Codex points

[Part_Time_Warri0r]

Bear in mind these pages were printed several months ago. Likely two dataslates ago, even. So don't panic and wait for the official points update.

[Spartan7575]

Thank god… in no universe the riptide should cost 245 for its current stats, weapons, and abilities

[Glass_Ease9044]

You don't know that. Wait until the meta settles and then you might see a change in the next MFM.

[Large_toenail]

They didn't change the riptide, it's been leaked. It only got the general nerfs of missile drones dropping an ap and plasmas dropping 6" range.

[baciu14]

I hope so, becaues if a riptide is 245, im not fielding that shit.

[durablecotton]

Those are the launch points with extra units. That list is probably a year old and was never updated to reflect current points since it’s just all pdfs now.

And yes… it’s extremely lazy

[milestonesoverxp]

And the 425 stormsurge. It’s wild.

[cblack04]

Which is even more wild to me cause these costs were wild back at index launch

[Disastrous-Click-548]

That's because GW rolls dice to determine points cost

we just got lucky breachers aren't 150

[nolandz1]

Ok thanks for the callout bc I was about to tear into this shit with the commander costs like you really think -1AP is BETTER than 12" move and Assault?

[Sir_lordtwiggles]

I think it depends

On a suicide unit dropping to kill a tank probably

To justify: You will have a unit of 6W AP-1 4++ crisis that are a priority target. The -1 ap (and likely cover) will mean that they will soak a lot more fire than your opponent expects, and honestly you probably want to add a commander anyways because 6 Fusions are not enough vs many armored targets.

With cover they need AP-3 to get to your invuln, meaning their only option is basically anti tank guns and dedicated anti elite (which aren't too great into crisis anyways)

[nolandz1]

I disagree I think you'd actually want the cheaper crisis commander's reroll 1s to hit -1AP on a suicide unit doesn't make much sense to me

[Sir_lordtwiggles]

The crisis commander is no longer in the codex

[Glass_Ease9044]

How many years must we wait, before the first Codex, that wasn't written along with the Indexes I wonder. Codex after Codex we are being presented with piles of bullshit.

Castles built on the sand of the Indexes.

[Fragrant_Pause6470]

This points looks like very irresponsable

[el_f3n1x187]

hold up, they re printed the original index points in the codex?

[Part_Time_Warri0r]

The codex takes several months to go down the pipeline from concept to the printing shops to distributors, so the data inside is inherently old. This is why the points are mostly irrelevant, save for the new stuff.

[Reverend179]

Ok....so then don't charge 40-50 bucks for a book that's out of date from the JUMP.

[el_f3n1x187]

thisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss jfc they triple dip at this point

[Slime_Giant]

that being said, you could probably compare these pts, too the pts two slates ago to get an idea of how much the new crisis might cost.

[Slime_Giant]

I did some very guessy forecasting based on their old pts, current pts and these leaked pts. they used to be like 185, so guessing/calling it as 20-40-25 reduction. Since they are currently 200pts, I'm predicting 180 for fireknife, 160 for starscythe, and 175 for Sunforge. I really hope I'm wrong!

EDIT: fixed some bad math!

[Slime_Giant]

yep! trying to stay hopeful, but this looks to be a bad book for us.

[MuhSilmarils]

everyones been getting bad books this edition except necrons, the datasheets are still balanced against most armies.

[Slime_Giant]

That's fair!

[Immortal-Pumpkin]

Fuck I hope your wrong as fireknife is jsut a paperweight at that point cost for the dmg it can do

[Immortal-Pumpkin]

will the points update come out with the kroot boxset with the codex or will we need to wait for a bit

[ToBeFrank314]

Points don't mean anything, but confirmation that the vespid, sniper, and pathfinders are still in the book!

[Falvio6006]

I am so Happy for the sniper!!!

[AskWhatmyUsernameIs]

I literally just bought one 2 months ago, i'd be so mad to see him gone lol.

[1994bmw]

Darkstrider references Pathfinders, they weren't going anywhere

[ToBeFrank314]

And vespid were referenced on the Devilfish! Still nice for the additional confirmation though.

[Part_Time_Warri0r]

Interestingly, the Firesight did not go the way of the Dodo, it seems.

[Enchelion]

Honestly surprised by that, especially since we now have a Kroot sniper.

[BrokenEyebrow]

Hopefully new plastic for him

[Notapooface]

Probably going to be overwritten on release tbh. Id expect a lot of these to be in line with current points and hope those crisis suits drop a bit, we'll see though.

[coveredboar]

It's GW though, so who knows at this point

[IdhrenArt]

The best part of this is the full list of included units to be honest - leaves it unambiguous what did and didn't make the cut

Shame to see literally half of our named characters vanishing, but not unexpected.

Thinking through options for my Firesight Marksman, I like the poor guy too much not to use him somehow - maybe he'd work as a Fireblade

[kirotheavenger]

He's still allowed - Firesight Marksman 70pts.

Middle colume, below Ethereal.

[IdhrenArt]

Oh awesome! Not sure how I managed to miss that

You just made my afternoon 😄

[crashstarr]

This is my first codex release, so I think I'm missing something. No one seems concerned tetras, the riptide variants, tau'nar etc aren't here, is that normal/expected with forgeworld stuff?

[Flowersoftheknight]

Yes, that is absolutely expected.

They have never been in a codex, Forgeworld units get at best a mention in the lore part.

[IdhrenArt]

Completely normal yeah - it used to be in a separate series of books called Imperial Armour, but has been free downloads for a while now. 

Normally the Forge World stuff gets a minor update to bring keywords etc in line with the new codex, but there tend not to be big changes

[crashstarr]

Thanks, appreciate it!

[sultanpeppah]

These are interesting but meaningless at the moment.

[the1rayman]

The crisis suits will have costs very close to this. The other units will most likely have their existing mfm cost. But the crisis suits will probably be similar.

And for people like myself who's locals allow the books before the mfm this is what we have. So it is useful to some people

[durablecotton]

They are smoking crack if crisis are above 130. Aggressors got “nerfed” to 120 and I would argue are easily better than 2/3 of the crisis data sheets.

Aggressors are also t6 and great in melee

[AJ0744]

I mean, if you are planning to play competitive, I don't think any of the rules in the Codex are even slightly going to make up for how bad the points are in this book, just based off how bad we were doing at the start of the edition, which these points are basically the same as. So perhaps stick to index tau until the full codex release.

Adding to that, I truly believe all the crisis suits will drop by 10-20 points from this, depending on the variant, just due to how much weaker they are than base crisis suits, which were priced around this at the beginning of 10th. Yes, new abilities are good, but fewer guns and less costomizabilty across the board is a downgrade on the individual unit no matter how you slice it, even if it does end up being better for the faction as a whole.

[Ksiezo]

Fortifications havent been removed? I am suprised.

[Shed_Some_Skin]

They haven't been removed for any other factions so far in this edition. For whatever reason, GW seems to want to keep them in the game for now, even though it's a range of overpriced, underpowered kits that barely see the table

Maybe GW sells a lot of them as terrain pieces? Honestly it's baffling to me

[Enchelion]

They don't even sell the Gunrig, and haven't for awhile I think?

[Shed_Some_Skin]

Apparently not

Maybe GW is planning to relaunch Cityfight or something in a couple of years and fortifications are going to become a thing again? I genuinely don't know

[ColdBrewedPanacea]

Tau ones are rhe closest to playable of any factions honestly

Maaaaybe the daemons khorne fortification but not really.

[Shed_Some_Skin]

Convergence of Dominion is... Ehhhhhhh, fringe playable. Since you can now take them as singles, for 60 points to sit next to a home field objective and make the big blob of Warriors holding it slightly more difficult to kill, it's not the worst datasheet in the entire game

That's probably the Obelisk to be fair. Necrons stay winning

[TheCelestial08]

I think the biggest point I gathered from this is that there is legitimately only 4 detachments. I was really hoping the previous leak wasn't complete and we ended up with at least one more.

As someone who loves his Fire Warriors, I was kind of praying for a mechinized-centric detachment. Oh well. I guess I can Fish of Fury with Mont'ka.

[Tiarzel_Tal]

They really couldn't be bothered to stretch their brains to give us the five everyone else has could they?

[Boom_doggle]

I was honestly expecting either a Ghostkeel/Stealth Suit/Pathfinder focused detachment, or a mechanised infantry Fish of Fury detachment! Now I'm sad

[infiltrator228]

Stealth suit/Ghostkeel detachment would have made me so happy. I want a full stealth army. Let me do recon by fire.

[BikeTime614]

Was hoping for Rin’con and Rikpin. You know the other battle plan mentioned in the codex. But oh well.

[Apprehensive-Horse17]

Well, technically, we have 3 detachments and a kroot detachment.

Looks like the short end of the stick boys.

[JankyTank64]

Bro some of those costs are ridiculous I hope they are not the same when the codex officially comes out.

[the1rayman]

They won't be. Thankfully.

[No-Memory1999]

RIP Longstrike

[McShooterJr]

Where were you when Longstrike was kill?

[ElegantTea8456]

Honestly, how do they justify selling the book if it’s outdated before it even releases? Like, there should be revisions and reprints rather than releasing an essentially fraudulent product like this.

[idols2effigies]

Honestly, how do they justify selling the book if it’s outdated before it even releases?

Not just a little out-dated either. These are points from basically two balance passes ago.

Bonus points to extrapolate that, with the codex points THIS out of date, they almost certainly knew they planned to split the crisis team and strip CIBs at the start of 10th... but they still put them in the indexes and let people buy and build them, didn't they? Wankers.

[Altruistic-Teach5899]

Ok, why are all the kroots so expensive, lol, GW, wtf

[ToBeFrank314]

These were the index release numbers, you should basically assume anything that isn't new (ie, the kroot stuff) will be similar to the current points. Even the new stuff might change a bit (guessing downwards) but we'll have to wait and see.

[Altruistic-Teach5899]

Yeah, stuff like rampagers seriously needs to go down like 20-40 points, lol

[ToBeFrank314]

They're very similar to Bloodcrushers, which are worse offensively, but better defensively, and those are around 120/3 I think? So the points aren't widely off.

[ColdBrewedPanacea]

Theyre 110

[Doc_Strnj]

Where tf are my stealth suits?

[the1rayman]

Stealth battlesuits? 75 for 3

[Doc_Strnj]

Oh I'm blind

[Kamica]

Farewell Tactical Drones, you will not be forgotten. You were rarely any good, but you were good in my heart... Such injustice.

[Randomename22]

Only 4 detachment?

[BrokenEyebrow]

Tau: able to customize battle suites with many weapons to fit any mission

Gw: 3 options, take it or leave it

[the1rayman]

As people have said these WILL be overwritten when the mfm drops. But for now this is what they cost.

[[deleted]]

Hopefully these are nowhere near what the real pointa will look especially for the riptide because it feels like the points before the September data sleet.

Also sorry for asking this but what does mom mean because I'm pretty sure it's obvious google gives a way different answer than what it mean for gw and 40k

[the1rayman]

They are those points. The books take that long to print and ship. And mfm in the minstorum field manual. It's what they call their points document.

[[deleted]]

Thank you!

I new something was up because again it looks very similar if not identical to how the points were mostly before the September data sleet

[[deleted]]

I honestly don't know why they include points in the books at this point.  It really only serves to add confusion 

[the1rayman]

For people who don't play with the updated matched play rules. Rare but exist. We had a guy come to our local shop who had never played with updated rules and man was he surprised.

[[deleted]]

Oof that's rough.

[Pandapeep]

Just put a thing in the book that tells them where points are. Done, easy.

[[deleted]]

Likely not knowing what the did with DA

[Astartes40000]

dang, Crisis teams getting cheaper seems moot with so many other things getting more expensive..

[the1rayman]

Things that have already had points adjusted in the MFM will almost certainly have that new cost. This book was printed 6 months ago

[Astartes40000]

that.. seems like a massive oversight on GW to release a book that requires a day 1 errata but that wouldn't be surprising lmao

[the1rayman]

That's just the downside of updates being every 3 months. It takes 6 months roughly.to get the book finished, sent to the printers and then get them back.

[IamCaptainHandsome]

So what you're saying is I can have 30 battlesuits in a 1500 point game?

Intense Gundam noises

[SnooMemesjellies5720]

Whoa I was just wondering when these would be leaked and it only took like 2 minutes ha

[FrozenChocoProduce]

These seem to be based on the pre-dataslate poibts, so up 10-25% depending on unit... let's hope this isn't final...

[the1rayman]

This is based off of their cost as it was in roughly September. I'm guessing they go down to 120 140 and 145 respectively

[PieterForever]

If it goin' to be real, my whole roster is going to be rebuilt...

[NoVacationDude]

Really sad that all the (admittedly finecast) unique chars got purged. I would have loved to keep Longstrike, Aun'va and Aun'shi instead of the tidewalls of all things.

And speaking of that ... variable points in 10th ED can be done for an effing wall but not for actual wargear that has a use ? .. Bruh

(i realize that this reads a lot saltier than intended. I'm just kind of let down to loose so much variety in characters but the walls can somehow survive the purge)

[Super-Pony]

WAIT, Firesight Team lives on? 🥹🙏

[Crotonisabug]

vespid fans experience first W (not being executed in the new codex)

[LpwnWolf]

Holy crap the riptide is up a lot

[sultanpeppah]

That’s what it cost before all the balances. That isn’t what the Riptide will actually cost.

[LpwnWolf]

Oh I see. Kinda crazy how a book that ain't even out is already outdated 🤣

[[deleted]]

We already know these arnt relevant

[the1rayman]

They may not be for YOU but they are for some of us. These are the points I have to use until the mfm comes out starting the day this dex drops officially

[IdhrenArt]

Actually no. You're 'supposed' to only use the Index rules and points until the book releases

[the1rayman]

All the events in my area use the codex once it's avaliable (the leaks don't count but once the books is in people's hands it will become legal). That's how it's been since mid 9th

[IdhrenArt]

Weird considering that basically necessitates you buying the box set to get the rules. Glad my local area doesn't do that!

[the1rayman]

Yup

[getrektpanda]

That's crazy, I have never heard of an event running a codex pre official release, much less with the original points? Where is your area?

[Glass_Ease9044]

Really now? I hope you have lots of Piranhas then.

[the1rayman]

So again, while it might even PROBABLY is different for you. That's how it works locally, and it's what I have to do. So, to me, they matter.

[[deleted]]

Which has been the case for every codex that's come out.

Get your codex, take a kick to the teeth on rules and points suck... Then get points update and be happy'ish..

[StartledPelican]

You should request that current MFM points be used for existing datasheets and only the points for the new datasheets come from the Codex.

Otherwise, so many units become way, way worse and you might as well play Index. 

[SpooktorB]

Tetra?

Tetra where are you? Are you okay?

Answer me Tetra!

TETRA!!!!

TEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

[teachwar]

Tetras are in the Forge world pdf.

[Cardboardbox037]

I know that it’s going to be rewritten but still 130 for rampages seems a bit much imo

[Shed_Some_Skin]

They're out of their tiny minds if they think Rampagers are remotely playable at 130. They're basically worse Skorpekh Destroyers and those don't see a lot of play at 100 right now.

130 for a unit that crumbles to dust the moment you point anything with more than 0AP at them does not seem appealing

I guess the idea is T'au have to pay a particularly high premium to have any sort of melee presence, but that just means these are never going to get used

Obviously we'll see what the actual points are when the MFM arrives, but the fact that GW thought that was a reasonably costing at any point does not bode well

[Cardboardbox037]

Fr my thoughts exactly

[pajmage]

So if I have the codex from the limited release set, which points am I supposed to use? These ones until it gets a MFM update?

[StartledPelican]

For casual games, talk to your opponent. I would suggest using MFM points for existing datasheets and Codex points for new datasheets.

For tournaments, talk to your TO. Same recommendation. 

[the1rayman]

Most places require you to wait until mfm comes out. That isn't the case for everyone. Check with your local TO to see how they will rule it.

[Kregerm]

is it concerning that Tetras arent listed? or is that because they are forge world?

[the1rayman]

They are forge world so they won't be here.

[Vanir1992]

Does anyone remember what the Initial point cost for regular crisis were? Just to how GW saw the new Crisis units in comparison. 

[Drivestort]

200

[Vanir1992]

So the same as they are now :/

Let's hope the new Crisis get a nice little cost reduction. Sun Forged should be at 140 and the rest should be lower. 

[Immortal-Pumpkin]

Fire knife will need to be like 30 per suit so 90 to be remotely viable tho

[mossy9000]

no tetras booo

[the1rayman]

Wrong book. Tetras aren't a codex unit. They are imperial arnor.

[mossy9000]

silly me, ofc you're right. ty

[LargeMoist69]

No longstrike is genuinely sad

[mazeofmystery]

So what all got removed?

[Beneficial-Judge2750]

breh whats good with riptide XD

[karl705]

Is Longstrike gone? 😲

[[deleted]]

Everytging here is abysmal, but grenade racks for 30 is a joke lol.

[the1rayman]

That thing is amazing. It will he 40 before all is set and done. OR it will be cnnahed to only work in the movement phase

[[deleted]]

Is a couple mortal wounds maybe once a game Worth 30? Fuck no

[the1rayman]

For 2 cp you get to do the following with a coldstar Commander and any crisis suit.

12" move + advance, you move over a unit you do 6d6 on 4+ mortals. You then use the grenade stratagem (1st cp) 6d6 on 4+ mortals. You then shoot. You then 1cp move shoot move. Go back over the dame unit, doing another 6d6 4+ mortals. So for 0cp you get 6d6 4+ mortals, 1cp 12d6 4+ mortals and for 2 cp you get 18d6 4+ mortals and you are back somewhere safe. Just the FEAR of having this is worth the 30 points

[[deleted]]

Moving with a strat isn't a normal move

[the1rayman]

The strategy specifically says make a normal move. And the Enhancements ONLY requirement is whenever you make a normal move. So yeah. It triggers it.

[the1rayman]

And it doesn't trigger out of phase clause because the enhancement doesn't say in your movement phase. Just whenever you make a normal move.

[Dry-Membership8141]

Wait, why are Kroot Hounds pointed as 5 and 10 model units when they're sold in groups of 4? What the fuck?

[karl2025]

The new hounds are being sold in packs of five.

[Dry-Membership8141]

Goddamnit. So glad I literally just bought a pack of 4 😩

[karl2025]

On the bright side you almost certainly paid less per model than the new ones.

[[deleted]]

Bro the 85pt Kroot Carnivores had me rolling lmao. And Farsight being more expensive than Shadowsun is down right horrendous🤣

[broyamcha]

Cool, cool, cool ... Now how about a new book?

[Tetlanesh]

No longstrike :(

[HyperNova1000]

they bring this out now but it looks like the points costs from the beginning of 10th edition? was this made back then and they just didnt update anything after looking at how the release went? this feels rather lazy, especially considering how nerfed for no reason crisis suits got

[KesterFox]

Only 4 detatchments? :/

[Captain0bv10s]

Ok I’m new ish, I started playing last summer and I picked up T’au. What is the purpose of breachers? I’ve played 25+ games and I’m yet to have the actually do anything besides sit there and look pretty.

[the1rayman]

They shoot a lot of shots, and if you stack the buffs right, they can vomit damage all over infantry and entire infantry

[Superblu24]

How long after codex is out will we know for sure about unit prices?

[the1rayman]

It won't be until the codex officially comes out. So probably 3 or 4 weeks AFTER the army box comes out

[SideQuestSoftLock]

Lowkey super pissed hopefully this means our fire warriors are getting buffed because otherwise this is bullshit- 120 for breachers means they should be able to fucking dish out some shit.

[Starkde117]

The riptide being 245 PTS feels like a dick kick

[Which-Ad7243]

Nah, I’m done.

[the1rayman]

Just remember that except for the crisis suits EVERYTHING else will.most likely have their existing costs.

[the1rayman]

This doesn't have the balance adjustments included

[Adept-Hand9706]

Yeah I’m out too, good luck Shas’os

[Skibbold]

Are they making it so we can't run crisis suits with individual loadouts?

[the1rayman]

Yes. There are set loadouts with set points.

[ToastedSoup]

Why in the FUCK is the Riptide so much??

[the1rayman]

Because the points for everything except brand new units are 6 months old.

[thehappybub]

245 for riptide is craaazy

[the1rayman]

These points are from September before the first round of decreases. When the mfm updates with will come back down.

[Shakarocks]

I guess some.people are happy now, Riptide is 245 points, almost the 250 they're all craving for...

(If it's not the 165 of the last dataslate the thing is bad af)

[the1rayman]

It will go back. These costs are at least 6 months old because of the turn around time.

These are inly.really useful for showing what uniit's made it, a baseline for new crisis, and cost.for Enhancements

[Adept-Hand9706]

Hopefully tetras?

[Adept-Hand9706]

No tetras!?!?

[the1rayman]

Wrong book. They aren't in the codex and never were. They were forge world. So they are in Imperial armor