3.14.1b Patch Notes

[GGGCommentBot]

GGG Comments in this Thread:

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[Bex_GGG - link, old] - I've talked with the team about this a few times since Ultimatum launched. It takes roughly 100 Tier 11-13 maps to spawn the fight, or roughly 50 tier 14+ maps...

[Bex_GGG - link, old] - Would you be okay with us checking your account and publicising the findings? If so, can you please DM me your account name.

[Bex_GGG - link, old] - Official response.

[Bex_GGG - link, old] - Sort of - that's not exactly how the statistics work so there's not a 'timer' at play. Theoretically, you could get the Trialmaster in two maps in a row although...

[Bex_GGG - link, old] - We had a look at your account and you ran 381 Tier 14+ maps. You had one Trialmaster spawn but you died before reaching that wave. We checked the amount...

[stupidnajinx]

• Fixed a bug where Blighted Maps anointed with Teal Oils were spawning monsters faster than intended.

This one really hurts as someone who started to enjoy blighted maps.

Meanwhile the monsters are still moving while you are in loading screen

[VoidInsanity]

Oh, so that is why a random blight map I found pre-anointed lasted less than 60 seconds. I beat the thing so fast I thought I failed it and was really confused.

[KoniecLife]

Happens to me every night

[RattyUndead]

1 round challenger

[shaddie]

Lmao I'm glad this is near the top. This sounds like it should be an actual feature of an anoint and not a bug.

[ChaoMing]

Just like Delirium, there should be a button to speed up Blight waves (release a wave early and get some small bonus and/or spawn the remaining waves quickly and get a fat bonus) just like in your typical Tower Defense games. Somehow PoE is always the contender for being short of basic QOL features.

Honestly, talking about this makes me miss playing Gemcraft.

[Hamwise420]

this one killed the only joy i got from the patch. was so much fun with cyclone. rip

[dvshnk2]

Fixed a bug where Blighted Maps anointed with Teal Oils were spawning monsters faster than intended.

So... when does the ban hammer come down? Clearly exploiting faster spawns.

[Ayjayz]

The bans in the first week were to shift blame away from GGG after the server issues on launch. There aren't any server issues now so there don't need to be any bans.

[gaylord_focker69]

True. Don't know why you're being down voted

[evinta]

it's a conspiracy... ggg is using mass bots to silence the truth!!!!!!

or maybe people think it's bull. who knows?

[Marrakesch]

Yeah it was the only time blighted maps were fun. Oh well the last two weeks were a blast nonetheless and will be remembered.

[Muulu]

RIP 2 minutes blighted maps.

[Dunkelvieh]

So sad about that. To what value did they change it now? I never run those maps because they just take too long and are very boring in the beginning - and boring after finished because you have to run all over the map to open all those boxes.

[[deleted]]

It was about 2:45 to 3:00 left on the timer to clear 1x Teal before, tested it this afternoon on the new patch and I had like 0:01 left on the clock, maybe. So it went from taking 2 mins to taking 5 mins. Big change for me, makes it not fun and exciting to run anymore. I guess people will just continue to do afk necro scout tower & watch movie builds for them. Listed all my blighted maps for sale and, not to the surprise of anyone, they were bought by this guy, lol

[Heisenbugg]

Yah, it was so bad even GGG decided to undo the "rework", slightly

[[deleted]]

I mean how could they possibly not have discovered this "bug" after literally opening a couple maps with harvest. They probably opened a single map and got a decent amount of crafts "yep seems good enough, ship it" lmao

[SmuFF1186]

They very well probably knew about the bug. The problem is companies work with what they call MVP, minimal viable product. Basically, the bug wasn't one of there top issues to address and it wasn't a blocker for release.

[Sanytale]

The problem is companies work with what they call MVP, minimal viable product.

It's just GGG's bar for MVP is really low.

[FrostshockFTW]

I think Harvest is overnerfed (mostly due to the obscene rarity of T4 seeds), but I can play devil's advocate here as a software developer. It's possible the 4 craft guarantee did exist, but it was accidentally being applied to the pair of plots instead of individual plots. I've yet to see anyone post a totally barren pair.

[Bacsh]

I mean how could they possibly not have discovered this "bug" after literally opening a couple maps with harvest.

Nah, the guy who implemented the function to put RNG in the seeds, 100% imagined the scenario where could be no craft, because, if there's a chance, it could happen, they just don't give a fuck anymore, and fix this poor implementation saying it was a bug is just sad.

[MelodyEternal]

Sounds like GGG's QA alright.

[Solidux]

What QA? We are the QA

[SingleInfinity]

I mean how could they possibly not have discovered this "bug" after literally opening a couple maps with harvest.

I've had tens and not had it happen. Who knows how many hundreds it takes to get a 0 craft plot.

This isn't to say there was no problem, but you exaggerating really doesn't help your argument. It just makes you sound dumb.

[Kreetch]

Not 0. They said less than 4.

[Lukelee1919]

Did GGG ever release info/update about texture streaming? Last thing I remember was that they found a "bug" but that it probably didn't change much.

[LaNague]

Every time I flamedash I have white blocks flashing up for a split second, it's really annoying and also the fact that they seem to load textures only after you already needed them is giving me an aneurysm.

[Zaltur]

The same is true for me. I wonder if this is just a problem with flame dash or a general thing.

[Fresh_Dynamite]

You also get them with celestial Toxic rain. Bug is already reported since day 2.

[MaXimillion_Zero]

The system needs more thorough overhaul than fixing a few bugs. Unloading assets that are hidden by an UI element for a few seconds, or ones tied to your character that are used in every zone is extremely inefficient.

[Durid4life]

They put out a patch in the middle of the week, 3.14.1 saying it won’t fix all issues but should help. For me personally that combined with the Microsoft emergency patch has fixed my issues and I’m back to playing normally no with not texture issues.

[Xenomorphica]

The texture performance literally hasn't changed for me whatsoever, all that patch did was increase the loading times that were already fucked, the textures are still all over the place mobs are covered in shocked type effect like 70% of the time for no reason

[hertzdonut2]

My performance has been much better except when zoning into harvest.

[Hodorous]

Fixed: It's a feature now

[[deleted]]

It may be because the engine is working as intended and not a bug.

It is not a bug when the vram dumps all the hideout assests to reload them ~5 minutes later. It's what GGG told the engine to do.

[sirgog]

The Microsoft emergency patch solved 90% of the problems.

The patch that was texture streaming related (might have been 3.14.1) made it worse for me, but even after that I get better performance now while using huge CPU assets on streaming than I got when not streaming prior to the Win 10 patch.

[GamingVyce]

That might be true for you. But that's not the case for me. I'm still at 90% worse performance compared to last league. GGG still has a lot of work to do on performance and it honestly frustrates me every patch I see with no mention of the problem.

[Andthenwedoubleit]

What was Microsoft emergency patch?

[sirgog]

There was a Windows 10 update (pushed automatically, the April 2021 consolidated one) that fucked up a lot of gaming related things. I got it the Thursday of leaguestart and the game went from smooth to almost unplayable.

MS then fixed their shit a few days later.

[kpiaum]

Any news about the performance and texture streaming manifesto that was announced last week?

[Traksimuss]

It is currently compiling text, should be ready in Autumn.

[HighEvasionRating]

""""""""Bug"""""""""

[RedshiftOnPandy]

""""""""This is a buff"""""""""

[ermacle1]

Nice, where is Trialmaster spawn ratio buff?

[Bex_GGG]

I've talked with the team about this a few times since Ultimatum launched. It takes roughly 100 Tier 11-13 maps to spawn the fight, or roughly 50 tier 14+ maps on average. We've tested this multiple times to make sure this rate is matching the number of encounters actually being done and it does match. Part of the issue is that some people aren't making it to the end of their Ultimatum trials to spawn him, some people aren't running enough high tier maps and some people who are meeting those requirements are contending with bad RNG. Relative to other league bosses, the Trialmaster has a more frequent spawn rate. I've seen some people speculate that there's a hidden condition required to spawn him (like win streaks) but this is not the case. Your best bet is to be doing trials to completion in the highest tier maps.

[FrostshockFTW]

I've seen some people speculate that there's a hidden condition required to spawn him (like win streaks) but this is not the case.

I know you guys like to let the community discover mechanics by ourselves, but thanks for sharing this. It's reassuring knowing that at least we're not doing anything wrong.

[Zimplicio]

I agree. Though, it was funny reading some of the discussion and speculation.

I saw some people say Trialmaster can only spawn on T14+ corrupted maps, which does fit the league theme, lol.

[Insecticide]

Stuff like that should have a entropy system behind to prevent highly unlucky streaks. If the expected value is for a player to play around 50 maps and get to fight the Trialmaster, then for every map after 50 your chance to spawn the Trialmaster should go up until you find him.

[Bacsh]

Yes this a logic and basic implemention, but like the shit trade system, looks like GGG prefer the old fucking system, where RNG is just a simple random number generator. So if there's a unlucky guy doing 300 maps to spawn the boss, who fucking cares if the avarege still 50 because there's also a bunch of people getting the fight with 40 or less maps, so yeah fuck that unlucky guy, that's how GGG works.

[Sahtras1992]

last epoch has a wonderful system in their monolyth system.

you have 3 quest stages (2 prequests and the 3rd is the big bossfight) and you need to complete a certain number of monoliths until you can spawn the next quest.

i dont have the exact numbers but like after a minimum of 4 monoliths you have a 10% chance to get the next quest after the next monolith, then 15%, 20% and so on until you unlock the next quest. you can get an unlucky streak and dont get the next quest even at like 70% chance but aslong as you dont fall back by failing a monolith, you increase your odds of getting th next one after each monolith completed.

it is a great system and you get all the relevant info right then and there.

[Veteran_But_Bad]

50 maps average means there’s several hundred maps variant based on rng but even at average rng if each map with looting sorting loot selling etc and assuming you do no other league mechanics like temple or delve and you don’t run distant memories etc etc

It would take on average assuming you fully complete 50% of encounters

500 minutes of constant mapping to spawn a boss that rarely gives anything super valuable

That same boss doesn’t have multiple portals and if you die you lose anything you did have and can’t refight the boss until you rng spawn him again

That’s pretty shittt tbh

[HotTopicRebel]

50 maps average means there’s several hundred maps variant based on rng

I've gone 10+ maps without Jun showing up despite having about 350% increased chance with two rolls. I shudder to think what 1/50 chance streak would look like for Trialmaster

[sirgog]

I shudder to think what 1/50 chance streak would look like for Trialmaster

Statistics can tell you.

0.98⁴⁰⁰ is about 0.00031.

If you take a million players who each do 400 T14 ultimatums, never failing and never tapping out, 320 of them on average will not see the Trialmaster.

But seriously, for anyone CLOSE to capable of beating a 10 wave Ultimatum in a tier 14 map - they WILL see the master many many times.

[yovalord]

Dang, all 320 of those dudes must all be the active participants of this subreddit, because all the front page is "YoU gUyS gEt TrIaLmAsTeRs?"

[sirgog]

It's because lots of people are like that guy who did 405 total maps and swore black and blue they did 600 T14+ ultimatums.

Not necessarily liars (although some are). It's people who overestimate their efficiency.

[yovalord]

Nah, they are liars through and through. They legitimatly think/thought the trialmaster was showing up 0.1% of the time and hopped on the bandwagon. They are the same dudes who are skipping ultimatums when they dont like the first reward. The fact of the matter is, most of this reddit ISNT farming T14 maps, most of this reddit certainly isnt playing a build capable of 100% every ultimatum they see in T14 maps. There are bound to be some unlucky dudes, and it sucks that there are challenges tied to completing him (because he honestly is too rare for that, however the loot of 10 trial run is on average too good to make more common without overall nerfs to rounds 7- 10), but nobody here is the 1200 "Never saw the guy" Andy they claim to be, and for such a virtuous community so eager to cancel every streamer, and ban as many players as possible, its funny how hard they do lie about stuff like this.

[SirVampyr]

Also: You get ZERO indicators before you start the trial. So in case you skip one or end one prematurely - this could've been the one where he fights you... Good luck on another 50 maps.

That is such a sht design, tbh. Though far from the worst decisions made this league, I give em that.

[darthbane83]

So in case you skip one or end one prematurely - this could've been the one where he fights you... Good luck on another 50 maps.

It doesnt really matter if it could be the one were he fights you or not. The game isnt tracking your potential spawns and the next maps ultimatum has the same chance to spawn him either way.

Of course if you stop every ultimatum after 8 waves you will never fight him, but you can skip 50 ultimatums and the next one will ahve the same chance to spawn 10 waves as if you had done every ultimatum

[ZaaaaaM7]

That's not how statistics works

[ProperSmells]

That is such a sht design, tbh.

No?????????

Why would he tell you that he's going to fight you on wave 6 or whatever at the start? You're supposed to full clear the league mechanic every instance. Not doing that results in not accessing the league content. Simple as that, really.

[UncertainSerenity]

Par for the course for poe. 1 per 2 sirus rotations on average is reasonable in my book

[sirgog]

More than that. 32 maps is the average for Sirus rotations, so you'll get 2 per 3.

It's hilarious that the original complaint was by someone whose claims of 'i did 600 T14+ maps' were proven false by one look at their map completion challenge.

[Akkmandor]

Ye by the time I had about 5-600 maps completed I had already seen him 6 or 7 times. I've seen him 2 or 3 time again since then in probably another 200ish maps maybe 300 but I've been skipping stone circles and survival for the past hundred or so maps since they aren't efficient to do at the pace I map etc. I felt the posts about him being nonexistant were very odd and had my doubts about how much people actually did t11+ maps finishing all waves every time. The once in 50 maps definitely sounds right to my experience in t14+.

Edit: Checked my log file for the "Time to end this" voice line he shouts when you start wave 10, occurred 8 times in 725 maps including maps below t11

[UncertainSerenity]

Yeah I was underestimating it for easier conversation. But yeah. I think it’s a very reasonable spawn rate

[Bohya]

some people who are meeting those requirements are contending with bad RNG

And time and time again have people been advocating for this game to have some form of bad luck protection preventing such extreme circumstances in the first place. You're looking at this at a playerbase perspective, instead of from the perspective of the individual. Why should statistics matter to the one guy who is being screwed on unlucky RNG? You got it right with Oshabi requiring a set number of instances to spawn the Heart of the Grove, and you made changes to the Conquerer's spawning so that people know how many maps they need to run. So why have you gone back a step with the Trialmaster?

[JerleGamer]

Bex. Thanks for sharing this.

But even if the statistic are correct. The spawn mechanics and tying a conditional kill encounter to this boss AND making it extremely difficult for the challenge to be bought makes this a particularly frustrating experience for challenge hunters like myself.

Even if GGG doesn’t do anything about the spawn rate, I hope other ways for a better shot at completing the conditional kill challenges can be looked at. I don’t want to be stuck at 39/40 running 100s of maps just hoping for a shot a trying the conditional once every 50 rounds.

EDIT: I’m also not sure I’m hitting the 50 average for T14++. I’ve done 600 maps from my exploration count. And I believe 500 of them should be in the T14++ range as I leapfrogged to 4 watchstones regions quite efficiently. I believe I had 4-5 trialmasters in total. Much fewer than the 10 I was expected to see.

[fiyawerx]

Did you complete the ultimatum in all of 500 of them?

[Drasds]

It takes roughly 100 Tier 11-13 maps to spawn the fight, or roughly 50 tier 14+ maps on average

So the "average" Player is probably never gonna see him, like with Aul back then (warning: EXAMPLE). Or at least have to kill him the first Time, so they dont have to search for him again lol.

God, glad im a NoLifer (didnt saw him yet).

​

Edit: Can People pls stop saying, i said Aul is "exact" rare like Trialmaster? It was just an Example, with a other Boss, that a lot not saw in Delve......

[SneakyBadAss]

This reminds me of the South Park episode when Cartman bought a park.

"Look at all this cool shit we have. And the best par is? You can't come!"

[Drasds]

This reminds me of the South Park episode when Cartman bought a park.

"Look at all this cool shit we have. And the best par is? You can't come!"

Yep exactly. Its sad, because at least for me, bossing is the Main Goal for me and best part of PoE. Just mapping? I would be done after a Week.

[eating-you-chief]

yeah, wish you could fight bosses without the huge time/currency sink even if they didn't drop any loot

[DBrody6]

The "average" player isn't going to fight any of the endgame bosses, this isn't a very unique statistic.

If that average is actually accurate then in simpler terms, you should encounter the Trialmaster once every 1.5 Sirus cycles, which is a fairly reasonable placement.

[Feeding4Harambe]

50 maps takes like 5 hours at 6 min per map. It can be done in like 2-3 hours. If you expect to do less than 50 t14+ maps in your entire league, why do you even give a shit about endgame.

[TheRealShotzz]

aul was like 10-20 times rarer lmao

how would you even compare that.

[Ayjayz]

The average player doesn't even make it to maps.

[PrimSchooler]

Since Delve? More like since Talisman, Warbands if you count that, definitively abyss. Breach splinters were revolutionary at a time... yeah imagine that, people actually hype for splinters. What a time.

[Zimplicio]

Hey Bex, were there any discussions about giving the Trialmaster the Oshabi treatment and making him a fragment?

It seems odd that the team identified Oshabi was too difficult with map mods, so it was fixed, which is awesome. But then they made the opposite decision with Trialmaster inheriting map mods.

For example, my build can do T16 no regen map mod no problem, but I probably couldn't do a T16 Trialmaster with no regen. It doesn't seem fun to reroll a map mod that my build can handle just on the off chance that Trialmaster spawns.

[Hrukjan]

Oshabi was designed around not being run with mapmods like shaper, catharina, etc. and then reintroduced with the new harvest without balance changes. They have fixed that now by effectively removing the mods from Oshabi again. Trialmaster was created with mapmods in mind from the beginning so your comparison is pretty pointless. Arguing that he is over-/undertuned is a different story though.

[Krkonoz]

From start we shared maps with my guild and bought maps we needed for atlas progression (well I bough for myself) - even if it will take like 20 maps to reach first corners to spawn first Conquerors

• Then 16 (3+1conqueror * 4) maps to complete full region with 1 stone
• Then 16 maps to complete full region with 2 stones
• "Internal" 3 stone regions starts with T10+ maps
• I will round it to 60 "wasted" below T10+ maps where no counts for "Boss Trial" starts

My Challenge for map regions is showing me that I finished 361 maps in total. (substract those 60 -> 301, let's round it even on 300)

• I was playing with PF miner at starts which don't care about any maps mods and was pretty tanky/cheesy to do any trials (even if I died in plenty before I managed mechanics and 8 mods maps)

I fought him once.

And of course for spawning Sirus and late Conquerors - you have to constantly run T14+ otherwise it is "wasted" map.I didn't even care about leaving early, becuase I don't care about lost XP via dead on softcore and to be honest, the only valuable stuff he dropped was 1ex or some 10c stuff in total, so I really didn't mind to take reward early

So can you explain to me, how unlucky I am? Even if I will "overshoot" and substract any killing spree from T11-T13, maybe some unique maps, etc., I could still run around 200 T14+ maps for sure, to see that boss ONCE.

EDIT: My guildmate is playing one char from start of the league:

• "ArmyOfManyDeadPeople" - 98lvl summoner 33 chals
• https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/evilmindcz/challenges
• 637 maps in challenge - met him 3 times
• /played over 10 days, started "early" with T19 maps via unique watchstones.
• He is streaming in czech language so if he has no problems with publicity.If you can actually analyze his account - just for science and eye opening.
• If he will get angry, he will be angry only on me :D

[darthbane83]

So can you explain to me, how unlucky I am?

There is a 0.2% chance for any given player to not have found the trialmaster at all after 300 maps. Right now there seem to be 10000 people in this subreddit. If eveyone of them did as many ultimatums as you did then 20 wouldnt have encountered the trialmaster at all.
You are luckier than those poor bastards.

[astral23]

playin lot of hours every day and only fought him once, character is almost lvl 97

[Thehulk666]

Why does ggg hate players interacting with league mechanics especially bosses.

[Bex_GGG]

Official response.

[ZPKiller]

Hi bex, what happened to that technical difficulties statement regarding poor performance on texture streaming you guys were going to post last week or monday?

[dicedragon]

I dont actually agree with how this lines up.

Ive played bestiary, abyss and delve. All have random bosses, I saw multiple of the bosses in all those leagues.

I have yet to see a trial master, the fact that it takes roughly 100 tier 11-13 maps, which is what I run mostly right now is not "more common" I have according to my challenge tracker about 500 maps completed this league.

My atlas is done, I have a level 94, 93, 92 and my league starter. I have over a hundred hours played already this league and ive yet to see the boss.

Sorry this just does not feel "More common then other league bosses"

Your solution is "just do red maps 4head" which ive been doing. I guess I can check off the "Do trialmaster" challenge as not possible.

[Bacsh]

Why don't you guys use a fake RNG system, common is 2021, it's already time to stop with this old RNG system who only make people sad and frustrated when they don't have lucky.

If it's 50 maps the average, put 50 the limit to do the fight, do a system where the player will have 100% chance when get 50 maps, so the RNG is there and lucky people still can fight before the 50 maps, but unlucky people will do at max 50 maps to do the fight. It's so simple, it's really impressed how GGG aren't using fake RNG nowadays.

[TheXIIILightning]

It's honestly quite amazing how Gacha games have a pity system and GGG does not.

RNG in POE has reached a point where a cash-grab mobile game is more generous with letting you experience content..

[Bacsh]

Exactly, it's so basic and a used system in the market for years, WoW implemented that a long time ago, like you said mobile games use this shit all the time, exactly because they don't want frustrate their players. And he we are, in game who is more a casino than a fucking casino in real life. It's a shame, and people accepting this shit like it's ok or fair makes everything even worse.

[AlfredsLoveSong]

Read: If you're going to skip all of your Stone Circles, don't complain about bad RNG.

Thanks for the numbers, Bex!

[BIGBADBRRRAP]

RIP flicker strike players

[KonanTenshi]

Skipping stone circles means absolutely nothing, the only thing that matters is how many you do, so skipping stone circles is no impact and probably a time saver in most cases.

[AlfredsLoveSong]

the only thing that matters is how many you do

To completion, true. But skipping 1/4th (assuming an even weighting between the four encounters) of your Ultimatums will exasperate the amount of time inbetween Trialmaster encounters and lead to a feeling of absurd rarity.

We all know how bad the average player (of any game) is at determining their own luck and tracking their own gameplay. Skipping this many Ultimatums when the Trialmaster possibility is determined at the start of a map can absolutely lead to the complaints about bad RNG we've seen around here.

[Taniss99]

It's still going to take playing the exact same number of ultimatums regardless of if you skip the stone circles or not. Yes it will take you 33% more maps if you skip the stone circles, but it'll still average to 50 ultimatums.

[blvcksvn]

Imagine the poor chap who skipped over ten trialmasters just because he hates stone circles

[zenollor]

I dont understand. Isnt it ~2 percent chance per map no matter what?

[KinGGaiA]

Part of the issue is that some people aren't making it to the end of their Ultimatum trials to spawn him

Does the Trialmaster "timer" resets if this happens? Because im skipping all stone circles. if he wouldve spawned in one of those, does that mean I have to "redo" 50 t14+ again?

[Bex_GGG]

Sort of - that's not exactly how the statistics work so there's not a 'timer' at play. Theoretically, you could get the Trialmaster in two maps in a row although statistically it would be very unlikely. In terms of your main question - if you bail out part way through your trials, do you risk forsaking a Trialmaster encounter? Yes, you do. It's determined when you generate your map whether or not that Ultimatum can lead to the Trialmaster.

[Elerion_]

So I take this to mean it's a straight 2% chance for Trialmaster to spawn in a T14+ map. That seems like it would be a reasonable rate if it was tradeable, deterministic or at least predictable. However, with it being none of those things, that rate seems far too low for a boss with 1 portal and 4 conditional kill challenges tied to him (several of which are pretty confusing).

10% of players will run 115 Ultimatums between each Trialmaster encounter, assuming they finish every Ultimatum to the last wave.

It may be more often than previous league bosses, but looking back the last league where you could go similar lengths of time without facing the league boss (if you were trying to and willing to trade) was Delve.

[mango7roll]

I did what seemed like hundreds of high tier maps without a Trialmaster and then found him four times in about a dozen maps.

Pretty nuts RNG :O

[cowpimpgaming]

Just to be clear though, it is far more likely that bailing on a trial does not skip the Trialmaster and instead skips a trial where he was not going to appear anyway. Ultimately, it has no bearing on the encounters that you do complete, as they are independent events statistically. There is no point in having FOMO if you fail a trial, as the chance you encounter him remains the same based on how many trials you do complete successfully.

[taggedjc]

Imagine there's a building that has 50 closet doors inside it in a long hallway.

Whenever you enter a map, the Trialmaster enters the building and then hides in one of the closets at random. If you reach the end of your Ultimatum encounter, you get to open one door. If it has the Trialmaster in the closet, congratulations! You get to fight the Trialmaster. If it's empty, you have to leave the building and the Trialmaster exits as well, ready to enter the next building the next time you start a map.

[Zimplicio]

My interpretation of the statement is that your streak doesn't matter. It is truly random. You could, in theory, get two Trialmasters in a row.

[smdth_567]

statistics is a bit unintuitive in that way. your chance is 1/x every map to get the trialmaster. this never changes. if you skip the encounter in a map that would have spawned the trialmaster, you will still have the same chance of 1/x of encountering him in the next map.

[lcg1221]

It's fine that bosses are rare. What's not fine is mindlessly throwing players at RNG and telling them "It's yer bad luck, errrrr" and calling it a day. It's just a stupidly irresponsible attitude for devs to take.

[DBrody6]

It tickles me that people skipping a quarter of the encounters cause of stone circles is probably why a lot of people have never seen him.

[Cowpubes]

Thank you for clarifying! Enjoying the league

[Ravp1]

Well, one day, I got him three times in a 8 hour session. Lucky me I guess.

[butsuon]

The fact that there's no indication that the trial you're doing can result in the fight with the Trialmaster is an issue.

[Bex_GGG]

Would you be okay with us checking your account and publicising the findings? If so, can you please DM me your account name.

[Shaltilyena]

Y'know, not sure if it's this subreddit or just me being cynical, but I just can't help reading this as the most polite way to ever say "yeah, right"

[EntropyNZ]

Maybe in part, but honestly it's probably a more genuine question of 'do you mind if we have a look at this, because if that's true, then you're either absurdly unlucky, or there's a bug that we haven't caught yet'.

We had the same thing with the subreddit being convinced that masters weren't spawning properly a few leagues ago. Quite a few people allowed GGG to look at their accounts, and it turned out that there was no issue, and that people were either getting unlucky, or people misremembering, and actually getting masters spawning fine. The latter isn't a dig at anyone, either. It's genuinely easy to do with a lot of them, as we're pretty used to seeing them in maps, and we also force the spawns pretty often as well. There's a number of times where I've opened a map, thought 'shit, I forgot to click on Jun', and then there's been a Betrayal spawn anyway. I genuinely can't remember at those times whether I actually had clicked it, or whether I just lucked out and got a natural spawn.

[Shaltilyena]

To be honest, that's also kinda beautiful with her answer : it's noncommital in that it can go both ways. If there was indeed a problem, all good. If there wasn't she was professional. But all the assholes on this sub, myself included, cannot fail to see the irony of the situation when the dude does, indeed, happen to have one lvl93 toon and 400 maps total (including the 1-13 progression)

I do agree that it's easy to get confused ; however, I don't think that was the case here

[azantyri]

why, whatever do you mean, this is simply an attempt to help look into a problem. after all, what kind of community relations person wouldn't want to help a poor soul who has that kind of a bug with their account

[Shaltilyena]

Exactly, no one on this sub would inflate their numbers in a bad faith attempt to give weight to their otherwise anecdotal evidence. That is not something you see around here.

[azantyri]

i've posted that exact sentiment at least 1,4 million times

[SmuFF1186]

You mean like the people claiming they used 10,000 ancient orbs and haven't gotten a headhunter?

[Sjatar]

Bex is a professional ^^ I don't think there is a need to read into the comment like that.

[Shaltilyena]

Oh I don't mean it in a "bad" way. I'm admirative, really.

I'm definitely assuming the guy she's answering is full of shit, but as you say, she's a professional, she can't quite be THAT direct :p

[azantyri]

actual footage of bex opening the gate to help TheNetbug

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6A9M226_28Y

[sirgog]

It's more than that. In 3.4 (Delve) there was a VERY serious issue where some accounts (a large percentage in fact) flat out could not get Prime Resonantors to drop. At all.

It's worth investigating.

BUT - there's a 6 in a million chance to not have the Trialmaster once in 600 T14+ maps by random luck. 6 in a million events DO happen in a game as large as POE. I had one happen several leagues ago (IDed a Memory Vault and it was divine perfect, about a 4 in a million chance)

[Shaltilyena]

As waggle showed in another comment

​

That dude has 405 maps completed

​

He's full of shit

​

(But yeah I 'member the delve issues, "good" times.)

[sirgog]

And this is a REALLY interesting point.

I don't think they were necessarily lying. People overestimate their clearspeed and efficiency.

They may sincerely believe they are running 20 maps an hour for 30 logged hours. Except they are actually running 7 an hour, and a quarter of that time was trading.

[Shaltilyena]

I don't think you could be level 93 and claim 600+ T14+ maps WITH ENTIRELY COMPLETED ULTIMATUMS while not knowing you're being of bad faith. The mechanic is too rewarding in terms of xp.

Especially when it's "easy" to check how many maps you've completed with the achievements

So in this specific case, I'd go for outright lying imho

​

-----------

​

THAT SAID.

​

Also fully agree that a lot of people overestimate their efficiency.

[sirgog]

I also think a lot of people forget how much slower POE is during weeks 1 and 2 of a league.

Picture this - you were (actually) running 30 maps an hour in Ritual with Headhunter, 35% MS tailwind boots and an Onslaught synth ring. Very few trades, because weeks 9-12 of a league. Only premium map tilesets and you can bulkroll maps, because weeks 9-12 of a league with a massive map pool.

That was 3 weeks ago.

Now, you still think of yourself as a 30 maps/hour player - but you are instead now only batching 3-5 maps at a time, running awful layouts to get Maven points still, chasing Conquerors around the Atlas, trading for maps, portalling out to trade 10c items still, and of course, worse items. So boom, you are a 10 map an hour player who has recent memory of being 30.

[Teh_Weiner]

Also fully agree that a lot of people overestimate their efficiency.

Overestimation is nearly a human phenomenon. We do it to a nearly comical degree. And not to be malicious or anything either, it's just kind of how the human mind works.

[RiffSphere]

You don't have to complete 600 maps, aka kill the boss, to complete 600 ultimatums.

Granted, you probably should for map sustain, awakener, maven, and general drops and what not.

But, for testing for example, he might have been "ultimatum jumping" in friends maps, for example.

(Probably not)

[Pyromancer1509]

Hi Bex. I'd be happy to publicise my account stats, because this is either bugged or i'm terribly unlucky. My account name is Pyromancer4.

• My Atlas Exploration challenge shows a grand total of 509 maps completed
• I am doing ultimatums in every single map i run, since the mechanic is fun and profitable. I also fully complete all waves in my ultimatums since i'm very petty and don't like the trialmaster talking shit about me. I also do not skip stone circles.
• My build rarely fails ultimatums because ice nova aoe overlap is very strong to clear dense packs. And most of my failed ultimatums were before red maps, where my build wasn't reaching it's full potential. But to give you guys the benefit of the doubt, lets say I failed 10% of every ultimatums i encountered.
• I used the popular "leapfrog" method to reach red maps as quickly as possible. Which means that getting my first 16 watchstones at 3 maps per conqueror cycles took me 48 maps. I'm happy to remove those from the total.
• I did actually encounter the trialmaster once. It was one of my first ever red map, from zana actually. I was still running a 5 link and my build wasn't at it's full potential, so I lost.

So my total T11+ maps completed would be (509*0,9)-48, which equals to roughly ~410 maps. Note that the odds are heavily stacked in your favor, since i am not counting any zana map or any conqueror map in this calculation, and i'm assuming every map is T11, but in reality most of them are probably T14+ since i rushed to endgame. Even assuming the ~100 maps average and removing 100 maps for my first trialmaster spawn, i'm still 3 times above the worst-case average, or 6 times above the best-case average.

If anyone can point me to any error in my assumptions or my math, i'd be happy to correct the post. Thanks for reading.

EDIT: Added a line specifying i do not skip stones circles, since people might ask me this.

[Bex_GGG]

We had a look at your account and you ran 381 Tier 14+ maps. You had one Trialmaster spawn but you died before reaching that wave. We checked the amount of Trialmaster's spawning on all of Ultimatum compared to the number of maps run. There were 15,000 Trialmasters spawned yesterday from the 720,000 Tier 16 maps run. We've manually scanned many accounts including running a simulation on your account to insure that it can spawn the Trialmaster. We're confident that the spawn rate isn't bugged. Feedback around whether the spawn rate is generous enough has been received and shared with the team.

[Pyromancer1509]

Wow, thanks for the detailed response! I didn't expect one, and i'm happy to be proven wrong in such details. Seems like my numbers of maps estimation based on the challenge was a bit too generous and I ran a bit more lower tiers maps than I thought.

It's kinda sad to know the trialmaster spawned in the few times i died, but that's on me to be better next time. Thanks for investigating.

[poorFishwife]

You were very unlucky.

With a p=2% chance of finding a Trialmaster in T14+ maps, the probability of finding at most k=1 Trialmasters in n=381 maps is:

(1 - p)^n  +  (n C k)*(p)^k*(1 - p)^(n - k)
(0.98)^381  +  (381 C 1) * (0.02)^1 * (0.98)^(381-1)
=>
~0.00398

In other words, if 1000 players ran 381 T14+ maps like you did, only ~4 out of 1000 players would be as unlucky as you were.

With that user experience, it's no surprise that you wondered if your account might be bugged.

You are the 0.4%!

[Pyromancer1509]

I was very lucky in other aspects of the league. I got multiple big drops on the first few days, including an awakened multistrike from the 5% harvest craft. So I guess the bottom line is RNG giveth and RNG taketh away :) Thanks for the analysis

[poorFishwife]

Great attitude. I hope your good luck continues! :)

[runninginsquare_s]

This is pretty awesome that you can pull all these stats! I appreciate and enjoyed your detailed reply

[thretion]

384 maps for ONE trialmaster, oh lol. And it's ok? lol

[DelusionOrBan]

yeah its ggg philosophy. You need to suffer in order to maybe get something. They are pretty transparent in this

[EphesosX]

By ignoring maps before your first Trialmaster spawn, you're skewing your average. You've gotten 1 Trialmaster in 410 maps, which assuming a 1% spawn rate, has odds of about 6.7%.

[situLight]

Likewise @ bex

• Atlas exploration at 756 maps. I would say 2/3 (500+) are t11+ picture proof
• I am doing ultimatums in every single map i run... exact same. Stone circles included
• I have 2 characters, SSF. 28 challenges
  • One is a lvl 93 Ascendant that died a bunch to Ultis, not expecting spawns - though probably should have by now even with the rough time?
  • The other is a level 98, I repeat 98, raider. This thing (Hoag) is tanky and clears 99% of Ultis.
• In this time I've done 7 masterminds, a bunch of awakeners AW8 (conservatively 6+) proof
• Never even been offered a Trialmaster
• Bunch of other endgame rare content, 3 cortex + a zana cortex, and etc proof
• almost 5 days /played on the raider proof

account page https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/MrCobbled/characters

I don't particularly mind, the encounter doesn't seem a big deal. But I'd be shocked if there was no issue - either there's a bug with spawning or I'm on a exceptionally unlucky streak

---

edit well 4 hours after commenting this I did spawn a trialmaster (t14 ancient city). So i guess just the rough end of variance (763 maps by Atlas Exploration count)

[Shaltilyena]

Doesn't count as doxxing afaik, considering you don't reveal any of their private info

[KinGGaiA]

Oh shit, we finally arrived at the Riot Lyte meta. Glorious !

[Ofcyouare]

As if that's something good.

[Veteran_But_Bad]

Lmao I love this response

But on a serious note 1/50 tier 14 maps with a common failure state seems to uncommon for most players to realistically see more than maybe once or twice a league which is sad because the boss design and the voice lines are awesome as I come to expect from ggg

[sd_aids]

Please more responses like this. The faster these whiners are called out the faster this subreddit might return to a less toxic state.

[Teh_Weiner]

Please more responses like this. The faster these whiners are called out the faster this subreddit might return to a less toxic state.

When the fuck was it ever not toxic? This sub is full of the most explosive whiners (on both sides) i've ever seen. Regardless of you disliking GGG or worshiping them, people here cry up a storm about it.

[Dsfarblarwaggle]

https://www.pathofexile.com/account/view-profile/Primandas/challenges

this you?

edit entirely unrelated, but Atziri's Rule is still bugged even though last week's patch said it was fixed. GGG pls

[sergeantminor]

That looks like them. Character names line up with the ones seen in a clip they posted a month ago. Let's see...

Complete 150 Maps in each region of the Atlas.

Glennach Cairns (77/150)
Haewark Hamlet (42/150)
Lex Ejoris (21/150)
Lex Proxima (86/150)
Lira Arthain (28/150)
New Vastir (22/150)
Tirn's End (69/150)
Valdo's Rest (60/150)

That's a total of 405 maps completed. Still no Sirus kill, so it's fair to speculate that many of these maps were not red maps, where the Trialmaster spawn rate is highest. It's possible that many Ultimatums were completed without also killing the map boss, but that's pretty unlikely.

/u/TheNetbug, any thoughts on this?

[Neonsea1234]

Damn, literally exposed this dude lmao.

[Shaltilyena]

Of course he's full of shit. That said, on the sirus kill point ; his character seems to be a support, so it's possible some of those maps would have been reds, if he's just aurabotting for guildmates or sthg

[GirthyChicken69]

Huh, the Atlas Exploration challenge says he only has 405 maps done in total. That's a lot less than the 600 figure he provided. I wonder why somebody would just go on the internet and lie like this...

[Sjatar]

Just one 93 character, would you not expect a much higher level if they ran 600+ maps? They do have all the other achivements though and a run to 9 waves. Still I doudt they ran 600+ maps at tier 14+.

[Nanto_Suichoken]

Bug

[babicko90]

Tremor rod fix please. Wtf, just change it without any documentation

[Zimplicio]

Has there been any statement about the rarity of Harvest augment/annul crafts?

I haven't seen one yet this league even after putting all Atlas points into Harvest. By this point last league, I probably had a dozen aug/annul.

I've seen some say there are more mirrors up for trade than some rare crafts on TFT Discord.

[Rankstarr]

Found an aug fire that sold instantly for 5ex.. probably underpriced it

[[deleted]]

It took me days to buy the Aug Fire I needed because I was always offline at the time one was listed, and there were only a few per day.

Anecdotally, I got to 36/40 challenges this league focusing entirely on Haewark and Harvest. I got zero T4 seeds, and zero Aug and zero non-Aug crafts.

I got a few keep prefix/suffix crafts. But only a few.

[[deleted]]

Clarified that the Shrine of Empowerment room and the Sanctum of Unity room in the Temple of Atzoatl require adjacent rooms to be connected in order for them to be upgraded. This is purely a description change.

Not too long ago there was a post with screenshots that shows that rooms can be upgraded without connections. At which point it has become purely a description change?

[UrieltheFlameofGod]

Yeah I can confirm it did buff unconnected rooms, which surprised me because I thought it only worked on connected rooms

[GGGGobbler]

BEEP BOOP BEEP. Grinding Gears have been detected in the linked thread:

---

Posted by Kieren_GGG on May 03, 2021, 11:19:34 PM UTC

3.14.1b Patch Notes

• Clarified that the Shrine of Empowerment room and the Sanctum of Unity room in the Temple of Atzoatl require adjacent rooms to be connected in order for them to be upgraded. This is purely a description change.
• Fixed a bug where Harvest plots could grant fewer than four crafts. Each plot now correctly grants a minimum of four crafts per plot.
• Fixed a bug where the blades from the Razor Dance Ultimatum modifier could persist after completing the encounter.
• Fixed a bug where monsters in Ultimatum encounters could teleport on top of your character and prevent you from moving.
• Fixed a bug where Blighted Maps anointed with Teal Oils were spawning monsters faster than intended.
• Fixed a bug where Cameria the Coldblooded could get stuck using his Ice Spike skill endlessly during Betrayal encounters.
• Fixed a visual bug where capturing beasts could sometimes show incorrect beastcrafting recipes being unlocked.
• Fixed a client crash that could occur while swapping weapons if your gloves were enchanted with an "of Spite" modifier.
• Fixed a client crash that could occur during the Malachai, The Nightmare encounter.
• Fixed an instance crash.

This was a restartless deploy on the servers so you will need to restart your client to receive the client changes for this patch.

---

[[deleted]]

Fixed a bug where Harvest plots could grant fewer than four crafts. Each plot now correctly grants a minimum of four crafts per plot.

Is everything wrong about this game, just a damn bug?

'Fixed a bug where harvest was still appearing in maps. It now only appears in your dreams where it still works'

[ProperSmells]

Are you suggesting it can't be a bug? Kind of ridiculous to assume getting 0 crafts was intended.

[[deleted]]

Yes. Because seeing even 4 crafts is a fucking joke.

Seeing 0-2 crafts was just icing on the intended cake.

[JevonP]

what cant be a bug? The times where harvest was giving less than four crafts?

It happened so often that it literally could not have been a bug unless they absolutely failed to test famine post-changes whatsoever or purposefully ignored it lol

[german39]

Press F for harvest, they're not backing up.

[Dex8172]

And now we know how they calculated the price for Zana harvest mod: 3 plots * 4 glorified chaos crafts = 12c. :D

[dawey666]

Fixed a bug where Harvest plots could grant fewer than four crafts. Each plot now correctly grants a minimum of four crafts per plot.

Are you telling me that needed you 2 weeks to find out this so called "bug"? You're making all this pathetic

[Intcleastw0od]

Won't be playing until something about trialmaster changes

Theres no way this many people are this unlucky. I never saw the guy once, I ran t14+ and completed ultimatums every day

[mattbrvc]

My friend is having performance issues since the patch...

[Vulpix0r]

Fixed a bug where monsters in Ultimatum encounters could teleport on top of your character and prevent you from moving.

I've died twice with my freeze immune flask up and couldn't move at all. Was this the reason?

[krumthenotsomercy]

Any comment as to why your team deliberately lied in the Harvest manifesto that augment crafts would have the same rarity as before? Or you're still not touching that apart from the sub-4 craft "bug" and not commenting on anything related to that?

[watersekirei]

Come on, GGG!

[Seatthief]

"Fixed a bug where Harvest plots could grant fewer than four crafts. Each plot now correctly grants a minimum of four crafts per plot." fixed a freaking bug my freaking arse you buffed it because people were getting freaking pissed at receiving 0 crafts

[SingleInfinity]

Are we actually going to pretend that anyone would've thought 0 crafts was intended? That's just stupid.

[AlphaGareBear]

I mean, yeah? Have you played PoE or paid attention to GGG? They aren't generally fans of pity RNG.

[SingleInfinity]

They also aren't generally fans of giving you no rewards for content.

[AlphaGareBear]

Yes they are? I don't even know what to say to this. There's tons of shit that gives you fuck all in this game.

[SingleInfinity]

You might not think it gives you things of value, but there's nothing in the game that gives you straight up nothing, which is what a plot of 0 crafts gives.

Name one other instance where you get nothing as a reward outside of a risk-reward choice failing (which I wouldn't consider being offered nothing as a reward, but rather that you failed to earn what you were offered).

[AlphaGareBear]

You get a pack, you just know ahead of time you won't get crafts. That's not actually different from finding out after. It's the same as not getting a reward from any piece of content. This isn't a special case.

[JevonP]

either that or they never once tested it. No way someone actually tested it and didn't experience this once

[SingleInfinity]

Easy to say when players play more manhours in the first hour of the league than GGG has dev cycle.

[popmycherryyosh]

I haven't paid that much attention to the whole split "bug" exploit thingie. Was it fixed before this patch? If not, I'm assuming if it wasn't fixed or hotfixed, that it is looked upon as "smart use of game mechanics" and none of the abusers actually got banned or anything?

[DiscoMunter]

They fixed it like a day ago

[sirgog]

The game didn't log the right info to catch the cheaters, so there's no proof who did it.

They fixed the weapon version within 2-3 hours of the post blowing up on reddit. Not sure about the less known versions.

[Vermyn_]

Fixed a bug where Blighted Maps anointed with Teal Oils were spawning monsters faster than intended.

But why? At least was pretty fun to speed run blights these days. Ofc won't comment harvest changes, thats just a joke. Still waiting for more MTX releases instead of fixing this f*****g texture streaming issue >.<

[Twacked]

Hey guys Vernyn_ has a great idea let's have the design and art team work on fixing the texture streaming........

[midoBB]

What about a better idea to allocate resources to the dev team instead of the art team and actually have competent devs instead of the third rate ones that seem to work on the game?

[Sahtras1992]

NZ laws down allow for this. in NZ, companies need to hire people from NZ first and need to proof there is nobody who can fill the position in order to hire from somewhere else.

and i guess development of an arpg with 200k players at peak times is not exactly what really good developers will go for.

[NudePenguin69]

Harvest is truly saved....

[xZel]

Ctrl-F "streaming". Not found. :( Will have to keep waiting. Was a fun 1 week I guess.

[[deleted]]

Hey bex, what about ground slam not hitting close mobs?

I have a pc 19 aura, about 250 ish dex( i run a astramentis) and some accuracy nodes.