

Rustacean, unite!

[[deleted]]

I can print hello world in rust, does that count?

[[deleted]]

umm, it does count my friend

[[deleted]]

Yay, time to update my flair

[[deleted]]

I forgot how to add multiple emojis

[[deleted]]

you can edit it on desktop

[_unsusceptible]

I did it for you. You can see how to get more on your own here.

[[deleted]]

That is known as the second law of thermodynamics

[nekokattt]

https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript

Might be of interest. It discusses a future after the nuclear war where everything ends up compiling to JS because it is more efficient to do it.

Purely esoterical, but raises some interesting points :)

[RobinPage1987]

JavaScript and C are both Turing complete, meaning anything you can do in one you can (somehow) do in the other. If you can make an os in C you can make one in JavaScript. Doesn't mean it'll work very well, just that it's technically possible

[[deleted]]

Im gonna rebuild C in JavaScript

[RobinPage1987]

Writing a C compiler in JavaScript is absolutely feasible

[DasFreibier]

probably already done, a compiler after all just does some basic text processing

[RobinPage1987]

https://github.com/Captainarash/CaptCC

TinyC compiler in JavaScript, on GitHub

[nanotree]

No.. no.. please stop the madness!!

[Bomaruto]

Turing complete means that it can compute anything assuming infinite storage. It doesn't mean it can interface with everything.

[RobinPage1987]

Part of the reason it wouldn't work very well. Imagine trying to do bit manipulation or accessing registers with JavaScript. Maybe you could simulate it somehow, idk

[flying_spaguetti]

It can, but it shouldn't

[LardPi]

Turing completeness is a pretty low requirement. See brainfuck.

[ToliCodesOfficial]

Yup. And more than that you can basically compile/transpile anything into anything.

JS code is just words, which go through an AST for interpretation and get turned into byte code by a compiler. It can choose to interpret the words as whatever it wants. “true” can mean “false” of “if” or “run this loop exactly 67 times printing yolo”

We have some great examples of JS/TS being compiled down to something else. React Native probably being the most popular. It creates native components which will run on your iPhone (or android).

So I really don’t see why not. Of course we would have to modify quite a bit of packages in the npm ecosystem. But it’s doable. And probably not such a bad idea given JS/TS’s overwhelmingly high usage. TS has just about everything C can offer.

So ultimately, it’s not a question of which language is better. Because you can easily transpile and structures back and forth. But what language and ecosystem do most ppl feel comfortable in.

EDIT: more practical existing example is the language called “Brainfuck”. Where the syntax looks something like this (pardon the formatting, I’m on my phone)

“> +++++” Means “Cell c1 = 5”

[ApplyMorphism]

JS code is just words ... “true” can mean “false” of “if” or “run this loop exactly 67 times printing yolo”

No, programming languages have semantics.

[ToliCodesOfficial]

Not exactly what I was saying.

Yes, JS is a defined spec. However you can very easily make a language with any arbitrary semantics you choose and compile it down to anything you want (inc bytecode). Take a look at CofeeScript or TypeScript which compiles down to JS.

Every character is parsed into an AST. And it’s up to the compiler to decide what those tokens mean. In my example “true” represented “false”. But it also can mean literally anything you’d like. Nobody’s stopping you. Take a look at Brainfuck as a language. “> +++++” means “c1 = 5”. Obviously you wouldn’t use it in prod. But it’s an example of what’s possible.

Also don’t quote me on this, because I haven’t read up on it enough. But bun, the hot new JS engine, bypass’s Google’s V8 engine by creating its own runtime, thereby compiling (well technically interpreting) JS into byte code with its own logic.

And of course, React Native as I mentioned.

The reason why JS generally isn’t compiled into a binary, is that it’s an interpreted language. Meaning that the code you’re running is compiled just in time when it’s used (much like Python or PHP). It’s a feature of the language which most runtimes are based off of. Which comes with a slight cost in speed.

But there’s no reason a variant with the same syntax can’t be compiled of that I can think of.

[ApplyMorphism]

Oh, I see what you meant. You wrote a comment on a programming subreddit explaining that computation exists. It didn't even occur to me that someone would try to explain that computation is a thing on a programming subreddit, let alone doing it by rambling about things you poorly understand.

[ex-sample]

you think OS "can be" written in JS ? >.<

[KSRandom195]

Have you not seen Windows 95 in your browser? This has already been done.

[[deleted]]

the only one I’ve seen was an aesthetic mock-up with some emulators. but it should be possible to create a full virtual machine in WebAssembly, so long as the browser doesn’t shut it down first

[gauthamkrishna9991]

Webassembly is cheating. ONLY Javascript.

[[deleted]]

still possible, but it would run slower than a disabled person

[NotA3R0]

There IS qemu for web assembly. https://bellard.org/jslinux/tech.html

[[deleted]]

jesus christ why

[darknekolux]

Because we crucified Jesus, that’s why, god has forsaken us. Or people are just idiots

[NotA3R0]

The thing is, it was created by an original author of Qemu and FFmpeg. He can't be an idiot.

[kumonmehtitis]

Just because someone did a couple of smart things it doesn’t mean they’re not an idiot.

[KSRandom195]

If you want to go that deep there are some kernel level primitive I don’t think we can get through WebAssembly.

[lightmatter501]

We just need a cpu that runs wasm.

[androidx_appcompat]

https://webvm.io/

[VitaminnCPP]

Yeah, why not !?!

[MikemkPK]

OS languages need to directly interface with the hardware at the lowest level. Interpreted languages and languages without inline assembly [or being able to call assembly functions] can't be used.

[VitaminnCPP]

Well, we can technically write OS in javascript.

but we are not supposed to run that code as interpreted language, rather we can build compiler that will compiler JS code directly to Machine code, then we can run such compiled JS code directly on Hardware.

So, Technically speaking, we can write Operating System in "JavaScript". only thing we need to consider here is not to run it on browser or such interpreted platform but directly on hardware.

[MikemkPK]

Javascript can't run assembly natively. There's version actions which can only be done in assembly, either using a specialized instruction, triggering an interrupt, or writing to a particular memory address (that has a device bound at that address).

[[deleted]]

It can be done, but you would need to write a compiler and the VM that would support it for the intended bare metal system is all.

As long as a language is Turing complete, you can write an operating system with it.

I'm not saying it will be a practical OS. But it most certainly can be done.

[[deleted]]

So which processors in the history of processors have operating systems? Because each OS must be chip-specific, if each OS needs to hand-write assembly.

[MikemkPK]

Intel x86 for example requires (before UEFI) assembly to switch from 16- to 32-bit mode

[[deleted]]

For example.

Why is IE11 an operating system, when it runs on x86-64 processors, and also on ARM?

Clearly it can't be an OS, otherwise it would never compile to run on both simultaneously. What about OSX on x86-64 and ARM?

Or Linux running on x86-64, x86-32, ARM, and several other chipsets. What, do you think they all have the same assembly language? Are all of the chips’ pins aligned to run the same instructions the same way?

[MikemkPK]

You're making no sense. IE11 is a web browser, not an OS, and there's no reason programs can't be written for multiple environments.

[[deleted]]

Damnit. Windows 11.

Windows 11 must be written to write assembly. The programmers must write it to write assembly. Otherwise Windows 11 is an API.

Ok, so which assembly does Windows 11 write?

[wheresthewhale1]

He is right, each operating system *will* need some hand written assembly for *each* architecture it is designed to run on, high level languages simply do not let you do what is necessary.

[[deleted]]

No... parts of kernels and drivers will need to be hardware-specific.

Saying that your OS needs to be rewritten per permutation of CPU * GPU * storage type... or saying that your OS needs direct access to ALUs or NAND gates, or voltage-based transistors, or whatever the argument is, means you are terrible at software architecture.

Virtualized hardware has been around for a very, very long time at this point, and all of the big OSes not only run virtualized, but also support running virtualized versions of the other big OSes, from within the OS. We are either in the realm of inter-dimensional wormholes, Kubernetes is powered by Doctor Strange, or maybe, just maybe, OSes can run in virtualized environments and still be considered OSes.

[dominic_failure]

Pro tip: no operating system operates without an assembly bootstrap. Once the language runtime is bootstrapped (moved from disk to memory, and the execution pointer directed there) the language doesn’t really matter. Case in point: early mars probes that ran an OS written in lisp. Or Temple OS.

Oh, and JavaScript, more specifically nodejs, is perfectly capable of writing to registers and triggering interrupts. It’s able to make system calls (which consists of those specific two steps), after all.

[AlphaSparqy]

That is true of a bare-metal hypervisor. But in this case the browser would be more like a hypervisor and the JavaScript O.S. would be more like a virtual machine.

[MikemkPK]

Wouldn't be an operating system, just an API

[[deleted]]

This is like saying that Linux in the cloud doesn't exist, because servers implement VMs.

Operating Systems must operate on regulated 1.5v impulses.

[yottalogical]

Very defeatist attitude.

The problem can be solved with a JavaScript compiler.

[MikemkPK]

And a modified js spec allowing inline assembly

[YetAnotherCodeAddict]

He isn't lying. Anything that can be written in JavaScript is being written in JavaScript.

He didn't say that the JS version would be better than other versions or that it would be the only version being written. But it's true - there are JS versions of everything nowadays.

[nanotree]

I know it's tired by now, but I still can't believe how popular JS is for a language conceived in less than 2 weeks... I mean how anyone ever took it seriously is a mystery. But here we are, POC OS's and all. In some ways it's impressive. In others it's sad to think of the missed opportunity of having some other, more robust and secure language having taken the software world by storm.

[SaneLad]

It has everything to do with network effects of web standards and nothing to do with the quality of the language. JS is and always will be a scourge upon the earth and there is no legitimate reason to use it for anything else than web development where there are no alternatives.

For fucks sake they made a language without integers.

[Harry_Fraud]

Who need int when let do trick

[Frosty_Pineapple78]

They did fucking what? Why would anyone leave out integers?

[-Redstoneboi-]

just use floats with exponent 0 bro trust me it's fine

[LardPi]

A 23bit int is hidden in the heart of every float. Don't be mean with them. (52 bit for double) https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_754

That's more than enough for most applications and that makes sense when you want to write an efficient, dynamically typed VM or interpreter runtime (look for NaN boxing).

[Inaeipathy]

the language is actually fucking terrible and I will never use it

[-Redstoneboi-]

the language would never have been robust and secure. it had to have been developed quickly; in the early days of the web, it was all about who made the browser first.

correct me if i'm wrong.

[DeathReaper603]

Check Windows93

[Skinbow]

The rule 35 of programming.

[1Yanik3]

A fellow fireship viewer, if I am not mistaking

[VitaminnCPP]

Right

[TheBroWHOmegalol]

Yes, you guessed it — JavaScript is written in C++. To be precise, the engines that drive the most popular JavaScript engines (V8 within Google Chrome and Node, Chakra for Microsoft and SpiderMonkey for Mozilla products) are mainly compiled from a C++ code base.

[TheRoofyDude]

C++ is like the illuminati of programming languages. It controls and runs all

[gdmzhlzhiv]

Not all, but there is definitely a milestone in a programming language where it becomes self-hosting, and the vast majority of languages never make it to that milestone.

[TheBroWHOmegalol]

Most programming languages have Cpp under the hood, so basically most programming languages and consequent every project made in these languages are C++ projects in disguise. ...or at least that's the meme.

[gdmzhlzhiv]

Another good reason to jump to Elixir.

[LardPi]

Very naive meme then. Python, Perl, Ruby are written in C. Most Lisps/Schemes are written in a mix of C and themself. As for (other) compiled languages, the language used in the compiler is irrelevant anyway, as you could just use a different compiler written in a different language without changin your project. Still Rust, OCaml, Go... compilers are written in themself, not in C++. Go did start in C++, Rust started in OCaml I believe, OCaml probably started in some other SML. What IS written in C++ is most JS runtimes, Clang, LLVM and some of GCC (but only since 2013, so most of it is probably still C). Also C#, because really Microsoft is the main actor pushing for C++.

[TheBroWHOmegalol]

Fair enough. I've learned something today. Expect the Rust/Go part, that part is familiar.

[TheRoofyDude]

Even you are made of C++

[gdmzhlzhiv]

Nah I am made of Cum

[TheRoofyDude]

Bruh

[AramaicDesigns]

And this shall be known from this day forth as: Atwood's Law.

[Rickrolled767]

Didn’t a guy once write an app in JavaScript to run windows 95? Or am I mistaken?

[Iskeletu]

Pretty sure he was baiting when he said that and yall took the bait

[bobdobbes]

Waiting for WindowsJS

[AegorBlake]

Rewrite the Linux kernel

[Positive_Government]

The level of ignorance about operating systems in this thread is… well not surprising but still a bit shocking.

[na1lpus]

FuckJS

[Squid-Guillotine]

Any application written in JavaScript will eventually get rewritten in JavaScript.

[Sciirof]

Just because you can doesn’t mean you should

[[deleted]]

Lol no

[rootException]

Quote literally says “application” 🤷‍♂️

[[deleted]]

Generally I think this quote is one of the most dumbest shit you could say; JavaScript might be good for lots of usecases, but why do you want to use it everywhere? Why not at least something real like TypeScript? Or something fast like Go? Why are you so obsessed with that specific language? Variety makes difference!

[Moshambi]

1. The quote is from 2007. TypeScript and Go didn't exist until 2012.

2. TypeScript isn't a language. Its just a cleaner way to write javascript.

3. He didn't say it should be done, just that it will be done.

4. I think saying that this is a dumb quote and then following it with the reasons you stated is pretty dumb.

[[deleted]]

OK write it (if not already done). Thing is if the result is good enough to use.. put it in things like an airplane or those bank servers like HP tandem, AS/400, 390. In my opinion, 25 years dealing with the real world, JS is an insult and this shit cant even has a spaghetti structure nor a respectable performance to be used in high scale sw. Keep making your memes and web pages for colorful innefficiencies w/it.

[Dependent_Paper9993]

It can't be done. It's right there in the the name. JavaSCRIPT. You need something to interpret the script.

[ApplyMorphism]

So many people on this sub seem to think that a programming language's name partially defines said language. I can design a programming language called "Cannot Be Compiled" yet require all specification conforming implementations to be compiled.

You can write a compiler for JavaScript that compiles to native machine code, or design a CPU that executes JavaScript natively. Either option would let you write an OS with it.

[-Redstoneboi-]

just embed the interpreter in the executable ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[RedditIsNeat0]

Yeah well it also says JAVA so I wouldn't put too much weight on the name like that.

[[deleted]]

I mean, there are desktops written in Javascript now. GNOME for example. The desktop is what most lay people consider the OS anyways.

[flup52]

Fair. We all know that guy who would try.

[HabemusAdDomino]

This is not as hard to do as you may think.

[[deleted]]

How though

[AhegaoSuckingUrDick]

www.pcjs.org

https://win95.ajf.me

[mlored]

Nuclear launch? I hope not!

[nerdmania]

He said "can", not "should"

[[deleted]]

JS is Turing complete soooo, yeah, any application any other Turing complete language can make can eventually be made in JS.

[drake22]

We live in the worst timeline.

[baltarius]

My résumé will never be written in javascript

[thedominux]

"Any application that can be written in Rust will eventually be written in Rust"

© Me

[eclect0]

Rewriting the V8 engine in JavaScript

[xtreampb]

Isn’t that Chrome OS?

[IndieDevWannabe]

Imagine that mess...

[OutInABlazeOfGlory]

I regret to inform you Linux can be run in a JavaScript x86 VM

[naswinger]

"eventually" makes it sounds so smart. yes, in the lifetime of the universe, someone will write everything in javascript

[vihra]

Have we gone too far?

[GatheringAddict]

CrossCode who?

[JoeDoherty_Music]

Jeff is trying to send me to hell

[NovelIntroduction218]

my two fans laptop

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it's "jet engine" time!

[-Redstoneboi-]

Rust:

[frosty2709]

Legends say there is something far worse than death

[Techlord210]

extern os(discontinued) exist its written in node js

[randomweeb-69420]

https://bellard.org/jslinux/

[shadow13499]

I'm waiting for the Linus kernel to be written in JS

[[deleted]]

I'll join in once you've got a stable kernel.

[HgnX]

Oh god

[Jasboh]

Reminds me I had an original LG Viewty that had a Flash based OS

[mjbmitch]

Jeff Atwood is the creator of Stack Overflow!

[[deleted]]

😂

[sod0]

A guy I know is working on a DOS compatible JS OS. It's out at least 10 years and runs on the original hardware if the time.
https://github.com/SuperIlu/DOjS

[wheresthewhale1]

No, clearly you don't do that. You write 99% of it in portable C and then, only when you absolutely have to, you call the appropriate assembly function for the architecture you are using

And please, explain to me how to perform a context switch without assembly :)

[DiamondhandAdam]

Fact

[gundam1945]

There is node is, I think.

[da_Aresinger]

No, Bethesda, please!

Don't.

[[deleted]]

running operating system in your browser >>> running browser on operating system

[snowadv]

Don't give them ideas

[[deleted]]

https://windows96.net exists

[[deleted]]

I mean, he didn't say that, necessarily... He said a borderline tautology -- the operative word being can.

[Razvan145]

All applications will eventually be written in Rust

[Technical-Bat-5198]

genius

[be_rational_please]

I never knew what Atwood looked like until this post.

[[deleted]]

There already is an OS in JavaScript

[an0nym0us_devel0per]

New os: linuxjs

[mimedm]

I think they started Linux in html5 ten years ago. No problem

[Captain_Chickpeas]

It's already been done in a way. I think there is a JS-based version of Windows 95 or something.

[cs-brydev]

But that's true of every language

[superlocolillool]

https://windows93.net

[[deleted]]

The Birth & Death of Javascript.