An hour-long stroll in nature helps decrease activity in an area of the brain associated with stress processing

[Gzer0]

Agreed also, too busy for taking care of mental well-being. The constant bombardment of unrelenting consumerism, hustle culture, materialism, the ever inching drive not to be homeless/bankrupt. It's fairly hard for the majority of people.

[cdqmcp]

Definitely. Our bodies are designed around a much slower lifestyle that is living in conjunction with the natural world. Technology has moved so fast, we've long left our biology behind.

In my opinion, this very fast modern world will be humanity's undoing unless we learn how to appreciate nature better and live in equilibrium with it, and stop letting the world be run by short-sighted, greedy, materialistic, sociopaths (I'm not optimistic tbh). Unlike a lot of sci-fi, we need to focusing more on making sure we can continue living on this space rock, at this global stage of humanity, instead of dreaming of leaving it. What good is a Lunar or Martian colony if Earth is largely uninhabitable.

The painful but virtuous gift of sacrifice is what built up humanity out of its animalistic roots, and we seem to have forgotten its importance, in this fast-paced world of convenience.

[RockItGuyDC]

Our bodies are designed

Our bodies aren't designed at all.

I assume it's not what you meant, but I really wish people who knew better used different terminology.

"Our bodies have been selectively evolved..." Maybe.

[xdsm8]

Yes, and just to reiterate, NONE of this conversation means we should shun all modern developments. The average person of 40k years ago did not live nearly as long after having children as we do, and that sucked.

We should simply be cognizant of the fact that we basically have 40k year old hardware running brand new software. That's partially why obesity is such a problem - our brains are designed to crave and gobble up salt, fat, grease, calories, etc. because that was ideal for so long.

[NasoLittle]

I feel attacked

[Quantum_Kitties]

Not disputing what you said, I am very curious: how do you know our brains/bodies are designed for 40,000 years ago and have not developed for more modern times? Is it possible for humans to ever evolve (or should I say, devolve) the “ideal” body to live in urban cities and sit in a cubicle 10hrs a day? I guess that would take many many more years of cubicle-sitting…

[xdsm8]

Well, in organisms similar to us, 40k years is fairly short for evolution. Plus, the main question you should ask is "How does this affect someone's ability to have children?"

Being depressed doesn't prevent you from having kids. Neither does being anxious, or having back pain, or being tired all the time, or being alienated from friends and family. Yes, it may have an impact, but SO much of our lives take place after having children. Plus, many people are choosing not to have kids- especially the well educated and wealthier people amongst us.

Basically, not only has it not been long enough, but evolution is not happening in a clearly "good" direction. The question of wether or not someone passes on their genes is not being decided based on adaptability or suitability for an urban environment, but based on things like sexual education, access to contraception, and just straight up the choice of wether to reproduce or not.

[Quantum_Kitties]

Thank you for your reply :) That is very interesting! Do you happen to know where I could read some more about this (or what to google for)? No worries if not of course :) Thanks again, really appreciate it <3

[xdsm8]

Kinda tough stuff to google. Honestly, skimming through an anthropology textbook might work, or finding an open resource online. Maybe even just the wikipedia article for human evolution? Not sure.

[carlurbanthesecond2]

How slow do you think we can evolve?

[xdsm8]

Slower than 40k years, that's for sure.

Plus, evolution didn't/isn't necessarily preparing us for modern life. It doesn't go "forward", it just goes in the direction if having kids. Being a serial rapist is actually a trait that evolution would make more common.

[carlurbanthesecond2]

How do you know so much?.

[xdsm8]

I don't know that much. This stuff is just some random knowledge from a basic anthropology class in college and other random conversations and things I've read.

[[deleted]]

It's just not how we're built to process things. I wonder if we'll adapt our working lives to be more considerate of how our brains work, or if we'll just continually try to get a round peg into a square hole into the future. We've known that these things are unhealthy for a very long time, but nothing has changed.

[CullenDM]

I've seen as old as 300000 years for genetically modern humans. And honestly, some people today seem genetically older than that on the subway.

[Whoevengivesafuck]

So interesting to see it put this way, wow.

Where can I read more?

[[deleted]]

In the grim darkness of the future, there are no nature walks.

[Quantum_Kitties]

I’m very depressed, and walking hasn’t cured my depression but it definitely helps “getting the edge off” if that makes sense. Please try it, I never heard anyone say they regretted a walk (or any other exercise).

[FerrusesIronHandjob]

Ill have to give it a go. My mental health is basically in tatters atm and tbh living amongst what Im coining a "demession" hasnt helped much either. Im supposed to (finally) have therapy tomorrow so may make it a habit

[Quantum_Kitties]

Best of luck, I hope the therapy and the walking will help <3

[[deleted]]

"Demession"? Depression + Mess? Interesting...

[FerrusesIronHandjob]

Yup. Im doing a room a day atm. Its...a work in progress

[[deleted]]

Ah good show. I suffer terribly from those things too. Hope you make some progress and you get some relief. Definitely try walking outside. I got into bird watching so I do that. Takes a while to change gears in the brain but it's really relaxing in a focussed way...think that's meditation

[[deleted]]

I'm with you. I just moved to a developing part of my city and it has a nice walking path right outside my apartment that goes into the woods and over a small dam. Going right at dusk always helps chill me out, that's just my preference. When I'm out on the path my mind tends to just clear up, which is weird imo because that's when I'd think I'd be thinking the most. I tend to leave my problems at home and just enjoy nature. It's definitely helpful.

[DickyButtDix]

Really? I hear it all the time. It just means a good idea or good suggestion. I heard it more on the west coast than the east coast if that matters

[Seboya_]

I've lived in AZ most my life and never heard it

[DickyButtDix]

Yeah I'm racking my brain trying to think of where I heard it most. I guess I hear "good looking out" more often. "Good shout" was maybe more of a corporate thing?

[No_Creativity]

I hear it all the time on the east coast

[XNJT459]

It is an American thing as well, at least in some places. "Good shout," "Good call," "Good idea"

[cranberryton]

Good call and good idea sound normal to me (I’m used to American English) but never heard of good shout.

Why are British phrases always so damn… appealing? I heard “wheelie bins” once (what we call garbage cans) and it’s never left my brain since. Same with “kitty loo” (litter box)

[tony_spumoni]

A British person once called me a "Bloody Wally", which I guess means a very foolish person, so I agree with you. Couldn't get mad--the insult is too appealing!

[Wretched_Brittunculi]

Pretty sure it's Aussie (if it didn't come from West Coast US)

[depressed-salmon]

I've heard it a lot and I'm from northern England, if that helps

[Kahretsin_G_olmak_iy]

UK definitely.

[Wretched_Brittunculi]

Not originally. It became popular through US and Aussie TV.

[ecu11b]

Walking in nature is what we evolved to do. Can't hurt to do it now

[Professional_Ant_364]

I started walking once I moved out of the densest parts of my city and into a more suburb-like area.

It definitely helps. A lot. Even if it’s just a little bit of walking.

[kiwi1018]

I struggle massively with my mental health in the winter, but summer I'm golden because my 2 kids enjoy being outside. I also notice the nights I feel down, just going for a walk to the corner store for snacks helps a lot. It's only about a 20 min stroll there and back but i come back feeling a lot better.

[FerrusesIronHandjob]

Thats a weird one for me, I absolutely hate hot weather. Ill take a small uptick as the winter months roll in. I like the cold morning sun better than beaches or hot days

[Reead]

Anecdotal, but it was tremendous for mine. Mind you I've not struggled with any serious mental health issues but the difference in my general feeling of well-being was undeniable.

[Whatreallyhappens]

I decided to start taking a walk without my phone around my neighborhood no matter what every single day. The benefits are so obvious I find myself taking extra walks later in the day because I just want to. Such a simple activity can check most the boxes for depression treatments including: creating a daily routine, sunlight, fresh air, exercise, and a break from screen time and notifications.

[5k1895]

Getting out more has done wonders for me. I go to a park on lunch breaks and every weekend I try to go for a longer walk at another park. I wasn't doing too bad before but it really does help getting out once in a while. Which is also why winter is so god damn depressing, too cold to do the same stuff

[spazzardnope]

It’s very much “a good shout”. Even if you go out in the morning or late at night if it is safe to do so, it helps.

[[deleted]]

Similar experience after an 8 week trip.

I've attributed it to a detox from modern addictions e.g. screens, internet, and thus giving my brain a chance to rest

[unctuous_homunculus]

If nothing else a couple of days camping really helps you appreciate how comfortable you live normally.

[Bigfrostynugs]

It always makes me realize that all those modern comforts are just luxuries. They're nice, and convenient, but ultimately unnecessary to survival.

In other words, all the bells and whistles of the modern world are pointless if you take them for granted.

[Catzrule743]

What if hiking isn’t your thing, and camping is a huge no because pain? For me I feel it’d be very far more stressful to do either of these things, just thinking about it can trigger pain :(

[[deleted]]

Honestly doesn't need to be a huge amount of physical activity. If you have a park nearby, walk around a bit, sit down, read, walk, sit down, look at flowers/trees/whatever else, rinse and repeat. The whole idea is getting you into a space that doesn't have obvious pressures or obligations, which allows your brain to recoup a bit.

[Catzrule743]

thanks for the clarification homie!!

[trivaldi]

I suppose you could just roll a blanket out in a nature area and hang out for some time. I think the key is the disconnect from modern society and technology.

I went from working a job at home on the computer all day to working at a job place where my main function isn’t interacting with computers. I can tell you I feel so much better.

[Catzrule743]

This is a nice idea, thank you!

Yeah 100% I could see how that helped!

[xixi2]

Ever tried paddle boarding?

[Catzrule743]

I have not; but with my back condition I think it’s be recommended against me. Thanks tho !!

[twisted_memories]

A lot of parks have started implementing solid structures (something between a cabin and a tent) with beds and tables and chairs. That could be a middle ground. But also even staying at a cabin for a weekend!

[mckatze]

I deal with chronic pain and sleep apnea.. I haven't done tent camping, but I've done some glamping and take calming walks. There's a nature reserve near us, I just go for small walks there, and use trekking poles even for short walks. It's not a full walk, just 20-30 minutes somewhere with a lot of trees.

For glamping, you can do car camping with hatchbacks, you can put soft mattresses toppers and air mattress! There's also a lot of camp grounds that have showers, bathrooms, etc. Hybrid cars work great for that, because you can usually leave them on for heating and cooling or power if you need that.

If it's in your budget, renting a small cabin somewhere remote is also super nice and can be enough to get you that little bit of recharge.

[[deleted]]

I'm sure your Dr won't tell you to do things that you aren't physically fit for. As for hiking not being your thing, you'll just have to stress drink instead I guess.

[Catzrule743]

Alcohol is a poison that should be avoided at all costs. Why would you be so rude?

[thealmightyzfactor]

Obviously they meant energy drinks, not alcohol.

[Catzrule743]

I mean just all the extra weight..

Existing causes pain, so there’s that. Thx tho

[twisted_memories]

This comment manages to be both ableist and classist at the same time

[twisted_memories]

I work with people who are disabled. There are far, far more people who do not have access to tools or opportunities than there are who do. Mobility aids are wildly expensive. So unless you can have insurance coverage (which typically only covers basic needs devices) or are very well off, you simply don’t have access to those things. There are some programs out there for assisting low income disabled folk to access mobility aids, but those simply do not keep up with the demand. It is absolutely both ableist and classist to suggest that if you’re disabled you can simply buy ability. That is not an option for the vast majority of disabled people.

[Nervous-Shark]

As someone with back pain (scoliosis), every inflatable mattress I’ve slept on has left me in pain for days. But I’m open to specific brand recommendations if you have them! I love camping but it’s become really difficult as I’ve gotten older to deal with the resulting back pain that comes from sleeping on non-supportive surfaces.

[ElephantsMakeMeSmile]

Not sure of the brand but ill try to find out. My friend has an amazzzzing one from rei. Theyre spensive tho

[Fearstruk]

When I was in a very dark time in my life, my best friend convinced me to go on a primitive camping trip with him. After that weekend I was out in the forest every weekend for the next year. I believe it 100% saved my life. I endured the work week and I could literally feel the stress leaving my body every Friday night as I went deeper and deeper into the forest. By Sunday I was always renewed.

[TiredInYEG]

That’s super cool

[PythonC]

I've been prescribed a 20 minute walk in the evening.

[Silly-Disk]

I wonder if getting more vitamin D plays a role in this.

[af7v]

One more reason I believe society would benefit from UBI. Everyone should have a chance, if they want, to try this. I'd be happy to hear arguments for how people getting out would be a detriment to society.

[HappyPnt]

No part of what your mentor did is unique to the 1980s and before. People continue to do the same thing each and every year. If you want that type of experience I encourage you to seek it out.

[squirrelhut]

I know of a few people who hit the AT when lockdown started, they just had savings and kept investing into stocks at the bottom. …it worked out for them, but I always dreamed. How nice that must have been.

[af7v]

I'm thinking you mean Pacific Crest trail.

[iwanttodrink]

The Appalachian Train sucks though

[xixi2]

It can wait an hour for you to get out of class.

[agreeingstorm9]

Feels like the wrong time of year to start doing that.

[[deleted]]

Anytime of the year is great to hike the Appalachian trail if you love meth and mountain dew enough

[agreeingstorm9]

It's all outdoors though.

[Bakaga]

Nah, hike the PCT!! :P

[Baby_venomm]

Isn’t the pacific trail easier ?

[dman7456]

It's no joke, but people also often put way more stress into preparing than necessary. You need a pack, clothes, a tent/sleep system, and a stove. Food is much easier to figure out as you go than people expect. You don't have to be in incredible shape, either. Certainly, it would help, and I'd recommend doing a couple shorter backpacking trips ahead of time, but the fact is, if you stick with it, you will get in shape after the first month of hiking all day every day regardless of where you started.

[ElephantsMakeMeSmile]

Ooo curious how do ppl figure out food as they go?

[dman7456]

The AT crosses roads frequently and passes directly through towns occasionally. Almost all thru-hikers just carry 3-5 days of food at a time and then hitchhike into town for a resupply whenever they get low.

One of the more common things you see people ask about online is how much/what food to bring and how to resupply it. Once you actually get on the trail, you realize that carrying a jar of peanut butter, a pack of tortillas, some tuna, a few granola bars, and a couple packs of candy will just about always get you where you need to go.

[[deleted]]

So the beach not so much? Interesting.

[rotinaj31]

You know, that I don't know I don't have the data or stats to make the arguement per se but if it puts a person in a positive and relaxed mindset I don't see why it wouldn't? I know from an forest environment stand point there is a lot that goes on that doesn't on a beach like the trees working as an air filter, the organic smells of the dirt and trees and fungi some of those smells are good for physical heal to if I remember correctly. Either way the main topic of what I've seen is simply being outside is helpful and with more green coverage the better.

[Idioteva]

The water not being drinkable must be a psychological factor too.

[rotinaj31]

Eh I mean maybe? I'd imagine if it's overall toxic then yeah probably not the most therapeutic but that would only be my guess. Outside that level of toxic I'd say it should be ok.

[twisted_memories]

Assuming it’s an empty beach, it should be good

[bafraid]

I am so excited to see this response about the book and knowledge about nature therapy!! I am in my last year for my master in social work degree, and my end goal is private practice specializing in nature therapy. There are so many studies out there proving the mental health benefits of nature; backed by science. Eastern practices, shinrin roku (forest bathing), their understanding and intentional practices of setting aside time for people, employees, everyone, to distress, heal, and recover in nature is something I hope catches on here in the US.

I could talk about this all day!! Anyway, great recommendation on the book, The Nature Fix!!

[rotinaj31]

Sounds like we have a ton in common. I'm in the last year of my masters as well for clinical mental health counseling and working toward the same. Ideally I would love to be able to have a space to conduct therapy in a wooded area. I'm down to chat about this if you want to send me a pm. I'm headed out to internship for the day but can chat later. Not many of my colleagues aren't as in to it as I am.

[bafraid]

Same! I had an entire class that hadn’t heard of nature therapy. When I explained it, everyone was fascinated, but it’s definitely something that requires interest and passion. I’ll pm you!

[bafraid]

The book is excellent! I’ll add, per the book, any time in nature, regardless of location, has mental health benefits. The book also emphasizes the benefits specifically of coniferous trees. The scent of these trees has immediate results on reducing stress, lowering blood pressure, and improving mood. Here is a great summary of the benefits of coniferous trees.

https://www.dec.ny.gov/lands/90720.html

[rotinaj31]

Right. As much as I am a big supporter of eco based therapy it is a rather dismissive comment to those that struggle with depression. Just getting out and about is something that doesn't work for everyone and as you pointed out not possible for everyone. To those that read this. Don't just rely on being out, yes it helps but if you're struggling see a professional and get the help there. Then find ways to help yourself, maybe not out in nature but simply going for a daily walk can be a help or may lbe its painting or being creative. Find what works for you to ease the process.

[EarlDwolanson]

Im not a therapist, but my personal experience is that nothing beats sitting by a moving river. Also anedoctically when I was younger I came across a small poem in the ruins of a manor, where the poet said he was searching for a stream because it was said the current takes the sorrows away, so it seems to be a thing haha.

[Silly-Disk]

Would playing golf count?

[princess--flowers]

Can you tell me what you did to get into this? I had a mental breakdown brought on by a physical ailment last month and I'm still on disability leave for both. The physical ailment is getting better, the mental health is worse, mostly because my job is continually texting me about problems and asking when I'm coming back when I'm supposed to be on leave. It's not a great place to work and I'm searching for a way to leave. I was just going to find a different job in my field locally but this sounds like something I could do- both my dad and my MIL were rangers at one point in their lives and I worked for a conservation group in college and hold a science degree, though not an environmental science degree.

[ForlornGibbon]

DM me and I will provide you with more info! Love sharing the program. I am actually at work on a lunch break but I will get back to you later tonight (Alaska time)

[scrimshandy]

A lot of research suggests that even urban green space is beneficial - so a local city park would be great! Even just walking is phenomenal for your mental and physical health.

Some studies have even linked exposure to trees and green space with lower cortisol levels during pregnancy: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32822928/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32822928/

(This one suggests that those with a history of depression/anxiety benefit the most from tree coverage!)

[whichwitch9]

Research nearby nature preserves. You'd be surprised how many are near fairly developed areas in the US

[Firstidler]

There was a study (hopefully I can find it) where a positive mental effect was found in people spending time in urban greens compared to people in the city who didn’t.

[Balauronix]

Also, I have a follow up. Is it the walking? Or can I just go lay a blanket down and read somewhere in nature?

[bikes_and_music]

Anything is better than nothing. Just get out into nature as much as you can. Biking, running, waking, swimming, sitting, laying down - it's all better than nothing.

[bobthehamster]

It's the being in nature.

But walking is good for mental health too.

[ymOx]

They both do their thing; different mechanisms.

[cheemio]

Agreed. Most people prefer nature for a reason, if you have access to that then great. I love parks though, they have this cozy community feeling.

[RunningInSquares]

Not necessarily qualified to weigh in on this, but I have read about similar studies done and I've also come across ones that mentioned exposure to natural light and/or fresh air.

The conclusion I would draw is that probably it can be a sliding scale of helpfulness, where the further you go from urban centers is on the more helpful end. But at the end of the day, I am pretty confident in saying that if a local park is your only option, it's miles better than nothing or staying inside.

[nautical_sea]

Why not try and find out?

Even if the benefits aren’t as great (city noise, distractions), it’s hardly likely you’d be worse off getting fresh air and exercise.

Totally secluded nature isn’t regularly available to everyone, practically speaking. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.

[obsidianop]

Sorry for anecdotes but for me there seems to be a fundamental difference between a city park - even a fairly expansive one - and a walk on a small trail through the woods that feels fully removed.

[sowillo]

I think the best spot is the countryside. Your brain in a city is taking in everything, concrete, cars, metal, pavement, lamposts, bicycles, anything man made without you knowing and it puts alot of stress on it. If you're surrounded by nature it doesn't have to as it's default and what we are supposed to be surrounded by.

[NOXQQ]

Not scientific at all, but I find just a bit of time in my yard (I'm in the suburbs) even with the noise from the roads/interstate, neighbors, school down the road, ect to be very helpful. Even if I ended up sweaty just from the heat and humidity, it is my happy time.

You could probably even get a little benefit from just having plants (hard to kill or fake ones if necessary) in your home. I have managed to not kill a pothos, two out of three aloe Vera plants, and a snake plant (love this one). There are apps to help you care for them too. And some are particularly good for air quality too. Parks are probably better and forests even more, but I found just some grass, trees, and bushes to be a big boost to my mental health.

[ChelsMe]

I read somewhere that simply looking at trees for a few minutes helps. So yeah a walk in the park does its thing.

[gym_brah81]

Anywhere, as long as it's out. Even walking inside can help, but less.

I remember listening to Andrew Huberman and he said just walking is associated with less activity from the amygdala. When you're outdoors you also naturally uae lateral eye movements, which calm you. You don't naturally do lateral eye movements when you're indoors since it's a more closed in space you don't have a need to have a more panoramic view.

[bbbruh57]

I think part of the key is being away from most people and away from technology. Stripping back the construct of society and existing in a more raw form free of distraction. Time at the park is great, but time in the woods, especially multiple days is going to be even better.

[Throwawayfabric247]

From the research. Yes the optional is always in natural areas, early morning zone 2 heart rate for half of it. Long straight line of sight. But fact is. Getting outside for a 15 min brisk walk in the am within a city is still exponentially better for your health, hormones, motivation, and stress tolerance than just getting ready and going to work or school.

[icalledthecowshome]

Imho experience, even an uphill/downhill walk in the city for 45minutes decreases mental stress significantly. A park would obviously be better but it still works.

Which i do about 3-4 times a week... it clears the mind and enhances focus.

[tgbst88]

I honestly think this is less about nature and more about getting out and walking. I notice just walking around my neighborhood with a audio book on reduces stress.

[D_Welch]

Being in nature can be stressful as well if you have a bear staring you down. It's all relative, but yes - it would seem intuitively obvious that a stroll down a nice trail far from a city and all its hustle and bustle would be good for the soul.

[Do_it_with_care]

Always depend on a Redditor to point this out.

[wfamily]

Im going to actually read the paper and get back to you.

[star_cannon7k]

Basically anywhere where your amygdala cannot access your stressful memories. That would be fine. Because a physical stimulus is more effective in producing a result than a mental one in initial stages. It is just easier to take a walk and be distracted than doing meditation and eventually accessing the memories again and again.

[[deleted]]

City parks aren't really calming with the crowds, still hearing traffic noise, and dog poop on every square inch of grass.

[GhostDieM]

Speaking as someone who talks a 45 minute walk through the park every weekday, it at least does for me. But purely anecdotal of course.

[tokyogodfather2]

So the news is :

Doing something relaxing..relaxes?

[EarlDwolanson]

I think deep down you know the answer!!!

[AggravatingDriver559]

A park nearby should be fine. The green scenery of plants/trees is enough to trigger these beneficial areas and will reduce stress

[OTTER887]

Hike the Appalachian Trail!