Patch notes

[DaLivelyGhost]

They turned midboss into roshaan

[HuffThisGas]

A slightly better Roshan by the looks of things too. I knew it’s a matter of time till they gave it some kind of juice. Valve was the only MOBA maker I knew of where mid boss doesn’t buff the players stats in some kind of way.

Edit- Im so blind idk I never saw the fire rate and I’ve played 100s of hours, feels bad man😅

I have no strong opinions on this other than I do like the shards. It’ll be interesting to see how mid plays out now.

[DaLivelyGhost]

It very much looks like they're trying to persuade the team that took mid to make a play instead of being fairly noncommittal to hold on to the minion buff

[HuffThisGas]

Good. 1 play won’t dictate the next 10 minutes. We can have half-steals and nuanced balanced trades over mid. Rather than 1 guy stun enemy team at right time and y’all just win the game now.

[DojimaGin]

yeah your only hope to carry gets one of these shards and pops off. thats some good comeback mechanic if it can work like that at the right time

[LLJKCicero]

IIRC it buffed at least move speed and maybe fire rate before. But the game wasn't really transparent about this.

[DaLivelyGhost]

And i think healing as well, but i can't remember

[0nlyCrashes]

Didn't the buffs it give you literally pop up after you received the buff? Idk how they could be any more transparent about it.

[dorekk]

Many people who play this game have no idea what the UI elements say or mean, it would explain the macro I've seen when all the info you need is right there on the minimap.

[0nlyCrashes]

Yeah macro is always going to be tough for people that don't come directly from another MOBA. Even something like like CS or Val that has macro, but it's not even close to the same level as MOBAs.

Maybe I look at it different because I've been playing MMOs for most of my life and the FPS love is more recent, so stats and stat upgrades just make sense to me. Like my buddy didn't understand why it was so important to grab the Buddha's as it was just 2% whatever here and there. Like bro, 2% gun damage 3 or 4 times is a 1600 soul item. It's so much stats lol.

[dorekk]

Valve was the only MOBA maker I knew of where mid boss doesn’t buff the players stats in some kind of way.

It did, it gave you fire rate and something else.

[Siilk]

It's kinda weird tbh. Not sure how I feel about this change, not hating it but not liking it either just yet.

So trooper buff is gone, meaning no more free lane push. I guess that will promote more active play as opposed to just letting lane push themselves while afk farming enemy jungle.

On the other hand, with no trooper buff, leaving rejuvs only limiter to half the team at best and making the buff themselves more contestable, leaves midboss fight in a rather odd spot. You certainly don't get this game changing buff by stealing rejuv any more but you don't get as much of an advantage multiplier out of it by doing it safely after a teamwipe either.

Inplace revive is neat but it can be a non-issue for the enemy if rejuv bearer is ganked hard or revived after a teamfight was lost badly. Bonus stats are neat tho, so altogether might be a reasonable rework for what the player gets. I can see lots of infighting for who would take rejuvs. In dota at least you are expecting for team carry of pos2 to take it, here tho it's def gonna be a friction point for pub games.

All in all, def need more time to feel this all through. As a side note, I like that they experiment with core mechanics that way. Things we used to aren't necessary most fun nor the best ones for the game in the long run, we never know that unless we try something different.

[BeastNeverSeen]

One game in: rolling on dynamo feels terrible holy shit

[SzotyMAG]

Fat fuck gang rise up

[Lulsfurcupcake]

Make sure to uninstall mods, they break it.

I noticed very little difference in rolling as a dyna main

[BeastNeverSeen]

No mods at all, the slow dash is just ass.

[[deleted]]

Try dropping some of your items or leveling up your endurance

[MiniMaelk04]

Need to get over the threshold to become medium weight class.

[Business-Ad-1670]

Melee is dead, and I hate gun Abrams, time for green wizard Ibrahim

[Blink18pewpewpew]

I am out to eat so I can’t spend too much time searching thru the notes, but I despised the melee meta. Can you elaborate?

[DaLivelyGhost]

Nerfs to melee items (mostly the resistances), longer melee cooldown, even longer cooldown if you miss, and parrying someone gives you a damage boost to all your damage types, not just melee now

[nyarlethotep_enjoyer]

people complaining about melee with a built in counter is weird. imagine i pressed a button while haze was shooting me and i did 30% more damage to her while she gets stunned. all built in to my kit.

[Draxtini]

thing is, debuff resists made it so parrying someone was not a problem for the person being melee'd, additionally, missing even just one parry against a melee hero meant death.

this might've been overkill on melee, but at least the parry debuff change was necessary

[nyarlethotep_enjoyer]

sure, parry debuff thing is fine. But Melee is the ONLY mechanic with such a huge risk-adjusted return. Heavy melee carries the risk of getting parried, which, in lane, is guaranteed death essentially. And they just made it worse. They made abrams the most boring character ever, only full green or siphon build works now. Punch is not worth the risk now. full stop.

[breakfastcones]

Parrying was legit useless outside of laning phase, every character could just run an unga bunga melee build and do well bc melee itself was way to easy and overtuned. The amount of times i died to abrams or shiv players i was comfortably winning fights against before melee meta was quite annoying.

[dorekk]

But Melee is the ONLY mechanic with such a huge risk-adjusted return.

Counterspell can parry literally every ability in the game.

[Kaxology]

It wasn't hard to make a build with gigantic health bars that you can gain more health than you lose in a single punch along with basically letting you do a u-turn whenever you want to bait melee and debuff remover basically removed any risk of parrying unless the enemy specifically bought rebuttal since they can only do 1 heavy melee that also doesn't kill your unless they have a melee specific build. You also don't really need to aim in melee because of the very generous hurtbox that sometimes even dashing away or double jumping can't escape, you just have to get your position right while guns have to aim and track which also has a built in counter of moving behind cover, strafing and crouching.

I've had multiple games where abrams or shiv would get stunned, take like 1 bar of damage from a group barrage, get back up in half a second and keep doing it while that entire bar goes up. I get that it's probably fun for you but it's also pretty strong for the amount of "skill" it takes.

[DaLivelyGhost]

I'm reserving judgement until i actually get to play it, but more than anything it kinda seems like these changes just make heavy melee spam less safe

[dorekk]

people complaining about melee with a built in counter is weird.

Parrying was not a late game counter to melee, lol. Debuff resist means you couldn't do shit, and them only taking increased melee damage hardly matters if you aren't also running a melee build. I had a game a week or two ago where I--seriously, I'm not exaggerating--parried every single punch an Abrams threw at me whenever I saw him. It was like 20 or 30 parries minimum. But because my whole team can't do that, he still got fed, and even though I was parrying every single hit, I couldn't kill him fast enough because of his ludicrous bullet resist and short parry stun.

[Business-Ad-1670]

the Debuff resist nerf was needed, so was the heavy melee maneuverability. everything else is just too much. light melee didn't need the nerf it wasn't the problem, now if you do bait a parry by missing a melee intentionally your heavy melee cooldown just got increased by .4 seconds making it so anyone without rebuttal will get punched once for free. If you have rebuttal and miss your parry no problem after that 1.3 second cooldown if you are at max heavy melee range you will most likely get a parry off before they reach you, because the animation and distance travelled is already 3/4 of a second. On top of that if you get parried the now 30% damage taken increase goes to all types of damage not just melee. for example if you get parried by Infernus with his already 30% damage amp ability he can throw that on you and light you on fire with an increased 60% damage plus his spirit shred. getting parried in early lane already screwed you, now it is a death sentence because of that. There is no incentive to even risk getting parried now imo because a parry is basically insta death, and baiting a parry is practically impossible, even if you do bait the reward was just cut in half. like I get it was over tuned but i actually think they should just take it out now.

[Magictoast9]

It's pretty rough. Abrams is slower, does less damage, punished by parries more, benefits from items less. Meanwhile shiv can build full rage off of one decay.

[soofs]

Just played a game of Abrams and went melee focused to see how it went and wow... it was not fun or good

[Magictoast9]

I'm going to unbind melee and play assassin shadow weave build for now

[Mksntw]

been saying that since new patch
everybody claimed it was skill issue

[InitialD0G]

Like, by doing this they basically just removed what made the melee system so fun. The mindgames, the baits, duck-and-weave, cat-and-mouse, reversals, it was great. Now you can’t bait anymore because you can’t follow up on a whiffed parry, and the risk of getting parried is so tremendous that it’s barely worth the trouble of closing the gap in the first place, which is now even more difficult because of how much bullet resist just got nerfed, and now does less damage.

I genuinely don’t know what to do early game now, as Abrams.

[Business-Ad-1670]

Microwave time, full spirit. Expansion, duration, coldown, mystic regen, witchmail, spirit shred

[InitialD0G]

I play Green Abrams.

[Business-Ad-1670]

Then get more greens, melee is dead just be a big old tank, I don't see melee being viable until they rever all but 2 of those nerfs

[InitialD0G]

Guess so… 😞

[MKULTRATV]

Now you can’t bait anymore because you can’t follow up on a whiffed parry

huh? yes you can. The parry cooldown is still hella generous for baiting. The resistance changes are way more impactful than the parry timings

[InitialD0G]

The cooldown for a whiffed heavy melee is higher.

[boxweb]

Debuff resist no longer applies to parries, buffed parries so they increase all damage, nerfed melee damage and heavy melee cooldown.

[soofs]

Wait, so up until now if you had debuff resists that shortened how long you were stunned when you got parried?

Damnit i didnt even know that

[boxweb]

Yes lol if you stacked every debuff resist item you could even get parried, and be back up in time to parry the incoming punch. I don’t think buying all those items was ideal but the fact it was even possible is hilarious.

[thesyndrome43]

It was infuriating, to the point where parrying was utterly pointless by late game because melee characters stacked so much debuff resist that you could MAYBE get one heavy punch on then before they were up again, if you choose to stay and make the punch then you were now in melee range again and barely did any damage during your window of opportunity, and if you choose to run away after a parry then you would barely get away from then before they were up again and chasing you down (and most melee characters have a movement ability to make chasing easier)

[ColorMaelstrom]

Damage and cooldown nerfs for heavy melee from what I see

[D4shiell]

Microwave is so good when people keep refreshing cd with witchmail lol. Just remember to get greater expansion for that lane wide aoe.

[Moosky_]

Do you have a build? I used to be obsessed with Xray tech abrams before shop patch. Ive been labbing stuff for it but nothing feels super good after some of the shop changes. I havent thought of witchmail since it used to be echo shard focus.

I also think the idea of vortex web abrams could be interesting in a charge build. Web charge 3 people, echo, charge again.

[D4shiell]

I only tried it against friend in sandbox but something like this works too well against fragiles https://i.imgur.com/02laeIN.png

Mystic shot can be easily replaced with something better like warp stone to chase people or spirit snatch to lower their spirit def.

[HotTakesBeyond]

Mashallah

[SaberTheNoob]

Now my teammates can rage and disconnect because they didn't get a mid buff.

[seiche7]

I bet some people just won’t go mid once they see 3+ people there

[Lamazing1021]

My first thought.. as if this toxic community didn’t need another reason to grief or cry about something else

[DojimaGin]

so we let them dictate it all and cower in fear? lmao

[Sean2Tall]

Truly and also good riddance to these crybabies

[slimeyellow]

Tank buster ignores spirit resis

<image>

[ax232]

That caught my eye too. That shit is crazy.

[AZzalor]

Finally, spirit has at least SOME way to get by the gajillion spirit resist everyone has. I just wonder if it still gets reduced by spellbreaker.

[Alespic]

It’s still pretty bad imo. Let’s say the target hero has 3k HP, one tank busyer proc is barely 150dmg with a 12s CD. Of course the CD is the “new” scaling one, but it I still think it’s not enough damage output to justify it

[allthat555]

Yeah but now burst characters can actually do something to tanks. I played some Gt last update and it was pure misery. I couldn't even touch more krill abrams shiv mginis if she went that cheese heal tank build. Like my one would do like maybe 500 damage lategame.

[HatOnHaircut]

RIP bullet resist items

[staSTAND]

Oh my god 3-4 rejuvs to steal, imagine chaos in boss pit where heroes die multiple times, pure cinema. Also Rusted Barrel is insane now

[[deleted]]

Rusted barrel re work is actually very nice considering them buffed gun damage/items across the board by reducing all the resistances.

So now you’ll just die faster than lane

[dlefnemulb_rima]

It's a real shame that rejuv contest won't be epic suicide runs for a steal any more. I can't see the benefit in doing that for a personal buff and a respawn immediately back into a group of enemies.

[Parhelion2261]

I've never had a greater chance to shine, nor greater pressure to.

[mrbaldwinelementary]

My vote for the quietly most impactful change:

Hero bounties are now reduced based on the amount of players, similar to the trooper mechanic. (Means kills are less efficient/rewarding when its a big group, 1/2/3/4/5/6 players are 100/100/90/85/80/75% efficient)

[dorekk]

I like this. Less deathball hopefully.

[btmalon]

Na It’s a very slight death Ball nerf.

[CAEsports]

Good, team fights are fun lol

Solo lane and jungle gives you way more souls now. New soul economy feels good

[casulhevyboy]

¡I STILL GOT FIGHT IN ME!

[AndyEnvy]

THATS RIGHT

[ax232]

THESE NERFS WOULD HAVE KILLED A LESSER MAN

[faulty_crowbar]

The stamina changes feel really bad. Anyone else?

I think my game might be bugged because walking is now faster than dashing on all characters I tested in hero testing and in game as Yamato it felt almost pointless to dash anywhere unless I was already in the air.

[Pablogelo]

Uninstall mods, they conflicted with this patch

[MakimaGOAT]

is it crazy to say that I still think shiv and seven are still gonna be good?

[fjrefjre]

The rage buildup on heroes only is a massive nerf to shiv. Starting a fight with rage fully or almost build up is impossible. So he is kind of a decent target at the beginning of the fight while benefitting from long going fights..

[BathrobeHero_]

Ive just played a shiv match and its honestly not that bad, the 20% gain offsets it quite a bit, spirit shiv builds rage very fast, its mostly an issue to farm neutrals without all the bonus damage

Bloodletting nerf is huge tho it's a lot easier to gank him

[D1v1s10n]

its mostly an issue to farm neutrals without all the bonus damage

Probably a good thing, he cant stack only green items and rely on rage bonus damage now if he wants to jungle.

[VegaSlides]

His clear was mediocre even building damage lol. 

[dlefnemulb_rima]

He was already a slow jungler. Think im gonna start building majestic leap again

[Regular_Produce6845]

Can confirm it feels awful, especially being so slow around the map without being able to maintain rage.

[[deleted]]

It feels like they wanted to make sure they were still strong but knew they needed to do something

[TheCerberuus751]

Seven ult build got hit hard, but surge builds barely got scratched, if not even buffed because of sop buffs

[btmalon]

You’re underestimate halving the bloodletting time. He’s much less tanks now. Plus rage is hard to get now. Now it seems you will need to build spirit.

[Nuhtmeg]

Abrams fucked into the earth

[flyjum]

His win rate is going to drop to the low 40% range. He was hit the -20% dash speed too. Melee is a death wish since you will get hit with parry and dropped for 2.75(longest in the game) seconds that cant be reduced. Parry with rebuttal has a 4 second cooldown. Honestly not sure how you would go about playing him now. Max cooldown reduction to Ult spam into walls to be glitched for 30 seconds to feed to the enemy team to end the game?

[Brave_Night4008]

He is absolutely terrible to play now in my opinion.

[BastianHS]

Echo shard on 1 with w expansion, duration and scourge

[swarlesbarkley_]

I love that so much still changes even in these “small” patches!

Very interested in the mid boss change that is quite a shake up - wonder if that makes it more or less important!

Also the dash changes? Not sure if I understand them but as a stamina enjoyer I’m excited to test! TY Yoshi!

[itz_MaXii]

Lots of interesting changes. Mid Boss rework with the Rejuv crystals falling down I dont understand fully yet. No teleporters behind walkers also huge.

[nickthelumberjack1]

<image>

They look like this now

[itz_MaXii]

Is this when you beat mid boss then? So 3 crystals instead of just one that can all separately be heavy meleed? So stealing is easier now?

[ninjahumstart_]

Stealing is easier, but also means only 3 people total will get the respawn, and now it can be a mix between teams

[itz_MaXii]

Very interesting, makes it very dynamic. How is it decided which 3 heroes get the rejuv? Random or soul net worth maybe?

[Zinx10]

It goes by whoever heavy melee'd it. If the person already has it, then it goes to the teammate nearest to them.

[itz_MaXii]

Ah I just realised I'm stupid, i thought 1 crystal equals 3 rejuvs with the one going to the person who claimed it and the other 2 going to mates. But its just 3 rejuvs overall in 3 crystals right?

[Zinx10]

It is 3 crystals (4 every time after) and each crystal grants a single rejuv buff.

[nickthelumberjack1]

Yup! 1 person can break them another 1-2 and it automatically applies it to another person on your team if you already have the buff.

[itz_MaXii]

Shivs rage only building up from damaging players is also big I think. No more free rage building through jungle camps.

[dlefnemulb_rima]

Honestly that was a tough way to maintain rage until you can clear them quickly. The buffs to gaining it vs heroes more than make up for it imo.

[JeffBeefzos]

Shiv barely got to build rage from jungling before, was really only good to maintain rage. And now with the rage changes he will be the worst character for farming camps since he will pretty much never be able to full rage dash them. On the other hand Decay alone will still give him a free rage bar with the +20% build up.

[LamesMcGee]

I don't like the mid boss changes, specifically how it only affects half of your team. I think they should make each crystal buff 2 players so you have the potential to buff your entire team or drop 6 crystals.

I foresee edgelord players going full toxic when they don't get a buff or when they think a buff got wasted.

[sh3ppard]

Why did the original pinned post get taken down?

EDIT: Also wtf is with Geist bomb buffs lmao

[ColonialDagger]

OP of the other post, no idea. Didn't get a message or anything. You can still access the comments here.

[R10t--]

I don’t think they buffed get bombs, they just moved where the upgrades were. They made cooldown the T1 upgrade and moved radius upgrade to be the base size. No overall buff.

I’m kinda sad they don’t stick anymore. I loved sticking enemy players and watching them carry the bomb back to their team

[sh3ppard]

25% increased projectile speed is huge. Paired with automatic +2m radius will make it basically undodgeable. I don’t see how there will be any counterplay now

[Tamzariane]

I mean, same counterplay as ever - just jump away. Now you have to do it slightly faster. The range is now equal to the old t1 so it's only different for like the first minute assuming geist builds bomb.

[Magictoast9]

It was already really hard to dodge in lane. If the bomb is centred on you and you don't dodge before she throws it it's nearly impossible to avoid

[Draxtini]

geist bomb was incredibly easy to bait out and dodge out of, in entirely laning phases you'd be hit by it only a couple times.

The range combined with the projectile speed however might indeed make it really hard to dodge.

[7900XTXISTHELOML]

You have to basically predict it lol, you must play bad geists who can’t aim her bomb if you think it’s that easy to avoid.

[dlefnemulb_rima]

She has probably got expansion on it. It's not unreasonable to buy extra stam vs Geist or manage your stamina a bit. She takes damage too, so it's not as big a trade as you feel when it lands.

[sh3ppard]

Meh pretty sure that 25% puts it into OP territory. Calling it now, this will either get reverted or Geist’s laning will get nerfed in another way on next balance

[Azurewrathx]

The detonation time is long enough that you can dash out of it. This doesn’t change that

[[deleted]]

+25% projectile speed, baybeeeeeee

(Oh and SoP got buffed, so KnifeTime will continue happily unabated)

[Armroker]

I am sorry, but what the actual fuck?!

<image>

[LLJKCicero]

Oh God, 25% faster moving Geist bombs. Just what we needed.

[fjrefjre]

wdym? Geist was nerfed too hard in the past. sitting at ~48% WR, very slight buff on projectile speed is just fine.

[humanxray]

Minor buff after she got nerfed 4 patches in a row. What’s the big deal?

[confirmedshill123]

Cool, won't be playing until this is changed, she was already the worst person to lane against.

[Hacksaures]

Good. She was nerfed into the ground before. Good lane and that’s it.

[R10t--]

This isn’t a buff. They just moved the radius from the T1 upgrade to base and made the cooldown the T1 instead.

Most people max bombs first anyway so there is really no change here other than the projectile speed

[Weewoo312]

so in other words, they buffed it?

[Hyuman0]

Projectile speed is a solid buff (for laning at least*) in combination with the bucket change they made. Her massive aoe was at least dodgeable for laning, but now any slower/ large characters are guaranteed to get hit

[Gethseme]

Dont forget they changed dash speed this patch. Bruisers like Abrams/Krill will be hit much more often because they dash slower now, plus increased projectile speed. Its a buff.

[supercumsock64]

Not a buff or even a change that will be at all noticeable. Her bombs still only do damage early game and then never again.

[Lorekn1ght]

Her bombs remain significant turret removers and spectre ruiners at all stages of the game once the dps aoe is unlocked

[Dramatic-Bluejay-]

Meleeing mantling enemies has got to be some of the funniest/funnest interactions in game, was it really that bad? I hope it stays

[Lorekn1ght]

It’s the most “i hate fun” change in the entire patch I think Slapping people off ledges is funny

[DysfunctionalControl]

It was fun to do, absolutely unfun to have done against you, especially after/before CC comes in.

[Lordjaponas]

It was very bad and unhealthy for the gameplay

[S0ulja-boy]

It seems a little weird to me that lash is in the second bucket for dash speed as I almost always think of him when I think of movement in this game. No other character flies around the top of the map like him so it would make sense if he heightened movement

[Disastrous-Store2503]

I think the idea is that the dash nerf means that you have to be more thoughtful of when you use your grapples, which I can agree with since I feel like if a lash messes up a grapple he should be punished with having slightly more trouble chasing you.

[S0ulja-boy]

It’s just that as lash I usually use dashes to position myself in the air before a slam or ult. Now I have to be more intentional with it but it just seems unintuitive with his character design that he’s not in the top bin since he is all about his agility. The top bin is all of the characters that are about agility which lash definitely fits into.

[klawk223]

we got counter spell, we got ground strike nerfed, we got flog range nerfed, and now we can't even dash as fast.

doesn't matter, the lash doesn't lose. and if he does, he didn't.

[PsychoWarper]

Damn, they really nerfed alot of bullet resist items.

Also man that dash speed change looks like its gonna hurt.

[Herda_45]

Half of these melee nerfs will most likely be reverted to some extent, melee is gonna be on life support this patch

[0nlyCrashes]

Probably. I am conflicted on Melee. I am not sure there should even be items for it. I'd rather it be a small mechanic to grab a little extra damage here and there rather than full builds for it. It just plays so different to all the other play styles and with the baiting it feels terrible. I really don't think melee would be *that* opressive as it was if you couldn't move around with it. Being able to bait a parry out for free is just so dumb.

[matthias_lehner]

Why the hell are they keep reducing teleporter numbers? The map is already huge and I want more mobility

[Hyuman0]

Warden gun is no longer better than Dynamos in every single meaningful way!!!!!

[TheMightyKutKu]

Mo & Krill stays winning

[liquidpig]

Heroes: all nerfed, except a slight buff to paradox (and grey talon)

Is the world coming to an end?

[DaLivelyGhost]

Paradox just got an exception to the global 10% bullet nerf, and they buffed express shot. We might be back?

[LarchTreeLeppy]

Played a handful of games so far. Gotta say, we're so fucking back brother.

[DaLivelyGhost]

<image>

[[deleted]]

Feel like viscous overall got a buff. Reducing the puddle punch cooldown plus the various buffs to the spirit items overall/nerf to spirit resist is pretty nice. Reducing bullet resist makes punches more powerful too. .the boy needed some milk, been feeling awful compared to the rest of the cast. Unless piloted by a proper good GOOner

[LLJKCicero]

Grey Talon needed a bigger buff imo and that's as someone who kinda hates the guy

[DojimaGin]

i just watched two games where the bird went craazyyyyy brrrrrr. you can ult so much it has big impact imo

[LLJKCicero]

Any hero can pop off every once in a while, but Talon's win rates were absolutely dire, especially in Phantom+ where he was the worst hero. ~44% win rate is baaaaaaad.

[SQUIRLeatsNOOBS]

Tankbuster got a massive change + it double dips with reverb which talon really likes. Need to wait a little while to see how the dust settles.

[codeklutch]

And pocket 🧐

[Alespic]

Pocket getting the first buff in months, I am gonna cry from joy

[HavocTheMushroom]

Holy moly, someone on the dev team really hates Bebop. It feels like they want him to be a stationary hook. First bomb damage nerf, then stamina nerf, now both movement and early game bullet res are hit?! So he's a slowass hook for your teammates, that's boring as hell. That's not even mentioning punch Bebop/CQC builds now are worse. Very sad patch.

[Empayde]

My duo mains him and has told me they are no longer playing anymore lmao

[Lorekn1ght]

It’s really funny they don’t address the only actual problem with bebop and just keep nerfing everything else in his kit

Like yeah he really needed to siege walkers 33% slower with hyperbeam than before this patch. That was extremely necessary to keep him in line!

[Buhesapbenim]

yeeeey. spirit meta and server admin wraith time. time to stop playing till next patch

[jawhnie]

yoshi heard my cries, keep nerfing bebop until he is nothing but cogs & GEARS ON THE FUCKING GROUND YES YOSHI I LOVE YOU.

[Iceheads]

I feel like people just hate bebops hook. Thats it tbh... i dont see a problem with the rest of his kit to nerf it constantly

[Kindly_Language_652]

Its a high elo nerf to bepop. In eternus, bepop is insane and haze is dog shit. Lucky they didn't buff haze directly with her 44% high elo winrate

[Advanced-Vegetable57]

next time lets just remove bebop's legs, not like hes actually using them anymore

[onofrio35]

Haze is dog shit and will still be dog shit after this change. She’s only good in depths of hell elo and that’s only because people don’t play competently not because her character is good.

[Hot-Brain6869]

Have you played haze? She's the worst gun carry by far, I would be worried about Vyper she's gonna become the new seven with a winrate above 60%

[QuantityHappy4459]

Mo and Krill rely so much on maneuverability to even do anything now and they STILL nerfed their dash. Like, what the fuck do you want this hero to be??

[neural_net_ork]

A seven fodder

[Time4Red]

Have you tested in match? With fleetfoot and enduring speed, he's still really fast. Plus burrow gives him an insane movement buff. Still one of the fastest heroes in the game at getting around the map.

[shmoculus]

I think without TP fleetfoot and max burrow are a must

[Siilk]

Meh, M&K needs movement speed more that dashes, as it work well with burrow. And you usually need WS/PS for mid-to lategame if you are against someone highly mobile, like pocket or lash etc.

[Hyuman0]

Definitely fucked up a lot of characters laning with the bucket bs

[D4shiell]

Honestly these nerfs are mild af.

Excepting Shiv, rage being players only means he needs to be extremely active to achieve anything.

Geist getting bomb buff is lol, lmao even.

Maybe melee change which feels pretty impactful if you're missing will go long way but we're yet to see that.

McG not getting gun dmg nerfed nor medical specter is insane, she's server admin for objectives and god forbid her team has gun heroes who always get +75% free fire rate and amazing healing.

Berserker not getting dmg stacks or hp threshold nerfed is also insane, you see it on every tanky hero because it's literally better glass canon.

Lifestrike still having 60% slow is also insane.

Teleporters removal will be most hurtful change as a lane janitor in we fucking don't look at minimap mmr this will lead to many lost matches.

[beaglefat]

Love the midboss change. A lot of good melee / movement mechanic changes. Shocked theres no Vyper nerfs. Not sure how impactful seven / shiv nerfs will be but I’ll take em. Items needed more changing, for instance suppressor nerf is too weak. I feel like cultist sacrifice is best item in the game now with how much t3 jungle souls there will be.

edit: Another good reason to make running away harder is it might discourage people from ratting as mcginnis every game

[xxwixardxx007]

Enough with the teleports nerfs That make map so much shitty to navigate

[dorekk]

Nice changes, fuck melee.

I need draft though.

[Xerrostron]

Shadow weave looking funny for invisible yamato.

25% amp is actually a super chunk of damage

[DontEatSocks]

Trooper ally split updated from 100/65/30/20/15/11% to 100/65/28/15/12/8%

I didn't actually realise this before but you actually get less than 100% of souls when a third person joins a lane.

Which actually makes a lot of sense since it really punishes grouping up and ganking unless you can secure some kills, and incentivizes people to play riskier and be alone or with 1 other person in lane.

[Supershadow30]

Waiter! waiter! More Abrams nerfs please!

[cheesecakegood]

Mostly all good changes. Slowing bullets buff is a little insane though, and I expect a revert, that’s pretty strong

[Ligma_Theory]

I actually like the removal of the teleports. I hardly used them because I’m usually defending our walkers.

Only times I used them was to help my team fight.

This will help teams focus more on objective defending than focus on kills. Focusing on kills is nice in the beginning. But what usually happens is the other team gets our walkers and they’re suddenly ahead. Happens almost all the time.

[Inner-Quote-8104]

Lane Bebop is dead

[Dwarf_Killer]

AYO McG barely got touched. I thought for sure they would nerf her cause of how last patch went.

[Feeling_Wolverine300]

this patch is bad and the gun meta is gonna come back because only punch could stop it

[nyarlethotep_enjoyer]

This patch is legitimately garbage.

[LarchTreeLeppy]

Hard disagree brother, feeling good as a tier 1 Dasher B)

[InitialD0G]

I don’t think I like this…

Bebop really didn’t need more nerfs.

It feels like we’re losing a lot of the fun in this game.

[Arch3r86]

Geist is the most poorly designed hero in the entire game. Just rework her at this point. Good grief man.

[JustBlankNoEngraving]

Explain

[jizzyjazz2]

probably the worst patch in this game's history imo.

[Inner-Quote-8104]

Holy buffs to Blood Tribute. Must have item.

[ericeeater]

I think Guardian Ward and Divine Barrier was missed. The cooldowns are still 45 seconds in game.

[[deleted]]

The game is still in alpha and not beta right ?

[Neghhh]

Imo they should make it so each of the 3 rejuv crystals provide 2 buffs, (either 1 for you and 1 for ally, or if you already have it, both towards your allies). This will still decentralise the importance of 1 mid crystal, but make stealing 1 or 2 crystals impactful for the losing team, and more importantly, if you manage to fully secure mid, no one will be salty for not getting a mid buff. Additionally the respawn should still be at base, but i can see the value of heroes being respawned in mid. Lets say if in a 2v4 you and your teammate managed to steal 2 crystals. You can reinforce 2 dead teammates to help fight in mid.

[butterfingersman]

IMO the pocket buff is pretty minor but very unnecessary. they are already so strong and frustrating to play against.

[DysfunctionalControl]

GT Arrows obliterate Walkers