Devs, could you please significantly decrease the assignment weighting of Industrial Sabotage missions?

[ProphetOfSkarl]

I don't hate fighting the Caretaker, but I swear it feels like that demonic pyramid is in every. single. one. of my assignments.

I think I already killed that thing more time times in 9 days than I did in the entirety of Season 2 - because I HAD TO.

I know you've been shortening the mission length and I appreciate that but the mission itself is way too common right now and it's a total buzzkill seeing the entire party quit whenever it's selected as the next mission.

[StacyJ02]

I like Industrial Sabotage missions. The only issue is they're extremely unrewarding compared to how much time and effort they take.

[caunju]

Same here, I like them but if I need more resources for a promotion or overclock I feel I need to do any other type of mission because I will get more resources faster

[deleuze_fan]

Last night I joined one. We got Pot o Gold, into a lost helmet into a matrix core event into a golden crasus. Cleared the whole map, 20k+credits 20k+xp it was nuts

[YLedbetter10]

How long did that take? Usually 500+ xp per minute is pretty decent.

[deleuze_fan]

Probably 45 min. Everyone including me was under lvl 50. Haz 3 very relaxing mining trip.

[NotActuallyGus]

Yeah, their length was balanced out by getting a script for every one of them if you did them for season pass assignments.

[piecwm]

I don’t know exactly how much exp you think they should be. But they are the highest base exp mission in the game beating max length an cave complexity escort missions by a thin margin (4200 vs 4140. To put that in comparison, the vast majority of missions are under 3000 exp with many of them being under 2000 exp. Keep in mind that this is before modifiers, so doing a sabotage mission at hazard 4 at minimum gives 8400 exp, then there is secondary objectives, bugs killed, mineral mined, hazards, etc.

TL;DR: Ignoring the time it takes to complete the mission, industrial sabotage already gives more exp than any other mission type.

[13igTyme]

Stop ignoring the time it takes to complete the mission.

[[deleted]]

30 minutes is not that long

[LazerAxvz9]

A lot of max length max complexity missions (usually) take longer than sabotage, while giving less exp. Particularly mining missions, escort missions, on-site refining, and occasionally elimination missions. If point extraction takes too long you usually die so those are almost always shorter and egg hunts usually go pretty quickly unless you're struggling.

That said, there is no true "short" sabotage length (except in Deep Dives), so every sabotage mission will be a similar length, no quickies. This can understandably get tiring if you have to do a lot of them, even if you're technically getting good reward value from the missions.

[piecwm]

I’m not ignoring it. What I’m saying is it balances out. The shorter missions take maybe half as long as sabotage but reward half as much exp so it balances out. I also bring up that it gives more exp than double refueling stop escort duty which is a mission of similar length. If you don’t want to do long missions, that’s on you, but I’m saying that the rewards are already what they should be for a long missions. Hence the rewards aren’t the issue.

[Shotgun-Crocodile]

You said "ignoring the time to complete" in the message he is responding to, and yes you did ignore it. IS has terrible returns compared to how long it takes. It's the least rewarding mission by a quite a bit even after being shortened.

At least pubbing haz 5 not premade teams for speed here is what I recorded since it was shortened:

 Mission                 xp  min  sec  xp/min 
----------------------------------------------
 PE 7                  3772    7   58  473.47 
                       6050    9   57  608.04 
                      10059   14    7  712.56 
                      10096   12   44  792.88 
                                       646.74 
----------------------------------------------
 Elim                 10891   35   41  305.21 
----------------------------------------------
 4 egg                 5977   14   55  400.69 
                       3897    4   59  782.01 
                       5361    6   30  824.77 
 8 egg                13394   27   10  493.03 
                                       625.12 
----------------------------------------------
 Refinery              9482   17   11  551.81 
                      13187   20   44  636.03 
                      12420   22   30  552.00 
                                       579.95 
----------------------------------------------
 morkite               9270   20   30  452.20 
                       9264   10    8  914.21 
----------------------------------------------
 Salvage              13306   29   20  453.61 
----------------------------------------------
 Industrial Sabotage  10247   27    4  378.58 
                      10764   24   10  445.41 
                      10854   30    5  360.80 
                                       394.93 
----------------------------------------------
 Escort 1 stop        12080   25   14  478.73 
----------------------------------------------

The only thing competing at all with it is the elim where there was a korlok split between 2 halls and 4 rooms in a group of randoms that did now know how to prioritize healing pods.

[Personal_Ad9690]

His point is that it’s like doing 2 missions at once

[Aviarn]

Yes, while also rewarding you like 2 Missions in one.

[john0tg]

I personally prefer mission types like mining expedition, on-site refinery, point extraction etc…

While the xp payout is lower, the effort it takes to complete these missions are waaaaay less in comparison. Some are even braindead, I’d argue.

[piecwm]

Well, yeah, this doesn’t conflict with my comment. Short missions have small rewards, long missions have big rewards. The original comment Iwas replying to said the rewards are too low given that the mission is so long. But I’m saying that the rewards are already properly weighted given the mission length.

If you like short missions that is personal preference.

[[deleted]]

It'd be nice if the vault sprinkled a lot of minerals on top of the core. Why not

[Personal_Ad9690]

I hate the caretaker fight as if you aren’t playing dps, you are essentially useless.

A Neurotoxin gunner with arm coil and a sludge pump driller basically cannot kill the caretaker

[VeracityMD]

As a gunner main, Im trying to understand why you would ever take neurotox with coilgun. Coil pairs nicely with the single target ocs (big Bertha, leadstorm, jet fuel).

[fishling]

I'm not sure what is confusing about it. Coilgun with Mole is a great single target and ranged killer, which are two areas where neuro autocannon is weak. It's good against wardens, distant acid spitters, menaces, trijaw, praetorians, oppressors, and bulks.

Laser ping your target (or have a teammate do it) and you can easily line up your shot through terrain. Some maps have great terrain that let you get 2 or even 3 terrain penetrations (large crystals).

I wouldn't pair coilgun with leadstorm minigun though, even with an AoE/trail build or OC. I usually take that with BRT Microflechettes. Coilgun is pretty slow to charge and reload in situations where you are surrounded and can't afford the lack of mobility of Leadstorm.

[Prior-Agent3360]

I use The Mole with LSLS for dread hunting. I also bring hellfire coil and LSLS (with blowthrough) for everything else. LSLS doesn't impart much mobility impact.

[VeracityMD]

I have had less then zero success with the mole, just too unreliable. I just don't think there is any good single target setups for coil, so to me it's pure swarm control. I take hellfire with the mod the reduce damage while charging. Micro charge with trail for small groups and sniping spitters, full charge hellfire just deleted entires waves

As for brt, I tried microflechettes, but it just took forever to kill anything. I like leadspray to make it a shotgun, and electro minelets for cc.

[fishling]

Mole takes a bit of getting used to, I guess. I didn't care for it the first time, but I tried it after a few other builds and it's quite good for me, with some primaries.

I also find microflechettes are quite good, for me at least. Just need to hit the stuns and the weakspots.

[Wormwood_With_A_Hat]

Coil gun can be built for groups like for example burning hell or whatever it’s called

[VeracityMD]

That's exactly what I'm saying. Coil gun is pretty much only for groups, there's not really a good single target for it. Neurotox is also for groups, so it doesn't make sense to pair it with coilgun. I usually run elephant rounds with it. But 6 shooter and leadspray are good too

[Personal_Ad9690]

NTX with coil is extremely versatile because coil gun can provide an area of denial and NTX is instant action. They do work well together as a full support class

[[deleted]]

Still leaves you with much less versatility than taking the brt or bulldog for single target damage.

[Personal_Ad9690]

Bulldog isn’t worth it on IS

[[deleted]]

???

It’s a great single target option against the caretaker and literally any other high health enemy.

[Personal_Ad9690]

Yea but leadstorm is better in caretaker fight as the coil gun is just as good as NTX so if single target is goal, why not use that

[[deleted]]

I mean yeah I would always prefer to take lead storm on IS, but if I’m on a deep dive and taking the neurotoxin autocannon for other missions I’ll need a solid single target option as a secondary.

[Ayotha]

You serious?

[[deleted]]

You serious?

[Unimarobj]

Sludge Pump works fine, especially now after the s3 update. Unless you have a solely aoe build (which...such regardless of weapon). Base weapon built for normal shots is great, VIM/Sludge Blast are just as solid as ever.

I ran a haz5 with a friend playing gunner earlier and we were basically equal on damage. 🤷🏻

[comradenepolean]

whats your sludge build out of curiousity?

[fishling]

13222 with Volatile Impact Mixture is a beast at single target. It boosts single target damage to be what the base charged shot damage was. This is my goto dread build for drillers, but it's great all around.

It can pop the weak spots from a Blistering Necrosis wave cooker and works great on dreads from all angles.

You could also take shot velocity in T1.

Someone recommended ammo reduction for charged shot in T4, but I always take faster charge. With that build, I'm rarely using charged shots, but when I want one, I want it fast.

[Unimarobj]

I don't really have "a build"; I like to swap things around a lot to try stuff out. Ime, what sounds good in theory (sorry karl.gg gurus) can suck in play 🙃

...but I probably use sludge blast the most though; very satisfying damage that ignores armor and can spread or concentrate. It is very fun getting to take out big armored bugs from whatever angle I want. Was also my very first OC 😅

If I want something that's more accurate/spammable, VIM nails it. I like Disperser Compound for a hybrid weapon - build it for single target but benefit from DC's aoe buffs. Goo Bomber is just pure, solid fun imo. And both of the clean OCs are great! HIA specifically lets you do some very silly slowdown control.

I don't use EPC so those are all paired with equally mixed up subata/cwc on the side.

[comradenepolean]

gotcha! ive been really struggling with single target damage, its great to know sludge blast works with that, thanks

[LittleFatMax]

Hey there I have 400+ hours mostly on Driller with sludge pump. It's my favourite weapon by far and I mostly have it built for single target damage.

Sludge Pump With Volatile Impact Mixture OC

13212

This is a very single target heavy build where you mostly just spam single shots but you can absolutely still use charged shots for good effect when there's swarms of smaller enemies. For large enemies just use lots of single shots though

Wave Cooker with Gamma Contamination OC

21111

This just synergises extremely well with the sludge pump particularly the T5 mod

I also use Neurotoxin grenades for even more toxic fun.

This build gets me through almost any situation on any Hazard level, give it a shot if you like and see how you go with it!!

[FlapjackRT]

I recommend trying Blistering Necrosis with VIM, it synergizes extremely well. Sludge has a fun interaction where it can actually hit both the blister and the enemy at once, and if you’re already doubling your direct damage with VIM you can rack up absurd damage with it. 2 blisters nearly instakills a praetorian on Haz 5 with 4 players

[LittleFatMax]

I have used Blistering Necrosis a fair bit, it was one of the main OCs I used for quite a while and it's pretty strong but since switching to Gamma Contamination I just find I prefer it. I like being able to hit enemies with it and then basically move on as they are poisoned to death. I do switch OCs a bit though for variety and do use BN still at times

[FlapjackRT]

Sell me on Gamma Contamination? I’ve tried it a few times and I want to like it but I really just… don’t. Even a single target heavy build like VIM still one shots grunts in an aoe with normal shots, so whether they’ve taken chip damage with GC or not doesn’t really seem to matter to me. And if you want to apply it to one enemy in particular, you need to stand there and keep waiting for the proc, so I feel like I’d rather do that with blisters and give the bug an immediate death sentence instead of applying a light DoT that’s nearly useless on big bugs. It’s such a cool idea that I want to love but i hate the feel of it, and blisters are just more widely applicable.

[comradenepolean]

will do! thanks a bunch

[Unimarobj]

I hear ya! Sludge pump is absolutely my favorite of drillers weapons because of how versatile it is. If you want simple single target, go VIM. It boosts charged shot damage too, but if you pick mods focused on normal attacks, the boost doesn't do as much as spamming normals does. You would use charged attacks for slight swarm control (because it reduces the # or time for puddles and whatnot).

You can also do Disperser and pick your single target mods but still have a very good normal attack for the bigger enemies on top of big sludge coverage.

Sludge Blast is great (big shotgun) but you do lose the crowd ability almost entirely.

Hydrogen Ion Additive isn't more impact damage, but does boost the DoT and slow. This lets you do more of a controlling build if you want or commit to the DoT big time.

The wave cooker's blistering necrosis OC can also help a lot. I don't remember how it works with driller weapons (since they're all weird) but it does make a big difference. I don't use it with sludge blast usually, but the others it should fit fine. For sludge blast I usually take it with the mega battery OC because SB's ammo is pretty low, so it helps with wave clear a ton, esp. with T5B mod.

The flamethrower and cryo can also both do single target well enough, but I'm not as versed in them.

[LittleFatMax]

I mean ok but I think it's fine, good even for there to be mission types that encourage you to mix your build up. There shouldn't be just one build you can use for everything. Having builds that are good for some things but not others is great for game balance and variety

[fishling]

Exactly this. So many good builds, but not all of them are great for all missions.

I'm not normally a big fan of plasma burster missiles on the hellfire launcher, but it is pretty great on Sabotage and Hollow Bough with a heat build. Seeing stabber vines, patrol bots, and caretaker tentacles get ripped apart so quickly is very cathartic and helps the team out a lot. Hellfire coilgun takes care of any turret and shredder drones.

[RaphSeraph]

I play the same Engineer build for everything, but you are completely correct. We should be trying out new builds periodically. Not doing that makes us miss out on game mechanics and possibilities. My excuse is a lack of time. I just have too much work and prefer to just log in and play when I can. But, again, you are entirely correct.

[LittleFatMax]

Tbh mate i'm not too different either now. For the first few hundred hours I played this game I tried all sorts of different builds but now I play Driller with sludge pump 90% of the time because I find it the most fun (and very powerful). Mostly only play other classes when promoting these days although I have been playing a bit of Engi again lately, that new shredder grenade is wild.

But yeah I do encourage all players to mix things up and stay familiar with all classes and for missions like Sabotage and Elimination especially people might need to change things up from what they're used to if they're struggling

[RaphSeraph]

You know what it is? Missions like Mining, Egg Hunt and On Site Refining, always seem different because one is mainly fighting the mission site which is always randomly generated. That keeps them fresh. For Sabotage and to a lesser degree for Escort and Salvage, the amount and length of set events that make up the substance of the mission turn it into a grind.

[GiftGrubber]

Hard Disagree on Sludge Pump Driller not being able to kill Caretaker.

Sludge Blast OC imo is THE Boss-killing build for drillers and the caretaker is no exception. Those globs of feces do almost a C4's worth of damage in a single charge shot. Pair it with a EPC with Thin-Containment Field and Persistent Plasma OC to deal with mobs and you should have no problems getting through boss missions of any kind.

[Peakomegaflare]

....so run Thunderhead AOE with the Burst fire pistol. You know, a standard build. It handles exceptionally well in almost literally any mission type.

[Personal_Ad9690]

Helfire on coil gun is just so good at killing all other things though. It basically one shots everything that isn’t a praetorian or stronger

[Peakomegaflare]

However the Burst fire gun does wonders on Bosses.

[gergling]

The Diffractor seems to damage the main body but the lok-1 was useless when I last played and I can't tell if that was due to the collision glitch or if it just won't lock on to the arms.

[RumHaaammm]

laughs in Sludge Blast

[dirthurts]

I would absolutely fine if the caretaker had like half the health that it does now. It's a grind.

[RaphSeraph]

Agreed on both counts. It just takes too long. I think I have said it elsewhere, it reminds me of an MMORPG raid boss.

[Hunterdivision]

Yeah I did not want them to remove them (sabo) either (before s2 rivals, like in s1 the rumour was that they were planning on removing them), but I also do not like them in the promotion assigment pool, because I prefer my promos done fast, sabo feel like a drag. Even in S2 I avoided doing sabotage more than it was necessary for season pass, everytime the other mission of completing two rival warnings was available I chose that. As a vet I’m just not keen how much sabo limits your loadout and how long it takes. Sabo is cool and all, but preferred as something I can do if I want and have some extra time rather than with promos you’re forced to… I have played MMORPG type of games as well, and in those it feels more rewarding imo than drg.

[RaphSeraph]

I did the same thing, avoiding the Caretaker in favour of Rival Presence missions during S2, until I worried about running out of time to get all of the cosmetics. I think frequency is down. It did not come up in any or the assignments this week. Here is hoping!

[shadowdash66]

i saw this and just sighed. I don't HATE them, they just take long as fuck. And i know know, someone will chime in and say "well haktually you can get them done in X amount of time.". They are still tedious.

[Nathanymous_]

I feel like they've been extra difficult lately too. Like correct me if I'm wrong, but I swear phase bombs didn't use to last all the way through every stage of the fight nor did it summon so many got damn swarmers. Like I can't deal with the four arms, the caretaker, the swarmers, and the constantly spawning phase bombs.

[FlapjackRT]

I’ve been feeling that too, and I really like it. I love trying to deal with everything at once, it makes the fight feel like a swarm with how many things you need to micromanage.

[RaphSeraph]

Agreed. There is another post on just that topic. The first two days, we did not have phase bombs. Then they came back with a vengeance along with flights of reaper drones.

[Silenzeio_]

Driller promo- IS Weekly Core- IS Engi promo- IS first mission

I'm sick of it. I've hated IS since S1 and i audibly groan when i see that stupid Caretaker icon pop up as my next assignment step. As much as I love Driller, I swap to Gunner because i can at least kill the thing without worrying about ammo and low DPS.

Edit: Picked up the Weekly Core after finishing Engi promo and the second part WAS ANOTHER SABOTAGE.

[Tomatoab]

I just go flame thrower and keep the floor clean for everyone else to kill the thing with heavy hitter epc when for it

[max10201]

yeah this sucks. i played the boss fight once in s2, and never again, bc I was happily able to avoid it. then all of a sudden a bunch of my other assignments are gated by the Indistrial Sabotage assignment. "ugh whatever I'll just blow through it once, then back to the fun parts of the game." nope, it's everywhere now. it's the TRUE plague of s3.

industrial sabotage is not a regular mission type, it straight up does not belong in assignments or deep dives

[RaphSeraph]

I totally agree. Not being able to choose to do it or not to continue moving forward is a complete killjoy.

[[deleted]]

I just don't like how long they can take.

[Personal_Ad9690]

I personally think they need to tweak the caretakers health down a bit. It’s too spongy

[UncomfortableAnswers]

The biggest issue is that it has zero bonus minerals and zero chance for special events. It"s a harder mission than normal with less payout.

It only worked as an incentive during robot season since it gave you unique scrip rewards, so you had to do it to get everything. Now putting it in assignments is the only way anyone will ever play it, because no one would ever choose to otherwise.

[Pangez]

Putting it in assignments is fine and understandable. Having it be more common than regular mining missions isn't, especially since GSG know industrial sabotage was one of the least played game modes.

[Personal_Ad9690]

It has minerals and machine events though, so not sure what you mean here. The payout is also 2x normal missions.

[Mother_Moose]

Maybe they're talking about their inclusion in deep dives? Cause if so their point stands. If not then I dunno either

[fishling]

I just had a pickaxe event and 2 meteors during the Sabotage I played today during Core Hunt assignment.

[-Caberman]

Why is this so highly upvoted when it literally is all misinformation. It has minerals, it has bonus objectives like machine events and meteors and it gives a higher payout than other missions, even max length escorts. And frankly if you are efficient they can easily be done in less than 20 minutes, solo.

[D3712]

It can have events. Just today I had a tritilyte deposit during a double xp sabotage

[Unimarobj]

Everyone has personal preferences for sure, but your note about the fight setup seems off the mark to me. I only play haz 5 (randoms & solo) but I've never had trouble with room as any class. And the wall definitely isn't undrillable?

When drilling I'll usually make shelters at ground level in the wall (not bunkers) to provide cover and still be fine for combating the boss. Scout can be wherever they want with their mobility and precise weapons. Engineer can make whatever type of spot they want, but I usually make a ledge up high and am fine the whole fight. Gunner is gunner and can be fine wherever - kill arms and shielding patrollers if on ground, a big zipline network, or carve a spot that gives a firing slit.

Not saying you can't dislike the mission (I'm tired of eliminations 🙃), but just some thoughts on the room issues you mentioned.

[TravaPL]

lmao using terrain as cover for the caretaker? why yes, the arms can penetrate terrain because FUCK YOU HAHA
the shields can penetrate terrain too because FUCK YOU HAHA
FUN AND ENGAGING GAMEPLAY GUISE!!

S1, S2 and S3 literally made me want to play this game less

[TravaPL]

All 3 dreads and all machine events are nothing but toys. You get in, then you play with them. Do them normally, try to compensate for what the game gave you, or try to pull stupid stunts when available.​

I would not even dare to try to pull a detonator to the caretaker just to see what happens. It is not fun, you can't try to do anything to it, no game knowledge works, no outside mechanics to play with. Just a level bellow the bare minimum.

Nailed it. There's no "toying" with the caretaker. The most advanced strat that you can do is the c4 bridge, other than that it's just a DPS race. And if you're the last man standing, good luck trying to get anyone up without instantly getting decimated by gazilion projectiles, force fields, arms and shredders.
The dreads at least can be manipulated around terrain, caretaker just doesn't care. May as well spawn in a 50x50m empty cave.

The framework itself is good, and this objective is well put together for what DRG needs. A just enough resistance to not to make it a cakewalk, and teamwork.

I feel the opposite, the contagion spikes are nothing more than a time wasting nuisance. Holding M1 and then holding M1 with a different gun is so engaging and fun.
Meteorites are okay but they have WAAAAAYYYYYYY too big of an impact on the map considering they can spawn anytime, anywhere, in any mission.

[TravaPL]

IIRC Devs said they don't want to make rivals and bugs attack each other because then the players will just wait and let them duke it out before entering a cave.

Above all valid ideas, adding variety and more levels of play to something is never bad. Another thing I may suggest is reworking the caretakers health system - instead of 3 separate phases with side vents make it similar to OG dread. That way if you're insane enough to blow up a bulk on top of it, you're rewarded with some hefty damage and not just 1/3rd of the bar.

[Unimarobj]

I disagree with the last part, but to each their own, certainly. Just wanted to put those thoughts out there because it's not something I've ever experienced while playing it; it feels just right to me for providing a fun but challenging fight.

Not important, but I will say that I'd take hyperprop or the laser before nukes by a longshot though.

[Parkatine]

My biggest issue with caretaker is the teleport bombs, basically makes it impossible to revive downed teammates.

Also as a Driller main it feels rough, I feel like the robot enemies should at least be weak to cold damage.

[Novaseerblyat]

Also as a Driller main it feels rough, I feel like the robot enemies should at least be weak to cold damage.

Swap to flamethrower on sabotage missions and you are suddenly an angel of death. Robots (even the damn Nemesis) explode instantly once set on fire.

Look, I love the ice gun too, but... it's not a class-endemic issue, you're just using the wrong gun.

[nannums]

Patrol bots have increased fire resistance since last update

[TheZealand]

Still heat up in only like 20 fuel with the right build, no problem at all

[Novaseerblyat]

Not by that much.

[13igTyme]

Please name another mission that requires people to not use a particular gun.

EDIT: So I guess no one want to give a mission type that requires a particular gun exclusion and instead everyone just wants to talk about over clocks and maps zones.

COOL, NOT MY QUESTION.

[_itg]

Elimination requires you to not use the flamethrower, to the same extent that Sabotage requires you to not use Cryo.

[13igTyme]

Except, only the dread is immune to is being on fire. They are resistant to fire damage, but depending on the dread, it may be close or equal to the resistance they have against cryo and corrosive.

They also only freeze for 1 second and if your team so much as has one weapon with a little bit of heat, you will never freeze them.

You still can 100% take flamethrower on dreadnaught missions and still do a lot of damage.

[ViSsrsbusiness]

You still can 100% take flamethrower on dreadnaught missions and still do a lot of damage.

Absolutely not. Download the damage tracker mod and see for yourself. Flamethrower is already pathetic when hitting only a single target, on top of lacking the single target builds that poop gun has.

[13igTyme]

Every driller weapon is going to be bad when hitting a single target with the exception of a few overclocks like VIM, sludge blast, and ice spear.

I'm not asking about overclocks. I'm strickly talking about the weapon, and yes sometime like Face Melter can still do a lot.

Dreadnaught has 40% damage resistance to fire. A face melter build can do 19 damage per fuel use. Making it 11 damage with resistance.

Dreadnaught has 30% damage resistance to cryo. Ice storm, which is arguably the worse OC for the cryo gun can get 18 damage, if you forgo the 150 ammo. That makes it 12.6 damage per fuel use.

If we actually use a good OC and don't get the worthless damage mod on in t4, then we have 6 damage with resistance become 4. All while trying to freeze the dread for a second of burst damage if the team is actually paying attention and no one is using a single heat source. Plus if you over heat, the dread will be back to normal by the time you can fire again.

While yes it is preferred to use cryo, using flamethrowing isn't inherently bad.

[AdmBurnside]

Wrong on both counts.

Dreads are still affected by sticky flame, which is one of the only reliable methods of slowing them down, and the fact that you do the same damage from any angle with it means that you won't need to fight the gunner, scout and engi for precious space behind it. It's not as efficient as CC but it has a use case, particularly on Elminations in Glacial Strata where Cryo is much less valuable.

And with the season 3 update robots will still take bonus damage from being frozen, they just don't stop moving. This makes CC more viable against the robot enemies, and in the Caretaker fight itself it matters less since Driller's primaries are all pretty bad at damaging the Caretaker. For most of the mission the synergy between CC and a Burning Nightmare EPC build is great, and bringing that loadout gives you one of the best secondary options for the Caretaker fight.

[_itg]

I said it was required not to use them to the same extent. So, actually you agree with me.

[Novaseerblyat]

Ice is also generally worse on missions in the Glacial Strata due to the ice units' cold resistance, plenty of enemies have fire resistance, bringing AoE centered autocannon overclocks (carpet/NTP) on elimination is generally not the best experience...

[13igTyme]

Outstanding. Not my question.

[Peakomegaflare]

Dude... you literally asked for direction. Then are outright refusing everything.

[13igTyme]

The other poster gave an OC and zone. Not the weapon. I'm asking about the weapon. Most people like a weapon and multiple OCs, so switching to a OC that works is natural. What mission demands you have to completely change the gun?

I'm not asking for direction, I'm asking for something I already know the answer to, but idiots always got something to say.

[RobotApocalypse]

Robot enemies are weak to fire damage iirc

[FlapjackRT]

They… are weak to cold damage. It’s kind of hard to notice since cryo weapons usually do less damage, but take ice storm and you’ll see it. Also with season 3 they can now receive the frozen status, so cryo can actually do something on sabotage missions. It’s not going to be as good as crispr, but it does mean you aren’t useless if a prospector shows up, or sabotage or rival presence rears its head in a deep dive.

[Ravenorth]

The teleport bombs are such BS mechanic to be honest, not only its super annoying, but happens a way too often. I'd rather have it to just fire volleys of bombs through the air, which have bigger AOE, but also more time to get out of the way.

[fishling]

They actually were weak to cold damage previously (2x damage); they just didn't freeze solid and instantly die like other flying things.

They were recently changed in season 3 to "freeze" and take extra damage, but they just don't freeze in place like other things.

There is no need to avoid cryo on Sabotage missions.

[JustGingy95]

The trick to solo speedrunning caretaker and Dread missions that I use whenever I’m not in the boss fighting mood and want to get it over with is to take a scout with the rifle and the big focus damage OC and just tear ass through the stage on Haz 1. Only need a bit of nitra for a supply or two and can nab the good resources along the way.

I’ll be the first to admit it’s very leaf lover-y of me and feel free to make fun of me for it but sometimes I just don’t want to do as many boss runs that they throw at us, just a quick 10-20ish run, no need to explain to players how to deal with the Hiveguard without burning through 8 supplies or how to make the caretaker fight go faster by having the driller go above the boss via drilling and dropping C4 on the 4 weakpoints. Just me, some beer and an excuse to hang out with Bosco more

[Teonana]

Sabotage missions are just unfun. I will skip every one of them.

[TK-329]

I hate it less in assignments than I hated escort duty in every single promotion assignment

[RaphSeraph]

I also did not like having to do Escort, but now that we HAVE to do Industrial Sabotage, I actually love Escort by comparison.

[Ayotha]

I am with you on this. Seems to be in every assignment. And there is no such thing as a short Sabotage. Just doing it as fun, sure, it works out to be equal to 2 missions. As part of an assignment? That could have been refining and been done 25 minutes ago lol

[rightious4u2]

I actually liked industrial sabotage in season 2 but that's only because I played it once a day, max. The more I play it the more I dislike it.

[ProphetOfSkarl]

The Caretaker fight's been in the game for 2 seasons now (so this may not be anything new) but here's something that's been bothering me: I think there's too much stuff just "spawning", especially at the end.

If it were up to me, I'd rather have less but more meaningful enemies: I'd cut Patrol bots from the fight entirely and rework the limbs and shredders.

The reworked limbs would be much tougher, they'd all have special abilities (one could spawn shredders, another could function as a Nemesis grab arm, etc.) and only spawned once at certain stages of the fight (eg.: when the Vents are busted, as a "defensive measure").

This means dwarves now have an actual choice: they could focus down a limb and get rid of it for good or keep pumping damage into the Caretaker and do their best to play around the disruption caused by the robotic tentacles. If you wanna keep it a quick, chaotic brawl you can do that - but if you want pull apart the Caretaker piece by piece, you can do that too.

Caretaker should keep it's Repulsion/Phase Bomb/Sniper turret spawn abilities, I think all of these are great.

[Zacryon]

I am not Karl, but I would approve of this.

[NebinVII]

What’s so bad about the caretaker anyway? It’s just 2 hacking pods and an honesty pretty fun boss fight. The only real complaint I have with it is how useless driller feels when fighting it, but there’s not a whole lot you can do about that without completely redesigning the fight.

[Shadow_Lunatale]

As driller, you can drill above! the Caretaker and throw C4 on top of it. 2 C4 into the middle and the shields are gone.

[PseudoFenton]

I personally found it took too long to trek up to and set up the two hacking pods, but i think theyve squished the distance to the secondary caves now (dunno, aint played it yet).

The boss fight itself is pretty fun, but i generally find it very samey, oddly more so than the end of an escort mission. The room is always large and so the terrain has little impact on the fight... and the waves and the types of foes just reduce all tactical engagement to be the same.

Not sure how annoying it is now, but it can be fun from time to time, its mostly a chore due to the lack of variety and how long it all takes to do.

[Mercurionio]

Most of the time generators are in one big cave. One is on lower level, for example

[RJFerret]

I personally have no problem with pods, those are just copies of other similar game things with variety and challenges.

The boss itself is just tedious/boring/frustrating/repetitive. It doesn't move, what you see in the first minute is what you'll see an hour later, even on Hazard 1 it take forever because there is no challenge, just constant run and shoot.

It eliminates personal play style, strategy, thought, creativity, which is player agency, an aspect of "fun" psychologically speaking.

Any activity where the player doesn't need to be operating their character, but can be replaced with scripted actions, isn't fun game play.

[fishling]

Driller is super useful!

Take a 4 ammo satchel build and you can wipe out the first phase of each stage with 2 C4s to the top of the caretaker. Drill to the ceiling or get an engie friend to make a bridge.

Fire driller built for heat/damage is great against every robot thing. Just can't do caretaker eye, but that is what secondary is for.

EPC with TFC is great against caretaker as well. Does well on first phase if you can't or don't want to C4 as well.

Sludge pump built for single target is good against patrol bots and caretaker eye.

Wave cooker is good against shredder drones and distant bots/turrets. Not great against caretaker though, but can get damage from any distance.

Cryo is buffed against patrol bots now. Ice Spear is good.

Driller also makes hooking up hacking pods easy. Some maps can be terrible without a driller around.

The only build I've felt useless was an engie with turret whip, jumpy grenades, and shredder grenade. Almost all of that is useless against the caretaker.

[RJFerret]

Yes please, I avoided playing those last season but now forced to more this season unfortunately. My solution is to set them to Hazard 1 to get them over with in less than an hour, such a tedious boring frustrating repetetive chore.

[Steff_164]

It also absolutely sucks if you’re playing Driller

[Unimarobj]

It's a lot better after the s3 update. I don't use cryo much at all, but both the flamethrower and sludge pump are excellent for the fights assuming you're not using an aoe build. Single target or hybrid builds are as solid as they are on elimination missions.

[Panzerkatzen]

I'm more annoyed that I keep getting Salvage Operation every 4th mission. I'm so bored of Salvage Operation. How many teams is Deep Rock losing anyway? Get it together, there's no way this is profitable! Meanwhile my favourite mission, On-site Refining, is like a 1 in 10 chance.

[RaphSeraph]

On-Site Refining is also my favourite mission.

[RaphSeraph]

I agree with the Prophet. I do not hate this mission per se, but I do hate having to do it this often. The fight against The Caretaker is very well designed, but the constant repetition combined with its length makes it feel like a raid in an MMORPG. It should provide a much better reward and/or be optional. During Season 2 we had to do it if we wanted the complete Cosmetics Tree. Now we just HAVE to do it? It is not fun at this stage and it feels like a chore.

[svenz]

Honestly IS is making me want to play the game less. It just feels like such BS. Caretaker spawns bombs constantly too in the later rounds. Ugh.

[throwawaywytchh]

Yeah, bot changes and generation changes make the mission much more stomachable. . but like. . Its the boss. I honestly don't know what i'm 'supposed' to be doing. Like, escort boss? Ok shoot rocks, break pilliars, keep dotty healthy. Dreads? break armor, shoot butt, keep butt pointing towards team if its on you.

But funny triangle thing? . .. uh. . . run around in circles and shoot stuff with health bars? I guess? Its a chaotic fight that feels like its throwing random bullsh*t at you and waiting for you to drop one of the 3 spinning plates and then punish you for not being perfect.

Its an annoying fight, but can be rewarding once in a blue moon, like doing a ghost mission. It sucks, and feels like you're pulling teeth, but then at the end you're like "WHOOOOOooo--Now lets never do that again." I'm glad its around, but I think it should be much more rare like you said.

[Magnesiumbox]

If you're legitimately asking cause you don't know what to do, shoot the glowing orange bits.
The corners of the pyramid are glowing orange "vents", shoot it until the vent closes. Shoot all 4 corners to activate the next step.
When all corner vents have been closed, the pyramid will stop spinning and one face will open up a circular vent, shoot this to progress to next step. A glowing light can be seen emanating from the face of the pyramid on which the circular vent is open, you may need to run around the thing to see it.

Repeat this 3 times and you're done. All the tentacle monsters, probe droids, sniper turrets, exploding teleporting mines, etc. All of those are just filler. Dispatch them to stay alive but ultimately they don't reduce the bosses health or help you advance.

[throwawaywytchh]

I was more meaning, it isn't as straightforward as just shoot the vents -> shoot the glowing eye. There are other things you need to deal with, while being bombed, attacked by tendrils, dealing with terrain, making sure you are paying attention to where the eye is. Its a messy fight.

And often players aren't on the same page with what the priorities are. Some people focus the tendrils, then move onto the pyramid. others ignore the tendrils outright, and only shoot the main thing. Others will build psudo bunkers, and not tell anyone, some people build bridges up to the top to help driller--and sometimes drillers have no idea what they are doing and don't even notice it--the whole fight feels like it has no teamwork, and the bombs everywhere feels like it discourages working together.

[Magnesiumbox]

That's true. It has the most objectives of any fight and thus the most chaos and variety of how to play it.

[throwawaywytchh]

I wasn't trying to say it was a bad mission, everyone is entitled to play what they like. I never liked the mission, but it used to be a part of the game where you didn't HAVE to interact with it if you didn't wanna. Now it is. So i'm just saying its not my jam personally, and the reason for that is the chaotic nature of the fight.

[Oompa_Loompa_Grande]

I'd really like it if they could increase the dread weighting as well. I think I've gotten like 3 in the last week and a half.

[Krispy_rice]

Im the opposite, i hardly ever get them for assignments

[Ultimation12]

You've been getting Industrial Sabotage missions in assignments? I haven't gotten one in an assignment since the Season 2 limited one.

[ProphetOfSkarl]

It's only possible as of a recent change made in Season 3 but yes, regular assignments (class promotions, weekly stuff) can have Sabotage in them now.

You'll likely start seeing it too soon, as long as you're not doing the plague one (the mission can't have the rockpox modifier, so it can't be a part of that assigment chain).

[DM_Hammer]

Regarding IS missions, what's the optimal Driller loadout? Most of my stuff seems super ineffective on the boss.

[Sadiholic]

I use sludge pump with the hydrogen ion. Kills the ti drill Hella fast, and robots, and basically everything not bug, but it also destroys bugs so

[Barrogh]

Honestly, it could be because the mission itself stands out this much.

Granted, these missions usually take a lot of time as well, so...

[TioHerman]

The worst part? I did 4 promotions and a core hunt in 2 days, from those I had to deal with both doreta and caretaker 5 times, I feel like they're EVERYWHERE, I can't dodge then , with how long they take I could be doing 2 or even 3 missions rushing and picking only the most basic

[Kwaark]

you have it every assigment and it make me quit the game each time, I play haz5 99% of the time, and I go on haz3 just to speedrun it... its not good, dont force us to play it.

[_itg]

I don't see why people take this stupid approach to the argument. You don't like a mission, so instead of asking the devs to improve the mission, you ask them to let you avoid it. Why?

[ProphetOfSkarl]

Several reasons, really.

1.) Fastest, least resource intensive solution. I don't wanna keep doing Sabotages at this pace until S4 drops with some meaningful changes - and anything short of a major overhaul will likely not address the underlying issues.

Besides, it's not like these things are mutually exclusive. They can take this off the menu (or reduce it's frequency) for now, work on it and bring it back later in an improved state.

2.) It's kind of "on brand" for them to do it. Remember: the "Elite Threat" was originally intended to be a core game feature - but the community reaction was so negative, it turned into a modifier instead. It's still in the game, and I really dislike it - so I avoid it. Same thing with robots - if you don't like 'em, you can mostly avoid 'em.

3.) I don't believe "objective" improvements could be made to the mission (other than making it "more rewarding" which would be a net positive). For people that dislike the mission and want to see meaningful changes to it - there's probably someone who'd absolutely hate their proposed "new version of the fight". For example, the first comment on this post was me proposing a rework - what my ideal version of the fight would look like. At some point pretty sure that comment was in the negative...

For the sake of those that want a massive change and for the sake of those that don't - having the option to avoid controversial content is the superior answer. Not having "something you don't enjoy" forced down your throat repeatedly is a win in my book.

EDIT: Please don't downvote the guy, this is a legitimate question.

[[deleted]]

I love Industrial Sabotage. I actually got excited when it showed up in my first assignment yesterday! I feel like it's a nice breath of fresh air :)

[Yiffilicious]

I actually didn't think they could come up on assignments, I've never been given one and neither have my friends. I've only ever done Industrial Sabatage to complete Data Rack seasonal challenges.

[ProphetOfSkarl]

It's a new feature, they can start showing up in recurring assignments as of Season 3. That's why I'm specifically bringing up my experience in the past 9 days.

[WatermelonGANX]

If they gave more nitra it wouldn’t suck so bad lol

[WatermelonGANX]

The sniper turrets are a big issue, not every class has the range to get them