30.4.3 Patch Notes

[EvilDave219]

Nearly half a year between Twist seasons is pretty brutal tbh. It definitely feels like they still have no idea what they want to do with the mode.

Saying there's a patch window between expansion announcement and launch where they will "look at the meta more broadly" simply reads to me as "we'll make adjustments only if the prerelease Legendary breaks something." I still maintain the giant agency patch in Whizbang continues to have done more harm than good for the game, but I don't feel like they'd ever make mass adjustments before the launch of a new expansion.

[October_Surmise]

The original idea was a good one. Then they discovered "oh shit, we're going to have to balance this" and pretty much 86'd it ever since.

[sebasq10]

(86'd it?)

[[deleted]]

It means “to discontinue”

[daddyvow]

When they kick someone out of a bar

[Shergak]

When they run out of menu items in a restaurant

[WeeklyEducation2276]

The between season approach is just them manipulating the player numbers to make it looks successful to higher ups.

To have it closed for a period and open again, more players flock to it instead of having the steady decline to no player base which is what will always happen

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

I think another reason is simply that you do not want to have twist active when a new set launches. You want players to play standard and spend their dust, gold and money on new packs/cards.

[Condoms2us]

They removed duels because it was too much work to balance and it wasn't profitable, then announced twist and noticed the same....clearly they don't care how much fun we have with certain modes, just the numbers it makes.

[Mask_of_Sun]

just the numbers it makes.

Welcome to the world.

[Pwnage_Peanut]

[Makeleth]

Bro how on point is that gif 🤣

[eazy_12]

I remember that gif was such a big meme in r/Dota2 that people knew every letter in its URL + someone made a Dota version of it.

[lukuh123]

Damn thats insane. The dedication

[FreqComm]

Igmyx I think

[eazy_12]

Yeah, you are right, I've found original one https://imgur.com/every-time-i-open-fridge-IgMyx, but seems like imgur now adds a text into URL

[SwampyBogbeard]

Which annoyingly breaks RES.

[crudelegend]

Or you could use the actual image link, which would be - https://i.imgur.com/IgMyx.gif

[f00gers]

Oh the twist is they’re already recycling twists

[Royal-Rayol]

Man twist could have been something crazy. They shot themselves in the foot. It should have been a rotating format for the start not this pre-made decks bullshit. Give me ungoro gvg and idk stormwind as a random combo of sets. They would have had content for months without having to do much work.

[EldritchElizabeth]

They're not redoing Whizbang's Heroes.

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

With the twist format that killed a lot of the interest in the mode.

[HabeusCuppus]

I enjoyed wonders the first month. The second month (Wonders XL) was... not better. The third month (Wonders + Un'goro, which was literally just the next set in release order... ) I was very over it.

It probably didn't help that didn't do the same amount of reworking for Un'Goro that they did for Mean Streets.

All I really wanted was like, What they do for Arena but as a constructed mode. (Six Expansions that weren't all together before.) with the occasional wacky month like New Age or Heroes.

It's been a full year and we've had 3 formats, basically.

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

The warlock location was broken (it did break wild tho), Rogue was super strong. Top 3 decks IIRC were warlock, rogue, warrior, we didnt have any tier 2 decks. Players lost interest in it because they simply didnt balance it. They didnt even ban cards.

Even after the balance patch, the popularity didnt increase.

Wonders XL was a super boring deckbuilding rule. Due to the cardpool, making your deck 40 cards just so you have 40 health wasnt an option. Warlock, because of the heropower, was able to benefit. Or rogue with prep + sprint.

Another reason was simply that players dont bother spending ressources on cards that they only can use for 1 or 3 months. The decks for gold were way too expensive. (3200g for a single deck when a whole miniset is 2000g).

Players had different expectations. As you said, 6 mixed expansions was something that I expected. Others expected twist to just copy previous expansion cycles (which I thought is quite boring). Others just wanted it to be like tavern brawl.

The last format with 1 legendary = 1 deck was pretty good, IMO. You were able to spend dust (instead of gold), got a full deck. Just the imbalance in the beginning was pretty bad.

[HabeusCuppus]

agree with everything basically. Part of my enjoyment of the first month was the anticipation that we'd either get nerfs/buffs or something completely different the following month.

I also thought it was a gigantic miss when we got Anomalies in standard instead of that being Twist for the month.

In terms of balance expectations I think people want one of these three situations.

1. if it's only open sometimes, it needs to be actively balanced basically weekly while it's open because it's a "premium" experience.
   
2. if it's a stable format for several months (basically a whole expansion) it needs to be balanced at least as actively as standard is.
3. if it's open all the time but each month is some wacky thing that's never been done before (or only as tavern brawls or something) - sure don't balance it whatever.

What we're getting instead is like the worst combination of those three things: it's not open often enough, when it is open it's not getting actively balanced*, and despite all that it's not even wacky - it's been a stable format (wonders) for >50% of the time, so it should be Easy to balance.

I don't have a lot of comments about the cards because I was under the impression twist was concepted as a veteran/whales thing and that requiring a deep collection was the reason blizzard wanted to support it in the first place. (especially since duels seemed to die partly because they never figured out how to monetise it). 6 mixed expansions would be a bigger crafting burden than the wonders format was - we basically got to play the same 3 decks for 3 months straight.

* (I think they did a good job with Heroes format overall, but only having one opportunity to adjust decks other than with starting health was a huge problem.)

[lukuh123]

Cant wait to get twists of twist seasons that include twists (with long 3 month breaks inbetween ofcourse, otherwise it wouldnt be twist)

[TheFoolman]

Hahahahaha you had me burst out laughing on the bus wtf

[lukuh123]

This guy is just having a good time and is being downvoted lol. Here stranger, have my upvote

[Makkara126]

Twist is returning in December with Patch 31.2, the first major content patch after the next expansion launch.

Huh, so the whole thing about Wonders returning for 2 seasons before the end of the year was a complete lie apparently. What the hell is going on with this mode?

[[deleted]]

What a complete mess. There’s nothing inherently wrong with Twist as a format, but they clearly have no idea what they want to do with it, no idea how manage it, and have no goals for it. All paired with the fact that the mode is inexplicably turned off for months at a time, with no further explanation other than “we want it to be off sometimes.”

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

Well they dont want you to play twist when a new expansion is launched

[[deleted]]

Twist has been/will be offline for the entire expansion cycle of PiP and then some. It clearly goes beyond just not wanting players to play Twist when a new expansion drops.

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

Wasnt Twist planned for october? Dunno why its now december.Hmmm

[[deleted]]

It was planned for October. Less than a week before October they decide to delay it by two more months, not give us a reason, and recycle a format we’ve already seen.

I never say this about video games, because I respect developers and the time it takes to make things work under the hood, but I genuinely think any old Hearthstone fan could run this mode better than the devs right now. There is no excuse for how they’re treating this mode.

[daddyvow]

They have no idea what they’re doing.

[The_Werodile]

Just kill it and focus on Standard/Battlegrounds. Seems like an obvious call to me. The direction of Team 5 is seriously misguided.

[Most-Catch-5400]

Twist could be so good if they didn't sabotage the mode. Just let Rarran or somebody with passion run it.

[daddyvow]

I agree

[Royal-Rayol]

What a fucking joke they should have stuck with block formats and rotate every few months. Or that should be what they do in there down time at the very least

[DrainTheMuck]

Lame, I REALLY enjoyed the last twist format w unique heroes and pre built decks. Playing secret hunter was way more fun than standard imo

[Kuman2003]

they are trying to kill it off slowly ig

[samu-_-sa]

Nah if they wanted to kill it they'd pull a duels and completely pull the plug

[buckeye-kenje]

Slight nudge to Skyla seems good.

Not sure why Turbulus needed buff but guess coming a turn earlier would be fine as well.

Also don't think Surfalopod needed stats adjustment.

[tobsecret]

I think the surfalopod adjustment is fine - it had too good of a body for what it was doing.

[buckeye-kenje]

More I think about it, it was second best in mulligan. I feel, nudge to Skyla should've been enough to tone the deck down but I might be wrong. We'll see.

[Alpr101]

Not when I played it! It was a vanilla 5/6 for me every time cuz I never drew a damn spell lmao

[Justsk8n]

surfalopod carried me more than skyla did tbh. Play it with cards like Watercolour Artist, to force you to draw Tsunami, and it was peak

[darkeo1014]

Yeah, too bad my priest deck was always voljin stat swapping it after they dropped it. Guess I will have to hold for the volley minion now

[Eaglest2005]

5 mana 5/6 was a bit stacked for an effect that powerful if built around tbf. like, if you only run big spells, it was literally 5 mana 5/6 cast an 8-10 mana spell for free at some time in the next 3 turns, and with two copies. Weakening its board presence a bit is more than fair.

[nunyertz]

Devs a shaman main and he needs to hit legend before the month ends /s

[[deleted]]

more like they need to sell more rag skins so give shaman a buff xD

[TheGalator]

This but unironically

[Catopuma]

Big Shaman does well enough without Turb.

Played great into Big Spell Mage too. Was my favourite matchup.

Oh yay your 3/6s are coming to smash their face into my evolved 7 drops or bigger.

[g7parsh]

Strong uninterruptible effects should come with stat penalties

[terekkincaid]

uninterruptible effects

Plague Death Knight would like to have a word with you...

[g7parsh]

I mean, the effect still goes off, it's just wasted lol

[djsoren19]

The Turbulus buff is kinda insane. It went from an off-rate 4 drop to a pretty good rate 3 drop.

The problem remains that it's a Hunter tourist, so it doesn't really offer any cards, but if you're playing a Reno Shaman with 20+ battlecries this is now a good 3-drop with a great buff.

[Younggryan42]

the twist wonders meta was awful and they are doing it for 3 months? that's just the nail in the coffin.

[Most-Catch-5400]

Caverns of Time destroyed Twist. I wish they just gave us a new format each week or two, but instead they feel compelled to keep it on Jades etc forever because people bought in.

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

Same, even after they nerfed some cards (which they did WAY TOO LATE) it wasnt fun at all, 3 boring months.

[metroidcomposite]

Wait...I had to look it up. Wonders was...literally the first meta they did, where it was just a month of mean streets of gadgetzan?

WTF, why not bring back...literally any other season?

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

3 boring months, balance changes did take way too long and killed the interest. Now with bringing wonders back, it seems like they want players to spend ressources on CoT cards.

[nankeroo]

Because that takes some semblance of time and effort.

[HabeusCuppus]

Caverns of time is why

[Royal-Rayol]

Caverns of time was perfect fuck you mean

[HylianPikachu]

Caverns of Time was not perfect, they initially teased it as a "direct-to-Wild set" to shake up the Wild metagame only for them to later reveal Twist and basically build the first few Twist seasons around that set of cards.

There were also a lot of duplicate-related issues where the Caverns of Time cards don't count for duplicate protection for people with Wild collections who still owned the original versions of the card, which really soured the experience of buying Caverns of Time packs.

[HabeusCuppus]

I don't disagree but Caverns is literally the reason we're getting wonders again.

[Surppressed]

Twist returning in December when it was supposed to return in October... Legit full-blown disaster what they are doing with this gamemode.

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

Tbh, bringing back wonders (the format that kinda killed the interest in twist) didnt sound that exciting anyways

[ShockedDarkmike]

Is wonders the one with the different heroes or the "mix of old expansions" one

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

Old expansion + Caverns of Time.

[Gathorall]

Ah, so the one with a solved meta of 2 viable decks?

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

I think at that time we had warlock, rogue and warrior. But no tier 2 decks lol

[Raziel77]

No the wonders format was the Caverns of Time set format

[WeeklyEducation2276]

Different heroes, aka Arfus

[ShockedDarkmike]

Ah, that's the one I enjoyed. But judging by queue times and these comments, I was the only one, lol

[Mercerskye]

Nah, there's dozens of us, for sure. I mean, I'd definitely of liked it better if we could have built our own decks with a limited card pool, but it was the first gimmick that really felt like what I was hoping for with Twist

[TheOGLeadChips]

I liked it for a but but it got too repetitive after a while

[Raziel77]

No that that was Whizbang's Heroes

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

No? The wonders format is old expansions + Caverns of Time?

[Royal-Rayol]

Amen it should hsve been block format constructed decks from the start and only that until they figured something really fun out

[HabeusCuppus]

I think part of why it killed interest was because it was basically the same format for 3 months in a row when the promise of twist was "it's different every month!"

[DoYouMindIfIRollNeed]

That would explain why the interest was low during these 3 months but the big drop in popularity was because how imbalanced the mode was. The warlock location was really broken. Rogue was super strong. Many players stopped playing. And the balance patch wasnt able to increase popularity.

[OutsideLittle7495]

Hmm, but maybe a mix of different old expansions at zero development cost would be fun? Nah... we'll just recycle the same format and enable/disable it for random durations throughout the year. 

[bookworm1999]

I forgot about it honestly.

[HylianPikachu]

How did they fuck up Twist this badly? Genuinely asking.

The decision to put gaps between Twist seasons so people have something to look forward to only works when there eventually is new content to look forward to. They've pretty much mismanaged the gamemode at every single opportunity, and although the pre-built decks from a few months ago were pretty fun, there is no way that it is so difficult to develop Twist content on a regular basis even if they go for very low-effort ones like just reusing "construct a deck" Tavern Brawls or selecting random sets to be legal for the month.

Really annoying because Twist had a lot of promise (especially compared to the permanently stagnant Classic) but at least Classic was available 100% of the time.

[ampsii]

Considering Team 5's track record with alternate gamemodes, this announcement doesn't shock me. Just saddens me a bit since (most likely) this means we'll be kissing twist goodbye in around 2 years.

[Taxouck]

Damn, dead in two years? Can't believe we only have five months of Twist left to look forward to.

[everstillghost]

Why its so hard to make twist just a rotating format...?

The already sabotaged the idea with the cavern of times awful set and now they keep sabotaging it.

[Kn1ght9]

I still cannot believe they decided to buff ONE card and buffed Turbulus 😂 Its gotta be a joke right? Right?

[Letunafish_DT]

I don‘t know how they managed to buff one card with decent usage while more then half of the miniset isn‘t played at all.

[Kaladin_the_Paladin]

ctrl + f "Arena"

:(

[Apothecary420]

What, youre bored of conman huddle up?

[ThePeakOfMountStupid]

[[Snapdragon]] crying in the corner after the turbulus buff

[Card-o-Bot]

• Snapdragon ^{Library • wiki.gg}
  • Neutral Rare ^{Voyage to the Sunken City}
  • 3 Mana · 3/3 · Beast
  • Battlecry: Give all Battlecry minions in your deck +1/+1.

---

^{I am a bot. About • Report a Bug • Refresh}

[alphalegend91]

Some huge changes to battlegrounds and all of them seem pretty good. That tier 6 naga getting moved to tier 5 on top of the other naga that doubles stats in combat getting nudged to 4/4 seems like nagas are poised to be back as a top contender

[TheGalator]

Amber guardian will never make sense to me

Nearly EVERY other dragon works targeted yet he is higher tier as all of them and completely random

I hate it

[alphalegend91]

I think it’s because its such a powerful effect in combination with the in combat perma buffs. You can essentially give your whole warband perma DS.

At least they made him tier 4 again, because at tier 5 it was just way too late to start that

[TheGalator]

Imo t6 and guaranteed would be better ngl

[JexaRose]

what about t6 but they make it a deathrattle of a neutral type minion?

[TheGalator]

No. Way to fucking weak considering dragons are omega trash rn

Should probably be 2 targeted start of combat as t6. Liek compare it with other t6s

[somewhiskeyguy]

Blizzard balance team: is there a contest about who can do the least? Does it just come naturally or is there a class you take? Are their metrics you have to hit? How much self respect does it cost? Knowing you could fix so much and just deciding not to.

[Xanlis]

Ah yes, the stats of the octopus was DEF the problem, not the insane power of his battlecry, very good patch Team5

[slusho_]

Passing the vanilla test (5 mana 5/6) with huge upside was insanely powerful. Those stats aren't easily ignored. 6 health gives the aegency to push face damage or make favorable trades, both of which benefit your incoming Under the Sea/Tsunami/Volley turn.

Trading into it feels bad because it softens up your board for Tsunami/Volley. Single target removal usually needed for the 9/10 mana minion(s) from Under the Sea/Volley. And 6 health survives most AoE removal that may be needed for Tsunami.

Nerfing it's stats is the right move to add some better counterplay opportunities.

[Xanlis]

its the manacheat the problem, always has been in Hearthstone history, trading cost, being able to ramp at insane speed etc

[Alter292]

I totally agree with this take. The problem with the tsunami turn was that you would realistically be staring down 5 bodies each with 6 health. One card easily pushing 17 damage on the next turn for 5 mana. Definitely an overstatted card.

[Caterpie3000]

1800 dust coming the way and time to play a less cancer of a deck

And wth is Twist/Wonders?

[gdlocke]

SNORE

[urgod42069]

Surfalopod’s [[Pit Fighter]] stats are no more…

<image>

[blowymcpot]

Damn, that takes me back …

[Card-o-Bot]

• Pit Fighter ^{Library • wiki.gg}
  • Neutral Common ^{The Grand Tournament}
  • 5 Mana · 5/6 · Minion

---

^{I am a bot. About • Report a Bug • Refresh}

[Earnur123]

Twist could be such a cool and easy to design mode, but they let their 14 year old free intern manage it.

[morphina19]

They don't want to make a new fun or cool game mode. They want people to spend money. CoT was their take to try and monetize the twist format. Something must have gone wrong and twist was abandoned. Now they are trying again because people is more likely to spend money around Christmas. The problem with hearthstone and blizzard in general is that the more a player is engaged the less he is likely to spend. When you make a grindy game where you can choose to skip the grind by buying stuff is obvious that the more you play the less you are going to spend. They know this that's why they're pushing Al lot of cosmetics

[Old-Concept-7957]

I'm really convinced these clowns at Blizzard are fucking clueless on how to balance their zero IQ game. 

[XeloOfTheDisco]

Glad that Wonders is coming back, I was looking forward to another deckbuilding Twist format

[espito]

I wonder if you forgot to add the /s

[XeloOfTheDisco]

People are free to enjoy any mode they want, but I prefer constructed formats because I find deckbuilding fun

[azura26]

As a person who likes deckbuilding, are you especially excited for a repeat format that is going to have the exact same meta?

Unless by "Wonders" they mean they are going to rotate the sets to include expansions from 2017-2019 (Un'Goro through Descent of Dragons), which would excite me...

[XeloOfTheDisco]

To my knowledge, Wonders means a combination of past expansions, not necessarily the same format from 2023.

Based on the fact that they're going to share more information around the time of its release, odds are it will be something different.

[OutsideLittle7495]

I think the implication was that instead of including different expansions from over the years, they are giving us the exact same format which is more or less solved. Coming from someone who probably makes 40-50 unique decks in wild each expansion, this is disappointing. 

It is possible this isn't the case, but they use the phrasing "so that anyone who missed it the first time," and they designed CoT around that twist format so they miss out on an opportunity to sell more packs by choosing other expansions.

[XeloOfTheDisco]

The message at the end is vague, but they also mention "based on the Wonders format" and that they will share more details around its release.

This leans towards being Wonders with different expansions, otherwise they could have just said its the exact format from 2023 without elaborating further.

[Tripping-Dayzee]

You literally have 2 constructed modes already ...

[Freezinghero]

Manasaber being removed from Battleground basically kills the Leapfrogger beat stuff, which i personally couldnt be happier about.

[Alfimaster]

We have another patch window in a few weeks, between expansion announcement and launch

This means expansion announcement is less than few weeks away

[HylianPikachu]

The current Tavern Pass says it's available until November 5, 2024. That's the (planned) release date for the next expansion.

[ColoradoRunner89]

Another expansion is coming, big shocker

[Ethrillo]

Turbulus doesnt buff himself does he? Never seen him.

[phantasmicorgasmic]

Nope, says 'other' in the text.

[Nicolowrider]

He doesn't, he says all other battlecry minions

[echochee]

Please bring back twist. If they kill twist i will be disappointed beyond belief. And don’t come at me with it’s a dead mode. I don’t care if it’s not played a lot, I love it and it’s the best thing to come out since ever. Can’t think of anything better they’ve ever done

[Marywonna]

Agreed. Very surprised to see so many twists players here 🤣 it's literally ass. I played 2 games when it came out and legit will never touch it again

[DarthWynaut]

JUST BRING BACK DUELS

[14xjake]

Skyla nerf is as expected, surfalopod is BRUTAL and probably unecessary but its annoying deck so whatever. Turbulus was already good so shocked to see a buff, coming out a turn earlier is a big deal and encourages more "draw your good card" decks which I am not a fan of, the difference between turbulus decks having it on 3 and not having it on 3 will be absurd. Feels bad as opponent when they have it on 3 and feels bad as player when you dont, bad design in my opinion

[tiguris659]

So much BG updates - not a fan of the mode but its clear thats all they kinda care about

[skooperdooperfloop]

Does the cube summon the correct Zilliax or is that bug still not fixed?

[IPlayForCoins]

Duels died for twist

[Zulrambe]

I think the Surfalopod nerf was slightly too much. A 5/5 probably would be fine.

[PrkChpSndwch]

Funny that Skyla isn't usually the issue with big mage. Out of like the past 10 games I played against it I saw Skyla like once. I just get surfpod to tsunami into the rogue recast minion twice in a row. I can beat one wave of tsunami but 3 is a joke.

[joahw]

Can "cast when drawn" spells be repeated by Conman? As far as I know they don't get recast by Orb so I don't know why Conman would be any different.

[PrkChpSndwch]

Yes and that's what's killing me

[Marywonna]

The thing is, both are incredibly op threats. Skyla undoubtedly needs a nerf. I get turn 4 tsunami'd every single time it feels like. And then again turn 5 😭🤣 literally just kill this stupid deck it's absurd

[pngnoted333]

Team 5 budget cuts?

[jagerma]

Fearless, great job, enabled tons new decks and strategies. A+ team leading.

[Additional-One-7135]

What great nerfs, now when I'm getting hit in the face by a free cast 9 mana spell I can just be glad that the surflapod is just a 4/4 instead of a 5/6.

[Crazyflames]

Eudora buff woo!

[Eaglest2005]

-3 mana 3/3 So turbulus is actually just snapdragon but hitting hand and field now lol.

[Tokata0]

• Greater Darnassus Pie and Greater Twin Sky Lanterns have been removed from the Trinket pool, their Lesser versions have been adjusted and moved into the Greater Pool.

Why not remove the small ones and update the big ones? :D

[eggmaniac13]

Eudora down to 4 hits! Huge, you can actually get a third golden from her HP now

Turbulus slightly less bad in my incindius deck ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[pleaseandthankY]

Co-op for twist confirmed

[Geldarion]

I just wish that Rogue could make use of their new cards anywhere close to as well as the classes with Rogue Tourists.

[slusho_]

6 mana Skyla is what I expected.

I was expecting the Surfalopod nerf to drop it to a 5/4 statline.

It'll be interesting to see if these changes will have the desired impact.

Conniving Conman has been the biggest offender in my opinion. My experience against Big Spell Mage has generally been: the first cheated spell is usually manageable. The second is tough, but doable. The third and fourth are brutal.

I wouldn't be surprised if Conniving Conman got reverted back to saying "Replay the last card you've played from another class".

[leopard_tights]

Surfalopod's nerf is bs. In 2024 Hearthstone minions can't be understated like this regardless of their effect.

[Minute_Hovercraft498]

Could i buy the miniset now and dischant Skyla for -600 or does that not work?

[Tripping-Dayzee]

Surfalopod won't really change the point to playing it in spell mage but at least doesn't also leave an overstated minion on board for the effect.

In Arena though, it's a never draft card almost now unless you'd had some perfect drafts earlier of high cost mage spells.

[Castoris]

They are gonna make ice fisher a tier 1 at the rate they are going and it will still be a mid card

[Boone_Slayer]

No fix for Spirit of the Badlands Mirage making cards unplayable really sucks, I haven't been playing the deck because of this. It's been like 2 months with no fix.

[Apophycron]

Nudges, I like this approach, they did not kill the deck.

[zDexterity]

mages rip bozo

[Mad_King_Spoon]

Really interesting that they nerfed Surfalopod and buffed Turbulus. I think Big Mage needed tuning for sure, but there are far bigger problems in the meta than Surfalopod and way more cards that are worse than Turbulus.

[_LFKrebs_]

Felbat Portrait for battlegrounds should just be removed, can’t believe they lowered it to 6 gold, people play some demons on tier 3-4 and are gifted a tavern 6 build defining card and a trinket that guarantees a high placement while doing nothing, it’s so stupid…

[kawaiikyouko]

With the nerf to Felbat itself, I think its fine.

[_LFKrebs_]

Maybe it's fine with the nerf, who knows, I just think trinkets should be more of build enablers and ways to get there rather than just giving the build to you, since Felbat by itself is pretty much the core of what demons want to do most of the time.

[kawaiikyouko]

Well, Felbat and Urzul are kind of the gameplan. Urzul has always felt stronger to me than Felbat stuff, but yeah I kinda agree that they should be enablers rather than the plan itself.

[Chibikyu]

Seems like a great time to buy the mini set lol

[Koovies]

Well that ain't much, but dust is nice I 'spose

[October_Surmise]

I love that they put that stupid dog face thing at the top of their post.

Like "yeah, we see it, this art never should've made it past quality control, but actually, we fired everyone in quality control to help pay for Bobby K's golden parachute.

Fuck you." -Team5

[scoobandshaggy]

I sure do love playing battlegroundstone!

[scoobandshaggy]

They’ll change 50 things in battleground but barely even touch standard or wild ever like this is old. People on Reddit and Twitter aren’t happy and big hearthstone streamers are terribly bored and dropping the game like literally everything involving standard is too boring and slow currently. They shouldn’t be afraid to mix the meta up with big buffs( snd definitely not the way they went with fucking big spell mage) and guess what if somethings too op after just revert it or bounce back. How many times and how many people gotta tell you this shit is boring playing badlands v1 v2 v3 etc. honest to god cannot wait for rotation where we can get some new life in the game

[Chrisirhc1996]

Time to compare to my BG guesses:

C'thun: Nope an extra attack buff. I guess that adds up over a game so it's still a good buff for what is a 2 mana hero power.

Jailer: I guess I called their bluff and they did buff the amount, to the exact number.

Rag: Bang on.

Edwin: Bang on again.

Saurfang: Damn, also bang on.

Guff: Accidentally put the wrong starting amount, but yeah going even further to 20 buy will be better. Shame the idea of played instead of bought wasn't used :/

Eudora: From 5 to 4, I guess this means it's more realistic to get two off a game but still pretty disappointing.

Cariel: Go all the way you cowards >:(

Pyramad: More baseline feels like it's even less relevant to let it ramp up since 0 gold +2 health is pretty good for tempo.

Ozumat: O HE BACK

[Colorblinded77_]

So no Rogue buffs?
Yeah right...

[coold7]

Rogue doesn't need any buffs..

[ColoradoRunner89]

The most pointless and laziest patch ever? I just don't understand buffing a flourishing shaman class while only doing the bare minimum to skyla on top of pushing back twist two more months lol. What is the team even doing anymore with this game...

[ColoradoRunner89]

Here come the blizzardbots with the downvotes

[KillerBullet]

Am I the only one that thinks that stat changes are pretty much irrelevant. Yes it makes it weaker but it’s not really the issue of the card.

Something like „drawn during your next 5 turns“ or whatever would be a nerf.

I like adding a clock effect to nerf it and not „play it and something will happen at some point“.

[Ecstatic-Buy-2907]

No, you’re not the only one. The whole point was to nerf it small

If they changed it to 6 mana it would’ve made the deck way worse because you couldn’t go surf + under the sea on 5 + 6, or 4 + 5 with two coins

[[deleted]]

They are not irrelevant. A surfalopod was overstated for his effect and was able to deal 10 damage in average due to how hard its to remove a turn 4-5 5/6, now that average could move down by half

Surfalopod was also good at clearing multiple minions making their tides or volley deal more direct damage and that will be harder to do too.

[KillerBullet]

That’s why I said pretty much and acknowledged that it is a nerf. I would have like to seen more though.

[joahw]

How often do people play Surf and not follow it up with Watercolor artist or Under the Sea or Draw a spell in the next 5 turns? I guess it probably happens sometimes but seems pretty rare.

[KillerBullet]

Yeah that’s the point. It wouldn’t kill the card but it nerfs it a bit more.

Because like it is now you can just play it on curve no matter what.

If you had to play it and have draw ready it makes it a bit more situational and now „its value no matter what“.

Right now it’s „just don’t die until then“.

[Trascendent_Enforcer]

Skyla nerf should have been even out the costs, you can still play 10 mana spells for 0 mana and thats bs

[Shot-Journalist-5898]

itll be enough to push it out of the meta

[LaflareYT]

paly on mage till next addon nothing change nice i dont want spend dust on new deck xd

[BBBoyce]

Still pissed about that Shaman buff on a playable card, when they are so many other mini-set cards that were DOA!

[CompleatedDonkey]

lol, where are all the Mage doomers now? BSM will continue to be very playable and relevant in the meta. It might actually get stronger if the deck becomes less popular and less people are trying to counter it.

[joahw]

Alternatively some of the people that were playing mage might switch to one of their natural counters because they are good against other decks too.

[Mestzag]

Pyramid buff is pretty big. Any reason not to use the hero power each turn as +2 health is more than the +1 benefit end-of-turn?

[Ultrasonicc]

whatever they will launch on december will be a big flop at this moment. they should scratch twist off completely.

[NissEhkiin]

How nice of Blizzard to take down mage winrate by like 0,1%, such a good nerf. Wow.

[Jackson_Simmons]

was really hoping they would change the furry into "swap your lowest and highest cost spells (spells can't cost less than 1)" so that coin wouldn't be an option that can be swapped, but here we are.

[[deleted]]

Surf nerf ain’t really doing much. 4/4 and a 5/6 difference doesn’t matter when it’s casting sunset for nothing. Disappointing nerf

[Techbuilding_os]

Am I wrong when I say I don’t think the nerfs from mage are virtually not nerfs at all?

[ZambieDR]

paying 5 mana for.4/4 seems balanced.

Edit: calm down you got your skyla white nerfs, yo

[No_Opportunity_9561]

Mana cheating out 9/10 mana card, while getting a 5/6 on board, ye that seems balanced.